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It would probably just be a set of utilities. 03:16:40 *eli* has hard time choosing whether to LOL or to COL. 03:20:06 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:23:55 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 03:28:42 In addition, some form of weakness will have to be in WG2. 03:34:44 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:35:03 jcowan: Weakness would be good, yes. *quickly reads up R6RS to see if it has that too* 03:35:11 It doesn't. 03:35:39 *nods* 03:35:59 tupi [~david@189.60.162.202] has joined #scheme 03:36:59 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 03:37:25 -!- pjb is now known as Guest4214 03:37:29 :-O 03:37:42 Didn't identify fast enough? 03:38:18 -!- Guest4214 is now known as pjb` 03:39:13 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 03:39:54 cky: no, it's freenode that keeps the nickname upon disconnects, so you have to release and re/nick it. 03:42:52 pjb: Oh no, I just ghost it. 03:43:32 pjb: release is for when there's a squatter involved. 03:43:57 pjb: It renames the squatter because many IRC clients autoreconnect on KILL (which is what ghosting will do). 03:44:48 pjb: And since, in IRC protocol, NICK is the first command sent, an autoreconnecting client can claim your nickname again faster than you can type /nick yourself. 03:45:17 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 03:46:28 In summary, if I know that my nickname is used up by my ghost, I just use /msg NickServ ghost; if I know it's used up by a squatter, I use /msg NickServ release. Hopefully that makes some sense. :-) 03:46:47 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 03:47:40 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:22 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 03:52:03 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 03:55:55 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:02:41 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:40 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 04:06:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 04:18:24 Penten` [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #scheme 04:18:33 -!- mithridates [~mithridat@142.167.229.211] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:19:34 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-98-89-49-88.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:20:28 -!- Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:21:16 chrissbx [~chrissbx@bas1-montreal07-1176500366.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 04:23:02 Does anyone *understand* the reason behind (cut if <> 0 1) being illegal (srfi-26)? 04:23:30 I've tried to track down the reasoning from the discussion archive, but failed. 04:23:46 For me it's just a nuisance that special forms are disallowed, and I don't see the benefit. 04:25:57 So I'm tempted to hack the implementation to allow it, but I'd like to know whether I'm going to have difficult times 'selling' my code afterwards (or worse, running into an issue myself). 04:26:28 Well, one issue is that CUT impairs the legibility of the code in the first place, so... 04:26:55 I find it quite readable. 04:27:40 And, being on the syntactical level (of one form), I don't understand why it wouldn't allow to mod any kind of form. 04:28:55 Right now I'm writing code with many pattern matches, the pattern matcher in question being (mcase . ). 04:29:12 Now I've got many cases like (map (lambda (x) (mcase x ...)) ..) 04:29:23 and would prefer to write (map (cut mcase <> ...) ..) 04:29:37 What would you do? 04:30:02 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:07 MATCH-LAMBDA, perhaps? 04:30:49 Does that allow several cases in one form? (googling..) 04:31:11 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 04:32:07 ah, seems that's like (cut mcase <>..) but without the cut and <> and instead a longer name. 04:32:56 hrm, going to try with a mcase-lambda macro. 04:33:48 (Be careful to distinguish writable code from readable code.) 04:35:02 I've re-read code using cut I wrote months+ ago and had no issues I can remember. 04:38:28 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:47:40 wisey [~Steven@host86-147-31-167.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 04:50:06 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:52:07 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 04:52:09 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:52:51 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 04:53:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 04:57:15 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:57:33 faze` [~chris@c-66-41-214-247.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:00:46 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:03:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:03:35 asumu [~at@c-24-63-27-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:05:31 bluemind [~mahendra@122.170.114.33] has joined #scheme 05:05:40 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 05:07:38 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #scheme 05:13:03 -!- asumu [~at@c-24-63-27-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13:50 -!- faze` [~chris@c-66-41-214-247.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:17:42 faze` [~chris@c-66-41-214-247.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:17:47 -!- faze` [~chris@c-66-41-214-247.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:18:14 -!- wisey [~Steven@host86-147-31-167.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:28:47 faze` [~chris@c-66-41-214-247.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:32:31 eholk [~eholk@63-235-13-3.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 05:40:44 -!- eholk [~eholk@63-235-13-3.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: eholk] 05:43:42 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 05:44:13 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:29 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has left #scheme 05:48:16 tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 05:53:34 I think something like [...] as syntax for (cut ...) would improve the readability. 05:54:03 And I definitely think `if' and other syntax should be allowed in the operator position. 05:54:31 The original argument on the mailing list said something vague about hygiene, but that seemed unfounded. 05:57:26 foof: I would love to try implementing a version that allowed anything in the operator position. While I'm at it, I'd use Boost.Lambda syntax (_1, _2, ..., _9), so you are not tied to left-to-right parameter replacement. 05:57:55 Maybe wrapped up in <> for ease of visual spotting. 05:58:31 Allowing anything in the operator position is easy - just remove the (begin op) that was deliberately introduced to prevent it. 05:58:41 Right. 05:58:41 yes 05:59:04 Using <1>, <2>, ... was discussed on the list for positioned arguments. 05:59:39 *nods* 05:59:41 Also the extension of arguments at depth > 1. 05:59:43 I'm with the argumentation that more than offering just <> would be overkill (drop back to named args in the cases where you need it). 06:00:05 Well, that's fine, I can accept that. 06:00:51 One thing that I can't accept, and I hope people on the list have actually thought this through, was SRFI 41's stream-unfolds (yes, I know Riastradh's opinion of SRFI 41 ;-)). 06:01:22 In particular, stream-unfolds specifies (list foo) to add foo to the stream, #f to add nothing to the stream, and () to end the stream. 06:01:45 I would do it this way: (list foo ...) to add foo ... to the stream, '() to add nothing (obviously), and #f to end the stream. 06:01:57 -!- bluemind [~mahendra@122.170.114.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:04 It's much more consistent. I know, I know, the intent of (list foo) was actually to use it as a box, but, it could easily be used as a list, and should be used that way. 06:03:19 06:05:18 eli: "5.99" is put in a marker between stages. 06:05:34 eli: in that particular case, between configure and build. 06:05:43 Actually, I have a Google+ now. I should just post my rant there. :-P 06:06:12 And if you're going to go so far as to use numbered args, use the Perl6 syntax - ^a, ^b, ^c for any alphabetical list. 06:06:37 foof: What does Perl 6 do if you have more than 26 (!) parameters? 06:06:54 eli: I don't run most of commands manually, I do that in "batches." 06:11:21 (Also, "99" is very convenient way to enforce reasonable 06:11:22 order between development and release versions. I like it.) 06:16:01 cky: The parameters can have any length. 06:16:46 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-26/mail-archive/msg00040.html 06:17:13 ASau`: You mean that 5.99 is supposed to be the racket version? That would be pretty bad. 06:18:21 ASau`: Also, I didn't think that you ran something manually, I meant that it looks like you changed some things in the configuration or the build or something like that. 06:20:10 :-O 06:22:06 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable020.240-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:22:33 eli: that's external (to racket) label for binary package. 06:22:40 eli: nothing is changed in source. 06:23:23 Having someone see a download for "Racket 5.99" is bad; no need to change the source to make it bad. 06:23:45 It's development version, internal to my systems. 06:23:56 When it is ready, it will be labeled properly. 06:24:09 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:24:14 5.2 or 5.1, whatever you announce in release notes. 06:24:14 Why not "5.1.1.99"? 06:24:27 I don't know your release numbering. 06:24:37 What is next release? 06:24:38 5.1.2? 06:24:50 Yes. 06:25:03 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:25:10 Then it will be 5.1.1.99 in few seconds. 06:25:18 And since we're working on a release right now there is a "release" branch, 06:25:39 and its version is "5.1.1.900", which is what we use by convention. 06:25:50 Hm. URL? 06:25:59 For the convention? 06:26:06 See src/racket/src/schvers.h 06:26:08 For release branch. 06:26:17 It's in git. 06:26:40 I don't quite get it. 06:26:57 Do you have separate branch/tag for release engineering in git? 06:27:07 It's a branch, as usual with git. 06:27:18 If you have a clone, run "git branch -a" and you'll see it. 06:27:26 Ah. 06:28:01 (Early in the morning isn't the best way to get things right.) 06:28:51 Alright, I'll fix it to correspond to Racket conventions. 06:29:18 I doubt it affects backtrace though. :) 06:29:23 It's not that important if you use it only for yourself, the danger is in "leaking" it out, which can lead to a ton of confusion. 06:29:30 No, it's of course unrelated. 06:30:00 The pthreads thing is probably easier to debug, if you look at the configure logfile or something like that. 06:30:02 We don't ship development versions from VCS. 06:31:41 I'll check pthreads on more powerful machine today. 06:31:51 Well, you if you say "we", then there's at least one potential person that will wonder why it will get downgraded from 5.99 to 5.1.2... 06:32:38 "5.99" isn't anywhere besides my systems. 06:32:46 It's my personal development version. 06:32:53 "designation" 06:33:07 Then that's fine then. 06:34:14 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has left #scheme 06:36:40 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:51:47 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:03:30 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:03:47 -!- monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hello] 07:06:51 -!- augiedoggie [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:07:50 augiedoggie [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 07:30:02 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 07:31:24 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 07:42:51 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 07:43:41 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:49:21 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 08:00:17 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 08:00:32 gosh> #x8000 gives 32768 08:00:54 wish to know which funtion is being called for the conversion of hex to dec 08:01:25 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-04/msg00507.html 08:01:29 oops 08:01:31 sorry, wrong window 08:04:25 i wish to have it the reverse also, key in a decimal and get a hex 08:05:41 rudybot: eval (number->string 32768 16) 08:05:42 foof: your sandbox is ready 08:05:42 foof: ; Value: "8000" 08:07:19 thanks , that is good enough 08:08:18 can i write a macro for that ? say #c32768 giving 8000 08:08:33 no, the goonies are good enough 08:08:54 masm [~masm@bl15-132-162.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 08:09:47 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 08:10:13 nataraj: #x8000 is not a different number than 32768. They're both represented identically inside the computer. When the system prints back your number, it will always use decimal notation 08:10:38 Any macro you can come up with that converts to a number will just return that number, and you'll see it in decimal notation again 08:11:13 It can't "give" 8000 because 8000 is a different number 08:11:24 (8000 decimal, that is) 08:12:41 mmc [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 08:12:44 sjamaan, i understand 08:13:25 any workaround for a short form for (number->string num 16)? 08:13:54 Sure you can make a reader macro that returns a string 08:14:07 I don't know what if and how that works in Gauche 08:14:10 RTFM :) 08:14:18 :) 08:15:07 actually, i am on armpit scheme on a micro controller 08:15:17 wanna test its limits 08:19:55 sjamaan: if bit #15 is reserved for sign, 32768 is double precision, while #x8000 is -32768 or -0. 08:20:08 (Portability paranoia.) 08:20:17 That wasn't the question 08:20:41 Also, Gauche uses bignums 08:20:50 :) 08:21:14 Riastradh: relevance logic on IRC 08:21:18 Riastradh: that's cute. 08:22:00 (It isn't quite relevance logic, I know, but the distinction is nice.) 08:22:31 morning, folks. 08:22:44 morning, wingo 08:22:53 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 08:22:55 Afternoon. 08:23:01 %] 08:25:36 hi peeps 08:32:47 peep! :) 08:33:21 wingo: Is Olin as funny in real life as his rants? 08:35:20 He's a good speaker. Very charismatic. 08:35:42 yeah, what foof said 08:36:14 in the us we have a stereotype that people with southern accents are stupid 08:36:26 so it's nice also to hear smart things coming out with a very southern accent :) 08:36:32 :) 08:41:03 He's usually very tired, and it doesn't help when the music in the next office is banging. 08:41:23 show-off :P 08:41:40 :) 08:42:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:29 :) 08:43:52 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-195-171.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 08:44:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-68-238.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:53:53 I don't really have a stereotype that southerners are stupid. I tend to think of Gone With the Wind or Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mocking Bird. 08:54:35 OK, maybe Gone With the Wind isn't a good example of intelligence... 08:54:47 :) 08:54:48 How about Inherit the Wind? 08:58:49 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:58:59 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-132-162.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:11 foof: I think it depends on what you call intelligence. 09:00:28 *eli* doesn't even know how to tell which accent comes from, still 09:00:44 masm [~masm@bl15-132-162.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:00:47 foof: IIRC, the dream of girls was quite a reasonable man judging from book. 09:02:53 eli: have you thought about parallelising the build? 09:02:59 It takes a whole lot of time. 09:03:03 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:03:54 DGASAU: It is done in parallel. 09:04:26 Hm. 09:04:29 I see single racket3m process. 09:05:11 How many cores do you have? 09:05:17 2 09:06:09 rudybot: (require places) (place-enabled?) 09:06:09 eli: [2] now FOLLOW THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS IN THE FILE, typically adding (require ') to the end of ~/.emacs, ..[Type ,more] 09:06:16 rudybot: eval (require places) (place-enabled?) 09:06:16 eli: your sandbox is ready 09:06:16 eli: error: eval:1:9: places: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found: "places" in any of: (# #) in: places 09:06:25 Ugh. 09:06:41 DGASAU: What does it say when you run that? 09:07:39 stdin::60: places: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found: "places" in any of: 09:07:53 (path follows) 09:08:21 *eli* ughs³ 09:08:29 rudybot: eval (require racket/place) (place-enabled?) 09:08:29 eli: ; Value: #f 09:08:46 What does *that* say? 09:09:20 reference to undefined identifier: place-enabled? 09:09:21 *eli* machine crawls to a near-halt 09:09:42 Hm. 09:09:44 Well... 09:09:49 This is 5.0.1 09:10:05 I thought you were running the git head. 09:10:13 s/running/compiling 09:10:22 Hm. 09:10:27 Let me see... 09:10:29 IIRC, 5.0.1 did parallel builds using subprocesses. 09:11:45 rudybot: (processor-count) 09:11:45 eli: error: eval:1:1: compile: access from an uncertified context to protected variable from module: '#%futures in: processor-count 09:12:04 rudybot: (require racket/future) 09:12:04 eli: Done. 09:12:06 rudybot: (processor-count) 09:12:06 eli: error: eval:1:1: compile: access from an uncertified context to protected variable from module: '#%futures in: processor-count 09:12:09 eli: never seen that. 09:12:30 DGASAU: Add "what does that say" to the above question. 09:12:52 What does that "that" refer to? 09:13:19 Loadavg. 12 doesn't allow starting more heavy builds. 09:13:25 (begin (require racket/future racket/place) (list (processor-count) (place-enabled?))) 09:13:32 5.0.1? 09:13:42 Ah, sorry, I forgot. 09:13:58 Just this then: (begin (require racket/future) (processor-count)) 09:14:12 1 09:14:28 $ cpuctl list 09:14:28 Num HwId Unbound LWPs Interrupts Last change #Intr 09:14:28 ---- ---- ------------ ---------- ------------------------ ----- 09:14:28 0 0 online intr Fri Jul 1 14:00:26 2011 16 09:14:31 1 1 online intr Fri Jul 1 14:00:26 2011 0 09:14:34 Then you won't see it since it thinks that you have one cpu. 09:14:50 That might have changed. 5.0.1 is ancient when it comes to parallelism. 09:15:12 Alright, we'll see (hopefully) in the evening. 09:15:41 It is background task, I can't commit to it full time. 09:16:51 It'd help if there was a bsd machine that we'd build on. 09:17:01 We used to have one in the distant past, but the guy left. 09:17:23 Well... 09:17:35 Matt Dillon offers accounts on DragonFly. 09:18:17 We don't have a budget for such things. 09:18:17 Although it is quite peculiar since DragonFly doesn't have large user base. 09:18:28 I know. 09:19:20 I doubt that anyone who makes public hosting for free would like the daily load... 09:22:29 It depends on the load. 09:24:51 choas [~lars@p578F6EE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:31:37 You know that the build is heavy, and on top of that add a sizable chunk of bandwidth. Not something that people like. 09:34:04 I know. :) 09:41:06 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:41:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 09:42:13 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 09:42:13 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:42:13 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 09:44:53 rgrinberg_ [~rgrinberg@66.49.149.80] has joined #scheme 09:46:25 Alright, with --enable-pthread I see that racket3m is linked against it. 09:46:42 We'll see if the build finishes. 09:47:26 DGASAU: So something is wrong with detecting it. It'd help to report it. 09:47:33 dfeuer_ [~dfeuer@pool-71-178-51-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 09:47:48 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:48 -!- tauntaun [~user@li327-197.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:48 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:48 -!- rgee [~rgrinberg@66.49.149.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:12 eli: yes, there's also some additional force in action. 09:48:33 IIRC, we pass necessary flags in CFLAGS/LDFLAGS as well. 09:50:49 And I still see one racket3m process running. 09:55:02 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:23 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 09:56:51 clog_ [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 10:02:23 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:58 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6EE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05:31 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:32 littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 10:05:32 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:33 -!- littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:33 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:33 -!- incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:34 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 10:06:06 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 10:06:43 incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 10:07:50 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 10:13:46 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #scheme 10:15:03 -!- Penten` [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:36 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:19:13 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 10:28:31 is there a 'pcar' in scheme? 10:34:01 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:03 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 10:37:58 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 10:40:00 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:45:22 What does pcar do? 10:57:51 rudybot: pcar 10:57:52 pjb: What does pcar do? 10:58:01 rudybot: (eval pcar) 10:58:02 pjb: your sandbox is ready 10:58:02 pjb: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: pcar in module: 'program 10:58:17 rudybot: (eval car) 10:58:17 pjb: ; Value: # 11:10:12 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10:39 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 11:10:39 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:10:39 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 11:46:46 ffi-lib: couldn't open "libpng.so" (Shared object "libpng.so" not found) 11:46:47 Hm. 11:46:53 Is it configurable? 11:47:04 (It isn't called "libpng.so" here.) 11:48:53 tab1ta [~tab1ta@host202-129-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 11:51:32 emerge media-libs/libpng 11:58:13 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:02:02 1. No "emerge" here. 12:02:06 2. "emerge" sucks. 12:02:32 What doesn't? 12:03:44 *DGASAU* was citing game of questions from "Rosenkrantz and Gildenstern Are Dead" few minutes ago. 12:06:43 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:10:03 alvatar [~alvatar@36.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 12:10:09 hi! 12:10:15 I'm trying to remember the name of a library I once saw 12:10:31 It's for web development, and it featured a reactive systme IRCC 12:10:41 it was based on Gambit, and it had weird name 12:12:10 ok, after a while searching for it, as usually I post it and then I find it. It's called futhark 12:12:25 http://futhark.berlios.de/wiki/index.php/Main_Page 12:12:56 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:16:10 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@36.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:19:37 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 12:23:33 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:26:47 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:35:03 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.48.58] has joined #scheme 12:36:22 overminder [8f59be23@gateway/web/freenode/ip.143.89.190.35] has joined #scheme 12:42:23 -!- jeff___ [~jdlouhy@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:42:41 jeff_ [~jdlouhy@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 12:43:07 -!- mmc [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:43:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:22 mmc [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 12:44:09 -!- mmc [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:17 mmc [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 12:45:32 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:54:16 -!- mmc [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:54:32 mmc [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 12:58:38 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 13:04:33 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 13:05:33 choas [~lars@p578F6EE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:07:21 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:11:57 X-Scale [email@89.181.16.111] has joined #scheme 13:12:16 -!- X-Scale [email@89.181.16.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:51 X-Scale` [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #scheme 13:13:51 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:14:39 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 13:30:44 tzhuang [~tzhuang@72.53.83.36] has joined #scheme 13:31:36 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 13:33:04 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 13:40:32 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 13:45:56 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:34 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 13:51:10 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:26 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 14:01:40 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:02:25 -!- stis [~AndChat@host-90-232-16-23.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:02:41 smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 14:04:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 14:05:58 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:06:44 -!- overminder [8f59be23@gateway/web/freenode/ip.143.89.190.35] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:08:05 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 14:13:36 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 14:14:37 -!- mmc [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:19:05 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #scheme 14:21:10 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:22:08 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:28:55 -!- tzhuang [~tzhuang@72.53.83.36] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:29:00 sorry is "\texttt" a standard input command or just a shortcut you can find on the web? 14:29:28 or is it used to output a monospaced piece of text? 14:29:38 xwl [~user@123.108.223.27] has joined #scheme 14:29:40 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 14:30:24 cause in the wikibook website it is presented as a way to write email address in the part of the document regarding the author 14:31:47 o sorry the wrong channel 14:44:37 -!- xwl [~user@123.108.223.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:16 -!- clog_ [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Quit: ^C] 14:47:46 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 14:50:47 -!- smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:56:47 It's LaTeX. 14:57:41 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-83-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:59:19 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable020.240-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:00:17 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-83-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:03:08 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-149-32.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:04:03 HG` [~HG@p579F7749.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:06:48 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:07:13 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 15:08:37 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:16:57 ASau`` [~user@95-27-211-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:17:29 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 15:18:15 -!- tab1ta [~tab1ta@host202-129-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:18:25 -!- ASau` [~user@95-26-236-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:25:34 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-78-147.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:35 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-106.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 15:37:19 maploin [~mapleoin@fedora/maploin] has joined #scheme 15:37:33 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 15:39:04 why doesn't string-join work with variables that are strings in the string-list parameter? 15:42:42 maploin: Huh? 15:43:56 rudybot: (define-values (first middle last) (values "Bill" "E." "Goat")) 15:43:57 cky: your sandbox is ready 15:43:57 cky: Done. 15:44:17 rudybot: (string-join `(,first ,middle ,last) " ") 15:44:18 cky: ; Value: "Bill E. Goat" 15:44:38 cky: (string-join '("foo" bar)) where bar is a string "bazz" doesn't work 15:44:45 maploin: You need to quasiquote. 15:44:51 maploin: So you'd use `("foo" ,bar). 15:45:02 maploin: See my example above. 15:45:06 oh, cool 15:45:15 maploin: This isn't specific to string-join; that's how quoting in Scheme works. 15:45:33 ok 15:45:38 what's the comma for? 15:45:49 The comma is "unquote". That's how you get the value of the variable. 15:45:57 If you don't unquote, you just get the variable name (as a symbol). 15:45:59 oh, cool 15:46:13 thanks! 15:46:17 My pleasure. :-) 15:46:40 Note also the use of the backtick (`) rather than apostrophe ('). 15:46:55 The apostrophe form ("quote") doesn't support unquoting. Only the backtick form ("quasiquote") does. 15:47:00 yes, I realized that when you said quasiquote 15:47:01 yeah 15:47:04 :-) 15:47:06 cool 15:51:51 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:13 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 15:56:35 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-106.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:56:45 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-149-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:58:55 smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 16:00:45 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:01:54 Can't you just use (string-join (list "foo" bar))? 16:03:17 antoszka: Yes, but that gets clunky after a while. 16:03:36 I suppose it's simpler to comprehend for someone learning, though. 16:03:41 antoszka: I usually prefer quasiquotation unless it's a case of having to unquote every item. 16:03:45 At least at the beginning. 16:03:45 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 16:04:13 -!- yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:04:25 I think maploin got the hang of quasiquote just fine. ;-) 16:04:50 :) 16:04:50 to be fair, I had read about it before, but forgot :) 16:04:54 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 16:05:03 -!- smtlaissezfaire_ [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire_] 16:07:04 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:17:22 Eataix [~Eataix@209.237.253.51] has joined #scheme 16:18:54 hiyuh [~hiyuh@240f:9:a9c:1:216:cbff:fea0:abbb] has joined #scheme 16:19:51 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@240f:9:a9c:1:216:cbff:fea0:abbb] has quit [Client Quit] 16:20:14 hiyuh [~hiyuh@240f:9:a9c:1:216:cbff:fea0:abbb] has joined #scheme 16:22:01 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22:47 -!- maploin [~mapleoin@fedora/maploin] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:23:14 hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:23:24 -!- hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:18 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@240f:9:a9c:1:216:cbff:fea0:abbb] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:37 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-132-160.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 16:27:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 16:41:11 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@209.237.253.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:55:51 poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #scheme 17:04:13 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:24 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 17:11:24 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 17:11:24 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 17:15:24 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:15:46 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:17:11 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:21 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-149-32.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:23:35 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 17:23:35 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 17:23:35 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 17:25:51 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:04 r2q2 [43ad6b5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.173.107.90] has joined #scheme 17:27:05 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:33:06 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:44:09 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 17:51:27 kuribas [~user@94-227-94-171.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 17:54:03 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:55:20 -!- r2q2 [43ad6b5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.173.107.90] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:00:21 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:34 *jcowan* finds that identifier syntax goes back to COBOL 61. 18:09:10 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6EE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:31 sajith [~sajith@140-182-144-61.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 18:10:15 fortran 18:10:21 and even before, assemblers and autocoders. 18:11:26 Only lisp is different, allowing at first even spaces in symbol names (at first, comma was used instead of space to separate tokens in lisp sexps; this didn't last long, not even the firt implementation). 18:11:33 Sorry, I meant "identifier macros" 18:12:09 what are identifier macros (as opposed to what?) 18:12:42 Given (define-syntax foo (identifier-syntax (launch-the-missiles!))), (list foo bar baz) expands to (list (launch-the-missiles!) bar baz). 18:13:50 Ah. What is called symbol-macros in CL. Ok. 18:13:55 In Cobol you can attach a name/value pair called a condition (nothing to do with Lisp conditions) to a variable. The condition is true iff the variable has the given value. 18:14:22 What is more, you can assign true (but not false) to the condition, which assigns the value to the variable. 18:14:43 Conditions are expanded at compile time, so they are essentially highly restricted identifier/symbol macros. 18:17:45 I hesitate to ask how today's COBOL Fun Fact entered the daily agenda. 18:20:42 Because I've been reading HOPL-I papers, which is also why I'm pressing for hash tables to appear in WG1. 18:21:08 Foof, however, doesn't think my proposal is ephemeron-al enough to reopen the issue. 18:21:25 I was also talking in another channel about how there is little new in CS. 18:22:10 (If Snobol4 had hash tables in 1969, surely Scheme can have them standardized in 2011.) 18:22:38 But Scheme isn't Snobol. Snobol had hash tables, and nothing but. 18:23:34 Hash tables in WG1 feels like WG1 mission creep (as opposed to feature creep). 18:24:13 It also had fixnums and flonums, strings, (compiled) patterns, vectors, and labels as first-class objects. 18:24:24 Cobol has some nice control structures, that you can implement as a macro... 18:24:51 Alter X to proceed to Y, not so much. 18:25:03 for eaxmple: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123011 18:27:45 The latter means "In the paragraph labeled A, which must terminate with a Go To statement, change that Go To to refer to B. 18:27:45 " 18:28:49 Of course, in IBM Cobol if your code was in an overlay that got overlaid, the effects of all Alter statements were lost, because they were done by patching the machine code directly. 18:28:56 Self-modifying high-level languages. 18:29:17 That sounds like it'd be a lot more fun to write than to read. 18:29:39 (like any other self-modifying, reasoning-resistant lang) 18:30:14 Just think of how unpopular you could become with your proejct heirs, successors, and assigns. 18:30:56 Indeed, and even the highly conservative Cobol WG has marked it obsolete. 18:32:10 Daemmerung: what heirs? This would ensure your employment till 75 yo, and by that time, surely they would have switched to java, no? 18:32:14 Of course, Intercal's ABSTAIN and REINSTATE are just generalizations of this idea. 18:32:56 Abstain from