00:03:36 confab_ [~confab@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:05:49 -!- confab [~confab@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:22:25 -!- blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:56 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:25 chrissbx [~chrissbx@69-196-180-202.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:46:37 wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.34] has joined #scheme 00:47:09 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:21 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-60-50.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:54:06 -!- tupi [~david@177.30.103.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:58 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:10:11 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:59 offby1 [~user@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 01:11:45 -!- offby1 [~user@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:11:45 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 01:12:02 wisey [~Steven@host86-164-93-171.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 01:15:20 meanfish [~meanfish@76.73.221.195] has joined #scheme 01:17:06 -!- meanfish [~meanfish@76.73.221.195] has quit [Client Quit] 01:17:18 Turing's wry humor reminds me of Riastradh, for some reason; to the statement "The consequences of machines thinking would be too dreadful," he replies: "Consolation should be sought the transmigration of souls." 01:17:33 It's funny that Turing anticipated transhumanism. 01:17:45 guy was a proto-nerd. 01:17:57 :) 01:18:02 Ever seen "Cracking the Code"? I saw a local production and liked it (and I rarely like live theater) 01:18:17 hm, yeah that was praised on Quora. 01:18:19 iirc 01:19:12 offby1: Think so? Seems like nerds have been around for a while, though: in the 19th. c. they were chemists; before that, astronomers; before that, philosophers; before that, prophets; &c. 01:20:45 oh sure; I just meant he was a canonical example 01:22:49 offby1: Ah; maybe you're right. I might have said Holmes was canonical; he has the disadvantage of being fictional, though. 01:24:00 klutometis: where do the alchemists fit in? :) 01:28:23 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 01:42:05 qu1j0t3: Isn't alchemy just medieval chemistry? 01:43:04 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:55:47 klutometis: yeah, i would say so 01:56:14 klutometis: i suppose some people divide chemists into 'those whose ideas were eventually accepted' and alchemists :D 02:01:47 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 02:02:25 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:38 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:09:25 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:19:31 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:59 -!- karswell 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[email@89.180.170.253] has quit [Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 26yrs 14wks 3days 4hrs 4mins 34secs] 11:10:06 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 11:10:48 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 11:15:51 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-60-50.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:48:22 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:38 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:51:40 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:57 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:53:09 soveran [~soveran@78.249.50.4] has joined #scheme 11:54:45 Does anyone know Simply Scheme? 12:03:59 ijp [~user@host109-156-159-253.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 12:17:36 otakutomo: I don't know it, but its self-styling as a prequel to SICP is certainly promising IMO. 12:17:46 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 12:24:39 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:29:52 dlila [~dlila@72.53.74.234] has joined #scheme 12:35:28 dzhus [~sphinx@95-24-40-34.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 12:36:33 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:36:48 let's suppose there is an hierarchical structure, and a method (parent-of one) is defined, which returns the object of same type or nil 12:37:12 can foldr be used to map an element to its ancestor chain? 12:37:41 (the question may turn out to be stupid, as it's the second derivative of something I'm doing.) 12:38:44 (foldr (lambda (path) (cons (parent-of (car path)) path)) (list node)) 12:38:44 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 12:39:06 err... we need a stop condition somewhere... 12:40:53 kuribas [~user@d54C4339D.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 12:42:04 whitequark: seems it's not the right function to use for this. 12:42:09 whitequark: I'd say no, as an element isn't a list, so there is nothing to fold 12:43:25 Well, silly solution: (foldr (lambda (path index) (cons (parent-of (car path)) path)) (list node) (iota (depth node))) 12:44:08 *whitequark* is definitely too stupid to understand this 12:46:04 ah nope 12:46:12 depth is the depth of the node in the tree (ie. the length of the path between the node and the root). 12:46:20 iota returns a list (1 2 ... n) 12:46:20 yes, that works, but that's not quite what I wanted 12:46:32 foldr folds this list, ignoring the index, and building the path. 12:46:41 yeah, thanks. 12:46:47 I'm doing it wrong 12:47:41 It's silly, because the algorithm to compute depth consists in calling parent-of until the root is found and counting... 12:48:26 the "real" solution could be done by mutating the list while iterating of, but then foldr does not do any folding 12:48:35 so, it's just a silly idea 12:48:45 Just don't use foldr. 12:49:22 (let loop ((node node) (path (list node))) (if (null? (parent-of node)) path (loop (parent-of node) (cons (parent-of node) path)))) 12:53:19 wolfpython [~wolf@121.237.209.162] has joined #scheme 12:57:06 I think that this will work through y combinator: 12:57:07 (define (ancestors x) (Y (lambda (f) (lambda (x) (if x (cons x (f parent-of x)) '()))) x)) 12:57:53 *(parent-of x), of course. 13:05:07 hkBst:Thank you. 13:05:36 I'm college student in Japan.And I want to translate introduction to programming into Japanese. 13:05:43 Are there any you can recommend? 13:06:18 Which allow me to publish as a web page (on my personal non-profit web site). 13:10:30 -!- confab_ [~confab@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 13:12:06 otakutomo, SICP, HTDP? 13:14:08 amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 13:14:35 :weirdo Thank you.SICP already translated. 13:14:52 wahnfried [~wahnfried@CPE-58-172-57-77.nqrd1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 13:15:19 but I want to translate HTDP. 13:17:54 I'll check license. 13:20:15 Hey everyone, I'm struggling with what I think is a problem that should be solved by normal order evaluation, but I'm not quite sure how to implement it. 13:20:20 Essentially I have a function that returns a quoted expression that I want to use as the body of another function.. 13:20:23 so '(+ (+ x x) b) might be the output of the first function and I then want to be able to define the second function as (define (second x b) (eval (first .))) 13:21:19 do I need to come up with some delay/force thing 13:21:23 or is there a cleaner way to do this 13:23:04 Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 13:32:39 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 13:33:02 wahnfried: why don't you just return a function directly? 13:33:05 (define (first ...) ... (lambda (x b) (+ x x b))) 13:33:08 (define (second x b) (first x b)) 13:35:24 I could but it would be nice not to; the first function puts out the sexpr for the derivative of its argument 13:35:28 that should be (define (second x b) ((first .) x b)) 13:35:38 (deriv '(* (* x x) (+ b x)) 'x) 13:35:40 (+ (* (+ x x) (+ b x)) (* x x)) 13:35:52 so it would be nice to just use that as a body of something else 13:35:58 but yeah i could just eval within that 13:36:29 Seems like it should be possible since its just an expression but I guess it's more of a hassle than its worth? 13:38:20 also it's just an expression transformation so knowing what arguments to ask for is 13:38:26 not going to be niec 13:38:31 nice* 13:48:54 xharkonnen [~xharkonne@2.26.51.144] has joined #scheme 13:50:06 I don't buy that argument. With eval you still need to know what the arguments are, you're just punting it to the user. 13:51:21 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 13:56:39 so what do you think the deriv signature should look like? (deriv expr df func-vars) 13:57:02 (deriv '(* x b) 'x '((x 1) (b 2)) 13:57:06 or something? 13:57:54 yeah thats fair enough i guess 13:57:58 thanks 13:58:07 i guess it just seemed like it should be feasable and there was something I was overlooking 13:58:14 feasible* 13:59:16 X-Scale` [email@89.180.170.253] has joined #scheme 14:00:59 -!- qu1j0t3 [~qu1j0t3@vm4.telegraphics.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:01:25 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:02:39 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C4339D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:05:15 qu1j0t3 [~qu1j0t3@vm4.telegraphics.com.au] has joined #scheme 14:09:26 -!- X-Scale` [email@89.180.170.253] has quit [Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 26yrs 14wks 3days 1hr 4mins 40secs] 14:09:55 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:10:01 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 14:24:38 -!- wahnfried [~wahnfried@CPE-58-172-57-77.nqrd1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has left #scheme 14:30:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has joined #scheme 14:31:17 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:42 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 14:32:06 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest76393 14:33:06 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:22 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:33:44 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:57 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:35:41 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:40:37 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:44 -!- Guest76393 is now known as X-Scale 15:04:16 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@121.237.209.162] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:04:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-198.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:04:49 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:33 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20110928060149]] 15:06:34 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 15:06:56 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest55289 15:09:56 -!- Guest55289 is now known as X-Scale 15:13:36 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 15:14:52 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-198.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:23:15 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:42 klutometis: "rape" is not a funny colloquialism for "download things without permission", it's the name of a violent crime 15:37:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:39:26 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-52-242.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:40:21 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:41:03 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 15:55:05 chrissbx [~chrissbx@69-196-180-202.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 15:56:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 16:01:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox 16:01:37 robert[] [~robert@pool-173-66-142-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:01:41 "Your message was perhaps one of the strangest pieces of email I have ever received. Although it is flattering to have a ``fan club'', in fact, it is a very bad idea. Unlike most of human society, science and engineering are based on the idea that each of us is capable of evaluating evidence and thinking on our own. Each of us can do experiments, work out the reasoning, and determine the truth for ourselves. There is no room in 16:01:45 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-135-246.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has left #scheme 16:01:48 G J Sussman 16:02:23 samth: same for "pirate". 16:03:02 pjb: fortunately, piracy is a lot rarer these days than rape 16:05:35 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:05:37 -!- chrissbx [~chrissbx@69-196-180-202.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:07:26 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 16:14:20 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 16:20:30 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:30 HG` [~HG@tmo-103-7.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #scheme 16:27:08 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 16:28:04 -!- HG` [~HG@tmo-103-7.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:20 -!- githogori [~githogori@24.7.1.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:31:28 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 16:34:10 -!- lonstein [lonstein@173.11.229.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35:34 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #scheme 16:39:00 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:46:23 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 16:48:02 chrissbx [~chrissbx@69-196-180-202.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 16:48:32 arcfide [1000@dhcp-cs-244-96.cs.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 16:55:49 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 16:57:30 -!- soveran [~soveran@78.249.50.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:02 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:16:52 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #scheme 17:17:25 Hi, all. Can anybody recommend a way to deal with XML in scheme? 17:19:49 markskilbeck: what implementation do you use? 17:20:20 mit-scheme, mario-goulart. 17:20:47 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:20:56 damn rudybot! 17:22:41 Hmmm. I'll pass this one, markskilbeck. I really don't know much about mit-scheme. 17:23:21 markskilbeck: some keywords to search for are sxml and sxpath. 17:25:33 No problem, mario-goulart. Thanks anyway. 17:27:16 markskilbeck: mit-scheme includes a custom xml parser 17:27:20 try (apropos 'xml) 17:27:35 ecraven: I see that now. Should've RTFM. 17:27:42 My bad - sorry, fellas. 17:27:46 it's not described very well anyway :) 17:27:57 well this IS the mit-scheme documentation 17:28:08 and it's slow as hell, unfortunately :( 17:28:26 Not a problem. I'm just playing around. 17:28:40 also it won't work for html (i.e. non-well-formed xml). i've been playing around with ssax and htmlprag, they mostly seem to work, but i haven't put that code anywhere 17:29:52 I gave a brief look at SSAX, though when I tried to load it: "Premature reference to reserved name: #[syntactic-closure 17]" 17:32:34 yes, the normal implementation does not work in mit-scheme at all :) 17:32:45 Riastradh gave me some hints on how to fix these problems 17:33:27 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #scheme 17:34:36 The native xml stuff in mit-scheme looks like it will do. 17:37:09 it works well, though a bit slow :) 17:37:21 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:57:24 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-131-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 17:58:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 18:00:18 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 18:04:23 blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 18:05:01 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-191-238-172.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:43 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:58 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:25:50 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:26:20 samth: Good point; they're both violent, though, in some sense, aren't they? Also "rape" comes from the Latin "rapio," whose primary definition is: "To take away (property, etc.) by force, carry off as plunder; (used leg., to distinguish robbery with voilence from other theft)." 18:27:16 Only indirectly, and by analogy, did the narrow modern English meaning come to dominate; yea, even "rape" "rape". 18:27:28 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #scheme 18:29:38 rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 18:32:31 -!- chrissbx [~chrissbx@69-196-180-202.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:32:49 klutometis: http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/pedants.html 18:33:09 (IOW, the ancient original meaning is worthless.) 18:33:27 Does "grape" stand for "GNU rape"? 18:40:27 linearity [~linearity@213-187-183-38.dd.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 18:40:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:42:16 Does anybody know of a way in Chicken to define a foreign function in Scheme, but FROM the C program that's running the interpreter? 18:44:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 18:45:01 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:38 TinyScheme, for instance, has a C function called "scheme_define" that takes a function pointer and a name, and creates a Scheme procedure that calls the function pointer 18:47:15 linearity: Chicken 3 had an interface to GNU Lightning. Other than that, you can create closures with C_closure which you can pass around 18:50:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:50:33 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:59:02 sjamaan: I'm ignorant about closures. How can I use a closure to do what I described? 18:59:11 klutometis: no, downloading things from the internet is not violent 18:59:32 linearity: A closure is just a procedure bundled up with local state 19:02:34 snorble [~snorble@s83-191-238-172.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 19:02:44 linearity: But know you're mostly working against the system. In Chicken it's intended to make it easy to call C from Scheme, not so much the other way around 19:03:41 Yeah, it feels like that so far. 19:04:01 If you really want to know how it works you can compile a Scheme library that uses the FFI and see what kind of code is generated 19:04:30 But you could simply do that, load the library from Scheme (called from C) to publish the bindings that way 19:04:47 I don't see why you would want to do everything "manually" from C 19:05:39 I'm able to define the bindings in a separate Scheme file that I compile with the C function definitions into a shared object. 19:05:51 yes 19:06:30 That works fine, doesn't it? 19:06:39 Then I can CHICKEN_load that shared object. But it doesn't allow me to write a C program that determines at run time which bindings to create. 19:07:08 That isn't a huge problem. At least it isn't yet. 19:07:23 Why on earth would you need something like that? 19:07:52 If you're using modules, that won't work in any case 19:08:30 (modules are resolved at compilation time) 19:08:42 Ha ha, I'm not certain. But given that I'm thinking in terms of running Scheme scripts from C, I figured it might come up. 19:10:02 Anyway, I think you can do it with C_closure, if you're willing to dig into the details 19:11:12 You're going to need to do your own argument and type checking though! 19:11:27 HG` [~HG@tmo-111-92.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #scheme 19:12:05 Yeah, I saw functions in the doc that talked about saving stuff on the Scheme stack and I think that could put me in over my head. 19:12:46 yep, I guess you'll need to use C_save and C_restore 19:12:51 Thanks for telling me about that though. If something goes horribly wrong with dynamic loading I think I could figure that out. 19:13:07 np 19:13:43 Oh, right. I didn't know about that. 19:13:50 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 19:13:54 -!- HG` [~HG@tmo-111-92.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:50 If I am already loading Scheme source code at runtime (for loading scripts), is there any reason to be hesitant about dynamically loading that object code that does the binding? 19:14:51 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:15:13 I ask because every other part of my application doesn't require any dynamic linking. 19:15:37 HG` [~HG@tmo-111-92.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #scheme 19:15:46 I don't think there's any danger, but I'm not a linking guru 19:16:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:16:53 Good enough for me. Thanks. 19:19:46 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:14 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #scheme 19:21:01 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:25:49 -!- linearity [~linearity@213-187-183-38.dd.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:27:11 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:33:35 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-133-72.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:34:16 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-36-75.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:44:37 -!- rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:43 -!- HG` [~HG@tmo-111-92.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:28 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-131-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #scheme 19:55:57 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:02:33 *wingo* agrees with samth 20:05:53 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:09:20 wingo: Aye. 20:17:27 samth: Downloading from the internet is horrible. http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103759/not-a-big-deal 20:21:25 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-24-40-34.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:35 -!- arcfide [1000@dhcp-cs-244-96.cs.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 20:49:41 ijp` [~user@host81-159-30-190.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 20:51:59 -!- ijp [~user@host109-156-159-253.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:00:35 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:07:40 rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has joined #scheme 21:12:14 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:18:41 jrapdx [~jra@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:38 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-198.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:19:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-198.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:23:47 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:25:26 kuribas [~user@d54C4339D.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:26:10 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 21:26:25 soveran [~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #scheme 21:27:15 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:11 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C4339D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:41:06 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:20 eli: As a student of the classics, I have an etymologically sensitive soul; I contend that modern mutations of ancient words are illegitimate. 21:42:04 A sign of degenerescence. 21:42:04 samth: Breaking and entering into MIT like a fucking hero is, though; Aaron Swartz is Robin Hood. 21:44:09 eli: As a functional programmer, it seems like you should appreciate the non-destructive use of language. 21:44:42 It seems like a lot of modern usage amount to: (set! slightly-impoverished-meaning-of-) 21:48:07 rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 21:50:46 klutometis: i don't have a problem with Swartz at all -- what he did was useful civil disobedience, whereas rape is an unalloyed bad thing 21:54:29 samth: True and true; I'm using "violence" somewhat loosely. It turns out, though, that violence and civil disobedience might be orthogonal: . 21:55:53 The violence I have in mind is probably closer to the German notion of "Gewalt": which includes physical, but also abstract, forms of violence. 21:56:24 klutometis: Gewalt is more normally translated as "force", I think 21:56:33 or maybe "compulsion"\ 21:58:49 but regardless of these issues, the point i was trying to make is that "rape" is not an appropriate colloquialism for things like downloading files, and *especially* not when you approve of the action 21:59:09 -!- rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-150-238.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:00:01 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 22:01:46 hoi 22:05:07 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:23 ioh 22:07:12 samth: Point taken; I was looking for some sort of pirate analogy. In retrospect, maybe "pillage" would have been more appropriate. 22:07:32 Pillage, *then* burn. 22:08:11 jcowan: Heh; so you're down with our "Occupy JSTOR" movement? 22:08:14 where's the excitement in that? 22:10:11 Although, if get gouged again for $30/article historical artifacts; maybe I will advocate for a scorched-earth policy: which, I guess, is the inverse of pillage-burn. 22:10:57 I just use my daughter's uni account, actually, so I have only pillaged the files I'm interested in. I store them in a directory that gets backed up to Amazon S3, though. 22:11:12 Occasionally I publish one in http://www.ccil.org/~cowan/temp 22:11:14 I am a retail pirate. 22:15:30 jcowan: Thanks for the link; it's interesting, though, that even major universities have limited archives. Want Friedberg's seminal article on genetic algorithms from 1958? $30, please. 22:15:59 They have a lot of the early Turing stuff, though; maybe at this point I'm doing more archaeology than computer science, though. 22:16:25 Sometimes what is not in one archive is in another. 22:16:33 It's important to remember that JSTOR aren't the bad guys here. 22:16:51 didn't JSTOR just open up all their old stuff 22:17:48 "journal content on JSTOR published prior to 1923 in the United States and prior to 1870 elsewhere, freely available" 22:18:00 Oh, *that* old. Public domain, iow. 22:18:24 klutometis: Do you have a more complete reference for Friedberg? 22:18:29 Or at least the journal title and date? 22:18:40 I may be able to find it somewhere else. 22:20:21 Journal publishers (including part of $EMPLOYER) are the eeevil folks. 22:22:17 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:24:42 jcowan: Friedberg, R. M. (1958). A learning machine: Part I. IBM Journal of Research and Development, 2 (1), 2--13. 22:25:11 Friedberg R. M., Dunham R., and North T. (1959) A learning machine: Part II. IBM Journal of Research and Development, 3 (3), 282--287. 22:25:52 If you could take a look, many thanks; it's not JSTOR, by the way, but IEEE, I believe. 22:26:15 *jcowan* nods. 22:27:23 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:29:10 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-108-179.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 22:34:58 klutometis: No luck for that journal in any database I have access to, alas. 22:35:28 -!- soveran [~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:36 "HURD is a mutually recursive acronym, standing for HIRD of Unix-replacing daemons, where HIRD stands for HURD of interfaces representing depth. As both hurd and hird are just alternate spellings for the English word herd, the full name GNU Hurd is also a play on the words herd of gnus, reflecting how the kernel works" 22:35:52 how much does one get pay for this acronymology? 22:36:13 Dumb jokes are still fre. 22:36:14 free, even 22:36:45 klutometis: Feel free to ask me for anything else by email to cowan@ccil.org, and I'll do what I can. 22:37:03 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:47:27 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:51 jcowan: Thanks; I'll do that. I got the same outcome, by the way. 22:50:12 robert[]: About fifteen pounds sterling, it turns out; about the same cost as naming a theorem after yourself, by the way: . 22:51:52 Roberts theorem: 65468468476+4151512521=69619980997. 22:52:02 this is a completely new result in arithmetic 22:54:29 Probably. 22:54:33 I wonder how much money these guys made 22:55:00 robert[]: TheoryMine has the advantage of being non-trivial and interesting, apparently; for some value of "interesting". 22:55:05 Probably not as much as those guys who will (unofficially) name a star after you. 22:55:15 I disagree that these are non-trivial 22:55:30 well 22:55:41 I'm pretty sure they're all proved by rippling 22:56:12 what about that guy selling the moon 22:56:29 $9 million 22:58:01 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 23:03:27 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 23:09:36 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 23:09:41 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-108-179.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:10:34 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:10:59 -!- rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:35 amoe [~amoe@host-92-26-171-61.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:20 robert[]: Sorry, "not trivially true" is the claim they make: . Even so, it's about as satisfying as machine-on-machine chess. 23:21:35 :D 23:27:43 klutometis: Not at all. As someone who is sharing his life with an NLPist, I can definitely say that there is absolutely no such relationship between PLs (functional or not) and NLs. 23:28:12 Furthermore, by far, the biggest breakthrough in NLP was when people faced the fact and admitted that NLs are things that keep evolving -- trying to stick to some well-known dictionary that is set in stone is a sure way to get projects that are doomed to fail. 23:28:37 Google is an obvious example, but there are tons of similar things. 23:29:03 (Actually, Google has a number of obvious examples -- like google news, and their translations.) 23:47:58 -!- robert[] [~robert@pool-173-66-142-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:58:04 chrissbx [~chrissbx@69-196-180-202.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:58:28 eli: That's just the classic prescriptive vs. descriptive debate; though they both have their place, I have a slight prescriptive bias. 23:58:29 -!- PreciousMetals [~Heart@unaffiliated/colours] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:59:15 klutometis: sadly for prescriptivism, descriptivism works 23:59:50 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme