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01:59:52 <rimmjob> how is 'eval, along with the functions it uses' equivalent to an interpreter?
02:03:21 <rimmjob> nvm i see
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04:12:19 <offby1> heh
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07:04:05 <foof> was anyone at the workshop?
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07:21:04 <wingo> a good question!
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08:28:07 <_p4bl0> seeing twitter, it seems like a lot of fun at the workshop
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08:28:52 <foof> who's tweeting?
08:29:43 <_p4bl0> @lambda_calculus among a few others
08:29:46 <_p4bl0> https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23scheme11
08:30:51 <_p4bl0> at least Danvy's keynote seemed fun
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14:45:28 <offby1> that floor at the workshop -- it's so covered in sawdust that I almost slipped
14:45:44 <cky> :-O
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15:27:32 <Giomancer> `hm
15:28:09 <Giomancer> Has anyone actually compiled mit scheme here?
15:28:25 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: still going eh
15:28:32 <Giomancer> Yes
15:28:38 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: i assume your question is specific to Windows
15:28:46 <Giomancer> As of now this is the principle.
15:28:59 <Giomancer> Man vs programs.
15:29:11 <Giomancer> I don't know if it is or not, tbh
15:29:11 <leppie> running on Cygwin?
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15:29:14 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: are you familiar with the def'n of yak shaving? :)
15:29:28 <Giomancer> NAIR firehose?
15:29:30 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: I am happy to attempt the build on the non-Windows system I am using, if that helps.
15:30:11 <Giomancer> leppie: If I was going to bother with that, I'd just do this on my arch vm.
15:30:25 <Giomancer> (Also: Cygwin can jump off a bridge)
15:30:26 <leppie> oh ok
15:30:30 <Giomancer> xD
15:30:34 <leppie> yes it can ;p
15:31:03 <Giomancer> But supposedly the configure script is running.
15:31:59 <leppie> how long does it take to compileon windows normally?
15:32:06 <Giomancer> I say supposedly because the terminal has stopped updating and the interpreter just says 'ABORTED'
15:32:24 <Giomancer> however, it has added a pair of new lines.
15:32:45 <Giomancer> leppie: I dunno; that's the problem. =/
15:33:16 <Giomancer> The "ABORTED" part doesn't exactly give me hope here.
15:33:31 *leppie* makes a note never to try compile mit-scheme on Windows :)
15:33:43 <Giomancer> well, for now
15:33:59 <Giomancer> like, if I succeed eventually it'll all be cool.
15:34:37 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: I can try this at home. I have an XP for games. Fun and games, like this, too, I suppose.
15:35:09 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: actually I have a W7 trial VM here too. Are you using W7?
15:35:19 <Giomancer> XP
15:35:23 <qu1j0t3> hm
15:35:27 <qu1j0t3> 32 or 64? Giomancer
15:35:31 <Giomancer> 32
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15:35:58 <Giomancer> okay..
15:36:08 <Giomancer> so I closed the interpreter
15:36:15 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: i wouldn't be able to look at it for another 8 hrs though
15:36:20 <Giomancer> rm: cannot remove directory `compiler/machine': Is a directory
15:36:45 <Giomancer> It can't remove a directory because it's a directory?
15:36:45 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: if that's okay, then please send an email summarising your environment and the problem, to support@telegraphics.com.au
15:36:54 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: correct. you would need rm -r
15:36:59 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: or rmdir
15:37:05 <Giomancer> Well!
15:37:42 <Giomancer> I'll take up your non-windows compilation offer.
15:38:00 <qu1j0t3> ok. let
15:38:03 <qu1j0t3> 's see...
15:38:12 <Giomancer> Because obviously the configure script HAS FREAKIN ISSUES.
15:38:33 <Giomancer> (like, we haven't got to the building part, people)
15:38:48 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: i have to say this is an amazing amount of effort just to avoid their binary installer.
15:38:58 <Giomancer> YES IT IS.
15:39:05 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: you building this? http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/ftpdir/scheme-7.5/7.5.17/
15:39:06 <Giomancer> Because binary installers suck
15:39:11 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: from which file?
15:39:53 <Giomancer> Also, I might note that I have actually already used the binary installer to get their damn compiler to work in the first place. Which it isn't.
15:40:11 <Giomancer> http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/
15:40:14 <Giomancer> Here
15:41:08 <Giomancer> And you have to love how their "portable" C isn't very portable.
15:41:11 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: so you're building the "portable C" ?
15:41:15 <Giomancer> No
15:41:19 <qu1j0t3> which then?
15:41:26 <Giomancer> BECAUSE IT ISN'T EFFING PORTABLE
15:41:33 *Giomancer* dies
15:41:37 <qu1j0t3> help me out here
15:41:40 <Giomancer> lol
15:41:44 <Giomancer> sorry, venting
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15:41:55 <Giomancer> I'm building from the source.
15:41:57 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: so you're using the comprehensive sources.
15:41:58 <qu1j0t3> ok
15:42:01 *qu1j0t3* proceeds
15:42:01 <Giomancer> Correct.
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15:42:46 <Giomancer> Now the reason I've gone to the full source is because their idea of "portable" C isn't very portable.
15:43:12 <Giomancer> It's preconfigured for nixy systems.
15:43:24 <Giomancer> ..which by definition means not portable.
15:43:52 <qu1j0t3> right, i'd agree that's only semi-portable.
15:43:59 <qu1j0t3> so. full C dl'ed.
15:44:07 <qu1j0t3> src*
15:44:35 <Giomancer> Honestly, I've never wanted to hunt down and strangle the people resposible for heading a gnu project before.
15:44:50 <Giomancer> ..except for stallman, but that's for other reasons.
15:44:58 <Giomancer> So he doesn't count
15:45:22 <qu1j0t3> are you on the mailing list?
15:45:26 <qu1j0t3> theymay welcome feedback
15:45:32 <qu1j0t3> okay, so i need to install a binary first.
15:45:34 *qu1j0t3* does that
15:45:53 <Giomancer> I was planning on giving feedback, yes.
15:46:28 <qu1j0t3> so, um, if you've already installed a binary via the installer, isn't the exercise moot? just trying to understand, here.
15:46:39 <qu1j0t3> or you want to climb this hill anyway for the principle of it
15:47:01 <Giomancer> If it doesn't work, and can't be traced to an error between keyboard and chair, they should be told.
15:47:10 <qu1j0t3> agreed
15:47:10 <Giomancer> Well, here's the deal.
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15:48:28 <Giomancer> The reason I hate installers is because I don't want my dev stuff tied into the OS via registry entries and got knows what
15:48:42 <Giomancer> I like knowing where everything is when it comes to these things
15:49:58 <leppie> Giomancer: odds are the installer just copies it to a directory and creates a shprtcut, no touching of registry
15:50:10 <alaricsp> chroot it!
15:50:12 <Giomancer> It shows up on add/remove programs
15:50:23 <Giomancer> And has an uninstaller
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15:50:27 <Giomancer> Now
15:50:28 <leppie> that's what I basiclly do with my installer, no need to get complex :)
15:51:01 <Giomancer> I did manage to extract the files from the installer
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15:51:07 <leppie> Giomancer: that is just tracked files, just zip up the directory, and try it somewhere else without installing
15:51:44 <Giomancer> leppie: I did, that's how I got this far in this crap ass-installation process.
15:52:21 <qu1j0t3> ah I see.
15:52:31 <qu1j0t3> so you've carefully managed to avoid running the installer :)
15:52:39 <qu1j0t3> at some cost, I might add :)
15:52:57 <Giomancer> It's like fighting the Elder Gods
15:53:18 <leppie> i would run the installer, then zip the install dir, then uninstall and try extract the zip to another dir and run
15:53:25 <Giomancer> You eventually go bonkers. You might win, but you're nuts.
15:53:37 <cky> leppie: Bzzt!
15:53:46 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: fyi, the installer for Mac is not an installer.. you just drag the binary to Applications. = mv
15:54:00 <cky> leppie: I'd: 1. snapshot the VM, 2. run the installer, 3. zip the installer, move to an off-VM location, 4. restore the snapshot.
15:54:15 <cky> leppie: I do _NOT_ trust uninstallers to be 100% clean.
15:54:19 <cky> Most of them are not.
15:54:21 <leppie> ahh ok :)
15:54:38 <cky> 3. zip the installed files, ...
15:54:40 <leppie> who cares really?
15:54:41 <cky> (brain fart)
15:54:45 <cky> leppie: Neat freaks care. :-D
15:54:51 <Giomancer> OCD.
15:54:59 <leppie> i have bigger files to worry about :)
15:55:05 <cky> And part of the reason I run a Unix system is that I'm an extreme neat freak. :-)
15:55:10 <cky> ...when it comes to my computer.
15:55:13 <Giomancer> God
15:55:30 <Giomancer> I should as well
15:55:34 <cky> :-)
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15:56:23 <Giomancer> But usually programming people are fairly considerate about not using installers and instead having tarballs
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15:56:39 <cky> That.
15:56:43 <Giomancer> In this case, however..
15:56:49 <Giomancer> Someone must DIE.
15:56:58 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: yes, you should. less pain. more neat.
15:57:07 <Giomancer> =/
15:57:07 *qu1j0t3* shudders at the appearance of C:\Windows\*
15:57:25 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: okay, i have the binary mv'd into /Applications and can now build...
15:57:32 <qu1j0t3> try to*
15:58:08 <Giomancer> If you get the same error, at least I'd know I'm not super bonkers.
15:58:12 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: no, i don't mean you should die. just move to a different o/s will probably take some stress away.
15:58:14 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: ya
15:58:22 <leppie> my c:\windows is only 29 865 107 031 bytes big with 83 186 Files and 21 282 Folders
15:58:37 <qu1j0t3> leppie: and apparently an accretive nightmare that nobody has authority to clean up
15:58:51 <leppie> 6 month install, pretty clean system still
15:59:00 <qu1j0t3> leppie: but i'm referring to the default install
15:59:16 <leppie> I think most of the space is for downloaded updates
15:59:24 <qu1j0t3> space? i'm talking about the mess :)
15:59:26 <qu1j0t3> but nm
15:59:54 <leppie> qu1j0t3: well you can clean it up, you just need to take ownership of the files
16:00:31 *wingo* does not understand hackers that use windows :P
16:01:17 *cky* does not understand Scheme hackers that use a C-based OS. :-P
16:01:52 <cky> (I actually do understand, still awaiting an awesome Scheme OS to turn up. ;-))
16:02:04 <alaricsp> You may be waiting some time!
16:02:11 <cky> :-)
16:02:22 <alaricsp> OS development is not a field known for its warm welcome to newcomers ;-)
16:02:22 <qu1j0t3> wingo++
16:02:48 <alaricsp> But if you want to have another crack at it: http://lists.tunes.org/mailman/listinfo/lispos
16:02:54 <cky> Nice.
16:03:49 <alaricsp> The happy days of my teenage years...
16:04:41 <Giomancer> And look at all that crap in the lib directory.
16:05:02 <qu1j0t3> looks fairly well organised to me. packages by name...
16:05:28 <qu1j0t3> and all the same type of object
16:05:38 <qu1j0t3> and purpose
16:06:08 <Giomancer> Fine, neatly-organized crap.
16:06:33 <qu1j0t3> crap? they're just shared libraries.
16:06:41 <qu1j0t3> if some belong to a package you don't need, de-install the package.
16:07:02 <Giomancer> :P
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16:07:23 <qu1j0t3> cky was serious when he said unix nourishes  his inner neat-freak
16:07:38 <Giomancer> Oh, I totally understand.
16:08:11 <Giomancer> I have a very neatly organized Arch VM and a MidnightBSD VM (that's in dev, based on openbsd)
16:08:54 <leppie> i made a 20MB bootable Linux CD once with X (and Portable.NET)
16:09:23 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: haha, first glitch on OS X source  build.
16:09:27 <qu1j0t3> etc/functions.sh: line 30: /Applications/MIT:GNU: No such file or directory
16:09:40 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: this is easily worked around, i think.
16:09:41 <Giomancer> Oh, I had that one
16:10:09 <Giomancer> That one I hammered at before I wound up in here
16:11:32 <Giomancer> ..though I think I had that issue with the "portable" C bit
16:11:50 <qu1j0t3> that was trivial to resolve, looks like.
16:11:53 <Giomancer> If you're actually compiling already, you're further than I
16:11:58 <qu1j0t3> configure is running.
16:12:37 <qu1j0t3> compiling -j16 :D
16:12:58 <qu1j0t3> so far so good
16:13:04 <Giomancer> Mine choked at create-makefiles.sh; yours didn't have the error mine did
16:13:15 <qu1j0t3> right. i think the moral is becoming clear.
16:13:25 <qu1j0t3> but it's not done yet!
16:13:34 <qu1j0t3> maybe it will fail in some spectacularly irreparable way.
16:13:57 <Giomancer> Maybe, but that doesn't help me at all. =/
16:14:48 <qu1j0t3> ok, indeed, it failed.
16:14:55 <Giomancer> =/
16:14:56 <qu1j0t3> ;unable to open file #[pathname 6072 "/Users/toby/Downloads/mit-scheme-9.1/src/compiler/machines/i386/dassm1.bin"]
16:15:03 <qu1j0t3> after 2 minutes.
16:15:10 <qu1j0t3> :D
16:15:27 *Giomancer* sighs
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16:16:26 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: maybe the lesson is to use a different Scheme :)
16:16:59 <Giomancer> Perhaps
16:17:46 <qu1j0t3> clearly there are kinks in their build process, and omitted instructions.
16:17:56 <qu1j0t3> i'll consider reporting this OS X stuff
16:18:33 *Giomancer* collapses from exhaustion
16:18:43 <Giomancer> Well, thanks for taking a shot at it.
16:19:28 <qu1j0t3> np.
16:22:40 <Giomancer> oh
16:22:48 <Giomancer> The other reason I hate installers
16:23:15 <Giomancer> They almost always make choices of where files should be for me
16:23:51 <Giomancer> Okay
16:24:11 <Giomancer> How did you fix the etc/functions.sh thing?
16:24:28 <Giomancer> (actually made it that far)
16:25:21 <qu1j0t3>  i had no problem like that
16:25:28 <qu1j0t3> the only thing was the one i pasted, then the final one
16:25:39 <Giomancer> <qu1j0t3> etc/functions.sh: line 30: /Applications/MIT:GNU: No such file or directory
16:26:00 <Giomancer> oh, I used double quotes
16:26:02 <qu1j0t3> oh, well  yeah that was trivial.
16:26:15 <qu1j0t3> i would be advising them of that, it's a missing checklist step.
16:30:11 <Giomancer> ok, single quotes didn't work either.
16:30:14 <Giomancer> oy
16:30:47 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: my fix was two symlinks, in /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/lib respectively.
16:31:16 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: but you have to bear in mind that the OS X "installation" is to move a bundle into /Applications first.
16:31:42 <qu1j0t3> so i have no idea what the right fix is for Windows
16:33:09 <Giomancer> apparently
16:33:16 <Giomancer> old dos file names
16:33:21 <Giomancer> progra~1
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16:49:21 <Giomancer> How do you escape a literal ? like \" or /" ?
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16:50:17 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: where?
16:50:32 <Giomancer> in bash?
16:50:33 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: *usually* a backslash, but escaping is very context dependent
16:50:52 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: in bash " quotes, \" will do what you expect.
16:51:02 <qu1j0t3> Giomancer: in bash ' quotes, it's not necessary to escape "
16:51:35 <Giomancer> okie
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16:55:08 <Giomancer> ugh
16:55:12 <Giomancer> Chicken it is
16:55:22 <Giomancer> Also, nap
16:55:29 <Giomancer> My head freakin hurts
16:55:32 <Giomancer> >.<
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19:11:20 <ttvd> hi, i have a question about scheme's #.. what does # really mean? does it mean symbol? in #f and #t for example?
19:11:38 <cky> ttvd: It means "special thing".
19:11:55 <cky> So, what special thing it is depends on the character following the #.
19:11:59 <cky> If it's t or f, it's boolean.
19:12:03 <cky> If it's (, it starts a vector.
19:12:42 <ttvd> but boolean is not really a type?
19:12:43 <cky> If it's e or i, that's exact or inexact.
19:12:53 <cky> rudybot: (boolean? #t)
19:12:54 <rudybot> cky: ; Value: #t
19:12:56 <cky> rudybot: (boolean? #f)
19:12:56 <rudybot> cky: ; Value: #t
19:13:23 <ttvd> but technically if i were to implement my own booleans i could use something else
19:13:30 <ttvd> like #apple and #orange
19:13:40 <cky> No, you have to support #t and #f at the reader level.
19:13:45 <ttvd> i see
19:13:50 <ttvd> thank you sir
19:13:54 <cky> :-)
19:14:11 <cky> ttvd: Another example to illustrate:
19:14:30 <cky> rudybot: (call-with-input-string "(#t #f #orange #apple)" read)
19:14:31 <rudybot> cky: error: UNKNOWN::7: read: bad number: range
19:14:37 <cky> Hahahaha.
19:14:43 <cky> #o is interpreted as octal.
19:14:51 <cky> So, range are not valid octal digits.
19:15:00 <cky> #x is hexadecimal.
19:15:11 <cky> rudybot: (call-with-input-string "(#t #f)" read)
19:15:12 <rudybot> cky: ; Value: (#t #f)
19:15:15 <ijp> # is so overloaded it's ridiculous
19:15:20 <cky> ijp: Hehehehe.
19:15:37 <ttvd> haha
19:15:43 <ttvd> nod :)
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19:16:00 <cky> ttvd: That "(#t #f)" has to read as a list with two boolean objects (#t and #f), not two symbols with the values #t and #f.
19:16:35 <cky> rudybot: (call-with-input-string "(|#t| |#f|)" read)
19:16:36 <rudybot> cky: ; Value: (|#t| |#f|)
19:16:47 <cky> That is a list with two symbols.
19:17:46 <ttvd> is there a channel were i can play with this scheme bot without flooding this channel?
19:18:01 <cky> ttvd: You can /query rudybot directly.
19:18:32 <ttvd> cool
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19:52:53 <dostoyevsky> Just heard that John McCarthy died...
19:53:03 <cky> :-O
19:53:10 <fds> Link?
19:53:27 <dostoyevsky> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCarthy_(computer_scientist)
19:53:44 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme
19:54:03 <dostoyevsky> But no good other links so far...  maybe someone is playing a joke..
19:54:15 <leppie> all over twitter it seems
19:54:18 <jcowan> The edit history says "personal communication from sister"
19:54:21 <mario-goulart> O_O
19:54:39 <jcowan> Let's hope it's one of those Mark Twain things.
19:55:12 <jcowan> "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
19:56:00 <qu1j0t3> :<
19:56:09 <qu1j0t3> dostoyevsky: what's the date on the edit?!
19:56:25 <leppie> seems the rapture are taking people slowly...
19:56:50 <jcowan> qu1j0t3: Yesterday
19:56:52 <qu1j0t3> leppie: well, we only ever hear about the famous ones.
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19:58:21 <ttvd> sorry again for maybe a noob question, this book says general syntax of lambda is (lambda (var..) body1 body2..) my question is how exactly are those multiple bodies evaluated and what is returned? I understand when it's 1 body.
19:58:47 <qu1j0t3> ttvd: they're not multiple bodies
19:58:49 <ttvd> does it just return result of the first one?
19:58:51 <qu1j0t3> ttvd: they're a list of forms
19:58:56 <dostoyevsky> qu1j0t3: It was changed about two hours ago and then reverted and then changed back...
19:58:57 <qu1j0t3> ttvd: no, the last one provides the value
19:59:28 <ttvd> so last body returns the value
19:59:31 <qu1j0t3> ttvd: body1 body2 means "first and second forms which comprise the body"
19:59:34 <jcowan> ttvd: All are evaluated in left to right order and then the last value is returned.
19:59:36 <qu1j0t3> ttvd: last form in the body yes
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19:59:50 <qu1j0t3> ttvd: there can be any number as you see from the '..'
19:59:57 <qu1j0t3> dostoyevsky: :/
20:00:00 <ttvd> so for example something like (define ..) (define.. ) (actual expression)
20:00:58 <ttvd> thanks
20:05:01 <qu1j0t3> ttvd: that's a bit different
20:05:36 <cky> qu1j0t3: Eh, it still applies.
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20:05:49 <cky> qu1j0t3: It's more functional than side-effecting stuff in the earlier forms. ;-P
20:06:07 <qu1j0t3> cky: I know
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20:08:26 <ttvd> so what purpose does having these extra forms, which are not returned serve? just to modify current frame's environment?
20:09:05 <cky> ttvd: You can do side-effecting stuff with them. e.g., set!, set-car!, vector-set!, etc.
20:09:22 <ttvd> nod
20:09:29 <ttvd> thanks
20:10:08 <cky> I/O is also side-effecting in this context. :-)
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20:12:36 <jcowan> Although often they are definitions.
20:13:27 <cky> Indeed.
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20:26:17 <jcowan> Historical question: does anyone know of a Lisp earlier than PDP-6 Lisp that has caar, cadr, cdar, etc.?  PDP-1 Lisp did not, as far as its documentation goes.
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20:30:59 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: the univac one does. http://www.frobenius.com/reference.htm
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20:32:45 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: but it may not predate pdp-6
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20:42:38 <jcowan> qu1j0t3: Thanks.  Up to 35!
20:44:14 <jcowan> It says "late 1960s", so probably does not predate PDP-6 Lisp (which is the most recent common ancestor of Interlisp, Common Lisp, and Scheme)
20:44:37 <jcowan> and came out in 1966
20:45:07 *jcowan* checks Quux & RPG only now like an idiot instead of first off.
20:49:13 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: right, the univac 1100 stuff has no dates in the source, and was being published about as late as 1980 (!!) so I doubt it predates
20:49:31 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: it may have begun in the late 1960s though
20:49:49 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: actually, Quadrescence can find out
20:50:28 *jcowan* nods.
20:50:28 <jcowan> Thanks.
20:50:39 <jcowan> I'm trying to look at the source of CTSS Lisp to see what's what there.
20:52:12 <weinholt> http://history.siam.org/sup/Fox_1960_LISP.pdf  there's a caar on page 16
20:52:17 <qu1j0t3> wow
20:52:31 <weinholt> and various other ones...
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20:54:29 <jcowan> CTSS supports up to 3 A's or D's
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20:55:13 <klutometis> dostoyevsky: You might have been trolled; I was trolled similarly by reports of Sussman's demise a couple weeks ago.
20:55:42 *klutometis* learned today that he has at least three things in common with McCarthy: Baltic, Irish, Jewish.
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20:56:18 <Qworkescence> jcowan, I'm asking my old-timer buddies about the pre-pdp-6 CAR/CDR compositions for you.
20:56:18 <klutometis> Too bad the intersection of those things is broad enough to be meaningless.
20:57:49 <klutometis> dostoyevsky: Or not: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCarthy_(computer_scientist)
20:58:00 <klutometis> Sorry: <http://twitter.com/#!/wendyg/status/128554733714669568>.
20:58:20 <jcowan> Yes, they aren't declaring him dead without a source.
20:58:27 <jcowan> So we can expect oscillations.
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21:05:50 <danking> Dennis Ritche, Jay McCarthy. If it's true, this will make for a high density of deaths in the field.
21:05:51 <wingo> whither riastradh
21:06:47 <turbofail> s/jay/john/
21:07:10 <turbofail> i'm pretty sure jay is still around
21:09:57 <danking> turbofail: >_> My bad. John McCarthy.
21:10:27 <turbofail> although as long as we're spreading rumors i guess we could go with that one too
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21:21:14 *jld* was very careful when reporting McCarthy's demise to make sure he didn't get the wrong one, or otherwise misspell the name.
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21:22:03 <jld> e.g., Joe McCarthy: also dead, but not news.
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21:24:46 <klutometis> wingo: Good question; I'm worried, actually.
21:28:44 <Qworkescence> jcowan, you there?
21:28:52 <Qworkescence> beh I'll PM you
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21:43:49 <dostoyevsky> klutometis: On hackernews... PG says he asked Peter Norvig and he confirmed...
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21:43:58 <dostoyevsky> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3151233
21:44:42 <dostoyevsky> Oh well... I guess I go to bed now...
21:47:06 <jcowan> Cormac McCarthy is still with us, more's the pity.
21:47:17 <jcowan> (Not that I actually want him dead.)
21:49:01 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #scheme
21:51:10 <jcowan> I have just proposed dedicating R7RS-small to his memory.
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21:56:44 <klutometis> jcowan: Cormac or John?
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21:58:11 <jcowan> John.  Obviously.  I wouldn't dream of dedicating a report to someone who didn't at least share my first name.
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22:01:07 <klutometis> What a bizarre month, folks; we're passing from the Golden Age of computing when, according to Hesiod, "people lived among the gods, and freely mingled with them."
22:01:58 <jcowan> Well, some people freely mingled with them.  I have never met a demigod in my life, nor really exchanged email with any either.
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22:07:11 <klutometis> jcowan: Yeah; but somehow the remote possibility of mingling was a good proxy for mingling itself. Now that the mingling-potential is practically zero, things seem bleak.
22:08:40 <klutometis> I say, "practically zero;" would someone had perfected cryogenesis or something similar.
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22:11:02 <klutometis> No, I take that back; PBUH and all that.
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22:16:22 <jcowan> http://i.imgur.com/Y02DM.jpg
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22:18:13 <klutometis> jcowan: Yes, a hundred times this; somehow I prefer this version, however, where McCarthy looks even more feral: <http://www.catonmat.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/john-mccarthy-programming-completely-wrong.jpg>.
22:18:13 <rudybot> http://tinyurl.com/6r65ap
22:18:49 <klutometis> Or maybe it's just because his penetrating eyes look just like my thesis advisor's.
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22:24:48 <klutometis> There's a pissing contest at HN, by the way, on how to "properly" lispify this statement: (he (will (be (dearly (missed)))))
22:25:03 <klutometis> (will-be 'john-mccarthy (modifier 'missed 'dearly)), (He (will be) (dearly missed)) are candidates.
22:25:16 <klutometis> ((will-be (dearly missed)) he)
22:25:22 <klutometis> (will-miss 'john-mccarthy :dearly t)
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22:25:37 <klutometis> I like the penultimate one.
22:26:17 <turbofail> yeah the penultimate one is definitely the most idiomatic
22:26:34 <jcowan> any ops around to update the topic?
22:27:22 <klutometis> jcowan: Riastradh has ominously disappeared; I thought elly was OUAT. Chandler?
22:29:16 <klutometis> Damn: it just occurred to me that Knuth is a septuagenarian; godspeed on TAOCP, man!
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22:53:48 <cky> klutometis: Aye, aye.
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22:58:15 <klutometis> cky: Despite cancer, he says: "At the moment I feel as healthy as ever, modulo being 70 years old. Words flow freely as I write TAOCP and as I write the literate programs that precede drafts of TAOCP."
22:58:33 *klutometis* crosseth his fingers.
22:59:20 <Qworkescence> klutometis, where does he say that?
22:59:37 <klutometis> Qworkescence: http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Knuth/donald_knuth_interviews.shtml
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23:06:04 <klutometis> Hmm; according to Solon, Knuth must be in that tenth heptad of life where "the time has come to depart." According to Knuth, though, Knuth is in the seventh and eighth heptad; where "the tongue and the mind are at their best." http://www.thehumanodyssey.com/2008/01/the-stages-of-2.html
23:07:27 <klutometis> Sorry to get all Paleohellenic; something about this mortal correspondence brings me back.
23:08:53 <Qworkescence> Can we depart from Scheme and heptads and discuss what should go on my grocery list for a minute?
23:10:44 <jcowan> Unless the Working Group vetoes it, the R7RS will be dedicated to McCarthy's memory.
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23:13:12 <qu1j0t3> Qworkescence: well, what do you like to eat?
23:13:28 <Qworkescence> qu1j0t3, i am not sure i need ideas
23:13:34 <qu1j0t3> Qworkescence: I think though you will need considerable Kleenex and red wine tonight.
23:13:36 <klutometis> jcowan: Fantastic; here's hoping that Abelson and Sussman hang around until R(n>=10)RS or so, so that the in memoriam epigraph stays thin.
23:13:53 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: hear, hear.
23:14:11 <Qworkescence> qu1j0t3, cookies, brownies, tgi fridays things, milk, eggs, mozzarella, ice cream, yogurt, soup, ginger ale, cereal
23:14:28 dlzerty057 [~dlzerty@47.236.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme
23:15:07 <dlzerty057> hi
23:22:24 <dlzerty057> bonjour
23:22:27 <dlzerty057> ya qq1 ?
23:24:02 <qu1j0t3> dlzerty057: hello.
23:29:13 <dlzerty057> speak fr ?
23:30:00 <qu1j0t3> dlzerty057: peu
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23:58:11 <azathoth99> pcioscheme anyone?
23:58:16 <azathoth99> or tinyscheme