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[~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-181.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:31:11 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:16 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:40:38 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-18.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:50:56 -!- frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:53:42 bokr [~eduska@109.110.60.126] has joined #scheme 00:53:50 frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:55:07 -!- bokr [~eduska@109.110.60.126] has quit [Client Quit] 00:56:23 _danb_ [~user@124-149-162-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 01:03:44 qu1j0t3 : 01:03:45 http://tinyurl.com/5et369 01:04:44 -!- frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:31 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:08:48 frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:11:05 ski: yeah 01:11:16 funy, i was looking for that earlier today 01:12:34 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-59-17.gmavt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:13:06 -!- askhader is now known as qxi_ 01:13:48 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:44 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:22:36 -!- tupi [~david@177.30.171.140] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:22:51 grettke [~grettke@cpe-65-30-30-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:35:18 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:41:47 -!- wisey [~Steven@host86-164-93-171.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:10 wisey [~Steven@host86-164-93-171.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 01:45:33 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-241-136.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:46:27 rff 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[Quit: no number tonight, folks] 03:59:38 wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.19] has joined #scheme 04:08:22 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:12:28 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-157-187.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:13:16 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-52-38.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 04:18:35 -!- frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:21:25 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 04:25:38 -!- grettke [~grettke@cpe-65-30-30-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:31:02 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:35:20 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:35:27 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:48:18 klutometis: why does this sound so familiar: http://equalsdrummond.name/2011/10/02/the-height-of-insidiousness/ 04:50:05 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:52:40 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has left #scheme 05:01:35 offby1: That's the reason I don't turn off comments altogether - the value of the real comments outweighs the hassle of the spam. 05:01:48 that's a good thought. 05:02:01 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 05:06:02 jonrafkind [~jon@12.233.52.10] has joined #scheme 05:10:37 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:09 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:13:33 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 05:28:54 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:28:54 -!- moll [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:29:22 moll [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 05:53:19 stchang 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[~uvtc@ool-45732836.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 12:52:12 Hi, #scheme. 12:52:43 -!- drdo`` is now known as drdo 12:52:52 My understanding is that when you define a procedure, it creates a closure -- it freeze-dries what it knows about the outer scope at that time. 12:53:12 But if that's the case, 12:53:26 Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 12:53:42 then why does this happen? : http://paste.pocoo.org/show/486474/ 12:54:21 your understanding of how capturing variables are wrong :) 12:54:24 Shouldn't the `foo` procedure always think of the `a` variable as 10? 12:54:48 leppie: Ah, excellent. :) Could you help me understand? 12:54:53 the variable reference only points to the original location 12:55:11 think of it as a pointer, that can be changed elsewhere 12:55:48 Oh, ok. Interesting. 12:56:20 rudybot: (define (counter) (let ((i 0)) (lambda () (set! i (+ i 1)) i))) 12:56:21 leppie: your sandbox is ready 12:56:21 leppie: Done. 12:56:31 rudybot: (counter) 12:56:31 leppie: ; Value: # 12:56:42 argg 12:56:48 What is rudybot? 12:56:50 elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 12:56:52 rudybot: (define c (counter)) 12:56:53 leppie: Done. 12:57:04 rudybot: (c) 12:57:05 leppie: ; Value: 1 12:57:07 rudybot: (c) 12:57:07 leppie: ; Value: 2 12:57:09 rudybot: (c) 12:57:09 leppie: ; Value: 3 12:57:24 uvtc: your new best friend! 12:59:12 How long does one of its sandboxes stay around? 13:00:05 rudybot: (c) 13:00:06 leppie: ; Value: 4 13:00:15 more than 3 minutes :) 13:00:55 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:01:12 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:01:51 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:01 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:17 leppie: thanks. Also though, about capturing variables, what if I rebind `a` to somewhere else? As in, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/486477/ 13:02:36 That actually fails for me. 13:02:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:03:00 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:03:00 With: "Error: (+) bad argument type: (aa bb cc)" 13:03:18 (This is while using Chicken Scheme.) 13:03:30 REPL semantics can differ wildly 13:04:39 Didn't run it in the REPL -- ran it as a script. Will try compiling it... 13:05:03 Scheme should not allow that, but I guess some do 13:05:20 So, should what I put in the paste work? 13:05:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:05:55 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:06:13 (Got the same error when compiling it.) 13:06:14 uvtc: not sure about R5RS, but that is not a legal program in R6RS 13:06:36 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:07:13 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 13:07:17 leppie: Earlier you said that, inside the procedure, the `(+ a 1)` was binding to the storage location of `a`. 13:07:31 leppie: Isn't the storage location still there, 13:07:40 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 13:07:55 even though I redefine where `a` refers to? 13:07:59 define introduces a new location, but in R6RS you cannot define duplicate variables 13:08:27 How about if I use `set!` instead of `define`? I tried that too and got an error. Lessee... 13:08:47 using SET! describes your intent better me thinks :) 13:08:59 I get the same error. 13:09:04 well you will get an error, you changed the value of 'a' 13:09:07 (with set!, I mean) 13:09:49 But shouldn't the definition of my `foo` procedure create a closure, where it saves what it knows about the outer scope? Even if I later change it? 13:09:56 what do you want the second call to foo to do? 13:10:25 return 11 too? 13:10:44 I'm only using `foo` to try and figure out how closures/scope works in Scheme. I don't really want it to do anything (?). 13:10:53 Yes, 13:11:03 I'm expecting it to always return 11, no matter what I do to `a`. 13:11:19 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/486485/ 13:11:56 perhaps that explains it better :) 13:12:37 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.171.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:14:12 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:14:50 leppie: Thanks. I see that, in the local scope created by the `let`, the `a` in there shadows the outer one, and `foo` works as I'd expect. 13:15:09 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 13:16:44 leppie: though, wrt the example I gave with changing (using `set!`) top-level `a`, I think there's still something I'm not getting. 13:17:31 I'd read that all Scheme procedures are closures, and that when you define them, 13:17:57 they "capture" the environment -- everything that's outside their scope, 13:18:08 not all procedures are closures, but yes, it captures the environment 13:18:41 think of it as a C style struct with fields, that can be mutated 13:18:49 the environemnt 13:18:52 Right. 13:19:31 but it is the actual variable, even non closure access will access the varaible via the environemnt 13:21:15 that's why the poor man's classes are closures :) 13:22:05 Yes, I've heard that expression. 13:22:08 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #scheme 13:22:10 I don't understand the sentence you wrote previous to it. 13:23:09 leppie: I think you're just saying that all access to variables is done through the environment. Correct? 13:23:34 yes, if the varaible has been captured (somewhere) 13:23:39 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:23:57 but essentially yes 13:24:12 some schemes may allocate environments for all procedures 13:27:30 Regardless of how Scheme stores the values of variables, I don't see how that's connected with why http://paste.pocoo.org/show/486488/ fails. 13:28:08 it fails becos you are doing: (+ '(aa bb cc) 1) 13:28:25 X-Scale [email@89-180-158-178.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 13:28:50 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest81398 13:30:00 Ok, thanks leppie. 13:30:05 -!- uvtc [~uvtc@ool-45732836.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 13:31:20 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:45:44 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 13:51:23 -!- treegr [~treegr@27-33-30-33.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: treegr] 13:53:19 imphasing [~Alex@97-81-115-30.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined #scheme 13:53:22 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-uzszyimaqcppbswz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:42 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-eokbikcigmkvsqeg] has joined #scheme 13:54:05 So I'm debugging my lisp-style macros in my interpreter, and I'm not really sure whether my macros are jacked up or my interpreter is.. if someone could look over this macro and verify that it's not totally broken, I'd appreciate it: http://pastebin.com/CUesReq4 13:54:23 Unhygenic macros, so it's really just a lambda that gets arguments to rewrite with 13:54:28 using quasiquoting templates 13:57:25 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:32 Evaluating that macro with the arguments (or-ar #t #f) in my interpreter gives me #f, which is all kinds of wrong so I'm trying to see if it's my interpreter :) 13:58:02 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-eokbikcigmkvsqeg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:22 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-btbtmqqfnzryznhy] has joined #scheme 13:59:38 You sure you are expanding it enough times? 14:01:47 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 14:01:50 -!- Emry [~burlingk@softbank221067045171.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:01:51 imphasing: (if ,next-arg) <-- bad syntax 14:02:06 Oh snap 14:02:36 now it works with syntax fix :) 14:02:38 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:02:43 leppie: Yes it does :) 14:02:44 well on my scheme anyways 14:02:48 Thank so much man, you're the man :D 14:02:50 It works on mine too :D 14:02:59 Guess it wasn't my interpreter after all, just mail failure with scheme :) 14:03:09 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:03:13 AVRS [~Aleksej@wikimedia/AVRS] has joined #scheme 14:03:53 well if your interpreter allowed (IF something) , it IS broken :) 14:04:25 My interpreter's style is "hey, if the parentheses match I'll try it out brooo" 14:04:33 lol 14:04:37 probably a little improper :P 14:05:02 Yay now my macro test passes :) 14:05:13 but if it was correct, it would have failed with something like: bad syntax (if g$17$1f326d) 14:05:26 ampersandbox [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-227-202.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 14:05:32 It's not exactly standards compliant, more like a learning project 14:05:39 I haven't really implemented proper error handling yet 14:05:39 and then you would not have so much trouble to fix 14:05:41 or any syntax checking 14:05:47 Yeah, that would have helped 14:05:53 it's good to add, especial syntax 14:05:58 I'm not really sure how to do syntax checking to be honest 14:06:23 just check that you have the arguments you need 14:06:40 the number and possibly shape, like with define or lambda 14:07:19 your define-macro should handle the rest 14:07:19 Hm, yeah... 14:07:33 That would definitely cut down on my "wtf is wrong with this thing" moments 14:08:22 it's not too much effort, but it will save you lots of time in the future 14:09:17 (let ((meta '("http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme" "http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/scheme/")) (scheme '("http://schemers10:01:52 #scheme: < leppie> imphasing: (if ,next-arg) <-- bad syntax 14:09:24 whoa pastefart :( 14:14:09 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:15:38 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-130-151.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:15:50 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #scheme 14:26:56 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:29:19 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:36:42 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-btbtmqqfnzryznhy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:01 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-esiprbvxeeotmtbd] has joined #scheme 14:44:22 uvtc [~uvtc@ool-45732836.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:16 soveran [~soveran@juv34-7-78-249-50-4.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 14:47:13 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 14:49:19 leppie: Thanks for the help earlier. Makes sense now. 14:50:10 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 14:50:25 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:06 leppie++ 14:54:42 -!- Mandar [~armand@lab75-5-88-166-112-102.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 14:55:48 -!- Guest81398 [email@89-180-158-178.net.novis.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:06 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 14:56:24 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 14:56:26 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:38 -!- ahinki_ is now known as ahinki 15:02:52 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 15:03:05 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:07 -!- ahinki_ is now known as ahinki 15:07:40 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Client Quit] 15:24:09 -!- realitygrill 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joined #scheme 20:53:30 ysph [~user@131.204.27.195] has joined #scheme 20:53:36 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:58:32 -!- imphasing is now known as imphasing|home 21:01:19 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:05:10 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-18.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:06:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:05 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:08:06 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:08:06 -!- cky [~cky@fsf/member/cky] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:08:06 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:08:45 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 21:08:46 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 21:08:54 ...wow. 21:09:22 I was reading the Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs today, and I finally started getting scheme. 21:09:42 I kept reading and reading, devouring the pages. It was...incredible. A real mind blowing experience. 21:09:43 :) 21:09:45 djanatyn++ 21:09:46 sicp is not about scheme, it's about programming. What you're getting, it's programming. 21:09:55 Yes, it's mind blowing. 21:10:05 It's like...car, and cdr, and lambdas, and how functions are just expressions, and maps and all this stuff 21:10:14 It was great. 21:10:34 The way that lisp keeps state in functions, instead of modifying global variables, is awesome. 21:10:38 and tail recursion is awesome 21:10:49 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:51 don't tell Guido 21:10:59 Heh. 21:11:10 I've used haskell before, and had a similar sense of "enlightenment", but nothing close to this. 21:11:27 I mean, pretty much the only thing I did in scheme before was adding numbers and maybe a factorial function :) 21:11:31 are you doing the exercises? 21:11:37 qu1j0t3: some of them 21:11:38 don't skip 'em 21:11:41 cool 21:11:45 I was kinda just blowing through because I was interested 21:11:51 I plan on going back and re-reading most of the things I saw 21:11:55 the exercises hold a lot of the value 21:12:02 (imho) 21:12:11 i'm barely through Ch1 though 21:12:15 so don't listen to me. :) 21:12:15 qu1j0t3: yeah, the ones that I tried were great, and made me think about things in different ways 21:12:26 I mean, I never really took lisp seriously before. 21:12:46 It was kind of a toy language to me - it wasn't used very often in the things I was used to, and it didn't have as huge a community as python or ruby or perl 21:12:48 there's a blog for that! 21:12:54 and functional programming was hard :) 21:13:09 and, admittedly, the parentheses made me dizzy -_- 21:13:14 heh 21:13:26 but man! 21:13:32 lisp isn't just about building applications 21:13:42 it's not just about reducing bugs or enhancing productivity 21:13:44 it's about *programming* 21:13:47 cky [~cky@car.spillville.com] has joined #scheme 21:13:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-136.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:13:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-199.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:15:13 joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has joined #scheme 21:15:27 reading SICP is like watching The Matrix :) 21:15:51 -!- joast is now known as Guest23512 21:15:57 taking the red pill. 21:16:01 djanatyn: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=198 , http://www.loper-os.org/?p=295 21:16:27 *qu1j0t3* eyes the slightly phosphorescent green pill with some trepidation 21:21:19 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC05E9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG``] 21:21:51 -!- Guest23512 [~rick@76.178.187.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:22:49 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-249-112.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:30:35 zmv [~daniel@177.60.78.171] has joined #scheme 21:31:58 -!- zmv [~daniel@177.60.78.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:20 Man, now I feel kinda bad. 21:36:39 Everyone at my school is learning Java. I've always disliked Java, as I've messed with stuff like perl or python. 21:36:45 But now...lisp o_o 21:36:48 :) 21:36:56 welcome to the agony of this plane of existence 21:37:00 I wish I could teach everybody there lisp. 21:37:01 or something 21:37:05 But I don't think they would get it -_- 21:37:21 djanatyn: they're not supposed to. they're supposed to get mortgages and code Java till they die 21:37:36 oh wait, I code PHP at $DAYJOB.. never mind. 21:37:40 Well, Java was supposed to bring C++ programmers halfway toward lisp. Perhaps you'll be successful bringing them to lisp!? 21:37:57 how hard could it be? 21:38:12 Well...they don't really understand java very much ^_^ 21:38:23 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:38:43 I'm a junior in high school, and I doubt most of the people in my class would be interested. :\ 21:38:48 that.. probably gives you a head start, if anything :) 21:39:10 djanatyn: pity 21:39:37 At the same time, I'm really glad my haskell friend bugged me to start reading SICP. 21:39:46 :):) 21:39:55 It's really great. And it's even teaching me stuff besides programming, like some math things I haven't learned yet. 21:40:13 Like, carmichael numbers are pretty cool. And there's lots of algorithms in there that I'm not familiar with, and some I haven't even heard of. 21:40:27 And as for the efficiency of certain algorithms, it's really good at explaining. 21:40:32 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 21:41:59 There are certainly advantages to also learning Java. 21:41:59 yes. 21:42:12 yes @ time/space complexity in sicp 21:43:21 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47:33 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 21:52:56 joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has joined #scheme 21:56:47 bpalmer: yes... but perhaps not as a first language for high schoolers 21:57:04 i'll use java for money any time. i'm not racist! 22:01:02 jonrafkind [~jon@12.233.52.10] has joined #scheme 22:03:21 Yeah. It's really kind of weird. 22:03:34 I'm pretty sure that the only reason we're learning it is because it's the language the teacher is most familiar with. 22:04:40 I mean, it's better than nothing. 22:06:54 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 22:07:14 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:08:13 -!- grglr [~grglr@2620:0:1cfe:61:129a:ddff:fe54:2c1e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:38 -!- ysph [~user@131.204.27.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:09:01 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-199.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 22:10:54 djanatyn: it's a bit arbitrary. OTOH it is still very commercial (one could editorialise about that...) 22:11:13 i wouldn't call it a good teaching language especially at that level 22:11:24 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #scheme 22:11:34 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:14:38 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-65-201.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:27 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:17:27 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:30 Yeah. 22:18:42 dammit, I always seem to join missing the most important part of the conversation :| 22:18:49 hey, zmv! :D 22:20:02 -!- Intensity [~Intensity@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:20:03 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@12.233.52.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:24 jonrafkind [~jon@12.233.52.10] has joined #scheme 22:20:32 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 22:21:09 hey djanatyn 22:21:49 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-199.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:24:57 djanatyn: i'll just leave this here... (co-worker just mailed it) http://zackarymorris.tumblr.com/post/10973087527/the-state-of-the-art-is-terrible 22:24:58 http://tinyurl.com/42lmcwa 22:34:40 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:42:26 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c114.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: Out of quarters] 22:44:18 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:44:30 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-199.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:23 soveran [~soveran@juv34-7-78-249-50-4.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 22:48:08 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:23 -!- zmv is now known as oftc 22:49:35 -!- oftc is now known as zmv 22:53:02 Intensity [9Rwje6IlDE@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #scheme 22:56:05 -!- Intensity [9Rwje6IlDE@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Quit: Quit] 23:04:20 -!- vk0 [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:13:07 vk0 [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has joined #scheme 23:15:01 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:20:52 ampersandbox_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-227-202.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:21:02 Intensity [APBiW8ojOM@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #scheme 23:22:30 -!- ampersandbox [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-227-202.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:22:34 -!- ampersandbox_ is now known as ampersandbox 23:23:54 kanru_ [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #scheme 23:24:09 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 23:24:35 -!- pjb is now known as Guest26586 23:24:45 -!- Guest26586 is now known as pjb- 23:26:46 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:26:53 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:27:45 wisey [~Steven@host86-164-93-171.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 23:28:13 ehiggs [~ehiggs@87-194-210-227.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:29:25 -!- asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:58 asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has joined #scheme 23:31:23 -!- kanru_ [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:33:15 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-199.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:36:54 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #scheme 23:40:10 -!- soveran [~soveran@juv34-7-78-249-50-4.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:38 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:45:49 -!- asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:52:46 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:53:23 asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has joined #scheme 23:57:03 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 23:57:35 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]