00:07:18 -!- knightlain [~sabayonus@187.172.174.116] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:42 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:15:05 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-234-240.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 00:20:35 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.176] has joined #scheme 00:24:44 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:58 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 00:28:10 h 00:29:10 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-97-29.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:30:18 jcowan, you around? 00:30:53 amoe [~amoe@host-92-24-171-16.ppp.as43234.net] has joined #scheme 00:35:34 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-92-24-171-16.ppp.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:35:51 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:41:18 -!- n00b4lyfe [~n00b4lyfe@unaffiliated/tasmania] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:46 -!- masm [~masm@bl17-192-238.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:59:44 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:00:52 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:02:48 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-217-251.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 01:04:24 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-206-125.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:05:51 -!- bitonic [~Francesco@93-40-81-234.ip37.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 01:10:06 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f769d11.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:10:15 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbed886.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 01:18:40 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-31-176.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 01:18:48 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-10-120.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:18:58 -!- bfgun is now known as bfig 01:25:08 arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:25:38 crunchybumble [~chatzilla@adsl-99-31-15-148.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:27:00 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:18 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:29:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-233.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:39:49 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-31-176.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:40:11 bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-31-176.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 01:42:54 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-217-251.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:53:45 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-217-251.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 02:00:07 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:04:52 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-217-251.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:06:21 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-217-251.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 02:09:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-234-240.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:28 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:18:53 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:25:52 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 02:25:52 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 02:29:57 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:45:38 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-217-251.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50:21 steampunkey [4e868b2b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.139.43] has joined #scheme 02:51:30 hey peeps. i've got a problem. i'm trying to (list-tail list real), but scm is reporting "wrong type in arg2 1.0". what's up with that? 02:52:11 -!- samth_ [~samth@c-66-31-201-165.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:53:46 steampunkey: It needs to be an integer, not a flonum. 02:54:03 rudybot: (list-tail '(1 2 3) 1) 02:54:03 cky: your sandbox is ready 02:54:03 cky: ; Value: (2 3) 02:54:11 rudybot: (list-tail '(1 2 3) 1.0) 02:54:11 cky: error: list-tail: expects type as 2nd argument, given: 1.0; other arguments were: '(1 2 3) 02:54:24 aren't they all the same type really? 02:54:27 No. 02:54:34 rudybot: (integer? 1) 02:54:34 cky: ; Value: #t 02:54:35 how can i cast to integer then? 02:54:37 rudybot: (integer? 1.0) 02:54:37 cky: ; Value: #t 02:54:40 Whoa. 02:54:45 mhm. 02:54:52 steampunkey: Try using inexact->exact 02:54:55 (float? 1) 02:54:58 rudybot: (float? 1) 02:54:59 steampunkey: your sandbox is ready 02:54:59 steampunkey: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: float? in module: 'program 02:55:04 rudybot: (list-tail '(1 2 3) (inexact->exact 1.0)) 02:55:04 cky: ; Value: (2 3) 02:55:40 ungh. sounds implementation-specific :-( 02:55:48 inexact->exact is standard. 02:55:55 rudybot: (flonum? 1) 02:55:55 steampunkey: ; Value: #f 02:57:36 cky: oh? good then. thanks. 02:57:42 :-) 02:57:47 rudybot: (inexact->exact 1.2) 02:57:47 steampunkey: ; Value: 5404319552844595/4503599627370496 02:57:59 O.O 02:58:05 Yes, that is expected. 02:58:43 If you understand how binary floating-point works, you'll understand that that's the closest approximation to 1.2. 02:58:50 so what, you (define (int f) (inexact->exact (round f))) ? 02:58:56 Sure. 02:59:00 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:59:03 Or even truncate, floor, etc. 02:59:11 Depending on what rounding behaviour you want. 02:59:27 rudybot: (inexact->exact 1.25) 02:59:28 cky: ; Value: 5/4 02:59:43 what's truncate vs floor? 03:00:12 rudybot: (floor -1.2) 03:00:12 cky: ; Value: -2.0 03:00:17 rudybot: (truncate -1.2) 03:00:17 cky: ; Value: -1.0 03:00:30 Thus, floor rounds down; truncate rounds towards 0. 03:00:39 oh XD 03:00:52 ok, thx 03:00:55 :-D 03:01:24 -!- GoKhlaYe1 [~GoKhlaYeh@235.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:02:51 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:03:55 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-26-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 03:08:23 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:08:53 dnolen_ [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:09:22 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 03:11:33 -!- dnolen_ [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:33 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:29 -!- Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:16:10 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:28 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 03:21:01 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:01 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-26-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:25:59 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-26-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 03:27:06 >> +inf.0 03:27:11 << +inf.0 03:27:27 racket: +inf.0 03:28:07 adu: ? 03:28:29 can't seem to find any bots today 03:28:44 rudybot: (+ +inf.0 -inf.0) 03:28:44 cky: ; Value: +nan.0 03:28:56 ah 03:29:16 adu: Lemme guess. You're not a tab-completer, are you? 03:29:32 I am 03:29:35 Because otherwise you'd have noticed there's no one named racket. :-P 03:29:50 heh 03:30:06 I was wondering why my screen beeped 03:30:23 cky: so how are you? 03:30:55 I'm all right. Trying to do work, but I should really spend time with my wife since it's her birthday. 03:32:00 Quadrescence: back, what's up? 03:32:33 jcowan, I was wondering if I could access the source to the draft of R7RS to fix many typographical issues 03:32:48 yes, absolutely, are you set up for PMs here? 03:32:53 yes 03:34:17 There is another ongoing effort to clean up the appearance as opposed to the text. 03:34:45 jcowan, yes, I would correct the typography, none of the content 03:37:34 Quadrescence: You got the two PMs? 03:37:45 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-26-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:37:46 yes 03:39:57 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:33 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 03:44:25 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 03:56:30 -!- sharkbird [~user@sharkbird.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:27 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 04:04:08 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:04:56 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:40 jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:11:46 new2net [~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net] has joined #scheme 04:13:28 Hello, I used scheme once before... I think I used "hamster", does that sound right? 04:13:56 *new2net* is a novice still 04:15:19 new2net: I've never heard of hamster, but what do I know. 04:15:29 I don't think so 04:15:36 cky, nah.. i remember you helped me before 04:15:59 Oh really? Nice. :-) 04:17:19 is Clojure one? I left here under the impression that there is no official "scheme" implementation, but scheme in general refers to languages built on top of lisp, is that how it goes? 04:17:40 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:55 Nope. 04:18:12 So, Common Lisp, Scheme, and Clojure are three totally different Lisp dialects. 04:18:29 (There are many more dialects, but those are three well-known ones.) 04:18:42 These languages really aren't related to each other very much at all. 04:20:12 Add Emacs Lisp to that list. 04:20:40 They have a lot of superficial common factors from a shared history, but they take very different approaches to that history. 04:20:45 Indeed. 04:20:57 Well... I'm trying to run MiniKanren (a framework for constraint logic pro-gramming (CLP) in Scheme). So ... I need Scheme... where is it 04:21:21 People often say, "they all have parens, surely they must be similar?". And I say, "Perl and JavaScript all have curly braces, surely they must be similar?". ;-) 04:21:29 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:33 There are many Scheme implementations, which in turn share a common core, but which take different approaches to implementation (speed, space, ease of debugging, etc.) 04:21:58 What jcowan said. However, if you want a Scheme that runs miniKanren, then the "many" diminishes quite a bit. :-) 04:21:59 is anyone familiar with the inversion counting algorithm which is based on merge sort? i made merge sort, but if i can't have state, how do i count those merges that i have to count? 04:22:14 steampunkey: Use an accumulator. 04:22:33 cky: i know about the accumulator, but i don't see how i can use it here. 04:22:40 cky, will chez-scheme work? 04:22:56 new2net: No idea. 04:23:18 steampunkey: Make your merge function take the current count. When recursing, pass in the appropriate new count. 04:24:26 cky: earlier steps depend on the result of those that they call. so i can't just return a number at the end. i need to return a list at the end, so that i can concatenate it up front. 04:24:29 i hope i make sense 04:24:40 cky, how should I try and figure out which one I need? 04:28:00 cky, OH i found it at the VERY BOTTOM of the documentation. " ... tested on ... ": Petite Chez Scheme, Chez Scheme, SCM, Gauche. 04:28:07 cky: let's simplify: let's say i have a list in which i need to replace occurences of elt1 with elt2. however, i need to count how many were replaced. how do i do that? 04:28:25 steampunkey: Yes, you can return the list _and_ the number. 04:28:39 cky: in another list, eh? 04:28:44 steampunkey: Scheme has a feature called multiple-values, which you can use, though in this case, returning a pair is fine, too. 04:29:00 ok, i'm thinking... 04:30:19 [061219] since when all functions are reversible? 04:30:19 [061416] dualbus<< :) guessing, 1925 ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation 04:30:19 [061732] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6der%27s_equation 04:37:13 I made a list that looks like this: ((1 2) . 3) ; I didn't put the dot there. What does it mean? 04:37:33 new2net: it means it is not a proper list. 04:37:54 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:37:58 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:38:04 new2net: a proper list is '() or a pair whose CDR is a proper list. 04:38:59 new2net: when you see the dotted pair notation when printing a list, the terminating pair has a CDR that is some atom not '() 04:39:01 in this case 3 04:39:04 qu1j0t3, which part is the CDR? (1 2) or 3? 04:39:23 (1 2) is the CAR 04:39:57 new2net: compare: 04:39:59 #;1> (cons '(1 2) 3) 04:40:01 ((1 2) . 3) 04:40:03 #;2> (list '(1 2) 3) 04:40:05 ((1 2) 3) 04:40:42 what does ' mean? 04:41:07 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #scheme 04:41:10 steampunkey: Have a look at this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128564 04:41:13 futilius [~futilius_@99-174-253-193.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:41:24 it means QUOTE, it is syntax for getting a literal list 04:41:41 rudybot: (define (replace lst old new k) (cond ((null? lst) (k (quote ()) 0)) ((equal? (car lst) old) (replace (cdr lst) old new (lambda (res count) (k (cons new res) (+ count 1))))) (else (replace (cdr lst) old new (lambda (res count) (k (cons (car lst) res) count)))))) 04:41:41 cky: Done. 04:41:45 new2net: sounds like you need to pick up a Scheme text and get comfortable with some basics 04:41:52 new2net: there are a bunch online 04:41:52 qu1j0t3, make the 2nd one without using (list 04:41:53 rudybot: (replace '(1 2 3 2 3 2 3 4 5) 2 100 values) 04:41:53 cky: ; Value: (1 100 3 100 3 100 3 4 5) 04:41:54 cky: ; Value#2: 3 04:42:00 rudybot: (replace '(1 2 3 2 3 2 3 4 5) 3 100 values) 04:42:00 cky: ; Value: (1 2 100 2 100 2 100 4 5) 04:42:01 cky: ; Value#2: 3 04:42:04 rudybot: (replace '(1 2 3 2 3 2 3 4 5) 5 100 values) 04:42:05 cky: ; Value: (1 2 3 2 3 2 3 4 100) 04:42:06 cky: ; Value#2: 1 04:42:11 new2net: good question :) (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '()))) 04:42:46 new2net: oops, mistake. that's a simple list (1 2 3) 04:42:59 oh, a bug in your code :( 04:44:25 steampunkey: I deliberately used a CPS style so you can use "values" (to return the results as multiple values), "list" (to return the results in a list), or "cons" (to return the results in a pair). 04:44:37 rudybot: (replace '(1 2 3 2 3 2 3 4 5) 3 100 cons) 04:44:37 cky: ; Value: ((1 2 100 2 100 2 100 4 5) . 3) 04:44:40 rudybot: (replace '(1 2 3 2 3 2 3 4 5) 3 100 list) 04:44:41 cky: ; Value: ((1 2 100 2 100 2 100 4 5) 3) 04:44:52 rudybot: (replace '(1 2 3 2 3 2 3 4 5) 3 100 vector) 04:44:52 cky: ; Value: #((1 2 100 2 100 2 100 4 5) 3) 04:45:00 new2net: ((1 2) 3) is made by (cons (cons 1 (cons 2 '())) (cons 3 '())) 04:45:01 steampunkey: Hopefully you get the idea. :-) 04:45:30 new2net: but this isn't very clear exposition of how lists work, which is why i recommend a text with diagrams etc. 04:46:34 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:46:45 http://cloud9.hedgee.com/priv/expr1.png <-- diagram ;-) 04:46:52 (Albeit not of the particular expression above.) 04:47:27 so it's a linked list? 04:48:00 new2net: Yes. 04:48:17 cky, then if I make a list improper I can only fix it by making a new list from the proper parts of the old list? 04:49:33 new2net: What're you tryign to do? 04:49:35 *trying 04:49:44 break sha256 using MiniKanren 04:51:50 tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:52:09 new2net: :-O 04:52:16 Wow, that's hardcore. 04:52:31 You know that that effectively amounts to brute-force, right? 04:52:33 SpacePoet [~StarPoet@ppp-124-122-160-209.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #scheme 04:52:36 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:52:46 in SICP the author uses 'done is some procedures 04:52:55 any reason why? 04:53:13 should've left it at merge sort and used a more practical language for the other thing :-/ 04:54:23 -!- crunchybumble [~chatzilla@adsl-99-31-15-148.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:24 cky, if you try to break it like a brute then it's brute force, if you know something extra then it's not brute force (but can still take a while) 04:54:32 -!- jhemann [~Jason@99.31.15.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:48 SpacePoet: Example? 04:55:16 steampunkey: Are you trolling? What do you mean by "more practical language"? 04:56:29 cky: yes, so far i've been participating normally, but suddenly i'm a troll now. 04:57:06 steampunkey: It's just that "more practical language" has a rather negative undertone. 04:57:19 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:57:19 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:57:35 cky, qu1j0t3, I went with SCM :) thank you all for the refresher on lists 04:57:42 steampunkey: I mean, if by "more practical language" you mean something like Haskell or Clojure, okay, I understand. But I had a feeling you were more thinking along the lines of PHP or Python. 04:57:49 cky: it's supposed to. I need to add up the second element of each of the two lists returned by two function calls. meanwhile, i have to pass their their first elements to another function, but also the result of the addition as well. 04:57:52 (Yes, that last comment is a troll.) 04:58:25 steampunkey: What are you trying to do? 04:58:34 i told you what. 04:58:56 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:17 *cky* does not know what inversion counting algorithm is. Maybe I should Google. 04:59:37 without a variable, i'd have to call the same branch 2 times (once to get the first, once to get the second argument from the list it returns), and likewise for the other branch. 05:00:05 let me substitute the call to merge 05:00:28 with its return value: (list1 list2 nr) 05:00:50 wait 05:00:55 just (list nr) 05:02:29 Does this question sound like what you're trying to do? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/337664/counting-inversions-in-an-array 05:02:40 If so, I can use that as a reference for writing a Scheme version. 05:03:03 but i need to call (another_function (car (list1 nr1)) (car (list2 nr2)) (+ (cdr (list2 nr1)) (cdr (list3 nr2)))) 05:04:00 cky: that should be it 05:04:04 but it's not worth it. 05:04:44 should've used C or python, and be done with it 5 hours ago 05:05:01 Heh. 05:05:44 I find that most of the Scheme-haters are Python- or PHP-lovers, hence my previous pointed comment. :-) 05:05:47 i love scheme for its syntactic simplicity, but this simply shouldn't be this hard 05:06:37 considering that haskell is purely functional (as well as Scheme?), i'm guessing suffers from the same problems? 05:07:17 Scheme has mutations. 05:07:25 Haskell has monads. :-) 05:07:44 perhaps i should learn monads then 05:07:51 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 05:07:54 Sure. :-) 05:08:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-42.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:08:27 Although for this particular problem, I think monads are not an appropriate solution approach. 05:08:45 i like my functional languages pure. and i like my imperative languages impure 05:09:06 Hahahahahaha. 05:09:21 steampunkey: what exactly are you talking about with the lists, calling, branches, ...? Could we get more of an example? 05:09:23 This is why I like Ruby, because it really messes up with your function/imperative classification. ;-) 05:09:51 Ruby can be both functional _and_ imperative, though I tend to write Ruby as pure-functional as I can. 05:09:53 cky: yeah, Ruby is nice. 05:09:55 (I might have came in after) 05:10:41 futilius: basically, i should use an accumulator, and have a call that looks like this: (another_function (car (list1 nr1)) (car (list2 nr2)) (+ (cdr (list2 nr1)) (cdr (list3 nr2)))) 05:11:25 what is the context? 05:11:36 futilius: where each "(car (listX nrX)" is actually the return value returned by/substituting the call to another function 05:11:40 it looks to me like you can probably avoid code that looks like that 05:12:05 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.87.81] has joined #scheme 05:12:34 futilius: and it's a simplification. so basically, repeated calls, which, although it would probably be replaced by the first value procured, is non-the less a pain to write and look at. 05:13:20 futilius: i need vars :-( 05:13:31 yeah I can't tell what you're trying to do 05:13:58 what does repeated calls mean? or first value procured? and what was it that the code you wrote was supposed to do? 05:14:45 there are often places where if you come from a C or python perspective you would want to use mutable variable when you don't really need them for a clean solution 05:16:59 futilius: i made a merge sort, and now i'd want to modify it to be inversion counter. for that, all i need to do is to, in the "merge" step of the algorithm, increment a variable when there's a value in one of the... meh, do you know the algorithm? 05:17:47 ok 05:17:57 are you talking about the problem in cky's link? 05:19:39 *value, not a variable. when there's in the right list a value less than a value from a left list. nvm, i just need to increment an accumulator. i can't do that without two calls to the function which returns both one of the lists, and a partial accumulator value. one call to each function is to pass along the lists, the other is to add up their accumulators into one that will also be passed 05:20:21 futilius: yes, that is the same problem, although I am in no way related to that post, cky just posted it here. 05:21:24 i simply can't do it without two calls. i need two things, therefore i need two calls. 05:23:41 SICP 2.5.1 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-18.html in omst of the codeblocks they finish with 'done 05:23:46 i can't understand why 05:24:16 steampunkey: I can't really tell from your description what approach you're trying to solve that problem, or what the problem is (two calls for two things? like what?) 05:25:51 SpacePoet: looks like those are interactive functions. you type in "install-rational-package " and it says "done" instead of "{Unspecifc}" as it would if the 'done were left out. that's about it 05:26:05 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:26:09 doesn't do anything 05:28:23 futilius: a function returns a list and an accumulator. those are the two things. i need to call the function with two sets of arguments, then add one of the returned things by both together. then, i have to pass the result of the operation to yet another call to some function, which takes not only the said result, but also the other returned thing - the list - of each of the results corresponding to each of the arguments (1 and 05:28:31 futilius: can you follow? 05:31:03 ruby style: CAN_HAZ_LISTS_AND_RESULT(function(arg1)[0], function(arg2)[0], (function(arg1)[1]+function(arg2)[1])) <-- get it? 05:31:57 you would make each function(argx) call once 05:32:27 so what function returns is (LIST, ACCUMULATOR), i need to pass along each list from each of the calls, and then have another identical call just to add up the accumulators. 05:32:42 whether you do it with returning multiple values, or returning a list, or CPS-style (where instead of returning two things you take a function that takes two arguments and call that) 05:33:47 if you're returning a list, you use a LET, the other cases (multiple values and CPS) look pretty similar: you have a (lambda (ls acc) blah blah...) 05:34:19 let = state, lambda = o.O 05:34:40 let doesn't introduce state. what is o.O? 05:35:21 I think you just want let 05:35:26 steampunkey: Sounds like what you want to do is a named let. 05:36:12 (As far as keeping the accumulated value is concerned.) 05:36:29 steampunkey: if you create a variable with let, but never SET! it, there is no state there 05:36:46 (mutable) 05:36:48 :-) 05:36:59 how would that work? 05:37:18 the set! = mutable state part is obvious, but I think you mean you're avoiding mutable state 05:38:17 steampunkey: you give a name to the value of function(arg1) and use the name instead of calling function twice 05:38:51 steampunkey: (let ((res1 (func arg1)) (res2 (func arg2))) (can-haz-lists-and-result (car res1) (car res2) (+ (cdr res1) (cdr res2)))) 05:38:53 :-D 05:39:08 jhemann [~Jason@adsl-99-31-15-148.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:39:11 jhemann_ [~Jason@99.31.15.148] has joined #scheme 05:39:22 hm... 05:39:32 yeah. and the important thing to know is that in cky's code (^) there are no (mutable) variables involved 05:39:37 -!- jhemann_ [~Jason@99.31.15.148] has quit [Client Quit] 05:40:15 ahhh 05:40:18 as in sigh 05:40:28 but thanks. 05:40:31 Heh. 05:40:43 you don't want to name the result of expressions? 05:40:48 try using forth instead of scheme 05:40:52 Lol. 05:42:43 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:43:19 futilius: what about forth? 05:43:27 steampunkey: Forth is stack-based. 05:43:37 So you can simply dup the stack elements to keep references to the same object. 05:43:41 you can do what you seem to want. write function(arg1) once, calling it once, and use the result in two different places 05:43:55 cky: oh, right. 05:44:35 but seriously, using let to name the result of an expression so you don't have to calculate it twice, that is about as functional as it gets 05:44:38 futilius: i guess i'll use let if i decide to finish this in scheme 05:44:38 trust me on this 05:44:51 steampunkey: What futilius said. Using LET is fully functional. 05:45:02 LET _is_ pure-functional, if you don't use SET!. 05:45:13 -!- SpacePoet [~StarPoet@ppp-124-122-160-209.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310010446]] 05:45:24 Well, and if you don't call other side-effecting functions along the way. :-) 05:45:28 cky: futilius: shouldn't functional mean you call the same thing twice, but it only gets evaluated once, and only substituted the second time? 05:46:12 steampunkey: That's not how Scheme works. It doesn't know that your functions are all pure-functional, so it can't take that kind of shortcut. 05:46:14 steampunkey: you can't do that in scheme because scheme _has_ side effects so func could have side effects 05:46:22 What futilius said. 05:46:44 cky: futilius: see, i thought it knew that. 05:46:58 no, i mean... brain doesn't work.. 05:47:04 i mean i thought it was pure functional 05:47:08 as opposed to common lisp 05:47:09 steampunkey: Nope. 05:47:21 steampunkey: It encourages a functional style of programming, but it's definitely not pure. 05:47:29 is haskell pure? 05:47:33 haskell is pure 05:48:27 See, someone needs to make an S-expression version of Haskell with a Schemey macro system. 05:50:09 ooor C like! ;-) 05:50:34 *cky* pukes 05:50:49 *steampunkey* remembers xkcd's "father's parentheses" 05:52:04 one thing i don't understand: how can mit's (gnu) scheme be single-platform? *shakes head* 06:08:22 -!- futilius [~futilius_@99-174-253-193.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:09:11 -!- wollw [~davidsher@75-101-85-170.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:17:27 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-103-221.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 06:19:04 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-93.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:27:22 ssbr_ [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has joined #scheme 06:33:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.198.35] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:37:38 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:49:26 -!- new2net [~new2net@unaffiliated/new2net] has left #scheme 07:03:09 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:03:09 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:03:09 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 07:07:03 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-57-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:14:10 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 07:14:10 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:14:10 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:23:01 -!- mark_weaver [~user@c-98-216-245-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:26:28 I have a question 07:26:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128566 07:26:51 every scheme I try this in, I get 4, is that correct? 07:30:47 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 07:31:30 cky: that's what lisk and liskell are 07:43:58 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-228-27.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 07:48:07 -!- jhemann [~Jason@adsl-99-31-15-148.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:49:08 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-93.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 07:50:32 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53:04 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 07:56:50 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 07:57:39 jhemann [~Jason@adsl-99-31-15-148.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:05:07 tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has joined #scheme 08:05:29 cky: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128567 08:05:50 cky: too late, but it works :-) :-/ 08:09:02 -!- steampunkey [4e868b2b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.139.43] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:13:09 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-93.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:14 adu: pretty sure that's right, closures essentially close over the identifier's address rather than the value 08:14:51 maybe that's too low-level way of putting it... 08:16:26 what is the advantage of a pure functional language? 08:17:41 lcc: You get to brag to functional programmers about how awesome your language is, and they won't poo-poo you. 08:18:15 no 08:18:37 lcc: ssbr_: "referential transparency" 08:19:00 adu: "The advantage of pure functional programming languages is that they have pure functions"? 08:19:34 well, that's kind of obvious 08:19:40 Any language can have referential transparency. Doesn't have to be pure for that. As a matter of fact, it's really _really_ interesting to try to define an impure language in which purity is typed (effect typing) 08:19:48 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:17 like GCC's __attribute__((pure))? 08:20:20 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 08:20:28 lcc: the real advantage to purely functional programs is that they are _incredibly_ easy to reason about. Particularly in the field of PL research, it's very handy. Problems that are nearly impossible otherwise, can become trivial in a purely-functional context 08:20:56 lcc: for example, it becomes trivial to define e.g. certain subsets of the language which are not only pure, but also "total" (i.e. always halt) 08:21:16 one such subset being primitive recursive functions 08:21:51 adu: I'm not familiar with gcc's support for purity. :( 08:22:23 I do know that some systems programming languages (GCC, I guess, but also D and ATS) try to support pure functions and even type them properly. 08:22:36 although nobody does proper typing of side-effects 08:23:39 didn't Disciple try that? 08:24:00 ssbr_: did you look at my paste? 08:24:14 adu: apparently so, yes, it does 08:24:46 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:25:02 adu: yes, that is what you should get. 08:25:08 (4) 08:25:22 I've been writing a scheme, and I just implemented (define) and when I noticed it did that, I checked racket and chibi... 08:25:56 It's the natural behavior. The environment of a closure isn't copied 08:26:17 until now I've been under the impression that (define) was supposed to error if the variable exists in the environment 08:26:38 Ohhh, that bit. 08:27:08 I don't know Scheme well enough to say whether that's right or not. I still get surprised by when my Scheme tells me I can't put (define)s here. 08:27:09 but it doesn't say that anywhere, in fact the standards seem to require no error 08:27:24 Well. That should answer your question then! 08:27:38 wingo [~wingo@32.pool85-50-240.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 08:27:39 also, it allows you to redefine builtins 08:27:56 quite nice actually 08:28:05 Makes sense to me. Some schemes let you redefine what numbers mean. 08:28:19 (hiya there racket) 08:30:00 set! errors if the variable doesn't exist, but define doesn't error 08:30:18 maybe it was just my intuition working badly 08:30:33 maybe. 08:30:48 I think of define like Python's assignment, and set! like C's assignment. 08:31:00 jhemann_ [~Jason@adsl-99-31-15-148.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:31:12 that makes sense 08:33:15 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-251.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:35:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:29 -!- jhemann [~Jason@adsl-99-31-15-148.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:36:51 I just noticed another problem with my define 08:37:22 (define x (define (f x) (* x x)) (f 2)) assigns 4 to x 08:38:07 that's some messed up code. 08:38:22 indeed, but it works in my scheme 08:38:26 adu: there was some discussion on the racket list recently about such forms... 08:38:30 it doesn't work in any other scheme 08:39:00 adu: most thoughts went in the direction that there is no reason to disallow it IIRC. 08:39:45 because define can take a body if the first argument is a list, I just wrap whatever is there in both cases with (begin ) which inadvertently made this behaviour 08:43:36 -!- iffsid [~user@c-98-222-193-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:44:26 adu: but lambda has an implicit begin already... 08:45:52 hmm, maybe I should disallow it 08:46:24 it ends up puting both x and f in the interaction environment 08:49:12 adu: in R6RS this is illegal both in libraries and top level programs, but works on most REPLs 08:51:23 madmuppet006 [~panzer@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 08:53:50 adu: re your very first question (about redefining g): the REPL is almost always more lenient than when running a file directly. 08:54:59 I see 09:00:16 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has left #scheme 09:11:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-42.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:20:54 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-93.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 09:23:45 Well this is nice. Apparently in racket these two structures aren't equal? http://codepad.org/DwHXmtpx -- what do I do to test that they're equal the "right way"? 09:24:19 (this is a test case failure :/) 09:27:07 ssbr_: that paste contains too little information to tell I think 09:27:33 hkBst: well, surely we agree that the structs have identical structure 09:28:03 ssbr_: a likely cause though is that identical structs in different modules aren't equal unless they are prefab 09:28:31 Hagh. 09:28:49 well, what would be the right way to compare these structs structure? 09:29:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-42.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 09:29:38 ssbr_: the right way would be to factor the definition of the struct into a module that's imprted by other modules that use it I believe. 09:29:48 hkBst: Oh. Well, I do that. 09:29:59 let me put up the source code 09:30:12 ssbr_: or make the struct prefab 09:31:33 I don't know what that is 09:31:40 also, my drracket is blowing up 09:32:01 this is ridiculous why do I have to deal with such terrible software 09:32:03 " jhemann: it's a bug in an easter egg for the day -- if you change the date it should work." 09:34:30 http://bpaste.net/show/25898/ 09:34:32 heh, how unfortunate 09:35:01 eh, syntax-highlighted: http://bpaste.net/show/25899/ 09:35:29 this was me fooling around trying to figure out how to update a branch of a tree without mutating the original tree 09:35:56 I know people have solved this problem, I'm just too stupid to have thought to check what they did before thinking of things :/ 09:37:30 Oh, and if you have any suggestions for how to fix my +## macro, I'd also be much obliged 09:38:13 (it does the same (ish) as C's ##) 09:38:35 -!- madmuppet006 [~panzer@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:39:35 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-228-27.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:41:26 ssbr_: http://bpaste.net/show/25900/ 09:42:30 hkBst: OK, you got me. 09:42:41 ssbr_: I'll have a look at your macro after I get back from lunch if noone else has 09:43:47 this is weird. but OK. I've got no problems using prefab. 09:43:56 hkBst: thanks! 09:54:22 -!- floater [~e30dd50ec@nude.lesbianbath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:54:27 (the problem, for anyone else that might be interested in helping, is that because I'm using syntax-case, I can't use functions. Not sure how to work around this; and functions are pretty great so I'd like to use some) 10:03:17 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.93.125] has joined #scheme 10:08:22 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 10:11:50 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 10:16:27 -!- jhemann_ [~Jason@adsl-99-31-15-148.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:28 jhemann__ [~Jason@adsl-99-186-239-106.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 10:23:06 is there a way to make scheme purely functional? 10:25:21 lcc: ignore all the bits with exclamation marks 10:25:34 and/or take an undergraduate level course in scheme taught by a professor that doesn't know scheme 10:25:44 (or even some professors that do know scheme!) 10:26:09 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:28:38 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 10:34:37 bitonic [~Francesco@93-40-133-15.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 10:34:37 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:49 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 10:38:04 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:38:30 ssbr_: if you want to use a function in a macro, then you have to make it available at the macro phase. You can use define-for-syntax instead of define to do that: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/define.html#%28form._%28%28lib._racket/private/base..rkt%29._define-for-syntax%29%29 10:38:36 http://tinyurl.com/87xlz9b 10:40:46 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 10:41:31 hkBst: Aha! Alright, thank you. :) 10:44:27 tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has joined #scheme 10:44:37 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:49:42 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 10:53:07 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:55:10 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:56:45 masm [~masm@bl17-192-238.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:06:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.76.228] has joined #scheme 11:06:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.76.228] has quit [Changing host] 11:06:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 11:15:21 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 11:23:13 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26:21 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:26:30 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping 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seconds] 14:03:59 does anyone know an implementation that wraps poll/select in a subprocess API? or has any means of doing asynchronous I/O from subprocesses? 14:04:31 I want to write a generalized filter across stdout and stderr of a subprocess 14:10:07 well, scsh has one which is nice. http://www.scsh.net/docu/html/man-Z-H-4.html#node_idx_170 14:13:45 amoe: maybe Racket's events API? http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/reference/sync.html 14:16:20 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 14:19:02 asumu: hmm, thanks. that's interesting, maybe I can use (sync some-input-port), funky 14:22:47 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:23:34 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:23:52 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 14:24:25 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 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[~b_fin_g@r190-135-31-176.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:18:57 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:19:53 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-31-176.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 15:20:16 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:20:45 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:24:29 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 15:25:07 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 15:27:52 edw [~user@li246-89.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 15:29:08 I believe Dijkstra wrote a short paper (maybe it was Knuth) that discuseed the canonical way to test whether a number was in a range. Anyone off hand know what I'm talking about? 15:29:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.228] has joined #scheme 15:29:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.228] has quit [Changing host] 15:29:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 15:29:14 arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:30:02 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:32:12 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #scheme 15:36:04 edw: I bet Quadrescence does 15:38:10 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:40:09 estevocastro [estevocast@nat/hackerschool.com/x-yofeiwozfoqmkjze] has joined #scheme 15:44:09 fdaoud [~fdaoud@modemcable126.53-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:44:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.198.35] has joined #scheme 15:44:40 -!- fdaoud [~fdaoud@modemcable126.53-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #scheme 15:46:43 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB6516.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:49:37 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 15:50:28 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:43 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:51:43 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:56:29 edw: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html 15:57:54 ssbr_: Thanks! TimMc over in #clojure gave me that URL; I meant to cross post it here but my SSH connection shit the bed and I got distracted. 15:59:12 chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has joined #scheme 16:02:44 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:03:03 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:03:40 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:05:34 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:05:47 futilius [~futilius_@99-174-253-193.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:08:41 kuribas [~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 16:09:12 -!- chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has quit [Quit: be back later] 16:10:38 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10:39 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has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:27 -!- estevocastro [estevocast@nat/hackerschool.com/x-mbjhxnnhpqsgubrx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:30 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:16:49 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:45 kudkudyak [~user@94.72.145.198] has joined #scheme 18:19:36 -!- finnrobi [~robb@xvm-20-190.ghst.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:21:57 finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has joined #scheme 18:22:53 estevocastro [estevocast@nat/hackerschool.com/x-knriqvxsljlzirfv] has joined #scheme 18:23:54 is there a standard scheme function to get a string representation of an object, or is that implementation specific? (I don't mean the string, but the function called to obtain it) 18:24:37 the latter I think 18:25:22 thanks offby1 18:29:25 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:31:00 -!- confab_ [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:58 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-182-18.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 18:35:19 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-182-18.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:40:21 -!- samth_ is now known as samth 18:40:33 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 18:44:33 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:45:51 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:49:34 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 18:50:52 -!- Intensity [zQBDL3Up0A@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:31 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme 19:02:42 -!- 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[~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:41:11 bipt [~bpt@nom18954a.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #scheme 19:49:19 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-204-128.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:52:52 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-155-216.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 19:53:07 ecraven : (re Chez) arcfide might know 19:53:08 cky : like Liskell ? :) 19:54:27 langmart` [~user@host-68-169-155-216.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 19:55:36 -!- bipt [~bpt@nom18954a.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:57:08 -!- chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has quit [Quit: be back later] 19:57:10 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57:24 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 19:57:49 -!- wollw [~davidsher@75-101-85-170.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:58:14 -!- langmartin 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20:32:28 ijp: I couldn't find any haml parser so far. 20:33:30 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:34:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.198.35] has joined #scheme 20:34:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.198.35] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:52 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:41:11 does there exist a scheme to javascript compiler 20:41:28 too many 20:42:05 tell me more 20:42:25 http://hashcollision.org/whalesong/, http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/spock 20:42:40 I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of them offhand 20:42:48 cool, spock 20:43:04 fzzbt: http://ceaude.twoticketsplease.de/articles/a-survey-of-javascript-lisp-implementations.html 20:43:06 http://tinyurl.com/62ulrha 20:43:51 yes, that's much more comprehensive 20:43:53 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:46:20 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 20:51:30 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 20:51:56 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-98-223-204-153.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:04 -!- choas [~lars@p5795CAAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:54:16 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 20:54:52 you have my thanks 21:00:20 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:03:03 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 21:04:32 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 21:07:00 -!- tuubow_ [~adityavit@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:07:06 I shall play you the song of my people. 21:07:09 Get a job 21:07:10 Sha na na na na na na na na 21:07:10 Get a job 21:07:10 Sha na na na na na na na na 21:07:10 Wah yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip 21:07:11 Sha boom 21:07:32 *ijp* unplugs Qworkescence 21:08:40 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:10:08 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:12:00 Qworkescence++ 21:15:47 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-63-71.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 21:19:32 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:32 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:19:32 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 21:22:03 -!- estevocastro [estevocast@nat/hackerschool.com/x-uirvjhejwhpwzyfr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:22:59 estevocastro [estevocast@nat/hackerschool.com/x-qsppavwfrfymhnct] has joined #scheme 21:24:49 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-199.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:27:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:29:01 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:30:57 turbofai` [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:14 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:37 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-225.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:35:31 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 21:39:13 -!- turbofai` is now known as turbofail 21:44:03 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:47 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-225.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:17 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.87.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:35 hello. what is the best way to model an acyclic graph? i want to compute some expected times using montecarlo. I'm just asking for some high level guidelines for good implementation and minimal pain 21:47:03 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:48:18 -!- palach [~palach@93.175.8.83] has left #scheme 21:49:13 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-43-65.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:49:18 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-192.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:50:55 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-42.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:45 turbofai` [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:52:55 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-63-71.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:53:09 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:31 bfgun, do you want a DAG in its full generalization (i.e. with "shared" nodes) or do you just want trees? 21:57:15 Qworkescence, nevermind i found a way. i'll show you the code so you can criticize the style afterwards 21:57:52 no, let's start now. IT'S AWFUL!!!! OMG MY EYES!!!!!11111 21:58:01 *qu1j0t3* runz 22:02:17 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 22:04:46 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:06:35 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 22:07:28 srfi 27 == rng? 22:08:15 yes 22:09:54 rudybot: seen specbot 22:09:54 ski: No sign of specbot 22:11:57 -!- turbofai` is now known as turbofail 22:14:14 -!- Fare [~Fare@216.239.55.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:15:26 his "seen" database is only a few days old, alas 22:16:08 seen a sober irishman 22:16:11 rudybot: seen a sober irishman 22:16:11 ijp: expecting: seen 22:16:23 rudybot: seen a_sober_irishman 22:16:23 ijp: No sign of a_sober_irishman 22:16:30 *ijp* sighs 22:20:10 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:21:16 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:25:42 I've never seen a sober Irishman before! 22:25:47 ijp: you want birny over in #emacs 22:27:59 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #scheme 22:29:57 yes :( 22:35:59 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:37:49 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:19 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:38:46 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-192.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:40:39 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@176.14.94.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:19 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 22:54:25 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:57:15 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:39 "cons onto," "cons unto" or "cons on to?" 23:01:05 cons onto 23:01:09 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:01:24 unless you're talking about a David Mamet script, in which case it's just "cons" 23:02:42 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:02:45 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:03:46 -!- hopfrog [~bill@76.73.221.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:15 -!- estevocastro [estevocast@nat/hackerschool.com/x-qsppavwfrfymhnct] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:05:57 cons unto others as you would like others to cons unto you 23:06:36 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:07:18 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-192.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 23:07:38 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:12:33 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:21 offby1: With quotes, I take it. 23:15:26 turbofail: Primitively? 23:15:51 functionally, i would hope 23:16:11 i'm not too thrilled about the prospect of other people reaching into my internals and mutating things 23:17:07 -!- LeoNerd [~leo@cel.leonerd.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:18:42 confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:20:45 futilius [~futilius_@user-0c9h82b.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 23:25:16 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:28 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:26:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-192.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:16 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:32:29 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 23:33:59 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 23:37:10 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #scheme 23:39:47 noam [~noam@213.57.83.2] has joined #scheme 23:40:14 In kanren, you start to see things like: ((_.0 _.0)); it's a classic case of the abyss staring back at you. 23:42:43 hm, what is that in kanren ? 23:43:19 that's the internal way that it does metavariables 23:44:34 ski: Two reified (but unbound) variables. 23:45:39 what does "reified" mean here ? 23:48:05 what is the problem here: (define-syntax while 23:48:05 (syntax-rules () 23:48:06 ((while condition things ... ) 23:48:06 (do () ((not condition)) things ...)))) 23:48:35 (sorry if pasting code was inappropriate, if 4 lines are too much i'll use a paste next time) 23:49:28 bfgun: looks fine 23:50:14 it's not working properly: ((begin (define x 0) (while (< x 10) ((display x) (set! x (+ 1 x)))) 23:50:31 you shouldn't have ((display x) .. 23:50:37 just (display x) (set! x (+ .. 23:50:54 also ((begin ... looks wrong 23:50:57 (while (< x 10) (display x) (set! x (+ x 1))) <- this is what i'm executing 23:51:06 but that's not what you posted 23:51:17 -- after (set! x (+ 1 x)) 23:51:32 sorry i just tried posting from memory, that's what i put in the interp 23:51:43 err, after (set! x 0) 23:52:41 make a .scm file with your code in it 23:52:47 then you can load it into the interpreter 23:53:04 already did 23:54:20 i don't understand 23:54:26 what don't yoi understand? 23:54:31 if i use it directly in the interp it doesn't work, if i do it from the file it works 23:54:35 this makes no sense :( 23:54:48 you obviously typed it wrong into the interpreter 23:55:41 i want to believe you but i'm looking right at it and comparing char per char 23:55:44 *ski* wonders why bfgun doesn't do `(do ((x 0 (+ 1 x))) ((not (< x 10))) (display x))' instead 23:56:09 ski, i want to touch (several) external variables which are parametric on the function 23:56:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:57:06 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:59:15 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:59:18 bfgun : i hope you know that parameters are local .. 23:59:25 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:39 ski: To use kanren's jargon: "fresh"; i.e. the result of (reify-name 0). 23:59:44 ski, when i set! them?