00:05:21 drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:34 luist [~luist@189.59.201.53] has joined #scheme 00:06:46 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:07:06 drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:08:56 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:17 heey is this a swiss chat? :) 00:09:19 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 00:12:09 wisey [~Steven@host86-147-41-203.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 00:14:59 luist: for you, it can be 00:15:21 qu1j0t3: what about others :P 00:25:59 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 00:27:34 -!- samth_ [~samth@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:37:47 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:23 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.219.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:49:48 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18:51:11 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:51:42 hoi 18:52:46 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:52:46 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 18:54:53 hi jcowan 18:55:18 Hey ho. 18:56:28 let's go! 18:57:36 "Do you like my hat?" "I do not. Goodbye." 18:57:57 --Go Dog Go 18:58:01 ;) 18:59:39 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:26:57 joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:27:07 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:27:07 joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has joined #scheme 19:30:52 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-84.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:31:58 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-84.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:33:12 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:25 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:53 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:06 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:35:07 luist_ [~luist@189.59.201.53] has joined #scheme 19:36:57 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:37:06 -!- luist_ [~luist@189.59.201.53] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:37:12 -!- luist [~luist@189.59.201.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:19 luist [~luist@189.59.201.53] has joined #scheme 19:38:03 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:39:38 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-84.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:42:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-84.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:46:48 chromaticwt [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 19:55:26 -!- chromaticwt [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:57:11 chromaticwt [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 19:57:15 -!- chromaticwt [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:23 chromaticwt [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:49 -!- f8l [~f8l@77-255-31-200.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:12:17 -!- framling [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:42 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:17:47 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-235.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:24:12 BW^- [~Miranda@92.83.176.140] has joined #scheme 20:24:58 -!- certainty [~david@port-657.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:26:00 vaguely OT: in linux, fork:ed a scheme app, the child which is supposed to be a background process, and an strace it launches, both respond to ctrl+c . any thought how make signal handling act as it should here? 20:30:57 That is the default state of things. In this case, you want the child to call setsid() to cease being controlled by the terminal. Furthermore, the child should immediately fork again and then die, allowing the grandchild to do the work. 20:31:20 In this way, the (grand)parent does not have to reap the grandchild; it will be reaped by the system init process. 20:33:19 jcowan: great. why put it in a grandchild - the grandparent would not need to reap, as in terminate/manage it, why? 20:33:21 Alternatively, the parent can use sigaction() to set SIGCLD (or is it SIGCHLD, I can never remember which is the righteous Posix spelling) to SIG_IGN. But there is no substitute for calling setsid() in the daemon. 20:33:47 If a process is not reaped by calling wait() on it, it hangs around forever, consuming a slot in the process table. 20:34:07 However, if the parent of a process is already dead, its parent-pid is set to 1, whose job it is to reap such zombies. 20:34:30 The sigaction() mechanism tells the kernel directly that the parent doesn't care about its children, with the same effect. 20:34:37 jcowan: yey, setsid() appears to deliver indeed - and stdout is maintained alive indeed. great! 20:37:10 So never create a child process whose fate you don't care about without using one of these two mechanisms, or your system will eventually grind to a halt because there are too many zombies infesting your process table. 20:37:31 jcowan: wait, so this thing about making it a grandchild - if i do neither of SIGCLD and making it a grandchild instead of a child, what would the potential issue be - it could remain executing unnecessarily long, in what conditions? 20:37:42 it will (exit) all by itself anyhow in just the right time, so it is fine. 20:37:47 No, the issue is that eventually you won't be able to create a process at all. 20:38:08 After calling exit(), the process still has one resource, its return value. That is stored in its slot in the process table, a finite size resource. 20:38:28 When it's full, yer hosed. 20:38:29 and this will be allocated all until the parent dies, yes? 20:38:35 Yes. 20:39:02 aha. this parent i'll only have 1 max ever 10 of in parallell, so in this case it's fine without reclaiming it. it's valuable to be aware of this though - aha 20:39:10 Okay. 20:39:48 but wait, if in the child i just make if (fork() != 0) exit(); thus making it a grand child, how does that unallocate the result value from the process table? 20:39:58 It doesn't directly. 20:40:12 But when the child terminates, the grandchild's parent becomes 1 (or init) 20:40:29 which provides the service of wait()ing for such orphaned zombies. 20:41:15 aah. and init is set up somehow to throw away these result values, when it gets such ascribed to it, and therefore we never get this accumulation problem - ok i'm with you. 20:41:20 Right. 20:41:48 Note that the original parent will still have to wait() for the original child, but since the child terminates immediately, this can be done immediately after the return from fork() in the parent. 20:43:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:43:35 jcowan: ..because the OS will unconditionally keep a copy of the child's exit value until it has been delivered to the parent (as done with wait), yes? 20:43:45 Just so. 20:44:11 Which is why the SIGCHLD mechanism (I looked it up this time) is superior. 20:44:49 jcowan: briefly - how come? (~10 years ago i think i looked at SIGCHLD once or twice, but don't remember what about it now) 20:45:18 The parent does it once, and then can fork any number of children. When the child terminates, the OS checks that the parent is in SIGCHLD == SIG_IGN state and just reaps the child on the spot without creating a zombie. 20:45:43 jcowan: btw, in this kind of use case, it's always best to make the child be the deamon, not the parent, right? 20:45:50 Yes. 20:46:01 tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:05 You still have to call setsid() in the child, even using the SIGCHLD mechanism. 20:47:07 aha. i'm with you. super 20:48:20 jcowan: haha fun, in the child if it makes an (error) thus throwing a REPL, it makes a smooth resource sharing with the parent of stdin&stdout, nice to see. anyhow that was completely secondary and not needed. 20:49:03 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-164-149.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:17 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-174-73.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:51:43 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 20:56:36 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 21:01:17 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.206.250] has joined #scheme 21:01:59 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-128-151.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:02:04 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:06:57 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 21:12:20 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 21:34:04 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:34:30 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 21:43:22 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:00 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:58 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:46:59 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 22:08:48 rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has joined #scheme 22:14:41 ijp` [~user@host109-154-207-248.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 22:15:37 -!- ijp is now known as Guest92299 22:16:05 -!- ijp` [~user@host109-154-207-248.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:48 -!- Guest92299 [~user@host86-169-103-210.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:20 -!- pon1980 [~pon1980@h195n2-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:21:54 brandelune_ [~suzume@pl316.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:28:51 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:33:22 pon1980 [~pon1980@h195n2-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #scheme 22:34:37 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C4385B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:35:39 tupi [~david@189.119.192.96] has joined #scheme 22:35:51 -!- pon1980 [~pon1980@h195n2-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:37 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:37 -!- luist [~luist@189.59.201.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:58 luist [~luist@189.59.201.53] has joined #scheme 22:46:51 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-60-106.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:47:34 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:30 -!- brandelune_ [~suzume@pl316.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune_] 22:54:56 Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has joined #scheme 22:56:59 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:24 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:23:58 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.150.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:32 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-60-106.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:49 -!- twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:36 twem2 [~tristan@puma-aaisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 23:37:03 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:37:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-77.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:26 -!- snizzo [~quassel@host185-237-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:18 -!- chromaticwt [~user@75-173-92-60.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:56:11 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@92.83.176.140] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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