00:01:23 -!- zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has quit [Quit: gotta go, my dad is going to arrive and stuff] 00:02:49 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:05:32 woo 00:09:49 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:19:41 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:24:53 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:27:25 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 00:27:42 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:28:02 klutometis: ha 00:28:24 i've had systems that were accessible only to insurance agents and my former state government fail with - 00:28:41 which was a problem b/c the database had the -, but the input system couldn't handle it 00:28:48 so no lookup was possible for me 00:29:04 so, no, such systems will be with us for a long time yet 00:32:42 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Connection reset by peer] 07:58:47 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip68-8-234-179.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:48 keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB695A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:01:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:02:33 chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 08:10:56 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 08:11:25 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:13:26 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #scheme 08:20:13 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB695A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:26:57 snizzo [~Claudio@83.224.73.33] has joined #scheme 08:30:10 hkuieagle [~hk@unaffiliated/hkuieagle] has joined #scheme 08:43:52 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 08:57:55 dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:59:29 hi there, I'm back again ;p. If someone has a copy of pls /msg me! 09:00:20 d0uw [~d0uw@14.104.40.72] has joined #scheme 09:00:20 -!- yamanu [~yamanu@cpe-212-18-40-64.static.amis.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:09:23 i discovered that this code: 09:09:24 (define (cons x y) 09:09:24 (lambda (m) (m x y))) 09:09:24 09:09:26 (define (car z) 09:09:29 (z (lambda (p q) p))) 09:09:32 09:09:35 (define (cdr z) 09:09:38 (z (lambda (p q) q))) 09:09:41 09:09:48 is some kinda of revelation to me ;) 09:10:02 :) 09:12:56 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-21-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has left #scheme 09:13:31 yamanu [~yamanu@cpe-212-18-40-64.static.amis.net] has joined #scheme 09:13:42 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@83.224.73.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:15:59 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 09:17:06 dca: Lambda calculus can be used to implement scheme. 09:17:31 and algol. 09:18:06 making it a vacuous statement ;) 09:27:04 -!- d0uw [~d0uw@14.104.40.72] has quit [] 09:29:00 GoKhlayeh [~GoKhlayeh@79.80.31.161] has joined #scheme 09:33:22 pjb: right i heard it, but i've seen this for real only yesterday ;) 09:41:04 snizzo [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 09:43:12 lambda calculus can also be used to implement itself with a different syntax, if you have too much spare time (http://haltp.org/aoh/mindo/app/swim.s) 09:57:43 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 10:01:13 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-92-24-169-147.ppp.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:03:51 -!- bfig [~bfig@r186-48-199-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:04:35 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:47 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:52 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24:43 jrapdx [~jra@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:31:00 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 10:49:31 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-99-132.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 10:51:37 aoh: what's the implementation language? looks like parenthesis-less lisp 10:53:16 I think it's its own language: http://haltp.org/aoh/mindo/readme.txt 11:08:09 clear 11:08:35 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:33 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-99-132.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:38:43 -!- ijp [~user@host86-169-26-126.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:39:10 ijp [~user@host86-169-26-126.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 11:40:33 masm [~masm@2.80.175.133] has joined #scheme 11:59:52 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:08:01 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-158-232.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 12:16:13 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:13 yagnb [~yaaic@211.140.5.108] has joined #scheme 12:20:36 -!- yagnb [~yaaic@211.140.5.108] has quit [Client Quit] 12:25:08 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 12:27:01 replore [~replore@ntkngw226116.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:27:49 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 12:28:08 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw226116.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:01 -!- ijp [~user@host86-169-26-126.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:07 ijp [~user@host86-169-26-126.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 12:44:34 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.72.252] has joined #scheme 12:44:41 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.72.252] has quit [Changing host] 12:44:42 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 12:58:16 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:10:48 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 13:18:19 snizzo [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 13:46:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:28 -!- ijp [~user@host86-169-26-126.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:49:52 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:58 tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has joined #scheme 13:59:18 -!- chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:12:02 -!- hkuieagle [~hk@unaffiliated/hkuieagle] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:16 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 14:16:06 epsil [~vegard@uioguest-193-157-116-199.uio.no] has joined #scheme 14:16:15 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:50:51 keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB7FA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:51:05 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 14:51:56 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:52:14 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:39 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 15:06:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:07:59 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:08:12 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:08:22 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.228] has joined #scheme 15:09:31 sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has joined #scheme 15:10:01 hey guys, is there an srfi-1 function that helps me loop through 2 elements of a list at a time instead of just one? 15:10:28 i basically want to turn a flat list of pairs into a hash-table (via an intermediate alist which im trying to create, so i can use alist->hash-table) 15:10:56 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:11:23 for-each? 15:11:36 kind of, except i want to take 2 elements at a time, the key and the value. 15:11:43 its a flat list, like (a 1 b 2) 15:11:48 ah i see 15:11:51 in chicken there is chop: (chop '(1 2 3 4 5 6) 2) ==> ((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)) 15:11:56 i was thinking of recursively using split-at 15:12:01 ah, chop, thats what i want then 15:12:11 in unit data-structures 15:12:22 thanks! 15:12:26 my pleasure 15:13:51 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.175.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:14:05 douw [douw@14.104.40.72] has joined #scheme 15:14:16 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:27 (let loop ((k (car l)) (v (cadr l))) (do-something k v) (if (not (null? (cddr l))) (loop (cddr l)))) 15:15:08 Well, rather: (let loop ((l l)) (let ((k (car l)) (v (cadr l))) (do-something k v)) (if (not (null? (cddr l))) (loop (cddr l)))) 15:15:25 :) 15:15:28 -!- douw [douw@14.104.40.72] has quit [Client Quit] 15:15:37 is it insane to write my own lisp variant in chicken? 15:16:17 Just wrap any solution in your own higher order function (map-key-values (lambda (k v) ...) list) 15:16:21 no, other's have done worse ;) 15:16:57 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:19:01 kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 15:19:01 -!- kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Changing host] 15:19:01 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 15:21:54 better to write a lisp variant in chicken than to write it in c :) 15:22:15 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-158-232.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:25:52 and better to write a lisp variant than a c variant. 15:30:17 -!- sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:55 before writing a lisp variant, it probably pays to consider whether you can do what you want with macros :P 15:33:52 elly: I guess he finished his editor early and got bored :p 15:35:34 hehehe 15:40:54 masm [~masm@bl15-235-73.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 15:46:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:47:40 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:50:01 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 15:51:58 pedromelendez [~pedromele@CPE38c85ca68ad6-CM38c85ca68ad4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:57:28 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:24 ian` [~user@host86-169-26-126.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:04:55 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111116091359]] 16:10:00 pedromel1ndez [~pedro@CPE38c85ca68ad6-CM38c85ca68ad4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:11:42 *pedromel1ndez* 16:11:50 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:53 -!- copumpkin is now known as immoral 16:11:58 -!- immoral is now known as copumpkin 16:13:58 bfig [~bfig@r186-48-199-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 16:15:11 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:15:23 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:25:52 -!- dnm__ is now known as dnm 16:26:55 -!- pedromel1ndez [~pedro@CPE38c85ca68ad6-CM38c85ca68ad4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:27:12 -!- pedromelendez [~pedromele@CPE38c85ca68ad6-CM38c85ca68ad4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #scheme 16:28:13 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 16:33:12 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:32 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:37:03 -!- epsil [~vegard@uioguest-193-157-116-199.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:37:36 sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has joined #scheme 16:38:13 i really like clojure. i just wish it didnt rely on java at all. a clojure-clone with c-interop would be much better imho 16:38:28 so im writing one in chicken :) 16:38:58 sounds like fun :) 16:41:51 the threading & concurrent programming & default immutableness of Racket are very clojure-ish 16:42:35 I would be surprised if there weren't already a language for it that is even more immutable 16:43:01 clojure has STM, doesn't it? 16:43:07 yeah 16:43:48 But Racket has TCO :) 16:44:07 Which can obviously be added by implementing it in Chicken instead of Java 16:44:20 It will be much slower implemented in Chicken though 16:44:30 and won't have real multihreading 16:44:39 since Chicken has big locks 16:44:40 epsil [~vegard@uioguest-193-157-116-199.uio.no] has joined #scheme 16:45:07 I am Not Sure about STM. One the one hand, I feel that shared state is a bit too low-level and we ought to be thinking in terms of message passing (which scales better to really large systems; even with NUMA you can only share state between *so* many threads). On the other hand, there's definitely a place for things like shared caches, and STM is great for that. While the message queues of message-passing systems, being quite low-level, are probably b 16:45:09 I think it would be better to add STM to Racket 16:45:31 I agree that message passing is easier 16:45:42 it's also faster 16:45:50 and easier to reason about 16:46:07 STM can arbitrarily delay threads 16:46:18 freakazoid: Not so much that chicken has big locks, as that it only uses a single OS-level thread due to the nature of the GC ;-) You can use multiple threads within a process, each with its own independent Chicken environment, I think, but then they can't share the GC-ed heap. 16:46:26 alaricsp: "are probably ..." 