00:00:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 00:02:28 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:11:39 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-202.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:18:56 aalix [~aalix@75.85.176.185] has joined #scheme 00:26:08 klutometis: Which docs? The chibi-scheme manual was made with my own program using scribble syntax. irregex, fmt and hato are using mistie until I rewrite them. 00:26:18 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Restarting Emacs...] 00:27:39 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:31:20 foof: I was thinking of hato; by mistie, I take it, you mean ? 00:31:58 Are you going to rewrite them in scribble; and, if so, have you released the program? 00:32:39 The scribble program I use is installed as "chibi-doc" along with chibi-scheme. 00:33:25 It's ironically not documented, but you can look at the chibi.scrbl source. 00:33:29 Thanks; are you using a default mistie filters? And why is scribble preferable to mistie? 00:33:34 (Sorry for the 3rd degree.) 00:34:23 Oh, hato is actually written in TeX, using slatex. That's why it looks identical to SICP. 00:35:05 -!- aalix [~aalix@75.85.176.185] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 00:35:21 mistie is no longer being developed 00:35:34 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:36:02 Oh, ok; slatex makes sense. 00:36:53 It looks like there's no totally satisfying mechanism for documenting Scheme; but slatex and scribble look reasonable. 00:37:14 org-mode with its literate programming facilities (i.e. babel) is not bad, either. 00:37:57 Lets you go to pdf over {xe,}latex; has highlighting and even fragment execution. 00:39:10 Yeah, I'm still not happy with the systems out there, but now that I have my own I have only myself to blame - and then improve it :) 00:44:22 Thanks, foof; I'll take a look and maybe give you some feedback. 00:47:24 olikea [~null@206-248-152-151.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:51:09 -!- rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-167-175.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:44 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:01:24 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:02:40 -!- tdignan [~tom@pdpc/supporter/student/tdignan] has left #scheme 01:06:20 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08:01 rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-167-175.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 01:10:10 O_o I didn't know that rubybot runs on EC2. Makes sense, I guess. 01:11:15 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 01:17:33 cky: it used to run on my plain ol' desktop machine, but we'd run the vacuum which would pop the circuit breaker ... 01:18:03 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 01:23:09 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:23:38 Is that expensive? 01:23:58 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 01:24:22 it's a "micro" instance, so it's I think $20/month 01:24:37 offby1: Hahaha, I see. :-) 01:25:04 or the disk would fail, as it is in fact failing now 01:25:13 :-O 01:39:40 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:39:43 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-202.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:41:38 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 01:45:15 knob [~knob@66.50.245.229] has joined #scheme 01:51:06 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:51:11 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 01:54:24 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@189.33.195.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:55:33 -!- knob [~knob@66.50.245.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:05:04 hba [~hba@189.130.23.205] has joined #scheme 02:11:43 pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c358.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 02:13:31 rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 02:20:43 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 02:31:22 rubybot! 02:32:44 penryu: What, you want to write a Ruby bot? :-O 02:33:35 no, I already have one (forked from a friend's repo); I was just referring to the typo above. 02:36:30 D'oh! My bad. 02:36:59 It doesn't help that D and B are so close on my keyboard. 02:37:25 (Same horizontal position, adjacent rows.) 02:37:28 Dvorak is no excuse! 02:37:39 penryu: Lol. 02:37:47 penryu: Are you a Dvorak typist too? 02:38:04 "no, but some of my best friends are Dvorak typists." 02:38:20 :-) 02:38:30 *cky* has been using Dvorak for almost 8 years. 02:38:34 it was especially funny when he was just learning. half his lines consisted of "NRN" 02:38:45 Hahahahaha. 02:39:32 I <3 typing on Dvorak, BTW. 02:39:41 Certainly my friends who use it love it too. 02:39:46 I'm just afraid dvorak will screw up my vi keys. 02:40:01 I use vi a lot using Dvorak. Yes, some habits will have to change, but it can be done. 02:40:07 J and K are still adjacent to each other. 02:40:17 H is still to the left of L, albeit on different rows. 02:40:21 do you remap hjkl => dhtn? 02:40:24 No. 02:40:45 I use the real letters H, J, K, and L. 02:40:50 yeah, I'd probably just give up vi and move entirely to emacs if I went dvorak. 02:40:56 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #scheme 02:41:04 Some would say that isn't a bad thing either, though I do use vi more than Emacs. 02:41:23 The only time I use Emacs is when I'm writing Scheme code (and would benefit greatly from Paredit). 02:41:26 yeah, it would actually be a good excuse to ditch vi, to which my fingers are helplessly addicted. 02:41:34 Heh, lol. 02:41:54 (Actually, that would be "hehlol", since I pronounce it as one word in real life.) 02:42:10 I <3 vi. 02:42:22 "hah! lawl." 02:42:23 Me too. I still use it frequently even though I've used Dvorak for a long time. 02:42:39 I have a New Zealand accent, so "lawl" sounds nothing like "lol". 02:43:13 To me, "lol" sounds like "roll". 02:44:18 oh, my friends and I only say it out loud when being sarcastic, a la "har har" 02:45:00 and it just comes out "lol" to rhyme with American "wall" 02:45:21 I.. don't know if I've ever heard anyone pronounce it out loud aside from us. 02:46:28 I was horrified this past semester when a girl I'd been talking to who was quite coherent in real life emailed me and started using "lol" in place of all sorts of punctuation including ',' '.' ';' 02:47:44 last NZer I talked with had already been living in the US for 30 years, so her accent was faded, whether she liked it or not. 02:49:00 cky: is your keyboard physically dvorak, or do you just remap the keys somehow? 02:51:01 penryu: I've been in the US two years, so hopefully my accent will keep for a long time. 02:51:13 penryu: My keyboard is just remapped (using built-in OS facilities). 02:51:46 penryu: I always tell people that when I write my Scheme-based OS, it will use Dvorak layout by default (qwerty layout available as supplemental download). 02:53:26 penryu: Every mainstream OS (except mobile OSs :-() has built-in support for using Dvorak. 02:53:44 I would _love_ to have Dvorak support on my Android phone. 02:53:58 penryu: Isn't that a form of dyslalia known as "lollalia"? Or maybe "lollogy", since it affects writing. 02:54:43 cky: It's possible with a jailbroken iPhone, ironically. 02:54:56 klutometis: I bet. :-) 02:55:15 -!- strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:55:52 Key-capless happy hacking keyboard here, by the way; Dvoraking on QWERTY causes me cognitive dissonance every time I accidentally look down (even peripherally). 02:55:55 cky: which OS, if I may ask? 02:56:16 mmm. I <3'd my HHK. until my neighbors complained about the noise. 02:56:30 penryu: Weird; what did you replace it with? 02:56:35 penryu: I currently use GNU/Linux. 02:56:49 *cky* currently uses a Microsoft Natural 4000. 02:56:55 My wife used to complain with Das Keyboard; but that thing is fucking absurd. 02:57:01 cky: gnome kbd mgmt? or do you just manually hack the xorg.conf? 02:57:25 penryu: Debian has a thingy that sets up the console keyboard layout, _and_ propagates it to the X server config somehow. 02:57:43 klutometis: I've standardized on the apple keyboards, no matter the OS used. 02:58:13 cky: huh. I'm usually just happy if it'll let me remap Caps->Ctrl in console (a la freebsd) 02:58:35 penryu: My wife thinks Apple keyboards are purty (but she's solidly a PC person, so not sure if she'll buy one). :-) 02:58:55 penryu: I have ctrl:nocaps in my keyboard config, but not sure if it applies to console. 02:58:58 Lemme test. 02:59:22 It does! Impressive. 02:59:28 penryu: Interesting; yeah, Apple keyboards that allow you to rearrange the keycaps are fantastic. 02:59:30 well, sure, they look nice. but I just like that they have a short stroke length and pretty solid tactile feel 02:59:55 penryu: I just have XKBOPTIONS="ctrl:nocaps" in my /etc/default/keyboard. 03:00:10 Debian takes care of ensuring that the key is remapped appropriately, both for console and X. 03:00:21 cky: yeah, I definitely have ctrl:nocaps in x. 03:00:40 I never saw that with debian. maybe I just never bothered to look through the keymaps. 03:01:00 Well, now you know. :-) 03:01:06 hooray! 03:01:38 I use primarily osx and awesome-wm 03:01:53 klutometis: I've never even looked. do apple kbds support moving keycaps? 03:02:03 as in, easily? 03:02:17 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:29 penryu: If you could easily pry off keys and swap them around without damaging them, my wife would probably get one. 03:02:48 penryu: I'm a total touch-typist, so I never bothered to physically rearrange the keys, but it helps my wife a lot. 03:03:11 (She touch-types most of the time too, but on the odd occasion when she does look at the keys, having the wrong labels show up confuses her a lot.) 03:03:25 yeah, I touch-type qwerty. 03:03:42 I used to (and was one of the fastest qwerty typists at work), before I decided to switch. 03:03:46 I just got bored of using qwerty. ;-) 03:03:59 my friend (the NRN one) actually rubbed off all the qwerty letters and wrote in dvorak in permanent marker. 03:04:10 These days, though, I can't touch-type qwerty any more. I can still hunt-and-peck at 55 wpm. 03:04:35 Whereas my Dvorak speed is usually between 100 and 120 wpm. 03:04:43 nice 03:04:55 I know people who type at that speed in qwerty too, so. :-) 03:05:10 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:05:20 yeah, me too. or rather, I know people who USED to be able to touch-type 90+ in qwerty. 03:07:53 ;-) 03:08:32 cky: what's your SoC? 03:09:14 Pardon my ignorance, but what SoC are you referring to? 03:09:21 sorry. Scheme of Choice? 03:09:57 :-D 03:10:11 I regularly use Racket and Guile, and sometimes Chicken. 03:10:21 Soon I'll play around more with Chibi too. 03:11:21 what are they're relative strengths, in your opinion? 03:13:30 Racket is very mature, and has lots of libraries. Guile has good POSIX integration, and has lots of innovations, more coming each day (I track the Guile git repository frequently). Chicken can compile to C. 03:13:35 *shrug* 03:14:08 Both Racket and Guile make it easy for you to implement non-Scheme languages that run in their respective runtimes. 03:14:24 I want to try my hand at writing a GolfScript interpreter for either (or both!) of those implementations. 03:16:07 what does racket offer for event-processing? 03:17:04 I have no idea. I better let Racket experts (there are some here on this channel) answer. 03:17:49 cool. 03:19:25 hrm. I think I'll see how rudybot handles it. 03:23:41 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: --> Put something intelligent here when I'm more bored <--] 03:24:41 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 03:24:52 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:32:25 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:32 aalix [~aalix@75.85.176.185] has joined #scheme 03:41:23 penryu: Yeah; I've successfully done it on the Macbook Air and the Apple Bluetooth Keyboard with this simple thing: . 03:41:41 cky: See above. 03:45:34 Better link: . 03:45:50 klutometis: Nice. 03:46:18 klutometis: So are you swapping the keys because you use an alternative layout? Or just to clean them, etc.? 03:46:43 -!- zk is now known as zeeky 03:46:57 s/zeeky/zedkay/ 03:47:06 what 03:47:18 Seriously! Z = zed, K = kay. :-) 03:47:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zed 03:48:17 -!- zeeky is now known as zeekay 03:48:32 cky: I swap it to Dvorak on all my Macbooks; I touch-type, like I said, but QWERTY nevertheless causes a disturbance in the force when it catches my peripheral vision. 03:48:45 zedkay would have been better 03:49:44 Where "disturbance in the force" is some kind of ephemeral dissonance. 03:49:50 klutometis: I had issues remapping Caps to Ctrl on the apple bluetoof kbd. 03:49:54 klutometis: You're in the same boat as my wife, then. *nods* 03:50:02 penryu: Oh, yeah; that sucks. 03:50:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-213.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 03:50:13 klutometis: Always nice to meet other Dvorak users. :-) 03:51:06 klutometis: it really sucks, because it was THIS CLOSE to being almost a perfect kbd 03:51:22 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:51:46 penryu: What, you mean it doesn't work even with ctrl:nocaps? :-O 03:51:58 cky: Yeah; it's funny how little typos, etc. give it away. "Oh, ASDF? Don't you mean AOEU?" And you almost never see "teh" from a Dvoracist; must be a QWERTY thing. 03:53:04 cky: I only tried it with osx, and the bt kbd has some sort of anti-accidental-press protection that makes you hold it down for ~500ms before it will register a keybpress for the CAPS key. 03:53:13 Our button-mashing filenames always look like "aoeunths"; it's kind of distinctive. 03:53:18 which for a chord key like ctrl is ... prohibitive. 03:53:30 klutometis: Actually I've occasionally done teh too. Key-mashing...oetkuhd,.cughdeotnuxhnoeuthnoesjhnsoh.untoehu (like you say, a dead giveaway). :-) 03:53:36 penryu: That's horrible. 03:53:52 penryu: Yipes! 03:54:10 it's only the bluetoof kbd. none of the others have this. 03:55:09 penryu: What Racket offers for event-processing depends on what you mean by "event-processing". 03:55:15 yeah, pretty sure "teh" is distinctly qwerty. a classic case of left/right async input 03:55:50 eli: I'm looking for something similar to eventmachine in ruby 03:56:30 penryu: In that case, what Racket offers for event-processing depends on what "eventmachine" is. 03:57:15 it's cool. I'm not sure I can explain better than that at the moment, as it's time to watch Doctor Who with the wife. 03:57:30 I'm going to have a look in rudybot. loop.rkt looks promising. 03:58:28 penryu: (Translated: you should really explain what it is rather than force people to google and dig through docs...) 03:58:35 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: !?] 03:59:18 eli: I know what you meant. my response translated into "I'm not really prepared to explain what it is right now, so I'll rtfm and perhaps be better prepared to ask later" 03:59:56 the eventmachine was mostly a gamble that someone knew what it was already. it was a long shot, admittedly. 04:03:58 penryu: Skimming through the docs, it looks like a trivial exercise given basic TCP support and macros. 04:06:11 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:06:39 most likely. but this would be the first time I've done as much in any language, much less one I'm still picking up. 04:13:37 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:14:19 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-137-91.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:16:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-202.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:16:06 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 04:25:33 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c358.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:36:23 Holy shit; did you guys see this? 04:37:06 Written in the inimitable, majisterial patois of 1960's computer science. 04:38:10 s/j/g/ 04:39:47 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #scheme 04:41:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-137-91.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 04:45:26 It describes, it seems, some unimplemented language ISWIM; a predecessor, in some sense, to Haskell. 04:46:12 He was aware of Lisp; and, indeed, the J-operator seems to bear some relation to call/cc. 04:46:25 Weird. 04:46:58 Indeed, call/cc lists Landin's J operator as one of its inspirations. *nods* 04:47:14 Oh, no shit? Yeah, I'm just discovering this gem of a paper. 04:47:30 klutometis: Have a look at R5RS's call/cc section. :-) 04:49:01 Wow, dude; there you go. I love it when geniuses are modest enough to credit their forebears. 04:49:31 :-) 04:56:44 -!- rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:59:51 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:59:58 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:12:50 -!- shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:25:02 What's a J-operator? 05:25:14 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable072.213-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: --> Put something intelligent here when I'm more bored <--] 05:27:26 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 05:38:44 shardz [~samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has joined #scheme 05:43:15 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:43:36 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbed0ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:43:45 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f769e5e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 05:50:09 ohwow: "J operator is a programming construct that post-composes a lambda expression with the continuation to the current lambda-context." 06:08:53 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:38 if I read that correctly, roughly (define (J f) (call/cc (lambda (k) (lambda args (k (apply f args)))))) 06:12:54 or more neatly with the appropriate preamble, (define (J f) (call/cc (lambda (k) (compose k f)))) 06:21:21 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:22:23 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.161.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:23:40 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 06:25:15 republican_devil [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:25:41 So, can J operator be expressed as a combinator? I googled a little bit but didnt find anything :( 06:42:44 aspect: That's pretty sweet, actually. 06:47:47 btw, I'm not claiming to know what wikipedia means by "post-compose"; the second sentence is what I'm relying on 06:49:08 masm [~masm@bl19-155-5.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 06:49:18 pjb__ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 06:52:56 -!- aalix [~aalix@75.85.176.185] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:53:33 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:59:53 -!- hba [~hba@189.130.23.205] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:59:55 -!- pjb__ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: from my iPad] 07:02:26 actually, that's not right at all 07:03:34 Landin's use permitted escape procedures roughly in the form: (define (frob x) (let ((return (J id))) .....) 07:09:41 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:10:14 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 07:10:42 ASau` [~user@89-178-250-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 07:10:55 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-146-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:27 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-213.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:15:56 aalix [~aalix@75.85.176.185] has joined #scheme 07:18:35 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 07:26:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-208-189.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:31:08 -!- aalix [~aalix@75.85.176.185] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 07:37:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-208-189.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:48 chiyam [~chiyam@122.167.116.216] has joined #scheme 07:43:15 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:46:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:51 -!- monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hello] 07:55:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:56:28 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 08:02:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-217-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:14:56 homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-211-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:17:14 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-164-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:30:43 pjb__ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 08:31:57 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 08:33:37 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-67-59.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:49 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:49:17 -!- djcb [~user@82.131.116.185.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:23 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:49:36 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-43-212.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 09:12:25 damnit 09:12:34 it is not cool being sick the 3 last days before my exam 09:13:54 -!- homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-211-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:19:43 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-211-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:21:06 wbooze [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-211-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:29:17 stress... 09:29:31 This is the exam I've been least stressed for 09:29:43 but, yeah 09:29:48 unconscious stress... 09:30:40 Stress isn't the main reason - I've gotten sick once the last semester because of stress, and I was stressed out of my mind :) 09:30:58 but! I am starting to get the hang of this Scheme thing, so I might do ok, after all 09:31:12 I just need to get some more lambdas down 09:46:38 Lambdas are easy. It's the other stuff, like syntax-case macros, that get me. :-P 09:57:13 Dre [~Dre@166.pool85-54-128.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 10:02:24 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:04:22 -!- chiyam [~chiyam@122.167.116.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:01 -!- pjb__ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: from my iPad] 10:29:48 -!- elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:12 elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 10:36:02 -!- EbiDK [3e6b7ac3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.107.122.195] has left #scheme 10:40:46 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:42:42 MengZhang [~MengZhang@222.66.175.224] has joined #scheme 10:42:59 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:04 -!- MengZhang [~MengZhang@222.66.175.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:51 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #scheme 11:29:59 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f769e5e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:30:08 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbecd53.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 11:34:14 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-172-163.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 11:34:19 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-127-195.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 11:51:35 rotty: fmt patch applied (belatedly) 11:52:06 -!- republican_devil [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:57:51 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:17:10 my friend get an error message when he says ([14:14:04] John:define board '((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9))) 12:17:15 ...I'll try that again 12:17:37 my friend get an error message when he tries (define board '((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9))) in DrRacket with R5RS 12:17:47 "procedure application: expected procedure, given: 1; arguments were: 2 3" 12:18:12 it's apparently on the mac version - it works for me. Anyone has any idea what that's about? 12:18:15 Looks somehow like an incorrect QUOTE 12:18:25 yeah, I thought about that, too 12:18:29 Are you using the correct quote character? 12:18:36 Or rather, is he or she? 12:19:07 Try '(+ 1 2), does that display (+ 1 2) or 3? 12:20:25 works in a new file, and he even tried pasting what works for me 12:21:49 did he redefine `quote'? 12:22:06 rudybot, (define quote (lambda (x) x)) 12:22:07 DT``: your r5rs sandbox is ready 12:22:07 DT``: Done. 12:22:10 rudybot, '(1 2 3) 12:22:11 DT``: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: 1; arguments were: 2 3 12:22:22 he got: # from '(+ 1 2) 12:23:00 I'm pretty sure he redefined quote somewhere. 12:23:07 especially since it works in a new file. 12:24:12 he did (define 'name 12:24:38 well, that gets expanded to (define (quote name) 12:24:40 that would redefine (quote name) 12:24:47 rudybot, (define 'x x) 12:24:48 DT``: Done. 12:24:50 rudybot, '2 12:24:51 DT``: ; Value: 2 12:24:53 hah 12:24:54 rudybot, 'x 12:24:54 DT``: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: x in module: 'program 12:25:00 rudybot, quote 12:25:01 DT``: LETS! 12:25:04 . 12:25:07 rudybot, eval quote 12:25:07 DT``: ; Value: # 12:25:16 rudybot, eval quote 12:25:17 Articate: your sandbox is ready 12:25:17 Articate: error: eval:1:0: quote: bad syntax in: quote 12:25:23 I see 12:30:44 Strangely enough, CL forbids conforming programs to redefine CL operators... 12:31:15 DEFUN/DEFMACRO: QUOTE is a special operator and may not be redefined. 12:31:34 I wonder if in a way, CL is not more student friendly... 12:31:59 At least a warning wouldn't be a bad idea 12:32:10 in the sense that both students and CL like mutation ;) 12:33:12 pjb, IIRC you can't redefine anything that's in the CL package. 12:33:23 bremner_: CL doesn't like mutation of its operators... 12:33:29 point. 12:34:38 pjb, HtDP beginner: quote: this name has a built-in meaning and cannot be re-defined 12:34:47 (the language) 12:35:24 that's meant to be stundent/beginner-friendly, but then you don't have the full power of Lisp/Scheme/Racket. 12:36:21 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:38:15 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 12:52:43 I've had fasiculation on my eye all morning 12:52:49 and I don't mean like my eyelid 12:53:07 I mean my eye is twitching :p 13:03:18 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 13:05:23 HG` [~HG@p579F7DAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:18:54 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:22:58 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:24:59 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 13:28:04 Articate: what about discussing that on #ophtalmology ? 13:30:42 I didn't really expect a Scheme program to fix that, no 13:34:05 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:47:11 (define something (some-stream arg (delay something))) 13:47:30 I dunno if it's my sinus infection or stuff like that that's making my head hurt 13:48:28 another "let's do this together so I know I'm understanding it" moment! 13:51:12 rudybot: (define (jingle->stream jingle) (define (j-stream jingle jin) (if (null? jingle) (force jin) (cons-stream (car jingle) (j-stream (cdr jingle) jin)))) (define jin (j-stream jingle (delay jin))) jin) 13:51:12 Articate: Done. 13:52:10 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:53:32 so. Here we return jin. jin will call j-stream with the original jingle and itself delayed. If we didn't delay it, we would send an evaluated jin, which would eval j-stream, and we'd get no where. 13:53:42 right? 13:55:14 j-stream is straight-forward since we send it the remaining jingle to make a stream of, and then the next part of the stream is the next part of the jingle, UNLESS there's no more jingle - then we force jin, which will in essense just restart j-stream with the full jingle 13:56:04 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 13:57:48 lolcow [~lolcow@196-210-170-119.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:58:18 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 14:01:23 but that's just a messy way of doing 14:02:02 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-170-119.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:02:59 rudybot, (define (jingle->stream jingle) (define (stream remaining) (if (null? remaining) (stream jingle) (cons-stream (car remaining) (stream (cdr remaining))))) (stream jingle)) 14:02:59 Articate: Done. 14:05:36 I'm glad we all agree! 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I was just wondering if there was a way of unloading a library or reloading one 16:42:48 pjb: I've just started with ypsilon, I'm felxible on implementations 16:45:01 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-83.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:45:22 bremner_: its more that I want to reload a library without affecting the state of the scheme process otherwise 16:45:33 ah, that sounds hard. 16:45:50 copumpkin [~pumpkin@user-12hcrs5.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 16:45:50 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@user-12hcrs5.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:50 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 16:45:51 It would be easy in CL because the libraries are so dynamic 16:46:29 it's easy in guile: ,reload (my library) at the repl 16:47:34 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 16:48:24 To be honest, I can just never be bothered to write proper tests and just do too much stuff at the REPL 16:49:05 I shouldn't put so much stuff in the scheme processes transient state, I should probably write it into the library test cases (which don't exist) as I go 16:49:32 then restarting the process and (import (whatever)) and I'm back where I was 16:50:18 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:53:31 carleastlund [~cce@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:01:43 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:03:52 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:14:00 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-138-69.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 17:17:13 -!- danishman [~kvirc@0x573a5c37.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:21:18 kephas [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-47-128.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 17:23:54 -!- nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-77-140.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:26:50 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:38 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 17:28:27 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-57-102-171.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:30:41 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 17:30:54 minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:34:39 HG`` [~HG@p5DC055D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:37:50 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC0567D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:09:37 lambda time! 18:09:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-138-69.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:10:36 so, (define (var x)) is shorthand for (define var (lambda (x) ...)) which is a variable bound to a function. 18:11:24 when we do (define var (lambda (x) (lambda (y) ...))) that's the same as.. 18:11:53 a variable bound to a function that returns a function? 18:12:10 yes 18:12:32 then you can do ((var 1) 2) 18:12:54 and if we do: 18:12:55 rudybot, (define var (lambda (proc x) (lambda (y) (proc x y)))) 18:12:56 Articate: Done. 18:13:16 then the two first arguments are in the scope of the second function, since they're nested? 18:13:35 yes 18:13:52 rudybot, eval ((var + 2) 3) 18:13:52 Articate: ; Value: 5 18:14:24 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-138-69.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:15:26 rudybot, eval (var + 2) 18:15:26 Articate: ; Value: # 18:16:00 so then we can do 18:16:15 rudybot, (define add-two (var + 2)) 18:16:15 Articate: Done. 18:16:24 rudybot, eval (add-two 3) 18:16:25 Articate: ; Value: 5 18:17:53 What's the best data type if all I need to do is check if some element is there? 18:18:09 a set? 18:18:53 well it seems that there is not built-in set datatype in racket 18:19:08 rudybot, init racket 18:19:08 DT``: your sandbox is ready 18:19:13 rudybot, (set 1 2 3) 18:19:13 rudybot, eval (add-two (add-two 2)) 18:19:13 DT``: ; Value: # 18:19:14 Articate: ; Value: 6 18:19:57 o 18:19:58 hm 18:20:16 why cant i dinf it on docs.racket-lang.org :( 18:20:33 oh nevermind 18:20:36 im stupid 18:20:46 It's hidden under a thousand of `set's. 18:23:19 Articate: then try ((((var var var) +) 1) 2) 18:23:55 that hurts :( 18:24:07 rudybot, eval ((((var var var) + ) 1) 2) 18:24:07 Articate: ; Value: 3 18:24:12 ouch 18:24:39 heh 18:24:45 rudybot, eval (var) 18:24:45 Articate: error: procedure var: expects 2 arguments, given 0 18:24:55 rudybot, eval var 18:24:55 Articate: ; Value: # 18:25:51 rudybot, (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y))) + 2) 3) 18:25:52 Articate: ; Value: 5 18:28:24 rudybot, (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y))) * (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y))) + 2) 3) 4) 18:28:24 Articate: y 18:28:35 that's not right 18:29:02 rudybot, (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y))) * (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y))) + 2) 3)) 4) 18:29:02 Articate: ; Value: 20 18:29:11 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-138-69.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:42 This exam is fun. 18:29:45 :( 18:29:57 Articate: Glad to hear. :-P 18:30:08 it's even more fun hopped up on painkillers :p 18:30:28 I kind of feel like House, popping all these pills 18:30:33 "what's wrong with this function?" 18:30:47 "do a lumbar punctu.. oh, wait" 18:38:56 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-172-163.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:43:36 is there any 'display-with-newline' function? 18:44:30 (define (display-with-newline object port) (display object port) (newline port)) 18:44:46 \o/ 18:45:39 That's the best thing of Turing-complete languages, there's always a way to do anything! 18:46:05 I wouldn't want to do anything in brainfuck 18:46:27 Some do. 18:46:44 cipher [~cipher@unaffiliated/cipher] has joined #scheme 18:48:06 You just can't write xclock in brainfuck. 18:48:26 a stream is a variable and not a function! (right?) 18:48:40 (well, a variable can be a function, but you know what I mean!) 18:48:52 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:49:01 Jafet, FFI+X11 brainfuck bindings. 18:49:51 Articate, yes, it's not. 18:50:04 See, Turing probably never imagined X11. Even though it's gay. 18:50:40 Jafet: X11 is not. Turing was. 18:50:52 Articate: "variable" is a syntactic notion. In (let ((x 5)) x), the symbol x is a variable. 5 is a value. 18:50:54 X11 is *worse*. 18:51:00 (As are streams, and functions.) 18:51:19 It's not X11 that's brainfuck. X was designed in lisp, it has lisp friendly types and data structures. 18:51:25 It's FFI the bitch. 18:51:30 klutometis: ISWIM is far from being some obscure thing that noone has heard about. 18:51:38 Happily, you can easily directly connect to the X11 server, and avoid FFI. 18:51:46 pjb, you mean libX11? 18:51:47 (assuming you have sockets). 18:51:57 Yes, just don't use any library designed for C. 18:52:12 Connect directly to the X11 server, implementing the xproto. 18:52:46 There are xml files giving the formal specification of xproto. Process them to generate the scheme code needed to connect to the server. 18:53:15 (define ones (cons-stream 1 ones)) 18:53:43 (defines ints (cons-stream (stream-car ones) (add-streams ints ones))) 18:53:50 those kind of streams mess with my head 18:54:18 Assume you have (1 1 1 1 1 1 ...) 18:54:19 minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:32 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-123.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 18:54:35 yeah, I think I'm on team with them now 18:54:41 ok, so you take the first 1. You're left with: (1 1 1 1 1 ...) 18:54:43 pjb: "X was designed in lisp"? That's the first time I hear that claim. 18:54:43 it's just strange to base a stream on a stream 18:54:44 pjb, XML-XCB? 18:54:55 Now if you add (1 1 1 1 1 ...) to (1 1 1 1 1 ...) you get (2 2 2 2 2 ...) 18:55:03 Articate: Use a lazy language, it makes things much easier. 18:55:13 It's in the sources of the xproto.pdf doc. 18:55:22 no choice - exam tomorrow, eli :) 18:55:25 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-139-72.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:55:26 So you take the 2, and you're left with (2 2 2 2 ...) 18:55:41 Now you add (1 1 1 1 ...) to (2 2 2 2 ...) so you get (3 3 3 3 ...) 18:55:44 and so on. 18:55:45 Articate: For a more complicated example, which is more helpful if you follow it: (define fibs (cons 1 (cons 1 (map + fibs (cdr fibs))))) 18:55:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-83.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:55:58 I've had that one :) 18:56:03 Articate: And if you can't use a lanzy language, just pretend that there's `stream-' suffixes where needed. 18:57:21 the way I've figured it - in reality, we're adding the FIRST number of our stream (which we know is 1) since we said (stream-cons (stream-car ones) ...) and we're adding that to the first of ones to get the second number 18:57:41 which will be 1 + 1, which is 2. So we know the second number, and we're then using that to add with ones, etc 18:57:52 Articate: That's exactly the right way to think about it. 18:58:15 it's just so strange to define a variable by using a variable that's using the variable we're defining :p 18:58:33 Why? It's the same as any other kind of recursive definition. 18:58:50 because I'm not used to delayed evaluation 18:59:00 Of course, the strange thing is that these are not functions -- but if you think about how laziness is implemented, then you know that there *are* functions there. 18:59:04 when I see a definition, I figure "I know what htis is" 18:59:10 pjb: Acrobat finds no mention of "lisp". 18:59:23 Articate: Take my `fibs' example -- 18:59:36 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-139-72.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:38 The first element of the list is obviously 1, since it was consed explicitly. 18:59:42 So does the second one. 19:00:06 The third one, say fibs[3] is the first result of map, say (map + fibs (cdr fibs))[1] 19:00:30 And the first result of that map is: (+ fibs[1] (cdr fibs)[1]) 19:00:40 And that is (+ fibs[1] fibs[2]) 19:00:53 (+ 1 1) 19:00:58 Generalize that, and you get fibs[n] = fibs[n-2] + fibs[n-1] 19:01:19 yeah, we had a stream assignment where I made a general fib-stream 19:01:20 So the definition is following fibonacci very directly. 19:02:17 fib[n] = fib[n-j] + fib[n - k] 19:02:28 it was funky. 19:04:39 lagged fibonacci sequence* 19:05:09 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-139-72.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:07:07 rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 19:08:53 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:14:48 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has joined #scheme 19:15:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-139-72.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:13 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:57 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:24:40 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 19:25:22 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-139-72.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 19:40:24 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-139-72.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:45:14 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:51:29 minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:55:11 -!- djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:45 djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 20:02:50 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 20:09:02 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 20:16:21 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-211-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:37 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-211-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:18:18 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-84-44-211-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:00 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 20:24:40 -!- augiedoggie [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:25:40 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-168-112.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:12 augiedoggie [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 20:27:30 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:27:39 pothos [~pothos@111-240-170-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:27:59 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:06 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:17 rramsden_ [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:22 -!- rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31:49 -!- rramsden_ [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:10 rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 20:44:54 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:06 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:55:59 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 21:01:19 eli: Indeed; now that I think of it, ISWIM has come up now and again. Landin's paper, however, was novel to me; and evinced a kind of radiant or Apollonian genius not seen in degenerate CS publications. 21:02:27 That was, of course, the adolescence of computation. 21:15:31 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-155-5.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:14 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 21:37:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-115.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:37:12 -!- djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:15 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:38:43 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-123.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:44 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has joined #scheme 21:53:47 rudybot, (define (multi-sub . L) (if (null? (cdr L)) (car L) (apply multi-sub (- (car L) (cdr L)) (cddr L)))) 21:53:48 Articate: Done. 21:54:05 rudybot, eval (multi-sub 15 2 3 7) 21:54:06 Articate: error: -: expects type as 2nd argument, given: '(2 3 7); other arguments were: 15 21:54:17 rudybot, (define (multi-sub . L) (if (null? (cdr L)) (car L) (apply multi-sub (- (car L) (cadr L)) (cddr L)))) 21:54:18 Articate: Done. 21:54:20 rudybot, eval (multi-sub 15 2 3 7) 21:54:20 Articate: ; Value: 3 21:54:31 what. It didn't work for me :o 21:55:07 rudybot: (define multi-sub -) 21:55:08 offby1: Done. 21:55:12 rudybot: (multi-sub 15 2 3 7) 21:55:12 offby1: ; Value: 3 21:55:14 *offby1* whistles innocently 21:55:22 optimized! 21:55:45 rudybot: (multi-sub 15) 21:55:45 offby1: ; Value: -15 21:55:47 I know! Exam excersie! 21:55:56 also, that's not what multi-sub should do! 21:56:10 rudybot, eval (multi-sub 15) 21:56:10 Articate: ; Value: 15 21:56:30 I'd just (- (car l) (apply + (rest l ))) 21:56:43 I guess you gotta special-case the one-element list case 21:56:54 yes. Keep intact. 21:57:04 (+ (car l) (* -1 (apply + (rest l)))) 21:57:14 NOO, MY HEAD 21:57:18 *offby1* laughs cruelly 21:57:26 rudybot, eval multisub 21:57:27 Articate: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: multisub in module: 'program 21:57:48 oh, so when I referenced that in MY program, I referenced the wrong one I wrote earlier. Explains why it wasn't worked 21:57:52 ...wasn't worked. Wow. 21:57:54 didn't work. 22:01:37 y'know each of us has a separate "sandbox" inside the bot 22:01:44 rudybot: give Articate multi-sub 22:01:44 Articate: offby1 has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 22:01:52 Articate: now you can get my function 22:06:34 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:07:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 22:10:22 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 22:11:11 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:26 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 22:18:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:29:15 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:35 Simucal [~Simucal@24-107-2-126.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:34:31 offby1: You can also change (* -1 ...) to simply (- ...), where ... is a single value. 22:36:10 offby1: I think with gifting objects in rudybot, if the item you're giving is a simple expression (like "multi-sub"), the legend from rudybot could say "rudybot: eval (define multi-sub (GRAB))". 22:36:24 offby1: Then newbies wouldn't have to decide what to do with (GRAB). 22:37:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 22:42:37 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.101.216] has joined #scheme 22:44:41 yeah 22:44:53 patches welcome :-( 22:45:01 (i.e., that's a good idea but I'm far too lazy to do it) 22:46:21 Jesus, installing SBCL is a major task; took almost my whole flight from LA to Milwaukee. 22:46:45 I wonder if there's some proportionality between time-to-compile and the ponderousness of a language. 22:47:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:18 OMG, Slime; &c. 22:51:27 *klutometis* must resist the call to the defun-side. 22:51:54 offby1: Will do. :-) 22:55:19 klutometis: no, you mustn't 22:55:30 klutometis: Come to the Dark Side 22:55:54 *evil laughter* 22:56:13 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-16.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:57:17 zmv: I've resisted for years; God, it's full of stars, though. 22:59:39 You don't want to deal with packages, symbols, and nonreproducible compilation. 23:01:27 -!- bremner_ is now known as bremner 23:03:42 nonreproducible compilation? Really? 23:04:06 The behaviour of COMPILE-FILE is strongly dependent on the state of the image you run it in. 23:04:11 Riastradh: fwiw, I have a nearly-complete implementation of your optional.text proposal (syntax-case, but ... nevertheless): http://rotty.xx.vu/gitweb/?p=scheme/spells.git;a=blob_plain;f=spells/opt-args.sls;hb=HEAD 23:04:11 http://tinyurl.com/3ebgz97 23:05:03 Change (progn (compile-file "a") (compile-file "b")) to (progn (compile-file "a") (compile-file "z") (compile-file "b")) and the new b.fasl may be wildly different from the old one. This isn't merely because of little tiny corner cases; this is very deeply ingrained in the language. 23:05:38 what's 'defun'? 23:05:40 wow. No different than `load', then? 23:05:46 some sort of group against Scheme being fun? 23:06:08 Articate: It's what most other Lisps use to define functions. 23:06:18 WELL, THEY SUCK 23:06:21 Articate, what Scheme took out of Common Lisp. 23:06:21 Including Common Lisp, which is what is being referred to here. 23:06:42 ok, I don't really know if they suck or not. 23:07:13 Opinion is divided. :-) 23:07:22 so we can assume it is defun! 23:07:48 ok, I'm starting to get streams down 23:08:07 I suppose I should look at define-syntax next 23:09:24 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:10:00 aoh_ [~aki@85.23.168.115] has joined #scheme 23:10:00 -!- aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:14:20 this is perfect. Of course NOW the one server I need has to go down 23:14:28 alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host73.200-45-163.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 23:24:28 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-132.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:25:41 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-127-195.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25:42 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 23:30:25 somnium [~user@adsl-98-65-181-157.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:40:39 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:41:37 framling [~user@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:43:18 -!- rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:29 I was able to reach it all through another cluster. 23:43:31 I'm a genius. 23:44:32 we're all geniuses here. Or is that genies? 23:52:45 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme