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[~nobody@74.127.215.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:50:08 sphex [~nobody@74.127.215.20] has joined #scheme 03:50:19 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:53:03 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:57:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 03:57:34 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:57:45 grettke [~grettke@CPE-65-31-124-179.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:03:20 is Nick Gasson usually here, the author of swank-chicken? on what nick? 04:03:57 -!- grettke [~grettke@CPE-65-31-124-179.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:05:44 grettke [~grettke@CPE-65-31-124-179.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:05:44 Gasson. Nick Gasson. Noone else! :-) 04:06:16 -!- grettke [~grettke@CPE-65-31-124-179.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:07:38 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:08:58 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:13:24 the scheme swank situation is disappointing... at least 3 parallel efforts without any coordination... 04:13:51 *attila_lendvai* is writing a mail to slime-devel, trying to organize efforts 04:14:23 That's sort of what happens in the so-called Scheme community. 04:16:16 I thought I can't be disappointed coming from the CL community... :D 04:16:33 better than 0 efforts 04:16:57 (although, recently the situation there in progressing well with quicklisp and the asdf2 effort) 04:17:04 s/in/is/ 04:17:05 Quicklisp is a Good Thing. 04:17:13 *freakazoid* googles 04:17:15 I hope Snow2 will take off 04:17:36 so, r6rs is generally not very welcomed, right? 04:17:53 *freakazoid* googles and finds "Snow 2: Brain Freeze" 04:17:56 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.231] has joined #scheme 04:18:18 I mean, one of the swank efforts is in the official slime repo, but it's r6rs based... while neither of the two more functional ones are 04:18:19 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 04:18:25 Racket has a lot of features from r6rs 04:18:46 but I guess the most crucial component is the module system... 04:18:59 that's probably the major source of clutter 04:19:55 but I doubt one can't organize three goddamn files, where one contains the shared functionality and loaded whatever way the scheme vm provides 04:23:44 attila_lendvai: I'd say that R6RS implementations are often quite good, especially Racket and Chez. The others tend to be immature. The trouble with R6RS as a standard is that it's hard for an R5RS-with-lots-of-extensions implementation to become an R6RS implementation. 04:23:58 Racket can handle it because it already has the concept of multiple languages. 04:28:23 so, the situation is something like: having a portable swank-scheme based on r6rs is a good thing to pursue, but I should expect bugs and headaches along the way due to r6rs immaturities? 04:29:34 No, not if you are providing it for Racket and Chez. If you expect it to work in Ikarus/Vicare, Mosh, Larceny, Ypsilon, or IronScheme, you may have problems. 04:29:39 Not "will have", just "may have". 04:29:40 Portable R6RS Swank? Not worthwhile. 04:30:33 It wouldn't be able to do much that's particularly interesting. 04:30:37 Riastradh: what would you describe as worthwhile regarding swank on scheme? (my primary target is gambit, but I don't want to waste efforts on something unportable...) 04:31:37 Riastradh: what I mean is not r6rs *only*, but r6rs based (e.g. module system) with backend specific extensions, just like the official slime has backend specific code... 04:33:50 Almost all Schemes have a module system of some sort, but non-R6RS systems don't agree on what it is. 04:34:47 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:37:28 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:38:53 *jcowan* hopes that R7RS modules will see wider adoption 04:39:23 For what Schemes are you going to implement them and integrate them into the system? 04:40:23 Personally, probably none. However, various other folks have said they will do so. 04:41:25 Not, I hasten to add, in the form of an ironclad commitment. 04:41:46 If not in the form of an ironclad commitment, what about the form of real working code? 04:49:22 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:49:23 It's a bit early to expect people to add R7RS to their existing implementations, given that it's not yet stabilized. 04:49:46 Does that mean there's no real working code demonstrating that what you're standardizing actually makes any sense? 04:53:24 There's Chibi. 04:53:42 It is the de facto reference / proof of concept implementation. 04:53:54 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:54:00 But of course, working code does not demonstrate that something makes sense, only that it is implementable. 04:55:34 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 05:02:21 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 05:11:41 -!- GoKhlayeh [~GoKhlayeh@161.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:17:47 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:19 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:21:19 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-151-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:22:55 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:29:56 platinuum [~platinuum@S0106602ad06b80ad.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 05:55:37 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:58:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-251.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:07:55 -!- bipartite [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:18:16 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:27:29 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:31:58 jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.225] has joined #scheme 06:36:39 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 06:37:18 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:37:23 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:41:15 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:33 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 06:49:22 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:55:47 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:11 lastwill [~will@89.16.0.166] has joined #scheme 07:08:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-251.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:08 -!- djcb` [~user@a88-112-255-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:33 -!- lastwill [~will@89.16.0.166] has left #scheme 07:23:11 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:40:35 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:47:14 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 07:47:32 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-uppoaknipomeowfb] has joined #scheme 07:51:27 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:56:51 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:27 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-d9bfca79.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03:33 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 08:05:42 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbec563.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 08:20:50 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 08:46:00 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:47:46 keenbug [~daniel@p4FE393CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:50:25 tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has joined #scheme 09:04:38 i1126 [~i1126@xdsl-78-34-248-140.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:08:37 masm [~masm@2.80.161.129] has joined #scheme 09:10:49 -!- i1126 [~i1126@xdsl-78-34-248-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:20:48 Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-226-170.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #scheme 09:20:52 how do i compare 2 bools? 09:21:05 = doesn't work 09:21:07 integer-equal 09:22:45 rjcks [~richard@124.225.78.67] has joined #scheme 09:25:16 Operaist2: all that is not false is true. 09:25:29 Operaist2: (define (equiv a b) (eqv? (not a) (not b))) 09:26:51 that doesnt help at all lol 09:29:04 Why not? 09:29:10 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 09:31:02 i want to compare a bunch of stuff 09:31:12 like (= (maybetrue?) (maybefalse?)) 09:31:16 that doesn't work 09:31:18 No, you asked how to compare two boools. 09:31:27 yeah 09:31:30 im comparing bools 09:31:41 I provided a function to compare bools. 09:32:01 wat? 09:32:08 Are you idiot? 09:32:12 no 09:32:16 im pretty sure you are tho 09:32:19 Then why don't you understand? 09:32:25 why would you not the parameters before hand? 09:32:28 unless youre an idiot? 09:32:43 "why would you not the parameters before hand?" syntax error. 09:33:04 "random gibberish" comprehension error. 09:33:14 According to r5rs eq? and eqv? are capable to compare booleans. 09:33:25 thx bro 09:33:47 gravicappa: all that is not false is true. 09:34:08 sky is blue 09:34:12 sun rises in the east 09:34:15 1 + 1 = 2 09:34:18 am i smart yet? 09:34:38 (map (lambda (a) (map (lambda (b) (list a b (equiv a b))) '(#f true))) '(#f true)) --> (((#f #f #t) (#f true #f)) ((true #f #f) (true true #t))) 09:35:16 rudybot: (define (equiv a b) (eqv? (not a) (not b))) 09:35:17 pjb: your r5rs sandbox is ready 09:35:17 pjb: Done. 09:35:24 rudybot: (equiv #f #f) 09:35:24 pjb: ; Value: #t 09:35:28 rudybot: (equiv 'true 42) 09:35:29 pjb: ; Value: #t 09:35:40 rudybot: (equiv 1 #f) 09:35:40 pjb: ; Value: #f 09:36:32 I thought that Operaist2 wants to compare booleans. 09:36:46 gravicappa: yes. false is a boolean. It's true. 09:36:57 rudybot: (if 'false 'true 'false) 09:36:57 pjb: ; Value: true 09:37:31 (boolean? 