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00:13:58 <klutometis> Is there a name for the inverse (or is it converse?) of cons? In other words, in (cons x y) => z; x is the result of "de-consing", so to speak, y and z.
00:14:18 <klutometis> Almost like set-difference or complement.
00:15:13 <klutometis> Is "de-consing" appropriate?
00:15:24 <offby1> not in polite company, no
00:15:25 <tomodo> I don't know what you mean
00:15:56 <klutometis> offby1: That's what I figured; "de-consing" in #scheme is almost like Borat descending on a Southern family and shitting in a bag.
00:15:59 <tomodo> you say (uncons (cons x y) y) => x
00:16:07 <tomodo> but what about (uncons (cons x v) y) ?
00:16:08 <tomodo> error?
00:17:22 <klutometis> tomodo: SRFI-71 has an uncons: <http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-71/srfi-71.html>.
00:17:53 <tomodo> I'm just using it as a temporary name to ask that question
00:18:17 <klutometis> Right, right; let me think.
00:18:27 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: i'd call it 'destructuring', in a sense.
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00:19:10 <klutometis> tomodo: The latter might be an error; or can you return the empty list?
00:19:21 <klutometis> Is the empty list misrepresentational somehow?
00:19:30 <klutometis> qu1j0t3: That's an interesting way to look at it.
00:19:57 <tomodo> so it's a "safe" CAR which asserts that CDR is equal to something
00:20:46 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: it's a traditional term for similar operations.
00:20:58 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: e.g. destructuring a list into bindings
00:21:26 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: and you are taking a composite value and producing its parts
00:21:29 <klutometis> qu1j0t3: Right, yeah; the Clojurians and the Pythonistas are obsessed with destructuring. We call it `values', I supposed.
00:21:33 *qu1j0t3* rambles incoherently
00:21:46 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: well destructuring is a term maybe more prevalent in CL, but often used in Lisp
00:21:52 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: even here
00:22:08 <klutometis> Oh, is it? Ok; maybe they stole it from the Lispish forefathers.
00:22:16 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: i think i've also seen it in the context of pattern matching
00:22:32 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: where you might use it on a tuple, potentially nested, or a list
00:22:48 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: 2-tuple = pair = value of cons
00:22:48 <klutometis> Ah, right; that makes sense. I'm in the midst of kanren right now: which is declarative/logical programming in Scheme.
00:22:55 <klutometis> Pattern matching, destructuring come up a lot.
00:22:59 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: yes!
00:23:06 <tomodo> in something like kanren there's no inverse of cons
00:23:11 <tomodo> just use cons
00:23:20 <tomodo> no need for
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00:23:41 <klutometis> tomodo: But conso allows you to express something like: (conso x '(b c d) '(a b c d)), where x is associated with 'a.
00:23:50 <tomodo> yes
00:23:52 <klutometis> I found that fascinating.
00:24:29 <qu1j0t3> wait wait, what is that baout
00:24:32 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: explain !
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00:25:59 <klutometis> qu1j0t3: `conso' expresses a constraint, x is a free variable; when kanren attempts to satisfy the constraint, it associates a with x.
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00:26:38 <klutometis> conso is some sort of specific cons-constraint; there are similar constraints such as: caro, cdro, &c.
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01:11:53 <qu1j0t3> klutometis: ic
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03:26:51 <CampinSam> Jeez.. is there more documentation for scheme-complete? or am I just being silly, and not fully understanding it?
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03:34:10 <deicide> would someone be willing to help me with sicp ex 1.14?
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03:36:00 <tomodo> sure
03:37:12 <deicide> okay do you have a copy on hand or should i link you?
03:37:55 <deicide> tomodo: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-11.html#%_sec_1.2.3
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03:38:33 <tomodo> ok
03:39:14 <deicide> thanks in advance
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03:41:34 <tomodo> what do you want to know??
03:41:52 <offby1> how do I get to Carnegie Hall?
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03:42:02 <tomodo> practice
03:42:30 <deicide> tomodo: the order of growth
03:42:40 <deicide> of the count-change function
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03:48:41 <offby1> tomodo++
03:49:29 <ijp> take a taxi, much quicker
03:49:56 <offby1> take a picture, it'll last longer
03:50:02 <offby1> (I never did understand that phrase)
03:50:22 <sousousou> ask a pianist on irc what notes they play and when
03:50:31 <tomodo> deicide: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Rgd0wCiM
03:52:28 <deicide> ah
03:52:53 <deicide> tomodo: how do you know
03:52:55 <deicide> that
03:52:58 <deicide> (cc (- x 1) 2)
03:53:05 <deicide> equals x-1 calls?
03:53:32 <tomodo> no it takes x-1 calls + ...
03:53:51 <tomodo> sorry
03:56:06 <deicide> oh yeah
03:56:18 <deicide> yes, but i still don't see why
03:56:32 <tomodo> if 'cc' means number of calls for that function
03:56:38 <deicide> (cc (- x 1) 2) equals x-1 calls + ... calls
03:56:41 <tomodo> (cc x 2) = (cc x 1) + (cc (- x 1) 2)
03:56:49 <tomodo> (cc x 2) = (cc x 1) + (cc (- x 1) 1) + (cc (- x 2) 2)
03:56:54 <tomodo> (cc x 2) = (cc x 1) + (cc (- x 1) 1) + (cc (- x 2) 1) + ...
03:57:10 <tomodo> so it's x + x-1 + x-2 + ...
03:58:20 <tomodo> we're looking at how many calls (cc x 2) takes in terms of how many (cc x 1) takes
03:58:23 <deicide> ohhh
03:58:35 <deicide> alright
03:58:39 <deicide> i understand now
03:58:47 <offby1> rudybot is back if you want to do some evals
03:58:50 <offby1> rudybot: eval (+ 1 2 3)
03:59:00 *offby1* twiddles thumbs
03:59:04 *offby1* fidgets uncomfortably
03:59:07 *offby1* glances around nervously.
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03:59:21 <rudybot> offby1: your sandbox is ready
03:59:21 <rudybot> offby1: ; Value: 6
03:59:27 *offby1* wipes brow
04:01:25 <deicide> tomodo: i understand why the order of growth in that function is polynomial at n^5
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04:01:43 <deicide> but what makes it that different from the fibannoci function
04:01:49 <deicide> which is exponential
04:02:19 <deicide> aren't they essentially the same?
04:02:30 <deicide> calling itself with a slightly smaller subproblem?
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04:02:43 <deicide> calling itself twice*
04:04:35 <tomodo> deicide: fibonacci(n) is like cc(n,n)
04:05:03 <deicide> why isn't cc exponential in both of its arguments?
04:05:06 <tomodo> well that's not really true at all
04:05:57 <tomodo> do you know that fib(n) takes exactly fib(n) calls?
04:06:19 <deicide> yes
04:06:24 <tomodo> well I guess it doesn't
04:06:34 <deicide> though i do not know how to prove it
04:06:38 <tomodo> it's more like fib(n) + fib(n-1)
04:06:46 <deicide> fib(n+1) calls apparently
04:06:59 <tomodo> yeah, fib(n) + fib(n-1) = fib(n+1)
04:07:19 <tomodo> how about making it simpler
04:08:02 <tomodo> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=tU42Cuk4
04:08:17 <tomodo> this version doesn't work for fib(0), but it takes exactly fib(n) calls
04:08:56 <tomodo> the proof is that it returns a number like 1 + (1 + 1) + (1 + (1 + 1))
04:09:05 <tomodo> and each '1' is a leaf
04:09:32 <deicide> yep
04:09:50 <tomodo> I was going to say so the number of calls is equal to the number of 1's, but that's wrong, you have to count the +'s too
04:11:10 <tomodo> this "simpler" version wasn't helpful, we should forget it
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04:12:29 <tomodo> the number of calls for fib(n+2) is 2*fib(n+1) + fib(n)
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04:13:19 <deicide> yep
04:13:21 <tomodo> sorry it's fib(n+1) + 2*fib(n)
04:13:27 <tomodo> no
04:13:39 <tomodo> sorry it's 2*fib(n) + fib(n-1)
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04:15:27 <tomodo> well anyway forget about this rubbish
04:15:45 <tomodo> just look at it this way: the number of 0 leaves is <= the number of 1 leaves
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04:16:19 <tomodo> and the number of 1 leaves adds up to fib(n) in total
04:16:25 <tomodo> so fib(n) is O(fib(n))
04:17:08 <deicide> okay yeah
04:17:10 <tomodo> and we know that fib(n) > 1.5^n  due to the closed form so it's exponential
04:17:38 <deicide> due to the closed form?
04:17:56 <tomodo> fib(n) = (1.6^n - 0.6^n)/something
04:18:15 <tomodo> something like that
04:18:49 <deicide> oh yeah
04:18:55 <tomodo> basically it's well known to be exponential, but it doesn't dominate 2^n so we wont be able to prove it discretely
04:19:30 <deicide> you can prove it using induction i think
04:19:33 <deicide> i mean
04:19:39 <deicide> i understand why fib is exponential
04:19:47 <deicide> and now, why cc is polynomial
04:19:51 <deicide> i don't understand
04:20:05 <tomodo> cc(x,n) is O(x^n)
04:20:12 <deicide> yeah
04:20:16 <deicide> let's talk about fixed n
04:20:21 <tomodo> it's only polynomial when you fix n
04:21:04 <deicide> i don't understand what property makes them have different orders of growth (even when you fix n)
04:21:28 <tomodo> they're totally different incomparable functions
04:22:15 <deicide> so there's no way to find some generalized property which correlates to an order of growth?
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04:25:06 <tomodo> you can see visually why cc(x,n) is O(x^n)
04:25:17 <tomodo> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=DA4zr4rr
04:25:26 <tomodo> just place one * for each call
04:25:48 <tomodo> cc(x,1) makes a line, cc(x,2) makes a line of lines (fits inside a grid), cc(x,3) makes a line of lines of lines (fits inside a cube)
04:27:21 <tomodo> I don't know what you mean about generalized property
04:28:14 <deicide> okay i see
04:28:37 <tomodo> there's no way to just take a given recursive/arithmetic function and figure out its order of growth. For simple classes of functions, like recurrence relations or dynamic programs you can do
04:29:02 <deicide> yeah that's what i meant
04:29:14 <deicide> well that's unfortunate
04:29:29 <deicide> but thanks a lot. i greatly appreciate it.
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08:08:06 <omegacfx> ALL THE SINGLE LADIES
08:09:13 *gf3* burns down omegacfx's house
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09:27:16 <Operaist2> is nil the same as '() and (list)?
09:27:40 <pjb> Operaist2: no. There's no nil in r5s.
09:27:41 <pjb> r5rs.
09:27:54 <ijp> no
09:27:59 <pjb> '() is the same as (quote ()) which is different from (list).
09:28:12 <pjb> But both evaluate to the same thing: () which is the end of list marker.
09:28:27 <Operaist2> so they are different but they evaluate to the same thing?
09:28:35 <pjb> Yes.
09:28:35 <Operaist2> so how do i make their difference manifest?
09:28:45 <pjb> (equal? '(quote ()) '(list))
09:28:51 <pjb> or (equal? ''() '(list))
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09:28:59 <ijp> nil is a strange beast which encompasses both the end of a list and falsity, scheme separates the two
09:29:18 <pjb> ijp: and boolean false, in emacs  lisp and Common Lisp.
09:29:28 <pjb> In scheme there's #f, () and nil, three different things.
09:30:46 <Operaist2> in SICP they use nil a lot but it doesn't work with my scheme so what should i replace it with?
09:30:52 <ijp> (define nil '())
09:31:08 <pjb> Yes, but beware that () is true in scheme.
09:31:49 <pjb> So it depends on what you use nil for.  As a boolean false, (define nil #f); as an empty list (define nil '()); as a symbol (define nil 'nil).
09:32:42 <ijp> Operaist2: it also prefers true and false to #t and #f
09:32:53 <ijp> so you might want to define those
09:33:40 <Operaist2> can i (define nil (list))
09:33:44 <Operaist2> for empty list?
09:33:46 <ijp> yes
09:33:48 <pjb> Yes.
09:33:51 <pjb> (list) returns ().
09:33:57 <pjb> So (list) returns the same thing as '().
09:34:21 <pjb> Arguably, (list) computes more than '(), and '() is clearer than (list).
09:34:43 <pjb> Using  (list) is like using (- 1 1) to get 0.
09:36:49 <Operaist2> Ohkhey
09:38:53 <ijp> it doesn't really matter, you could even do (define nil (let loop ((val (generate-arbitrary-scheme-value))) (if (null? val) val (loop (generate-arbitrary-scheme-value))))) if you were so inclined
09:39:08 <ijp> 'generate-arbitrary-scheme-value' is left as an exercise
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09:41:06 <Operaist2> in SICP there is a procedure http://pastebin.com/jBZ81Qvk but it doesn't work.
09:41:15 <Operaist2> so now i can't proceed
09:41:48 <ijp> what doesn't work?
09:41:50 <pjb> accumulate is to be defined.
09:42:01 <Operaist2> the procedure flatmap
09:42:07 <Operaist2> accumulate is defined already
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09:42:31 <ijp> what did you expect? what happened?
09:42:56 <ijp> "doesn't work" won't mean anything to anyone else
09:43:23 <Operaist2> it should give me a list but it says 16 which is an element in the list is not a list. accumulate gives append each element of the list but append only accepts list as parameter
09:43:29 <Operaist2> so i think the procedure is faulty
09:43:39 <Operaist2> but maybe back in the 1950s append is nicer
09:43:41 <Operaist2> i dont know
09:43:47 <Operaist2> maybe you ancients know?
09:43:59 *ijp* mumbles that he is probably younger than you
09:44:11 <pjb> Operaist2: it's up to you to pass a proc function that returns lists!
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09:58:22 <Operaist2> hello?
09:58:31 <pjb> Hi!
09:58:35 <pjb> Did memoserv work?
09:58:39 <ijp> the number you have dialed has not been recognised, please try again later
09:59:26 <Operaist2> anyway
09:59:34 <Operaist2> as i was saying
09:59:43 <pjb> Operaist2: flatmap works perfectly: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128123
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10:02:29 <Operaist2> whats memoserv?
10:02:37 <pjb> Type /msg memoserv help
10:03:08 <pjb> But perhaps it works only with registered users. Are you registered?
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10:25:57 <Operaist2> hello
10:26:15 <Operaist2> who was it that mumbled that he was younger than me?
10:27:03 <Operaist2> how old are you?
10:27:30 <pjb> Are you convinced that flatmap works?
10:28:43 <Operaist2> i am
10:28:57 <pjb> Good :-)
10:29:17 <Operaist2> but there were other trains of dialogue i was following
10:29:28 <Operaist2> so let's restart it
10:29:39 <Operaist2> i call you all ancients
10:29:49 <Operaist2> then someone said he's probably younger than me
10:29:54 <Operaist2> then i said im only 16
10:29:57 <pjb> I  was born before scheme.
10:29:58 <Operaist2> now your turn
10:30:06 <Operaist2> how old is scheme
10:30:10 <Operaist2> isnt it like 70 yr old
10:30:14 <Operaist2> in the 1950?
10:30:17 <Operaist2> 60 yr old
10:30:19 <pjb> No. It was created about 1975.
10:31:19 <Operaist2> i still don't get what flatmap is supposed to do though
10:31:25 <Operaist2> seems kinda overly convoluted
10:31:27 <pjb> Lisp was created officially on March 4, 1959. Tomorrow it'll be 53 years old.  I'm younger.
10:32:26 <Operaist2> oh wow tomorrow is lisp birthday?
10:32:32 <Operaist2> do they have a party for lisp?
10:32:34 <pjb> Another example would be: (flatmap append (map (lambda (x)  (list  x (* x x))) '(1 2 3))) --> (3 9 2 4 1 1)
10:32:38 <pjb> Yes, we do.
10:33:07 <pjb> Running old programs such as: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/wang.html
10:34:43 <Operaist2> wait how do you get (3 9 2 4 1 1) from that??
10:35:08 <pjb> rudybot: (map (lambda (x)  (list  x (* x x))) '(1 2 3))
10:35:08 <rudybot> pjb: your r5rs sandbox is ready
10:35:08 <rudybot> pjb: ; Value: {{1 1} {2 4} {3 9}}
10:35:30 <pjb> rudybot: (define (flatmap proc seq) (accumulate append (list) (map proc seq)))
10:35:30 <rudybot> pjb: Done.
10:35:44 <pjb> rudybot: (define (accumulate op init list)         (if (null? list) init (accumulate op (op (car list) init) (cdr  list))))
10:35:44 <rudybot> pjb: Done.
10:36:04 <pjb> rudybot: (flatmap append '((1 1) (2 4) (3 9)))
10:36:04 <rudybot> pjb: ; Value: {3 9 2 4 1 1}
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10:37:19 <pjb> Notice one would change the order of the elements by changing  (op (car list) init)  to (op init (car list))
10:37:32 <pjb> rudybot: (define (accumulate op init list)         (if (null? list) init (accumulate op (op init (car list)) (cdr  list))))
10:37:32 <rudybot> pjb: Done.
10:37:42 <pjb> rudybot: (flatmap append '((1 1) (2 4) (3 9)))
10:37:42 <rudybot> pjb: ; Value: {1 1 2 4 3 9}
10:38:03 <pjb> Perhaps it was the definition that was wanted.
10:38:18 <Operaist2> so why is it called flatmap
10:38:25 <Operaist2> what i can see is that it is like a map function
10:38:33 <pjb> Because it allows to flatten the  results of a map.
10:38:33 <Operaist2> except it only takes in lists
10:38:40 <pjb> In Common Lisp, we'd just use mapcan.
10:38:41 <Operaist2> and it makes a list of those lists
10:39:02 <Operaist2> but result of a map is already flat?
10:39:12 <Operaist2> map gives you a list right?
10:39:14 <Operaist2> is list flat??
10:40:07 <pjb> A flat list is a list containing only atoms.
10:40:14 <pjb> An atom is a non-pair.
10:40:40 <pjb> The result of (map (lambda (x)  (list  x (* x x))) '(1 2 3)) is not a flat list.
10:41:06 <ijp> rudybot: eval (require srfi/1)
10:41:07 <rudybot> ijp: your sandbox is ready
10:41:07 <rudybot> ijp: Done.
10:41:24 <ijp> rudybot: eval (define (flatmap f l) (concatenate (map f l)))
10:41:24 <rudybot> ijp: Done.
10:41:34 <ijp> rudybot: eval (map iota (iota 5))
10:41:34 <rudybot> ijp: ; Value: (() (0) (0 1) (0 1 2) (0 1 2 3))
10:41:48 <ijp> rudybot: eval (flatmap iota (iota 5))
10:41:48 <rudybot> ijp: ; Value: (0 0 1 0 1 2 0 1 2 3)
10:41:59 <pjb> ijp: yes, but a course or a book such as sicp cannot just contain (require srfi/1)  (require srfi/n).
10:42:25 <ijp> yes, it provides a demonstration
10:42:52 <ijp> given a function f that takes a value and returns a list
10:43:03 <ijp> flapmap will return a list of values, and map will return a list of lists
10:43:35 <pjb> Nonetheless, one can argue that flatmap is ill named and not well conceived.  accumulate is more useful.
10:43:55 <ijp> if words are confusing, show some examples
10:44:52 <Operaist2> ok so basically if i had a list of list say ((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)) i would use flatmap to make it (1 2 3 4 5  6)
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10:45:14 <ijp> (flatmap (lambda (x) x) l) would do that, yes
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10:48:05 <Operaist2> what other way can you use flatmap?
10:48:52 <ijp> one novelty is to implement filter using flatmap
10:49:00 <Operaist2> bacause in SICP when they used it they used it to produce a list of pairs
10:49:08 <Operaist2> so its not really flat at all
10:49:22 <ijp> this is true, it only flattens one level
10:49:39 <leppie> rudybot: (apply append '((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)))
10:49:40 <rudybot> leppie: your sandbox is ready
10:49:40 <rudybot> leppie: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5 6)
10:50:29 <ijp> rudybot: eval (define (my-filter f l) (flatmap (lambda (x) (if (f x) (list x) (list))) l))
10:50:29 <rudybot> ijp: Done.
10:50:43 <ijp> rudybot: eval (my-filter even? '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10))
10:50:43 <rudybot> ijp: ; Value: (0 2 4 6 8 10)
10:50:48 <ijp> rudybot: eval (my-filter odd? '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10))
10:50:48 <rudybot> ijp: ; Value: (1 3 5 7 9)
10:51:20 <Operaist2> still don't undersatnd what flatmap is :(
10:51:35 <ijp> do you understand what concatenate does?
10:51:49 <ijp> rudybot: eval (concatenate '((0 1 2) (3 4 5) (6 7 8)))
10:51:49 <rudybot> ijp: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)
10:52:10 <ijp> flatmap is just a map, then concatenating the result lists
10:52:51 <ijp> so, if we take that filter example I gave
10:53:30 <ijp> rudybot: eval (define (my-filter f l) (map (lambda (x) (if (f x) (list x) (list))) l))
10:53:30 <rudybot> ijp: Done.
10:53:35 <ijp> only this time using normal map
10:53:49 <ijp> rudybot: eval (my-filter odd? '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10))
10:53:49 <rudybot> ijp: ; Value: (() (1) () (3) () (5) () (7) () (9) ())
10:54:18 <ijp> then all we are doing is taking those intermediate lists, and appending them together
10:54:34 <Operaist2> oh
10:54:40 <ijp> rudybot: eval (concatenate '(() (1) () (3) () (5) () (7) () (9) ()))
10:54:40 <rudybot> ijp: ; Value: (1 3 5 7 9)
10:54:50 <Operaist2> so i can see the obvious use when you have a list of 1-list
10:55:44 <ijp> leppie: how goes things in the IronScheme world?
10:58:29 <leppie> ijp: slowly lately, need to think of something fun and new to boost development
10:59:09 <leppie> guess I should make a release then, been in RC state for about 2 years now ;p
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16:44:31 <tcleval> hi, what is the role of () around complex in http://paste.lisp.org/display/128128  ? I see the with (complex) I can define an "object", where I can store a function dispatcher inside the lambda.. but I dont understand how () change it so much
16:45:30 <pjb> tcleval: (define (f . args) body) is equivalent  to (define f (lambda args body))
16:46:07 <pjb> So the first form is equivalent to (define complex (lambda () (lambda (x y) (cons x y)))) which is quite different from the secoond form.
16:49:00 <tcleval> pjb: so, on the second form, complex hold a lambda expression that receives args, and on the first form complex is a lambda expression that creates another lambda that receives x y... hummm
16:50:10 <tcleval> so in the first form I can create something like C++/java objects as the objects defined with (define myobj complex) are actualy a lambda expression
16:52:43 <tcleval> pjb: in that case, as I have an extra lambda, I can define auxiliary procedures only accessible inside complex... Just like Poors Man obj programming
16:54:53 <wingo> closures are a poor man's objects
16:55:16 <wingo> http://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/msg03277.html
16:55:48 <qu1j0t3> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ClosuresAndObjectsAreEquivalent
16:59:35 <tcleval> thx people
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18:02:20 <wingo> i had no idea guy steele edited the first ecmascript specification
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18:07:34 <Lajla> wingo, he is also the guy behind Java
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18:34:06 <wingo> that i knew
18:36:57 <Lajjla> wingo, I always use it as an argument to either Java people who think scheme is retarded or the inverse
18:37:04 <Lajjla> Domain is everything of course.
18:37:30 <tcleval> hi, schemers. I am reading "The Scheme Programming Language, 3rd Edition" and I dont understand what "=>" is doing on this code http://paste.lisp.org/display/128130   actually I dont know what "=>" stands for
18:37:56 <Lajjla> tcleval, that's a form of cond
18:38:14 <Lajjla> It basically, if the condition is true, evaluates to the result of the condition with cdr applied to it
18:38:15 <asumu> tcleval: the right hand side of => is a procedure that's applied to the test expression.
18:38:30 <asumu> tcleval: Also, did you know that TSPL 4th edition is freely available online?
18:38:59 <tcleval> really? that is great!
18:39:04 <tcleval> I am going for it
18:39:31 <asumu> tcleval: http://www.scheme.com/tspl4/
18:40:38 <tcleval> nice.. to be "complete" I could find a pdf or chm version so I can read it on my phone too
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18:42:48 <tcleval> asumu: on the 4th edition I see [] instead of () on the same code I just show you. Is that racket specific ? Coz I am using gambit
18:43:16 <wingo> tsplv4 is r6rs
18:43:24 <wingo> in which [] is equivalent to ()
18:43:48 <wingo> gambit does not implement r6rs
18:43:52 <tcleval> humm
18:43:57 <wingo> if you're on gambit, better to stay with tsplv3
18:44:04 <tcleval> So I better stick with 3rd edition
18:44:30 <tcleval> anyway is good to know where to findo more info on scheme
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18:48:38 <asumu> [ and ( is interchangeable, so you could read 4th and just pretend they are the same. Or you can stick with 3rd, up to you.
18:49:04 <asumu> All of the TSPL editions (down to 2nd anyway) use syntax-case, for example, so Gambit won't support everything there anyway.
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18:57:01 <tcleval> asumu: in any case I am downloading the book
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19:08:36 <Lajjla> Ahh, symtax-case, my mortal nemesis
19:08:50 <Lajjla> I like what you've done to your beard.
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19:21:38 <overflow_0f8b> hi
19:21:52 *offby1* rubs his chin
19:22:15 *overflow_0f8b* twists mustache
19:24:13 *qu1j0t3* adjusts monocle
19:26:55 <offby1> I say.
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19:48:47 <republican_devil> schemers use scheme for shell scripting?
19:49:07 <republican_devil> tired of perl and tcl arrays syntax seems a mess
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19:49:55 <qu1j0t3> republican_devil: looked at scsh (i don't use it myself, but it's clever)?
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19:56:48 <republican_devil> I have a  while back, it seemed wuite awesome.
19:56:53 <republican_devil> quite
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20:02:08 <wingo> qu1j0t3: #gavino
20:03:14 -!- republican_devil is now known as yes_imgavino
20:03:23 <yes_imgavino> I do really love lisp.
20:03:40 <yes_imgavino> perl really gives me headache
20:05:23 <chromaticwt> yes_imgavino: I like lisp too. do you use emacs?
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20:08:56 <yes_imgavino> vi
20:09:05 <qu1j0t3> wingo: oh gawd, i fall for it every time.
20:09:25 <qu1j0t3> all we need is Xah Lee in here and it's a party
20:11:21 <yes_imgavino> wow his post so boring on google groups
20:11:25 <yes_imgavino> usenet
20:11:36 <yes_imgavino> I mean I don't like perl either.
20:11:37 <yes_imgavino> lol
20:11:48 <yes_imgavino> picolisp seems interesting
20:12:01 <yes_imgavino> most jobs using java barf
20:12:37 <yes_imgavino> lastest thing si mongodb nodejs and mysql being used so at least not oracle crap
20:12:47 <yes_imgavino> wonder wah twould happen if used scheme without relational db
20:12:57 <yes_imgavino> would apps be better on same given hardware
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20:17:17 <yes_imgavino> do any of you work in a place using such strategy?
20:17:21 <yes_imgavino> scheme all the way
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20:33:06 <yes_imgavino> ?
20:33:14 <yes_imgavino> feel like the wub
20:33:24 <yes_imgavino> wish to discuss things but everyone silent
20:34:53 <tomodo> hey
20:35:03 <tomodo> i'm working on my AI
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20:43:12 <chromaticwt> yes_imgavino: if you like lisp, you should be using emacs, it even has viper-mode for vi emulation, but not ex.
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20:44:08 <yes_imgavino> why
20:44:13 <yes_imgavino> vi si fine
20:44:18 <yes_imgavino> paul graham used it
20:44:24 <yes_imgavino> I find emacs a task in itself to learn
20:44:26 <yes_imgavino> zz
20:44:36 <yes_imgavino> plus if I am on terminal withotu x
20:44:42 <yes_imgavino> emacs no use eh
20:44:52 <yes_imgavino> oh wait it has termianl mode ok ok
20:44:56 <yes_imgavino> but why bother
20:45:04 <yes_imgavino> I think :sm gives em paren matching
20:45:07 <yes_imgavino> and away i go
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20:47:51 <C-Keen> auto-troll-mode
20:48:27 <samth> eli, ping -- troll infestation in aisle 4
20:48:46 <yes_imgavino> not trollllll
20:48:49 <yes_imgavino> I am not troll
20:48:55 <yes_imgavino> not not
20:49:16 <C-Keen> where's Capt. Obvious when you need him
20:49:24 <tomodo> man fuck you guys
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20:51:53 <yes_imgavino> http://javafree.uol.com.br/artigo/871463/Interview-with-Klaus-Wuestefeld-founder-of-Prevayler.html  I think a shop using lisp prevalence would go a long way toward beating most of what I see running on my precious linux machines.
20:51:54 <rudybot> http://tinyurl.com/8xc7u9w
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21:13:47 *adu* <3 Emacs
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