00:00:07 heh 00:00:15 "optimization by laziness" 00:01:50 Hey 00:02:18 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:02:30 All day of scheme learning, my brain hurts just slightly 00:07:49 fulmene [~fulmene@pool-74-108-80-19.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:09:04 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:09:06 one thing I keep skipping is the punctuation thing, I still don't understand how ((lambda (x) (+ x 2)) 5) is legal is the x being applied to the 5 or the opposite? 00:11:06 I guess the 5 is considered an argument by (( var body) argument) example 00:11:31 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:52 hussaibi [~hussaibi@67.70.230.34] has joined #scheme 00:20:15 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:35 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:21:32 -!- soveran_ is now known as soveran 00:23:23 EM03, in Python that's (lambda x: x+2)(5), but maybe I'm misunderstanding the question. 00:24:04 no not that, I'm just curious really why the () is there 00:24:22 and I see why its there, because the 5 has to be an argument 00:24:32 but still I dont see how a double parenthesis is not an error 00:25:19 EM03: you mean, why are lambda expressions allowed in the head position? 00:26:22 if you call any other procedure with a double parenthesis which is not this certian type it will fail for example let 00:27:01 parentheses mean function (or macro) application, as long as the expression in the head evaluates to a function there is no problem 00:27:27 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:27:29 i'm talking double parenthesis 00:27:41 which double parenthesis? 00:27:47 ((lambda (x) (+ x 2)) 5) 00:27:51 the (( 00:27:58 right, 00:28:13 if you set x=1 that'll be 00:28:15 Each parenthesis is significant, EM03. 00:28:36 Don't look at `double-parentheses'; look at what each one means. 00:28:40 EM03, the second paren ``belongs'' to lambda. 00:28:49 Consider 00:28:52 rudybot: eval (sqrt 5) 00:28:53 ( (lambda (x) (+ 1 2)) 5) 00:28:53 ( (lambda (x) 3) 5) 00:28:53 Riastradh: your sandbox is ready 00:28:53 Riastradh: ; Value: 2.23606797749979 00:28:55 ( 3 5) 00:29:14 the middle notation is kind of "wrong", just hoped it helped you understand it 00:29:19 what does the first one belong to? 00:29:27 the 5? 00:29:29 the function returned by the lambda expression 00:29:37 EM03, in (sqrt 5), what does the parenthesis mea? 00:29:41 Mean, even. 00:29:43 ah ok i get it 00:29:45 EM03, to the application of that function to 5. 00:29:48 sorry :) 00:29:51 (lambda (x) (+ x 2)) -> 00:30:43 so when the lambda returns it returns a function object that i guess is called similar to a normal function? (lambdareturn var) ? 00:31:13 yes. 00:31:17 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:31:19 ok i get it sorry 00:31:23 (it *is* a normal function) 00:31:25 ignis_: Here's an example of a trivial trace macro that runs in Chicken: . 00:31:26 right, in this case lambdareturn is evaluated, and we get a procedure object 00:31:41 but with no name ....well maybe internally 00:31:55 ignis_: It could be modified to give, say, Graphviz output for callgraphs; and a similar wrapper around lambda could trace anonymous functions. 00:34:10 klutometis: thanks. I will take a look 00:34:26 EM03, procedures are just another kind of value. 00:34:48 DT``: yea i didn't realize the lambda was returning a function object like that, i over complciated it 00:36:02 can I ask another stupid question, I never used lambda 00:36:14 's to much in python, what are they strongly used for in scheme? 00:36:59 The same thing named procedures are for 00:37:15 just to quickly have a function that returns a value where you don't have to define it so possibly it will only have 1 use case? 00:37:22 EM03, just think that (define (f x) ...) is just sugar for (define f (lambda (x) ...)), so, all the time. 00:37:40 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:37:40 but by naming it you can use it more than once 00:38:38 sometimes naming it would be an overkill, e.g. when you pass it to `map'. 00:38:44 (map (lambda (x) (* x x)) #| <- used more than once |# '(1 2 3)) ;) 00:38:56 ah 00:39:02 but I know what you mean 00:39:06 but does that theory work out ok? for the most part? 00:39:50 If i'm calling something all the time through the app define it with a name? otherwise if its small and only has a use case in that "scope" << wrong word , use lambda? 00:39:54 EM03, the theory of lambda is very well established :) 00:39:58 how would I easiest go about converting (#\s "rab" #\space #\o #\o #\f) into a string? 00:40:34 or actually it's #\s (#\r #\a #\b) #\space #\o #\o #\f) 00:40:56 missing a start paranthesis there - and I can't just use list->string, because of the sublist 00:41:02 EM03: Well, if you're using it multiple times, that's extremely inconvenient without a name :) 00:41:20 yes copying and pasting is basic style 00:41:22 in multiple places I should say 00:41:27 flatten the list first; then apply "list->string" 00:41:41 how would you flatten the list? 00:42:01 rudybot: or whatever turns a list of characters into a 00:42:02 *offby1: Anyway, as it turns out (and I'm saying this as a convert who used to be religious about not using []s, and only started to use them to conform to other people's style when editing such sources) the brackets are very convenient in general. 00:42:03 oops 00:42:05 rudybot: (list->string (flatten '( #\s (#\r #\a #\b) #\space #\o #\o #\f))) 00:42:05 *offby1: ; Value: "srab oof" 00:42:09 like that :) 00:42:30 ... that is, if you happen to have a pre-written "flatten" procedure :) 00:42:55 heh, well I don't 00:43:00 easy enough to write. 00:43:01 but I can imagine I'll haev to right one 00:43:10 write 00:43:11 just walk the cons-pair-tree, accumulating characters 00:43:22 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:47 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:44:36 why do some people call lambda's closures ? 00:45:03 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:45:03 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:45:03 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 00:45:06 This is a bit off topic, but does anyone know where I can get some historical information on SIGPLAN? I'm writing a paper for an English class about Scheme and I want a sense of how long SIGPLAN and its associated conferences have been around. 00:45:27 I see in many ways how they are almost identical but isn't closure usually a naming convention for a different purpose 00:45:37 EM03, they produce closures. 00:45:48 danking, have you read the steele & gabriel history of lisp? 00:46:00 DT``: ah 00:46:47 samth: I have not. 00:46:49 DT``: but like using closures in say ruby aren't you just creating it from a lambda 00:47:01 kba: I just slapped this together, but it seems to work: http://ix.io/1GM 00:47:43 wouh, that was fast.. thanks! 00:47:46 EM03: to me, a closure is a function that has some free variables, especially if they're defined in a lexical scope that contains the function, but aren't global 00:48:30 offby1: i just see so many docs online of people using the word interchangeably 00:48:31 danking, if you're interested in the history of scheme, you should 00:49:07 search for "evolution of lisp" (it was published in HOPL II) 00:49:49 EM03: yes, because in most cases you are closing over a free variable, even if it's just, say, + 00:50:54 offby1: how does that convention hold up in the presence of modules? 00:51:13 samth: Thanks, just downloaded it. This should help get me some more historical information. 00:51:25 well most closures i see only take 1 variable, a lambda you can pass multiple 00:53:16 danking, feel free to email for more historical scheme stuff 00:53:20 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 00:53:32 ijp: what, my definition of "closure"? Modules make no difference. 00:53:54 it changes the definition of "global" 00:53:56 when I say "global", I guess I mean "module-level" too 00:53:58 jinx 00:54:12 this is not a precise definition! It's just how I think about it. 01:00:31 samth_away: great thanks. 01:01:48 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:05:52 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:24 -!- czakian [~czakian@c-98-223-184-248.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:12:36 -!- fulmene [~fulmene@pool-74-108-80-19.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:18:14 klutometis: I've not used any macros yet (SICP is my first introduction to scheme and that book doesn't use them). How would I actually use this? 01:19:21 ignis_: You want to be able to trace lambdas and create call graphs? 01:20:58 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:25 If so, you're going to have to de-anonymize the lambdas, in some sense, for the callgraphs to be meaningful; outputting graphviz is relatively trivial at that point. 01:21:43 eventually, yes. Even just seeing the regular textual trace output would be a start. My issue is when I look at that debug.scm I don't really know where to start. 01:21:53 yeah, I reckon I could output to graphviz ok 01:21:55 I'll try to think of something while I'm sleeping; meanwhile, try grokking the old-fashioned way. Everyone had to do the same thing through SICP 4. 01:22:32 I did "(import "debug.scm") but I don't really know what it does 01:23:23 hah, fair enough ;) Yes, I think I do get it for the most part. Seeing a graphviz call graph might help though and seems like a cool little diversion anyway 01:26:02 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:29:31 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 01:40:42 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-57-102-171.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:42:23 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:43:55 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:15 ignis_: it's possible that there's a SICP language for racket; if that's true, then it's possible that you can use DrRacket's "stepper" to walk through the code 01:46:58 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 01:49:08 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@67.70.230.34] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:50:06 yes, you can use racket for SICP. That might be easiest way 01:50:33 haven't actually tried it myself 01:51:27 yeah, there is a language and there is even an implementation of the picture language chapter so you can really see the pictures etc. 01:52:13 jimrees [~jimrees@pool-96-237-230-95.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:58:42 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:26 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:09:37 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:15:41 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #scheme 02:16:46 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:20:12 -!- jimrees [~jimrees@pool-96-237-230-95.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:34:33 erjiang [~erjiang@adsl-108-85-5-191.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:41:59 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:48:05 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:55:12 elderK [ca445bc6@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 02:55:36 :) Hey people, anyone here happen to be from Christchurch? 03:01:49 *offby1* watches the tumbleweeds skitter down Main St 03:02:14 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:02:29 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable182.177-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:03:46 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:04:11 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 03:04:35 -!- moll [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:05:52 :P offby1 , you're a christchurchian 03:05:53 ? 03:09:28 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable182.177-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: --> Put something intelligent here when I'm more bored <--] 03:14:06 -!- gremset_ [ubuntu@117.192.99.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:41 nossir 03:15:46 nor apparently is anyone else 03:15:54 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:17:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 03:17:50 aw 03:17:51 :( 03:23:00 well, you can pretend I am, if it'd make you feel better 03:23:07 *offby1* has no idea what Noo Zeelanders sound like 03:23:11 ozztralyans? 03:23:27 heheheh 03:23:41 ewwwztrayyyylyaaaannnn mayte! 03:23:51 fiyussssh und chups! 03:24:04 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:26:37 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 03:27:19 all I know about Australia is Crocodile Dundee and the Monty Python "Australian Table Wines" sketch 03:28:13 What about the Monty Python philosophy department sketch? 03:29:51 Oh yeah, well, OK, Bruce 03:32:57 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfcca3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:33:09 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfdeba.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 03:34:02 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:37:54 ignis_: Oh; sorry, dude: it's a module. You can, for instance: (include "debug.scm") (import debug). 03:41:33 If any of us were to be suddenly absent (knock on wood), would it perceived as a loss; or are we ephemeral digital artifacts, even in #scheme? 03:41:35 gremset [ubuntu@117.192.118.140] has joined #scheme 03:42:41 I would perceive it as a loss if _I_ were to become suddenly absent, I can tell you. 03:43:06 offby1: Dammit; that's the rub, though: would you perceive anything at all? 03:43:41 yeah yeah yeah 03:43:48 I'm still against the idea, perception or no 03:45:21 -!- nome [~user@c-76-120-244-110.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:47:27 offby1: It's bizarre living in Tron; I wish I could gather these ephemeral electrons and coax them to linger. 03:48:44 can't you just think positive, and thereby attract them? 03:49:03 Sorry, man; just woke up from an untimely nap (oxymoron?). 03:54:39 Or redundant, depending on your philosophy. 03:56:16 klutometis: offby1 was just rwaxing nostalgiac about mbishop 03:56:49 And I kinda miss Smerdyakov trolling Riastradh :) 03:57:36 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 03:58:11 .oO(how does foof know that I use mustache wax?) 03:59:31 *foof* knows everything 04:00:11 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:03:33 That and I keep surveillance cameras in the showers of everyone in #scheme. 04:04:06 camouflaged as coathooks? :-| 04:04:42 camouflaged as soap bars! >:) 04:06:09 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:59 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 04:07:49 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:09 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:42 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 04:19:46 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 04:20:09 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:52 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 04:27:51 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-71-192-163-167.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 04:31:39 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:35:09 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:35:43 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 04:36:15 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@adsl-108-85-5-191.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 04:37:37 nome [~user@c-98-244-98-30.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:40:55 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:41:26 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 04:42:23 Question about designing S-expression representations of non-Lisp languages: is it better to use the conventions of the language or of Lisp? 04:42:23 Better to write (= a (== b c)) for a = b==c, or (set[q!] a (= b c)) 04:42:26 ? 04:43:20 .oO(How many S-expression languages can avoid turning into Lisp?) 04:44:09 The semantics tracks that of C or JavaScript or whatever. 04:44:14 So it's not Lisp. 04:46:05 jcowan: be guided by ease of writing an Emacs mode. 04:46:12 I'm not sure, but I think I'm serious. 04:46:15 *jcowan* nods. 04:46:42 Which would exclude ({ s1 ...) as the equivalent of { s1; ... }, even on Schemes where { is a symbol. 04:47:08 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:25 -!- nome [~user@c-98-244-98-30.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:49:31 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 04:50:35 ow ow ow 04:50:37 jcowan, are you talking about C there, or about, say, JavaScript? = has a subtly different meaning in the two... 04:50:38 yes it would 04:51:01 For C, I'd call it CLOBBER! or COPY!; for JavaScript, it's SET!. 04:53:50 So you are in favor of Scheme style rather than native style. 04:54:08 == also has a unsubtly different meaning in the two. 04:54:16 so much so that == should never be used in JS 04:55:18 === is EQ?, and == isn't even an equivalence relation. 04:55:50 What is == in JavaScript? 04:56:11 bizarre 04:57:04 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 04:57:39 '' == '0' // false 04:57:39 0 == '' // true 04:57:39 0 == '0' // true 04:57:39 false == 'false' // false 04:57:39 false == '0' // true 04:57:39 false == undefined // false 04:57:43 false == null // false 04:57:45 null == undefined // true 04:57:47 ' \t\r\n ' == 0 // true 04:57:49 That's what it is. 04:58:00 Yeeeeeeesh. 05:00:45 jcowan pasted "Formal definition of JavaScript ==" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122115 05:01:30 What disturbing drug was responsible for such demented looniness? It's probably so disturbing it's legal in the US, unlike cannabis. Robitussin? 05:02:34 -!- elderK [ca445bc6@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #scheme 05:02:35 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:52 Brendan Eich was trying to blend Java syntax, Self objects, and NotQuiteScheme semantics. He had a few weeks to write the spec *and* the implementation. He made mistakes. What you see is the result of bug-for-bug compatibility. 05:03:30 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 05:04:31 ] 05:04:31 ' 05:04:50 Oops. My pizzoid-object walked on the keyboard. 05:05:41 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 05:06:58 felix's Spock compiler actually translates a large subset of Scheme into JS. 05:07:40 via CPS conversion 05:21:18 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:22:48 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 05:24:38 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 05:24:39 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:32 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 05:26:33 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:19 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 05:27:19 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:46 zanea_ [~zanea@219-89-177-69.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:29:59 -!- zanea [~zanea@219-89-176-78.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:30:31 ThePing [~phycho@174.127.64.107] has joined #scheme 05:30:31 -!- ThePing [~phycho@174.127.64.107] has left #scheme 05:31:58 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38:41 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-129-253.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:40:28 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-obrecdwifwuzpmsp] has joined #scheme 05:40:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-107-161.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:40:35 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 05:41:47 -!- ignis_ [~quassel@cpe-66-74-76-152.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 05:45:21 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #scheme 05:45:44 nome [~user@c-76-120-244-110.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:46:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:47:49 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 05:52:36 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host148-236-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:53:28 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-123.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:01:41 -!- gremset [ubuntu@117.192.118.140] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:01:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:02:05 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 06:03:24 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:05:08 Posterdati [~tapioca@host117-236-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 06:06:22 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-129-253.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:06:24 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 06:06:31 -!- no-name- [~no-name@11.228.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [] 06:10:27 no-name- [~no-name@11.228.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #scheme 06:12:44 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:13 moll [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 06:18:42 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:17 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:25:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:25:29 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:38:14 -!- lusory [~bart@bb121-6-160-243.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:34 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 06:43:30 lusory [~bart@bb220-255-243-17.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 06:49:41 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:51:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:06:04 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:15:47 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-57-102-171.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:22:40 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 07:24:37 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Client Quit] 07:30:44 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 07:42:00 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfdeba.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: "Need to configure some stuff. Be back soon"] 07:42:40 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has joined #scheme 07:43:31 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfdeba.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 07:43:59 masm [~masm@2.80.194.93] has joined #scheme 07:46:02 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.163.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:59 stis [~stis@host-78-79-232-224.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 07:48:45 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:55:42 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 08:05:03 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #scheme 08:07:58 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.174.48] has joined #scheme 08:11:35 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:12:49 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-65-126.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:16:14 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 08:19:33 pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:21:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:21:59 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:22:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:24:44 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-38-4.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 08:34:54 stis_ [~stis@host-95-194-6-78.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 08:35:34 -!- stis [~stis@host-78-79-232-224.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:37:50 alaricsp [~alaric@94-194-200-54.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:42:59 mmc1 [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 08:44:23 -!- monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hello] 08:44:58 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:54:59 kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 08:58:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:08:49 stis__ [~stis@host-95-198-58-133.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 09:09:11 -!- stis_ [~stis@host-95-194-6-78.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:09:38 ah.. never name a parameter lambda, shadowing the original syntax :( 09:10:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:10:55 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:12:09 slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has joined #scheme 09:36:20 stis [~stis@host-90-233-50-25.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 09:37:11 -!- stis__ [~stis@host-95-198-58-133.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:40:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 09:40:56 foof` 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joined #scheme 11:40:58 -!- elly [debian-tor@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:46 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 11:41:49 elly [debian-tor@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 11:46:03 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.174.48] has joined #scheme 12:00:54 tupi [~david@189.60.161.65] has joined #scheme 12:07:24 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.174.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:07:46 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 12:14:26 -!- ijp [~user@host86-163-221-44.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has left #scheme 12:15:02 -!- no-name- [~no-name@11.228.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [] 12:17:42 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 12:21:27 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.188.85] has joined #scheme 12:39:23 edw [~user@li246-89.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 12:42:41 Just have to say, apropos the HtDP vs SICP paper on the front page of Hacker News right now, that reading HtDP felt like learning how to program AppleSoft ][ BASIC in 1981. In other words, barbaric. SICP was an epiphany to: it opened my mind. Now, that said, I'd been programming 18 years before I cracked it open, but it's precisely the qualities the paper takes SICP to task for that endear it to me. 12:43:05 s/ to:/:/ 12:45:15 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:46:03 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:46:35 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:47 Hm, isn't that paper old? Why is it on Hacker News? 12:52:55 Karma whores. 