00:04:23 Articate: Right, but I was away from IRC. 00:04:30 Articate: I have real life to attend to, etc. ;-) 00:05:50 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f77b44a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:06:50 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:07:09 sure, step away from giving me half an internet to pretend you have a life! 00:07:26 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f769580.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 00:09:47 -!- choas [~lars@p5792C8BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:15:00 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:17:11 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:20:10 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-194-139.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:27:53 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-146-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:20 ASau [~user@95-27-146-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 00:38:15 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:50:36 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-57-102-171.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:54:47 Articate: :-P 01:03:11 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.155.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:09:46 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:13:08 The slib db is a bad joke. 01:14:54 devslashnull [~james@ppp118-208-192-185.lns20.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:42 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:24:58 samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:35:11 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:48:35 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 02:01:45 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #scheme 02:09:00 -!- copumpkin 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quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:53 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:38:26 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:38:27 pandeiro: See if Racket is available 03:40:00 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:40:47 jcowan: it is in the arch user repo, thanks 03:43:11 -!- dsp_ [~tt@acidlab.technoanimal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:45:12 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:45:33 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 03:48:17 dsp_ [~tt@acidlab.technoanimal.net] has joined #scheme 03:49:09 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@187.105.249.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:59:31 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:24 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:11:28 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:11:31 vu3rdd 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has left #scheme 11:50:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 12:12:30 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:16:46 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 12:20:14 pjb [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 12:21:43 tupi [~david@189.60.161.65] has joined #scheme 12:30:50 -!- pjb [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:39:28 forcer [~forcer@d148185.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #scheme 12:51:30 :fist: Scheme 12:55:27 ? 12:58:21 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 12:59:55 it's hard :( 13:00:52 -!- framling [~user@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:03 so many parenthesis to keep track of 13:05:54 what parenthesis? 13:06:05 samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:06:10 lefts and rights, normally 13:06:46 what's the difference between (define (something) ... ) and (define something ...) 13:07:10 (define (something) ...) is equivalent to (define something (lambda () ...)) 13:07:40 (define something ...) defines something. 13:07:56 while the first is a procedure? 13:08:02 yes. 13:08:09 what's the second, then? 13:08:10 rudybot, (define (something) 2) 13:08:11 DT``: your sandbox is ready 13:08:11 DT``: Done. 13:08:14 rudybot, something 13:08:14 DT``: ; Value: # 13:08:15 a variable? 13:08:21 yeah, then (something) is 2 13:08:28 yeah. 13:08:31 rudybot, (define something 2) 13:08:31 DT``: Done. 13:08:34 rudybot, something 13:08:35 DT``: ; Value: 2 13:08:39 so that's a variable, then? 13:08:41 yeah. 13:09:34 ok, so 13:11:29 note that "variables" and "procedures" are not opposites. 13:11:36 a variable is a name used to remember a value. 13:11:43 procedures are merely one kind of value. 13:11:47 so are numbers, strings, etc. 13:12:09 rudybot: (define (something) "Yes, I am a procedure.") 13:12:09 *offby1: the difference is that the list procedure constructs a list of its arguments, whereas the quote procedure takes its argument and returns it unevaluated 13:12:12 rudybot: eval (define (something) "Yes, I am a procedure.") 13:12:12 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 13:12:12 *offby1: Done. 13:12:22 rudybot: eval (something) 13:12:22 *offby1: ; Value: "Yes, I am a procedure." 13:12:41 in this case, "something" is a variable, whose value is a procedure.l 13:12:47 right 13:13:14 rudybot, (define (something) (define (foo bar) bar) (define f 0) (lambda (m) (cond ((eq? m 'foo) (foo)) (eq? m 'f) f) else 'error )))) 13:13:14 Articate: Hi everyone. Have any of you read the SICP book? Or rather, just the first chapter. In it there an exercise regarding the 'if' function. I'm having trouble understanding how replacing the 'if' special-form with your own definition (using (cond)) causes a program crash. If anyone can clarify this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks. 13:13:33 hmm 13:13:41 one line coding is hard :p 13:13:59 found it :) 13:14:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:47 rudybot, (define (something) (define (foo bar) bar) (define f 0) (lambda (m) (cond ((eq? m 'foo) (foo)) ((eq? m 'f) f) (else 'error )))) 13:14:47 Articate: your sandbox is ready 13:14:47 Articate: Done. 13:15:31 rudybot, (define s (something)) 13:15:31 Articate: Done. 13:15:31 Articate, you probably want the (foo) in ((eq? m 'foo) (foo)) to be `foo'. 13:15:40 do I? 13:15:47 that's what I was gonna ask :D 13:17:24 Articate: you sometimes need to put "eval" before your scheme code when you give it to the bot. It's a bug. 13:17:27 right, because then I would use it like: ((s 'foo) variable) 13:17:42 rudybot, (define (something) (define (foo bar) bar) (define f 0) (lambda (m) (case m ((foo) foo) ((f) f) (else 'error)))) 13:17:42 DT``: Done. 13:17:54 offby1, it works for me (usually). 13:18:01 rudybot, (define s (something)) 13:18:01 DT``: Done. 13:18:06 rudybot, ((s 'foo) 2) 13:18:06 DT``: ; Value: 2 13:18:06 me too, usually. Just not all the time. 13:18:24 when you don't match the parens, or give more than one expression. 13:18:41 which means that when I say (s 'foo) it returns the local procedure, which I then use the next argument on, right? 13:18:51 right. 13:19:34 rudybot, (s 'f) 13:19:34 Articate: ; Value: 0 13:20:03 aah, I think I got what I was wondering about now 13:20:08 let's see 13:20:36 rudybot, (define (something) (define (foo bar) bar) (define (f) 0) (lambda (m) (cond ((eq? m 'foo) foo) ((eq? m 'f) (f)) (else 'error )))) 13:20:36 Articate: Done. 13:20:43 rudybot, (define s (something)) 13:20:43 Articate: Done. 13:20:57 rudybot, (s 'f) 13:20:57 Articate: ; Value: 0 13:21:43 and the (define (f)) would be useful if the value was not to be set when I defined something - because if I did just (define f 0) it would just be a local variable and not a local procedure 13:22:11 which in turn means I should do ((eq? m 'f) (f)) to return the value and not the procedure 13:22:11 it's actually a local variable bound to a procedure. 13:22:16 right :) 13:22:20 but yes. 13:22:41 the evaluated value, and not the variable, then, I suppose 13:22:49 since the variable is a procedure :D 13:22:50 parens always denote function/macro application when in expression context. (someone correct me if I'm wrong) 13:23:00 ymasory [~ymasory@128.91.39.26] has joined #scheme 13:27:33 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 13:33:25 DT``, that's correct 13:33:57 do I need a "begin" in the expression-part of cond? like: (cond ((number? m) (begin - or is it implied like in (define ? 13:34:16 implied. 13:34:31 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-178-12.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:36:41 strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has joined #scheme 13:45:00 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:00 -!- strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:48:40 could anyone take a look at this? 13:48:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122452 13:48:57 it only works if I use the "reset" function first 13:49:06 else I get this: procedure application: expected procedure, given: #; arguments were: 0 0 13:49:14 inside calculate! 13:50:40 which means that it works, so long that oper! has been set! to set-arg-and-val! and not defined as it 13:50:58 I'm guessing it has something to do with the order things is done. 13:51:02 are* 13:52:00 this is why some of us avoid mutation 13:52:16 how do you mean? 13:52:40 Articate, it works for me, with and without reset. 13:52:40 Articate: works fine for me 13:52:47 Welcome to DrRacket, version 5.1 [3m]. 13:52:47 Language: racket; memory limit: 512 MB. 13:52:47 > (define c (make-calculator)) 13:52:47 > (c) 13:52:47 0 13:53:04 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.155.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:53:22 I can't tell what it's supposed to do. 13:53:25 Unit tests would help 13:53:31 -!- forcer [~forcer@d148185.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:39 I'm using R5RS 13:54:45 cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has joined #scheme 13:55:26 so there's no smart way of using let or anything to ensure that you know things are defined before using them or something? 13:55:34 *offby1* stares blankly 13:55:51 Articate, r6rs' letrec*. 13:56:14 what offby1? 13:56:40 (with #lang r5rs, it blows up for me too) 14:02:09 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:02:50 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 14:04:14 Articate, http://paste.lisp.org/display/122452#1 14:09:13 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:18 -!- rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-167-175.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:35 forcer [~forcer@g231147139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:13:34 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 14:14:00 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:15:36 pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c0a9.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 14:16:06 -!- Zol [~Zolomon@li152-84.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:19:47 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:21:46 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c0a9.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 14:24:55 pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c0a9.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 14:28:42 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:29:37 rudybot [~luser@ec2-204-236-167-175.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 14:31:55 cool - thanks DT`` 14:32:36 -!- devslashnull [~james@ppp118-208-192-185.lns20.hba1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:58 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.161.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:11 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:54 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:10:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.215] has joined #scheme 15:11:06 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:11:29 zeekay [~zk@adsl-75-10-37-5.dsl.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:12:20 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #scheme 15:12:33 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 15:15:24 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-178-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:41 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-161-140.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:21:49 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:15 copumpkin [~pumpkin@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has joined #scheme 15:22:15 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:22:15 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:22:22 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-161-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:23:09 pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has joined #scheme 15:23:09 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has quit [Changing host] 15:23:09 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:23:34 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 15:24:25 masm [~masm@2.80.155.5] has joined #scheme 15:25:44 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-161-140.