'false) => #f 09:37:34 pjb is being overly complicated and difficult to feel smart 09:37:36 it's ok 09:38:19 gravicappa: he didn't say boolean, he said bools. 09:39:25 Oh, I see. 09:39:26 Operaist2: maybe you start to judge someone only when you understand him 09:40:58 Operaist2: and as I see you are new to scheme, and if you then don't understand what somebody tells you to help you this doesn't mean you didn't help you at all or told you something which won't help you at all, only because you don't know what he means 09:41:28 s/mean you didn't/mean he didn't/ 09:42:04 okay, I know, I expressed that a little bit overcomplicated :D 09:42:12 :-) 09:43:39 Operaist2: and to come to your question 09:43:52 -!- bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:43:56 so if i go to a doctor and he told me my HCDB is slightly lower than average and that my some-latin-word is some-latin-word and that i might need some-more-latin-words and some magicaldrugox that would be helpful? 09:44:08 Operaist2: you can compare two booleans just by using eq? or eqv? 09:44:26 as demonstrated in: (define (equiv a b) (eqv? (not a) (not b))) 09:44:33 also he called me an idiot 09:44:36 Operaist2: yeah, he may have jumped over some explanations 09:44:42 no 09:45:06 he is making an overly complicated answer to be overly pedantic and completely oblivious to his audience 09:45:17 like some scientist in an ivory tower 09:45:22 that was because of your reaction "that doesn't help at all lol" 09:45:30 How a 7-word answer can be overly complicated? 09:45:33 well it didn't help at all 09:45:36 shoudl i say the opposite? 09:45:46 if you didn't understand him you should ask some more questions 09:45:53 bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #scheme 09:45:54 i didn't know what to ask 09:45:56 in which points you didn't understand it 09:46:00 because his answer was some weird function 09:46:19 then just say that you don't know what he means by that 09:46:25 which i did 09:46:39 but saying "that doesn't help" is not the proper reaction 09:46:59 pretty sure with common-sense transform (that didn't help at all lol) <-> (i don't understand anything you say) 09:47:04 Operaist2: You just didn't try to understand either my 7-word English sentence, or my 3-operation function. 09:47:40 apparently bools are not booleans 09:47:42 okay, can we just forget that all and go on, I don't think that will help now 09:47:47 Calling weird a function that calls 3 functions, or overly complicated a 7-word sentence justify my wondering about your capabilities. 09:48:12 and? 09:48:36 if you wonder about my capability you should have made your answer more understandable by the incapable me 09:48:44 but you did not do that 09:48:46 Indeed, bools and boolean are different. boolean? returns true only for #f and #t. But any lisp value has a truth value. They are all true, apart from #f. 09:48:57 please just calm down, I think everyone will agree that on irc channels there should not be any personal wars/fights/whatever 09:49:13 oh he started this by calling me an idiot 09:49:15 I didn't because you didn't show you were making any effort to understand. All this discussion proves it. 09:49:18 okay, and that was the missing explanation 09:49:41 I mean the difference of bools and booleans 09:49:49 where 09:50:06 he just said they are different and that boolean? does stuff 09:50:12 how is that a complete explanation? 09:50:15 okay, may we just start this from beginning 09:50:18 keenbug: "all that is not false is true." means the difference between bools and booleans. 09:50:38 all that is not false is true? 09:50:41 is a tautology 09:50:43 omg 09:50:56 What is false in scheme is #f. All that is not #f is true. 09:51:06 pjb: yeah, but I think at first he just asked for a function, he didn't come to the point where he could run into this problem 09:51:06 1) The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club. 09:51:24 keenbug: I provided a function. I called it weird! 09:51:32 s/I called/He called/ 09:52:22 pjb: yeah, maybe because he's just a beginner and didn't come to understand that function, I don't know 09:52:33 He just didn't try. 09:52:37 but is it possible to calm down 09:52:45 all, please 09:53:09 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:32 I mean, as I see it, both made some mistakes in communication, on the one side just to dismiss the explanation just by saying this is weird instead of asking further 09:54:52 and on the other side calling somebody an idiot is also an overheated reaction 09:55:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:56:13 okay, so we can go back to the explanation 09:56:17 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:56:20 does finnrobi just wait around the channel to post that? 09:56:44 hey, can we stop fighting others? 09:57:45 Operaist2: I would try to explain to you what pjb said/wanted to say/meant 09:58:06 Operaist2: the function you searched for is, as I already said, eq? or eqv? 09:58:35 but the problem is that most functions in Scheme don't just return #t if they mean something is true 09:59:14 so every value except for #f can mean true 09:59:20 -!- amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:31 so also if and cond interpret any value except for #f as true 09:59:37 amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 10:00:26 now, if you compare the two values you get from calling two functions, say exists and memq 10:00:52 they can both return some value like 4 and (3 4 5) and do both mean true 10:01:10 but if you would compare them by eq? or eqv? you would get #f 10:01:21 because they are apparently not equal 10:01:53 so pjb used not, which converts everything which can mean true into #f and #f into #t 10:02:17 so then you would have only #f or #t, which you now can compare by eq? 10:02:23 so (not 4) would be #f 10:02:31 and (not '(3 4 5)) would be also #f 10:03:17 Operaist2: was that explanatory enough? or did I miss something? 10:03:37 -!- amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:10 Code is not meant to be written, but to be read... 10:04:25 -!- platinuum [~platinuum@S0106602ad06b80ad.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Peace] 10:04:33 amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 10:04:56 thx keenbug that explained it 10:05:29 pjb: what do you mean? I mean I know what you mean, but I don't understand why you said that 10:06:31 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.234.22] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 10:07:09 pjb: or what you referred to 10:07:47 I mean that all you wrote was contained in: (define (equiv a b) (eqv? (not a) (not b))) 10:07:54 All one has to do, is to read it. 10:08:35 -!- amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:08:43 yes, of course it was, but beginners aren't used to scheme and maybe to programming 10:08:57 so there may be the need for some more explanation 10:09:38 -!- Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-226-170.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111115184056]] 10:09:45 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #scheme 10:10:18 pjb: yeah, and I had no problems to understand what you meant, that's the prove for that, all I explained was of course what you said 10:13:35 okay, i've got to go 10:13:41 see you 10:13:58 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FE393CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:19:09 amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 10:19:52 add^_ [~add^_^@h153n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #scheme 10:23:08 -!- amgarching 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host] 15:45:01 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 15:47:20 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:50:42 hello! 15:50:46 I've got a problem... 15:51:08 I can't understand how to rewrite this small function in order to be tail-recursion 15:51:29 http://pastebin.com/9yvfnrw5 15:51:31 can anyone help me? 15:52:43 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:53:25 -!- jb55 [~jb55@24.52.246.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:54:28 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #scheme 15:54:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 15:54:35 jb55 [~jb55@24.52.246.111] has joined #scheme 15:55:09 snizzo : the simplest way would be to introduce an accumulator 15:55:48 you mean... also adding a parameter to the function? 15:56:11 i mean making a "helper" function, which has an additional parameter, yes 15:56:27 you can hide by using an inner definition and/or only exposing the helper via the module system 15:56:55 tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:57:33 but I really can't understand the logic behind this tail-recursion transform :( 15:57:40 are there any examples or something? 15:57:59 consider a call `(f 3)' 15:58:32 this will simplify as follows (eliding some steps) 15:58:34 (f 3) 15:58:35 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:52 (/ 1 (+ 1 (f 2))) 15:59:05 (/ 1 (+ 1 (/ 1 (+ 1 (f 1))))) 15:59:18 (/ 1 (+ 1 (/ 1 (+ 1 (/ 1 (+ 1 (f 0))))))) 15:59:24 (/ 1 (+ 1 (/ 1 (+ 1 (/ 1 (+ 1 1)))))) 15:59:44 note that the result of the innermost recursive call here is `1' 16:00:16 and then the result of the next-to innermost recursive call is `(/ 1 (+ 1 1))' which is `1/2' 16:00:45 and then the result of the next-to^2 innermost recursive call is `(/ 1 (+ 1 1/2))' which is `2/3' 16:01:15 and then the result of the next-to^3 innermost recursive call (which here was the initial call) is `(/ 1 (+ 1 2/3))' which is `3/5' 16:01:27 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:01:37 so, you have a progression of results : 16:01:46 1 16:01:53 (/ 1 (+ 1 1)) = 1/2 16:01:55 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 16:02:01 (/ 1 (+ 1 1/2)) = 2/3 16:02:09 (/ 1 (+ 1 2/3)) = 3/5 16:02:37 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 16:02:44 mm ok 16:02:51 now, the idea with the accumulator is that instead of computing all these intermediate results on the *returns* from the recursive calls, you compute each *before* the recursive call 16:03:14 so, you have an extra argument which is the accumulator, which is the "current result" or "result so far" 16:03:46 initially this gelper procedure will be called with the accumulator being `1' (since that's what we wanted "innermost" above, it's the base case in your current code) 16:03:53 s/gelper/helper/ 16:04:32 and in each step, you take the current `accumulator' value, and compute the next one as `(/ 1 (+ 1 accumulator))', which you pass to the recursive call of the helper procedure 16:04:38 snizzo : do you understand ? 16:04:48 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111130065942]] 16:06:33 snizzo_ [~quassel@158.110.154.200] has joined #scheme 16:07:00 ski: sorry, network cable unplugged :( 16:07:01 -!- snizzo [~quassel@158.110.154.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:04 so, you have an extra argument which is the accumulator, which is the "current result" or "result so far" 16:07:22 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:08:10 snizzo_: see logs 16:08:22 from /topic 16:09:25 ski: not completely :( 16:10:16 can you write me it? just to see a working example 16:10:29 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:10:35 and also, do I need to 'reverse' the function as you did? 16:10:55 snizzo_ : to hint a little more, the basic idea is to make it so that calling `(f 1)' will simplify as follows (eliding some steps) 16:11:01 (f 3) 16:11:14 (f-helper 3 1) 16:11:23 -!- rostayob [~rostayob@dyn1199-77.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:11:31 (f-helper 2 (/ 1 (+ 1 1))) 16:11:46 (f-helper 2 1/2) 16:11:52 (f-helper 1 (/ 1 (+ 1 1/2))) 16:11:57 (f-helper 1 2/3) 16:12:04 (f-helper 0 (/ 1 (+ 1 2/3))) 16:12:14 (f-helper 0 3/5) 16:12:16 snizzo_: no, but it is usually simpler to 16:12:18 3/5 16:12:56 mm I'll try write it now... but I still can't get it all 16:14:04 snizzo_ : ok, do that. then come back with what you've got and we'll take a look at it 16:14:52 pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.217.69] has joined #scheme 16:18:42 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:53 kuribas [~user@d54C439C1.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 16:19:02 lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has joined #scheme 16:19:14 jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.225] has joined #scheme 16:19:32 ski: I wrote it, and it's working correctly. But I can't understand it completely 16:19:53 ok 16:20:32 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 16:20:39 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 16:20:47 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:53 maybe you'd like to show your code ? 16:21:45 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:21:59 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 16:25:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.47.73] has joined #scheme 16:25:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.47.73] has quit [Changing host] 16:25:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 16:27:32 yep :) 16:27:59 ski: I have to go now. Are you used to join #scheme often? 16:29:09 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 16:30:11 ski: nevermind! I'll be back. Really thank you for your help! :) 16:30:20 -!- snizzo_ [~quassel@158.110.154.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:28 GoKhlayeh [~GoKhlayeh@161.31.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 16:31:20 teurastaja [~teurastaj@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:32:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.234.22] has joined #scheme 16:34:38 i am making a sudoku solver/generator. both are abstracted away from each other. the generator is very performant and yields a completed grid with minimum computations by generating only one randomized row and rotating for each subsequent row to ensure no row or column conflicts 16:35:18 i have a problem though: i need to randomize regions for conflicts but i need a good algorithm for this 16:35:36 heres the code so far: http://pastebin.com/tgTRdi89 16:35:48 -!- jb55 [~jb55@24.52.246.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:35:52 im glad it remains simple 16:37:41 jb55 [~jb55@24.52.246.111] has joined #scheme 16:38:08 i have to divide the row list in three and have one row per third in each permutated row 16:38:25 this ensures no column conflicts 16:38:42 i want my solution to be as randomized as possible 16:38:51 lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has joined #scheme 16:38:59 -!- jb55 [~jb55@24.52.246.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:02 but im stuck on this region thing 16:41:09 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:20 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:42:45 jb55 [~jb55@24.52.246.111] has joined #scheme 16:43:00 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 16:43:07 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:39 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:48:40 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 16:50:44 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:51:57 teurastaja : i'm not sure what you mean by "divide the row list in three and ...", but your `rotate' probably doesn't do what you meant it to 16:53:06 for example (i started the rest of the code like this): 16:54:39 (define (randomize-rows rows) 16:54:39 (receive (a bc) (split-at rows 3) 16:54:39 (receive (b c) (split-at bc 3) 16:54:39 (... 16:55:21 rows are grouped by 3 16:56:08 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 16:56:11 ok 16:56:22 every ordered group needs its members no in the same group to ensure no region conflicts 16:56:34 *not 16:57:56 "ordered group" ? 16:58:35 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 16:59:22 (an example or counter-example might help) 16:59:25 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:01:56 when i rotate, the next row is the next rotation from the last one 17:02:00 they are ordered 17:02:42 in other words: every next row is one rotation from the last one 17:03:16 (define (rotate lst) (append (cdr lst) (car lst))) 17:04:03 i couldve plugged rotate in make-rows without defining it, but it loses some clarity 17:04:39 i only use srfis by the way 17:04:50 would you want `(rotate (list 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9))' to evaluate to the same as `(list 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1)' ? 17:04:54 and my own definitions 17:05:08 yes 17:05:15 then your `rotate' has a bug 17:05:22 really? 17:05:39 rudybot: (define (rotate lst) (append (cdr lst) (car lst))) 17:05:40 ski: your sandbox is ready 17:05:40 ski: Done. 17:05:49 rudybot: (rotate (list 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)) 17:05:50 ski: ; Value: (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 . 1) 17:06:02 oh... 17:06:19 hmm... 17:06:35 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:37 would xcons do the trick? 17:10:45 no 17:11:07 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:20 the problem is that normally you'd only pass lists to `append', but `rotate' above passes one list and one list element (here a number) to it 17:11:52 so the simplest way is to convert that element to a list 17:12:18 (if you want, you could make a procedure `snoc' for this) 17:16:08 rudybot: (define (rotate lst) (append (cdr lst) (cons (car lst) '()))) 17:16:09 teurastaja: your sandbox is ready 17:16:09 teurastaja: Done. 17:16:31 rudybot: (rotate (list 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)) 17:16:31 teurastaja: ; Value: (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1) 17:16:40 there 17:16:43 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 17:17:01 now back to my initial problem 17:17:28 note that you could have used `(list (car lst))' as well :) 17:19:15 alright. what about concatenate? i want to see how it works 17:19:58 rudybot: (define (rotate lst) (concatenate (cdr lst) (car lst))) 17:19:58 teurastaja: Done. 17:20:02 -!- noam_ [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:05 rudybot: (rotate (list 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)) 17:20:05 teurastaja: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: concatenate in module: 'program 17:20:12 uh... 17:20:17 noam_ [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 17:21:49 rudybot: (require srfi/1) 17:21:50 ski: Done. 17:22:10 rudybot: (define (rotate lst) (concatenate (cdr lst) (car lst))) 17:22:10 ski: Done. 17:22:18 rudybot: (rotate (list 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)) 17:22:19 ski: error: apply: expects type as 3rd argument, given: 1; other arguments were: # '(2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 17:22:54 rudybot: (define (rotate lst) (concatenate (list (cdr lst) (car lst)))) 17:22:55 ski: Done. 17:22:56 rudybot: (rotate (list 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)) 17:22:57 ski: ; Value: (2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 . 1) 17:23:37 rudybot: (concatenate (list (list 0 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) (list 7 8) (list 9) (list))) 17:23:38 ski: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 17:24:57 ok, ill use: (define (rotate lst) (append (cdr lst) (list (car lst)))) 17:26:44 heres an updated source with more comments 17:26:46 http://pastebin.com/NkrbZ7hk 17:27:06 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:31 hm, note that your `make-list' will generate a list of nine numbers, all equal 17:33:04 -!- noam_ [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:19 noam_ [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 17:33:56 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:36:46 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:26 (error "Internal error -- we frobnitzed the garfnut!") I wonder what I meant by that. 17:38:45 rostayob [~rostayob@5addaf49.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 17:41:21 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-peoopfwnamchlccq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:07 heh 17:42:47 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:49 platinuum [~platinuum@S0106602ad06b80ad.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 17:45:51 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:46:15 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 17:51:23 untrusted [~user@stgt-5f718417.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 17:51:58 framling [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:52:47 ski: no because i is bound to (rand 9) and each successive call yields another unique number in that range 18:06:15 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 18:08:56 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:09:42 *ski* sighs 18:11:07 rudybot: (require srfi/27) 18:11:08 ski: Done. 18:11:29 rudybot: (define rand (random-source-make-integers default-random-source)) 18:11:29 ski: error: current-directory: `exists' access denied for /usr/local/src/rudybot/ 18:12:06 bah 18:12:34 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 18:13:26 teurastaja : in any case, each call to `make-row' only calls `rand' *once*, then *reusing* the result `i' in `make-list' 18:13:48 assume that the random number generated was `3', then you'll get 18:14:08 rudybot: (map (lambda (x) (if (zero? x) 9 x)) (make-list 9 3)) 18:14:09 ski: ; Value: (3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3) 18:15:27 teurastaja : i think you would have more use for `list-tabulate', than `make-list' 18:15:31 freakazoid [~seanl@66.220.144.73] has joined #scheme 18:21:31 rudybot: (list-tabulate 4 (lambda (i) (* i i))) 18:21:31 ski: ; Value: (0 1 4 9) 18:21:48 instead of `(* i i)' you could all your `rand' (and ignore `i') 18:24:43 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:27:09 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-14.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:28:19 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 18:28:35 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.231] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:29:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.234.22] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:30:44 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-14.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:33:16 like: (map (lambda (x) (if (zero? x) 9 x)) (list-tabulate 9 (rand 9))) ? 18:33:33 i dont think it would work 18:34:55 ... (lambda (_) (rand 9)) ... 18:35:07 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:08 maybe: (map (lambda (x) (if (zero? x) 9 x)) (list-tabulate 9 (lambda (i) (rand 9)))) 18:35:33 yes like this 18:36:13 yeah 18:36:38 or why not put the `if' inside the inner `lambda', so you can elide the outer one, together with the `map' ? 18:36:52 -!- dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:37:02 (you'll want to use a `let' in that case) 18:38:20 (define (make-row) 18:38:20 (map (lambda (x) (if (zero? x) 9 x)) 18:38:20 (list-tabulate 9 (lambda (i) (rand 9))))) 18:38:41 true! 18:41:07 -!- ijp [~user@host86-168-33-149.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:01 something like 18:42:38 (list-tabulate 9 18:42:50 (lambda (_) 18:42:58 i1126 [~i1126@xdsl-87-79-142-165.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:42:59 (let ((x (rand 9))) 18:43:02 ..x..))) 18:43:10 ijp [~user@host86-168-33-149.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 18:44:15 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:47 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:18 -!- i1126 [~i1126@xdsl-87-79-142-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:47:30 (define (make-row) 18:47:30 (list-tabulate 9 18:47:30 (lambda (dummy) 18:47:30 (let ([i (rand 9)]) 18:47:30 (if (zero? i) 9 i))))) 18:47:42 is this fine? 18:47:47 i1126 [~i1126@xdsl-87-79-142-165.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:48:06 -!- i1126 [~i1126@xdsl-87-79-142-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:48:07 never used list-tabulate before 18:49:53 seems useful as i only recur once 18:50:14 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 18:50:26 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.231] has joined #scheme 18:50:45 I would suggest (+ (rand 9) 1) instead of the (if ...), but it's your program :) 18:50:52 i1126 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