12:53:23 I obviously don't understand Hacker News. 12:54:32 It's infuriating, but less bad than the alternatives for nerdy time wasting. 12:57:28 don't read too much stuff on the internets 12:57:41 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:47 I read links people post on IRC. :-) 12:58:11 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 12:58:22 I often find myself having a "B-b-b-but somebody's wrong on the Internet!" moment while reading the comments there. 12:59:11 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:26 The crowd is supposed to be one of entrepreneurial hackers, but there sure are a lot of bitcoin-loving conspiracy-theorizing Android fans there. 13:03:04 I thought that's what `entrepreneurial hacker' meant! 13:03:32 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:06:20 hacker news turned into a little clone of slashdot a long time ago 13:06:46 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 13:07:01 But strangely enough, the people on Slashdot seem a lot more tolerable these days. I think because it skews older. 13:09:17 What I want is an aldaily.com that feeds the ones and zeros side of my mind. 13:12:14 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:13:22 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #scheme 13:14:40 v_v [~v_v@unaffiliated/v-v/x-3780925] has joined #scheme 13:17:53 -!- slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:49 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:28:46 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 13:48:05 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:38 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 13:50:07 yo 13:50:32 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-61.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:50:50 Hi wingo 13:51:04 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:59:12 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.188.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:59:39 -!- quackwoof [~copumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:10 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.188.85] has joined #scheme 14:07:23 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 14:13:47 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:14:02 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-162-9.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 14:14:03 Sgeo_ [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 14:14:58 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:16:49 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:23:17 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.188.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:21 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:24:12 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.188.85] has joined #scheme 14:42:43 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-164-105.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:08 -!- mmc1 [~michal@salm-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:50:08 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has joined #scheme 14:50:08 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has quit [Changing host] 14:50:08 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:52:17 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 15:01:11 -!- amoe [~amoe@cpc1-brig13-0-0-cust658.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:09:19 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:10:22 edw, HtDP is intended to teach you how to design programs, not impress you with the awesomeness of Scheme, recursion, or Computer Science in general 15:13:45 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 15:13:56 It's not meant to be fun, damnit! :-) 15:15:11 wsxiaoys [~wsxiaoys@221.239.199.158] has joined #scheme 15:15:24 hygiene is good for you 15:15:28 and eat your lexicals! 15:15:55 -!- wsxiaoys is now known as MengZhang 15:16:54 fds, programming is lots of fun 15:17:08 my students certainly enjoy learning how to design programs 15:17:37 there are some people for whom SICP gets them hooked on Scheme, or CS, or whatever 15:17:59 I took an SICP-based freshman class, and don't regret it 15:18:13 <- student hooked by SICP 15:18:21 :P 15:18:44 but i've learned more about programming from HtDP as a teacher, than from SICP as a learner 15:19:22 usually the case that one learns more by teaching though, isn't it? 15:19:33 or "just as much", "an equivalent amount", etc 15:20:06 (i don't know much about htdp; i'm sure it's pretty great!) 15:23:24 wingo, that's often true 15:24:40 but i think htdp, despite it's focus on introductory instruction in programming, has much to teach even the most experienced programmer 15:25:04 *wingo* should read it one day then 15:25:16 danking, see also http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/ 15:25:30 wingo, it's even free! 15:25:56 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfdeba.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:26:06 rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 15:26:24 -!- v_v [~v_v@unaffiliated/v-v/x-3780925] has left #scheme 15:34:45 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 15:36:14 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 15:38:37 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.188.85] has quit [Quit: ] 15:41:25 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-175-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 15:44:41 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-162-9.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:59 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:45:04 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfdeba.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 15:46:55 HG` [~HG@p579F7355.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:56:09 -!- MengZhang [~wsxiaoys@221.239.199.158] has left #scheme 15:57:47 -!- pyrony [~epic@99-105-56-162.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:43 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:00:19 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 16:02:03 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #scheme 16:05:46 -!- martinhex is now known as mhex 16:06:07 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:06:25 -!- mhex is now known as martinhex 16:12:55 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 16:17:00 pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has joined #scheme 16:17:00 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.45.135.90] has quit [Changing host] 16:17:00 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 16:19:53 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:20:52 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 16:21:48 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:33 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host117-236-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:32:32 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 16:37:17 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:41:38 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 16:41:57 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:45:34 djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 16:45:55 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.194.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:46:17 wilx [wilx@shell.sh.cvut.cz] has joined #scheme 16:46:19 Hi. 16:46:44 I am looking for Scheme grammar, possibly simplified. Are there any docs describing it/ 16:46:47 ? 16:47:02 For what purpose? 16:47:22 Implementation of Scheme or LISP like language. 16:47:39 ...for term work at school. 16:47:41 You don't use a grammar for that; you just write a simple recursive-descent parser. 16:48:02 Yes. But I need to have something to lead me. 16:48:21 You can find a simple one in Scheme48, in scheme/rts/read.scm. 16:48:54 Well, see Section 7.1 of the R5RS for a formally typeset description. 16:49:15 But it's very confusingly laid out, and poorly reflects the way Scheme is actually parsed in real systems. 16:50:05 At is a somewhat clearer exposition of what I believe is an equivalent grammar. 16:50:17 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:50:32 Well, an exposition that more closely reflects the operation of Scheme parsers, anyway; it's not for me to say whether you'll find it clearer. 16:50:40 ijp [~user@host86-163-221-44.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:52:36 Thanks. 16:54:40 pothos [~pothos@111-240-173-34.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 16:55:06 The last link will probably the most useful to me. I agree that it looks clearer. 16:56:18 be 16:56:33 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:58:57 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-88.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:01:32 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-54-117.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 17:03:00 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:08:32 turbofai` [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:14:31 -!- nome [~user@c-76-120-244-110.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:15:15 -!- turbofai` is now known as turbofail 17:18:04 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 17:21:14 sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-71-192-163-167.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:32:32 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #scheme 17:33:19 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 17:37:56 Does anyone else here pronounce `WWW' as `dub-dub-dub'? I'm about to declare it a Palo-Altoism. 17:39:53 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@94-194-200-54.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40:13 I just avoid using www at all 17:40:47 It's not. Anyone who has to say it a lot reduces to that, or further (`dah-dah-dah dot example dot com'). I know plenty of people in Cambridge who say that. 17:41:00 (and I do too) 17:43:31 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-128-34.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.233.111] has joined #scheme 17:48:06 sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@c-71-192-163-167.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:51:22 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-71-192-163-167.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:51:22 -!- sstrickl_ is now known as sstrickl 17:52:00 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.235.249] has joined #scheme 17:53:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.233.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:53:07 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 18:00:22 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:02 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.106.197] has joined #scheme 18:12:14 f8l [~f8l@213-238-105-249.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 18:14:05 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.235.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14:06 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 18:15:10 erjiang [~erjiang@adsl-108-85-5-191.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:15:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.106.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:26 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.161.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:32 Hi all, I invite everybody to check out a couple Scheme-y things I've done recently 18:16:44 Scheme in your iPhone and browser, 18:16:56 and Scheme in Linux in Javascript in your browser 18:16:57 http://notes.ericjiang.com/posts/242 18:17:04 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-223.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:18:06 Let me know about any showstopper bugs, but everything's probably buggy in some way or another 18:18:45 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 18:21:15 masm [~masm@bl15-131-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 18:30:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:30:44 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 18:32:23 erjiang: Are most of those toyish "hey, look: it's Scheme in my browser!" kinds of things; or do you envision writing programs that way? 18:32:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:17 klutometis: I'd say it wouldn't be feasible until it's compiled, 18:33:33 erm, not "feasible" but "practical" 18:33:39 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-175-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:33:47 as it's feasible right now to write client-side scripts in Scheme 18:33:59 they just run a bit slow and you have to include the entire runtime 18:34:34 JavaScript, virtual machine architecture of the future... 18:34:51 *hork*ralph*spew* 18:34:54 Excuse me. 18:35:10 Riastradh: Brave new world. 18:36:16 erjiang: You haven't seen Mark Probst's or Florian Loitsch' work, have you? 18:36:16 Don't complain, it will allow you to run Racket on Linux on x86 on JavaScript on Firefox on any system! 18:36:46 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 18:38:18 erjiang_alt [~eric@adsl-108-85-5-191.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:38:26 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@adsl-108-85-5-191.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 18:38:47 erjiang [~erjiang@adsl-108-85-5-191.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:38:57 Sorry, client crapped out there. 18:39:11 klutometis: I know of Mark Probst's JScreme, but I'm not familiar with Loitsch 18:40:13 klutometis: Actually, I have glanced at the scm2js paper 18:41:56 pjb: Python runs in the browser now, thanks to Emscripten. 18:43:35 JScreme is not so much a compiler as a translator... the lack of TCO and continuations is not great. 18:45:16 erjiang: http://www.wescheme.org/ 18:47:05 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:48:43 eli: cool. 18:51:02 HG`` [~HG@p5DC04DAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:51:52 eli: It doesn't look like I can load my rocket ship... 18:52:53 erjiang: Are you trying to use graphics? 18:53:07 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7355.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:53:19 eli: HtDP2e's prologue, of course. 18:53:29 I assume the two are related in some way 18:55:11 erjiang: Yes, but I know very little about it. 18:55:57 erjiang: If you want more details, then by coincidence dyoo just got on to #racket (he's the guy who implemented that). 18:58:29 stis [~stis@host-90-239-54-52.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 19:05:02 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@adsl-108-85-5-191.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 19:05:11 -!- erjiang_alt [~eric@adsl-108-85-5-191.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:05:23 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 19:08:18 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 19:08:41 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 19:11:41 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 19:20:05 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:21:37 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:04 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:07 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 20:04:12 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC04DAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:04:28 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:06:22 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:12:39 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:20:01 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 20:22:07 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:58 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 20:29:55 What does >> mean in this? http://board.codealife.com/index.php?topic=324.0;wap2 20:30:53 aidalgol: can't you read? 20:31:06 It's written in all characters: (define (>> message [output-port output-port]) (display message output-port) (flush-output output-port)) 20:31:39 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:32:21 -!- f8l [~f8l@213-238-105-249.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:33:16 pjb: Oh, oops... >_< I didn't see that definition. 20:33:50 I too like to have definitions before their use (Pascal school). Nonetheless, in scheme you can have forward definitions. 20:35:41 So [output-port output-port] are optional arguments? 20:36:16 No, optional arguments are declared with &optional. 20:37:01 I don't know. It's strange. 20:37:25 Is this not good example code? 20:37:50 Parts of it look fine, a few chunks are a bit ugly. 20:46:02 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:49:43 whoah... explosion on the r7rs list 20:49:47 -!- foof` is now known as foof 20:50:33 yeah, i dont know why i subscribed to it :/ 20:53:39 yeah sorry about that! 20:53:45 :) 20:59:33 If I dump an image in S48 and reload it, none of the packages I opened are opened when I re-start it with `scheme48 -i ...`, yet procedures I defined which depends on previously opened packages have valid references to those procedures. Is the entire module "in there" but inaccessible but only whatever happened to get dumped due to a reference existing within an object that's bound? 21:01:01 no-name- [~no-name@11.228.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #scheme 21:02:08 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-140-216.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:04:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-223.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:21 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 21:05:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-88.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:44 Be more specific, edw. 21:07:08 I just opened VALUE-PIPES, checked whether MAKE-PIPE is bound, dumped an image, loaded it up, and checked whether MAKE-PIPE is bound. Both times the answer was positive. 21:08:15 I'll be more accurate while I'm at it... I opened bitwise... Defined a proc that depends on BITWISE-AND. Saved the image. Quit. Restarted with the image. BITWISE-AND is defined. BITWISE-OR is not. 21:08:34 You spelled it wrong. 21:08:43 -!- djcb [~user@a88-112-253-18.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:03 *edw* RTFMs 21:09:09 bitwise-ior 21:09:15 (or bitwise-xor, if you want the other kind of `or') 21:09:29 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-237.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:09:49 Ah. *Inclusive* or... 21:10:08 This is what I get for spending time with Racket... 21:14:01 gremset [ubuntu@117.192.105.12] has joined #scheme 21:14:38 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 21:16:03 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:18:34 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-239-54-52.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:03 akkad [~user@208.72.143.42] has joined #scheme 21:20:08 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #scheme 21:22:52 ice_man [~user@CPE0024d23789ef-CM001a666a9242.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:23:29 -!- ice_man [~user@CPE0024d23789ef-CM001a666a9242.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #scheme 21:25:05 edw: Huh? 21:25:13 rudybot: eval bitwise-ior 21:25:14 eli: your sandbox is ready 21:25:15 eli: ; Value: # 21:25:19 Same name. 21:26:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:11 gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable041.134-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:43:10 kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:47:50 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:55:02 -!- samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:55:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:55:44 samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 21:56:21 *wingo* done spamming scheme-reports 21:59:32 ignis_ [~quassel@cpe-66-74-76-152.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:02:53 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:12 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 22:08:25 stepnem_ [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 22:08:41 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:55 tessier_ [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 22:09:43 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 22:09:44 gremset_ [ubuntu@117.192.98.7] has joined #scheme 22:10:43 -!- gremset [ubuntu@117.192.105.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:13:22 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:22 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:22 -!- pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:22 -!- zanea_ [~zanea@219-89-177-69.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:22 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:22 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:22 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:22 -!- EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:22 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@67-23-4-190.static.slicehost.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:22 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:23 -!- aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:23 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:23 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:13:24 -!- stepnem_ is now known as stepnem 22:14:12 -!- tessier_ [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:14:12 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 22:18:25 pyrony [~epic@office1.klout.com] has joined #scheme 22:18:37 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #scheme 22:18:37 zanea_ [~zanea@219-89-177-69.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 22:18:37 EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has joined #scheme 22:18:37 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 22:18:37 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 22:18:37 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@67-23-4-190.static.slicehost.net] has joined #scheme 22:18:37 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #scheme 22:18:37 aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has joined #scheme 22:18:37 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 22:19:03 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:03 -!- zanea_ [~zanea@219-89-177-69.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:03 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:03 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:03 -!- EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:03 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@67-23-4-190.static.slicehost.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:03 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:03 -!- aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:03 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:19:34 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #scheme 22:19:34 zanea_ [~zanea@219-89-177-69.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 22:19:34 EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has joined #scheme 22:19:34 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 22:19:34 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 22:19:34 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@67-23-4-190.static.slicehost.net] has joined #scheme 22:19:34 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #scheme 22:19:34 aoh [~aki@85.23.168.115] has joined #scheme 22:19:34 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 22:31:45 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #scheme 22:31:55 why does (null? 'nil) evaluate to #f ? 22:32:00 shouldn't it evaluate to #t ? 22:32:05 and what's the proper way to test for 'nil? 22:32:46 pattern: in scheme, there's no nil. 22:32:53 oh 22:32:56 pattern: you could (define nil 'nil) but this would be no good. 22:33:14 pattern: the only alternative is (define nil '()) but then you have to write (null? nil), not (null? 'nil) 22:33:15 is there a symbol that's equivalent to '() ? 22:33:20 none. 22:33:57 In Scheme #f () and nil are three different objects. A boolean, an empty list and a symbol. 22:34:07 i see 22:34:11 thanks for clearing that up 22:35:02 so to test to see if x is '() you'd do something like (equal? x '()) ? 22:35:16 Or use null? which is the predicate for (). 22:35:20 right 22:37:37 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.223.246] has joined #scheme 22:38:46 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-140-216.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:38:47 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 22:40:59 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:44:02 -!- copumpkin is now known as failkin 22:44:43 -!- failkin is now known as copumpkin 22:47:39 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 22:49:28 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:18 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.238.191] has joined #scheme 22:58:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:38 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 23:11:27 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:38 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 23:20:35 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:25:22 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:30:39 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 23:41:37 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:56:29 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:57:24 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 23:59:07 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-23.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:59:29 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:59:38 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme