00:04:19 I know a girl who has never programmed (that is, no more than a "hello world" in C). Out of curiosity, I've briefly explained the concept of lists and prefix notation to her, and also a few special forms, then asked to print numbers from 1 to 10. Five minutes passed, and she has managed to write a tail-recursive algorithm. Hmm. 00:19:26 rins [~rins@c-76-24-27-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:20:09 whitequark: Maybe that's because recursion is embedded in cell division; and is more "natural" (for some value of "natural") than explicitly stack-based manipulations. 00:33:14 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:35:44 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:43:08 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:04 -!- gisli [~Gisli@unaffiliated/gisli] has left #scheme 00:57:01 phax [~phax@5e0814d2.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 00:57:01 -!- phax [~phax@5e0814d2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:57:01 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 00:59:13 klutometis: Somehow, you've managed to make me feel myself rather stupid after reading your message. 00:59:32 Honestly, I don't quite get what you've tried to say. 01:01:20 (Stack manipulations? For any person who ever learned C, the 'for' loop is the way to go. And how the hell is cell division related to that?) 01:02:19 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 01:02:23 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:07:25 (define (divide) (if (resources-exhausted?) '() (cons (copy self) (divide)))) 01:07:48 -!- dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:07:53 facetious... why not 01:10:59 amoe: The `self' should be passed explicitly. The number of divisions is actually very important for the (vertebrate) cell: starting from the ovum, a cell has a limited number of divisions, capped by shrinking telomere length. You have to take that into account. 01:11:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:12:54 Not to mention that most of the (vertebrate, again) cells cannot undergo division. If we'd take invertebrates into account, we should have separate branches for gametogonia and schizogonia, which involve more than binary divisions. 01:23:29 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 01:24:34 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:38 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:30:00 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 01:35:31 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:35:47 jcowan [~John@p-74-209-22-28.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #scheme 01:46:10 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 01:50:02 peterhil [~peterhil@ZYYDCXXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 01:51:10 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:21 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:55:52 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58:05 sir_lewk [~john@ec2-184-72-70-65.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 01:59:08 -!- dfjklaaf [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:34:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-130-197.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:37:24 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:27 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:42:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:44:08 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:44:44 -!- pranq [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:45:49 pranq [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 02:50:00 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:01:42 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.67] has joined #scheme 03:11:40 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1889] 03:20:38 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 03:22:50 -!- jcowan [~John@p-74-209-22-28.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:26:29 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:26:34 -!- rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:13 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 03:28:07 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #scheme 03:32:54 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:44:07 woonie [~woonie@nusnet-199-177.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #scheme 03:53:35 -!- jimmyrcom [~fold@adsl-75-53-40-95.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:54:17 hba [~hba@187.171.213.190] has joined #scheme 03:56:13 -!- rins [~rins@c-76-24-27-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:59:49 kniu [~kniu@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:00:43 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:59 kniu [~kniu@pool-96-236-148-210.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:08:31 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:14:00 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:15:07 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:15:09 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:20:25 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:21:23 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:23:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 04:25:21 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 04:27:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:28:00 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:28:10 xwl [~user@194.100.69.130] has joined #scheme 04:28:42 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:33:33 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:35:14 -!- xwl [~user@194.100.69.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:10 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:39:27 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:44:51 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:45:35 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:49:18 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-241-136.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:13 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56:56 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:02:21 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:06:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:08:03 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:13:21 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:14:10 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:18:57 whitequark: I was thinking of unicellular life; and trying to come up with a mechanism by which the intuition for recursion was embedded into very ancient DNA. 05:19:01 Far-fetched, I know. 05:19:16 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 05:19:55 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:20:34 I also had in mind that explicitly stack-based algorithms for e.g. tree-search seem to be less "natural" than their recursive counterparts. 05:20:50 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:21:07 You're right, though: a for-loop with an incrementing index may be a poor analogy to explicitly stack-based algorithms; or is it? 05:26:00 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:31:41 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:31:58 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:35:23 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:37:36 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:38:08 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:43:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:45:04 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:48:10 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 05:53:10 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:56:01 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:56:37 xwl [~user@194.100.69.130] has joined #scheme 06:01:06 -!- emma is now known as em 06:01:59 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:02:26 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:10:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:22:20 -!- DrAfk [~duck@user-24-236-92-111.knology.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:23:45 DrAfk [~duck@user-24-236-92-111.knology.net] has joined #scheme 06:26:00 -!- xwl [~user@194.100.69.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:33:45 -!- DrAfk [~duck@user-24-236-92-111.knology.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:35:36 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfdae9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:35:46 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbec483.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 07:04:49 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:51 djcb [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 07:21:03 -!- djcb [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:57 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:33:48 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-199-177.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:37:14 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-83-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:01 klutometis: Ah yes, it makes sense this way. I'd say that multicellular lifeforms can be better described by recursion: for the latter, cells are specialized (i.e. parameters are passed) and it is not unwieldy infinite (i.e. has a terminating condition). 07:38:50 klutometis: Also, in your example, after k passes there will only be k cells (if resources are plentiful), and in real life, there'll be 2^k in similar conditions. 07:38:59 I.e. it is inherently parallel. 07:41:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-130-197.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:43:26 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-83-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:44:06 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:45:48 HG` [~HG@p5DC04E4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:47:09 -!- hba [~hba@187.171.213.190] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:15:50 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #scheme 08:19:05 denisw [~denisw@dslb-188-102-108-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 08:34:32 -!- gravicappa 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#scheme 14:58:56 rff [~rff@ip72-207-241-136.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 15:08:39 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:22:55 Good morning, schemers. 15:25:32 aroo 15:32:02 wingo [~wingo@173-8-133-100-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:36:19 wingo! 15:36:34 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:37:04 wingo, I've been meaning to congratulate you on Guile for quite a while now, but one of us kept pulling a Polkaroo. 15:37:16 So: congratulations! 15:37:25 offby1, doing anything particularly pleasant this morning? 15:38:37 just waking up 15:38:40 drinking tea 15:38:44 rubbing eyes 15:38:45 etc 15:40:26 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:40:56 Hmm, I think I may emulate your tea idea. 15:53:13 same 15:54:15 I will just simulate it, drinking a glass of water. 15:55:02 gnomon: thanks! :) 15:55:06 *offby1* admires his multiplier effect 16:00:45 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-!- soveran [~soveran@dan75-2-87-91-33-52.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:24 wingo, also, your discussion on L:tU was one of the most civil and productive I've seen in a good long while. Way to set a terrific example. 17:51:42 It reminded me a bit of the way Stevan Apter explained kdb to a non-believer on Kuro5hin a few years back. 17:54:17 -!- wingo [~wingo@173-8-133-100-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:59:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-130-197.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:59:52 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-66.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:00:50 wingo [~wingo@173-8-133-100-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:09:49 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-7-94.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 18:17:22 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:17:48 samth [~samth@dhc023750.med.harvard.edu] has joined #scheme 18:19:44 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 18:24:04 DrAfk [~duck@user-24-236-92-111.knology.net] has joined #scheme 18:31:14 -!- samth [~samth@dhc023750.med.harvard.edu] 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[~luser@ec2-204-236-167-175.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:18:01 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-114-3.w92-150.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:38 gnomon: links or they didn't happen 19:30:07 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4345 and http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2002/11/14/22741/791/105#105 , respectively 19:30:12 Jebus, 2002. 19:30:26 found the ltu link meself, but thanks anyway (and I agree with what you said) 19:30:46 amazing that wingo's opposite also responded civilly. 19:30:59 we should commemorate that exchange with a national holiday 19:31:13 "National FOAD Day"? 19:34:28 kuro5hin is so hard to read, and I am so lazy, that I didn't even bother trying to find Stevan Aptar's response to that post 19:34:50 He's the fellow with the username 'sa'. 19:35:27 It's a good exchange, both for the tech that it covers and the manner in which Stevan deals with a hostile opponent. 19:36:09 I guessed that Stevan Aptar was "sa" (I'm lazy but not stupid) but the complex layout of all the responses sapped my will to click. 19:36:31 I'd have followed a single link clearly labeled "Next" though. 19:36:42 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 19:36:58 I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that 'sa' was somehow mysterious; I thought you were stating an opinion about k5 which prevented you from reading through at all. 19:37:26 I was indeed stating an opinion about the layout of that particular page. 19:37:33 (And probably all pages on kuro5hin). 19:37:40 The depths of my laziness often shock grown men 19:37:49 And cats? 19:37:50 s/depths/depth/ ; s/shock/shocks/ 19:38:00 naw, the cats are cool with it 19:39:36 -!- blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: blackened] 19:43:05 blackened [~blackened@ip-89-102-29-120.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 19:49:11 rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-167-175.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 20:00:00 -!- rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:16:56 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:23 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:24:56 taylanuc [~taylanub@p4FD93CCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:27:30 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD93E01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:30:11 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:31:56 I don't think it's possible to be lazy enough to shock a cat. 20:33:21 -!- taylanuc is now known as taylanub 20:50:08 tupi [~david@201.19.192.236] has joined #scheme 20:51:49 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 20:57:24 rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 20:58:36 *offby1* inaugurates the First Annual Human-versus-Cat 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smtlaissezfaire] 23:19:07 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 23:23:45 -!- ve [~a@193.62.81.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:26:56 rvn_ [~rvn@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 23:31:40 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:23 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 23:33:35 shofetim [~user@lat-4dot-trans-gw.littleappletech.com] has joined #scheme 23:37:32 hba [~hba@187.171.213.190] has joined #scheme 23:40:19 dfjklaaf [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 23:54:21 vercingetorix [~vercinget@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:55:48 Hi, I am using MzScheme and am working mostly in the interpreter. I am building a site off of this and it works fine when the interpreter is running. Is there a way to have long-running process exist without having the interpreter open all the time? 23:59:35 What's your problem?