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has joined #scheme 03:22:04 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-xqiwfkwtzctihgay] has joined #scheme 03:22:15 -!- aesundstrom [~aesundstr@cpe-74-73-233-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 03:23:59 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-22-211.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:24:41 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 03:26:48 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-184.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:28:43 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-184.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:29:06 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 03:30:26 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:31 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has left #scheme 03:41:44 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:19 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:47:58 evildaemon [~user@50-35-181-162.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:10 cky: you abandoned us?! 03:51:59 -!- ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:23 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:55:01 qU1j0t3: He has gone where the woodbine twineth. 03:55:27 jcowan: he may not be back for some time? 03:56:52 Ghu, I hope not. 03:57:08 *qU1j0t3* laughs 03:57:20 s/not be back/be gone 03:59:37 jcowan: 'Oates, handicapped by frostbite, sacrificed himself by crawling out of the tent into a blizzard. But not before uttering the best exit line ever, ??^VI??^Vm going out for a walk now. I may be some time.??^V 04:00:23 Yeah, we were both wrong. 04:00:29 yeah 04:01:02 live and learn. 04:01:23 Then again, of course, that's just what Scott wrote in his journal. 04:02:47 Possibly the rest of the team staved off scurvy by eating Oates and then making up the whole story. The body was never found. 04:03:51 in any case, cky went out into the blizzard and we have not seen him since 04:04:41 The old explorers used Vi? 04:04:52 No, no, no. The old explorers used "ex"! 04:04:56 or even "ed"! 04:05:14 That's what I'd have thought, but ... 04:05:42 But me no buts, and uncle me no uncles. 04:05:59 -!- evildaemon [~user@50-35-181-162.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:06:59 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-82.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:08:30 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:11:10 you fools. they clearly survived on TECO and salted beef. 04:12:12 *jcowan* survived on TECO alone until he trashed the source code and spent a whole night trying to get it back. 04:12:29 I was implementing it for RSTS/E 04:12:31 ouch 04:12:36 bit of a boring way to sacrifice himself... he could've at least set himself ablaze: spectacular *and* a useful source of heat for the remaining team members 04:12:40 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-26-233.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:12:47 *offby1* remembers RSTS/E 04:12:59 sizz_: that sounds too postmodern for a victorian 04:13:04 sizz_: less painful his way 04:13:17 You do? Cool! 04:13:22 *nod 04:13:30 's what I learnt my ABCs on 04:13:31 This was just before the multiple OS release, where we got real Teco. 04:13:33 evildaemon [~user@50-35-181-162.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #scheme 04:14:33 'course all I did with it was write little Basic-Plus programs. I was 11 years old. 04:14:35 Are there decent SDL bindings for scheme? 04:14:56 offby1: :-D 04:15:13 offby1: i was about that age when i first saw a Terak running UCSD p-system 04:15:18 'Sfunny, I forget what I was actually *working* working on. I just remember hacking Teco in Basic-Plus. 04:15:44 *offby1* stares blankly 04:15:59 surely you didn't write TECO in ... Basic-Plus? 04:15:59 offby1: never thought i'd own a pdp-11. now there's one under my desk here that i must find time to turn on. it's got its original laboratory install of rt-11 04:16:01 evildaemon: There's a Chicken egg for it. 04:16:02 Shirley? 04:16:18 offby1: Oh yes I did! 04:16:26 qU1j0t3: ha! I didn't know they came that small. There's an emulator available as a Debian package. 04:16:34 jcowan: damn 04:16:34 jcowan: I'll take that as a no. 04:16:41 offby1: it's a MicroPDP indeed. i do have some bigger ones. stored elsewhere. 04:16:43 evildaemon: Why as a no? 04:16:57 o.O 04:17:23 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:17:25 offby1: yeah, simh. familiar. i put the pdp-11 asm examples (and vax-11 asm examples) on wikipedia, about 8 years ago. 04:17:30 yep http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ 04:17:39 I ran the pdp-8 emulator for a while 04:17:48 kinda fun to boot OS/8 04:17:51 jcowan: yeah, i wrote a cross-assembler for that. 04:17:55 Right. 04:18:05 qU1j0t3: there's a 5% chance my friend still has his paper tapes from back then. 'Course there's no way to read them now ... 04:18:06 nice system 04:18:19 i've only SEEN one real pdp-8. the straight-8, plexiglas and all 04:18:28 geez, the average age in this channel must be at least 30 04:18:46 offby1: only when jcowan drops in. 04:18:48 *qU1j0t3* runz 04:18:52 there was an 8 at the place I learned. I didn't use it much; it seemed mysterious 04:19:14 offby1: dunno; i know people with paper tape. there are reliable readers, but not easy to find. 04:24:29 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:24:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-26-233.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:24:46 evildaemon: I repeat: why do you take that as a no? 04:25:36 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #scheme 04:28:39 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-110.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:29:38 perhaps he misinterpreted it 04:36:41 -!- jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:40:28 -!- NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:45:34 -!- tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:49:12 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 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[~fschwidom@46.115.12.103] has joined #scheme 17:30:28 <__rahul__> what would be a way to convert a number in decimal format to a list of it's digits (without the decimal point)? can this be done without converting to string and back? 17:30:50 I'd do it by a string 17:31:04 Failing that you can generate a list by repeated application of div-mod by 10 17:31:13 But the string form is likely quickest 17:32:52 <__rahul__> div-mod being quotient and remainder? 17:34:23 __rahul__: yes. 17:34:39 1234 divmod 10 => 123,4 17:35:05 So you repeatedly apply while the quotient remains nonzero, collecting up the remainders as you go; when you're done you have a list of the decimal digits 17:35:10 (or digits in any base really) 17:35:44 <__rahul__> but quotient only works for integers 17:36:23 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 17:36:24 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:38:26 __rahul__: are you trying to get the decimal expansion of a floating point number? 17:38:47 __rahul__: for what purpose exactly? 17:39:11 <__rahul__> just want to collect the digits of a real number say 1.23445 into a list 17:39:44 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-126-68.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:40:42 -!- dnolen [~user@142.131.228.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:42:08 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 17:42:08 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:42:42 __rahul__: go via string. ugly, but it will work. if you know how many significant digits, then multiply the number by 10^n, and take the floor 17:42:52 then use the method for integers. 17:43:37 __rahul__: e.g. 1.23445 * 10^5 = 123445 17:43:39 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 17:43:39 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:43:40 <__rahul__> what's the best way to convert to string/ 17:43:44 (though it probably has six significant digits) 17:43:59 #;1> (number->string 1.23445) 17:44:01 "1.23445" 17:44:09 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 17:44:09 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:44:19 __rahul__: just be aware of what the string formatter does. 17:44:36 turbofail [~user@38.99.37.210] has joined #scheme 17:44:45 __rahul__: #;1> (number->string 12333333333333333.0) 17:44:47 "1.23333333333333e+16" 17:44:49 ^^^^^^ PROBLEM 17:44:56 __rahul__: this is why you should be precise about your requirements. 17:45:27 (and also why going via string is a nasty hack) 17:45:32 <__rahul__> indeed 17:45:34 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-174-63-147-172.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:45:59 <__rahul__> the number of digits is a variable so i don't know that ahead of time 17:46:12 mark_wea_ [~user@c-98-216-245-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:46:23 -!- mark_weaver [~user@c-98-216-245-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:27 -!- mark_wea_ is now known as mark_weaver` 17:46:30 -!- mark_weaver` is now known as mark_weaver 17:46:32 __rahul__: that's not a problem for integer_digits(floor(x*10^n)) ; deal with negative numbers appropriately 17:47:26 <__rahul__> what's the best way to find out the number of digits given a number? 17:47:33 heheheh 17:47:35 what do you mean? 17:47:44 <__rahul__> the 'n' above 17:47:50 where does the value come from? 17:47:53 is it a measurement? 17:47:58 <__rahul__> user input 17:48:00 if so, it has an inherent precision 17:48:06 no, what does it MEAN 17:48:12 __rahul__: do you mean decimal digits? including the decimal point, or not? including the minus sign, or not? 17:48:12 and what precision does it have 17:48:29 __rahul__: tell us SOMETHING about your application, what the number MEANS 17:48:45 __rahul__: is 19282377242.328732848264 valid input? 17:48:46 <__rahul__> it's going to be irrational numbers of arbitrary length 17:48:57 __rahul__: why store them in floating point then? 17:49:03 __rahul__: seems you have bigger problems :) 17:49:20 __rahul__: if you tell us what you will use this "number of digits" for, then we may be able to answer some of my earlier questions for you. 17:49:22 __rahul__: floating point has limited precision. what do the numbers MEAN? 17:49:23 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 17:49:24 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:49:28 __rahul__: how many digits are significant? 17:49:53 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 17:49:53 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:49:56 irrational numbers always require an infinite number of digits after the decimal point. 17:50:16 <__rahul__> the number of significant digits is uncertain like i said... user can input a number as long as she wants. 17:50:48 __rahul__: then please answer our questions. WHAT DO THE NUMBERS ***MEAN*** 17:50:49 <__rahul__> the 'size' of the number will not be large.. 17:51:08 __rahul__: we can't help you if you don't clarify what exactly you mean by "number of digits". 17:51:09 <__rahul__> no physical significance.. think of it as a numbers game 17:51:19 __rahul__: then floating point probably is not what you want. 17:51:39 __rahul__: probably you want a string representation in the first place, or at most, pairs of integers. 17:52:05 __rahul__: what kind of arithmetic or other operations do you then make on the numbers? if list manipulation only, then that underlines my suggestion. 17:52:28 __rahul__: probably list of characters may be easiest 17:52:40 __rahul__: ...depending on your subsequent operations. 17:52:53 <__rahul__> yes list manipulation only 17:52:56 qU1j0t3: I'm not sure we have enough information to conclude what representation he should use. 17:53:12 mark_weaver: well, now i think i do. 17:53:15 mark_weaver: ^^ 17:53:25 mark_weaver: floating point does NOT sound suitable at all 17:53:38 robolobster54 [~robolobst@host217-39-9-24.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #scheme 17:53:49 __rahul__: can you please answer these questions? (1) number of digits in decimal form, or not? (2) including the number of digits after the decimal point? (3) including the sign, or not? 17:54:12 mark_weaver: he wants a list of characters. 17:54:16 mark_weaver: you may have come in halfway 17:54:49 <__rahul__> mark_weaver: 1, yes in decimal form. 45.123 has 5 digits this way. 2) yes 3) no 17:55:40 __rahul__: so your input is a string and you want a list of characters. I would not go via either floating point or integer, in this case. 17:55:54 __rahul__: unless you needed floating point or integer ops, which you don't. 17:56:46 <__rahul__> cool, thanks for the suggestion! 17:56:51 __rahul__: the problem with IEEE floating point is that there are many numbers in decimal form that it cannot represent precisely. For example, 0.1 is a repeating decimal in binary form (just like 1/3 is repeating in decimal form) 17:56:59 the other problem is limited precision. 17:57:30 __rahul__: if you need to preserve the digits after the decimal point precisely, then you should not use normal numbers. 17:57:46 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:58:12 or at least not inexact numbers. you could use exact rationals, but I suspect that's not ideal for your program either. 17:58:27 <__rahul__> indeed it isn't 17:58:36 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:58:39 superfluous conversions 17:58:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-74.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:58:54 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-22-211.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:52 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-5-228.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 18:09:27 -!- __rahul__ 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arrdem [~arrdem@rrcs-71-42-216-31.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:28:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-74.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:29:25 robolobster54 [~robolobst@host217-39-9-24.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #scheme 19:31:26 Hey guys, I'm working on writing a compiler in scheme from scheme to asm and I was hoping you guys would have some ideas for how to access a file as a list of lists 19:31:38 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f7692c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:55 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f77bbee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:37:40 wow.... that would be (read [port]). rtfm at its finest. 19:41:24 -!- tupi [~david@177.108.87.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:42:14 -!- robolobster54 [~robolobst@host217-39-9-24.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:42:34 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:44:36 tupi 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