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Or is there more to it than that? 02:43:33 I think so, but I am no syntax-case maven. 02:47:20 *nods* 02:50:16 cky: i think that works, but i'm not certain 02:52:00 samth: Yeah, from the simple tests I've done the results seem identical to the built-in "quote", but it's hard to be sure for the general case. *nods* 02:53:07 certainly it's right in the "easy" cases 02:53:18 and i think it works for, say, 3d syntax 02:53:25 does it not lose location information? 02:53:45 you might have a system where quoted data is allowed to be cyclic, but other syntax not 02:53:52 elly: quote does that already 02:57:31 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 02:58:59 Inevitably so. A constant is a value, not a piece of syntax. 02:59:04 30 has no location information either. 02:59:43 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:05:59 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:08:55 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 03:23:07 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:26:11 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:17 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 03:34:24 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 03:46:30 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:47:14 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 03:48:54 alinrus [~alinrus@unaffiliated/alinrus] has joined #scheme 03:54:56 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:02:55 -!- jcowan [~John@p-74-209-24-147.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:17:00 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:21:55 asynchrony [~user@adsl-184-42-15-248.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 04:30:10 eholk [~eholk@63-235-13-3.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 04:38:15 -!- rimmjob_ [~rimmjob@99.45.100.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:49:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:50:39 rimmjob_ [~rimmjob@99.45.100.139] has joined #scheme 04:56:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:56:51 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: o_0] 04:57:15 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-12-219.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 04:59:44 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 05:02:56 -!- eholk [~eholk@63-235-13-3.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: eholk] 05:11:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:11:52 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:15:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:17:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:19:04 eholk [~eholk@63-235-13-3.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 05:20:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-146.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:23:05 -!- rimmjob_ [~rimmjob@99.45.100.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:27:05 rimmjob_ [~rimmjob@99.45.102.166] has joined #scheme 05:27:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-146.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:05 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 05:54:33 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 05:58:30 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 06:01:57 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:05:38 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 06:07:45 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 06:08:10 Hi 06:08:24 how do i list all the functions defined? 06:08:57 nataraj: There's no portable way to do that, at least in R5RS. 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[~Feeock@net-93-149-53-147.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:54:24 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-130.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:56:33 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:59:30 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08:29 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-65-184.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 11:11:42 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:18:53 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 11:20:26 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:21:07 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: zZzZzZz] 11:25:26 xwl [~user@123.108.223.27] has joined #scheme 11:25:28 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:31:00 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 11:31:29 Hi 11:31:36 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 11:31:56 how do i find the value of a variable defined earlier? 11:32:29 Ex; (define ledport gioa) , i want to print the value of 'ledport' 11:36:18 Just type `ledport' or `(display ledport)'. 11:36:33 (At a REPL) 11:36:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-131.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:18 -!- xwl [~user@123.108.223.27] has left #scheme 11:40:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 11:41:04 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:46:57 fds, thanks 11:48:25 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:17 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 11:53:13 -!- mithridates [~mithridat@142.167.229.211] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:55:36 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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#scheme 19:11:10 bluephoenix47 [~bluephoen@99-70-235-79.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:27:14 wow, the guile network interface is very low-level 19:29:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-218-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:31:35 minion: chant 19:31:35 MORE BRAINS 19:31:53 yeah, that 19:31:56 minion: MORE BSD SOCKETS 19:31:57 bsd sockets me harder 19:31:59 hey, lisppaste must be back w/ us, too 19:32:04 rudybot: later tell snord ford 19:32:04 minion: memo for snord: offby1 told me to tell you: ford 19:32:04 Remembered. I'll tell snord when he/she/it next speaks. 19:32:23 who was complaining about rudybot's "later" being broken? It works fine! 19:32:34 -!- offby1 is now known as snord 19:32:36 w 19:32:36 snord, memo from rudybot: offby1 told me to tell you: ford 19:32:39 oh, thanks 19:32:42 -!- snord is now known as offby1 19:33:06 needs more indirection. 19:34:07 low-level interfaces are nice because they don't need documentation. you point people to "Understanding TCP/IP, Vol. XVII," then laugh cruelly when they forget to call setsockopt() or its ilk. 19:34:11 elly, what's low-level about it? Do you have to assemble TCP/IP packet headers yourself? 19:35:11 Riastradh: no; it's just BSD sockets 19:35:41 if I need to know about inet-{aton,ntoa}, as a rule, your interface is low-level 19:36:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-218-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:37 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:36:43 Hmm... Why do you need to know about those? The BSD socket interface is pretty high level in the sense that it provides a pretty uniform abstraction of networking behaviour characteristics (socket types) and choices of network (socket domains). 19:36:50 Is it missing getaddrinfo, or an analogue thereof? 19:37:04 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:37:31 offby1: My guess is that you just couldn't stand minion's queue holding a message for snord forever... 19:37:35 it has 'make-socket-address', which packs a struct sockaddr 19:37:57 it does have getaddrinfo, but you have to unpack it yourself 19:38:28 Unpack it yourself? 19:38:54 say '(socket (addrinfo:fam ai) (addrinfo:socktype ai) 19:38:55 (addrinfo:protocol ai))' 19:38:59 according to the docs, anyway 19:39:13 Daemmerung: So what is that "one of the big commercial Scheme consultancies"? 19:39:48 What's wrong with that, elly? 19:40:33 it's gross, Riastradh 19:40:52 eli: {}. I think. 19:40:53 I prefer Perl's magical (socket "www.google.com" 80) 19:41:11 Gross? 19:41:15 yes 19:41:19 as in not pretty 19:42:01 *eli* 's still trying to figure out Daemmerung's joke 19:42:11 Empty-set. Sorry. 19:42:36 Well, elly, it's not clear what that should do. 19:42:48 Remember that getaddrinfo returns a chained list of addrinfo records, not just one. 19:43:00 Daemmerung: Ah, I thought that it was a reference to some java thing. 19:43:09 I was bemused at the idea of a Clojure consultancy being "big" (for some small value of big). 19:43:39 Riastradh: SOCKET, in my universe, should try the first one, then the second one, then the third one, ... 19:44:06 elly, sure. But when any one of them fails, what should it do? 19:44:26 try the next one 19:44:28 Or, if all of them fail, what should it do? 19:44:33 toss an exception 19:44:40 or return #f or something 19:44:42 For which one? 19:44:46 Daemmerung: yeah, I'm enlightened now. 19:44:59 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 19:45:05 if all of them fail, (error "No reachable addresses for host ~a") or whatever 19:45:18 I'm likely to want to see diagnostic information for all of them if they all fail. But maybe I also want incremental diagnostic information -- e.g., if the first fails because it's an IPv6 address and something has timed out. 19:45:35 (because of a broken upstream 6to4 router, e.g.) 19:45:41 also, is anyone here going to ? 19:46:35 Riastradh: you might want that, but I don't think I want that :P 19:47:01 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:47:15 ...high-level interface with an optional #:on-error callback 19:47:37 My point is that it's not at all clear what the right thing for most applications to do here is, so it's perfectly reasonable to ask you to call SOCKET yourself with the contents of the addrinfo record. 19:48:03 what Daemmerung said? 19:48:27 What does that callback do, exactly? 19:48:34 elly: 19:48:43 eli: well, yes :P 19:48:49 Is it actually easier to use the callback than just to write the conditional yourself? 19:49:34 elly: (And samth may come to, given that he organized it.) 19:49:45 Certainly, for your particular application, it's straightforward to write (define (open-socket host-name service-name) (any (lambda (ai) (socket (addrinfo:fam ai) (addrinfo:type ai) (addrinfo:protocol ai))) (getaddrinfo host-name service-name)). 19:49:49 -!- bluephoenix47 [~bluephoen@99-70-235-79.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:49:57 it's true 19:50:00 mmm, any. 19:50:01 ...ahem, with the appropriate call to CONNECT, of course. 19:50:45 *elly* RSVP'd 19:51:07 It's tempting to choose a particular application and then assume that its requirements are the only requirements of an abstraction, and thereby to choose something that is much too `high-level', i.e. overspecialized. The consequence of this effect is that most Scheme systems have totally stupid networking capabilities at best. 19:51:39 I guess 19:53:38 aw, my partner doesn't want to come to RacketCon :( oh well 19:55:43 elly: Not a big fan of parens? 19:55:44 Would be a pretty dilute con if it were partner friendly 19:56:11 "Here, honey, talk to the nice strangers for six hours while I geek out." 19:56:26 :) 19:56:27 hee 19:56:33 my partner is a software engineer too, Daemmerung :) 19:56:46 she'd like to learn Scheme but is presently busy with Haskell 19:57:09 My tiny mind boggles. 19:57:23 why? oO 19:57:36 *Daemmerung* is rotated 90 degrees on all three axes from his wife 19:57:44 ahh 19:57:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-141.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:57:56 my partner and I are very alike in a lot of ways 19:57:59 complementary skillsets and all that 19:58:27 she claims it is a lesbian thing :P I do not really understand what she means by that 19:58:52 I know a fair number of matchy-matchy same-sex couples, so yeah, I dig 19:59:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:59:43 I mean, we met at work, so :) 19:59:48 anyway, maybe I will drag her to the next one 19:59:53 are they always held at NEU? 20:02:42 Always? Isn't this the first one? 20:04:12 Riastradh: I agree that it is a good idea to provide a lower-level single connect interface, but it is also nice to provide a separate convenience interface that will cycle through the addrinfo objects and connect to each one in turn. in the common case it prevents the user from having to distinguish between transient socket errors (connection refused, no route) and fatal ones 20:04:17 elly: Yeah, traditionally, all of them were held at NEU. All 0 of them... 20:04:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-141.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:43 eli: oh :P 20:05:08 Traditionally they were also held on Mars. 20:06:30 But Barsoom U lost funding 20:09:28 hrm 20:10:11 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 20:10:30 does Racket have a crypto library?the 'openssl' collect just seems to be for SSL sockets 20:12:43 planet.racket-lang.org ctl-F "crypt" 20:13:18 ah, excellent 20:13:19 thanks :) 20:13:27 did it work?? 20:14:00 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:14:07 I didn't try it yet 20:15:21 a lot of what's out there is pretty old. 20:15:45 but the untyped folks probably have something. 20:17:47 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 20:32:50 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 20:34:13 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:21 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #scheme 20:34:40 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5-dev] 20:35:14 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 20:36:05 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #scheme 20:40:27 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:41:06 -!- tab1ta [~tab1ta@host209-40-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:41:43 -!- ohwow [~oh@www.nig.gs] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:22 -!- PreciousMetals [~Heart@unaffiliated/colours] has quit [] 20:52:22 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 20:53:35 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 20:53:45 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-96-250-3-60.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:53:54 tab1ta [~tab1ta@95.238.46.7] has joined #scheme 20:54:42 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 20:55:41 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:59:01 mithridates [~mithridat@142.167.229.211] has joined #scheme 21:19:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:24:15 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@pool-68-161-137-73.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 21:36:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 21:44:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:45:45 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:00:35 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #scheme 22:02:10 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 22:07:59 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:11:51 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 22:13:11 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@63.142.200.228] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 22:21:28 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 22:21:55 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f768a86.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:22:04 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbeda0b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 22:41:18 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-236-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:44:17 ASau [~user@95-26-236-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:45:30 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-65.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 22:55:41 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:57:09 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-58-65.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:51 copumpkin [~pumpkin@user-12hcrs5.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 22:58:51 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@user-12hcrs5.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:58:51 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 23:23:39 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:08 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 23:25:00 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:31:33 eholk [~eholk@64.134.230.72] has joined #scheme 23:40:04 -!- tab1ta [~tab1ta@95.238.46.7] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:14 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:44:11 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen_away 23:44:49 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 23:45:59 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-133-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:56:31 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 23:57:14 -!- mithridates [~mithridat@142.167.229.211] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]