00:04:42 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-130-147.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:16:54 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:20 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 00:17:38 This always gets me: if you wanted to describe a pair consisting of e.g. an index and a mark, `(index . mark)' would you call it: index-mark, index+mark, index&mark, index*mark. 00:18:25 Ampersand and plus are usually reserved for multiple values; star was the suggestion of some smart ass who claims that concatenation is more similar to multiplication than addition (cf. Cartesian product). 00:18:40 Hyphen is not expressive. 00:20:08 -!- dwim__ [~dwim@87.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:24:14 index+mark 00:24:38 Agree with jonrafkind. 00:24:47 klutometis: In SRFI 1, there's a function called car+cdr. 00:24:59 rudybot: (require srfi/1 srfi/8) 00:24:59 cky: Done. 00:25:28 rudybot: (receive (a d) (car+cdr '(foo . bar)) (format "car = ~a, cdr = ~a~%" a d)) 00:25:28 cky: you should check that car/cdr are ok, no need to check the whole lit 00:25:36 rudybot: eval (receive (a d) (car+cdr '(foo . bar)) (format "car = ~a, cdr = ~a~%" a d)) 00:25:36 cky: ; Value: "car = foo, cdr = bar\n" 00:25:54 klutometis: So the car+cdr is a good pattern to model, methinks. 00:28:03 cky: Oh, right: `+' signifies multiple values; thanks for reminding me of `/'. 00:28:25 :-) 00:28:28 I've seen `&' do the same thing; but we're not talking multiple values, unfortunately: just a pair. 00:28:36 True. *nods* 00:28:47 Maybe the analogy is the same, though. 00:34:08 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34:58 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:37:14 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:46:45 I would go with index×mark :-) 00:47:59 indexmark 00:48:34 Of course, there's nothing wrong with index.mark either. 00:48:45 Unless you have an object system that works like that. :-) 00:48:57 Or if you use it as your field accessor symbol thingie. 00:52:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-105-29.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:11 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:55:03 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 00:56:29 timpersand [~chatzilla@adsl-99-187-239-15.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:57:43 arcfide: My irssi still doesn't do unicode, for some reason; what was the connecting symbol there? 01:02:03 code point: 0x2227 name: LOGICAL AND 01:04:14 -!- smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire_] 01:05:50 smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 01:08:38 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@GYMMMDLI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:12 offby1: Thanks. 01:11:33 arcfide: That's really clever, actually. 01:14:13 And done; I would say, "shit's cash": but there's no easy way to type \u2227. That's ok, though; thank (gods) for kill and yank. 01:14:36 *offby1* thanks RMS 01:14:46 *klutometis* makes a mental note to say ``kill and yank'' where ``cut and paste'' are more colloquial. 01:15:29 soveran_ [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 01:15:29 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:37 offby1: Oh, didn't that cranky flute-player come up with that? Nice. 01:15:47 s/didn't/did/. 01:15:59 *offby1* stares blankly 01:17:09 offby1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3kR6pPN6J0 01:17:13 *qu1j0t3* remembers that terminology from e.g. WordMaster 01:17:53 -!- timpersand [~chatzilla@adsl-99-187-239-15.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:18:03 offby1: Not the best artifact, actually. 01:20:20 qu1j0t3: Did WordMaster later become WordStar? 01:23:31 klutometis: gaah. There's no way in hell I'm gonna watch a video of RMS playing the flute. 01:24:42 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 01:24:50 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.222.225] has quit [Quit: Out of quarters] 01:24:59 klutometis: I believe that's the lineage yes 01:25:13 klutometis: WordMaster was more of a programmer's visual editor 01:26:31 -!- soveran_ [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:49 offby1: Good call, good call: it turns out that YouTube just came out with an olfactory module, too; so better not click. 01:26:57 -!- jrapdx [~jra@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:51 *offby1* flees 01:28:02 *offby1* clears his browser cookies 01:28:05 *offby1* washes his hands 01:30:45 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 01:35:53 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:41:56 ... 01:42:04 *qu1j0t3* washes offby1's feet 01:47:43 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:47:54 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:49:24 -!- elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:57 Hal9k [~Hal@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 01:56:47 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:58:32 eww 01:59:06 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:24 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 02:00:03 karlito [~karl@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:21 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:05:31 -!- karlito [~karl@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:50 kniu [~karl@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:05:53 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 02:07:46 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:08:41 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:13:43 -!- Hal9k [~Hal@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:26:35 -!- tali713 is now known as GNUtali713 02:28:13 -!- GNUtali713 is now known as tali713 02:31:51 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:55 elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 02:34:57 Is `list-ref' really O(n)? 02:35:39 I assume so, if a given Scheme is using a naive linked list implementation; and I also assume that, since no bound is given in SRFI-1, I can't assume O(1) (and should use vectors if I need O(1)). 02:37:41 Since I need both random-access and parellel-world-mutation, I'm going to have to resort to liberal `vector-copy'; I guess. 02:37:48 s/parellel/parallel/. 02:39:28 Hmm: `vector-copy' is probably O(n), so that's a lower-bound; anyway. Better see whether I'm copying more than referencing (or vice versa) before making the call. 02:40:10 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:28 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:40:58 klutometis: O(n) is pretty much guaranteed, afaik. 02:41:12 klutometis: it's in the fine print of your contract :D 02:41:44 "Before using the CONS primitive I agree that I have read the terms and conditions, including the Time/Space complexity section of this contract..." 02:42:27 "I indemnify the implementation against all accusations of runtime intransigence..." 02:43:21 it's the unfortunate dis-ease of changing these decisions at a late stage that makes me uncomfortable with scheme sometimes 02:43:34 that can be mitigated methinks. 02:43:47 it can, somewhat 02:44:01 besides, you know what it is, going in. 02:44:08 unlike, say, a PHP franken-array 02:44:10 well, completely if you're prepared to put the work in up front 02:44:11 *qu1j0t3* shudders 02:44:25 right, and you can do that upfront, because you know it's an O(n) list 02:45:19 whatever language you use you really need to check the label on the box of the data structure ... right? 02:45:50 I guess "uncomfortable" is the wrong word .. surprised, and prompted to question my world-view, that a language so suited to ADTs doesn't seem to have this part of them in its culture 02:46:23 I guess -ref is one thing; lists are constructed entirely differently 02:47:04 the CONStruction implies the behaviour of -ref 02:47:16 *qu1j0t3* would prefer a language without a magick list. 02:47:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:45 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:47:46 I like the idea of generic, interchangeable containers 02:48:02 i don't see why you couldn't do that in scheme. 02:48:31 i have grave problems with php's array that are both floor topping and dessert wax. 02:48:40 no reason 02:48:43 but i know what you mean. 02:49:38 collections classes have a place i agree 02:49:54 i just like that the primitive is unpretentious and predictable :) 02:51:02 It's an unassuming little primitive, but I think you'll be amused at its presumption 02:51:19 offby1: bouquet of old socks, cherries, and benzene 02:52:05 having some operations that "work" on all collections is nice, as is having syntax for map types / vector types, I will admit. :p 02:52:08 http://backwatersman.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/thurber2.jpg 02:52:11 mithos28 [~eric@99-113-32-54.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:22 finnrobi: yes. 02:52:30 qu1j0t3: a fine wine which really opens up the sluices at both ends. 02:52:49 finnrobi: my first exposure to collections of this type (hrhr) would be smalltalk-80, i guess. 02:52:56 By the way: how would you guys express the cardinality of a set A: n-A, |A|? 02:53:17 qu1j0t3: it sounds like we're born in different decades - python was the first programming language I ever used :-) 02:53:17 offby1: This is a wine for laying down and AVOIDING. 02:53:38 finnrobi: i think you're right :) 02:54:08 I hadn't actually programmed anything until I was in my second year of university, studying geology 02:54:08 finnrobi: I was born between Apollo 11 and Apollo 12. 02:54:25 one year left of my computer science master degree now :o 02:54:31 *offby1* had to push a carton of punch cards to the data center in the snow, uphill both ways 02:54:32 finnrobi: congrats! 02:54:57 turns out that ideas are more interesting than rocks 02:55:00 ;-) 02:55:45 finnrobi: what about moon rocks? 02:55:53 that does sound pretty interesting 02:56:11 but I bet it would be really disappointing if I got my hands on one 02:56:30 maybe you'd get a cool outer-space disease from it 02:56:38 offby1: oh u 02:56:45 no, u 02:57:09 would I be able to claim discovery of extraterrestrial life if I did? :D 03:00:28 only if it doesn't claim you first 03:00:33 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 03:00:58 i read an awesome story recently about some guy who stole nasa's collection of moon rocks, plastered them all over a hotel bed, and had sex with his girlfriend on them 03:01:19 well a girl he was trying to impress, anyway 03:01:37 i suspect any diseases he caught were strictly terrestrial in nature though 03:01:54 if P, Q are macros, and I want to define a macro R which is equivalent to (P (Q x)), but I want Q to expand prior to (P ..), is there a typical idiom for doing this? 03:01:55 like, "ow, ow" 03:01:57 "pointy" 03:02:05 in R5RS 03:02:09 Quadrescence: gaah. 03:02:43 offby1, use case: expanding a set of bindings in a LET-like form 03:05:12 in R5RS i don't think you get much of anything 03:06:47 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #scheme 03:07:04 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:08:51 frhodes [~frhodes@md42736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:36 -!- JoelMcCracken [~user@pool-72-95-162-220.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09:40 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:10:05 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:11:10 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:14:32 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:20:07 timpersand [~chatzilla@adsl-99-187-239-15.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:24:19 -!- timpersand [~chatzilla@adsl-99-187-239-15.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 03:28:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-179.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:30:09 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.125.89] has joined #scheme 03:30:35 Quadrescence: Isn't that already automatic+ 03:30:36 ? 03:30:39 Oh, wait. 03:30:45 P is a macro. :-P 03:31:54 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:33:50 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:36:58 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:01 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:43:21 Hal9k [~Hal@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 04:03:06 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 04:04:49 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:09:42 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:42 aehrisch [~aehrisch@vhost.knauel.org] has joined #scheme 04:11:18 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:23 -!- smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire_] 04:42:50 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:45:06 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 04:45:14 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-251-16-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:45:14 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 04:58:47 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:59:13 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:06:48 -!- Hal9k [~Hal@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09:55 mutt 05:10:04 *klutometis* whoopses. 05:19:53 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:35:38 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:38:17 -bash: mutt: command not found - did you mean emacs --eval '(gnus)' 05:42:56 Heh. 05:42:57 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:44:48 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:36 Just kidding - mutt is the only decent mail client in existence. 05:53:16 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:03:41 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:20:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.125.89] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:33:54 hba [~hba@189.229.191.31] has joined #scheme 07:12:30 foof: Isn't it usually described with a double negative? Something about: "mutt merely sucks less than other email clients." 07:13:27 true enough 07:16:33 -!- mithos28 [~eric@99-113-32-54.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: mithos28] 07:21:48 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:27:53 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-234.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:32:53 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 07:44:36 With dynamic parameters, are you forced to do something like the following to avoid race conditions? 07:44:48 (define n (make-parameter 2)) 07:44:57 (let ((n (n))) (* n n)) 07:45:22 As opposed to merely: (* (n) (n)) 07:48:31 -!- C-Keen is now known as everyone 07:48:36 -!- everyone is now known as C-Keen 07:50:02 -!- C-Keen is now known as everyone 07:50:14 -!- everyone is now known as C-Keen 07:53:29 -!- noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:53:40 klutometis: you're using threads and non-thread-local parameters? 07:55:36 hkBst: No, not even using threads; it's a far-fetched race-condition. 07:55:48 Race-condition-hypochondria, even. 07:56:09 noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 07:56:16 ah, you mean a race-condition involving cosmic rays... 07:56:38 Yeah; or some other adversarial daemon. 08:00:09 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:00:32 -!- hba [~hba@189.229.191.31] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:01:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-234.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:03:01 klutometis: (define (square n) (* n n)) 08:08:17 *aspect* is mildly amused by a thread on reddit: "isn't Racket just a new name for Scheme?" "For those of you unfamilar with Racket, it was formerly called Scheme" 08:14:54 Heh 08:15:14 Proves that PLT Scheme wasn't a good name? 08:19:22 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #scheme 08:41:12 -!- noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:51:07 noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 08:51:32 Pritchard [~Pritchard@unaffiliated/pritchard] has joined #scheme 08:55:07 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:59:49 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:39 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:22:36 Anyone in here use Chicken Scheme? 09:23:50 yes? 09:25:41 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 09:28:20 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-44-207.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 09:29:51 How is it? Any good? 09:30:12 yes. :) 09:30:49 why don't you try it and see for yourself? 09:35:08 Pritchard: Out of MIT/GNU, PLT, Guile, SISC, Kawa, Scheme 48 and Chez, it's my favorite (though the former have their place); only Chibi-Scheme vies with Chicken in terms of pleasure-to-use and usefulness. 09:35:56 Actually, Chibi-Scheme hasn't been that useful for me in production yet; pleasure-to-use remains, though. 09:44:38 de gustibus non est disputandum :) 09:45:06 -!- confab [~win7@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:45:38 omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina 09:45:46 hee hee 09:46:53 or I think the more popular phrase would be quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur 09:52:11 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-60-165.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 09:56:53 -!- lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:00:52 *alaricsp* hopes for a day when it becomes practical to write Scheme, then choose an implementation to run it on. 10:01:24 There will always be implementation extensions, and things that just have to be done in an implementation-specific way (GUIs etc), but the common subset will hopefully be a lot more useful if R7RS is a success. 10:03:07 Like klutometis, I like chicken and chibi as well, but guile also has positive attributes (like, it's integrated into many GNU applications, and will hopefully be alongside elisp before long; and probably other benefits that wingo can tell us about!) 10:03:44 Sure, projects of mine such as Ugarit stray well into implementation-specific territory (it FFIs to a lot of C code), and that's an acceptable reason to remain implementation-dependent 10:04:14 But plenty of other stuff doesn't ;-) 10:08:24 alaricsp: Devoutly to be wished. 10:09:25 Huzzah! 10:20:19 masm [~masm@2.80.130.147] has joined #scheme 10:28:36 What's the intuitive operator precedence for conjunction/disjunction in colloquial English: e.g. does ``A and B or C and D'' get parsed as ``(A and B) or (C and D)''? 10:28:53 There's , of course; but I'm not sure if that's understood colloquially. 10:29:06 Or maybe colloquial English is just as good as #. 10:30:13 It's all down to how fast you speak 10:30:34 I say "AandB ... or ... CandD" or "A and ... BorC ... and D" 10:30:59 INVISIBLE PARENS! 10:32:01 If you want to nest more than eight levels deep, you need to leave an entire meal between things at the top level, alas. So it doesn't scale too well. 10:36:16 meals are lovely 10:36:23 depends on what you are optimizing for i guess 10:37:32 alaricsp: Heh; that's pretty funny. And probably true. 10:39:02 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 10:39:10 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:39:26 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:41:07 wingo, wingo, what's your favourite thing about Guile? Widespread deployment in apps? Multiple language front-ends? Named after a Street Fighter? Something else entirely? 10:41:45 (I am curious about the unique distinguishing strengths of each and every Scheme implementation, with a view to maybe writing a blog post about how lovely havings lots of implementations will be WHEN THEY BLOODY INTEROPERATE NONTRIVIAL CODE) 10:44:12 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:27 alaricsp: tough to say; i think the interactive development experience is my favorite thing about it. i only hack standalone scheme apps so i don't use embeddability and other languages, personally. 10:45:58 *alaricsp* notes that down in his copy-book 10:46:52 Yeah, I think I remember something from your "haps" talk about reloading modules in a webapp without restarting, come to think of it 10:47:48 IIRC, Chicken has somewhat leaky support for that due to not garbage collecting .sos; you'll run out of address space if you keep doing it ;-) 10:51:32 it would probably take a long time for that to happen :) 10:51:50 depending on your definition of nontrivial, you can get quite far with R6RS (if it wasn't treated like some demonic three headed baby) 10:52:52 *wingo* agrees with ijp; there's no reason for implementations not to provide subsets of the r6rs 10:53:11 and some subsets are quite useful 10:55:11 while I'm sure it won't be entirely possible, I intend to see how possible it is to write a (rnrs) series of libraries given WG2 10:56:10 ijp: you won't be able to implement `library' tho, i don't think 10:56:30 not portably, given that macros can't expand to `define-library' forms 10:56:42 (nor can they expand to `library') 10:58:29 Aye, that's a thorny issue 10:58:52 I like the thought of macros that expand to define-library forms, but I must admit, it's useful to be able to statically tell if something's a module and what it exports and depends on and so on 10:59:18 it's not very schemy tho 10:59:33 Yes... I'm torn about it! 10:59:52 no, I think that if you wanted to provide both it would need to be in a separate file and 'include'd into the relevant library form 10:59:53 Implementations could still support macros there, but portable code can't rely on it 11:01:36 alaricsp: yes, same as in r6. oh well. 11:01:56 GreatGoof [~GreatGoof@122.179.87.119] has joined #scheme 11:07:46 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 11:09:01 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:45 If enough implementations do, and people do awesome things with library-macros, then that might change 11:20:51 -!- GreatGoof [~GreatGoof@122.179.87.119] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:46:31 wolfpython [~walter@58.213.12.188] has joined #scheme 11:47:30 -!- wolfpython [~walter@58.213.12.188] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:48:00 wolfpython [~walter@58.213.12.188] has joined #scheme 11:56:22 amoe [~amoe@host-92-26-169-232.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 12:00:25 replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:00:26 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:00 -!- certaint|nowork [~david@matrix.d-coded.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:14 -!- X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:39 X-Scale [email@89.180.146.19] has joined #scheme 12:03:04 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest19006 12:10:23 -!- noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:17:16 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 12:22:55 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 12:28:25 noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 12:30:10 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:35:36 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:11 -!- Pritchard [~Pritchard@unaffiliated/pritchard] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:39:50 -!- wolfpython [~walter@58.213.12.188] has quit [Quit: ] 12:48:33 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 12:57:35 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:06:22 confab [~win7@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:07:04 -!- confab [~win7@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:07:21 confab [~win7@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:14:35 -!- djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:42 djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 13:34:05 wolfpython [~walter@58.213.12.188] has joined #scheme 13:35:00 -!- djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:01 djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 13:49:59 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-44-207.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:58:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-125-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 14:02:57 wingo [~wingo@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:07:48 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 14:08:31 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 14:08:51 Hey, if anyone's going to the Scheme Workshop in Portland you should video a talk or two for us peons. :) 14:09:00 yeah! 14:09:06 videos would be great 14:10:14 peterhil` [~peterhil@GZYYYMKDCCCLVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 14:11:21 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:14:15 -!- noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:24:01 noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 14:26:38 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 14:28:17 Pee on the peons! 14:36:20 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:37:03 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 14:41:43 leppie: hey :) how well does ironScheme work on gnu linux/mono? i must work on the clr, so this seems like the best way.. 14:43:58 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:29 ijp` [~user@host86-173-115-0.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 14:50:49 -!- ijp [~user@host109-157-168-1.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:52:28 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 14:53:44 -!- micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:55:24 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:56:46 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:59:15 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 15:04:13 -!- wolfpython [~walter@58.213.12.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:47 sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:09:45 ecraven: about 4 months back it was running fine, not sure if recent changes broke stuff. Everything that works on Windows should work on Mono except with some tail call issues on Mono 15:10:07 i just needed wine to actually install it 15:10:14 seems to run fine :) 15:10:22 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:31 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:10:38 ecraven: tested on Mono 2.8 I think. As for speed, it is a bit slower that on Windows, but not too much, worst case is about 4 times slower 15:10:43 . o O ( What's the difference between a tail call and a booty call? ) 15:10:48 alaricsp: Lolz. 15:11:13 *leppie* should really make a zip file :( 15:11:21 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:01 ecraven: you can try aot compile ironscheme.boot.dll to make start up faster, but last time Mono still exploded doing that 15:12:32 on Windows 'ngen' cuts load time down from around 2-3 seconds, to 100ms :) 15:15:56 ecraven: if you run (ironscheme-test) you should get '7 of 8884 tests failed'. 15:16:19 leppie: how do i quit the interpreter? 15:16:28 i'm running IronScheme.Console.exe 15:16:31 (exit) or EOF 15:16:39 eof doesn't work 15:16:44 well, ^D doesn't 15:17:00 what ever that control seq is on Linux 15:17:07 it used to :( 15:17:26 ah, you need to confirm it with return... strange behaviour 15:17:27 it's ^Z on Windows 15:17:32 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:17:44 ^Z is interrupt, works too 15:17:52 :) 15:18:06 Unhandled exception during evaluation: 15:18:07 &i/o-file-does-not-exist: "tests/r6rs/run.sps" 15:18:07 &who: open-file-input-port 15:18:14 that's what (ironscheme-test) does ;) 15:18:29 probably because i'm not running from the right directory 15:18:49 if you dont like the colors or want to run under Emacs, add '-nologo -emacs' to the commandline 15:19:00 ecraven: probably :) 15:19:45 works :) failed tests seem to be due to \n <-> \r 15:20:23 the comamndline is very FUBAR, but at least ironscheme filename works, as well as echo '1' | ironscheme 15:21:21 yeah that last failed test is a funny one, but it will require too much work to fix, and it is never used (well I have never ;p) 15:22:31 as long as you stay away from reified continuations, everything should be good 15:22:43 not sure if that us something you use 15:22:54 s/us/is/ 15:23:17 we'll see :) i need to investigate, we need a custom test-system for our compiler. 15:24:04 exceptions works fine though :) you also have access to the .NET exception system 15:25:01 you might want to look at the R6RS test suite then 15:25:42 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:26:41 ecraven: what kind of compiler is it? 15:28:14 custom dsl for optimisation problems 15:28:54 written on the clr? 15:29:22 no, c++ 15:29:34 where does the clr fit in? 15:29:44 what we need is lots of sample problems descriptions, that we run through the compiler. just because my colleagues like .NET 15:30:04 ahh :) 15:30:07 personally, I'd use something else :) 15:30:34 write it with IronScheme, then use Ikarus to run it :) 15:31:59 -!- elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:32:30 although i'm not sure if that will make too much of a difference, my compiler speed is similar to ikarus (on Windows anyways), but Ikarus emits much faster code 15:32:43 elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 15:32:55 wrt to macro expansion and code gen time 15:33:35 ecraven: if you find any bugs, or have suggestions, please ask 15:35:42 will do :) 15:35:53 the1 [~na@89.204.138.32] has joined #scheme 15:50:57 -!- markskilbeck is now known as kceblikskram 15:51:49 mithos28 [~eric@99-113-32-54.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:51:50 -!- kceblikskram is now known as markskilbeck 15:59:30 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:02:11 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:59 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 16:15:58 -!- mithos28 [~eric@99-113-32-54.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: mithos28] 16:17:58 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 16:29:44 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 16:31:51 mithos28_ 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