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:27:14 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:49 could anyone look at a basic scheme exercise i just did and tell me if it is correct? :) is this sort of thing allowed here? 15:30:58 sure 15:31:03 but you don't need us! 15:31:07 just run the unit tests that you wrote. 15:31:18 Oh, you say you didn't write any unit tests? 15:31:19 heheh riiiiiight 15:31:20 tsk tsk 15:31:28 why didn't you? 15:31:30 i barely know the syntax 15:31:35 they're not hard. 15:31:47 just (when (not (something)) (error "oh crap")) 15:32:15 good courses emphasize tests. 15:32:16 just sayin' 15:32:17 (unless (something) ...)? 15:32:17 anyway 15:32:18 haven't learned 'when' yet... :) 15:32:19 past it 15:32:32 paste it on e.g. gist.github.com 15:32:39 ah i used the form on the topic 15:32:58 which just gave me a blank screen lol 15:33:03 damn you lips.org! 15:33:13 oops that's a different site 15:34:12 https://gist.github.com/1006541 15:35:09 geez, this is a _perfect_ thing to test. 15:35:19 Just pick some groups of numbers, run it, and see if it gives the right answer. 15:35:24 That's all I'd do 15:36:23 i am trying to use the syntax you mentioned (when..) 15:36:30 offby1: well, probably he doesnt want it just to give a correct answer but look slick too 15:39:44 honestly i don't even know how to load this into an interpreter so i could test values 15:41:19 well, you need to get that figured out. 15:41:33 didn't your teacher tell you how to do that? 15:41:49 that's you, offby1 15:41:58 I'm not teaching any classes this quarter. 15:42:08 rudybot: eval (define (toptwosq x y z) (if (and (< x y) (< x z)) (+ (* y y) (* z z)) (if (and (< y x) (< y z)) (+ (* x x) (* z z)) (+ (* x x) (* z z))))) 15:42:09 offby1: your sandbox is ready 15:42:09 offby1: Done. 15:42:12 rudybot: (toptwosq 1 2 3) 15:42:12 offby1: ; Value: 13 15:42:19 rudybot: (toptwosq 3 2 1) 15:42:19 offby1: ; Value: 10 15:42:29 ouch 15:42:32 I see it gives different answers if the numbers appear in a different order. 15:42:34 not good. 15:42:50 on a positive note i think i wrote a good unit test 15:42:58 (there in the gist) 15:43:27 well, actually not a good unit test but semantically correct 15:43:55 that's a start 15:44:00 here's how I did it a long time ago: http://ix.io/1IE 15:44:09 found my error which was obvious, too 15:44:26 (I think I stole this idea from the ever-present Riastradh) 15:44:55 i also wanted feedback on the style just because it is so foreign to me in the examples i am looking at... is there a single convention on how to indent? 15:45:18 yes -- the convention is called "however emacs does it" 15:45:20 Yes; however Emacs indents. ;-) 15:45:22 jinx 15:45:26 Damn! 15:45:34 *offby1* punches fds on the upper arm 15:45:46 Ouch. 15:45:46 offby1: My solution is similar to yours except I use the built-in MIN instead of defining SMALLEST. :-) 15:45:56 cky: CHEATER 15:46:06 so i can't use vim either? 15:46:07 Lol. 15:46:30 pandeiro: Emacs with Paredit really does make coding Scheme much easier. So while you can use vi, you just make more work for yourself. 15:47:19 i feel like i am the guy in the road not taken here 15:47:27 (the frost poem) 15:47:28 pandeiro: vim is fine 15:47:44 You might want to check out http://htdp.org 15:47:53 But Emacs is excellent! :-P 15:48:01 it's a great introduction to computing and scheme 15:49:05 ohwow: i see, but it seems to overlap with SICM, which i've already made up my mind to read 15:49:13 pandeiro: (Psst: I do use vi for writing short Scheme programs, just because I'm much more familiar with vi than Emacs. :-P) 15:49:26 pandeiro: oh, if you are reading SICM you might enjoy SICP 15:49:29 it's in the topic 15:49:31 pandeiro: I cannot stand paredit. I don't think I'm the only one 15:49:46 i havent read SICM yet tho 15:50:12 derrr, i meant SICP 15:50:23 o 15:50:24 pandeiro: Hahaha, you should read SICM if you enjoy SICP, then. :-P 15:50:32 yea 15:50:52 cky: i see you just switched the order of the operands :) 15:51:11 :-) 15:51:22 -!- samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:51:54 is anyone familiar with both SICP and HTDP? is one better? i notice HDTP has the solutions online, so i won't need to bug people here with my naive questions... 15:52:34 hm i think HTDP's solutions are for teachers only? 15:52:48 HTDP has the advantage of working nicely with a particular scheme implementation (namely Racket) 15:52:55 SICP doesn't, as far as I know, quite work perfectly with any 15:53:05 yeah that's one of the perks of being an autodidact 15:53:05 although most probably work pretty well 15:53:22 srsly, I'd do both. 15:53:36 offby1: thank you that is very helpful... i have downloaded racket 15:53:38 getting over this hump of "how to I enter the source" and "how do I then run it" is crucial, but not that hard 15:53:52 DrRacket was designed, more or less, for you. 15:54:02 i.e., students. 15:54:12 i am scared of getting hooked on IDE's, maybe that is stupid 15:54:21 nah 15:54:29 DrRacket is bundled with racket? 15:54:30 you can easily switch 15:54:34 yes 15:54:50 yep 15:54:53 one big download 15:54:58 I use the command-line version myself 15:55:17 I use the .deb package myself. :-) 15:55:21 great, i will give that a try 15:55:21 for lisp, you really need _something_ to help with parenthesis matching and indentation 15:55:48 offby1: And that "something" is called Paredit. *grins, ducks, and runs* 15:56:17 offby1: i already had that impression... guess i just need to choose DrRacket or Emacs for working through this 15:56:30 you can use both. Emacs probably has a steeper learning curve 15:56:41 on the other hand, Emacs is useful for pretty much all editing 15:56:45 there is Geiser for Emacs to help you with racket 15:56:45 does emacs have an interpretive mode? 15:56:52 dunno what you mean by that. 15:56:58 pandeiro: geiser has REPL 15:57:05 http://www.nongnu.org/geiser 15:57:09 you mean, where it improvises a dance that somehow relates to the sad situation of the Native American? 15:57:26 offby1: i knew stallman was good... 15:57:57 I suspect you're asking "can I run my scheme interpreter inside emacs", and the answer is "yes" 15:58:00 there's lots of ways to do it 15:58:08 I favor something called "geiser" which works quite nicely with racket 15:58:18 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:59 ... 15:59:17 ok i think i am procrastinating at this point 15:59:36 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 15:59:38 appreciate all the help 16:00:51 don't feel bad; I've been meaning to learn Clojure for ... as long as it's existed, and I've never gotten past exactly these issues with it 16:01:27 offby1: oh crap that was my next task after SICP ;) 16:01:45 pdlogan [~patrick@235.sub-69-96-146.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 16:01:46 i am mostly wanting to learn how to 'think functionally' because i am apparently a crappy OOP programmer 16:01:54 OOP sucks. 16:01:56 :) 16:01:59 i hope so 16:02:04 scheme is a decent way to learn functional programming. 16:02:08 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:09 At least, racket is. 16:02:13 Haskell is harsh. 16:02:39 yeah i was looking at haskell, scheme, or clojure basically 16:02:39 Actually I do most of my scheme futzing in the simplest possible way: I write some code in a file, then I run the file from the command line. 16:02:40 That's it. 16:02:57 clojure is exciting because it promises to be genuinely useful. 16:03:09 Scheme ... scheme is nice, but it's hard to imagine it being used much in the real work. 16:03:11 world. 16:03:15 Not enough libraries for it. 16:03:18 offby1: i see but then you have access to what you've defined afterwards? in the native american dance mode? 16:03:44 ie i defined that function, but then to use it??? 16:04:21 write a bit of code that calls it. 16:04:36 remember earlier I said rudybot: (toptwosq 1 2 3) 16:04:38 like that 16:04:46 i am fairly familiar with python's REPL mode, where you have to import modules to have them in the environment... you can do the same with a scheme REPL? 16:04:52 yah i see there's an interpreter bot here 16:04:54 take a look at http://ix.io/1IF 16:05:12 to your question about importing: it depends on the flavor of scheme :-| 16:05:22 racket does imports roughly like python does. 16:05:25 (simpler, imho) 16:05:39 you can (load "file.scm") 16:05:53 but racket has Module system which is a bit more complex 16:05:53 this 'demo' is a builtin operand i take it? 16:05:53 see, I've defined my function; then I call it a few times. 16:05:56 nossir 16:06:02 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@235.sub-69-96-146.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:04 ah no nm 16:06:04 look up a few lines, I define it myself 16:06:06 i see 16:06:13 rudybot: init http://ix.io/1IF 16:06:13 offby1: error: current-directory: `exists' access denied for /usr/local/src/rudybot/ 16:06:15 bah 16:06:19 sometimes that works 16:06:31 heh i have a long road ahead of me 16:06:42 sort of, but it will probably be fun. 16:07:04 hopefully it will go better than my run at OOP at least 16:07:20 probably 16:07:23 well. 16:07:47 Plain SICP scheme is _much_ simpler, hence easier, than the typical OOP language 16:08:17 just type "racket" at the command line; that's analogous to typing "python" at the command line. 16:08:21 you get a little REPL. 16:08:30 wonderful i see that now 16:08:40 hard to do anything with multiple lines, though 16:08:44 DrRacket is better for that 16:09:09 for real short stuff, rudybot is about as good 16:10:11 i was using guile, too, since i already had it installed for some reason... is it considered crappy? 16:10:38 i havent read man pages or really studied any of this yet, just getting impressions before i set out 16:11:32 guile was my first scheme! 16:11:36 no i guess it's ok? 16:11:37 it's fine for learning 16:11:43 guile is made for embedding 16:11:45 in C apps 16:11:49 also wingo is single-handedly dragging it into the 21st Century 16:13:19 so drracket has a text editor and repl in split pane? is that how emacs/geiser work, too? 16:14:07 well in emacs you can have as much buffers/windows as you want 16:15:31 vaguely. 16:16:07 samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:20:23 pdlogan [~patrick@187.sub-72-102-206.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 16:27:46 -!- samth_ [~samth@c-24-128-51-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:34:50 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-146-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:09:22 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.155.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:24:50 offby1: 100 libraries is not enough: http://srfi.schemers.org/final-srfis.html ? 17:25:52 one MILLION libraries 17:25:57 *elly* twirls her... moustache...? 17:26:17 naw, hold your pinky to your mouth, like this 17:28:12 masm [~masm@bl19-155-5.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 17:30:32 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 17:31:40 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:55 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:35:01 republican_devil [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:35:07 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-19.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 17:38:04 offby1: for this you need to be bald. 17:40:50 dallas teis series 1-1!!! 17:41:29 yes, and ... ? 17:43:00 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@187.sub-72-102-206.myvzw.com] has left #scheme 17:43:15 where is there an nba stats web page done in scheme? 17:46:06 gavino, please go away 17:47:15 WHERE? 17:47:31 aye 17:47:34 *sjamaan* looks around hastily, hiding all the programming languages 17:48:01 sport is for nerds 17:48:20 OH THERE 17:52:45 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:53:30 sjamaan: can u let me bak into chickenand netbsd now? 17:53:37 -!- republican_devil is now known as gavino_himself 17:55:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:02:15 who are the ops here again? 18:05:44 dunno 18:05:50 When you are out in the wilderness and you meet a troll, remember these steps. 1) Hide all food, as it is bad to feed a troll. 2) Keep still and calm. Trolls are wary of preying on suspiciously quiet people. 3) Make sure someone in the party is carrying a large stick. 18:05:57 i think elly is one 18:05:59 elly, ping 18:06:01 hi 18:06:03 what's up 18:06:17 elly, am i correct in remembering that you're an op? 18:06:30 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o elly 18:06:31 lemme see 18:06:34 yes, apparently 18:06:35 yup 18:06:41 so what's up? 18:06:44 can you kickban gavino_himself ? 18:06:59 why? 18:07:07 offby1 and Riastradh can testify that he/she/it is a troll 18:07:24 also sjamaan 18:07:30 (can testify) 18:07:34 sjamaan is a fine person 18:07:47 please do not 18:10:25 all I know is that I've got him on permanent /ignore :) 18:11:35 would it be needlessly inflammatory for me to ask why, offby1? 18:12:52 he must've bored me 18:14:14 ah well 18:14:28 basically, gavino's method is to ask dumb questions of the form "can you do X in scheme", perpetually 18:14:39 for example: where is there an nba stats web page done in scheme? 18:15:12 gavino_himself: the answer is almost always 'yes, that can be done in scheme, and no, we don't know of any implementations of it' 18:15:20 I suggest using google when you have questions of that form in the future 18:15:36 how in scheme can you have tables that relate like a relational db? 18:16:04 also note the different nicks 18:16:20 ok, that's enough time spent on this 18:16:34 gavino is also known for trolling c.l.l and c.l.s 18:17:58 yeah, I saw the different nicks 18:19:18 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:20:10 does the troll race have the mage class ? 18:22:08 wrong channel :P 18:23:34 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #scheme 18:24:21 Zol [~Zolomon@li152-84.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 18:31:31 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 18:32:29 boi 18:33:14 heya jcowan 18:33:58 Hey ho, elly. 18:34:44 djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:37:20 ijp [~user@host109-154-194-139.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 18:38:13 how's life? 18:39:43 The end of a very quiet week: almost everyone in my (highly distributed) shop was attending an all-hands meeting, but I couldn't go. 18:40:16 what's an all hands meeting? boxing? 18:41:17 A meeting of everyone in some organizational unit to which you belong. In this case, everyone reporting to the Chief Architect. 18:41:52 I see thanks for explaining 18:42:07 HIBT? 18:43:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:45:44 -!- Zol [~Zolomon@li152-84.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 18:46:29 Zol [~Zolomon@li152-84.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 18:47:00 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:47:27 pdlogan [~patrick@64.134.130.8] has joined #scheme 18:50:13 C-Keen, troll? Never! 18:50:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:51:48 cky: pardon? 18:52:15 C-Keen: jcowan was asking whether you trolled him. Did you? I thought not, but maybe I stand to be corrected. :-P 18:52:34 no it was more a language barrier question 18:52:46 Exactly. :-) 18:55:35 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:55:36 elly, samth is correct: Gavino is a notorious old troll. I gave up trying to get rid of it four or five years ago. The best policy is to ignore it, as far as I can tell. 19:02:30 /ignore gavino should be compiled into all internet software... 19:02:37 -!- samth is now known as samth_pldi 19:02:40 heh 19:06:19 Mostly I don't mind being trolled; I know I'm right and that's what counts. :-) 19:06:43 But given the choice, I'd rather help someone with a language barrier. 19:06:55 I'd rather help 'em with a two-by-four! 19:06:56 *offby1* glances around nervously. 19:07:40 jcowan: I thank you for that 19:07:57 *jcowan* quietly disarms offby1 and sends him to jail, directly to jail, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 goroutines. 19:11:04 It's not worth your time to let Gavino troll you, jcowan. 19:13:41 *offby1* rails at Authority 19:14:20 What, you really wanted 20,000 goroutines? 19:15:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:09 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:20:52 ventonegro [~alex@cust.static.46-14-234-161.swisscomdata.ch] has joined #scheme 19:22:46 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:41:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:50:34 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:56:31 -!- zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:10:39 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-232-228.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 20:12:11 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-119-189.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 20:13:50 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-167-19.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:33 -!- elly has set mode +q *!*@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net 20:26:20 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has left #scheme 20:36:24 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.24.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37:44 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@128.91.39.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:46 astrokatie [~Katie@142.68.168.20] has joined #scheme 20:46:11 Did you guys see this, by the way? 20:46:36 It's a bizarrely self-congratulatory piece by GvR; is it still necessary to "sell" Python in this day and age? 20:47:47 rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 20:49:06 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:08 more GvR on anything? Going to read it right now. 20:49:13 Yes... because /someone/ has to convince newcomers to use a language that's ugly, annoying to maintain, and incredibly slow. 20:49:41 Doesn't seem that self-congratulatory to me, he's just relating a couple of anecdotes... 20:50:50 amoe: Maybe it was this quote that got me: "This to me is a confirmation of Python's enduring depth and breadth: it is as far away of a one-trick language as you can imagine." 20:50:51 the dropbox bit got my goat a bit but that's for different reasons 20:51:56 I think the python community do salivate over it a bit too much 20:52:48 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:59:18 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable020.240-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:04:14 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:04:25 oh man 21:04:32 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 21:04:32 scheme is so compact it scares me 21:05:28 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-119-189.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:09:10 What: Riastradh in my Tarsnap? 21:09:56 Maybe I vaguely recollect that, actually. 21:10:00 As to the whole python vs scheme - it's hard to get further apart, I have to admit 21:10:01 Articate: What do you mean? 21:10:07 I did python last year, and scheme this year 21:10:10 I mean this, kulto 21:10:13 W.r.t. to compact, that is. 21:10:19 I know :> 21:10:49 I'd say they're quite similar in compactness 21:11:09 At least compared to some other languages vs scheme 21:11:14 Articate: On the contrary: if Python and Scheme were polar opposites, it would be refreshing. As it is, Python is almost a degenerate Lisp; with castrated lambdas, etc. 21:11:15 Is it any more bizarre to be self-congratulatory about Scheme, klutometis? 21:11:17 (define (multimap proc . seqs) (if (null? (car seqs)) '() (cons (apply proc (map proc seqs)) (apply multimap (cons proc (map cdr seqs)))))) 21:11:33 s/more bizarre/less bizarre/1 21:11:40 (or, s/to be/than being/1) 21:12:06 that's scheme to me. It takes longer figuring out what to do than it takes to write it 21:12:15 JoelMcCracken [~user@pool-70-17-163-58.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:12:34 python, or well, imparative programming - on the other hand: you know what you need to do, just write the code 21:12:50 (And yes, I was the one who found the two missing characters in Tarsnap that caused a serious bug.) 21:12:53 it's not hard to traverse a matrix in python. Doing it like this is scheme takes some training 21:13:46 Riastradh: I'd say so. It is true, though, that you occasionally expose my axiomatic or dogmatic Scheme-bias. That Scheme-bias has become almost physiological; I don't know how to critique it. 21:15:03 Articate: in python, would you do that with a nested for loop? 21:15:14 Naw. 21:15:35 O (n^2) no good 21:17:55 I'd say python and scheme are very high vs very low level, although that's not really correct. I'd suppose we need a horisontal scale, too! 21:18:00 Probably the python and scheme versions would require same amount of thought for me then. :) 21:18:30 it seems so hard to do anything besides the right thing in Scheme 21:18:51 kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:18:52 that sounds like a good thing to me... 21:18:58 -!- JoelMcCracken [~user@pool-70-17-163-58.pitt.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:19:06 in terms of efficiency, of course! 21:19:13 in terms of getting shit done - not to me 21:19:14 yes that's definitely a big win. when I have used python duck typing particularly gets on my nerves. 21:20:41 I'd just say it requires less proficiency to do good things with python than it does to do anything with Scheme 21:21:14 well, what's better, a buggy program written in less time, or a correct program written in more time? 21:21:16 Articate: Do you mean in terms of library support? 21:21:33 which means that Scheme is a perfect language for professionals - but I feel we still need languages like python to have less awesome programmers do cool things 21:21:49 library support is one thing. That's a double-edged sword for python 21:21:54 I like generalities. They're always true, including this one. 21:22:10 i just started learning scheme, coming from python 21:22:27 mostly just learning for fun, i like scheme a lot but I'm not sure I'd ever do anything serious with it 21:22:39 Articate: why is the library support a double-edged sword, out of interest? 21:22:51 because people use it as a crutch? 21:22:56 for one 21:23:04 the good part is that more people can do more things in less time 21:23:21 Articate: The lack of a strong typing system for scheme is a major drawback for professional use, imo. 21:23:28 the bad part is that code normally comes with an API 21:23:41 I agree, Obfuscate - in an ideal world :) 21:23:50 that is, my thoughts are based on an ideal world! 21:24:40 and you sort of take the code for granted. If it says "email.send("my@address.com")" you just sort of nod and continue 21:24:52 I still use scheme to hack together quick scripts, but for any large projects, I turn to something else (not python). 21:25:20 what do you mean by 'code normally comes with an API'? 21:25:21 Obfuscate: Why is that, btw? I've been trying to motivate myself to get on the strongly-typed bandwagon; but can't seem to overcome the activation energy. 21:25:42 amoe, I suppose I mean the manual for the libraries used 21:25:46 ah ok 21:26:06 I doubt I'll use Scheme for anything than exercising my programmer brain when I'm done 21:26:14 with this class I'm having 21:26:28 I'm extremely glad I took the course, but yeah 21:27:47 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:53 klutometis: With small (mostly self-written) projects, it's usually pretty easy to look at dynamically typed code and figure out the general flow and whether there are any mistakes made with passing objects with the wrong types around. 21:28:41 could Racket's contract system be easily ported to RnRS? 21:28:47 I never used it personally. 21:29:02 I wrote a game for python last semester 21:29:04 But quite often I put explicit type checks at the start of procedures. 21:29:14 klutometis: However, if others are writing the code you're working with, or you write enough code that you start to forget what you've written, the time spent auditing becomes a major cost and I'd much rather add some explicit type declarations. 21:29:22 even though it was horribly oversimplified from what a game would be in any proper setting, I learnt a lot of valuable stuff while doing it 21:29:33 typed racket! :D 21:29:50 that's where I find the simpleness of Python being a great aid for not-super-awesome programmers 21:30:42 amoe, writing something similar that just checks the arguments shouldn't be difficult, I don't know for the whole thing. 21:30:43 Yeah, typed racket is a step in the right direction. 21:31:44 Full static typing is a bit unnecessary IMO but contracts would be useful to me. 21:31:50 I'm sure the haskellers would disagree though. 21:32:03 Obfuscate: If not to Python, then, where do you head for large projects (if you don't mind my asking)? 21:33:21 I like the argument that the capabilities of a dynamically (latent, whatever) typed language are a subset of a statically typed one but it seems to ignore the literal impact of the characters on the page 21:33:48 (which is _not_ just about saving typing) 21:34:24 klutometis: It depends on who I'm working with: in most cases, it ends up being C++ or ocaml (although neither are really my preference). 21:34:31 can someone help me understand the last line of this snippit? 21:34:32 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122465 21:35:34 Does anyone know a shell utility that, given two files, generates the Cartesian product of their lines? 21:36:04 amoe: I'm fine with optional typing and type inference, but typing is really something that should be done by default in most cases, particularly when any collaboration is expected. 21:36:13 (map cdr seqs) of '((1 2 3) (4 5 6)) is '((2 3) (5 6)) 21:36:53 Articate, it works. 21:37:00 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@bd21c0a9.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: Thanks, fellas] 21:37:00 yeah, I just need to understand it :D 21:37:25 the last line is a recursive call to multimap constructed using cons 21:37:31 cdring down all the seqs 21:37:50 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:54 (i.e. proc is the same between the calls) 21:38:50 *jcowan* is not a big fan of default strong typing, far from it. 21:39:22 H-M and similar algorithms will assign *some* type to your program parts, and you better hope it's the right one. 21:39:22 I am a big fan of having static typing available as an option 21:39:34 if it's not you'll find out 21:40:08 Not necessarily! 21:40:10 Articate: do you know the definition of a normal map? 21:40:17 It's not even DWIM, it's DWYTIM. 21:40:33 Any map that is not a twisted map? 21:40:52 amoe, not really 21:40:54 but I think I got it 21:42:22 since multitap is (define multitap proc . seqs) - means that we don't want to give it a list that contains lists, we just want to give it two lists. So (cons proc ) makes (list proc ), which is appropriate arguments to give to multimap 21:42:33 elly: by "static typing" do you mean type declaration or type inference? 21:42:36 Articate: yep 21:42:54 except not two but however many you like... 21:42:58 right :) 21:43:09 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@64.134.130.8] has left #scheme 21:44:42 jcowan: neither of those are 'static typing', but I would like the ability to both declare types and have them inferred at compile time 21:47:57 I originally intended for Flopsy, my NotQuiteScheme, to do type inference, but I decided I preferred lightweight type declarations using sigils. 21:48:06 You may now pelt me with ripe fruit. 21:48:12 banana! 21:48:19 sigils!? 21:48:24 couple old tangerines I got in the fridge 21:48:26 perl! 21:48:34 $%{sigils} 21:48:36 like that ^^ 21:48:41 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable020.240-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:58 hey, now. no need to ^%$^%$ curse 21:49:17 Articate: (apply multimap (cons proc ...)) -> (apply multimap proc ...) 21:49:18 Actually more like string$, flonum-vector$, reference-to-procedure->$ 21:49:19 *amoe* lobs a plum 21:49:22 er, make that flonum-vector* 21:49:53 Kernel has that thing called $vau. 21:49:56 *amoe* ducks 21:50:04 True, and $if and $lambda too. 21:50:19 But that's just convention. Here, the compiler actually knows that string$ is string-valued. 21:50:44 jcowan: wow, that's like Basic-Plus from my yoot 21:50:57 Whereas RealSchemes will not care about the sigils but will not cough on them either. Naturally, the R5RS built-ins don't require sigils, though they do allow them. 21:51:08 offby1: My yoot also 21:51:16 I do not require sigils, Mandrake; but I do allow them my essence 21:51:22 *jcowan* implemented Teco in Basic-Plus before DEC came out with the "real Teco" for RSTS/E 21:51:36 *offby1* goes agog 21:51:57 jcowan: wow oO 21:52:00 It was as slow as an excess of female persons. 21:52:01 so what's the deal with paranthesising a definition or not 21:52:12 'as an excess of female persons'? 21:52:22 as Mo' Lasses 21:52:27 niiiiice 21:52:28 hahah 21:52:44 hahahaha. 21:52:45 well played. 21:52:50 what's different about (define (something) (lambda (x) (* x x))) and (define something (lambda (x) (* x x)))? 21:52:55 No personal references intended of course. 21:53:10 Articate: the former defines a function called something 21:53:11 it seems I can't define anything inside of the latter 21:53:18 the latter defines a variable called something 21:53:31 which is bound to a lambda-procedure 21:53:44 The first one defines a zero-argument function which returns a squaring function, whereas the second defines a squaring function. 21:53:55 essentially, (define (name formals ...) body) -> (define name (lambda (formals) body)) 21:54:18 so lambda is allowed inside a variable-definition, but not other defines? 21:54:30 what? 21:54:31 no 21:54:42 No, it's *allowed*, it just means something different. See my last remark. 21:54:54 also see the transformation I said 21:55:03 which explains what (define (name formals ...) body) turns into 21:55:05 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 21:55:27 so your (define (something) (lambda (x) (* x x))) is turning into (define something (lambda () (lambda (x) (* x x)))) 21:55:29 well, ok - take this example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122469 21:55:47 ah 21:57:33 I just need to get why (define test (define local 0) local) isn't allowed, but (define (test) (define local 0) local) is 21:58:36 You can only do local definitions inside a procedure body 21:58:56 then it makes sense :) 21:58:59 what's the other one called, btw? 21:59:01 The second is a procedure body, the first is just an expression 21:59:06 ah 21:59:20 (define x y) where y is any expression and x any identifier 21:59:49 but (define (x ...) y) : y is a procedure body 21:59:54 right, then I get it :) 22:00:08 But also, the procedure body is implicitly a lambda expression :) 22:00:21 not so much implicitly, but you get it 22:00:30 it's a shorthand, the second form 22:00:39 (define (test)? 22:00:50 for (define test (lambda () ? 22:00:57 yep 22:01:00 ah 22:01:01 \o/ 22:01:03 i was wondering about that 22:01:26 i was just about to ask that question, thanks :) 22:01:32 always :D 22:02:18 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable020.240-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:02:59 \o/ 22:03:01 /~\ 22:03:10 ^^ scotsman ^^ 22:03:18 och 22:03:18 s/s/S/ 22:03:21 aye 22:03:28 *ijp* wonders if he should be offended 22:03:42 be! 22:03:59 he says your penises are curely! 22:03:59 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-170-119.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:02 oh wait, that's not what that is 22:04:07 lol 22:05:26 ijp, are you scottish? 22:06:09 yes 22:07:12 or would you prefer, aye ah um jimmy 22:07:16 heheh 22:07:20 is it warm up there atm? 22:07:32 man, it's been 25ºC here today! 22:07:37 and I have to practice for my Scheme exam :( 22:08:45 amoe: yeah, I've been sweating like a madman all day 22:09:14 *amoe* fears and shuns the sun like gollum 22:12:24 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-170-119.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 22:15:36 .oO("sun"?) 22:18:14 We do not speak of such terrible things here. 22:18:42 Gollum, however, has my sympathies. 22:18:55 offby1: The Day Moon 22:23:15 ijp: you mean the thing that illuminates the clouds from behind 22:25:55 rudybot: why's the sky blue? 22:25:55 amoe: Yo everybody! Got a simple question. I'm trying to modify the indentation of emacs, from what appears to be 8 spaces to 4 spaces. But when I look in the option for that it already says "4". So why's it 8 spaces whenever I press TAB? 22:26:52 rudybot: you need to recombobulate the jiggermathigger. 22:26:53 *offby1: set up wanderlust, set up some msn, then i don't need to leav eemacs, cept mp3 player. (maybe mpd ? 22:26:53 that's an awesome troll Q. 22:26:56 ah, a question that's surely an inevitable part of the human condition. 22:27:52 rudybot: flux capacitor? 22:27:52 amoe: yes the hash table will be in constant flux 22:28:38 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-119-189.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 22:29:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:58 -!- gavino_himself [~g@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #scheme 22:30:28 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:31:03 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 22:38:04 the good thing about this Scheme exam is that nothing has really changed for years 22:38:09 I've got previous exams back to '94 22:40:39 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 22:44:25 Articate, any past exams on the web? 22:45:29 y'all cheaters! 22:45:44 rudybot: party pooper 22:45:44 amoe: party pooper 22:45:50 freaky 22:45:51 rudybot: when did you become a paragon of virtue? 22:45:51 ijp: and i think it requires a paragon of self-awareness to recognize who your colloquy's voice is 22:45:56 they all are, amoe 22:45:59 sadly in Norwegian, though 22:46:05 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:05            22:46:22 I suppose that's utf-8 for "hi" 22:46:24 invalid translation language pair 22:46:30 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:46:37 I recognize the lambda... 22:46:39 Jeg vil selge deg fjorårets eksamen for en rimelig avgift 22:46:59 lolwut 22:47:05 google translate built-in :) 22:47:07 *amoe* is pining for the fjords 22:47:11 haha 22:47:31 PINING FOR THE FJORDS?! He's bleeding demised! 22:47:31 Articate, what does that mean? 22:47:38 see behind the curtain: http://ix.io/1IG 22:47:39 I'll sell you last year's exam for a reasonable price 22:47:46 mwahahaha 22:47:50 *offby1* nails amoe to the perch 22:48:16 *amoe* feels a bit dirty after clicking that link 22:48:46 imagine how I feel, with my arm up rudybot's ... 22:48:55 bot'om? 22:49:15 *rudybot* shifts uncomfortably 22:53:07 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 22:53:59 is there a difference between modulo and remainder? 22:54:28 only with negative numbers I believe 22:55:07 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:55:55 ah 22:58:21 -!- stamourv [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:59:26 -!- ventonegro [~alex@cust.static.46-14-234-161.swisscomdata.ch] has quit [Quit: ventonegro] 23:04:50 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 23:06:43 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-155-5.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:10:19 JoelMcCracken [~user@pool-96-236-166-27.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:13:27 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:13:35 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 23:15:30 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-232-228.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:48 offby1: Too bad they're shutting that API down; schadenfreudig bastards. 23:16:23 klutometis, the translation one? 23:20:52 masm [~masm@2.80.155.5] has joined #scheme 23:23:07 strout [~strout@ip-64-255-129-222.ideaone.net] has joined #scheme 23:27:13 -!- rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:19 klutometis: really? Bummer 23:35:43 klutometis: so I never asked: are you happy with rudybot carrying on incubot's glorious legacy? 23:38:15 all glory to the incubot 23:38:37 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:21 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:42:26 hmph 23:42:32 he slinked off in a snit 23:50:08 oh god. 23:50:17 this is just torturous 23:50:26 :-( 23:50:29 *offby1* 's heart bleeds 23:50:34 tell us your troubles 23:50:51 rudybot, (define vin (lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y)))) 23:50:51 Articate: your sandbox is ready 23:50:51 Articate: Done. 23:51:11 rudybot, ((vin + 2) 3) 23:51:11 Articate: ; Value: 5 23:51:22 now I have to replace that by using lambdas 23:51:46 *offby1* stares blankly 23:51:54 dunno what yer on about, lad 23:51:55 expand out all of the lambdas in that ((vin + 2) 3) expression? 23:52:09 yeah, make that one into pure lambdas 23:52:32 rudybot, (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y)) + 2) 3) 23:52:32 Articate: (reduce (lambda (x y) (and x y)) '(1 2 3 4)) 23:52:37 (vin + 2) => (lambda (+ 2) (lambda (y) (+ 2 y))) 23:52:56 ((vin + 2) 3) => (lambda (+ 2) (lambda (y) (+ 2 3))) 23:52:58 not that hard 23:53:05 Articate: ignore rudybot's response there I think 23:53:20 rudybot, eval (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y)) + 2) 3) 23:53:20 Articate: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 23:53:23 yeah, unfortunately, when you don't say "eval", he's likely to spout something at random 23:53:52 rudybot, eval (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y))) + 2) 3) 23:53:52 Articate: ; Value: 5 23:53:58 ok, that's doable 23:53:59 now 23:54:19 rudybot, ((vin * ((vin + 2) 3)) 4) 23:54:20 Articate: ; Value: 20 23:54:34 rudybot: eval ((curry + 2) 3) 23:54:34 *offby1: error: current-directory: `exists' access denied for /usr/local/src/rudybot/ 23:54:36 bah 23:54:39 rudybot: ((curry + 2) 3) 23:54:39 *offby1: error: current-directory: `exists' access denied for /usr/local/src/rudybot/ 23:54:42 *sigh* 23:54:48 WHY DO YOU AHTE ME 23:54:56 how did that happen? 23:55:00 amazing 23:55:05 rudybot: ((curry + 2) 3) 23:55:06 *offby1: ; Value: 5 23:55:09 *whew* 23:55:26 try my next one :p 23:55:36 Articate, you can do the same thing 23:55:36 rudybot: ((curry * (curry + 2) 3) 4) 23:55:36 *offby1: error: *: expects type as 1st argument, given: #; other arguments were: 3 4 23:55:44 rudybot: ((curryr * (curry + 2) 3) 4) 23:55:44 *offby1: error: *: expects type as 2nd argument, given: #; other arguments were: 4 3 23:55:47 hpmh 23:57:47 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:57:48 rudybot, eval (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y))) * (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y)) + 2) 3)) 4) 23:57:48 Articate: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 23:58:05 rudybot, eval (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y))) * (((lambda (p x) (lambda (y) (p x y))) + 2) 3)) 4) 23:58:05 Articate: ; Value: 20 23:58:09 \o/ 23:58:10 :) 23:58:15 \o/ 23:58:15 see? Torturous! 23:58:17 /!\ 23:58:22 Articate: sure it's torturous. 23:58:27 nah, that's beautiful! :) 23:58:29 this is one of those things that teachers make you do 23:58:36 so you can appreciate the computer, I guess 23:58:52 my teacher can suck your exclamation-point! 23:58:53 rudybot: do you appreciate the computer? 23:58:53 ijp: ooh perhaps ams didn't see themessage... I have to leave the chan now but would appreciate it very much if someone could copy/paste it to him when he comes back 23:58:55 wow, I just realized my little ascii-art fella is ... kinda off-color 23:58:56 naw - I'll survive 23:59:22 *offby1* envies his little ascii-art fella 23:59:55 why? you'd pass out if you looked at a hot girl