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(i (= a b) (p a) (p b)) 01:46:48 p is print. 01:46:59 pjb: don't give them ideas 01:47:36 (? (= a b) ( a) ( b)) 01:47:52 pjb: isn't that equivalent to (p b) 01:48:39 Yes :-) 01:48:49 not quite. 01:49:10 for example, if a is +0.0 and b is -0.0, then there is a difference. 01:49:16 if a and b are = then ... 01:49:26 also, a and/or b may not be numbers 01:49:50 = implies they are. 01:49:55 = may not be the = you think it is, and may perform evil side effects... 01:50:01 pjb: in a typed language yes 01:50:11 These are not the =s you are looking for. 01:50:19 lol 01:56:32 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:56:32 adu: is combining features so great? Aren't orthogonal features + macros better? 01:56:38 *asumu* doesn't know Arc's stance on macros 01:56:52 there's a lot of macros in arc 01:56:58 and they're not hygenic 01:58:30 asumu: I've been making a list of arc forms, http://paste.lisp.org/display/128661 01:59:21 Way too many of them begin with a. 02:00:54 So many missing hyphens. ;) 02:01:58 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:09 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:09:05 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-63-71.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:14:11 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:19:16 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:20:14 -!- turbofail [~user@c-67-169-92-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:20:55 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #scheme 02:25:21 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:58 -!- bitonic [~Francesco@93-40-95-74.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 02:48:45 OMG my brain just exploded 02:48:55 Ewwwwww 02:49:06 you better clean that up 02:49:06 ((call/cc call/cc) vector) actually works 02:49:08 *gnomon* reaches for the paper towels and the soda water 02:49:18 of course 02:50:16 jake__ [~jake@c-71-198-241-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:51:07 I'm having trouble explaining why though 02:52:44 Why does (call/cc call/cc) appear to be the same as (lambda (x) (x x))? 02:53:39 that would make a great blog entry 02:55:47 -!- Patches [~Patches@user-12lc886.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:45 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:06:36 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:41 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:08:57 adu: http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/callcc-fixpoint.txt 03:09:20 ijp: sweet! thanks 03:10:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 03:10:54 Just remember, it's not really Y, it's Z. 03:11:21 Z? 03:12:05 Y is the *lazy* fixpoint; Z is the *eager* fixpoint, usually called Z in a Scheme context. 03:17:06 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 03:17:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-124-44.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:19:42 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 03:23:32 jcowan: Thanks for that link! http://stackoverflow.com/a/9936596/13 03:29:45 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 03:36:44 arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:37:14 -!- yamanu [~yamanu@cpe-212-18-40-64.static.amis.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:39:00 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:43 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:44:19 yamanu [~yamanu@cpe-212-18-40-64.static.amis.net] has joined #scheme 03:48:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:50:07 hypnocat [~hypnocat@unaffiliated/hypnocat] has joined #scheme 03:58:41 confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:02:24 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-30.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:02:43 ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 04:03:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.44] has joined #scheme 04:03:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.44] has quit [Changing host] 04:03:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 04:03:22 jcowan : `(lambda (f) ((lambda (t) (t t)) (lambda (g) (lambda (x) ((f (g g)) x)))))' is called `Z' ? 04:03:39 If you say so. I'd have to look it up. 04:04:07 just wondering which difference the difference between `Y' and `Z' would be 04:04:54 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 04:04:54 i'm basically asking if `Z' is the eta-expanded one which only creates fix-points that are functions 04:05:26 (one could possibly adapt it to tuples of functions and/or promises, i suppose) 04:18:29 -!- masm [~masm@bl17-207-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:22:27 Alla this magic recursion doesn't mean much to me, really. I'm quite happy to (a) use names and (b) take on faith that it can be done without names for those who care. 04:23:59 jcowan: Indeed. 04:24:53 For me, truth is more important than proof, and prose or code, or especially both, much more readable than formalisms. 04:25:01 (Code is technically a formalism too, I admit.) 04:25:26 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:25:49 ski: So go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-point_combinator and you may perhaps be enlightened. 04:29:00 -!- jake__ [~jake@c-71-198-241-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:30:23 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:59 -!- forcer [~forcer@hmbg-5f762c07.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:48:47 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 04:49:30 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:33 tom_i 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-!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:28:48 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 10:29:02 can perl modules be used with scheme scripts in some way? 10:29:34 dzhus [~sphinx@176.14.94.92] has joined #scheme 10:36:31 -!- oneirophren [oneirophre@91.196.91.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:37:39 oneirophren [oneirophre@91.196.91.40] has joined #scheme 10:42:04 -!- oneirophren [oneirophre@91.196.91.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:42:26 oneirophren [oneirophre@91.196.91.40] has joined #scheme 10:43:35 hm... 10:43:35 10:43:37 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:44:12 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 10:47:13 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-253-86.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 10:47:34 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:51:13 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] 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[Client Quit] 18:16:40 wollw [~davidsher@adsl-75-30-114-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:27:00 jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:27:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:15 hoi 18:32:04 -!- turbofail [~user@c-67-169-92-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:24 rly [~rly@unaffiliated/rly] has joined #scheme 18:33:03 What's the name of that GUI environment for Scheme? It had been used internally by some company and then fixed up a bit. 18:33:14 It is not dr*. 18:33:28 jazzscheme? 18:34:18 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:34:19 turbofail [~user@c-24-5-89-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:34:54 ijp: correct. Thanks. 18:35:35 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 18:35:49 Is JazzScheme a dead project now? 18:36:54 "Dead" is never a safe word to use about any Scheme. Some of them are "carefully conserved". 18:36:58 Everyone, I forked a child process yesterday: 9 lbs., 22 in. 18:37:03 I don't think so, the creator still seems active on the mailing list 18:37:05 Ooooh, congratulations! 18:37:09 klutometis: Congrats :-) 18:37:20 klutometis: is it a boy, girl, or other? 18:37:26 *jcowan* luuuuuuuuuves babies (but not with mustard). 18:37:27 Pix? 18:37:39 Thanks, you guys; #scheme is one of the first to know. 18:37:48 congrats 18:37:57 ijp: That's true: sex isn't binary. A boy, though; unambiguously. 18:38:14 when will you start training your newest disciple in the ways of the parentheses? 18:38:22 wait a short while, and you'll be desperately trying to renice it 18:38:41 klutometis: glad to hear that everything is functional. 18:38:55 jcowan: My sister took this one about 30 secs after delivery: ; head still deformed from passage through the narrow straits. 18:39:07 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 18:39:08 ijp: Heh! 18:39:13 qu1j0t3: Thanks. 18:39:28 turbofail: Is four appropriate? Logo was a Lisp, apparently. 18:39:38 i would say earlier 18:40:01 like now 18:40:06 klutometis: "CUrrently unavailable" 18:40:14 Does anyone actually do something with Scheme besides building toys? 18:41:19 Depends a lot on what you call "toys" 18:41:32 Most 'modern' applications are web-applications these days and I haven't heard of some very optimized web-framework for Scheme and or benchmarks of said not-existing systems. 18:41:37 Also, you tend to get more serious answers if your questions don't sound like flame baits :-) 18:41:41 jcowan: Try this: . 18:41:54 turbofail: Maybe I'll fashion a parentheti-mobile. 18:42:13 rly: one thing I discovered today is that uim embeds sigscheme 18:42:15 Cutie-pie. Is "Kairos" the kid's name, or just referring to the moment? 18:42:19 It's not a toy if more than 500 users can use it per second and it provides for at least $5000/month revenue. 18:42:32 rly: I developed a full-stack laboratory information system in Scheme: everything from web to robots. 18:42:44 and apple use it for their sandbox thing 18:42:59 rly: Our market cap was a modest 100m. 18:43:10 klutometis: what does a full-stack laboratory information system do? 18:43:13 .oO(waits for someone to say that macosx is a toy :) 18:43:23 Computers are toys, really. 18:43:24 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:43:40 indeed 18:43:46 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has left #scheme 18:43:48 I recently saw an article stating that the authors can not see any conceivable use for a home computer. 18:44:06 1985 wasn't that long ago, either. 18:44:10 rly: Sequences DNA; manages tumor samples from accessioning through microdissection through PCR; runs statistics on said samples; delivers reports. 18:44:10 jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:44:18 forcer: you mean a general purpose one, as opposed to an appliance? 18:44:28 ah, 1985 :) 18:44:32 klutometis: accessioning is a word? 18:44:32 Sorry :-P 18:44:40 -!- turbofail [~user@c-24-5-89-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:44:45 rly: It is a degenerate neologism coined by biz-types. 18:45:38 klutometis: and the robots part? 18:45:45 klutometis: does it actually control anything? 18:46:51 klutometis: which IDE/editor-mode do you use? 18:47:18 rly: Issues commands to the e.g. microplate pipetter over serial; same thing with the TaqMan over TCP/IP. 18:47:21 rly: emacs 18:48:36 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:48:51 klutometis: you simply use scheme-mode? 18:49:02 klutometis: not something more fancy like a SLIME setup? 18:49:34 klutometis: it sounds like a nice application (and something more useful than a random web-application) 18:50:18 rly: There was a little Clojure in the stack, and I messed around with SLIME; paredit and M-x run-scheme are sufficient, though. 18:52:55 klutometis | rly: It is a degenerate neologism coined by biz-types. // it can meet 'incent' and 'incentivise' in Hell. 18:53:42 qu1j0t3: No shit; even synergy, as far as I'm concerned. 18:53:59 Patches [~Patches@user-12lc886.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 18:54:31 klutometis: congrats 18:54:50 offby1: Thanks, Eric. 18:56:13 The synergy effects of accessioning enterprise-grade solutions in the cloud should incentivise excellence in extreme programming? 18:56:32 *offby1* will wait for no-longer-deformed-head pix 18:56:46 forcer: you forgot web 2.0 18:57:02 forcer: <3 18:57:17 by my count, Web 2.0 is ~ eight years old now. 18:57:19 and nosql 18:57:40 these buzzwords aren't just going to use themselves 18:58:13 rudybot: did we leave any out? 18:58:14 ijp: I *think* it has a back end. My advice is not to bother for now. Learn how to read the manual and get comformtable with emavs first. If you used VS or eclipse then emacs completion wnad context mode/specifics will no doubt leave you cold. 18:58:31 rudybot: revenge 18:58:32 qu1j0t3: sorry but I just had to take my revenge. Being interrupted by a bot while I bother writing a nice and gentle introduction to my problem is not the kind of delicacy I enjoy. 18:58:33 *leppie* likes Chrome and does Web 18.0 18:58:43 jcowan: http://stackoverflow.com/a/9936596/13 <-- thanks again! You posted that link at a very good time. :-) 18:58:56 Chrome is up to 18? 18:59:04 jcowan: (Re implementing Y combinator using call/cc) 18:59:17 ijp: jip, today :p 18:59:26 and here I am using firefox 13 like a sucker 18:59:40 Every time you turn around there is a new major version. 18:59:51 Just think of it as 1.1.13. 19:00:12 jcowan: indeed. klutometis just shipped something. 19:00:20 for every 2 adobe flash updates, there is a new new chrome major version 19:00:21 jcowan: or at least, his partner did 19:00:26 *ijp* assumes awesomeness is a monotonic function on version number 19:00:32 klutometis: Congrats! 19:00:34 ijp: hmmmmmmm 19:00:41 *cky* is still catching up with scrollback. 19:00:44 Not always, no. Sometimes the latest version is just digging the hole deeper. 19:00:58 turbofail [~user@c-24-5-89-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:01:06 jcowan: :) 19:01:19 jcowan: wait, wait, are we talking about Draft numbering, or versions, or ... 19:01:25 *qu1j0t3* runz 19:02:16 cky: Thanks! 19:02:24 IronScheme has been in 'RC' state for 3 years now ;p 19:02:31 Really Crude? 19:02:44 Renumbering Candidate. :-P 19:02:54 rampant centioptimisations 19:02:54 qu1j0t3: what cky said ;p 19:03:11 Regularly Crashing 19:03:18 qu1j0t3++ 19:03:26 a centioptimisation is ten times bigger than a millioptimisation, naturally 19:03:39 *qu1j0t3* doesn't use IronScheme and nothing I say should be taken as any judgment implied or otherwise about the serviceability of the product 19:03:52 qu1j0t3 ;p 19:04:05 *ijp* revokes qu1j0t3's warranty 19:04:05 it's all 'umour innit. 19:05:33 IronScheme is like Wine I guess, almost not quite there 19:06:24 inb4 Zeno 19:07:25 inb4 Duke Nukem Forever, you mean. :-P 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