00:24:42 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has joined #scheme 00:29:52 pjb: You overloled it? ;-) 00:31:08 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:32:20 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:37:37 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 00:40:19 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:30 czakian [~czakian@c-98-223-184-248.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:41:31 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:42:49 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:21 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has joined #scheme 00:45:24 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:50:30 A program that runs on scheme, emacs-lisp and Common-Lisp: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 00:50:49 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:19 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has joined #scheme 00:56:08 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:56:18 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:31 pjb: neat 00:56:52 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has joined #scheme 00:56:52 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:20 ijp: so now, either I implement scheme in CL, or CL in scheme, to make it really usable :-) 00:59:58 pjb: .boolean isn't technically allowed by the scheme grammar, maybe change it to boolean. 01:00:09 Oops. 01:00:28 I wanted to avoid BOOLEAN since it's defined in CL, but I could play with CL packages earlier. 01:00:46 s/.boolean/native-boolean/ for now... 01:00:47 add the dot at the end 01:01:28 ijp: if you want the intersection r5rs common-lisp, check the old paste linked at the beginning. 01:01:40 LOADs fine in guile,ikarus and ypsilon 01:01:45 :-) 01:02:10 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:03:05 In that old paste, I define more of scheme in CL, so that you can write more interesting programs in a subset of r5rs that will run in CL too. 01:11:03 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.154.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:13 -!- czakian [~czakian@c-98-223-184-248.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:20:09 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:27:47 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:31:09 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:25 -!- qizwiz [~user@ppp-70-245-65-87.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:42:25 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:42:25 -!- copumpkin 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[~sstrickl@c-71-192-163-167.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:34:38 -!- samth [~samth@64.168.229.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:35:41 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:36:14 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has joined #scheme 03:43:28 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:45:30 OneBraveHog [~nana@pool-96-236-160-103.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:52:07 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:58:20 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.92] has joined #scheme 03:58:23 hello 03:59:54 I want to watch this racket video http://twit.tv/floss167 but the website is blocked here. Is there a way to download the video? 04:00:26 -!- zanea [~zanea@219-89-167-252.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01:37 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:46 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.165.202] has joined #scheme 04:06:17 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:07:54 I suspect so ... 04:08:25 try http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp4/twit.cachefly.net/video/floss/floss0167/floss0167_h264b_864x480_500.mp4 04:08:26 http://tinyurl.com/3emruly 04:08:30 or http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp4/twit.cachefly.net/video/floss/floss0167/floss0167_h264b_640x368_256.mp4 04:08:31 http://tinyurl.com/3be4ls5 04:08:42 the first is hi-res; the second lo-res 04:09:22 offby1: many thanks. 04:09:51 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:11:45 zanea [~zanea@219-89-162-226.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 04:18:50 arbscht 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[Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:08 gremset [ubuntu@117.192.127.151] has joined #scheme 13:18:10 elsjaako [~bart@5356F696.cm-6-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #scheme 13:18:49 Hi, I'm putting together a guile script, and I can't figure out how to first do one function then another 13:20:05 for example: first (run-command "first-command") and then (run-command "second command") right after each other, in the same function 13:20:46 I've tried googeling it, but it's kind of hard to find a google-able way of describing the problem 13:22:49 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:23:06 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:24:56 elsjaako: (lambda () (run-cmd 1) (run-cmd 2)) not good? 13:25:55 excellent, I thought lambda only accepted one command 13:26:02 thanks 13:26:04 nope :) 13:26:31 if you want to use it elsewhere you can do (begin (run-cmd 1) (run-cmd 2)) 13:26:34 in cases where you can only provide one sexpr but need to do more you can also use a (begin ) block 13:30:15 thanks 13:35:21 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:37:14 MengZhang [~MengZhang@222.69.214.176] has joined #scheme 13:38:30 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:34 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 13:42:07 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-158-155.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:45:18 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:46:18 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #scheme 13:50:28 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:55 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 13:57:52 aisa [~aisa@206-190-68-94.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #scheme 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(RUN-DMC walk-this-way)) 15:00:22 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 15:08:16 kandinski: rudybot doesn't know any music after about 1980, so RUN-DMC will probably yield an "undefined identifier" error. 15:08:26 rudybot: aerosmith 15:08:26 *offby1: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 15:08:37 rudybot: 8-track, cassette, LP, CD 15:08:38 *offby1: there is a l/p to this site -- how do i pass that information? 15:08:50 why does rudybot not know any music after 1980? 15:08:57 rudybot: hot 92.3, all the hits, less talk 15:08:57 *offby1: "Today, Kissinger's much-anticipated treatise On China hits stores." 15:09:04 *offby1* nods sagely 15:09:18 rudybot: Wumpscut's "Breathe" 15:09:18 elly: Hmm...dunno. They don't breathe, they are heavy, and they don't move. 15:09:26 that one's from 2005 :P 15:09:27 There's been music after 1980? 15:09:46 young old man ;) 15:10:57 I thought music officially shut down with John Travolta's invention of disco in 1978. 15:12:39 Since then, it's been kind of... Mach. 15:17:10 -!- mmc1 [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:20:49 -!- elsjaako [~bart@5356F696.cm-6-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #scheme 15:21:04 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 15:22:36 Riastradh: I'd have expected you to have referred to Benny Goodman 15:23:14 http://www.originaloldradio.com/george_sanders.jpg <-- Riastradh's prom photo 15:23:24 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 15:27:23 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 15:27:27 -!- aisa [~aisa@206-190-68-94.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 15:30:20 HG` [~HG@p579F7F7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:32:40 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:33:36 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:35:37 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:26 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 15:46:05 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-167.cust.tele2.se] has left #scheme 15:50:27 karme [~user@stgt-5d8493fd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 15:51:36 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@128.91.39.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:44 -!- asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:21c:26ff:fe06:5b57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:56:38 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:21 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-197-141.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 16:08:04 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 16:14:38 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:51 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 16:19:14 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-71-192-163-167.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:32 sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:21:53 -!- wingo [~wingo@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:23:38 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-197-141.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:41 aisa [~aisa@206-190-68-94.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #scheme 16:26:40 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:26:55 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 16:34:47 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:41:26 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-184.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:44:31 wingo [~wingo@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #scheme 16:46:28 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:50:32 minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:53:47 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 17:05:04 -!- wingo [~wingo@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:38 asumu [~at@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:09:25 turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:13:24 ymasory [~ymasory@SEAS131.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has joined #scheme 17:17:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:32 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:43:19 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:46:28 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-167.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 17:49:00 -!- karme [~user@stgt-5d8493fd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:26 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@SEAS131.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:56 soveran [~soveran@E210230249165.ec-userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:01:46 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:38 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:10:25 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:12:17 -!- blisk [~blisk@h249.107.90.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:09 Explain why the other one is not. Why is the following illegal? 18:14:12 (cond [(< n 10) 20] [* 10 n] [else 555]) ; 18:14:15 huh 18:14:23 I thought this is legal 18:14:54 [* 10 n] == checks if `*' is not #f --> it is not --> evaluate 10 and n 18:22:01 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:27:40 rudybot, eval (cond [(< n 10) 20] [* 10 n] [else 555]) 18:27:40 Jafet: your sandbox is ready 18:27:40 Jafet: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: n in module: 'program 18:27:54 rudybot, eval (let [(n 42)] (cond [(< n 10) 20] [* 10 n] [else 555])) 18:27:55 Jafet: ; Value: 42 18:28:14 Perhaps they're using a scheme without implicit begins everywhere. 18:32:53 It's from HtDP 18:33:00 so they are using Racket :| 18:35:29 Perhaps they want you to think that they're using a scheme without implicit begins everywhere. 18:35:44 ah 18:35:49 they are not using base racket 18:35:51 Are they using #lang racket, or something simpler? 18:35:55 they are using it's own teaching language 18:35:56 yeah 18:35:59 probably so 18:45:52 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-184.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:35 Are we not Scheme? We are Racket. 18:49:16 With apologies to HG Wells. And Devo. 18:50:24 <3 18:50:49 ymasory [~ymasory@128.91.39.26] has joined #scheme 18:52:10 HG`` [~HG@p5DC05BDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:55:20 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7F7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:55:40 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 18:58:26 -!- soveran [~soveran@E210230249165.ec-userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:54 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:13:23 In this case, I can actually understand the motivation towards disallowing implicit-begin in the teaching language. 19:13:37 It flags the kind of mistake that you've seen above. 19:14:36 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 19:16:30 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 19:29:04 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC05BDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:32:30 cky: Hey, I'd like new COND and LET forms with fewer parens and no implicit begins. But why not make them LT and CND or anything different? Racket's lack of a one-armed IF is quite irritating. Yes, it's bad form, but sometimes I need to use bad form... 19:34:35 why not use "when"? 19:46:40 It's not Scheme. 19:47:36 -!- asumu [~at@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:48:30 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 19:55:55 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:56:08 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:52 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:20:10 (define-syntax when (syntax-rules () ((when cond body ...) (if cond (begin body ...) #f)))) 20:20:14 now it's scheme. 20:20:19 rudybot: (define-syntax when (syntax-rules () ((when cond body ...) (if cond (begin body ...) #f)))) 20:20:20 pjb: your sandbox is ready 20:20:20 pjb: Done. 20:20:34 rudybot: (when (= 2 2) (display "hi!") 42) 20:20:34 pjb: ; Value: 42 20:20:43 rudybot: (when (= 3 2) 55) 20:20:43 pjb: ; Value: #f 20:20:47 see, perfectly scheme. 20:21:18 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@128.91.39.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:23 edw: It certainly is. And if you're dealing with an outdated scheme, then a `when' macro is a better option than fighting with redefining `if' (or giving up sanity and going down to the r5rs language). 20:31:22 asumu [~at@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 20:32:15 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-158-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:15 homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-158-155.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:35:39 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-255-54.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:53 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 20:47:26 Jafet: rudybot uses #lang racket. 20:48:15 pjb: I wonder if the return value, when the expression is false, should be #f. Maybe void ... ? 20:57:46 offby1: that's what CL does. It's quite practical: (if (when (= a b) (do-something) (= c d)) (then) (else)) 20:58:53 pjb: That's not what Scheme does in almost all contexts. 20:59:27 That's really strange, for a functional programming language. 20:59:35 Returning void makes it harder to compose subexpressions. 20:59:55 or returning "undefined" results... 20:59:56 On the contrary, it's really natural for a *functional* language. 21:00:00 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:20 You end up having to introduce the statement sequencing operator, begin, for futile things. 21:00:41 Right, I said "functional". 21:01:05 In both meanings. 21:01:26 What's really surprising for me is that you're surprised at this. 21:02:48 eli: a functional programming language could have a bottom value. In that case, eg. (car #) --> # But there's no such value in scheme. In CL, there's NIL: (car nil) --> nil. 21:03:20 (when (not 'true) ...) --> nil which is your #, ie #. 21:04:21 But anyways, let's not compare languages here, it's not the right format. 21:04:34 pjb: If you really want this to become scientific, then the extremely common definition of bottom when dealing with PLs is (( (x) (x x)) ( (x) (x x))) 21:04:52 And for that, (car bottom) => bottom. 21:04:54 pjb, statements produce top, not bottom. 21:05:31 But in lisp, there's only expressions, no statements. 21:05:42 pdlogan [~patrick@75-94-47-26.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #scheme 21:05:56 djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 21:06:12 pjb: Once again, this is not common lisp. 21:07:04 Of course. However, that doesn't prevent the programmer to define his macros in a more practical way than scheme. 21:07:25 So I dispute the validity of the argument "That's not what Scheme does in almost all contexts.". 21:07:31 Statements are not syntactically distinct in Racket/Scheme/Lisp, but any expression that unconditionally produces the top value is essentially a statement, in that its return value conveys no information. #f conveys that the output was not #t. Void is generally produced by functions that only produce void. Hence, statements. 21:07:55 Which is a language design error, IMO. 21:08:03 Having statements. 21:08:18 It is impossible to not have statements in the sense I just described. 21:08:25 But thankfully, we can correct this, thanks to the metalinguistic properties of scheme and its macros. 21:08:44 I use "when" only when I'm interested in side-effects 21:09:14 Unless you weren't responding to my comment with your "language design error" comment. IRC's [lack of] threading makes it hard to follow antecedents. 21:09:20 offby1: well, the original question was that when would be useful when there's only one branch to the if. 21:09:39 pjb: Yes, you can define your own macros. You can even use some racket features and define a `set' macro (no bang, no `f'). Still unfitting in most scheme code. 21:09:40 bohanlon [~bohanlon@pool-108-20-68-105.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:10:11 pjb: It seems like you're looking for boolean implication rather than "when". 21:10:29 Or, wait, that's backwards. Conjunction. So, "and". 21:10:30 carleastlund: that is probably the case in most occurences. 21:10:48 inference. 21:10:52 So use and, and let people who want when have it. 21:11:06 Implication produces #t, not #f, when the first argument is false. 21:11:52 eli: but still re: unfitting, in lisp the lore is that a programmers writes layers of languages to finally write the solution of his problem in the language of the domain of his problem. Scheme is not the domain language of any real problem. 21:12:01 -!- rins` [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:12:11 eli: so again, I dispute the validity of that argument (fitness to scheme "style"). 21:12:31 carleastlund: it's not implication, it's inference. 21:13:06 You can write little Q&D rule systems using when in a loop. 21:13:23 I've never heard of inference as the name of a binary propositional operator. Is it different from conjunction? 21:14:24 pjb: That's very true -- it's obviously a major feature that you can shape the language to fit what you consider good style. 21:14:57 But do that too much, and when you reach that idealistic mountain peak you find out that you're all alone there, and nobody wants to touch your beautiful code. 21:15:15 (And a CL'er, of all people, should know the Scheme curse well.) 21:15:27 carleastlund: in expert systems, you have rules made of an antecedant (a conjonction usually), and a conclusion (a list of actions). You can use antecedant => conclusion ... . to write them, or just (when antecendant conclusion...). Here => is not the implication (but logically, the system tries to enforce them as implications: if an antecedant is true, then it must realize the action (make them true). 21:15:42 eli, +1 for the "mountain peak" comment, well put 21:16:11 eli: theorically, the users are there, waiting with the problems in their domain... 21:16:36 OK. Enjoy the theoretical crowd that will join your project then. 21:17:00 The users... They should be able to write their own solutions then. 21:17:04 It might even get theoretically big enough that you'll be theoretically rich. 21:17:50 *eli* buys a theoretical island, since he's a long-time theoretical billionaire 21:17:53 pjb: Okay, sure. But it seems to me that this => notation is equivalent either to Racket's when or Racket's and. Use whichever fits best. I don't see any need to turn when into and. 21:18:14 (given that and already exists) 21:18:33 It's not really and that he's talking about, btw. 21:18:40 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:57 (define-syntax-rules (pjb-when x . xs) (and x (begin . xs))) 21:18:59 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:05 carleastlund: well, the point is to make it more readable, thanks to the conotations, to the human readers. 21:19:20 -!- stchang [~stchang@login.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:28 EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:30 eli: yes, one can also write it like this. 21:19:33 pjb: Don't forget the magic word -- the theoretical human reader. 21:19:38 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 21:20:00 eli: theorically, there's at least one practical human reader: the writer. 21:20:08 stchang [~stchang@login.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 21:20:21 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 21:20:31 I don't often write code without reading (it may happen, it's not pretty). 21:20:55 Okay. To me, (when A B) says to do B when A is true. It doesn't say anything at all about what to do when A is false. Hence the information-free "top" value in the default when. But certainly I could see building an expert system language with the binding you are describing called when, =>, or whatever else, if that's the convention in that domain. 21:21:11 pjb: There you go, early success! 21:22:02 Yay! 21:22:14 pjb: (And note what carleastlund said; things would be much better if you'd chose a better name.) 21:22:15 carleastlund: to me it's just a matter of style. 21:22:51 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:06 -!- aisa [~aisa@206-190-68-94.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 21:24:32 The convention of a top value as return value from effect-only expressions is common in other functional languages, e.g. ML and (monadic) Haskell. The only language I know of that returns false is LISP, and that's because LISP combines top, false, empty, and the symbol NIL into a single value. So it's hard to say which of those is "intended" when a Lisp function returns NIL. 21:31:17 GETOUT___ [4572a1e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.114.161.232] has joined #scheme 21:32:15 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@75-94-47-26.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:39 Can Scheme get down as low-level as C? 21:33:53 GETOUT___: definitely. 21:34:55 Any good implements with that? (used to be a real scheming wiz until all the different implements made me drop that shit for CL) 21:35:52 scheme48 schemix 21:36:07 http://abstractnonsense.com/schemix/faq.html 21:37:30 Thanks, I suppose 21:37:36 GETOUT___: http://docs.racket-lang.org/foreign/ 21:37:54 "Scheme" can't, implementations can. 21:38:04 Right, I understand that 21:38:07 Which is why I asked 21:38:19 It's the same situation as in CL, BTW. 21:38:21 GETOUT___: well, I don't know the scheme implementations really. Gambit also might be practical for bit mungling. 21:38:30 (since it generates C code). 21:39:17 Right, right. And I know. Ah well, what can you do? 21:39:35 CL gives alot of room for interpretation 21:39:36 Tell you to check the doc of the various implementations. 21:39:42 But luckily, because its so large 21:39:48 scheme even more, really. 21:39:49 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:40:00 Its not flooded with inane little college projects 21:42:56 yikes, schemix and movitz both a) claim to use CVS; b) have dead links that purport to point to their CVS source 21:48:01 drdo [~user@89.180.114.103] has joined #scheme 21:48:48 amoe_ [~amoe@cpc1-brig13-0-0-cust658.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 21:48:50 -!- GETOUT___ [4572a1e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.114.161.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:48:54 -!- amoe_ [~amoe@cpc1-brig13-0-0-cust658.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:32 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 21:51:31 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 21:56:20 Probably because people have moved over to git, but not updated their home pages... 21:57:56 or CVS made them take up gardening instead of hacking 22:00:09 seamus-android [~alistair@cpc1-brig7-0-0-cust565.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 22:02:33 drdo` [~user@89-180-245-62.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 22:04:03 -!- drdo [~user@89.180.114.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:04:51 -!- homie [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-158-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:05:34 heh 22:05:43 homie` [~levent.gu@xdsl-78-35-139-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:07:38 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 22:08:37 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has joined #scheme 22:10:50 -!- docgnome [~docgnome@web169.webfaction.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:55 docgnome [~docgnome@web169.webfaction.com] has joined #scheme 22:11:40 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 22:16:28 for a single person project I don't think they make much difference :) 22:19:28 drdo`` [~user@89-181-127-94.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 22:19:35 I'd kill myself if I had to use CVS, even for a single-person project. 22:19:48 OK, maybe I exaggerate slightly. 22:20:46 -!- drdo` [~user@89-180-245-62.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:31:11 -!- asumu [~at@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:44 Khisanth: have you used both? 22:33:00 cvs log is a cruel joke 22:36:31 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:37:27 yes but it's been a while since I had to use cvs :) 22:37:57 but now that you mention it cvs status is probably more hateful than cvs log 22:40:25 asumu [~at@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:41:02 -!- drdo`` [~user@89-181-127-94.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:45:26 -!- asumu [~at@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:50:58 nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-105-118.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:52:35 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 22:54:14 JoelMcCracken [~user@pool-72-95-157-124.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:12:03 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:49 bokr [~eduska@109.110.54.237] has joined #scheme 23:27:46 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 23:40:45 marchdown [~marchdown@erinia.xenoethics.org] has joined #scheme 23:46:49 -!- marchdown [~marchdown@erinia.xenoethics.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:50:14 it's all hateful. 23:50:18 no integrity checking. 23:50:57 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f77b405.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 23:53:05 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit []