00:03:48 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfc013.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:04:00 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f768f61.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 00:09:10 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has left #scheme 00:13:20 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:15:01 -!- Nisstyre is now known as Mark_Shuttlecock 00:20:41 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:25 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:24:30 drdo``` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 00:25:46 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 00:25:55 -!- drdo`` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:40 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:53 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 00:35:55 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:12 -!- Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Error: Out of Cheese] 00:44:46 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 00:48:18 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:51 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:54:54 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:06 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:16 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:02:45 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 01:05:17 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.153.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08:35 masm [~masm@bl15-64-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 01:10:49 Tasyne [~not4u@c-24-22-232-230.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:12:06 I've got a nice struct definition: (define-struct fun (nameopt formal body)) ... but when I try to make one: (make-fun 1 2 3) I get the error: "procedure make-fun: expects 1 argument, given 3: 1 2 3" 01:12:20 This struct clearly takes three arguments. What's up with that? 01:12:42 There are no other vars or structs named 'nameopt', 'formal', or 'body', either. 01:20:34 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-140.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:23:17 -!- Mark_Shuttlecock [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:26:37 structs... anyone? 01:29:10 Which implementation? 01:30:39 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 01:30:57 "Pretty Big"... I think I solved it... some rogue function definitions flying around in my program redefined it. 01:37:41 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-86-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:38:05 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: \o/] 01:43:22 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 01:44:14 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-92-98.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:46:12 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 01:50:17 erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 01:52:17 -!- Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-34-25-159.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:44 Tasyne: Using "Pretty Big" is a *bad* idea. 01:53:01 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:04:58 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:06:03 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 02:06:18 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-92-98.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:07:57 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:09:20 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:12:52 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-93-24.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:12:57 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-71-46-119.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:13:25 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 02:14:12 -!- simontwo_ [~simon@78.129.201.122] has quit [Quit: If there's one thing you can say about mankind, there's nothing kind about man.] 02:17:41 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-64-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:23:33 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:28:22 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-93-24.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:30:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:33:53 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 02:42:03 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 02:43:07 Riastradh: So if I want to read a utf-8 string I need to be explicit? 02:43:18 Well, what do you mean by `read a utf-8 string'? 02:43:33 (read-line), for example. 02:43:43 Perhaps you mean `I have a file encoded in UTF-8. I want to perform some operation on the sequence of Unicode code points it contains.' In that case, you might do this: 02:44:15 (call-with-input-file "foo" (lambda (input-port) (port/set-coding input-port 'UTF-8) (let loop () (if (not (eof-object? input-port)) (begin (perform-operation (read-char input-port)) (loop] 02:44:26 Ah. 02:44:27 I see. 02:45:09 Can I set the (current-input-port) to utf-8? 02:45:15 -!- alexgordon is now known as forkaffixlocals 02:45:38 Yes. 02:45:47 Nice. 02:46:25 That's relieving. 02:47:49 Hum. If I want to know the length of a string, I also need to know its coding, right? 02:48:09 I see (utf8-string-length), for example. 02:48:10 -!- forkaffixlocals is now known as alexgordon 02:48:30 In MIT Scheme, a string is a vector of octets. (It is also called a vector-8b, and you can use VECTOR-8B-LENGTH, VECTOR-8B-REF, &c., instead of STRING-LENGTH, STRING-REF, &c.) 02:48:58 STRING-LENGTH (and VECTOR-8B-LENGTH) tells you how many octets are in the string. 02:49:08 But perhaps that's not the question you want to know the answer to. 02:49:19 I see. Not necessary how many characters. 02:49:47 Or code points. 02:49:53 Perhaps instead you got a sequence of Unicode code points from somewhere, and you want to know how many you got. Well, maybe you stored them in a wide string! (A wide string is a vector of Unicode code points (represented by Scheme characters).) In that case, you can use WIDE-STRING-LENGTH. 02:50:46 Good to learn about this stuff. Thank you. 02:50:50 Or perhaps you encoded them in UTF-16LE in a string (vector-8b). In that case, you can use UTF16-LE-STRING-LENGTH. 02:50:54 I was not aware of it. 02:53:33 (There are also a couple other relevant kinds of objects: external strings are like strings, but are not stored in the Scheme heap and not copied by the garbage collector; and xstrings, which I think are largely a design mistake, can be either strings, wide strings, or external strings.) 03:00:26 jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-45-56.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 03:02:21 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:02:33 rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 03:04:29 -!- rramsden is now known as mackie551 03:12:03 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:14:04 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 03:18:08 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 03:18:53 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 03:22:44 Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 03:26:09 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:30:43 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:37:18 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:16 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:02 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 03:56:20 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 03:59:08 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:06:13 -!- infid [~infid@99-101-15-134.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:08:08 infid [~infid@99-101-15-134.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:30:44 EM03 [~dfsdfdsf@unaffiliated/em03] has joined #scheme 04:51:35 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:51:58 is racket mostly the most popular scheme ish implementation people use? chicken scheme and bigloo although used seem to not have the largest user base 04:59:15 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:02:47 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:12:49 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 05:16:50 EM03: Racket is used a lot by students, although that's not usually by choice. 05:17:33 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 05:17:55 EM03: Racket is used by a lot of people. By choice. 05:18:14 its the scheme variant I chose 05:18:21 I use Racket, Chicken, and Guile, by choice. 05:19:16 I'm not really trying to play a pusher, just countered that silly "that's not usually by choice". 05:19:40 eli: I mean, think about all the kids in intro CS. 05:20:21 erjiang: I know -- these kids wouldn't choose *any* Scheme implementation. If they had a choice, it would most likely be visual basic. 05:20:46 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:16 hmm, there are actually the same number of people in #chicken and #racket at the moment 05:22:18 visual basic :\ 05:22:21 I chose scheme 05:23:37 *cky* is currently building Racket 5.1.1 (Debian package) and Guile 2.0.1+whatever. :-) 05:24:16 I regularly git-pull those two trees. :-) Talk about using these implementations "by choice". :-) 05:24:26 how do the build times compare? 05:24:38 erjiang: Guile takes about 12 minutes to build. 05:24:45 erjiang: Racket takes a couple of hours. 05:25:06 (Clean builds, in both cases.) 05:25:15 *cky* always does a clean build, every time. 05:26:05 cky: What's your OS? 05:26:21 eli: I'm currently on Squeeze, running on x64. 05:26:29 how much do from a standard library / basic language functions do racket and things like bigloo or chicken differ? 05:26:47 Racket has everything and more. 05:27:02 cky: You'll might be happy to know that we now have a build for exactly that. 05:27:04 so I noticed 05:27:15 s/'ll// 05:27:22 EM03: hence the 50M download 05:27:30 cky: Which means that you can just get the nightly installer. 05:27:36 eli: Oh? Is that in the Racket PPA (which, last I checked, only had builds for Ubuntu distros), or somewhere else? 05:27:38 the performance is fairly decent for dynamic typing as well 05:27:39 Oh. 05:28:01 cky: No -- just the simple sh-based installer. 05:28:22 It's easy (and actually the default) to have a single-directory installation. 05:29:01 (You can also get just the tgz, if you prefer it.) 05:31:38 *nods* 05:31:39 i don't know why scheme is not more popular with business etc rather than educators 05:31:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-191-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:32:03 EM03: I think businesses that use Scheme don't feel the need to champion it. 05:32:10 Unlike Rubyists. ;-) 05:32:11 true 05:32:21 *EM03* used to be a big ruby user 05:32:51 :-) 05:33:05 but honestly I don't like ruby at all 05:33:12 more style than substance 05:33:21 I prefer minimalism 05:34:23 EM03: I've seen some truly obnoxious ruby presentations. 05:34:34 yes DHH has gave a few 05:34:34 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4275.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 05:34:38 A lot of self-congratulatory-lubrication going on. 05:34:51 its really just ruby people on some sort of level thinking they are 30x better then PHP users 05:35:50 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 05:36:33 I just liked "more style than substance" -- I've had only a short and superficial experience, but that was enough to appreciate it. 05:36:56 its a fairly hacky language 05:37:12 just makes you think a bit more than PHP and thats where 80 percent of ruby programmers come from 05:37:28 I'm not a big fan of the imperative way thoug h 05:37:53 I prefer evaluations over returns 05:39:24 I got into programming because I really loved the code, not for really a specific purpose. Many people who get into it get into it for a reason and need to accomplish just that 05:41:00 so I have a hard time using some things 05:41:02 EM03: In Ruby, most everything has a value too, just like Lisp and Scheme. I liked that. 05:41:32 EM03: So you can use, for example, foo = case bar when baz 1 when qux 2 end. 05:41:32 ruby sure .....but still the whole idea of a return value is a imperative thing 05:42:05 something returning something and returning an evaluation is a bit different 05:42:48 from a very top level ruby looks nice but once you start using some large stuff you will be like -_- 05:43:01 So, I take it your problem is that Ruby makes "progn"-style code a little too convenient? 05:43:03 Python is far more explicit and you can mix and match things so much easier , ruby is not 05:43:56 issue with ruby is its community :) who thinks they are near God and want to look down upon people ....next is the whole implicit nature of the language so its hard to see what exactly is going on, unlike Python for instance here 05:44:51 sheikra [~wy@110.187.68.144] has joined #scheme 05:45:06 eli: DHH is a polarizing figure. Some old-time rubyists (including me) was annoyed by his talk. Not to mention the horde of RoRist that poisoned the ruby-lang mailing list. 05:45:10 anybody awake? 05:45:20 EM03: no, just the new people. 05:45:24 cool! 05:45:33 yes I did like ruby better in 03 05:45:40 Does anybody use Racket here? 05:45:45 btw ruby is not that special 05:45:56 it just introduced quite a bit to a PHP programmer thats all :) 05:46:00 nome: Were you the one who pointed me at that talk? 05:46:13 eli: no, I never talked to you about ruby. 05:46:31 So who's DHH? 05:46:44 shouldn't even mention him 05:46:59 (I do remember an obnoxious three-letter acronym'ed guy that was even more annoying.) 05:47:14 hes the creator of ruby on rails 05:47:41 that just took some perl libraries ......Python zope's url to code and added an object db from smalltalk to ruby 05:47:50 but many people think he invented all of that 05:48:16 eli: oops, I assumed you were referring to DHH's talk when you said 'some obnoxious presentation'. 05:48:35 -!- LN^^ is now known as LN^off 05:50:41 nome: Yeah, he's definitely one of the obnoxious things I was referring to. 05:51:11 Is there a specific "the talk" you're referring to? 05:51:48 sheikra: yes. 05:52:13 eli: nice. how do you like it? 05:52:48 sheikra: Can't really say anything useful... 05:52:54 eli: I just tried to move from Petite Chez to Racket, and had some problems 05:52:58 sheikra: There's a small matter of "conflict of interest". 05:53:00 ;-) 05:53:16 cky: I see .. ;-) 05:53:51 sheikra: (Just that I'm one of the developers...) 05:54:00 cky: I have to find a scheme implementation that's both good and give useful error messages. Petite doesn't tell me even the name of the function which is going wrong..! 05:54:13 sheikra: Well, Racket is certainly that. 05:54:39 eli: great! then you may help me :) 05:55:00 sheikra: What's the problem? 05:55:19 eli: I found it a little strange about the stucture types 05:55:47 Yes? 05:56:05 eli: If I re-evaluate the definition, all code that depend on the constructor will break.. 05:56:36 sheikra: What do you expect? Scheme works on the basis of references, not names. 