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[~masm@bl19-149-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:45:56 hi 00:49:49 -!- chturne [~charles@host86-136-158-11.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:09 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-174-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:55:26 albert_ [~albert@24-205-85-84.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:56:48 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:36 *adu* <3 scm 01:08:17 -!- albert_ [~albert@24-205-85-84.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:32 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:14:52 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:18:52 -!- zarus [~dilange88@24.196.113.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:01 -!- ijp [~user@host86-183-35-200.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 01:21:28 ijp [~user@host86-183-35-200.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 01:21:37 -!- ijp [~user@host86-183-35-200.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has left #scheme 01:30:45 nobody uses scheme here... we all use COBOL 01:31:06 we do? 01:31:12 I thought it was FORTRAN-77 01:31:15 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:31:46 well yes, that too, for numerical applications 01:32:20 let's just use what is popular 01:32:26 LESS THINKING REQUIRED 01:34:26 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-150-63.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 01:34:26 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-150-63.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:34:26 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 01:34:37 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #scheme 01:34:37 these days i'm pretty sure programming languages are as much a social phenomenon as a technical one 01:34:58 Guest70640 [~wh@112.91.81.82] has joined #scheme 01:35:23 probably more so. 01:37:01 offby1: +1 01:37:07 offby1: now you're either off by zero, or two. 01:38:10 -!- bfig [~BFV@r186-48-208-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38:12 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:43:12 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:43:44 or confused. 01:46:28 jeapostr1phe [~jay@moab-cpe-74-213-198-133.dynamic.etv.net] has joined #scheme 01:46:29 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #scheme 01:50:59 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:51:23 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 01:51:48 -!- jeapostr1phe [~jay@moab-cpe-74-213-198-133.dynamic.etv.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:54:28 bfig [~BFV@r186-48-197-191.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 02:11:44 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-202.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 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[~s@96.26.105.154] has joined #scheme 05:38:06 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 05:38:23 xwl_ [user@nat/nokia/x-gygywsekyrqjiljo] has joined #scheme 05:38:32 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:38:52 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 05:40:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:40:36 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@47-241-76-76.cust.rcwmoab.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:41:48 albert [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:47:33 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-204.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:49:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-10.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:54:11 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:58:52 Is nil defined in mit-scheme? 05:59:58 (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) evaluates to -> unbound variable: nil in mit-scheme 06:00:22 albert: Use '() instead. 06:00:23 (define nil '()) ; now it is. 06:00:29 ;-) 06:01:21 What is the meaning of ()? the empty expression? 06:01:29 No. Empty list. 06:01:56 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:02:24 Thanks. 06:02:49 Is there a picture language from sicp implemented for mit-scheme? 06:05:20 Once nil is defined, will (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil) be equivalent to: (list 1 2 3)? 06:05:27 Yes. 06:05:32 hmm 06:05:40 rudybot: (define nil '()) 06:05:40 pjb: Done. 06:06:00 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:05 rudybot: (equal? (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) (list 1 2 3)) 06:06:06 pjb: ; Value: #t 06:09:16 Unfortunately I do not get same result, and I dont yet know the meaning of the ' character in front of the () when defining nil. 06:09:34 albert: you must read the 50 pages of r5rs. 06:09:55 albert: How can you write in a language if you're not able to read the 50-page language specifications? 06:11:11 I wanted to be able to get through sicp first, learning scheme as a result of what I read in sicp 06:11:22 the quote means that the sexp following it is not interpreted as code, but as literal data 06:11:25 Well, sicp doesn't teach scheme... 06:12:18 dardevelin [~dardeveli@5.114.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 06:12:35 -!- dardevelin [~dardeveli@5.114.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #scheme 06:22:13 nataraj [~nataraj@117.202.0.91] has joined #scheme 06:24:35 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:28:27 -!- albert [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 06:28:47 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.33.23] has joined #scheme 06:29:21 albert [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:32:02 tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:32:18 though it's possible to learn scheme from it 06:32:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.33.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:33:46 -!- albert [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:56:57 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-199-161.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 07:01:09 -!- tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:04:17 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:09:10 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:15:02 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:19:00 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.104] has joined #scheme 07:26:14 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:37:34 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:55:07 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 07:55:07 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:55:07 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:56:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:29 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-165-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:07 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:06:59 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-246.sibtele.com] has joined #scheme 08:24:11 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #scheme 08:26:14 fbs [fbs@fsf/member/fbs] has joined #scheme 08:26:31 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:27:37 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 08:30:14 otakutomo [~otakutomo@zaq771a4b1b.zaq.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:37:50 ASau [~user@95-27-174-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:41:16 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-222.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:56:29 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:01:43 -!- hba [~hba@187.171.200.241] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:04:49 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@zaq771a4b1b.zaq.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:45 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@117.202.0.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:25:03 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@87.61.170.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:29:55 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-173.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 09:47:26 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:03 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 09:50:08 choas [~lars@p5795C2DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:52:50 Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-240-120.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #scheme 09:53:12 if i had a list of lists say : (list (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8 9)) 09:53:21 then each element of the list is a list 09:53:43 and the car of each element is a list 09:53:48 or is it 1 4 7 09:53:57 Try it out! 09:54:02 rudybot: (map car (list (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8 9))) 09:54:03 pjb: ; Value: {1 4 7} 09:54:14 rudybot: (define a '((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9))) 09:54:14 cky: Done. 09:54:39 rudybot: (first a) 09:54:39 cky: ; Value: (1 2 3) 09:54:42 rudybot: (second a) 09:54:43 cky: ; Value: (4 5 6) 09:54:47 rudybot: (third a) 09:54:47 cky: ; Value: (7 8 9) 09:55:08 rudybot: (car (first a)) 09:55:09 cky: ; Value: 1 09:55:13 rudybot: (car (second a)) 09:55:13 cky: ; Value: 4 09:55:16 -!- choas [~lars@p5795C2DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:55:17 You get the idea. 09:55:48 but shouldn't the cdr of each element also a list? 09:55:52 and not 4 5 6 09:55:53 Sure. 09:55:57 as in 09:55:58 rudybot: (map cdr (list (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8 9))) 09:55:58 pjb: ; Value: {{2 3} {5 6} {8 9}} 09:56:02 the list and not the rest of the list 09:56:43 Operaist2: 1 4 7 doesn't exist in scheme. 09:56:58 Operaist2: either you have a list (1 4 7), or you have an atom such as 1. 09:57:22 sigh 09:57:22 Operaist2: when you'll stop talking of things that doesn't exist, you'll understand better. 09:57:28 you are the overly pedantic guy again 09:57:46 i never said 1 4 7 exists 09:57:47 btw 09:57:55 <10:51:25> or is it 1 4 7 09:58:00 Nothing can be 1 4 7 in scheme. 09:58:16 i never said it exist in scheme 09:58:21 No, you asked. 09:58:25 i asked what would be the car of each element 09:58:31 Why do you ask whether something can be something that cannot exist in scheme? 09:58:43 rudybot: (map car (list (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8 9))) 09:58:43 pjb: ; Value: {1 4 7} 09:58:46 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:50 The car of each element is the list (1 4 7). 09:58:51 what would be car of each element of the list then? 09:58:56 rudybot: (map car (list (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8 9))) 09:58:57 pjb: ; Value: {1 4 7} 09:59:06 How many times do we need to repeat it ? 09:59:14 it's a list because map returns a list 09:59:17 Yes. 09:59:22 Something that can exist in scheme. 09:59:22 i didn't ask whats map of car of the list 09:59:30 Yes you did. 09:59:34 nope 09:59:42 rudybot: (apply values (map car a)) 09:59:42 cky: ; Value: 1 09:59:42 i asked what would the car of each element be 09:59:43 cky: ; Value#2: 4 09:59:44 cky: ; Value#3: 7 09:59:50 There. Not a list. ;-) 09:59:52 "what would be car of each element of the list then?" is translated into scheme as "(map car list)". 10:00:04 Operaist2: stop talking English, start talking scheme! 10:00:11 did i ask you "what would be the car of each element as a list"? 10:00:19 Yes, you asked that. 10:00:25 <10:56:28> what would be car of each element of the list then? 10:00:35 or "what would be the car of each element as a output of the most trivial way to calculate it in scheme"? 10:00:42 And I translated it into scheme: 10:00:42 rudybot: (map car (list (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8 9))) 10:00:43 pjb: ; Value: {1 4 7} 10:01:12 you just assumed 10:01:19 Try to understand! 10:01:21 Operaist2: stop talking English, start talking scheme! 10:01:27 no you should try to understand 10:01:35 I understand scheme. 10:01:38 who are you to be pushing paradigm onto others 10:01:44 i can talk in whatever i want 10:01:53 I'm the one who knows scheme, and you're the one who doesn't. 10:01:55 and you just assume that every asnwer has to be scheme compatible 10:01:59 I'm the teacher, you're the student. 10:02:05 and? 10:02:07 This is #scheme. 10:02:20 so you know scheme and any thing you say is immediately right? 10:02:20 so every asnwer has to be scheme compatible. 10:02:24 nope 10:02:26 Yes. 10:02:27 that is simply false 10:02:36 i could ask a computer science question 10:02:37 for example 10:02:48 to which an answer needs not be scheme compatible 10:04:04 but you are just overly pedantic right-for-the-sake-of-being-right argumentative adversarial terrible teacher 10:04:12 only because you call yourself that 10:05:35 Lulz. 10:07:13 do you know of any place that will provide visualisation of data structure made using list/cadr? 10:07:48 Operaist2: One day, I want to write a program for that. Meanwhile, enjoy this pic: http://cloud9.hedgee.com/priv/expr1.png 10:08:27 whats the point of the pic? 10:08:44 Operaist2: It expresses how a specific S-expression is represented in tree form. 10:09:42 cky: in CL: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/picture/cons-to-ascii.lisp 10:09:42 http://tinyurl.com/7673zfw 10:10:00 There is probably already something like that written in scheme... 10:10:06 Awesome. :-) 10:10:22 I should write a version that generates .fig files, like my image was. 10:10:29 (I created that one by hand using xfig.) 10:10:43 Yes. And one that deals with circular structures and shared structures... 10:10:47 Yep! 10:11:30 * I might cheat and not actually draw lines, but instead just write in #8# and #8= instead ;-) ;-) ;-) 10:14:10 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 10:19:21 xwl [~user@pc4991.Princeton.EDU] has joined #scheme 10:22:59 so how is (map cdr (list (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8 9))) not ((4 5 6) (7 8 9))? 10:36:50 Why would it be? 10:37:04 i thought it wouldn't 10:37:13 wait 10:37:15 nvm 10:37:18 (cdr '(1 2 3))  '(2 3) 10:37:23 etc 10:37:35 because the list has all their elements as lists 10:37:47 so the cdr of the first element should be the second list 10:37:49 etc. 10:37:57 what? 10:40:25 the list (list (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8 9))) not ((4 5 6) (7 8 9))? 10:40:32 has 3 elements all of which are lists 10:40:37 yes 10:41:04 Do you understand what map is? 10:41:07 so the cdr of the first element should be the second list and car of the first element should be a pair (1, (list 2 3)) 10:41:20 yeah map applies a procedure to each element of a list 10:41:26 at least thats what i think it is 10:41:34 yes 10:42:02 no 10:42:08 Do you know what car and cdr are? 10:43:12 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:43:34 Operaist2: What is the first element of your list, and then, what is the CDR of this element? (since map will apply CDR to it) 10:45:09 the first element is a pair whose car is a list (1 2 3) and whose cdr is another pair with car as list (4 5 6) 10:47:00 http://postimage.org/image/f6l95v3lp/ 10:47:05 for what i see 10:48:24 What are those 3 in the bottom? 10:49:08 (map cdr the-list) 10:49:08 oh the result of the map? 10:53:24 kuribas [~user@d5152486A.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 10:54:05 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 10:54:43 yeah 10:55:17 so the first row is the list of lists and when you map cdr i assume it would apply to the first row and therefore would return other members of the first row 10:55:20 -!- xwl [~user@pc4991.Princeton.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:10 Operaist2: err, your list has three elements, A, B and C. Do you see that? 10:59:33 sure 10:59:38 the first element, A, what is it? 11:00:03 (list 1 2 3) 11:00:28 that is right. And this is *not* what you said at 19:43 (local time here) 11:01:33 if you map CDR to (list A B C), you'll obtain (list (cdr A) (cdr B) (cdr C)), as you (correctly) said at 19:39: < Operaist2> yeah map applies a procedure to each element of a list 11:02:17 from this, I guess you can find out what the result of (map cdr (list (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8 9))) is, and why it is so. 11:02:21 what did i say at 1943 your local time? 11:02:28 19:43 < Operaist2> the first element is a pair whose car is a list (1 2 3) and whose cdr is another pair with car as list (4 5 6) 11:03:51 the first element (which I called A) is (1 2 3). There is no (4 5 6) anywhere in this first element. 11:04:11 -!- pyro- [~pyro@zhaozhou.dcollins.info] has left #scheme 11:05:27 is there a list of primitive list functions that can be expected to exist in most schemes? 11:05:41 e.g. an is-list-empty predicate 11:05:52 sshine: that's NULL? 11:06:25 There are at least those you'll find in R5RS, and you might (with little to no hassle) have access to those in SRFI-1 11:07:45 Some schemes will have them hardcoded, others will have them with some input/include/load/library, and others will require to copy/paste the reference implementation in SRFI-1 11:18:12 Axioplase_, thanks, null? was what I was looking for. 11:25:12 webben [~benjamin@173-203-84-17.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #scheme 11:37:01 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:38:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-173.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:25 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:45:53 add^_ [~add^_^@h169n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 12:00:30 I'd like to write some Emacs extensions, but I'd like to use Scheme. 12:01:28 I see that there are Scheme interpreters in Emacs LISP, but I wonder if there is an Emacs clone written with Scheme. 12:02:27 it doesn't even have to be Emacs, I'd just like an editor extendable by Scheme. :) 12:04:16 it seems like most LISP systems have their own sets of editors integrated with the LISP environment. 12:08:19 cool stories 12:10:53 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 12:13:23 yeah, except I end up with a billion archaic systems I don't want to use. 12:13:41 -!- Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-240-120.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:15:27 sshine: Sounds like Edwin's your editor. :-) 12:15:32 It's an Emacs clone written in Scheme. 12:18:16 cky, I'll check it out, thanks! 12:20:02 masm [~masm@bl15-70-206.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:29:23 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 12:37:01 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-202.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:38:23 :-) 12:42:49 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46:13 hmm, this is confusing for me: (define (foo x) (define (bar y) (+ x y)) (bar x)). I think I can derive the semantics, but it makes me not want to nest (define)s. 13:00:53 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:03:00 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:24 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 13:10:45 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:14:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.104] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 13:14:21 sshine: I don't like nested defines either. 13:14:45 (define (foo x) (let ((bar (lambda (y) (+ x y)))) (bar x))) is so much clearer to me. 13:17:06 ijp [~user@host86-182-152-90.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 13:18:49 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:19:20 pjb, but what my problem is that my helper function needs to be recursive. 13:19:54 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 13:20:04 (define (foo x) (letrec ((bar (lambda (y) (if (= 0 y) 0 (+ x y (bar (- y 1))))))) (bar x))) 13:20:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126775 -- can someone comment on my style? 13:20:20 ahh, letrec. 13:22:26 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:22:38 much nicer. no comments needed yet, then. :) 13:22:49 albert [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 13:23:58 I guess if you have a lot of local functions, local define might be nice. But I prefer let or letrec. 13:24:36 (But I'm mostly a Common Lisper, so better ask schemers). 13:24:45 yeah, I don't know... I guess it depends on how your compilation units are scoped. 13:25:23 local define should be translated to let/letrec automatically... 13:25:25 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:34 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:27:58 except it seems I can use a local define in the global scope afterwards. 13:28:28 then your scheme is broken 13:28:41 probably! I use BiwaScheme of repl.it 13:29:12 so local defines are synonymous to let/letrec. that's nice to know. 13:30:08 Well, letrec*, since people generally want sequential binding 13:30:25 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:30:55 right. 13:38:41 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #scheme 13:43:37 -!- kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-246.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:44:35 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:45 djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 13:45:19 kpal [~kpal@217.12.71.138] has joined #scheme 13:53:38 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:54:38 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #scheme 13:58:16 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:01:13 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-204.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:06:59 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-222.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:32 kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 14:07:32 -!- kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Changing host] 14:07:32 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 14:13:31 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-222.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:21:24 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:26:16 tupi [~david@189.119.217.237] has joined #scheme 14:28:34 -!- albert [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:13 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #scheme 14:37:44 woohoo! my first scheme program that solves a problem: https://gist.github.com/1540128 14:39:31 Bfig [~BFV@r186-48-193-174.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 14:40:03 hello. what is an example of something i can do with a macro that i can't do without them? 14:42:40 Write 'if', perhaps. 14:44:57 fds, what about delaying and forcing things_ 14:45:12 if is just cond with delays, isn't it? 14:46:03 delay is also a macro 14:46:37 ok, i don't think i know how to reduce that anymore 14:46:44 and if is a special case of cond 14:46:57 I don't see how laziness would play into one, but not the other 14:47:44 mmm my mind short circuited to the most reasonable explanation for fds's assertion 14:49:38 -!- kpal [~kpal@217.12.71.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:51:48 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has joined #scheme 14:58:27 is there either a member? function or exists? function? 14:58:34 in what? 14:58:58 in R5RS or something like that. 14:59:17 member of what? 14:59:21 of lists. 14:59:34 ah, the member function. 14:59:37 rudybot: eval (member 1 '(1 2 3 4)) 14:59:39 ijp: your sandbox is ready 14:59:39 ijp: ; Value: (1 2 3 4) 14:59:44 rudybot: eval (member 100 '(1 2 3 4)) 14:59:44 ijp: ; Value: #f 14:59:50 cool, thanks. 15:00:52 Bfig: for some macro exercises, see ch0,1,2,3,4,5,7 here (problem stated at the top, just avoid looking at my solutions ;) http://telegraphics.com.au/svn/puzzles/trunk/quad/ 15:02:20 quadrescence made those exercises for you_ 15:02:23 ? 15:08:37 Bfig: yes 15:08:45 cool 15:09:02 ijp` [~user@host86-162-108-174.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:09:32 Bfig: i'm sure he can invent some more when he's back from his offline vacation 15:09:57 he's been guiding me so far in learning scheme 15:10:05 oh! 15:10:14 :D 15:10:26 well, he told me to read sicp and has helped me in some particular problems 15:10:29 -!- ijp [~user@host86-182-152-90.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:30 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 15:10:48 Bfig: same here. he guided me to Scheme first when I was thinking of CL. and he's helping me with CL and SML 15:11:53 great guy = ) 15:13:01 -!- NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:13:24 Bfig: very much so. I'd be a rudderless student without him. 15:16:34 a good guy = ), maybe, but a great guy balances his parentheses! 15:16:58 qu1j0t3, when did you start learning SML? 15:19:34 ( a great guy =) 15:21:08 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:21:11 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:14 hehe 15:21:45 http://xkcd.com/859/ 15:23:51 sshine: a few months ago. been reading ML for the Working Programmer, Harper, Pucella, and so on. haven't done anything non-trivial in it yet. 15:24:24 sshine: finding it quite stimulating though. previously I was interested in Ocaml. 15:25:56 chturne [~charles@host86-136-158-11.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:30:33 qu1j0t3, I read a little on O'Caml before I started studying CS. on the introductory course they used Standard ML, so I've been using that until now. 15:30:54 sshine: how you liking it? 15:31:24 qu1j0t3, I like it, but I miss overloading, bignums, a better standard library. 15:31:34 hm, the implementation i use has bignums 15:31:37 they're in Basis 15:31:43 qu1j0t3, I mean transparent bignums. 15:31:47 o 15:31:49 yeah 15:31:53 easy to miss. 15:32:06 I prefer bignums by default too (Erlang, etc) 15:32:42 qu1j0t3, I used SML to solve Project Euler, which ended up being annoying because of its lack of syntactic sugar for bignums. =) 15:32:50 sshine: Oh! I plan to do the same thing!! 15:33:02 qu1j0t3, you mean solve Project Euler with SML? 15:33:05 sshine: how far did you get? 15:33:06 sshine: yes 15:33:27 qu1j0t3, I just started doing them with Scheme after three years of not doing them. 15:33:59 qu1j0t3, it seems that I've solved 22 of them using Standard ML. 15:34:25 qu1j0t3, sorry, that's probably around 15 with Standard ML, and the rest is Python. 15:34:38 and one with Scheme now! 15:34:56 wow, 22. only got to around 12 or 13; I first used Icon for Euler. 15:35:06 Icon, with transparent bignums :D 15:35:16 err... there's a few that are solved mathematically. I had a discrete mathematics course that allowed me to convert some recursive functions into explicit functions on paper. 15:35:30 yeah, i think that's encouraged 15:35:42 I saw one guy who solved like 50 problems on paper. 15:35:47 :D 15:35:53 sshine: maybe Quadrescence ;-) 15:35:56 (ones that specifically lend themselves to it, of course) 15:38:23 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 16:09:09 -!- ijp [~user@host86-162-108-174.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:38 albert_ [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:19:02 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.104] has joined #scheme 16:20:34 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 16:23:51 confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:28:23 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 16:41:49 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:09 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:53:16 -!- chturne [~charles@host86-136-158-11.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: To iterate is human, to recurse divine] 16:54:03 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:01:20 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 17:03:46 JoelMcCracken [~user@c-71-60-19-216.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:03:49 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:35 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:09:47 How do I "reset" the environment in the mit-scheme interpreter? 17:10:54 I think previous definitions of car and cdr that I defined in exercises are being used versus the standard libraries provided with mit-scheme 17:18:12 kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 17:18:12 -!- kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Changing host] 17:18:12 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 17:22:49 They're not, albert_. But you can restart Scheme, or use (ge (extend-top-level-environment system-global-environment)) to enter a fresh environment if you like. 17:28:03 Riastradh: (ge (extend-top-level-environment system-global-environment)) worked. 17:28:21 car and cdr are working as expected now. 17:29:41 (emacs + scheme interpreter have been up for days as I go over sicp, and I think the car and cdr I defined which are not full implementations caused me problems. 17:32:49 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:28 *poof* 17:36:15 ijp [~user@host86-171-27-70.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:37:38 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:15 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:42:36 -!- albert_ [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-173.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:49:24 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:02:15 albert_ [~albert@adsl-71-156-44-252.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:03 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:05:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:05:37 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b71f5.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 18:06:12 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:08:55 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 18:09:44 -!- kuribas [~user@d5152486A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:37 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:11 how do I construct a pair of non-quoted values? 18:15:27 arf, cons. 18:18:38 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:29 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 18:25:38 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:55 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0a3be7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 18:33:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:33:23 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0a3be7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:35:17 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 18:41:35 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #scheme 18:49:01 okay, so... 18:49:22 I've got a function that has a bunch of bindings and then two mutually recursive functions 18:50:37 how would you structure that? (define (foo x) (let (...) (define rec1 ...) (define rec2 ...) ...)? 18:50:56 I decided that having the bindings as (define)s seemed unclean. 18:51:49 oh... letrec supports mutual recursion. 18:51:58 Is the picture language from sicp implemented in mit-scheme? 18:54:00 albert_, what's the picture language? 18:54:38 ah, found it. 18:55:36 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/sicp/book/node36.html 19:00:54 wingo [~wingo@cpe-174-108-110-115.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:06:22 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-222.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:56 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-202.vinet.ba] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:08:56 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:08:56 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:08:56 -!- stchang [~stchang@syrah.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:08:56 -!- Rotham [~R@174.33.144.42] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:08:56 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [*.net 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has joined #scheme 19:25:47 ASau` [~user@95-27-174-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 19:25:53 incubot: How's your spinal flexion? 19:25:57 but flexion is more regular? or about the same? probably like in french sounds the same but means something totally different... 19:26:23 !! 19:26:57 *qu1j0t3* prostrates 19:27:16 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:37 incubot: How's your spinal extension? 19:29:40 fact that 47 PEOPLE are yelling and sweat is cascading down my SPINAL COLUMN is fairly enjoyable!! 19:29:49 o 19:31:09 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 19:31:49 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:34 qu1j0t3: Enjoying your Twitter-invective on the war, by the way. 19:34:43 -!- kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:36:00 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has joined #scheme 19:36:37 incubot: are you or are you not fit to be with pigs 19:36:40 Any guinea pigs around here to try that out? 19:38:57 klutometis: :) 19:40:39 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 19:41:04 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 19:43:22 -!- kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:03 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has joined #scheme 19:54:58 Riastradh: I thought you might be pleased to know that there is a bona fide ligature for `&c.': . 19:55:04 Too bad it didn't make the Unicode-cut. 19:56:37 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b71f5.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:02:35 klutometis: hm, very interesting. thanks for the link. 20:08:38 -!- kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:54 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has joined #scheme 20:12:09 -!- drdo [~drdo@drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:13:22 Ive been trying to come up with an elegant solution to the function that produces the reverse of a list 20:14:48 A elegant solution would be one that does not find the last pair if that is possible... 20:15:37 (list 1 2 3) 20:15:59 drdo [~drdo@drdo.eu] has joined #scheme 20:16:15 Mechanically, the reverse of this list is (cons 3 (cons 2 (cons 1 '()))) 20:17:45 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:17:54 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 20:21:01 I came close: 20:22:10 (((5 . 4) . 3) . 1) 20:24:31 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:41 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:04 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest845 20:27:01 -!- Guest845 is now known as X-Scale 20:32:41 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:06 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:35:58 samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined 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21:30:56 dsofij 21:33:20 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:34:40 albert_: Paste your code here and send us a link: . 21:40:32 Here is a link at my attempts at reverse: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126784 I am in the middle of a attempt to use a accumulator approach. 21:40:55 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-95-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:49 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:07 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:18 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 21:48:29 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:49:41 Using a accumulator list, I successfully wrote a function to reverse: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126785 21:51:09 -!- tauntaun [~user@li327-197.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:51:10 -!- yosafbridge 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