16:46:34 wingo: Did I get TRUNCATED? 16:46:46 ...are probably best implemented directly in terms of the hardware's concurrent access capabliities rather than via an abstraction like STM. 16:46:59 My client splits messages automagically 16:47:06 alaricsp: ah, right 16:47:27 Yeah, STM can arbitrarily delay things. But then, so can writing to a full queue, I suppose! But that's more reasonable-about. 16:47:55 alaricsp: Racket gives you limited concurrency within the same interpreter or full concurrency in independent interpreters, but it gives you places for communication. I have not yet had reason to use that, however. 16:48:16 So, yeah, I'm still not sure if STM is worth the effort. I see shared caches as its killer app. 16:48:36 yeah, I've fantasized about implementing memcached in clojure 16:48:45 You can do message passing between chickens running in threads in the same process, but you'll need to copy between heaps, which removes half the point 16:48:55 it would be slower in the single-threaded case, though, since STM is about half the speed of regular memory on average 16:49:02 I once (for a contract) wrote an inter-process communicatoin library in C that used shared memory 16:49:20 The shared memory segment contained high-concurrency hashes and queues 16:49:25 I mainly did it with lock-free algorithms 16:49:37 (the hashes for caches and as a namespace for the queues, and the queues for message passing) 16:49:54 I think I needed a single semaphore for handling some non-common-case in the memory allocator 16:50:09 As you needed a managed heap in there for the arbitrary-sized things being put in hashes and queues 16:50:18 alaricsp: So you wrote 0mq? 16:50:36 freakazoid: Nope; it was all done with shared memory, not sockets. 0mq doesn't do hashes, either ;-) 16:50:41 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 16:50:53 The mainly-lock-free memory allocator was fun 16:50:56 I am pretty sure 0mq can use shared memory for IPC 16:51:04 it also supports in-process messaging 16:51:31 IIRC I had a few lock-free stacks for common-sized objects, with per-process buffers in front of that to avoid cache line contention around the tops of the stacks, or something 16:51:51 freakazoid: Well, it doesn't do hashes, so it wouldn't have met my specification :-) 16:51:53 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.228] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:52:17 IMO mere mortals shouldn't be allowed to use shared memory - that's for libraries like the one you wrote 16:52:34 Definitely 16:52:38 In my experience people can't write correct multithreaded programs to save their lives 16:52:46 they can barely write programs that communicate over the network. 16:52:53 I'm a mere mortal too, but at least I'm a mere mortal who read that book by Maurice Herlihy! 16:53:07 And you can focus on the correctness of the IPC layer 16:53:36 My experience may have been tainted a bit by the awfulness of Second Life's implementation. 16:53:41 ...and Nir Shavit. 16:54:14 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Multiprocessor-Programming-Maurice-Herlihy/dp/0123705916/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321980808&sr=8-1 16:54:17 http://tinyurl.com/77mwxuu 16:54:22 Thanks, rudybot! 16:54:23 I just use 0mq or Erlang when I need concurrency :) 16:54:31 Yes, a good approach 16:54:42 or if I'm using Python I use queues or Twisted with threads.deferToThread 16:55:02 I suppose if I needed concurrency now I'd look into Racket's concurrency stuff 16:55:19 since when I was using Erlang I was only aware of Racket's existence and hadn't started actually using it 16:55:46 actually with python if you really need concurrency you have to use the subprocess module 16:56:43 Facebook just hired a Haskell giant, so maybe I'll finally have reason to finish learning it - native STM with GHC 16:56:52 Yeah, IIRC the threading in Python isn't so great 16:57:05 I think that's true of anything with a GIL 16:57:13 I'd like to work on how to improve it in Chicken, but it'd complicate the GC no end 16:57:34 If there's an efficient way of sharing the heap, that'd be fine 16:57:40 releasing the GIL for a short time and then grabbing it again doesn't work 16:58:05 I think there's a way to yield the CPU but I think it's nonportable and I guess Python doesn't do it? 16:58:12 Clearly, the nursery couldn't be shared between threads, but the real heap could be 16:58:20 There is a yield function in pthreads, I believe 16:58:25 well there are certainly concurrent collectors 16:58:34 the major Java implementations all have them don't they? 16:58:43 Yes. We'd need one of those! And we'd need it to interface correctly with the intricacies of Chicken's core :-) 16:58:47 X-Scale` [email@89.180.156.167] has joined #scheme 16:59:25 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:33 hmm 16:59:52 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-235-73.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:42 fortunately in chicken the stack and nursery are the same thing 17:00:46 so it may well make your job easier 17:01:46 it sounds like sdegutis's favorite Clojure feature is the ability to embed its implementation language, though 17:02:07 -!- Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:02:09 since I'm guessing that's why he chose Chicken 17:02:59 freakazoid: Yeah, but there's issues about knowing about pointers from the heap into the nursery/stack and vice versa that would be complicated by a shared heap, I'm sure 17:03:32 hmm 17:03:45 Chicken allows pointers into the stack? 17:04:10 I thought it did escape analysis to allocate on the heap objects that can end up being pointed to by the heap 17:04:28 *qu1j0t3* does an escape analysis to get outta here 17:04:32 heh 17:04:50 Sure. Make a pair. Let it survive GCs so it makes its way out of the nursery. Then allocate a new cons (which is on the stack) and set! it into your heap pair. 17:05:19 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbece59.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:05:27 sjamaan/DerGuteMoritz/C-Keen, am I right? 17:05:28 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d06768d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 17:05:58 since it's a compiler that set! is visible though 17:06:12 so it can know to allocate the cons directly on the heap 17:06:12 Not always 17:06:27 For a start, you can compile eval and then eval some arbitrary code :-) 17:06:50 hmm 17:06:52 And you can load a separately-compiled binary and call a procedure from it 17:07:02 ...which might have hidden side effects on its arguments 17:07:07 which would make an eval using your whole scope cause everything in your scope to have to be allocated on the heap 17:07:16 And that'd be no fun 17:07:21 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-66-56.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:23 if that's the case it would be mentioned in the performance docs 17:07:29 I don't think that's the case 17:07:42 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-66-56.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 17:07:58 From overhearing a mailing list discussion a while back, I think there's a "heap_mutate" C function that keeps a queue of references in the heap which have been mutated to point into the nursery, eg a write barrier 17:08:10 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:18 And that queue is examined on a GC to re-point those pointers to the new locations of the objects they point at 17:08:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:09:21 ah, ok 17:09:24 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:09:39 yeah if there's already a write barrier I guess it's not necessary to prevent references into the stack 17:09:55 Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has joined #scheme 17:09:59 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-112.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 17:10:47 I thought I read about certain situations causing direct allocation on the heap, but I can't find that now 17:13:00 Well, if you allocate big blobs and vectors and stuff, I think that goes straight to heap 17:13:14 right 17:13:19 otherwise it'd blow your stack 17:14:00 .. literally, though a different kind of literally than the original meaning of the term 17:15:01 Uhuh 17:16:10 :) 17:20:45 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@cmc.beaming.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:22:51 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:23:41 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 17:26:07 -!- noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:08 noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 17:30:58 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 17:38:06 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 17:41:28 is it possible to use mit/gnu scheme for shell scripts? 17:42:23 http://www.meta-language.net/sample.html 17:43:50 fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.21.179] has joined #scheme 17:43:56 -!- confab [~win7@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:57 epsil: looked at scsh? http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=scsh&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scsh.net%2F&ei=WN_LTu6EKYLu0gH1q7ky&usg=AFQjCNGECXJwcbPG3FLq33olLWJEn4PeZA 17:43:57 http://tinyurl.com/7je5vlv 17:44:15 ugh curse you google) epsil http://www.scsh.net/ 17:45:31 well I want to execute scheme scripts from bash: ./hello.scm 17:45:44 where hello.scm contains #!/usr/bin/scheme or something 17:45:55 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:46:19 epsil: you can use this trick: http://wiki.call-cc.org/writing%20portable%20scripts 17:47:57 -!- sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51:19 d0uw [~d0uw@14.104.40.72] has joined #scheme 17:52:42 -!- d0uw [~d0uw@14.104.40.72] has quit [Client Quit] 17:54:04 sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has joined #scheme 17:58:33 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-158-232.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 18:01:21 confab [~win7@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:21 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:36 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 18:05:16 Aaaahhhh! The trailing whitespace!!! 18:05:24 M-x whitespace-cleanup to the rescue 18:05:43 DrRacket apparently doesn't clean that up for you 18:06:22 freakazoid: thanks, didn't know about whitespace-cleanup 18:06:51 yeah, I use whitespace-mode and whitespace-cleanup extensively 18:07:10 and i have it set up to show me trailing whitespace, trailing blank lines, and tabs 18:08:23 I have been known to put commits with only whitespace cleanup into the review system and make the person who left all the whitespace turds do the code review :) 18:08:38 TIL M-x emacs-init-time 18:09:37 2.3 seconds here 18:13:03 djcb [~user@a88-112-255-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:15:41 -!- X-Scale` [email@89.180.156.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:59 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 18:23:15 srin [~srin@257WIRELESS.CNS.NYU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:23:36 masm [~masm@bl15-235-73.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 18:29:28 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:29:42 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:30:16 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:30:16 freakazoid: lol 18:30:41 is it possible that Apple is so stupid they didn't provide any way to set an environment variable in launchd to a value with a space in it? 18:30:46 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:53 I've tried single quote, double quote, and backslash escaping the space 18:31:18 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:54 Wow, according to Google Apple is indeed that stupid. 18:31:58 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:34:16 Is launchd a shell script? 18:37:44 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:38:04 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 18:38:30 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:39:46 no, it's a giant pile of poo. 18:41:43 Considering shell scripts' quality standards, a giant pile of poo sounds very good. :-) 18:42:09 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:44:53 -!- srin [~srin@257WIRELESS.CNS.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:45:51 freakazoid: set it to %20, and interpret it... 18:45:54 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:45:57 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:46:06 pjb: This is PATH 18:46:34 I love how Apple's redirected a bunch of URLs to the app store but the apps that lived at the URLs they redirected to frequently aren't IN the app store. 18:47:13 Apple just doesn't give a shit about developers, near as I can tell 18:47:32 at least, not if you're not using their tools and approved languages 18:50:52 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:56:24 joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 18:56:30 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:56:30 joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has joined #scheme 19:00:25 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:04:14 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:05:44 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #scheme 19:07:27 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:09:03 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:14:49 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:18:13 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:23:21 -!- copumpkin is now known as coblumpkin 19:25:14 srin [~srin@257WIRELESS.CNS.NYU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:26:16 choas [~lars@p4FDC5BA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:31:34 God, the `yes' command so eagerly usurps my terminal that I can only ^C with difficulty; have to result to screen-kill-current-window. How fitting. 19:32:00 klutometis: computers get faster... 19:32:30 pjb: But `yes' outvies them with corroborating vigour. 19:34:26 Whenever you quickly need a CPU intensive program, use "yes > /dev/null" :-) 19:37:51 -!- epsil [~vegard@uioguest-193-157-116-199.uio.no] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:38:00 -!- coblumpkin is now known as copumpkin 19:38:08 pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.222.215] has joined #scheme 19:38:46 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d06768d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:38:55 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f768843.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:45:51 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:50:17 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-30.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 19:53:01 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:53:14 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:00:08 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f768843.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:35 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f768843.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:03:13 -!- srin [~srin@257WIRELESS.CNS.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:05 snizzo [~Claudio@95.232.237.169] has joined #scheme 20:10:47 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:17:51 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-235-73.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:18:20 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.21.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:07 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:22:19 -!- inimino [~inimino@boshi.inimino.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:23:20 srin [~srin@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:23:22 -!- ttvd [~radixip@ttvd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:26 inimino [~inimino@boshi.inimino.org] has joined #scheme 20:28:34 ttvd [~radixip@ttvd.net] has joined #scheme 20:35:38 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:39:18 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:37 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:43:59 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:02 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:39 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:55:59 -!- srin [~srin@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:57:18 kudkudyak [~sun@94.72.132.79] has joined #scheme 20:58:07 srin [~srin@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:02:02 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:02:44 sphex_ [~nobody@74.127.215.20] has joined #scheme 21:05:14 -!- sphex [~nobody@74.127.215.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:05:56 i guess when im thinking of clojure, unlike everyone else im not thinking of multithreading.. i jsut dont care about that feature 21:06:16 im thinking of the syntax and the core lib and everything about the language except threading 21:06:28 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:07:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has joined #scheme 21:08:51 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:19:52 sdegutis: Vectorizing lambda signatures; threading macros; let with sequential binding? What exactly are you referring to? 21:20:28 zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has joined #scheme 21:20:43 Their ad-hoc and inextensible destruring language? 21:20:52 destructuring* 21:24:10 Concurrency was Clojure's fucking raison d'etre, if I'm not mistaken; having a pseudo-Lisp on the JVM was just a side-effect. 21:26:05 -!- kudkudyak [~sun@94.72.132.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:26:12 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.222.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:14 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:06 because there is no on irc 21:36:24 ? 21:36:32 italics. 21:37:25 Yes there /are/, but I think I must have missed the original context ;-) 21:40:12 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:42:03 loading files with load just sucks. how to implement some basic "modules"? in something which is atleast a little bit portable. 21:42:41 .b 2 21:43:06 jrapdx [~jra@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:53 fantazo: Sorry if I missed the conversation, but are you writing your own Lisp; or why wouldn't you use the module facilities of (insert-favorite-Scheme)? 21:50:16 *klutometis* was indulging in carcinogenic tea today: Lapsang Souchong; must stop. 21:50:32 klutometis, I generally don't use functionality of a specific implementation or system. Maybe that has something to do what I think as a C programmer is good style of coding. 21:50:46 fantazo: until you are using R6RS or R7RS there is no module system that is portabl 21:50:49 e 21:52:36 fantazo: syntax-case modules are relatively ubiquitous; but that cure may be worse than the disease, so to speak. 21:53:20 fantazo: I say: become an insect, in the Heinleinian sense, and specialize in your One Scheme. 21:54:16 -!- jrapdx [~jra@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:05 *ian`* longs for the day when we stop giving people that advice 21:55:34 ian`: Me, too; devoutly to be desired. 21:55:45 Yeah... I hope R7RS helps us towards that 21:55:51 Much more useful stuff is being standardised 21:56:12 *alaricsp* plans to volunteer for WG2 when it properly fires up :-D 21:56:36 -!- ian` is now known as ijp 21:56:58 -!- sepisultrum is now known as sepi 21:57:27 -!- srin [~srin@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:51 alaricsp: I thought it had been going along in parallel, for some reason; or does it only kick in when people start to talk about R7RS-big? 22:01:57 I don't think that there's enough `standardisation momentum' to keep both working groups going in parallel. 22:07:45 klutometis: It was, but too many things arose that were hard to progress without WG1 being done, so it's gone on standby until WG1 finishes 22:08:13 fds: Not that, it's just pragmatism. Hard to finalise the WG2 spec until the exact limits of WG1 are finalised. 22:08:39 Bedtime! Night night! 22:08:50 *alaricsp* is hungry for SPICY MONSTER MUNCH. Dammit. 22:09:36 alaricsp: Hm, good point. 22:09:56 *fds* hasn't eaten Monster Munch for years. 22:10:11 I wonder if I can buy them at my local supermarket. 22:10:13 www.megamonstermunch.com 22:13:17 so some kind of chips? 22:14:12 A baked corn snack, yes. 22:15:17 In Albion, we call them "crisps"; "chips" are "fries" 22:17:21 alina [~alina@140-182-182-110.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 22:18:07 -!- alina [~alina@140-182-182-110.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:34 Why would (eq? "a" "a") be considered unspecified by the scheme spec state: " `Eq?' and `eqv?' are guaranteed to have the same behavior on symbols, booleans, the empty list, pairs, procedures, and non-empty strings and vectors. " 22:22:41 rff: strings are allocated in the heap, so eq? might distinguish them 22:22:51 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:22:53 but they might be interned, so eq? might identify them 22:26:01 samth, how do you create an interned string in scheme? 22:26:26 rff: your language runtime might intern them 22:28:27 I see 22:30:09 how is that in CL? is it there specified? for what reason isn't that specified? 22:34:12 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq.htm 22:34:41 (eq "Foo" "Foo") is allowed to be either true or false 22:35:04 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:55 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:39:30 fridim_ [~fridim@dafuckingbox.fridim.org] has joined #scheme 22:44:31 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-30.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:45:39 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has joined #scheme 22:53:51 masm [~masm@bl15-235-73.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:57:11 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-164-109.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 23:00:35 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB7FA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:01:56 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f768843.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:02:06 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f76978c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 23:02:26 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:06:24 -!- sdegutis [~sdegutis@chi-pat.cashnetusa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:08:31 surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 23:09:57 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 23:14:59 pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.222.215] has joined #scheme 23:15:10 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:28:33 srin [~srin@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #scheme 23:28:50 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.231] has joined #scheme 23:29:13 -!- srin [~srin@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 23:30:54 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:33:11 blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 23:39:28 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@dafuckingbox.fridim.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:27 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:42 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:39 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:53:01 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:58:43 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep]