00:13:18 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:15:23 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:44 meanfish [~bill@76.73.221.195] has joined #scheme 00:23:44 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:35:38 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 00:47:07 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 00:49:37 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #scheme 00:49:53 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 00:49:53 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 01:09:49 Textmode [~boneidle@adsl-syd-2-23.ozonline.com.au] has joined #scheme 01:22:19 -!- meanfish is now known as angrytuna 01:26:15 -!- Arafangion [~arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:46:08 aisa [~aisa@74-93-1-121-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 01:51:43 Arafangion [~arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 02:33:41 -!- Arafangion [~arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34:57 Arafangion [~arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 02:38:24 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:43:54 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:51:58 -!- hogeo [~hogeo@KD210230163150.ec-userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:24 zarus [~zarus@129.89.198.245] has joined #scheme 03:03:33 Is there any way for me to cast a rational as a float in Scheme? 03:03:57 zarus: exact->inexact 03:04:04 rudybot: (exact->inexact 1/3) 03:04:05 cky: ; Value: 0.3333333333333333 03:04:38 Thanks. Also, (* 1.0 1/3) 03:04:52 rudybot: (+ 0.0 1/3) 03:04:52 jonrafkind: your sandbox is ready 03:04:53 jonrafkind: ; Value: 0.3333333333333333 03:04:57 -!- Arafangion [~arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:04:59 Right, but exact->inexact makes your intentions much clearer than the other alternatives. 03:05:07 Sure. 03:05:21 there was some reason that I use + 0.0 over exact->inexact but I can't remember why at the moment 03:05:28 Slow continued fraction convergence is slow. 03:05:39 Arafangion [~arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 03:06:00 By the time it reaches maximum recursion depth, pi'll be correct to like 9 decimal places. :'( 03:06:15 rudybot: (atan 0 -1) 03:06:15 cky: ; Value: 3.141592653589793 03:06:22 zarus: ^-- that's how I usually get pi. 03:06:30 thats a good trick 03:06:37 yeah 03:06:46 rudybot: (acos -1) 03:06:46 cky: ; Value: 3.141592653589793 03:06:59 How do you get more decs? 03:07:00 That works too. But I've done some profiling and on my computer at least, the atan version is faster. 03:07:05 zarus: You don't. :-) 03:07:10 :'( 03:07:20 Floating point is, well, inexact. 03:07:25 There's nothing much you can do about that. 03:07:47 But I'm using scmutils, doesn't it have arbitrary precision? 03:08:03 Uh, uh, uh...*has never heard of scmutils* 03:08:18 It's a classical mechanics simulator based on MIT scheme. 03:08:25 why not use rationals directly? 03:08:42 zarus: Okay, so it's used for, say, SICM. 03:08:54 *cky* has not read SICM, so can't comment further. 03:08:58 Because when you call (pifracs 2000), the number's too big to enter into any calculator. 03:09:14 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has joined #scheme 03:11:12 Here's a question for macro experts, regarding a matter of...taste. I'm trying to implement SRFI 89 for Guile, as I've mentioned previously. I need to match keywords. I have two options: 1. Modify Guile's psyntax.scm to allow keywords in syntax-rules patterns to be matched. 2. Use syntax-case's fender to explicitly check for keywords. 03:11:53 I'm not entirely sure that 1 is feasible at all, to be honest. I'm not very experienced with macros yet. ;-) 03:11:58 isn't that what the literals aer for in syntax-case? 03:12:20 Oh, no, SRFI 89 keywords are not the same as literals. :-) 03:12:35 The former is for doing named parameters. 03:12:44 The parameter names are keyword objects. 03:13:08 you mean they exist in a separate namespace? 03:13:18 or they are actually values I guess 03:13:51 Well, in some Scheme implementations keywords are first class. In others (like Racket), they are not. But since I only care about Guile for this implementation, we can assume they're first-class, yes. 03:18:33 zarus: Ten decimal places of  are sufficient to give the circumference of the earth to a fraction of an inch, and thirty decimal places would give the circumference of the visible universe to a quantity imperceptible to the most powerful microscope. 03:19:32 not precise enough. 03:23:02 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:10 Well, it's relevant, since a lot of other numbers are a lot more relevant to pure mathematics and yet are less studied. 03:26:12 can anyone confirm that Gambit has defmacro? 03:27:10 before I go through the trouble of installing it 03:30:15 Praetor: Trouble? sudo aptitude install gambc 03:30:30 Praetor: But, I just checked for you. 03:30:33 It does have define-macro. 03:30:56 Heh, I should know; SRFI 89 was written by Gambit's implementor, and its reference implementation uses define-macro. 03:31:35 cky: thank you, sir. 03:31:38 :-P 03:31:57 it's a shame that #gambit is so dead 03:32:12 Well, #scheme is where it's happenin'. ;-) 03:32:54 I wanted to know if the gambit folks plan on taking define-macro away from their implementation 03:32:59 heh 03:34:13 they're one of the few schemes to keep it, and by keep it I guess I just mean "have it" 03:34:23 Nah, unlikely. Though, using define-macro makes you very old-fashioned. :-P 03:34:59 (Unlikely that they'll remove it, I mean.) 03:35:21 Guile also has define-macro, but in Guile's case it's actually implemented as a syntax-case macro. :-P 03:35:29 well, what can I say, I'm old-school. :) 03:35:59 wow, guile wrote define-macro from syntax-case? 03:36:16 if they only used standard, we should use that to bring defmacro to all schemes 03:36:48 standard scheme, I mean 03:38:15 Praetor: http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Defmacros.html 03:39:13 Praetor: The bottom paragraph says that define-macro will stay in Guile, for compatibility with existing code, but Guile itself will use less and less of it. 03:39:14 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:11 Praetor: But if you read more carefully, you can then see why many seasoned Schemers avoid define-macro, and see its absence as a feature, not a bug. 03:40:12 heh, they were also bitten by the syntax-* bug :) 03:40:38 oh I understand the debate, but I have different opinions 03:41:00 I'll do some research laterto find out how they accomplished the feat of writing defmacro in terms of syntax-case 03:41:36 Re different opinion, what's your opinion of explicit renaming? 03:41:58 Because to me, explicit renaming is about as close to "traditional" macros as you can get while still having a decent shot at hygiene. 03:43:51 yes, it's a good compromise, but I haven't seen it well implemented yet, or gaining popularity. I think I've actually seen a defmacro written in explicit renaming macros before 03:45:00 Well, Chicken uses it, and Chicken is pretty widely used as far as I know. 03:45:25 But yeah, most implementations I've come across use syntax-case. 03:46:10 chicken has explicit renaming macros? hmm.. 03:46:11 Chibi uses syntactic closures, which is another way to do hygienic macros, but I don't know anything about syntactic closures, and can't comment on how they compare with explicit renaming or syntax-case. 03:46:42 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 03:47:00 syntactic closure shouldn't be more mysterious than the name suggests. if it's that simple, then that's probably the simplest way to do hygiene and still have defmacro 03:47:37 but thanks for the heads up on Chibi, I'll take a look 03:47:42 Right, but I haven't had a chance to see how it's "done", whereas I've looked at Chicken macros and have an idea how explicit renaming is done. 03:47:45 Cool. :-) 03:48:22 ER is somewhat complicated; I really don't think there's much to macros, but schemers keep trying to perfect it :) I'm not against it, mind you, just commenting on the situation :) 03:48:31 *nods* 03:48:53 Both SC and ER are pretty lightweight in comparison with syntax-case. :-P 03:49:43 oh, definitely! 03:49:57 I've always had to lookup syntax-case, every singles time I'm going to use it. 03:50:03 Hehehehe. 03:53:02 gtg now. thanks for the help, dude. 03:54:37 -!- Praetor [c913423c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.19.66.60] has quit [] 03:56:11 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:41 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 04:04:57 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:36 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 04:12:08 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:21:55 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:34 can I somehow expand an sexp to see, for example, how a (let ...) is expanded to a lambda+invocation? 04:35:00 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:35:20 penryu, it's implementation dependent, but it's probably `expand', `macroexpand', `macro-expand' or something like that. 04:36:02 oh. yeah, I'm using racket right now. 04:36:08 I'll try them. thanks. 04:36:53 penryu, then, it's expand. 04:36:55 or expand-once. 04:37:08 or drracket's macro stepper. 04:42:11 -!- Arafangion [~arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:50:42 how would I use it? I'm not familiar with syntax objects. 04:50:50 er, I'll just load up drracket. 04:54:15 penryu, oh, right, it returns a syntax object. I usually use drracket that lets me see its content. Use `syntax->datum'. 04:54:33 rudybot, (syntax->datum (expand '(cond (#t 1) (else 2)))) 04:54:34 DT``: ; Value: (if (quote #t) (let-values () (quote 1)) (let-values () (quote 2))) 04:55:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:57:39 rudybot: (syntax->datum (expand '(let ((t (not #f))) t)) 04:57:40 penryu: I think it is because shell is echoing my commands before it executes them, and resync-dirs is trying to expand "dirs" as a path 04:58:14 rudybot: (syntax->datum (expand '(let ((t (not #f))) t))) 04:58:14 penryu: your r5rs sandbox is ready 04:58:15 penryu: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: syntax->datum in module: 'program 04:58:43 rudybot, (syntax->datum (expand '(let ((t (not #f))) t))) 04:58:43 penryu: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: syntax->datum in module: 'program 05:00:34 am I in a different sandbox? 05:00:56 rudybot: init racket 05:00:57 penryu: your sandbox is ready 05:01:02 rudybot, (syntax->datum (expand '(let ((t (not #f))) t))) 05:01:02 penryu: ; Value: (let-values (((t) (#%app not (quote #f)))) t) 05:01:46 rudybot: init 05:01:47 penryu: your sandbox is ready 05:01:55 rudybot, (syntax->datum (expand '(let ((t (not #f))) t))) 05:01:56 penryu: ; Value: (let-values (((t) (#%app not (quote #f)))) t) 05:02:33 rudybot: botsnack 05:02:33 penryu: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: botsnack in module: 'program 05:02:37 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:09:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:11:39 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:58 Arafangion [~arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 05:33:09 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-126.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 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has joined #scheme 08:51:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 08:54:01 why are the arguments of callback function in Gui items so arbitrary? 08:54:30 i mean they have no sense and they aren't used inside the function even. 08:55:44 What GUI toolkit? 08:56:04 gui.ss of drracket 08:56:19 (or drscheme) 08:58:58 oh 09:00:11 Over-eager design maybe. 09:00:34 ? 09:02:25 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfdd54.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:02:35 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbecf78.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 09:02:49 Spec in all the things that you might need and go from there 09:03:21 choas [~lars@p578F6E45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:06:16 i've found this behavior even in some lambda expression it's not defined in htdp 09:08:38 (perhaps it is unimportant) 09:16:28 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbecf78.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:16:38 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfc49f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 09:18:16 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:21:42 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 09:24:17 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 09:30:47 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 09:33:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:36:15 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41:27 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 09:42:50 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:46:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 10:00:16 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:02:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-192.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:03:37 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 10:04:42 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:10:30 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 10:12:57 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:15:30 pjb, cky, ecraven: CLX implements X11. 10:16:11 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:22 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 10:30:41 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: zZzZzZz] 10:47:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123119 10:47:42 there is a problem with the callback function 10:48:03 "lambda: found a `lambda' expression that is not a function definition" 10:48:37 i though the content of the lambda was actually a function definition 10:49:32 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 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joined #scheme 14:32:22 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:41:51 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-125-232.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:50:23 user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has joined #scheme 14:57:44 f8l [~f8l@87-205-64-197.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 14:57:46 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FE3B4BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:05:47 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 15:11:45 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:14:00 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6E45.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:17:06 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-125-232.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 15:21:27 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:24:26 I just read Sussman's "Robust Design through Diversity" and now I feel bad about my job 15:25:54 Good! 15:26:14 -!- framling [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:26:20 framling [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:26:59 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 15:27:52 -!- vk0 [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:28:17 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:28:27 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:12 -!- finnrobi [finnrobi@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:29:41 qebab [finnrobi@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 15:29:42 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:30:48 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 15:31:48 lorenzo [~lorenzo@net-93-150-27-10.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 15:31:51 hi guys 15:31:58 I have a question 15:32:25 I want to learn scheme, but I don't know good boot to start learning 15:32:44 A friend raccomend me to read SICP 15:32:45 Fortunately, this channel's topic lists a few! 15:32:56 another How to design program 15:33:09 wich you raccomend? 15:33:11 sicp is a good book to start learning with. 15:33:24 ok thanks 15:33:26 I would recommand sicp. 15:36:04 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:36:33 -!- lorenzo [~lorenzo@net-93-150-27-10.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:56 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-125-232.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:38:02 vk0 [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has joined #scheme 15:41:11 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:50:58 tupi [~david@189.60.162.202] has joined #scheme 15:53:50 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:56:48 -!- DerGuteMoritz [~syn@85.88.17.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:57:55 DerGuteMoritz [~syn@85.88.17.198] has joined #scheme 16:12:46 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 16:26:52 elly: however, Sussman's reflection only applies to large scale projects, requiring (and therefore budgetting) high reliability. Try to explain a customer that he will have to pay ten times the price of your competition because you will write the same software in five different ways, and combine them to avoid bugs and brittleness... 16:27:03 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:27:38 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfc49f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27:48 pjb: I work at Google :) 16:28:00 ah then, right, it applies perfectly. 16:28:06 Google seems to love diversity, just of a different kind. 16:29:42 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f77b20c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 16:29:53 It seems that contemporary user software is destined to be disposable. 16:35:08 worse is better 16:35:11 *elly* shrugs 16:35:32 elly: On which note, I had a dream this morning where my current workplace is cutting everybody's wages, and I was like screw this, I'm applying to Google. :-P 16:35:47 (There's a Google office about 40 minutes' drive from home. Not the ideal commute, but could do in a pinch.) 16:35:52 heh :) 16:35:57 it is a nice place to work, to be sure 16:36:13 :-) 16:41:00 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:34 ASau [~user@95-28-41-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:45:20 mads- [~mads@pdpc/supporter/active/mads-] has joined #scheme 16:47:29 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:48:07 Daemmerung [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 16:50:28 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:53:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:56:10 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:00:03 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 17:00:48 tab1ta [~tab1ta@host7-211-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 17:01:09 Hello 17:01:31 anyone knows how to write a callback function with an argument? 17:01:41 (lambda (arg) ...) 17:01:58 tab1ta: if you leave before reading the answers, there's no point. 17:02:10 in drscheme/drracket IDE for scheme (teachpack gui.ss and draw.ss) 17:02:37 pjb, i'm sorry it wasn't my fault they were waiting for me.. 17:02:54 Lambda arg works ? 17:02:59 let's try 17:03:29 tab1ta: you may leave the window open when you leave your computer ;-) 17:03:59 yes it "should" be the best option 17:05:06 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:47 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has joined #scheme 17:13:42 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-149-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:18:09 http://paste2.org/p/1500836 17:18:36 (it's too much time that i get this error and i can't understand why) 17:18:41 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:51 *tab1ta* feels stupid 17:19:49 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-192.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:21:42 tab1ta: That one seems pretty obvious: what's the message you're trying to draw? 17:24:30 the label of the buttons 17:24:43 is the message i'm trying to draw 17:24:56 It's clear that it just wants a plain string. :-) 17:25:34 maybe it is 17:25:58 but i cannot give the string to the lambda function as an argument 17:26:05 it just doesn't take it 17:26:15 and if i try tu build a second function 17:26:17 to* 17:26:37 out side 17:26:42 it gives the same error 17:31:26 anyone has anyn idea of why? 17:32:15 No idea what you are talking about. You. Must. Be. Concrete. CONCRETE examples of "give" and "just doesn't take it." 17:32:38 ok 17:32:42 right sorry 17:32:51 Nobody knows anything about what you are doing and seeing other than what you type here. 17:33:30 Daemmerung: tab1ta also posted a paste URL too, but I didn't spend a lot of effort deciphering the code. 17:33:49 cky: I looked at that, but was not enlightened 17:33:56 *nods* 17:36:45 you see, the lambda argument is changed here http://paste2.org/p/1500849 and the error it reports is changed even.. 17:37:04 it doesn't take the argument 17:38:18 i have to find a way to take the string and pass it to the function, as argument, but there is not a text-contents which gets the string content of the label of a button structure in the gui teachpack.. 17:38:48 if you want i can explain the whole program to you 17:38:52 it has a list 17:39:09 and transforms the list of symbols in a list of button 17:39:17 for a gui window 17:40:16 All I really want are pronoun antecedents. Which string, which function, which "lambda argument"? 17:40:27 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 17:40:52 Who defines `make-message'? 17:40:52 list of symbls is defined as "pad" 17:41:13 the function wich transforms it in button is called guitables 17:41:41 the lambda argument is used to create the callback function of every button. 17:41:55 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #scheme 17:42:05 choas [~lars@p578F6E45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:42:20 I do not see your "lambda argument." 17:42:43 this callback function should take the symbol (or better string) of the list pad and display it in the display side of the gui window 17:42:56 that's all i assume (perhaps i'm missing something) 17:43:13 -!- user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has left #scheme 17:43:18 (lambda (first r) (draw-message display (first r))) 17:43:29 (first r) is the argument 17:43:55 at least it should be a string but the interpreter sees it as a coupple of arguments 17:43:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:44:11 (lambda (first r) ...) is a procedure of two arguments. 17:44:25 ok 17:44:43 The error message says that it expects a procedure of one argument. 17:45:09 I would recommend that you refresh yourself with the definition of `make-button'. 17:45:35 no i 17:45:43 i solved the problem 17:45:56 thanks for letting me speak about it.. 17:46:18 *tab1ta* thinks irc is a treasure 17:46:29 That's called a teddy bear solution. You talk to the teddy bear that sits on top of your compy, and the problem solves itself. 17:46:42 :-) 17:47:35 *Daemmerung* has a stuffed Bulbasaur that his nephew gave him, many years ago 17:48:52 the teddy bear doesn't say you that you're saying incomprehensible thing 17:49:24 i swear 17:50:38 Sometimes you have to explain it to the bear two or three times before the bear solves it for you. 17:51:00 That bear can be sort of slow, at times 17:51:14 *bremner* prefers a rubber duckie. Better in the rain. 17:51:46 Daemmerung: I keep looking for a canonical web page that describes that. 17:51:48 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:52:09 I use the phrase, people look at me funny, and I want to point them someplace to show that I didn't just make up this weird phrase. 17:52:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:53:05 I wish I remember where I first heard it. 17:53:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy_bear_solution ;-) 17:53:41 (It's waiting for offby1 to write it.) 17:56:26 bremner's amanuensis seems more canonical. "Rubberducking" or a "cardboard programmer" according to c2. 17:57:13 (speaking about enlightenment and encyclopedias, and it's relation with the teddy bear solution) 17:58:14 however i've to go now 17:58:20 thank you all 17:58:26 \quit 17:58:29 -!- tab1ta [~tab1ta@host7-211-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:58:58 Daemmerung: When I first started wondering about the phrase, I searched c2, since I thought I'd got it from there, but didn't find it ... I'll look again 17:59:37 http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RubberDucking 17:59:56 also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging apparently 18:00:10 no mention of my Bulbasaur 18:01:10 yeah http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CardboardProgrammer seems close enough. 18:05:38 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:10:59 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:11:01 masm [~masm@bl16-149-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 18:14:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-188.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:21:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-188.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:24 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 18:36:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-221-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:46:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@184-195-37-100.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #scheme 18:48:11 aisa [~aisa@74-93-1-121-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:49:07 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:49:55 I prefer Robert Deck Debugging: I pass by Robert's and leave my program on his deck so that he can debug it. 18:50:08 HG` [~HG@p5DC04826.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:52:25 keenbug [~daniel@p4FE3B4BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@184-195-37-100.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:56:55 hey offby1, stupid git q - I typed "git fetch," it hummed for a while and apparently changed some files, but "git status" subsequently tells me that my branch is behind origin/master by 620 commits (which explains why I'm not seeing any recently advertised changes). What obvious step am I skipping? 18:57:14 *Daemmerung* is too old to retrain, apparently 18:57:35 do you want to `git pull'? 18:57:44 mmmmmaybe 18:57:57 *Daemmerung* git helps hurriedly 18:58:31 crap. Apparently I do. Thanks, ohwow 18:59:09 :) 18:59:14 np 19:02:17 Daemmerung: git pull is the same as git fetch + git merge. 19:03:13 Daemmerung: So supposed you're on the master branch, and your remote is named origin. Then, "git pull origin master" is the same as "git fetch origin && git merge origin/master". 19:03:38 -!- hogeo [~hogeo@KD210230163150.ec-userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:06:07 I have been happily fetching without merging for an embarrassingly long time. Explains a lot. 19:06:25 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-149.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:06:30 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-149.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:06:51 Didn't touch git for a year, never really knew it last time around; apparently forgot what little I did know. 19:07:07 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:08:51 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:09:27 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:09:45 :) 19:10:00 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-149.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:10:04 like most things, you gotta use git regularly to gain -- and keep -- proficiency. 19:10:15 I, e.g, am regaining proficiency in perl after a hiatus of many years 19:10:51 So 2011 will be a bad year, eventually. Condolences. 19:11:02 *Daemmerung* quietly weeps 19:18:33 s/git/syntax-case/ ;-) 19:19:08 I read Dybvig's paper on syntax-case and it seriously warped my brain. 19:26:23 -!- kuribas [~user@94-227-91-193.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:32:32 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:39:57 realitygrill [~realitygr@184-195-37-100.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #scheme 19:41:02 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:41:29 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 19:44:42 I practice more cargo-cult macrology than I really should admit on a publicly logged forum. 19:45:28 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04826.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:45:33 *cky* nods understandingly 19:46:01 anyone use scwm? or any scheme-ish wm? 19:46:23 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 19:46:56 Used to use stumpwm, but it didn't do anything for me that ratpoison didn't already do (at 8x the image size) 19:47:30 Took that machine to the recycling center just last week, so I'm no use 19:50:02 hrm. ok. good to know. 19:50:58 xmonad here :/ 19:51:06 haven't learned haskell yet tho 19:51:09 that's not a happy smiley 19:51:24 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 19:51:49 I remember one time i set my list of virtual desktops to [1,...] 19:51:59 and it froze 19:52:03 I'm running awesome-wm on my linux box. I am having some mixed luck running stumpwm on same. 19:52:14 ohwow: hah. is that an infinite list? 19:52:34 yes 19:52:42 apparently XMonad is not that lazy 19:53:10 well, it probably worked until it came time to instantiate said virtdesks. 19:53:39 Textmode [~boneidle@adsl-syd-2-23.ozonline.com.au] has joined #scheme 19:53:52 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:54:11 I'd heard about someone using stumpwm and/or clfswm for managing OSX's X11 clients (in place of the default quartz-wm), but am looking for more information on that. 19:55:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-221-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:17 Hm, clfswm is new to me. But I hardly define state-of-the art. 19:57:38 *penryu* carbon-dates Daemmerung 19:59:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@184-195-37-100.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:59:48 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 20:00:47 awesome-wm is too much for the basic window management I need in X11.app, and I'm not a fan of lua. 20:04:21 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-49-6-99.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 20:05:03 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:07:03 Daemmerung, how do you do cargo cult macrology? 20:07:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 20:07:46 jewel: I think if you take other people's macros and tweak them, rather than writing your own from scratch, then that's one form of cargo cult macrology. 20:08:08 Well, depending on whether you actually understand the macro fully. :-) 20:08:12 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:08:19 If you do, then it's not cargo cult. :-) 20:09:01 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 20:09:51 I thought cargo cult parsing referred to using regular expressions instead of a parsing tool 20:10:13 So I though cargo cult macro usage would be hacking a macro expander by hand 20:10:19 instead of using syntax-case or whatever 20:10:29 I dig up the last macro that I wrote that halfway approximates what I want, then poke at it with a sharp stick until it seems to work. About every three years I write an original macro. 20:10:41 I see 20:10:43 jewel: It comes from this phrase: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult 20:11:22 It means something like `doing something by imitation rather than understanding'. 20:11:27 Most of my syntax-case usages occur sufficiently sparsely that I can't keep that paged into core. 20:11:43 fds, yes I know about John Frum 20:12:22 One of these days I'll reread Dybvig, really 20:19:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20:47 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:51 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@109.74.204.224] has joined #scheme 20:22:04 -!- shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:22:53 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f77b20c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:23:05 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfde30.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:23:15 djcb`` [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 20:23:28 shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has joined #scheme 20:24:45 -!- djcb` [~user@a88-114-88-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:27:27 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 20:31:58 ijp [~user@host109-153-24-247.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 20:48:23 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:34 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 20:51:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:52 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-49-6-99.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #scheme 21:01:15 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 21:25:43 -!- f8l [~f8l@87-205-64-197.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:26:12 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-125-232.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:26 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:36:40 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-125-232.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:36:53 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:37:16 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:13 HG` [~HG@p5DC04826.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:56 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:47:04 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04826.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48:54 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-129-72.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 21:50:59 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:57:13 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6E45.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:57:16 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FE3B4BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:12:43 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:14:40 -!- shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:16:23 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 22:19:25 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:20:49 mithridates [~mithridat@142.167.229.211] has joined #scheme 22:24:17 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:50 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 22:38:56 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:20 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Client Quit] 22:45:31 penryu, I used to use scwm years ago. I've been slowing attempting to bring it back to life. 22:46:12 penryu, I usually use awseome on my laptop. 22:46:55 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:54:21 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 22:58:34 why is it wrong in scheme? (DEFINE SQUARE (LAMBDA (x) (* x x))) 22:59:57 mithridates: scheme doesn't define what happens with uppercase letters. 23:00:12 rudybot: (define square (lambda (x) (* x x))) 23:00:13 pjb: your sandbox is ready 23:00:13 pjb: Done. 23:00:19 rudybot: (squar 5) 23:00:19 pjb: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: squar in module: 'program 23:00:22 rudybot: (square 5) 23:00:23 pjb: ; Value: 25 23:00:50 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: --> Put something intelligent here when I'm more bored <--] 23:01:14 ok let me try that 23:02:28 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: GTG! D:] 23:04:38 hah it worked, I should watch brackets 23:10:57 No you shouldn't; Emacs should. 23:10:59 ;-) 23:12:08 shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has joined #scheme 23:14:35 fds: I use run-scheme mode and it shows me but I still should watch it and fix it 23:19:38 mithridates: add paredit, it's a minor mode that helps a lot with parenthesis. 23:19:53 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ParEdit 23:21:26 great , Thanks! 23:22:17 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-149-135.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:24:21 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-38-244.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:36:18 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-47-66.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 23:39:01 Nightwolf [~Nightwolf@clientssh1.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #scheme 23:39:03 hi 23:39:59 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-98-81-129-72.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:40:40 i have to implement filter using only the lambda calculus... is anybody here able to do that? :D 23:44:26 once I implemented an usable subset of Scheme in -calculus to solve a programming challenge. It was fun. 23:52:24 jcowan [~John@p-74-209-24-147.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #scheme 23:55:00 I'm trying to decide whether I think WG1 Scheme should support control of port buffering, or whether that should be left to WG2. I've pretty well worked out *how* it should be done, but not whether. 23:55:30 Anyone have insight into that? WG1 is supposed to serve the needs of embedded programmers, and my sense is that they probably care about buffered vs. unbuffered I/O quite a bit. 23:57:12 Apparently Chibi Scheme has the fastest I/O of all Schemes: http://code.google.com/p/owl-lisp/wiki/OwlBench :) 23:58:31 Cool 23:58:39 jcowan: As I said before, ports should all _have_ buffering by default, and the default buffer size should be implementation-dependant, and that should be the optimal setting for 99% of all programs. 23:58:51 Is implementation-dependent allowed to equal 0? 23:59:23 s/allowed/size allowed 23:59:35 Sure, though I'd assume that would rarely if ever be optimal. 23:59:57 -!- mithridates [~mithridat@142.167.229.211] has left #scheme