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it's been a while :/ 03:43:16 that looks like an infinite loop to me 03:44:03 adu: why? 03:44:51 RebelBunny: what languages do you know? 03:45:03 adu: c,python 03:45:33 (define (p) (p)) defines p to be a procedure of no arguments that makes a call to p. 03:45:41 what you wrote is like "def p(): return p()" in Python 03:46:24 only, without the stack overflow 03:46:29 heh 03:47:34 rins [~aaron@c-66-31-29-144.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:58:10 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-22-211.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:07:32 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:07:41 RebelBunny: What adu and ijp said. 04:10:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-202.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:22:53 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:25:06 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:26:15 RebelBunny: but otherwise you're correct, (define (p) (p)) assigns p then prints p. 04:27:40 tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:29:24 -!- drumond19 [~drumond19@177.133.176.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:29 pjb: I thought the "define" form returns an unspecified value. That means that on "most" Scheme implementations, it won't be printing p. 04:31:06 cky: that's correct. It does that on bigloo. 04:32:00 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 04:32:21 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:55 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:17 -!- drrckln [~drrckln@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 04:53:06 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:59:02 foof: Any attempt to formalize that optinal laziness is a major mistake. The proper thing that should have been done ages ago is to admit that it defines a very different language and drop it. 05:03:27 yes 05:12:16 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:30:59 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 05:39:26 xwl_ [user@nat/nokia/x-dwcqdzopkbyayhlf] has joined #scheme 05:47:33 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:48:04 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 05:49:32 -!- bfgun is now known as bfig 05:50:18 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 05:50:59 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 05:54:22 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 06:04:43 phao [phao@177.77.179.134] has joined #scheme 06:09:23 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #scheme 06:11:14 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.75.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:35 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:25:55 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-31.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:28:38 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-163-136.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:30:17 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:31 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-151.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:40:27 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 06:42:47 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-151.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:43:46 __rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.48.86] has joined #scheme 06:47:07 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-31.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:51:19 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-31.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:56:01 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-151.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:01:02 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:09:24 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:21:28 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:26:51 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:33:51 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #scheme 07:36:27 eli: No one is or has proposed that delay is optionally lazy - the standard just has a footnote that a smart compiler might make optimizations when there is no operational difference. 07:42:24 foof: I'm talking about the two "footnotes" that say: It may be the case that there is no means by which a promise can be operationally distinguished from its forced value. 07:42:27 and: Some implementations may implement "implicit forcing," 07:42:47 These are not at all footnotes, they're huge changes to the language and should be dropped. 07:43:15 (That is, these two footnotes and the half-assed attempt at a definition for when such implicit forcing should happen.) 07:45:43 I agree in principle. My only real concern is which existing implementations perform any or all of these optimizations. 07:46:26 Implicit forcing is easy to drop - the program in question would already be non-portable, and the extension only applies to a specific error case. 07:46:49 But I think in many implementations promises are non-disjoint types. 07:50:05 chaotic_good [~g@pool-173-60-202-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:50:43 so with map I can have a function launched agaisnt a huge list of arguments 07:50:50 and result is big list of results? 07:50:53 c00l 07:51:09 seems a lil cleaner than a loop 07:51:16 is it just a loop in disguide 07:53:32 foof: I don't know what you mean by optimization -- if it's something like a syntactic (delay 9) evaluating to 9, then that's a bug, not an optimization. 07:54:44 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:55:13 oow engines in tspl 4th look interesting, but are the stuck on 1 cpu? 07:58:03 mvuets [~mvuets@95.154.250.228] has joined #scheme 07:58:25 -!- eni is now known as albacker 07:58:26 -!- tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:58:47 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:58:47 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 08:03:53 multi tasking! 08:04:08 are engines the answer to using 16 cpu box? 08:05:38 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:49 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 08:12:37 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-89-243-13-157.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:14:27 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 08:15:42 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #scheme 08:19:03 ASau [~user@95-27-162-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:22:49 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:24:09 eli: Given that promises are non-disjoint and force is allowed to act as an identity for non-promises, then it is just an optimization. You're taking issue with those first two premises, and I'm not really disagreeing, just not sure if it's practical. 08:24:10 kuribas [~user@94.227.36.245] has joined #scheme 08:25:10 (practical to drop the extension in R7RS) 08:26:30 I am trying to crosscompile chibi-scheme for arm, but when I run it on my device I get segfault. 08:27:16 It also segfaults when I do "ldd ../lib/chibi/chibi/ast.so" 08:27:20 (on the device) 08:37:50 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-162-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:05 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:43:20 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:49:11 Hm, apparently ldd doesn't work with dynamic libraries on the device... 08:58:51 wingo [~wingo@55.pool85-50-237.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 09:01:29 It works with chibi-scheme 0.4 09:02:00 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02:14 -!- phao [phao@177.77.179.134] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 09:06:28 you can get rid of shared libs by making clibs.c (on the host even), then compiling statically 09:07:16 make -B chibi-scheme-static SEXP_USE_DL=0 CPPFLAGS=-DSEXP_USE_STATIC_LIBS 09:08:15 beyond that, if you can give me an idea of where it's segfaulting I can help, but otherwise it will have to wait until I have time to setup an arm vm for testing 09:13:43 foof: Are you the author if chibi? 09:15:33 The version I use now (0.4) use libchibi-scheme.so as a shared library, but it doesn't load modules dynamically, so that might have something to do with it. 09:16:29 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 09:16:39 kuribas: yes 09:17:30 There's been no change in when modules are loaded dynamically - running ./chibi-scheme should just depend on libchibi-scheme.so. 09:18:29 foof: Well, I noticed there are dynamic modules in /usr/local/lib on 0.5, but not on 0.4. 09:18:47 /usr/local/lib/chibi/ I mean 09:19:23 oh, that was a cleanup - pre 0.5 they were put in /usr/share/lib/chibi along with the .scm modules 09:20:08 oh, right. 09:20:39 No I am running 0.4 with shared libraries, and it works fine. 09:20:47 s/no/now/ 09:25:11 0.5 should also work 09:25:35 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 09:25:47 -!- __rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.48.86] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:25:51 I'll see if I can enable coredumps... 09:29:06 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-d9bfd6b1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:29:16 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d067d25.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 09:29:57 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-151.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:33:03 masm [~masm@bl17-197-41.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:33:04 backtrace: http://pastebin.com/XmM8LkCb 09:34:31 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-22.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:47:47 -!- chaotic_good [~g@pool-173-60-202-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:50 palach [~palach@93.175.8.83] has joined #scheme 09:56:23 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:37 woonie [~woonie@124.109.163.3] has joined #scheme 10:11:29 tomobrien [~tomobrien@host-92-2-68-225.as43234.net] has joined #scheme 10:28:19 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-22.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:33:02 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-234-146.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:37:30 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-234-146.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:38:39 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvzhzllsweitttmm] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:41:10 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-45-14.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 10:42:27 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-22.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:48:11 I noticed it uses about 2.5M of memory. How does that compare to other scheme systems? 10:50:28 -!- tomobrien [~tomobrien@host-92-2-68-225.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 10:58:56 jeapostrophe [~jay@rrcs-67-52-254-154.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:58:57 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@rrcs-67-52-254-154.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:58:57 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 11:04:25 tomobrien [~tomobrien@host-92-2-68-225.as43234.net] has joined #scheme 11:20:01 -!- kuribas [~user@94.227.36.245] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:23:24 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 11:46:24 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 11:46:51 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:50:51 lcc` [~user@75-173-82-129.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 11:51:02 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:57:41 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:58:38 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-22.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:08 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:56 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-22.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:00:42 chu__ [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 12:01:26 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 12:01:35 -!- chu__ is now known as chu 12:01:38 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-192-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02:09 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 12:03:08 -!- peeeep [~potato@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:03:16 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:03:23 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:03:42 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-192-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 12:04:39 efftee [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #scheme 12:04:39 -!- efftee is now known as ft 12:17:30 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:22:21 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 12:23:51 __rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.145.148] has joined #scheme 12:25:47 <__rahul__> is there a generalised log function in scheme (wherein an arbitrary base could be specified)? 12:26:30 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:31:39 __rahul__: (define (glog x base) (/ (log x) (log base))) 12:33:33 <__rahul__> pjb: thanks. i wonder if there is a good reason why it's not there in the standard libraries 12:34:04 I've not looked, but it's probably in one of the SRFIs. Have you checked? 12:34:48 <__rahul__> i have looked but could not find it. 12:36:06 Perhaps it's a mere overlook? 12:36:22 I tend to use log base 2 more often than log base e, but I'm a programmer 12:36:42 <__rahul__> probably is. 12:36:50 lolcow [~lolcow@196-210-165-159.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:37:27 <__rahul__> which is to say you define it when you need it? 12:37:55 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-22.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:39:25 jeapostrophe [~jay@rrcs-67-52-254-154.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:39:25 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@rrcs-67-52-254-154.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:39:25 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 12:41:25 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 12:50:32 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:50:53 jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:50:58 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:51:26 -!- lolcow [~lolcow@196-210-165-159.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:51:48 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:53:02 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-22.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:54:07 <__rahul__> pjb: i did find this http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-77/mail-archive/msg00434.html 12:54:47 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.75.149] has joined #scheme 12:56:13 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 12:57:22 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-22.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:58:32 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-22-211.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:58:33 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:58:33 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-197.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:01:15 -!- lcc` 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#scheme 15:38:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.4.101] has quit [Changing host] 15:38:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 15:40:58 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:41:11 kuribas [~user@94.227.36.245] has joined #scheme 15:42:02 I have compared the memory footprint of some scheme implementations. 15:43:03 Chibi-scheme has a very small binary, but it uses about 2M of data internally. Chicken-scheme en gambit have a larger dynamic library, but they seem to use only 0.5M of data. 15:43:35 Does that mean that when running several programs, it is better to use chicken or gambit, since the dynamic library will be shared? 15:46:37 that could be, although there are more ways to run "several programs" than unix processes 15:47:10 also you have to be sure about what you are measuring... 15:47:16 (and that it matters :) 15:48:32 I am looking for a functional language to compile to the zipit, which is an arm device with 32M of memory. 15:49:36 I wanted to write a windowmanager and a app-launcher. 15:49:51 sounds like fun :) 15:49:53 (using EFL) 15:49:55 yes 15:50:11 It doesn't have a mouse, just a keyboard. 15:50:38 The more programs use the same shared library the better. 15:50:55 antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 15:51:00 If you can rewrite all the userland in scheme, then you can have a big shared library. 15:51:15 tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 15:52:28 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d067d25.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:52:38 TheRealPygo [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f76981d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 15:52:41 True. I can use X-windows, EFL, chicken, as a base, and make the rest of the system on top of that. 15:54:27 Though I am not sure people will want to contribute in scheme... 15:55:24 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 15:57:32 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d0674f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 15:58:22 -!- TheRealPygo [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f76981d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00:07 chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has joined #scheme 16:02:14 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d0674f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:02:38 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbec2bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 16:09:06 kuribas: well, I'm more a CL programmer, but you could port Butterfly CL to a modern Scheme, and have CLers help ;-) 16:10:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-202.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:07 But otherwise, lisp userlands would be nice. http://informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html 16:23:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:02 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 16:24:06 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:25:38 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:03 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 16:31:19 tomobrien [~tomobrien@host-92-2-68-225.as43234.net] has joined #scheme 16:31:29 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:32:51 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:05 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:37:49 leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.242] has joined #scheme 16:45:45 gravicappa 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[~mgodshall@76.161.200.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:42 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:09:13 Blkt` [~Blkt@82.84.172.197] has joined #scheme 18:10:29 Blkt`` [~Blkt@82.84.172.197] has joined #scheme 18:10:43 startingsicp [48d08f52@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.208.143.82] has joined #scheme 18:11:13 Hey all, I'm a massive noob. Never programmed before in my life. I'm trying to do SICP, I downloaded Scheme, and 18:11:25 I'm typing c-h t in the window and no tutorial is coming up 18:11:35 i don't know how to enter a command even ;_; 18:12:33 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.172.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:33 which version of scheme? 18:12:38 any body? 18:12:43 o sorry 18:12:44 9.1.1 18:12:46 just got the newest one 18:13:07 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 18:14:00 I'm not familiar with that software. I usually use guile or Racket (racket requires to choose scheme 5 (r5rs)). 18:14:32 startingsicp: edwin in MIT scheme uses emacs notation IIRC, so C-h t is Ctrl+h then t 18:14:41 -!- Blkt` [~Blkt@82.84.172.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:14:50 TY! 18:16:20 so, someone should mention that there are different implementations of the scheme language... 18:16:49 kudkudyak: only about 40. 18:17:24 each more incompatible than the last 18:18:28 if you just use the standard, then they are compatible ;) 18:18:54 but of course who is just using the standard? 18:19:18 this trend will continue with r7rs 18:19:29 so will the whining, i guess. :) 18:19:53 but whining is part of the fun ;) 18:20:01 my whining could be easily stopped by removing the words "standard" and "practical" from the document 18:21:17 Print it, and use a pen ;) 18:21:45 bribe jcowan 18:22:58 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:23:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-197.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:23:25 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:23 is there any common name for making a kind of alist where the key could be a function? 18:26:57 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.138.226] has joined #scheme 18:29:06 mvuets [~mvuets@dhcp-077-248-147-148.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 18:29:17 imphasing|home [~Alex@97-81-80-39.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #scheme 18:31:29 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:31:51 startingsicp: if you download Racket, you could try http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-sicp/ 18:32:01 or http://planet.plt-scheme.org/display.ss?package=sicp.plt&owner=soegaard 18:37:41 -!- woonie [~woonie@124.109.163.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:39:47 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 18:40:53 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:40:58 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:41:48 muep: what do you mean? 18:43:25 there is no problem with using functions as keys in an alist 18:45:19 I meant a variant where the functions would be evaluated with the key as a parameter, when searching for a pair that matches the key 18:45:59 but maybe just a cond sequence would suit my needs better 18:46:49 I guess, (define (weird-assoc key list) (assp (lambda (x) (x key)) list)) 18:47:09 civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 18:49:37 ah, indeed assp is already quite close 18:54:34 -!- server_failure [~bro@128.249.96.10] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:55:03 server_failure [~bro@128.249.96.10] has joined #scheme 18:55:34 -!- server_failure [~bro@128.249.96.10] has quit [Client Quit] 18:55:55 server_failure [~bro@128.249.96.10] has joined #scheme 19:01:02 robolobster54 [~robolobst@217.41.233.132] has joined #scheme 19:01:50 -!- ramrunner [~dsp@host86-163-217-20.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:10:12 can someone explain to me how Edwin interprets (- (if (> 3 4) 7 10) (/ 16 10)) 19:10:36 (> 3 4), the predicate, is clearly false 19:10:38 but then 19:11:21 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:11:26 shouldn't the interpreter move onto the alternative, 16/ 10? 19:11:45 that isn't the alternative, 10 is 19:12:18 what is the consequent then ? 19:12:23 so that is equivalent to (- 10 (/ 16 10)) 19:12:29 ty 19:12:38 i get it now 19:12:42 much appreciated 19:12:51 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 19:13:29 ramrunner [~dsp@host86-135-143-210.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:22:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:24:00 -!- ramrunner [~dsp@host86-135-143-210.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:24:17 With Edwin open, my only known way so far to evaluate expressions is to type in them in the little window at the bottom 19:24:32 hoi 19:24:38 is there anyway to make them automatically evaluated as i type them in at the top? i tried C-x b *scheme* but it still doesn't 19:26:12 -!- robolobster54 [~robolobst@217.41.233.132] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:27:33 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:28:11 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:36:17 -!- imphasing|home [~Alex@97-81-80-39.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: restart sucka] 19:38:13 i don't get it. i enter a *scheme* command buffer , and it doesn't log any of the results of my evaluations or the evaluations themself 19:38:21 it just gives me an answer that stay on the screen for about 5 sec 19:38:33 imphasing [~Alex@97-81-80-39.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:39:08 -!- tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:10 pjb: I have a question for you, as a CLer. 19:39:31 Yep. 19:39:39 pjb: In one of the other channels, I've been asked to describe the difference between (funcall (lambda ...) ...) vs ((lambda ...) ...) and why one should be preferred over the other. 19:40:13 ((lambda ...) ...) is a syntactic form, it only works when it's written like that. 19:40:29 In particular, he mentioned the fact that Emacs now marks ((lambda ...) ...) as deprecated, and he wants to understand why. 19:40:34 Ah, that makes sense. 19:40:39 (funcall (lambda ...) ...) is a mere function call, calling the function funcall with the function returned by (lambda ) and  as arguments. 19:40:54 So you can also write (funcall (compute-some-function) ) or (funcall that-function ) 19:41:03 that-function being a variable bound to a function. 19:41:08 *nods* 19:41:34 Thanks for the explanation! I'll pass it on. :-) 19:41:46 Well, ((lambda ) ) doesn't seem too useful, since it can be rewritten as a let. It's more often found useful in writing macros. 19:41:48 -!- drrckln [~drrckln@38.117.156.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:34 So you can write (defmacro m (fun) `(,fun)) and call it with either (m terpri) or (m (lambda () (+ 2 3))). 19:42:45 mmc [~michal@178-85-66-32.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 19:43:00 Right, that makes sense. Though you still have to deal with the fact that (compute-some-function) still won't work there. :-) 19:43:07 If ((lambda )) was forbidden, we would have to test in the macro whether fun is a lambda form or not. 19:43:15 cky: Indeed. 19:46:19 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:46:54 drrckln [drrckln@nat/hackerschool.com/x-gzddelbgfxqvqbbl] has joined #scheme 19:48:05 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:51:15 pjb: lambda is also a special form in CL, equivalent to #'lambda 19:51:22 er, #'(lambda ...) 19:53:01 jcowan: it's a macro that expands to that, yes. 19:53:27 But in the case of ((lambda ) ), the lambda for is not evaluated. It's directly compiled in. 19:53:47 Isn't either strategy usable? 19:54:01 Of course. CL use that one, scheme the other. 19:54:13 No, I mean either implementation strategy usable for CL. 19:54:24 CL compilers need not special-case ((lambda ...) ...) 19:54:41 whereas in CLtL1 it was necessary. 19:54:47 Well, they have because for (fun ) they have to special case the processing of fun. It's not evaluated as a variable. 19:55:00 Yes, that's still true 19:55:02 So once you special case it for (fun ) you can also do it for ((lambda )) 19:55:43 You can, but you are not required to. 19:56:33 jcowan: you're quite constrained in what you can do by the specification. You could use your implementation strategy perhaps, but ensuring it behave as specified. 20:01:59 Now that I think about it, it actually will not work as I thought, because (#'(lambda (a b c) (list a b c)) 1 2 3) is not a valid function call. 20:02:02 jcowan: but indeed, AFAIK, you can compile ((lambda ...) ...) just like (funcall (lambda ...) ...). 20:02:07 startingsicp, in a REPL buffer (e.g., *scheme*), type `C-x C-e' after an expression to evaluate it. 20:02:09 So ((lambda ...) ...) must be special cased. 20:02:36 I have been reading the revised report on Standard Lisp, an interesting pre-CL dialect. 20:02:37 Yes, but you can immediately revert to a normal case with (funcall (lambda ...) ...) 20:02:41 Right. 20:03:07 Or, you can optimize it out, and compile it similarly to a let form. 20:03:22 It explicitly prescribes dynamic scope for the arguments of interpreted functions and lexical scope for the arguments of compiled functions. That was de facto the case in MacLisp etc., but I never saw it prescribed before. 20:04:17 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:04:21 jcowan: they "documented" the implementations :-) 20:06:14 Sort of. The original report was meant to be a thin veneer over Lisp 1.5 implementations, but the revised report actually specifies a fixed dialect meant to be easy to implement on top of any Lispish system. For example, it hides the difference between Lisp-1s and Lisp-2s; it is an error to ask for the value of CAR, but you can SET or SETQ it to a value, in which case it is an error to invoke it. 20:06:59 Kind of like my intersection cl elisp r5rs :-) 20:11:02 Overall I am glad that R2RS did the Great Renaming, but it does make comparisons a bit more difficult. 20:11:20 s/value/non-procedure value 20:11:59 Or no, actually I'm wrong: setting CAR to a procedural value won't work, because we won't know if it's an expr, a fexpr, or a macro. Yes, both fexprs and CL-style macros. 20:14:13 And there is no FUNCALL. 20:17:08 No funcall? That sounds pretty useless. :-) 20:17:24 As far as being able to act on function objects stored in variables. 20:17:53 Even in pjb's CL/Elisp/Scheme cross-section, it's easy enough to define a funcall for Scheme to make interoperability possible. 20:18:40 s/easy enough/trivial/ 20:18:41 Well, you can set the symbol-function of some suitable atom and use that. 20:18:51 :-O 20:20:36 AFAICT, everything in Standard Lisp can be trivially embedded in R5RS except GENSYM and (UN)INTERN. In order to support line numbers and column numbers on output, you'd have to reimplement WRITE and DISPLAY, though. 20:27:47 rudybot: (define (my-gensym) (syntax->datum (car (generate-temporaries '(#t))))) 20:27:47 cky: your sandbox is ready 20:27:48 cky: Done. 20:27:52 rudybot: (my-gensym) 20:27:52 cky: ; Value: temp1 20:27:59 rudybot: (my-gensym) 20:27:59 cky: ; Value: temp2 20:28:28 jcowan: While generate-temporaries isn't R5RS, it's supported in any syntax-case implementation, so you can sort of emulate gensym that way. ;-) 20:29:46 Yes, although a global variable will do just as well. The resulting symbols, though, are interned. 20:30:13 rudybot: (define sym (gensym)) 20:30:14 cky: Done. 20:30:15 rudybot: sym 20:30:16 cky: ; Value: g1476 20:30:21 rudybot: (eq? sym 'g1476) 20:30:22 cky: ; Value: #f 20:30:30 I see your point. 20:30:37 The essence of GENSYM is that it returns an object that can't be re-read. A better approach is probably to use a different data structure altogether. 20:30:39 generate-temporaries generates interned symbols, by the way. 20:30:44 At least in Racket. 20:31:00 rudybot: (define sym (my-gensym)) 20:31:00 cky: Done. 20:31:01 rudybot: sym 20:31:02 cky: ; Value: temp3 20:31:07 rudybot: (eq? sym 'temp3) 20:31:08 cky: ; Value: #t 20:34:33 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 20:36:39 __rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.44.58] has joined #scheme 20:37:26 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:31 -!- antithesis [~antithesi@s51476e07.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: antithesis] 20:42:14 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:44:53 cky: (a) you should think about `syntax->datum' as a kind of marshalling of syntax that can lose information; (b) there is no need for the uninterned symbol hack when you have a lexical context -- since the latter trivially supersedes the hack. 20:47:14 Does anyone know why R6RS custom ports don't support peeking on input or flushing on output? 20:49:35 jcowan: is there an apply? Then (define (funcall f . args) (apply f args)) 20:49:37 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 20:50:44 I am having trouble understanding the following evaluation: (cond ((>= a 2) b) ((< (square b) (multiply-by-itself a)) (/ 1 0)) (else (abs (- (square a) b)))) 20:50:46 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 20:50:48 Yes, there is, so that works, although the definition can't be so simple because there are no variable-arg functions except fexprs. 20:50:59 If anyone could explain it that would be wonderful. I'm a big time noobie going through sicp ^.^ 20:51:16 edwin spits out 13 20:51:40 It spits out 13 for what values of a and b? 20:51:50 oh sorry, they're b oth 13 20:53:13 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-61-234.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:53:20 13 is >= 2 20:53:43 hence the first clause gets executed 20:54:24 So you just stop after the first predicate and clause, and never move on to the rest? 20:54:26 TY! 20:54:43 You stop after the first predicate that is true. 20:54:50 In this case, the very first. 20:55:36 so you look at (con ((>= 13 2) 13) in isolation, correct? 20:56:14 is that like saying, if a is greater than or equal to 2, than b? 20:57:06 sure, but if a is not >= 2 then it tries the next predicate 20:57:27 ty 20:58:29 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:52 kuribas` [~user@94-227-36-245.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:01:16 -!- kuribas` [~user@94-227-36-245.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:21 -!- hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:05:21 -!- jonathansizz [~ian@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:05:21 -!- getpwnam [~ian@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:05:22 -!- __rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.44.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:05:33 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:08:23 -!- palach [~palach@93.175.8.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:54 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-146-56.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 21:11:04 -!- LeoNerd [~leo@cel.leonerd.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:32 palach [~palach@93.175.8.83] has joined #scheme 21:11:41 LeoNerd [~leo@cel.leonerd.org.uk] has joined #scheme 21:17:57 -!- palach [~palach@93.175.8.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:42 -!- tomobrien [~tomobrien@host-92-2-68-225.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:22:38 -!- mvuets [~mvuets@dhcp-077-248-147-148.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: 73!] 21:25:03 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 21:26:39 -!- chu_ is now known as chu 21:26:48 -!- unglue [~tristan@lvps176-28-16-172.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:27:32 (* 5 (- 2 (/ 4 2) (/ 8 3))) i feel like i've been look at this too long. i'm regressing now and can't tell the difference between these two 21:27:37 (* 5 (- 2 (/ 4 2)) (/ 8 3)) 21:28:18 tomobrien [~tomobrien@host-92-2-68-225.as43234.net] has joined #scheme 21:28:31 use more 'colours'; 21:28:50 The first one multiplies two values, the second one multiplies three values. 21:28:50 [(8/3) - 2] * 5 * 0 for the first one.. why isn't it zero? argh 21:28:52 pejusify [~Peter@HSI-KBW-078-043-114-190.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 21:30:17 startingsicp: you are computing 2 - 21:30:46 startingsicp: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129967 21:30:58 startingsicp: ie. write a program to show you the difference. I wrote draw-list. 21:31:15 robolobster54 [~robolobst@77.241.58.140] has joined #scheme 21:31:34 i'll try that. thanks 21:33:34 -!- turbofail [~user@38.99.37.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:41 -!- acedia [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:41 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 21:34:10 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.138.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:53 turbofail [~user@38.99.37.210] has joined #scheme 21:37:55 -!- tomobrien [~tomobrien@host-92-2-68-225.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:38:29 bah i still don't get it 21:39:37 your first one is basically (* a (- b c d)) 21:39:49 whereas the second one is (* a b c) 21:39:54 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:40:04 er i mean (* a (- b c) d) 21:40:06 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #scheme 21:40:57 eli: Thanks for the explanation---now it makes sense why it's interned. :-) 21:41:43 startingsicp: The first expression is 5 * (2 - 4/2 - 8/3); the second expression is 5 * (2 - 4/2) * 8/3. 21:41:53 Can you see the difference now? 21:43:07 i thought for the first one you would subtract 2 from each after you did the division? 21:43:27 (- a b c) is the same as a - b - c. 21:43:51 rudybot: (- 10 4 3 2 1) 21:43:52 cky: ; Value: 0 21:44:01 rudybot: (- 10 4 3) 21:44:01 cky: ; Value: 3 21:44:48 thank you 21:45:00 :-) 21:45:35 though the operator you thought "-" was is interesting 21:46:48 the way i was thinking of the first one is [(4/2) - 2][(8/3) - 2] *5 21:47:51 rudybot: (define (my- x . ys) (apply * (map (lambda (n) (- n x)) ys))) 21:47:52 cky: Done. 21:48:01 rudybot: (* 5 (my- 2 4/2 8/3)) 21:48:02 cky: ; Value: 0 21:48:04 ;-) 21:48:39 so confused now! xD 21:48:54 startingsicp: The "my-" I defined above implements the function you described. :-P 21:49:32 startingsicp: Clearly, it's very different from what - really does. 21:49:56 cky: the proposed operator would have to work with enclosing operators other than "*" though 21:50:08 turbofail: True, that. >_< 21:51:07 i don't think this could be implemented unless all the usual arithmetic functions were rewritten to accept lists of numbers in addition to regular numbers 21:51:31 or if you did all your arithmetic in some sort of arithmetic-mangling macro 21:51:32 Well, you could alternatively make function calls behave like CL's multiple-value-call. 21:51:37 Then, you could just return the values as MV. 21:51:56 well yeah that could work too 21:52:24 so every arithmetic function would have to be able to accept a multiple valued return in the middle of their arglists 21:52:29 unglue [~tristan@lvps176-28-16-172.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #scheme 21:52:35 ;-) 21:53:18 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:54:08 startingsicp: i'm kind of curious as to what made you think (* a (- b c d)) would translate into a*(c-b)*(d-b) 21:55:49 tuubow_ [~adityavit@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:57:02 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:58:36 -!- Blkt`` [~Blkt@82.84.172.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:48 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:01:50 jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:02:29 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:03:38 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:23 -!- kudkudyak [~user@94.72.166.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:48 ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 22:17:31 jcowan: I don't know about flushing, but supporting peek seems easy enough 22:17:48 imphasin1 [~Alex@97-81-80-39.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:18:17 -!- imphasing [~Alex@97-81-80-39.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:18:22 -!- imphasin1 is now known as imphasing 22:19:01 The layer above has to pull a byte out and then buffer it, since there is no way to push it back. That means if you are trying to use both levels, you get problems. 22:19:23 the buffering can be done internally by the implementation, 22:20:08 turbofai` [~user@38.99.37.210] has joined #scheme 22:20:42 startingsicp: write a program that prints the sexp in infix form. 22:20:45 I don't think the intended implementation of say, get-bytevector-n! is ((port-read-procedure port) bv n) 22:21:00 -!- turbofai` is now known as turbofail` 22:22:03 unless I'm missing somethign, custom ports aren't something I use regularly 22:22:25 yosafbridge` [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 22:22:40 dnm [~dnm@li97-254.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 22:22:49 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 22:23:04 -!- dnm is now known as Guest76193 22:23:05 rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #scheme 22:23:26 fds_ [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 22:23:28 confab_ [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:24:01 nothing in the rationale document, alas 22:24:10 c3l_ [~c3l@c-e393e253.04-264-73746f13.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:24:21 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-002.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:24:29 roderic_ [~roderic@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:24:31 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 22:24:31 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:24:31 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 22:24:45 Pepe__ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has joined #scheme 22:24:53 ijp: his confusion wasn't related to the grouping, it was due to a misunderstanding of what the "-" operator actually does 22:25:13 fhd_ [~fhd@vserver2179.vserver-on.de] has joined #scheme 22:25:23 startingsicp: (begin (infix '(* 5 (- 2 (/ 4 2) (/ 8 3)))) (newline) (infix '(* 5 (- 2 (/ 4 2)) (/ 8 3))) (newline)) prints (5*(2-(4/2)-(8/3))) and (5*(2-(4/2))*(8/3)) 22:26:06 acarrico1 [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-45-14.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 22:26:21 startingsicp: http://paste.lisp.org/+2SA8 22:26:24 fantazo_ [~fantazo@91.119.75.149] has joined #scheme 22:28:22 dsmith_ [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:28:28 jcowan: near as I can tell, the assumption is that custom ports to support peeking and flushing, but this is an "under the hood detail" 22:28:30 -!- drrckln [drrckln@nat/hackerschool.com/x-gzddelbgfxqvqbbl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:04 as opposed to, say guile's soft ports, where behaviour on flush is expected to be specified. 22:29:07 -!- turbofail` [~user@38.99.37.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:08 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:18 rapacity_ [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 22:29:36 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:29:36 -!- turbofail 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