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02:56:11 Reading sicp and have come across the the flatmap function (in the nested mappings section of chapter 2), its not intuitive damn it. 02:56:38 -!- Guest11987 [~albert@108-71-73-198.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 02:56:50 Guest11987 [~albert@108-71-73-198.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:57:38 Reading sicp and have come across the the flatmap function (in the nested mappings section of chapter 2), its not intuitive damn it. 02:58:47 Guest91938 [email@89.180.156.142] has joined #scheme 02:59:50 in what sense? 03:01:34 since proc is expected to return a list (map proc seq) returns a list of lists 03:01:57 and (accumulate append nil list-of-lists) turns that list of lists into a single lists 03:02:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.62.203] has joined #scheme 03:02:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.62.203] has quit [Changing host] 03:02:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 03:04:31 rudybot: isn't intuitive just another world for familiar? 03:04:31 ijp: to me, it looked ugly and not intuitive at all 03:04:45 ijp: well, not exactly... 03:05:17 qu1j0t3: don't start with your "facts" 03:05:24 hahaha 03:05:25 :) 03:05:28 *qu1j0t3* shuts up 03:07:19 -!- Guest91938 [email@89.180.156.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:29 bytbox_ [~s@96.26.105.154] has joined #scheme 03:08:17 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:17 -!- bytbox [~s@96.26.105.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:15:29 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 03:18:04 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-114-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:21:30 -!- Guest11987 [~albert@108-71-73-198.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:49 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:30:20 -!- wbooze 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[~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 11:13:29 adnan [~king@108-215-232-154.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 11:13:44 is there a way for a function to return two values? 11:13:56 like a quadratic equation solver or a sqrt 11:14:20 Yes. But it's not practical to collect them, IMO. 11:14:42 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_572 11:14:43 http://tinyurl.com/yoye9g 11:15:00 I'd rather return a list of values. 11:15:37 thats cool, thanks! 11:16:21 I've never quite got the whole 'values' thing 11:16:39 It feels wrong, and a solution in search of a problem 11:17:08 Well, it's not as practical as in Common Lisp... 11:17:09 I like them 11:17:23 it feels weird using call-with-values all the time 11:18:26 but the list idea as pjb said, I think, can work well with all functions that you give to call-with-values, I mean 11:18:31 Is there perhaps an example that motivates their use? 11:19:07 (call-with-values thunk-v b) can be replaced by (apply b (think-l)) 11:19:14 Ya.. I was just thinking that 11:19:22 where thunk-l is like thunk-v, but return a list with values 11:19:35 Given 'apply', I don't see a need for it 11:19:41 rudybot: (let ((a 1) (b 2) (c 1)) (call-with-values (lambda () (let ((delta (- (* b b) (* 4 a c)))) (cond ((< delta 0) (values)) ((= delta 0) (values (/ (- b) 2 a))) (else (values (/ (- (- b) (sqrt delta)) 2 a) (/ (+ (- b) (sqrt delta)) 2 a)))))) (lambda solutions (display solutions)))) 11:19:42 pjb: your r5rs sandbox is ready 11:19:42 pjb: ; stdout: "(-1)" 11:19:45 ((though I'm upset you can't 'apply' by doing (func . args) 11:19:47 rudybot: (let ((a -1) (b 2) (c 1)) (call-with-values (lambda () (let ((delta (- (* b b) (* 4 a c)))) (cond ((< delta 0) (values)) ((= delta 0) (values (/ (- b) 2 a))) (else (values (/ (- (- b) (sqrt delta)) 2 a) (/ (+ (- b) (sqrt delta)) 2 a)))))) (lambda solutions (display solutions)))) 11:19:47 pjb: ; stdout: "(2.414213562373095 -0.41421356237309515)" 11:19:53 rudybot: (let ((a -1) (b 2) (c -1)) (call-with-values (lambda () (let ((delta (- (* b b) (* 4 a c)))) (cond ((< delta 0) (values)) ((= delta 0) (values (/ (- b) 2 a))) (else (values (/ (- (- b) (sqrt delta)) 2 a) (/ (+ (- b) (sqrt delta)) 2 a)))))) (lambda solutions (display solutions)))) 11:19:53 pjb: ; stdout: "(1)" 11:20:02 rudybot: (let ((a -1) (b 2) (c -10)) (call-with-values (lambda () (let ((delta (- (* b b) (* 4 a c)))) (cond ((< delta 0) (values)) ((= delta 0) (values (/ (- b) 2 a))) (else (values (/ (- (- b) (sqrt delta)) 2 a) (/ (+ (- b) (sqrt delta)) 2 a)))))) (lambda solutions (display solutions)))) 11:20:02 pjb: ; stdout: "()" 11:20:26 So you can even have a variable number of return values. 11:21:13 .. actually, does anything say/mean that (func . args) ought not work? 11:22:03 never seen that syntax for calling functions before.. 11:22:09 makes sense, but idk if it's valid 11:22:50 It just feels right as the logical extension from (lambda args foo) and (define (func . args) foo) 11:25:22 phao: AFAIK it's perfectly valid in r5rs. 11:26:01 well 11:26:08 (+ . (list 1 2 3)) 11:26:14 didn't work in my csi 11:28:23 Hrm.. if that did work then I suppose apply can just be (define (apply func . lists) (func . (append . lists))) 11:29:05 rudybot: (+ . (1 2 3)) 11:29:05 pjb: ; Value: 6 11:29:10 phao: think! 11:29:20 Ahhah :) good 11:29:23 rudybot: (let ((list 42)) (+ . (list 1 2 3))) 11:29:23 pjb: ; Value: 48 11:29:23 =) 11:29:39 Why the let? 11:29:48 well 11:29:55 to add 42 + 1 + 2 + 3 11:29:58 =) 11:30:05 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:10 To bind list. 11:30:14 if list wasn't bound to a number there 11:30:20 that'd be an error 11:30:23 Yah, but I don't get what that demonstrates that the previous line didn't. 11:30:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 11:30:30 Hrmm 11:30:35 LeoNerd: it just makes phao's broken example work 11:30:44 rudybot: (display '(+ . (list 1 2 3))) 11:30:44 pjb: ; stdout: "(+ list 1 2 3)" 11:31:04 I thought (+ . (1 2 3)) 11:31:08 would try to apply 1 to 2 and 3 11:31:22 rudybot: (equal? '(+ . (1 2 3)) '(+ 1 2 3)) 11:31:22 pjb: ; Value: #t 11:32:02 rudybot: (let ((l '(1 2 3))) (+ . l)) 11:32:04 LeoNerd: your sandbox is ready 11:32:04 LeoNerd: error: #:1:20: application: bad syntax in: (+ . l) 11:32:17 Yeah, those are only working by accident 11:32:28 Not by accident. By design. 11:32:39 You need to know what lists and pairs are. 11:32:42 Well... yes. But I mean, if you rewrite it as: 11:32:53 rudybot: (let ((list 42)) (+ list 1 2 3))) 11:32:53 LeoNerd: yeah, wikipedia also has versions of that list for "urban area" and "city" (proper) 11:32:55 rudybot: (let ((l '(1 2 3))) (eval (cons '+ l))) 11:32:55 pjb: error: procedure meval: expects 2 arguments, given 1: (mcons '+ (mcons 1 (mcons 2 (mcons 3)))) 11:33:30 rudybot: (let ((l '(1 2 3))) (eval (cons '+ l) (interaction-environment))) 11:33:30 pjb: ; Value: 6 11:33:55 phao_ [phao@187.117.220.187] has joined #scheme 11:34:00 -!- phao [~phao@177.115.165.22] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:34:01 Everytime you write a cons cell with a dot, it's a literal. The car and cdr are not evaluated. 11:34:03 -!- phao_ is now known as phao 11:34:07 Yah.. I'm aware 11:34:14 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 11:34:15 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:34:15 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 11:34:19 I specifically wanted (func . args) to call it 11:34:30 When you write, code, the compontents of source sexp of the CODE are NOT evaluated! Only the code itself is evaluated. 11:37:05 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:37:08 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 11:47:18 In other news, I'm still annoyed that my set-cdr! accumulating filter is ~25% slower than the naive iterate-on-cons-then-reverse implementation. :( 11:48:27 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 11:50:12 heh 11:50:22 can I see your procedure LeoNerd ? 11:50:47 http://pastie.org/3215274 11:51:54 It works, it's just on my implementation that is even slower than cons'ing with reverse at the end 11:55:41 and... 11:55:44 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:55:45 why would you reverse in a filter? 11:55:51 ohh 11:55:56 sorry 11:56:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 11:56:14 The standard recursive implementation 11:56:16 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #scheme 11:56:16 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 11:56:16 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 11:56:42 Build a results list by iteration, except it comes out backwards.. so reverse it at the end of the input list 12:01:29 honnestly 12:01:53 (wait a moment) 12:03:03 they don't differ in 25% here in my computer 12:03:31 It's quite likely my implementation 12:03:50 actually the one you sent me 12:03:55 is the faster one 12:04:10 by 5% in the non-optimized version of the program 12:04:23 in the optimized version of the program, they are pretty much as fast 12:04:30 it's still strange though 12:04:42 that looping + reverse is as fast as looping with assignment 12:04:49 I'd guess that loop with assignment would be faster 12:04:57 It's not a very good implementation; someone points out it breaks if you call/cc it then resume it twice 12:05:16 E.g. if you (filter true '(1 2 3 4)) and somehow break/resume inbetween 2 and 3, then resume it again, you'll end up with (1 2 3 4 3 4) 12:06:17 hmm 12:08:25 I wonder why... 12:09:10 Because the results list exists once in the continuation 12:09:17 resuming it still just set-cdr's it 12:09:32 Ohwait.. it won't yield that, but it will alter the cons cells of the previous return 12:09:49 If you captured the two results you'd end up with the same list twice 12:10:31 I still don't see 12:10:34 what I see is this 12:10:50 you're in the middle of your filter, then for some reason you leave that, and then come back 12:11:17 it should be (I think) that if you called filter before comming back 12:11:24 a different, and new, result should be used. 12:11:27 and not the old one 12:11:35 Nono... 12:11:44 pause, capture the continuation, then invoke -that- twice. 12:12:11 Those two invocations will return the same cons cell address, to the same list... the two return values will be eq? and therefore mutating one affects the other 12:12:30 Whereas, by the naive reverse-at-the-end implementation, each invocation returns a newly-allocated list, independent 12:13:57 well 12:13:59 sure then 12:14:14 Which I think someone was objecting to, saying it ought not do that 12:14:20 As in, that would be a bad way for filter to behave 12:14:30 I don't understand very much these details 12:15:18 I kind of read the standard once. And it happens quite often that I see someone in here saying how these things work in a more detailed way. Most of the times I wonder "where the hell that came from", because I don't remember that in the standard. 12:15:49 well, gonna go nwo 12:15:56 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:58 -!- phao [phao@187.117.220.187] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 12:16:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 12:16:10 Anyway.. lunch => 12:18:04 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:19:21 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:22 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #scheme 12:19:23 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 12:26:54 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-194-255.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:28:28 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 12:28:55 euccastro [~es@139.Red-83-40-72.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:30:06 -!- realitygrill 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16:41:21 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-rfmnnwwsrfkvthhk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:14 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 16:59:45 moo? 17:01:49 moo 17:02:17 baaaa 17:02:36 oink 17:02:42 animal scheme! 17:03:14 rudybot: cock a doodle doo 17:03:15 ijp: or -- haha -- using _paper_ instead of your ipod to doodle notes 17:03:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:58 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qnpxxtzuwlclwxuc] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 17:04:04 rudybot: (define cowgirl '(o o m)) 17:04:05 leppie: your sandbox is ready 17:04:05 leppie: Done. 17:04:20 rudybot: (reverse cowgirl) 17:04:20 leppie: ; Value: (m o o) 17:04:22 mikecsh [~mikecsh@n219073040035.netvigator.com] has joined #scheme 17:04:48 hardcore scheme :) 17:10:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-142.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:11:37 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@n219073040035.netvigator.com] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 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[u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-diavkkpentoxgnxa] has joined #scheme 18:14:30 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:15:23 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2012-01/msg00368.html 18:15:38 local-eval in guile, back by popular demand... 18:15:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:15:44 crazy people ;) 18:16:45 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 18:17:07 includes the pattern variable shadowing thing i was so confused about yesterday 18:17:14 local-eval ? 18:17:48 jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:18:45 it's like javascript's strict direct eval 18:21:15 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:21:28 I don't know JS :) 18:22:06 odds are that you will, one day :) 18:22:29 I've managed to survive 10 years without it :P 18:26:22 LeoNerd: JavaScript is a crazy language. (I just read a blog about its eval, it's frightening). That said, http://bellard.org/jslinux 18:26:32 I'm aware of jslinux, yeah.. 18:26:35 (turing equivalence). 18:26:40 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:28:09 pjb: was it mine, i wonder? 18:28:31 wingo: yes. 18:29:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 18:29:22 cool :) 18:31:24 albert [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:31:50 -!- albert is now known as Guest73224 18:39:50 -!- dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:41:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.8] has joined #scheme 18:41:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.8] has quit [Changing host] 18:41:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 18:47:04 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 18:48:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:50:21 wingo: is local-eval like (eval expr (local-environment)) ? 18:50:55 ie (let ((a 1)) (local-eval 'a)) => 1 ? 18:51:20 An eval in the same scope as .. yeah. 18:51:26 That's sortof how Perl's one works 18:52:02 kinda 'bad' style, but could be useful, but there a lot better (but rather verbose) workarounds 18:52:04 leppie: yes 18:52:11 well you also have a the-environment 18:52:30 wingo: is that implemented somehow in psyntax 18:52:31 ? 18:52:33 so it would be (local-eval 'a (let ((a 1)) (the-environment))) 18:52:45 leppie: actually, out of psyntax 18:53:03 we modified ours to export two helper procedures, and that allowed local-eval to be implemented in a separate module 18:53:13 ahh; i recall I asked aziz for that feature but he turned it down 18:53:14 "ours" == our copy of psyntax 18:53:24 yes i thought it was absolutely crazy 18:53:41 but a contributor argued for it very persuasively, and implemented it, so i had to acquiesce 18:53:57 you can do the same with libraries and eval though, so no trainsmash really 18:54:22 but sometime you really just need to do it, and then want to do it easily 18:55:24 the two extensions are syntax-local-binding and syntax-locally-bound-identifiers 18:55:42 the former has some precedent in racket, but i haven't heard of anything about the latter 18:55:46 heh, that sounds very rackety ;p 18:55:49 s/about/like/ 18:56:35 soounds to complicated and noob dangerous for me personally 18:57:19 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 18:58:39 -!- copumpkin is now known as MasterBrony 19:00:24 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:01:03 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:02:56 -!- kmc [~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:04:11 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:07:36 -!- MasterBrony is now known as copumpkin 19:07:56 -!- leppie 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but C-c C-f don't seem to work; even after activating e.g. outline-minor-mode. 19:29:58 webben [~benjamin@173-203-84-17.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #scheme 19:30:26 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:30:37 Oh, never mind: keybindings are false. 19:30:38 Carry on. 19:32:21 *qu1j0t3* carries on 19:33:23 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:52 kmc [~keegan@184-198-119-18.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #scheme 19:40:17 -!- kmc [~keegan@184-198-119-18.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:34 kmc [keegan@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu] has joined #scheme 19:42:01 -!- kmc [clozure@clozure-9FE07BBF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 19:43:47 -!- zmv [~zmv@187.105.243.179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:09 -!- kmc [keegan@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu] has quit [Remote host closed 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connection] 21:32:26 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:33:07 pothos_ [~pothos@114-36-233-132.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:33:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-2.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:09 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-38-111.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:34:17 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-239-67.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:36:09 -!- pothos_ [~pothos@114-36-233-132.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:25 pothos [~pothos@114-36-233-132.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:39:04 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-233-132.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:24 pothos [~pothos@114-36-233-132.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:38 turbofail [~user@99-121-57-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:36 -!- metasyntax|work [~taylor@fw-its-kt209a-2.dyn.ipfw.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat [quit]] 21:49:24 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:42 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-56-167.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:58 ASau [~user@95-24-215-26.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:02:18 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:05:44 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 22:07:35 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:43 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 22:11:52 wingo: My jaw just dropped! (eq? (list) (list)) => #f 22:11:56 lol 22:12:49 i have been doing lots of thinkos recently :) dunno what the deal is :) 22:13:35 the (eq? (string) (string)) question is interesting tho 22:13:43 rudybot: (eq? (string) (string)) 22:13:43 wingo: your sandbox is ready 22:13:43 wingo: ; Value: #f 22:14:14 i have the dyslexic thing where I write can instead of can't and all their friends 22:14:29 leppie: list has to return a new list every time 22:14:38 rudybot: (string? (string)) 22:14:38 leppie: ; Value: #t 22:14:45 (let ((a (list)) (b (list))) (eq? a b)) <== false 22:14:58 LeoNerd: Not if it is empty, aka null 22:15:13 your Scheme is broken ;p 22:15:30 *LeoNerd* hunts R5 22:15:51 there's only supposed to be one null object, right? 22:15:54 Oh.. hah.. if it's empty, yes. 22:16:17 rudybot: (eq? ((lambda x x)) ((lambda x x))) 22:16:17 leppie: ; Value: #t 22:16:26 Sorry, I was thinking about (list 'a) (list 'a) 22:16:29 Ignore me :) 22:16:57 :] 22:17:49 I'm taking a break from writing a Perl Scheme VM today anyway, by writing some Perl code to drive a Template::Toolkit template that generates HTML pages from nroff documentation of a C library I've been writing. 22:17:59 but the issue is the r5rs language specifies that "list" returns a newly allocated list. 22:17:59 and doesn't specify an exception for the empty list. 22:17:59 anyway, a nit :) 22:17:59 So yaknow, I have quite a number of languages all mixed up in my head :) 22:18:26 no javascript tho :) 22:18:30 Hellno 22:18:45 rudybot: (eq? (call-with-values list (lambda () (values))) (call-with-values list (lambda () (values)))) 22:18:45 leppie: error: #: expects no arguments, given 1: '() 22:19:06 -!- dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:19:23 rudybot: (eq? (call-with-values (lambda () (values)) list) (call-with-values (lambda () (values)) list)) 22:19:23 leppie: ; Value: #t 22:19:48 rudybot: (eq? '() (list)) 22:19:48 leppie: ; Value: #t 22:20:44 -!- kvda [~kvda@124-169-134-221.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: x___x] 22:21:01 wingo: I think the correct answer is unspecified. It would be implementation specific if it possible interns some values say an empty string or vector 22:21:59 except (string) should return a fresh mutable string (as per R6RS I think) 22:22:15 rudybot: (eq? "" "") 22:22:15 leppie: ; Value: #f 22:22:20 ouch! 22:22:24 hehe 22:22:39 rudybot: (eq? '#() '#()) 22:22:39 leppie: ; Value: #f 22:22:40 literals are a different question of course 22:23:02 i would have expected racket to intern those... 22:23:16 R5 also says that eq? and eqv? must return #t for comparing the empty list to itself 22:24:59 '(), symbols and booleans are always comparable by eq?, else it just checks for pointer equality (that's how I understand it) 22:25:44 That's how it's intended, yeah 22:26:55 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:27:05 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:27:18 I find it a tiny bit awkward, 'cause it means that every implementation has to intern symbols 22:27:24 So as 'foo 'foo always compare eq? 22:27:52 wingo: I would just go with unspecified, there are too many 'variables' here to say yay or nay 22:28:28 yes LeoNerd, good practice would be to intern the symbols and hence only check for pointer equality 22:28:58 from an implemetors point of view 22:29:30 I wonder what is the ratio in this channel between implemetors and users 22:29:47 double typo, grrr 22:31:10 -!- fgudin [~fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:31:47 I'm here as a combination of learner and implementor 22:32:32 fgudin [~fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has joined #scheme 22:32:42 that's how I learnt, semantics before syntax 22:33:35 I have most of R5 now. The only real things I'm missing are vectors, and any distinction of numerical types. 22:34:06 Numbers exist, backed by Perl's numbers. No distinction of int/real/exact/etc... It'll do floats, but the parser won't recognise them as input yet. 22:37:45 albert [~albert@71.156.44.252] has joined #scheme 22:38:11 -!- albert is now known as Guest14456 22:41:02 -!- Guest14456 [~albert@71.156.44.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:50 leppie: KISS. :-P 22:46:00 rudybot: (eq? (call-with-values values list) (call-with-values values list)) 22:46:00 cky: your sandbox is ready 22:46:00 cky: ; Value: #t 22:46:30 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:06 rudybot: (eq? (call-with-values values vector) (call-with-values values vector)) 22:47:06 cky: ; Value: #f 22:47:14 rudybot: (eq? (call-with-values values string) (call-with-values values string)) 22:47:15 cky: ; Value: #f 22:58:49 -!- confab [~win7@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:01:51 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 23:02:26 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:35 So.. random thoughts: 'or' and 'and' have to be macros, so their short-circuiting works properly. Which means, among other things, I can't (apply or list-of-booleans) nor can I (fold or #f list-of-booleans) 23:03:38 -!- copumpkin is now known as AdmiralAckbar 23:03:45 you can (lambda (x y) (and x y)) though 23:04:25 Yeah.. I know. I just have an aversion to too many lambdas littering about the place. 23:04:33 maybe with a call/cc to escape early 23:04:34 -!- AdmiralAckbar is now known as copumpkin 23:04:52 LeoNerd: then give them a name like and-also / or-else 23:04:57 *LeoNerd* nod.. 23:05:29 Ohyes, it was more a question of what is the usual solution.? E.g. do implementations usually provide a standard function of some standard name, to handle this? 23:06:07 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #scheme 23:06:07 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 23:06:07 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 23:06:27 with absolutely no data to back this up, I assume using a lambda is probably the usual solution 23:06:40 :) 23:11:02 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-158-230.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:48 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 23:25:04 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:03 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:45 jeapostrophe [~jay@146.86.241.81] has joined #scheme 23:37:46 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-230.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:40:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:57:05 -!- stamourv [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]