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quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-87.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:49 PfhorSlayer [~PfhatWork@sceapdsd43-15.989studios.com] has joined #scheme 06:02:12 shoerant [~mortimer@wc249-118.resnet.stonybrook.edu] has joined #scheme 06:02:12 -!- shoerain [~mortimer@wc249-118.resnet.stonybrook.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:04:00 tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has joined #scheme 06:12:16 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 06:33:22 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #scheme 06:54:53 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:57:50 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 07:08:11 Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-121-212-79.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #scheme 07:08:16 how do i set a default case with cond?? 07:10:59 (cond ... (else 5)) 07:14:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-116.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:17:19 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:32:50 thx bro 08:03:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1] 08:04:46 (cond ... (1 5)) works too and is 3 characters shorters ;-) 08:05:06 but awful to read 08:06:25 (#t 5) would be more clear (and CL like) but since the advent of call-with-current-continuation shortening an else with #t does not improve typing speed as much as it hinders reading the code 08:10:41 -!- shoerant is now known as shoerain 08:15:50 are you saying programming is a race to use as few characters as possible? 08:16:04 why am i naming my variable n_until_complete? 08:19:58 snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 08:20:22 -!- imphasing [~Alex@97-81-115-30.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:23:08 Operaist2: No, I'm just toying with a newbie this morning :-) 08:23:53 And you should name it n-until-complete, this is not C. 08:32:11 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 08:32:50 -!- dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has left #scheme 08:36:13 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:37:58 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 08:38:54 -!- Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-121-212-79.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:42:31 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:10 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:51:31 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:52:09 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 08:58:07 Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-22-51.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #scheme 09:05:38 -!- Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-22-51.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:18:38 drdo` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 09:19:42 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:21:39 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 09:22:28 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23:46 Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-22-51.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #scheme 09:32:16 dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 09:39:38 rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #scheme 09:45:59 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f7696a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:35 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f768fac.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 09:59:46 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:12:01 BW^- [~Miranda@92.81.211.142] has joined #scheme 10:12:07 any srfi etc. proc for picking the last element of a list? 10:12:12 thinking of implementing a list-ref-r procedure 10:12:37 SRFI-1 has `last' 10:12:43 aha 10:13:23 super, thx 10:14:06 oh my, john mccarthy passed away! ? 10:14:30 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:15:05 Yes, a week or two ago. 10:16:36 :( 10:16:59 i had on my schedule to contact him to meet for a coffee/tea next time i'd be by the valley. 10:17:37 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 10:17:46 well, this was not intended then, simply. 10:18:45 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 10:24:15 rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 10:24:42 ijp [~user@host109-156-154-89.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 10:26:24 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:40:53 -!- Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-22-51.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20111008085056]] 10:42:57 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 10:43:14 Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 10:44:56 -!- rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:05 rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 10:52:31 -!- drdo` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:34 -!- rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:49 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-149-25.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:15:00 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 11:23:40 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.33.2] has joined #scheme 11:25:34 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:57 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 11:57:13 masm [~masm@bl19-167-20.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:17:28 Economist's tribute to McCarthy & Richtie: http://www.economist.com/node/21536536 12:19:17 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:20:33 *Brendan_T* thought for a moment that the two pics were of the same person 12:21:53 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 12:25:02 did anyone implement a Java virtual machine in Scheme, i.e. to load and run Java class files in a Scheme environment? 12:25:08 jit => scheme code i suppose 12:26:12 BW^-: felix (chicken) has implemented a static java bytecode -> scheme compiler. 12:26:42 mario-goulart: cool, do you have any idea of its name? 12:27:02 is there any -> scheme converter for other very popular languages, like shellscript, perl or ruby? 12:28:37 They often say that the beauty of Common Lisp is that it's highly adaptable to different programming "paradigms"... Could this be said of scheme as well? 12:28:51 yes 12:28:53 dostoyevsky: yes. 12:29:11 dostoyevsky: in terms of fundamental programming concepts, you can view scheme as superior to CL 12:29:37 dostoyevsky: scheme's focus is mathematical-logical excellence and completeness in all ways - symmetry and holisticness if you will 12:30:07 BW^-: it was cvjm. Felix's removed it from the svn repo, but it can still be recevered from the repo hitory. 12:30:15 dostoyevsky: cl's main emphasis as a lisp is to provide practical functionality, this is where the standard library and their metaobjectprotocol comes in 12:30:55 mario-goulart: are you aware if it was fully working, stable and so on? why remove it from the web, better split it out to a separate package and keep it online to keep it available and so on 12:31:04 BW^-: neither 12:31:14 BW^-: http://bugs.call-cc.org/browser/release/4/cvjm/trunk?rev=23838 12:31:30 BW^-: it does not work (yet) with the standard lib and it has not been tested much besides experimentation 12:31:50 BW^-: more info: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/chicken-users/2011-02/msg00127.html 12:36:02 c-keen,mario-goulart: very nice, it's a very good project 12:36:34 BW^-: If you want to improve it, felix will happily accept patches. 12:36:44 c-keen,mario-goulart: as scheme is a higher quality language fundamentally while java has widespread use, it's always very practical for certain things to have the ability to run java things in it 12:37:01 Indeed. 12:37:09 BW^-: this has not been needed much though 12:37:19 BW^-: there's also Kawa Scheme and SISC 12:37:23 c-keen: do you know anything about how much of the standard library it supports? 12:37:29 BW^-: which are also able to interop with Java 12:37:55 BW^-: no, I gave it a try once to provide some feedback but since I don't need it for my work, I neglected it 12:37:56 dergutemoritz: yes, though those are scheme on java (not java on scheme as the abovementioned project). i'm with you that there's ample of applications for that also though. 12:38:25 BW^-: right 12:40:35 So how do CL's reader macros compare to scheme's syntax-based macros? I always felt that CL had a little more flexibility in that area 12:40:56 Reader macros are a dangerous flexibility that, IIRC, harms flexibility in other areas 12:41:37 As it complicates the semantics of (read) no end ;-) 12:41:45 dostoyevsky: several scheme implementations have define-macro also, just fyi. 12:42:06 define-macro is different to reader macros 12:42:30 some scheme implementations also allow the definition of reader macros 12:42:47 And there's identifier macros, too; another feature with an arguable danger/merit tradeoff 12:43:09 mario-goulart,c-keen: do you have any idea about what the talk about making an import for the "GNU classpath library" is about? i mean, what's the need of having it in this project, to make it run java code? 12:44:04 GNU classpath is an implementation of the Java libraries. Core language + libraries = full language :-) A JVM only implements the core language, you need the libraries as well to run nontrivial Java code. 12:44:05 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 12:44:22 BW^-: I don't know much about it, but I suppose it means importing the GNU classpath would be handy for doing anything useful. 12:44:51 mario-goulart: huh ok. well i suppose the next step would be to look up what that is about. 12:45:01 Racket's #reader seems a reasonable compromise 12:45:07 well, thank you a lot for pointing it out, it's very nice to know this is there. 12:45:09 BW^-: are you still talking about cvjm? 12:45:19 yep 12:45:50 BW^-: cvjm will *compile* java byte code to scheme, meaning if you want to use the whole gnu classpath lib you need to compile it beforehand 12:45:57 BW^-: you're welcome. Feel free to resurrect that project. AFAIK, felix gave up on it only because nobody seemed interested in it. 12:46:23 BW^-: and compiling the classpath lib currently fails with cvjm due to bugs/unimplemented features in cvjm's code 12:49:08 With respect to reader macros: The crucial issue, I think, is that (read) is used for both code and data, and reader macros that make code easier complicate the simple task of writing data and reading it back again for I/O. 12:49:27 Many schemes have a special reader they use for source code, that preserves line number information etc. 12:49:38 c-keen: aha. i suppose felix is the one who knows specifically what in cvjm's code needs to be made to work for this to work 12:49:48 Ideally, such macros should only be used in *that* reader. 12:50:01 alaricsp: I have started to make a custom reader that allows parameterization of all reader features! 12:50:05 c-keen: it'd be interesting to see some of the scheme code output, do you have any idea if this is available anywhere? 12:50:28 alaricsp: so you can e.g. configure it to only allow lists and symbols but no vectors, strings, etc. 12:51:00 or even extend it for special purposes without affecting the code reader 12:51:21 -!- dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:25 DerGuteMoritz: Interesting 12:51:46 Perhaps Scheme needs a separate serialize/deserialize that's just meant for shipping values to places portably 12:52:03 perhaps 12:52:15 Doesn't even do 'foo -> (quote foo) and all that 12:52:44 But that pains me slightly, making code and data "more different" 12:52:48 Or, we just avoid reader macros ;-) 12:53:21 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-206-139.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:53:31 but prohibiting reader macros in the standard doesn't seem like a good idea either 12:54:00 Is there any kind of comparison function in scheme that returns -1/0/1 à la C ? So that one can swith on a single comparison ? 12:55:06 c-keen,mario-goulart: looked through cvjm's code a bit now, i'm very impressed, it's a truly minimalistic implementation (~60KB code for compiler, ~30KB for runtime) 12:55:22 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-67/srfi-67.html 12:55:50 rudybot: eval (require srfi/67) 12:55:51 ijp: your plai sandbox is ready 12:55:52 ijp: Done. 12:56:02 rudybot: eval (if3 -1 'a 'b 'c) 12:56:03 ijp: ; Value: a 12:56:06 rudybot: eval (if3 0 'a 'b 'c) 12:56:07 ijp: ; Value: b 12:56:09 rudybot: eval (if3 1 'a 'b 'c) 12:56:10 ijp: ; Value: c 12:56:27 rixed: ^^ 12:56:39 *alaricsp* loves people like ijp that always know which SRFI holds the answer to one's problems! 12:56:57 haha 12:57:03 ijp, ijp, is there a procedure in Scheme that will make me rich and succesful? 12:57:08 *alaricsp* sits back hopefully 12:57:09 alaricsp: (error) 12:57:41 ijp: looks nice! thank you! 12:58:38 hm.. what about .Net, is there any C# jit code VM around that compiles to scheme code? 12:58:47 alaricsp: I hear it's in WG2 13:01:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.33.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:23 alaricsp: call/cc could be used for the "rich" part if you manage to capture a continuation of your bank account transaction while money is being transferred to it and then call it in an infinite loop! 13:02:54 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:09 alaricsp: when in doubt, use srfi-42 13:05:38 -!- ente [~daemon@unaffiliated/n0nsense] has quit [Quit: Caught SIGSEGV, exiting...] 13:06:07 Too bad it doesn't provide the answer to life, universe and everything 13:07:08 but it's eagerly trying to comprehend it 13:07:16 srfi-42 should have been reserved to be used as a meta-srfi. 13:08:23 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 13:11:03 :-) 13:14:10 drwho [~drwho@208.7.157.62] has joined #scheme 13:22:58 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 13:28:54 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 13:35:46 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:37:52 alaricsp: In the earlier days something vaguely related to AI might have made you rich and famous.... 13:38:04 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 13:39:05 (call-with-artificial-intelligence (lambda () ...)) 13:39:24 impressive 13:39:48 (call-with-high-hopes ...) 13:42:42 alaricsp: :) 13:47:13 (call-with-dog-whistle ...) 13:47:25 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 13:47:39 heh 13:47:45 (call-with-trepidation , (call-with-misgivings , (call-with-little-hope-of-a-result ... 13:48:03 ;-) 13:56:15 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 13:58:21 bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.125.15] has joined #scheme 13:58:22 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@92.81.211.142] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:58:48 is there a way to set! (cadr a-list) ? 14:00:13 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:01:30 some schemes support generalized set! and can (set! (cadr a-list) value), but you can always (set-car! (cdr a-list) val) instead 14:01:49 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 14:03:08 there's a srfi for that, too! 14:03:12 ijp: I need to set! cadar of a list and having hard times.. 14:03:30 yes, srfi 17 14:03:58 looks like racket doesn't have set-car! 14:04:21 racket is not scheme though 14:04:27 racket uses immutable pairs 14:04:31 *DerGuteMoritz* nitpicks 14:04:32 :-) 14:04:36 damn 14:04:40 mutable pairs are available through the mpair library 14:05:03 rudybot: eval (require racket/mpair) 14:05:03 ijp: Done. 14:05:21 ok, anyone knows any better scheme interpreter to work through SICP? I almost finished section 2 with racket(I'm using emacs, quack.el) 14:05:47 rudybot: eval (let ((a (mcons 1 2))) (set-mcar! a 'a) a) 14:05:47 ijp: ; Value: {a . 2} 14:06:34 If you use #lang r5rs, it will have mutable pairs 14:06:54 ijp: I have no idea what I'm using 14:07:00 ok, whatever 14:07:00 I think somebody mentioned a SICP package for Racket the other day 14:07:17 or was it for Guile? 14:07:25 I just neet get and put functions to solve problems in SICP 2.4.3 14:07:30 and 2.4.4 14:07:47 I was trying to write them myself but I didn't know this immutable pair thing 14:07:49 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:56 cmatei [~cmatei@2002:5f4c:1644:1234:21e:8cff:fe02:168a] has joined #scheme 14:08:06 (set-car! skoda-fabia #t) ;; Yes, it's a car. 14:10:39 rudybot: my other car is a cdr, &c 14:10:39 ijp: (let ((l (cdr (assoc "test" aalist)))) (apply (first l) (rest l))) is more what SNBarnett wants, I think. 14:10:48 ok, if anyone else is wondering, this put and get functions for SICP 2.4.3 works great http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5499005/how-do-i-get-the-functions-put-and-get-in-sicp-scheme-exercise-2-78-and-on 14:10:49 http://tinyurl.com/7g8824j 14:15:27 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 14:20:39 DerGuteMoritz, bsod1: There is a #lang sicp for Racket. 14:20:53 ah yes, that's what I meant 14:21:33 asumu: I have no idea what is #lang 14:21:33 (call-with-hipster-smirk ... 14:21:51 (call-with-air-quotes '...) 14:22:50 bsod1: #lang specifies which language a racket file will use. 14:23:29 http://code.call-cc.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=chicken-core.git;a=blob;f=library.scm;h=8075c2fd70887ca298b8e46f8e96543e0bcb3c11;hb=HEAD#l1535 14:23:29 http://tinyurl.com/7ww7q5j 14:23:48 ijp: I don't use racket's IDE. I'm using emacs with Racket interpreter, is there a way to load this #lang without racket IDE? 14:25:47 I think you can just (require) it 14:28:20 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 14:28:21 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:29:50 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:31:13 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:32:17 hkuieagle [~hk@unaffiliated/hkuieagle] has joined #scheme 14:32:25 hi 14:33:02 why this S-exp: (eq? 'a (car '('a))) returns #f? 14:33:32 rudybot: (car '('a)) 14:33:33 fds: your sandbox is ready 14:33:33 fds: ; Value: (quote a) 14:34:39 hkuieagle: you only need to quote the outermost expression, what you probably meant is (car '(a)) 14:35:02 hkuieagle: in your code the inner quote is quoted, too! 14:35:13 thus what fds said through rudybot :-) 14:36:02 -!- ijp [~user@host109-156-154-89.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: adios] 14:39:05 DerGuteMoritz: ok, but (car '('a)) values (quote a), which reduce (eq? 'a (car '('a)) to (eq? 'a (quote a)) which is #t. 14:39:36 hkuieagle: no, '(quote a) is a list while 14:39:43 err evaluates to a list 14:39:48 while 'a evaluates to a symbol 14:40:50 rudybot: ''a 14:40:50 fds: ; Value: (quote a) 14:40:57 rudybot: '('a) 14:40:57 fds: ; Value: ((quote a)) 14:41:16 And other fun things. 14:45:06 DerGuteMoritz, fds: ok, I got it, thx 14:45:31 yw :-) 14:45:58 dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 14:46:11 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 14:46:11 hi! does somebody have Qi II experience? 14:46:23 isn't that Shen? 14:47:38 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111102223350]] 14:48:58 Shen is a successor if Qi II. 14:49:02 s/if/of/ 14:50:19 ah, I see 14:54:25 bsod1: http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-sicp/ (you may or may not be able easily use this at the REPL) 14:56:52 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #scheme 14:58:06 jrslepak [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:58:37 -!- drwho [~drwho@208.7.157.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:25 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Quit: new kernel time!] 15:03:38 asumu: thanks, will try 15:08:42 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:41 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 15:14:30 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:17 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 15:17:20 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:21:31 jimmyrcom [~fold@adsl-75-53-33-186.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:22:55 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-26.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:22:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-26.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:31:28 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:34:14 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:35:40 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 15:42:53 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:46:52 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:46:54 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@46.105.251.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:19 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.160] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:50:41 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 15:57:57 -!- hkuieagle [~hk@unaffiliated/hkuieagle] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:36 -!- snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:56 woonie [~woonie@spnp240174.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 16:10:59 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #scheme 16:13:13 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 16:15:27 kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 16:15:32 -!- kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Changing host] 16:15:32 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 16:25:01 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:43 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 16:35:35 keenbug [~daniel@p5B2D96C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:36:08 hi 16:36:42 Hello! 16:36:44 What's your name? 16:36:46 I'm Alaric! 16:37:24 annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:37:55 i wanted to ask if somebody knows how to start a repl in racket on the terminal with r6rs as language instead of racket 16:38:20 alaricsp: do you mean me? 16:39:30 -!- incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:34 incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 16:40:01 keenbug: I didn't think Racket's r6rs mode is REPL-compatible, but I'm sure eli will correct me. 16:40:32 I seem to recall some talk that R6RS wasn't REPL-compatible due to something about modules and macros, actually 16:40:42 (even aside from any implementation decisions in Racket) 16:40:49 But, yes, eli is your man for Racket questions, I gather. 16:41:03 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:10 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:41:29 cky: but in drracket you actually have a repl 16:42:18 keenbug: In r6rs mode? Huh. 16:42:49 yeah, you only have to add the appropriate import for a r6rs script 16:42:55 Guys ever seen this, by the way? http://google-collections.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/javadoc/com/google/common/collect/Maps.html#transformValues(java.util.Map, com.google.common.base.Function) 16:42:55 http://tinyurl.com/7a5clre 16:43:14 klutometis: Of course. 16:43:19 Closest to functional programming I've ever seen in Java; was on the way to implementing something similar. Leave it to Google to do the trick. 16:43:33 cky: Really? I've been out of the Java loop for a few years. Maybe some things have changed. 16:43:40 Yes, I write lots of functional-style Java code at work using Guava. 16:44:04 I actually wrote (and am writing more) slides to teach my workmates on using Guava. 16:44:07 It's awesome. 16:44:38 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 16:44:39 keenbug: See http://blog.racket-lang.org/2008/06/plt-scheme-version-4.html 16:44:41 cky: Holy shit; thanks for the tip. 16:45:08 klutometis: I'll link you the slides when I'm not in an actual session. :-) 16:45:14 *cky* is currently attending Clojure/conj. 16:45:36 cky: Oh, congratulations! Wanted to go myself. 16:45:42 :-D 16:45:46 I see now, btw, that Guava replaces the old Collections stuff. 16:46:04 Yes. Google Collections have been deprecated for a long time, now. 16:49:54 cky: Sorry to bug you; but, Jesus, man: this may be as revolutionary as org-mode. 16:50:01 1. https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=0AY_pKEaed-eVZGc3YmI2bWpfMGc1N2ozeGQ4&hl=en&authkey=CPH1554J&pli=1 16:50:02 http://tinyurl.com/84xv894 16:50:24 2. https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=0AY_pKEaed-eVZGc3YmI2bWpfMWRtYmZ2ZmZo&hl=en&authkey=CJrh46cC&pli=1 16:50:24 http://tinyurl.com/7mego94 16:50:39 I haven't written 3 yet. Busy with work. :-P 16:50:41 cky: Cool, thanks. 16:51:00 There's more to Guava than just pseudo-functional programming, though; preconditions, etc. 16:51:05 This is fantastic. 16:51:12 Oh yeah, it's like Boost for Java. 16:53:26 alaricsp: there is no description about the command-line racket, there is only said how to get the r6rs repl in drrackt 16:54:41 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:55:18 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:51 myrkraverk [~johann@85-220-48-170.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #scheme 16:55:51 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@85-220-48-170.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Changing host] 16:55:51 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #scheme 16:56:06 cky: Good stuff, by the way; some of the slides have a "wall of text" feel: but good information density. 16:58:01 Thanks! I am trying to make the future slides less dense. :-) 17:00:08 Bizarre; I leave Java for a few years, and all of a sudden pseudo-functional programming, maven. 17:00:24 *klutometis* has to reevaluate his contempt. 17:00:41 Nah. 17:01:47 NullPointerException 17:02:13 Heh. 17:02:54 klutometis: oh, and Flash is dead. 17:03:01 -!- fizzie [fis@iris.zem.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:15 fizzie [fis@iris.zem.fi] has joined #scheme 17:10:11 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 17:13:46 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:20:46 setkarloz_anx [~wircer@201-229-18-1.setardsl.aw] has joined #scheme 17:21:11 -!- setkarloz_anx [~wircer@201-229-18-1.setardsl.aw] has left #scheme 17:22:35 qu1j0t3: Let's hope it can be fully replaced by HTML5/JavaScript/CSS3, without being as obscure 17:24:08 dostoyevsky: I see some people hoping that will happen. 17:24:15 dostoyevsky: there's many a slip 'twixt cup and lip. 17:24:27 dostoyevsky: Flash and Silverlight were symptoms, not the disease, imho :D 17:24:49 klutometis: Is maven a good thing? I remember it from around 2005, how long have you not been using Java? 17:25:49 *qu1j0t3* looked at maven in 2007, seemed over-complex for what we were doing. so did Hibernate. 17:25:56 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:25:59 Well, at least Adobe has no clue about proper Software Development, at least judging from all the bugs i keep seeing in Illustrator at the moment... 17:26:07 dostoyevsky: yus 17:26:14 dostoyevsky: that's traditional. in the 80s I used to report bugs to them. 17:26:20 dostoyevsky: in the 90s they stopped listening. 17:26:30 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26:34 dostoyevsky: by 2004, the stress from their bad OS X software was unbearable. 17:26:50 qu1j0t3: The answer is always: Restart your computer... Reinstall software... Works like magic but is annoying 17:27:01 dostoyevsky: their engineering is under-resourced. and arrogant. 17:27:05 dostoyevsky: bad combination :D 17:27:37 dostoyevsky: I still remember Illustrator 9.0 vividly. 17:27:44 dostoyevsky: it lasted 2 weeks in our studio, never, ever to return. 17:28:39 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:29:25 qu1j0t3: But but but, Maven is like APT for Java! :-P 17:30:46 cky: I'll let others find that out! 17:30:50 *qu1j0t3* doesn't do java currently 17:31:28 :-P 17:33:00 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.125.15] has left #scheme 17:34:10 qu1j0t3: I am using 14... I am happy that it at least works somehow. Maybe I should move it into a VirtualBox/Read-Only image... But then it might become too slow 17:34:50 soveran [~soveran@r186-48-207-246.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 17:35:03 dostoyevsky: i'm sure they've removed _some_ bugs in the last 8 years... hopefully more than they added... 17:38:48 dostoyevsky: Four years, probably; back then, ant was de rigueur and maven was infantile. Maven seems to be ubiquitous now; and Clojure, too, seems to have adopted some overweight package manager (e.g. Leiningen). 17:38:55 Hell, even Emacs has ELPA now. 17:39:41 Maybe it's really just the children of CPAN with which Perl has peopled the earth. 17:42:43 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 17:42:57 qu1j0t3: Heh; thanks. Long live HTML? 17:43:54 klutometis: Quicklisp! 17:44:08 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:49:20 jrapdx [~opera@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:50:20 snizzo [~quassel@host160-234-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 17:51:00 -!- jrapdx [~opera@c-76-105-198-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #scheme 17:52:38 If something approaching functional in the sense of functional programming, would you say that it approaches functionality or functionalism? I'd say the latter. 17:52:48 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@love.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:52:53 alaricsp [~alaric@love.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 17:53:19 drwho [~drwho@208.7.157.62] has joined #scheme 17:57:40 heh 17:57:42 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:58:07 -!- soveran [~soveran@r186-48-207-246.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:01:10 soveran [~soveran@r186-48-206-37.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 18:04:00 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 18:05:40 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-148-17.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:09:58 sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.63] has joined #scheme 18:11:29 soveran_ [~soveran@r186-48-206-37.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 18:11:31 -!- soveran [~soveran@r186-48-206-37.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:31 ijp [~user@host109-156-154-89.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 18:17:01 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:19:25 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:44 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 18:19:44 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 18:19:44 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 18:20:48 noob question: map procedure needs as much arguments as the procedure we apply? 18:21:08 yea 18:21:20 for example in cons: (map cons list1 list2) 18:22:50 jonrafkind, ok thank you :) 18:29:50 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 18:32:44 jrapdx [~jra@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:33:43 -!- soveran_ is now known as soveran 18:35:55 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:38:47 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 18:46:16 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:47:28 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 18:53:14 -!- drwho [~drwho@208.7.157.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:55:00 keenbug: Yeah, initializing the r6rs repl requires some stuff that is done by the drracket language, and I don't think that anyone bothered doing it outside of it. 18:55:27 alaricsp: That "seem to recall" is an indication that the FUD that you're referring to has been effective. 19:01:12 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:04:26 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 19:06:01 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 19:07:38 eli: okay, thank you 19:12:25 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p5B2D96C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:01 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:36 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@MYCMXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:23:15 eli: Effective in the sense that the original vector of the memory trace has been lost? 19:27:15 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 19:29:25 nome [~user@c-76-120-244-110.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:30:54 dnm_ [~dnm@li97-254.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 19:36:34 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-148-17.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:37:01 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:17 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:37:42 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 19:41:23 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:41:56 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 19:45:01 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:35 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 19:49:13 Ping. 19:49:34 Just to make sure I'm in the right channel, there's no Gauche Scheme-specific IRC channel anyone knows about, right? 19:50:26 *sjamaan* doesn't know of one 19:50:27 Not that I know of. 19:53:53 OK 19:53:55 Thanks. 19:54:52 klutometis: Yes, "some talk that R6RS wasn't REPL-compatible due to something about modules and macros" is bogus, but unsurprisingly lingers. 19:56:50 ~. 19:59:02 Oops. 19:59:11 Connection closed. 19:59:17 ;-D 19:59:27 See, it works. :) 19:59:34 :-) 20:00:16 sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 20:03:25 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-48-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04:14 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:14 Belaf 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