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02:48:22 heh 02:48:30 rookfood: I think the latest racket works on it 02:48:40 haven't tried though 02:53:24 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 02:54:59 rookfood: If 10.7 = Lion, then Racket should work on it. 02:56:13 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:56:22 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 03:09:04 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:22:09 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 03:32:42 -!- copumpkin is now known as ProofWizard 03:38:13 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:48:45 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-127-117.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:54 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:52:00 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 03:52:31 -!- ProofWizard is now known as copumpkin 03:54:04 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:00:42 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:20:30 offby1, eli: thanks 04:21:18 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:29 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-157-58.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:24:38 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 04:32:02 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #scheme 04:34:19 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:07:50 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 05:11:27 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Client Quit] 05:26:48 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #scheme 05:39:06 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-127-117.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:58:15 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 06:00:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-245.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:08:07 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:22:33 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:22:52 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:26:16 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:31 -!- pyro- [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:56:56 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:59:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-245.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:27:29 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:51:20 hmmm... I need 48s for (fib 25) ... 07:52:40 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 07:52:40 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 07:56:43 dostoyevsky: Are you writing a scheme implementation? 08:03:07 mmc [~michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 08:03:11 foof: A scheme-a language... but not a real scheme implementation 08:03:17 scheme-y 08:07:28 (I would strongly suggest dropping the idea and writing _in_ language rather than inventing your own subnormal dialect.) 08:09:39 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:14:12 pyro- [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has joined #scheme 08:18:41 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 08:19:33 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.131] has joined #scheme 08:22:15 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:22:27 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:22:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.131] has quit [Client Quit] 08:27:45 -!- ASau [~user@176.14.33.178] has quit [Quit: off] 08:29:37 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:38:11 jdfjklajkl [~paulh@244-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 08:39:21 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-37-80.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:43:51 masm [~masm@bl15-76-171.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 08:54:25 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-19.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 09:04:58 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-19.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:05:06 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 09:05:25 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 09:06:41 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:48 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-46-42.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 09:36:52 mmc1 [~michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 09:40:22 -!- mmc [~michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:45:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 10:05:07 dostoyevsky: AsSn is giving you a good advice. 10:05:09 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.231] has joined #scheme 10:07:01 what's the best way to find info about a symbol? 10:07:58 leo2007: reading the standard and the implementation documentation. 10:08:31 leo2007: If it was CL, I'd say cl:describe and cl:documentation, but scheme lacks those amenities, they're not "pure" or elegant enough, I guess... 10:10:12 but when I type sin in the repl, it prints #. Is there a way to get that info programmingly? 10:12:08 Yes. (let ((info sin)) info) 10:12:37 leo2007: notice also that there's no type-of function in scheme. You have to write a big cond with integer? procedure? pair? etc. 10:13:03 And since there are always implementation specific types, you are sure to miss some. 10:13:03 yeah 10:14:21 surprising the kawa scheme swank server supports inspection. See: http://paste.pound-python.org/show/10590 10:15:29 leo2007: well, of course. I'd bet most of the implementations do. They would be useless without it. 10:15:49 leo2007: The problem is that there's no standard API. Perhaps something in SRFIs? 10:18:37 Is there an equivalent of intern/unintern? 10:21:03 string->symbol 10:21:08 there's no unintern 10:23:09 But then, since symbols have no properties, no values, there would be no point in uninterning them. 10:24:31 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 10:24:33 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 10:26:38 still, the lack of gensym is annoying 10:26:43 where can i read about what all this interned and uninterned stuff is? 10:27:27 weirdo: there is (gentemp) in kawa. 10:27:47 but it's not standard 10:29:31 (define gensym-counter 0) (define gensym (lambda base (let ((base (if (null? base) "G" (car base)))) (string->symbol (string-append base (number->string (begin (set! gensym-counter (+ 1 gensym-counter)) gensym-counter))))))) 10:30:13 yeah, but it's unhygienic. i do something very similar, still 10:30:17 with a very unlikely prefix 10:38:46 At least with memoization my fib is blazingly fast 10:41:59 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:45 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:02:29 ok, now numeric dispatch takes 1/3 of the time it took previouly 11:04:01 pjb: I knew that my initials can get into alloys if improperly capitalized. 11:04:16 pjb: what I didn't expect is getting into that familiar alloys. :) 11:04:41 Yes, that's strange. 11:06:38 I blame it on my morning eyes. 11:08:57 (http://www.americanelements.com/snas.html, just in case you dind't know.) 11:10:29 Yes, AsSn is not too safe... 11:10:42 Sn = antimoine = kills monks. 11:11:44 can you guys help me improve my numerical tower performance? 11:11:57 it's written in JS and tries to implement standard Scheme types 11:12:40 it's written in JS, not scheme, because of circularity issues 11:12:52 weirdo: for MPNs I'd dig into GMP for references. 11:12:57 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:13:01 MPN? 11:13:02 weirdo: otherwise I don't see many problems. 11:13:17 Multiple (arbitrary) precision numbers. 11:13:35 DGASAU, i'm having problems even when numbers aren't promoted to bigints 11:13:52 the profiling results are totally bogus because of CPS :( 11:14:14 weirdo: Why are you using CPS? 11:14:18 Then you should start from explanation of your problems. 11:14:30 dostoyevsky, because i want call/cc 11:14:53 DGASAU, i have a function that takes 2 numbers and promotes them to one that has higher "priority" 11:15:01 it goes like complex -> float -> rational -> bigint -> int 11:15:17 the function is very simple, look: 11:16:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123799 11:17:17 and it takes so much 'self' time in profiling i have no clue what happens... 11:18:55 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 11:20:16 the only thing 'k' ever does in promote-binary is set some closed-over variables to its arguments 11:20:28 and it takes so much time i dunno... 11:21:48 weirdo: Maybe it makes it difficult for JS's optimizer if k's parameter can change so much... 11:22:01 yes 11:22:06 but what can i do? 11:22:12 and not k 11:22:14 it's 11:22:27 var target = _SCMinternal_numberDispatch[type1][type2]; 11:22:39 this method is dynamically computed. not only that, it's called on different types of objects 11:23:54 If you simplify indexing, will it become easier? 11:24:10 how? 11:24:17 row-major-aref? 11:24:21 (concat 'string type1 type2) 11:24:30 DGASAU, that was worse 11:24:47 Why? 11:24:47 probably because of consing so much 11:24:49 takamoron [~takamorm@shell.onid.oregonstate.edu] has joined #scheme 11:24:51 strings 11:25:00 Alright, do it with numbers. 11:25:08 10*type1+type2 11:25:16 ok 11:25:22 i just found out 11:25:30 it's a {}, not a [] that indexes 11:25:36 so it's a hash. need to change that as well 11:26:11 ("Real programmer can program Fortran in any language.") 11:30:04 _SCMinternal_numberDispatch[i] = {}; 11:35:18 yes. 11:35:23 i already took care of that, but thanks 11:35:23 :-) 11:35:37 it's now an Array(25) 11:36:16 profiling... 11:36:17 weirdo: Did it become any faster? 11:36:21 dostoyevsky, running 11:36:26 ah... :) 11:36:45 my 'tak' now takes over 2 minutes instead of 4 seconds 11:36:52 it took 4-5 seconds using native JS floats 11:36:58 weirdo: Which JS engine are you using? 11:37:02 dostoyevsky, Chrome 11:37:30 good.. 11:37:53 2.3 min instead of 2.6 11:37:54 ... 11:40:15 -!- mmc1 [~michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:41:04 maybe it would get faster if you could generate a static (function__) for each possible combination... Maybe that would simplify the dispatch so far that the optimizer could get to work.. 11:41:42 dostoyevsky, yes, i thought of that, but forgot. thank you 11:41:44 :-) 11:41:53 first i'm gonna change > to a compiler-macro 11:41:58 err, not change, augment 11:44:02 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 11:44:10 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:38 weirdo: Maybe Fabrice Bellard's PC emulator in JS might be worth looking at, too... 11:44:56 eh :-( 11:46:11 first i'm gonna do > and then your suggestion 11:52:15 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:55:23 sheesh, i'm an idiot 11:55:45 i forgot to end a code-branch 11:55:52 so the hard path executed anyway 11:56:00 and the delimited k executed twice 11:56:02 mmc [~michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 11:56:45 OK, running 11:57:14 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 12:03:23 1 minute. running further optimizations. 12:04:15 i went from 2.6 to 1 12:04:32 weirdo: Sounds good.. :) 12:04:54 when i have type inference it'll be 4 secs 12:04:55 really 12:04:55 :) 12:05:13 I wish I could make progress like that... 12:05:30 1.1 min 12:06:00 that's because i had to add new checks to code 12:06:54 but promoteBinary is now 7% instead of 46 12:07:23 dostoyevsky, you can make progress if your compiler is properly written 12:07:32 don't delve further into bad design. rewrite instead :) 12:08:05 mmc1 [~michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 12:08:13 -!- mmc [~michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:09:08 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:09:10 weirdo: I'll begin with my compiler soon... Haven't even started yet 12:09:31 to IL? 12:09:36 .NET? 12:09:44 x86 12:12:58 protip: write some intermediate representation so it isn't intimately tied to x86 12:16:20 it's 1 min after some serious optimizations 12:16:27 can you try the same form on your compiler? 12:20:19 weirdo: I think the first version of my compiler will be similar in some ways to http://bellard.org/otcc/otccn.c 12:21:11 oh, the same dude who wrote qemu 12:21:19 i knew the name sounded familiar 12:22:06 trying chrome beta now :-) 12:22:39 but there are some ops that can't be optimized, e.g. SCM_div(x) 12:22:45 i mean 12:22:58 -!- pyro- [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has left #scheme 12:23:02 it only works as T.SCM_div(T) 12:23:22 but it's supposed to be generic so i won't have to rewrite it for every numeric type 12:26:16 If you use v8 standalone, you might get an even more improved version... http://code.google.com/p/v8/ 12:29:53 yeah, i have a repo 12:38:40 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 12:39:10 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has left #scheme 12:50:36 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #scheme 12:51:29 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:01:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 13:04:52 pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.248.53] has joined #scheme 13:10:59 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:35 -!- imphasing|home is now known as imphasing 13:16:18 You guys are making me want to write a compiler :P 13:16:24 And I have no idea how to do that. 13:17:10 imphasing: read books :) 13:17:21 That's the usual way :P 13:17:32 Seems like a fun project 13:18:10 It would be even more interesting to do some kind of fatamura projection on my interpreter and convert it into a compiler.. 13:18:19 Somehow, with magic. And probably robes. 13:30:00 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 13:34:05 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:40:32 Some doc says using = to compare non-numeric value and number throws an error. Is it true? 13:40:56 Kawa: (= #f 2) => #f 13:41:09 csdwifi [~csdwifi@76.177.215.56] has joined #scheme 13:41:10 -!- csdwifi [~csdwifi@76.177.215.56] has quit [Changing host] 13:41:10 csdwifi [~csdwifi@unaffiliated/csddesk] has joined #scheme 13:43:03 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-176.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:43:50 leo2007, racket and chicken raise a type error. 13:44:23 kuribas [~user@d54C43831.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 13:44:45 DT``: thanks for that. so the behaviour is unspecified. 13:45:24 R5RS actually specifies that `=''s arguments accepts only numbers. 13:47:29 DT``: I wonder if that is a bug in Kawa scheme. 13:50:55 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@static.112.22.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:25 in kawa, () eq '() 13:53:24 and so, work has begun on a static type system 13:53:43 leo2007, maybe kawa uses java's .Equals() for =, but I don't know. 13:53:59 some other Schemes let () evaluate to '() too. 14:01:01 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-183-249.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 14:02:45 imphasing: Maybe my project can server as a simple example on how to write a scheme compiler with maybe 3000 lines of C code.. Which actually is not much in terms of C... 14:03:04 dostoyevsky: Oh nice, I'd love to take a look :) 14:03:12 dostoyevsky: have a look at lisp500.c 14:03:41 I'm sure lisp500 is more usable than what you'll get. 14:12:36 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:13:58 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:15:30 -!- mmc1 [~michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:15:34 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:53 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #scheme 14:16:06 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 14:17:58 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-57.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:28:54 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:38 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 14:30:19 imphasing: I hope I have something in the next weeks. :) 14:31:35 mmc [~michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 14:34:45 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:35:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:47 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:37:02 Brendan_T [~brendan@static.112.22.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 14:39:04 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:21 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:40:01 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 14:40:46 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 14:56:47 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:34 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 15:00:17 l0v3w@t3r 15:00:30 -!- evhan [~evhan@unaffiliated/evhan] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:01:07 evhan [~evhan@unaffiliated/evhan] has joined #scheme 15:01:25 Who thinks that was evhan's password? 15:02:09 fds: worse, a work password. time to change passwords again... *sigh* 15:02:21 11:01 ghost evhan l0v3w@t3r 15:02:21 11:01 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Invalid password for evhan. 15:02:24 i'm so ethical 15:02:26 heh 15:02:32 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:02:43 but ouch 15:02:47 you like drinking water? 15:02:52 evhan: Eep, bad luck. :-( 15:04:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-57.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:04:31 ecraven: i work at a water science lab. i won't tell you which one just yet, though ;) 15:04:57 lol, i'm in central europe, probably too far away to reach it anytime soon 15:11:51 zanes [~zane@mail.barackobama.com] has joined #scheme 15:13:00 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:14:07 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:17:39 can you tell me if there's something missing in my implementation of simplify-unions? 15:17:42 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123807 15:17:57 it deals with union types like '(or foo (or bar baz)) 15:18:26 there are no intersection types like (and number (eql 42)) 15:24:21 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:55 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:25:47 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:10 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 15:32:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-245.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 15:35:50 HG` [~HG@p5DC05506.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:38:32 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05506.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:47:33 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:49:57 homie 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#scheme 16:50:28 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 16:55:15 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:56:59 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:59:45 littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 16:59:49 -!- littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has quit [Changing host] 16:59:49 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #scheme 17:05:25 csdwifi [~csdwifi@76.177.215.56] has joined #scheme 17:05:25 -!- csdwifi [~csdwifi@76.177.215.56] has quit [Changing host] 17:05:25 csdwifi [~csdwifi@unaffiliated/csddesk] has joined #scheme 17:11:12 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 17:12:20 dfeuer [~dfeuer@pool-71-178-51-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:12:20 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@pool-71-178-51-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:12:20 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 17:12:35 jonrafkind [~jon@67.139.146.6] has joined #scheme 17:20:22 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #scheme 17:28:10 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:44:26 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 17:48:48 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:50:44 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:53 weirdo: How do you represent fraction numbers in JavaScript? 18:05:09 dostoyevsky, a class 18:05:20 of elements either bigint or js int 18:05:26 Ah... cool. May I see it? 18:05:35 http://piec.itcrew.pl/seaking 18:05:54 search for _SCMinternal_bigInt 18:06:22 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:11:16 *weirdo* writing a 'subtype? that works on type unions both ways 18:14:19 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:15:47 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@67.139.146.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.231] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 18:17:27 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:43 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 18:20:12 -!- stamourv [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:21:02 stamourv [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:21:10 -!- csdwifi [~csdwifi@unaffiliated/csddesk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:26:55 it works 18:27:16 > (subtype? 'real '(or complex real) js-tc) => #t 18:27:17 > (subtype? '(or complex real) 'real js-tc) => #f 18:30:22 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 18:30:22 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:30:22 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 18:30:57 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 18:32:40 -!- stamourv [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:32:48 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:00 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:22 stamourv [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:42:29 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 18:55:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123819 19:02:35 but this one's wrong: (subtype? '(list (or flonum rational)) '(list complex) js-tc) 19:05:41 ok, now it returns #t 19:10:51 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 19:11:41 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:12:41 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 19:17:34 guys, i need some help with a unification algorithm 19:17:43 i mean, type inference 19:17:53 i have no clue on how to infer recursive functions 19:18:25 some form of cyclic check has to be implemented, but what else to do? 19:19:30 generate a fresh type variable for the output and inputs of the function, infer the body in terms of those, and magically unify 19:19:43 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:01 -!- rookfood [~noah@pool-173-49-127-187.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:51 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:21:41 copumpkin, i don't have type variables, just type arguments like in C# 2.0 19:21:45 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:21:48 because it's enough for the optimization purposes 19:22:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:24:54 I just mean a unification variable or something 19:25:48 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:48 i don't have those either :| 19:26:49 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-133.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:29:28 phao [phao@187.1.239.186] has joined #scheme 19:31:31 I thought you had a unification algortihm 19:34:44 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbecabb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:34:52 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfcd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:34:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:35:34 copumpkin, my algorithm unifies types, but not type variables. i so far haven't found a need for them 19:35:39 surely, it makes for a more powerful type system 19:35:54 but all i do is de-genericize generic arithmetic in scheme 19:43:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:43:45 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 19:47:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:47:33 -!- imphasing [~Alex@97-80-157-169.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:49:45 pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.98] has joined #scheme 19:49:49 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.98] has quit [Changing host] 19:49:49 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 19:50:45 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable110.176-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:51:31 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:37 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 20:00:23 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #scheme 20:10:17 ASau [~user@176.14.33.178] has joined #scheme 20:13:12 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:30 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 20:16:20 YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-24-147.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 20:22:57 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #scheme 20:41:16 weirdo: If you're interested in types for Scheme, have a look at Typed Racket. 20:41:26 It has union types, intersection types, and more. 20:41:38 And it uses types for numeric optimization. 20:41:40 stamourv, i'm not really interested in anything that changes the semantics of Scheme, sorry 20:41:51 It doesn't change the semantics. 20:41:54 wow 20:42:05 then it must be great, i suppose! 20:42:08 It compiles down to Racket. The types are discarded after checking. 20:42:09 -!- phao [phao@187.1.239.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:29 The whole type system was built to accomodate the kinds of programs people write in Racket. 20:42:40 It's nothing like ML or Haskell, or anything like that. 20:43:18 it must be awesome 20:43:19 :-) 20:43:29 I think it is. 20:43:47 (Disclaimer: I'm one of its developers.) 20:44:17 i wonder if it's going to be similar to what i'm writing 20:44:25 you probably have algebraic types, though 20:44:30 my types unify with... other types 20:44:59 I'm not sure I understand what you mean. 20:45:34 i don't have type variables 20:45:48 in my own type-inference setup which isn't complete yet 20:45:58 Oh, your type system is monomorphic? 20:46:01 yes 20:46:11 i only have type arguments being other types 20:46:53 stuff like '(complex bigint) but not `(complex ,gensym) 20:47:31 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 20:50:39 If you're using it only for optimization, you may want to look at type recovery analysis. 20:50:40 stamourv, if your system has intersections et alia, is still everything decidable? 20:51:01 Dimitris Vardoulakis has DrJs, which does type recovery for javascript. 20:51:10 what does that mean? 20:51:26 type recovery, that is 20:51:29 TR has limited intersection types, only function types can be intersections. 20:51:56 With type checking, if the type system can't figure out a type, it's an error. 20:52:37 With type recovery, you're interested in figuring out as much as you can, usually for optimization, and if there's something you can't figure out, you give up but compile/run it anyway. 20:53:05 Just without typed optimizations. 20:53:38 that's how SBCL does it 20:53:44 but why would one need type intersections? 20:55:44 Function intersection types can express ad-hoc polymorphism. 20:56:21 As in: `f' can take integers to integers, and strings to strings. 20:56:30 That's an intersection type. 20:56:51 And a lot of Scheme/Racket idioms are like that. 20:56:52 stamourv, i don't need type recovery for that 20:56:57 or intersection types 20:57:23 I'm not sure I follow you. 20:57:45 If all you want type recovery for numerical optimizations, then yes, you probably don't need intersection types. 20:58:01 i'm gonna make a new function that does the translation 20:58:09 But if you want type checking for Scheme idioms, then they're pretty handy. 20:58:22 could you please provide an exampel? 20:58:26 example* 20:58:32 Of an intersection type? 20:58:35 yes 20:59:31 (define (f x) (cond [(string? x) (string-append x "!")] [(number? x) (+ x 1)])) 21:00:02 `f' has type (in Typed Racket notation): (case-> (String -> String) (Number -> Number)). 21:00:07 i wonder how to implement that 21:00:15 Where `case->' means intersection. 21:00:22 i need to check all branches, right? 21:00:29 but, hmm 21:00:31 Yes. 21:00:42 It's not all that hard, but it's not trivial either. 21:01:11 i have a 'function' type, so i can start with that 21:01:15 If you want to do this, I suggest reading about intersection types, that will probably save you a lot of time. 21:02:03 i think i understand now. thanks a lot for bringing this to my attention 21:02:16 my pet JS-scheme will be so much more awesome with that 21:06:24 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 21:07:02 -!- metasyntax|work [~taylor@fw-its-kt209a-2.dyn.ipfw.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat [quit]] 21:07:21 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:09:38 is the syntax just for kicks, or can you curry types and have 'kinds' a'la haskell? 21:10:35 What do you mean? 21:10:59 these -> arrows are usually because stuff can be curried 21:11:07 otherwise they are redundant 21:11:46 They're actually necessary in the case of multiple return values. 21:11:59 You can't just assume that the last part is the return type. 21:12:59 i see 21:13:02 karme [~user@stgt-5f70c078.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 21:13:06 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-46-58.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:13:11 i have a special 'values type, just like in common lisp 21:13:56 martinhex [~mjc@93.97.29.243] has joined #scheme 21:14:27 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-46-58.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 21:18:49 > (unify-values-forms '((number number) (symbol number) (symbol number pair)) js-tc) 21:18:52 {values {or number symbol} number &optional pair} 21:19:01 :) 21:22:45 That's union, not unification. 21:23:39 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23:42 thanks 21:23:48 -!- zmv is now known as \o\ 21:23:48 but! 21:23:58 -> isn't a Haskell thing it's a math thing. ;) 21:24:05 are you sure? if i pass complex and real, it becomes a complex 21:24:17 is it still not unification? 21:25:15 No, it's still union. 21:25:30 Reals are a subset of complex numbers, so their union is complex. 21:25:54 unification is always with variables, right? 21:25:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_%28computer_science%29 21:26:28 -!- \o\ is now known as zmv 21:27:09 thank you 21:31:12 -!- zmv is now known as \\\\\ 21:31:56 -!- \\\\\ is now known as zmv 21:39:40 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:06 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:13 weirdo: no. 21:45:20 (1 2 3) unifies with (1 2 3). 21:45:45 (1 x 3) unifies with (1 2 3) when x is bound to 2. 21:46:42 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-183-249.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:47:41 or unbound? 21:47:51 s/when/iff/ 21:47:58 oh 21:48:02 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-64-136.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 21:48:19 then it's different from norvig's unification library 21:48:27 there was no binding syntax, and it just tried every combination 21:48:37 So if you want to unify (1 x 3) with (1 2 3), either x is already bound to 2, or it's unbound and you have to make it bound to 2. 21:48:53 weirdo: look more closely. 21:49:22 oh 21:49:24 i see 21:49:39 weirdo: in such code, we don't establis bindings at the level of the language, we just keep lists of "bindings" such as pairs of the symbol naming the variable and the value "bound", but if you look at the code, you'll see that if there is already such a "binding", if the value is not the same it fails. 21:52:19 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:56:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:19 stamourv, now i need to define how types get slurped from 'if' expressions 21:57:26 any ideas? 21:57:45 i have a list of type predicates 21:59:02 (type (if c a b)) = (union (type a) (type b)). 21:59:49 that's not yet it 22:00:13 pjb, look how stamourv did it, he has separate types for each case in a cond 22:00:37 in this case, i won't even unionize them, but collect them. the problems is resolving nested 'if' expressions. they can be really anything 22:00:44 (if c a b) = (cond (c a) (else b)) 22:10:09 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.248.53] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 22:11:20 choas [~lars@p5792C399.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:15:26 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:18:10 -!- choas [~lars@p5792C399.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:22:32 -!- karme [~user@stgt-5f70c078.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #scheme 22:30:14 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 22:30:18 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 22:51:50 pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 23:09:01 -!- twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:32 soveran [~soveran@host186.190-136-33.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 23:12:57 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 23:12:57 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:12:57 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 23:13:16 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: JuanDaugherty] 23:15:01 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:16:03 -!- soveran [~soveran@host186.190-136-33.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:21 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:22 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:25:22 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:25:27 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:28:22 hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:29:40 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:29:54 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:30:07 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:36:19 i have a problem 23:36:24 oh 23:36:25 wait 23:36:37 when trying to express it, i found out it's not really a problem 23:38:06 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:38:09 -!- hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:49:47 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:58 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 23:51:21 tupi [~david@189.60.160.15] has joined #scheme 23:51:39 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:51:39 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:53:52 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:02 hussaibi__ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:56:16 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:56:20 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 23:57:19 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]