00:06:01 I'm not sure why it's cognitive dissonance that cons requires its second argument to be a list 00:06:20 It's non traditional, sure, but it makes about as much sense as strign requireing all its arguments to be characters 00:08:40 And it has its added benefits in type safety, you can be sure that stuff isn't going to be wrong if you map it without going through the added complexity of having to verify the structure is a well formed list. 00:09:59 *ski* idly wonders whether Racket's immutable cons cells cache `list?' 00:10:15 ski, they do 00:10:59 so as to only cdr down to the end once? 00:11:07 rudybot: (define big (make-list 100000 values)) 00:11:07 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 00:11:08 *offby1: Done. 00:11:13 rudybot: (time (list? big)) 00:11:14 *offby1: ; Value: #t 00:11:15 *offby1: ; stdout: "cpu time: 0 real time: 1 gc time: 0\n" 00:11:16 So that list? is amortized constant time. 00:11:17 rudybot: (time (list? big)) 00:11:17 *offby1: ; Value: #t 00:11:18 *offby1: ; stdout: "cpu time: 0 real time: 0 gc time: 0\n" 00:11:37 am I even testing it the right way? 00:11:54 Yes, but I think your list wasn't big enough. And make-list might pre-populate those bits. 00:11:55 offby1 : no, i meant so as to compute it while constructing the cell 00:12:07 Ah, no, not while constructing. 00:12:55 rudybot: (define big (make-list 10000000 values)) 00:12:57 *offby1: error: evaluator: terminated (out-of-memory) 00:13:02 I knew that was gonna happen 00:13:25 Well, if 7 zeros was too many, and 5 zeros was too few... 00:13:42 I guess you'd better give up. There are no options left! 00:14:58 rudybot: (define (build n) (for/fold {[xs '()]} {[i (in-range n)]} (cons i xs))) 00:14:58 carleastlund: your sandbox is ready 00:14:59 carleastlund: Done. 00:15:17 rudybot: (define (check xs) (time (list? xs)) (time (list? xs))) 00:15:17 carleastlund: Done. 00:15:25 rudybot: (check (build 1000000)) 00:15:25 carleastlund: ; Value: #t 00:15:26 carleastlund: ; stdout: "cpu time: 4 real time: 5 gc time: 0\ncpu time: 4 real time: 3 gc time: 0\n" 00:15:41 Hmm. 00:16:29 rudybot: (define (check xs) (collect-garbage) (time (list? xs)) (collect-garbage) (time (list? xs))) 00:16:29 carleastlund: Done. 00:16:30 *ski* notes the use of curly brackets 00:16:39 rudybot: (check (build 1000000)) 00:16:43 carleastlund: ; Value: #t 00:16:44 carleastlund: ; stdout: "cpu time: 8 real time: 8 gc time: 0\ncpu time: 4 real time: 3 gc time: 0\n" 00:16:53 That's somewhat better. Maybe. 00:17:36 I use curly braces on special syntactic clauses (like the headers of for, the formals of lambda, etc.) and I have Emacs set up to indent braces specially. That way I don't have to add each and every new binding form to my .emacs file. 00:17:57 carleastlund : maybe you meant to build the list *after* calling `check' ? 00:18:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-85-102.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #scheme 00:18:19 (otherwise, why call it twice ?) 00:18:25 ski, no, intentionally before, I only want it built once. 00:18:38 The idea is that the first call to list? should be slow, the second fast. 00:18:58 ah, ok 00:19:05 *ski* misthought 00:19:18 rudybot: (check (build 2000000)) 00:19:20 carleastlund: error: evaluator: terminated (out-of-memory) 00:19:25 Well, darn. 00:21:19 rudybot: (define (slow n) (for {[i (in-range n)]} (check (build n)))) 00:21:19 carleastlund: your sandbox is ready 00:21:19 carleastlund: Done. 00:21:31 teach him to binary search 00:21:41 rudybot: (define (fast n) (define xs (build n)) (for {[i (in-range n)]} (check xs))) 00:21:42 carleastlund: Done. 00:21:50 rudybot: (slow 1000000) 00:21:50 carleastlund: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: check in module: 'program 00:22:03 Teach me to fish 00:22:21 member:rudybot: (define (build n) (for/fold {[xs '()]} {[i (in-range n)]} (cons i xs))) 00:22:27 darnit 00:22:36 rudybot: (define (build n) (for/fold {[xs '()]} {[i (in-range n)]} (cons i xs))) 00:22:37 carleastlund: Done. 00:22:57 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:23:02 rudybot: (define check list?) 00:23:02 carleastlund: Done. 00:23:10 rudybot: (time (slow 1000)) 00:23:10 carleastlund: ; stdout: "cpu time: 12 real time: 21 gc time: 0\n" 00:23:17 rudybot: (time (fast 1000)) 00:23:17 carleastlund: ; stdout: "cpu time: 0 real time: 1 gc time: 0\n" 00:23:22 THERE we go. 00:23:39 _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 00:23:40 hmm 00:23:43 Except... 00:23:47 Now I'm just timing cons. 00:24:17 Or, well, I could be. 00:24:43 I give up. I know it works that way, but it's not easy to demonstrate it. Benchmarks are bunk, etc., etc. 00:24:44 annodomini_ [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 00:24:44 -!- annodomini_ [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:24:44 annodomini_ [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 00:24:45 -!- annodomini_ [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:49 rudybot: (exit) 00:25:49 carleastlund: error: evaluator: terminated (exited) 00:26:31 oneirophren [oneirophre@91.196.91.40] has joined #scheme 00:26:58 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:2477:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 00:27:40 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:27:45 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 00:28:05 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:30:54 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:1440:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:30:55 -!- Lajjla is now known as Lajla 00:36:25 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-85-102.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:51:18 kpal [~kpal@5ac28f67.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 01:24:19 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:51 -!- Inode [~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:32:35 -!- masm [~masm@bl17-207-242.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:51:52 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:01:55 jcowan [~John@cpe-66-108-19-185.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:03:52 hoi 02:05:31 samth [~samth@12.130.123.209] has joined #scheme 02:05:40 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:10:24 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:12:40 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:13:37 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:24:02 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:25:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.132.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:26:30 -!- tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:29:26 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:33:18 MaskRay [~ray@unaffiliated/maskray] has joined #scheme 02:40:58 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:14bd:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 02:42:47 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-146.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:43:11 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-146.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:43:29 -!- samth [~samth@12.130.123.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:43:47 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:2477:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:43:48 -!- Lajjla is now known as Lajla 02:45:16 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:45:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:55:42 crdueck [~cdk@129-97-210-60.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 02:56:21 hello, i know i'm using racket code, but i figured it couldnt hurt to ask here. i'm trying to create a list given a bst and a range of number. all of the keys in the bst which are strictly in the range should be added to the list. i have the following code: http://www.pastie.org/3561606 as you can see i have a bunch of emptys cluttering up the lists. i could remove them using append but i am unfortunately limited to only using cons in this case. an 02:58:50 erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 03:01:06 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 03:03:14 -!- MaskRay [~ray@unaffiliated/maskray] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:54 crdueck : cut off at ".. limited to only using cons in this case. an" 03:05:24 case. any ideas/help 03:05:24 would be great, thanks 03:05:39 whoops, that was strange. but thats the end of it. 03:08:18 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 03:09:24 *ski* . o O ( long lines have been sent. characters missing at end. this is IRC. ) 03:10:20 crdueck : introduce an accumulator 03:12:30 ski: i thought about that, since i'm going to recursively call the function on each branch in the BST, how do i put all the accumulated keys together at the end without using append? 03:12:52 you put one recursive call inside the other 03:13:17 thus passing the result list from one of them to the other, so it can keep adding stuff to the front of that using `cons', before returning it 03:13:42 (this is a standard trick) 03:15:29 confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:18:04 so my accumulator function would take a BST and the accumulated list as arguments 03:18:18 where would the recursive call go? 03:18:38 continuations! 03:18:59 continuations have been invented at least 8 times, IIRC. 03:19:22 crdueck : i don't understand the question 03:19:53 you recursive call would go inside the body of the recursive function (the accumulative one) -- but i suspect you didn't mean this 03:21:08 you said to put a recursive call inside the other, so when i call my accumulative function: (acc bst lst), the other recursive call would be in the lst i'm guessing? ie (acc (bst-right bst) (acc (bst-left) lst)) 03:22:12 yeah, something like that 03:32:02 i have it now. thanks so much ski 03:37:24 bigfg [~b_fin_g@r186-48-223-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 03:40:41 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-48-239-9.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:41:46 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:34d3:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 03:45:02 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:14bd:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:45:04 -!- Lajjla is now known as Lajla 03:49:40 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-155-216.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:52:14 yw 03:56:43 -!- rudybot is now known as flabbergast 03:56:55 -!- flabbergast is now known as rudybot 03:58:39 -!- rudybot is now known as fruitbat 03:58:48 -!- fruitbat is now known as rudybot 04:00:32 m4burns [~m4burns@artificial-flavours.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 04:01:50 -!- rudybot is now known as powwow 04:02:03 -!- powwow is now known as rudybot 04:08:39 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 04:28:54 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-233.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:35:43 -!- bigfg is now known as bifg 04:35:46 -!- bifg is now known as bfig 04:40:46 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:3801:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 04:42:44 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-196-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:12 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:34d3:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44:14 -!- Lajjla is now known as Lajla 04:46:13 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-146.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:55:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-146.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:00:44 porco [~porco@125.33.88.49] has joined #scheme 05:02:00 samth [~samth@173-165-77-51-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 05:03:44 -!- porco [~porco@125.33.88.49] has quit [Client Quit] 05:04:29 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 05:06:26 drwho [~drwho@78-5.trans.uaf.edu] has joined #scheme 05:06:37 -!- GoKhlaYeh [~GoKhlaYeh@117.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:07:03 So Im now on spring break, and was looking into scheme/guile. Is this reccomended to a "releatively new" individual to hacking. (A little Python, and even less C exp) 05:12:00 youlysses: Yeah, go for it. There are a bunch of useful information links in the topic. 05:14:19 Yeah, im glad that there seems to be some very good documentation/tuts out there, because I know NO ONE personally that knows any dialect of lisp... :P (Heard nothing but good things though!) 05:16:44 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:24 Scheme is the worst choice for a first language ever because after scheme no other language will make sense and will appear to be designed asininely for no reason! 05:21:46 It's like growing up with the metci system, arriving in America one day and be like 'Why are there 12 inches in a foot and not just 10 again?' 05:24:26 ...Lol? I geh the basic logic of languages like C & Python, but yeah I heard its a whole new way of thinking! And believe me, no idea why us Yanks dont use the metric system. We're the hipster of the world, I swear... 05:25:25 -!- samth [~samth@173-165-77-51-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:26:43 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@fl-67-233-16-36.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:26:45 porco [~porco@125.33.88.49] has joined #scheme 05:26:47 leo2007 [~leo@114.249.196.165] has joined #scheme 05:32:01 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 05:32:44 youlysses, well, scheme makes sense because it makes sense 05:32:50 python and C make sense because people are used to silly stuff. 05:33:03 In notation, in semantics, in everything. 05:33:31 Standard contemporary mathematical textbook notation is just something that has been evolved over senturies, it makes no sense. 05:33:54 On multiple levels it's very needlessly complicated and often ambiguous 05:35:59 Well isnt C or languages like it essential when performance is really important? Isnt lisp interpreted, or am I mistaken? (If so, why hasnt there been a lisp like compiled language made? (Or is there...?)) 05:36:34 most lisps these days are compiled and _then_ interpreted 05:36:49 I'd start with guile -- I say that because that was my first scheme :) 05:37:02 plus it's having a nice renaissance now 05:37:25 Guile was my first Scheme implementation too. :-D 05:38:15 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-146.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:39:35 :) 05:40:32 -!- porco [~porco@125.33.88.49] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:41:29 nickdurfe [~ND@ip68-107-34-177.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 05:43:15 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:206c:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 05:44:03 Though, I dont get what it's meant by being compiled then interpreted... 05:45:31 Guile uses a bytecode interpreter like Java (in older implementations). 05:45:47 So it compiles Scheme into bytecode, and then interprets the bytecode. 05:46:42 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:3801:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:46:43 -!- Lajjla is now known as Lajla 05:48:22 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:53:05 Asphodelia [~delia@unaffiliated/asphodelia] has joined #scheme 05:53:25 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:15 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:01:13 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 06:01:59 -!- nickdurfe [~ND@ip68-107-34-177.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:04:43 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 06:07:30 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:08:32 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-235-213.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 06:09:30 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:09:56 *offby1* nods gravely 06:10:00 wot jcowan said 06:12:00 youlysses: there are compilers for Scheme. For example, look up the Stalin compiler, which is an extremely optimizing compiler. 06:12:35 (the Wikipedia entry has some info on it) 06:13:39 I currently have guile installed, which I assume has a scheme compiler? 06:14:25 I am reading the scheme wiki now, atm. 06:14:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@69.212.127.115] has joined #scheme 06:15:43 The Guile compiler is, as I said, a bytecode compiler, like Python's. So it's not a separate program and it doesn't produce separate executables. There are, as asumu notes, stand-alone compilers, not Guile, for Scheme. 06:17:30 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #scheme 06:18:03 youlysses, well, technically, your CPU is an interpreter of assembly. 06:18:26 A compiler is a program or some abstract mechanism that translates one programming langauge into another if you will 06:18:33 as in C, ior Scheme to assembly, in practice. 06:18:45 An interpreter is anythingh that runs a program written in such a language. 06:18:54 Most modern interpreters internally have many compilation layers 06:19:18 Parsing itself could be seen as a compilation, you take the text form and 'compile' it to the syntax tree. 06:20:37 Sorry jcowan, I forgot to mention that the reason I initally left the room was because my system froze and I had to force it to restart. You must have answered when my screen was stuck ...? 06:21:04 Guile uses a bytecode interpreter like Java (in older implementations). 06:21:05 So it compiles Scheme into bytecode, and then interprets the bytecode. 06:22:36 Oh ok. But the point is that Scheme can in theroy be quite fast, if compiled? 06:23:03 In theroy anything can be if you invent a smart enough compiler 06:23:36 THere's also this obscure compiler Stalin (it brutally optimizes) which takes like 2 years to compile anything which produces more optimized stuff than most hand written C stuff. 06:27:05 Well again, to my admitadley very understanding, the point of something like guile is to work with C, and Scheme to not be used in that which needs much coputation (performance), right? 06:27:28 *computation 06:27:31 Yah,s cheme is not designed as a language which can be very straightforwardly compiled. 06:27:54 What I'm trying to say is that the compiler and the time you're willing to spend on letting it optimize is more important than the langauge itself in the end. 06:28:30 Thats abit of an odd thought. :P 06:29:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:30:58 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 06:31:08 It is, if you're willing to let a compiler take long enough to find every possible way to optimize it would generate very efficient object code for every language. 06:32:58 But like you said, it'd take dramaticaly longer though? 06:34:33 it depends whatever internal representation you handle as a compiler (for function calls) and how you present the language 06:34:40 stack vs continuations 06:35:09 I have SO much to learn ... :D 06:35:12 on the other hand, all data structures can be massively optimized if you know the program well 06:35:25 (if the compiler knows how the program uses the structures) 06:36:19 simple optimizations: map and cata-fusion 06:36:33 (err, fold and cata-fusion) 06:44:20 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 06:51:05 youlysses, in practice it would take longer to get the same quality of assembly yeah. 06:51:22 jonrafkind, did you know that macbook wheels come in black these days? 06:51:40 -!- youlysses 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#scheme 16:32:16 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.40.170] has joined #scheme 16:34:36 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has joined #scheme 16:38:22 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:50:01 hopfrog [~bill@76.73.221.195] has joined #scheme 16:55:59 Hi, I'm working on a proposal for a MSc thesis project and I'm wondering if there are any known implementations of a (VM with) tracing JIT for lisp/scheme? 16:56:30 Or maybe someone knows an interesting page/source for LISP implementation related projects? 16:56:32 iisjmii [~user@197-255.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #scheme 16:57:16 Does anybody know if Scheme supports something like Clojure's metadata? I could not find anything. (http://clojure.org/metadata) 16:58:07 Razz: racket has a JIT http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/performance.html#%28part._.J.I.T%29 16:59:14 rostayob: thx 17:08:42 Razz: Racket's JIT is AFAIK a conventional procedure-based one, not a tracing JIT. But it would be easy to make a basic Scheme interpreter in RPython. 17:09:08 jcowan: I'm actually thinking C and using partial evaluation to generate the compiler 17:09:09 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 17:09:22 Well, sure, if you *enjoy* pain. 17:10:28 jcowan: hehe, well it's an exploration of efficiency / speed / relative ease in developing a VM with a tracing JIT 17:10:38 confab_ [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:11:00 Hard to beat RPython for relative ease, so it would provide a baseline for speed comparisons. 17:12:07 Ofc. developing a JIT compiler from scratch is not an option, but if I could generate the compiler from the VM in some way or demonstrate a method that is easy to use compared to manual construction then it might show an interesting approach to VM development 17:12:13 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:1462:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 17:13:52 -!- confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:13:54 That's exactly what RPython provides: write an interpreter, decorate it with a few extra function calls: presto, automatic tracing JIT. 17:14:03 -!- confab_ is now known as confab 17:15:02 yeah, but not using partial evaluation and also, you need annotations, I would want to leave out the annotations completely just generate the JIT compiler for traces from the VM or a subset of the VM (for efficiency reasons) 17:15:19 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:38c1:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:19 -!- Lajjla is now known as Lajla 17:16:23 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.50.19] has joined #scheme 17:16:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:16:23 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 17:16:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.50.19] has quit [Changing host] 17:16:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 17:27:40 In general is there a *tracing JIT* for scheme/LISP? I'm having trouble finding any (scientific) literature ... 17:29:27 -!- confab [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:16 confab [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:37:35 -!- tupi [~david@177.31.11.142] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:41:06 HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82a9e3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:22 overflow_0f8b [~ea17b4b02@2a01:270:dd00:7700:404:dead:beef:cafe] has joined #scheme 17:41:37 hi, do you like programming ? 17:45:10 tokiya_ [~tokiya@210.24.42.190] has joined #scheme 17:46:15 Razz: I'm reasonably sure there is not. 17:47:07 jcowan: encouraging :-) 17:47:55 -!- tokiya [~tokiya@210.24.42.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:49:50 overflow_0f8b: From time to time, yes. 17:50:25 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:51:05 so, what is your opinion of some C macro hacks ? http://pastebin.com/Jjv1mfdS 17:51:27 woonie [~woonie@spnp240206.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 17:51:47 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:13 my opinion is "not relevant to scheme" 17:52:35 looks like scheme to me 17:53:07 does it do variable capture correctly? 17:53:16 I am guessing not 17:55:15 variable capture ? 17:55:44 think that makes lambda useful 17:55:54 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-127-115.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:56:05 well there is a lambda macro if you read it 17:56:16 yes it works. 17:56:46 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:56:53 this is only fix number of arguments for now 17:56:58 -!- iisjmii [~user@197-255.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:57:00 do you know variable capture 17:57:03 willing to impélement list functions 17:57:09 capture avoiding substitution 17:57:25 yes it does that 17:57:30 oh 17:57:41 I'n surprised 17:57:51 this is why its so ugly 17:57:52 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 17:57:58 cool 17:59:19 also the variable names can collide in C, so uniq naming is a must to aboid that 17:59:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 18:00:21 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:41 though instead of lambda i should use fix() instead i think 18:02:49 shorter, and more meaningful 18:03:25 previously used "eval()" that sounded logical too 18:04:24 GoKhlaYeh [~GoKhlaYeh@117.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 18:06:20 lambda is cool though, remember the guy from half-life 18:06:32 lol 18:07:15 there were times i felt like fixing something on win9x with a crowbar 18:07:35 but not anymore, i'm clean now, since 2008, only linux 18:08:06 yesah 18:10:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.40.170] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 18:17:40 djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:18:26 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82a9e3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:27 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:c67:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 18:19:06 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:1462:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:19:06 -!- Lajjla is now known as Lajla 18:37:43 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:39:45 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 18:54:36 -!- hopfrog [~bill@76.73.221.195] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:59:21 tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:04:33 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.11.254] has joined #scheme 19:04:35 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:05:21 -!- overflow_0f8b [~ea17b4b02@2a01:270:dd00:7700:404:dead:beef:cafe] has quit [Quit: rehashing] 19:20:46 mgodshall [~quassel@pool-108-36-207-226.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:06 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:241a:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 19:23:09 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:23:17 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #scheme 19:24:54 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-180.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:28 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:c67:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:28:08 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:28:34 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-180.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:30:08 -!- Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:241a:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:31:06 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:241a:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 19:31:18 -!- Lajjla is now known as Lajla 19:31:23 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 19:34:12 zain_aa [zain@nat/hackerschool.com/x-fidmuyrpuqtcsoyg] has joined #scheme 19:34:31 Hello all, this is my first time in here. Thank you for cultivating a wonderful community 19:35:23 If I may ask a question, I was wondering how to convert a list of integers.. something like (0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1) to a bit stream and write to file? 19:37:50 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@cpc28-acto3-2-0-cust424.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:40:04 arcfide [~arcfide@fl-67-233-16-36.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 19:42:04 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.11.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:43:35 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?] 19:44:09 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:47:56 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Quit: time to reboot emacs] 19:49:37 offby1 [~user@ec2-50-18-138-42.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 19:49:45 -!- offby1 [~user@ec2-50-18-138-42.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing 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has joined #scheme 21:13:43 zain_aa: probably a question of coalescing 8 of them into a byte and using 'put-u8' or equivalent, unless your scheme has explicit support for bit io 21:15:23 rudybot: quote 21:15:23 ijp: let's blow our mind. 21:24:22 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.11.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:26:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:27:44 "She blew my nose, and then she blew my mind." 21:28:00 Lajjla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:8e9:221a:ae33:eb94] has joined #scheme 21:30:22 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@2001:0:5ef5:73b8:2c23:221a:ae33:eb94] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:30:22 -!- Lajjla is now known as Lajla 21:38:50 -!- oneirophren [oneirophre@91.196.91.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:40:47 -!- woonie [~woonie@spnp240206.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:42:14 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-48-215-89.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 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