00:00:45 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-61-74.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:04:23 Karl_H [~Karl_H@f048172070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 00:07:13 NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:16:04 -!- woonie [~woonie@bb219-74-160-94.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 00:17:03 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@f048172070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #scheme 00:18:11 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:18:49 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-107-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:19:23 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-63-245.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 00:21:56 huangho [~vitor@189.27.249.224.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #scheme 00:24:04 bfig: I would love to learn how to program scheme with a schemer mind. 00:24:08 *arthurmaciel* *sigh* 00:24:51 the only benefit I had about learning C and stuff related to it was to understand what other programmers were talking about. 00:25:30 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:26:10 arthurmaciel: I think you can reach your goal. Just keep studying and practicing. SICP is a terrific way to go. 00:26:11 arthurmaciel: learn sicp. 00:26:34 *qu1j0t3* +1's pjb for brevity 00:27:13 it would be hilarious (within this context) to say pjb++ 00:27:24 learning C can be pretty important for fixing and/or making your own scheme implementation 00:27:24 arthurmaciel: oh, i normally would do that. :) 00:27:32 arthurmaciel: INC PJB 00:27:42 qu1j0t3: better 00:27:46 turbofail: lol 00:27:59 *qu1j0t3* thinks turbofail was serious ;-) 00:28:40 shouldn't we be able to make our own scheme implementation using scheme itself?? 00:28:46 arthurmaciel: certainly 00:28:56 arthurmaciel: on this score, Turing rules little out. :D 00:29:20 that works great until you get to the bottom turtle, which probably has a few bits of C in it somewhere 00:30:14 unless you're using dream scheme, in which case it's assembly 00:30:30 turbofail: what if we allow an FPGA 00:30:41 turbofail: then it's VHDL/Verilog, yes, but ignoring that :D 00:30:47 turbofail: what's above that? 00:31:08 turbofail: maybe something more interesting than C? 00:31:16 *qu1j0t3* doesn't know, hasn't attempted it, but just might 00:31:42 that could in principle result in an entirely schemely stack 00:31:54 fun to try eh? 00:32:03 though it would have to get bootstrapped by a C-dependent scheme 00:32:21 though some bootstraps are done by hand, no? 00:32:39 -!- choas [~lars@p4FDC59D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33:18 turbofail: Bootstrapping aside, it should be possible to make a Scheme implementation that is written in Scheme. 00:34:04 *fully in Scheme 00:34:31 (Many Scheme implementations I know of are already largely written in Scheme. Stalin, for example, is a great example of this.) 00:34:40 confab [~confab@c-71-193-9-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:53 sure, but stalin still has a decent amount of C stubbage 00:35:08 and you definitely need to know C to make sense of it when it screws up 00:35:49 Sure. 00:35:55 we can minimise the stuggabe i mean stubbage 00:36:09 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:38 stubborn cabbage 00:36:39 also stalin in particular is dependent on the boehm gc 00:37:05 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-61-74.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:37:09 and in any case, i don't think compiling to C can reasonably count as not depending on C 00:38:10 chez scheme's compiler is, as i understand it, entirely in scheme though 00:38:25 stubbage cabborn 00:38:27 retargetable would be the ideal 00:38:43 today C, tomorrow JavaScript, and on Thursday, some bizarre FPGA'd ISA. 00:40:03 xpololz [~xpol@50.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 00:40:19 and chez scheme manages to avoid stalin's ridiculous compile times by enforcing a strict policy of only allowing optimizations that increase the performance of the compiler itself 00:40:23 at least machine descriptions can be data. 00:41:07 qu1j0t3: And in GCC, it is. 00:41:18 good night, guys 00:41:26 turbofail: gcc's definition of -O0 was "compile as cheaply as possible" 00:41:27 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 00:41:28 qu1j0t3: Though GCC does depend on an assembler. 00:41:47 cky: yes... there will always be some downstream tool... 00:42:51 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:43:22 qu1j0t3: that's not quite the same thing... chez's policy is to do the optimizations, but only if they make the already existing optimization passes run faster 00:43:32 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:04 by "policy" i mean what they decide to include, not what the compiler decides to do at compile time 00:44:28 turbofail: yeah it's not the same thing at all, I know. what you said is more interesting :) 00:48:25 -!- arthurmaciel [~user@186.204.126.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:52:03 huh... the chez scheme website has no information whatsoever about how much a license costs 00:52:28 oh well, i probably wouldn't have paid for it anyway 00:53:00 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:11 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 00:56:54 ddp_ [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #scheme 00:58:29 -!- xpololz [~xpol@50.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:59:03 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-157-26.relakks.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:00:50 turbofail: If you have to ask, you can't afford it. ;-) 01:01:06 -!- ddp_ [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:01:08 turbofail: I seem 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[5059c04f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.89.192.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:49:42 add^_ [~add^_^@h100n5c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 17:02:43 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 17:05:48 kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 17:05:48 -!- kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Changing host] 17:05:48 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 17:13:44 m1s13k [m1s13k@unaffiliated/m1s13k] has joined #scheme 17:13:48 hello 17:14:36 i would like to ask you why my function doesnt work properly 17:14:52 here is: (memf (lambda (arg) (= (car arg) 2)) '((2 3 3 1) (1 0 1 3) (2 0 1 2) (3 3 2 1) (2 0 1 2) (4 3 2 1) (1 3 3 0) (3 0 0 3) (1 0 0 6) (4 3 6 0) (3 1 2 2) (4 1 2 2))) 17:15:38 i need lists with 2 as first element 17:16:40 charli [~charli@e181214036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 17:17:53 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #scheme 17:18:48 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 17:20:54 It all depends on the definition of memf. 17:21:32 mem style functions return the list starting from the first match, it doesn't filter out only the ones that match 17:22:44 rudybot: (let ((x '())) (memf (lambda (z) (set! x (cons z x)) (= (car z) 2)) '((1 0 1 3) (2 0 1 2) (3 3 2 1))) x) 17:22:44 pjb: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: memf in module: 'program 17:22:53 chrilisch [~chrilisch@e181214036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 17:23:12 m1s13k: try my expression. What do you get? 17:23:58 wait 17:25:11 pjb: result is: ((2 0 1 2) (1 0 1 3)) 17:25:28 -!- charli [~charli@e181214036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:56 And what do you get for (memf (lambda (arg) (= (car arg) 2)) '((2 3 3 1) (1 0 1 3) (2 0 1 2) (3 3 2 1) (2 0 1 2) (4 3 2 1) (1 3 3 0) (3 0 0 3) (1 0 0 6) (4 3 6 0) (3 1 2 2) (4 1 2 2))) ? 17:26:33 m1s13k: mem(ber|q|v|p) is for testing whether an element is in a list, not filtering it 17:27:06 m1s13k: you were asking, "is there a list beginning with 2?" 17:27:22 m1s13k: use 'filter' instead 17:27:27 pjb: i got: ((2 3 3 1) (1 0 1 3) (2 0 1 2) (3 3 2 1) (2 0 1 2) (4 3 2 1) (1 3 3 0) (3 0 0 3) (1 0 0 6) (4 3 6 0) (3 1 2 2) (4 1 2 2)) 17:27:39 ijp: ok 17:28:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:16 m1s13k: that looks correct. What else did you expect? 17:28:32 (member 2 '(1 2 3 4)) --> (2 3 4) 17:28:57 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:08 oh, i dont think that memf can work as you show 17:30:13 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 17:33:51 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:37:33 thanks very much, filter works as i need 17:39:32 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 17:40:09 -!- chrilisch [~chrilisch@e181214036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:23 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hlatkfqqhhponspb] has joined #scheme 17:46:26 technokid [~technokid@117.239.6.66] has joined #scheme 17:46:46 -!- technokid [~technokid@117.239.6.66] has quit [Client Quit] 17:50:34 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:54:29 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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