05:56:39 You'll need to give me way more details than that... 05:56:55 sheikra: When you "re-evaluate the definition", you're rebinding the name to a new structure type. 05:57:36 *eli* wonders if there's some missing context. 05:57:38 cky: but Chez will try to use the new version .. 05:57:39 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4275.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:49 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 05:57:49 eli: sorry ;-) 05:57:51 sheikra: I encourage you to lisppaste some sample code. 05:58:09 cky: It's too simple. So I just put it here: 05:58:31 eli: I have a structure Arr: (struct Arr (from to serial)) 05:58:57 eli: I want the last parameter to be "optional". So I made another function (define Arrow (lambda (from to) (Arr from to #f))) 05:59:24 eli: Then I re-evaluated the definition of (struct Arr ...) 05:59:35 rudybot: (struct Arr (from to serial)) 05:59:35 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 05:59:35 cky: Done. 05:59:38 rudybot: (define a Arr) 05:59:39 cky: Done. 05:59:42 eli: then (Arr? (Arrow 1 2)) gave me #f 05:59:42 rudybot: (struct Arr (from to serial)) 05:59:42 cky: Done. 05:59:47 rudybot: (eq? a Arr) 05:59:47 cky: ; Value: #f 05:59:51 sheikra: ^^--- 06:00:12 sheikra: That is what I meant by Scheme working on the basis of references, not names. 06:00:18 sheikra: How do you re-evaluate? 06:00:31 eli: By calling (struct Arr ...) again. See my rudybot example. 06:00:40 cky: that seems to make sense now ... 06:00:52 cky: if I consider types as first-class values ... 06:01:00 sheikra: Yep, indeed. 06:01:05 cky: But the missing context is exactly *how* it's done... 06:01:40 eli: I thought (struct) always returned a fresh object, so "how" it's done doesn't change the fact that a distinct type is bound to that name. 06:01:45 cky: So you mean that Petite Chez wasn't correct to re-use the name? 06:01:45 sheikra: In general, racket struct definitions are "generative", which means that every definition is completely new. 06:02:18 Hahahaha, "generative" in your comment is like "always returned a fresh object" in mine. :-P 06:02:30 cky: For example, if sheikra uses "pretty big" in DrRacket, then the easy solution is to avoid it... 06:02:50 eli: Right, gotcha. I always just assumed people used #lang racket unless they say otherwise. 06:02:56 But perhaps that's an invalid assumption. 06:03:43 The more popular issue is trying to actually do development on the repl, which can be very broken in very hard to find ways. 06:04:06 cky: which language is the R5RS scheme? 06:05:12 eli: Oh, totally agree. 06:05:16 eli: PLT scheme seems to be slow some time ago, that's why I moved to Petite. Now it's a lot faster than Petite! Are you in the group long enough to know why this change happen? 06:05:26 sheikra: I don't understand your question. 06:05:49 sheikra: Do yourself a big favor: avoid working in the r5rs language... 06:05:56 sheikra: When was it too slow? 06:05:57 cky: oh, I mean #lang ... pertty big etc ... 06:06:06 eli: uhh.. several years ago 06:06:07 sheikra: I see. Follow eli's advice. 06:06:28 eli: which language do I use then? 06:06:32 sheikra: The #lang r5rs is strictly for people who know what they're doing. 06:06:44 sheikra: Use "auto-detect language" (or whatever that's called now), and use #lang racket. 06:06:57 nome: Definitely that guy -- it's like 15 minutes that he's talking very loudly, but there's nearly zero content. 06:07:07 cky: Is #lang racket a super set of R5RS? 06:07:21 sheikra: Uh, it's...it's.... 06:07:36 sheikra: Let's just say it's best to treat Racket as separate from R5RS, R6RS, etc. 06:07:38 sheikra: It's mostly a superset, the only big difference you'll see is the lack of mutable pairs. 06:08:15 eli: lack of mutable pairs, in racket? 06:08:21 rudybot: (define stringlit "Does Racket have immutable string literals?") 06:08:21 cky: Done. 06:08:26 Yes. `set-car!' etc. 06:08:31 rudybot: (string-set! stringlit 0 #\d) 06:08:31 cky: error: string-set!: expects type as 1st argument, given: "Does Racket have immutable string literals?"; other arguments were: 0 #\d 06:08:32 eli: I never thought pairs should be mutable ;-) 06:08:51 sheikra: In that case you're likely to not see any difference. 06:09:07 Well, other than the fact that you'll have waaay more libraries to use. 06:09:36 eli: Is there a pattern binding "let" for structures? I'd love to have that 06:09:55 sheikra: re speed, the jit was introduced about 5 years ago, and has been improved since there, there was even a relatively big jump recently. (Around two weeks ago.) 06:10:16 eli: that's cool! 06:10:41 It was one of the last-minute additions to 5.1.1, so if you get that it'll be even better. 06:10:55 eli: It beats petite by a lot in on of my code .. 06:10:59 how long have you been using scheme? 06:11:33 EM03: I think may be 7 years, on and off ;-) 06:11:41 I'm jealous 06:11:53 sheikra: Why do you want a local struct? 06:12:11 eli: no. I mean destructuring binding 06:12:25 eli: so that I can take the components more conveniently 06:13:11 *eli* turns off that annoying DHH thing. 06:13:26 :-) 06:13:28 eli: Is it a better design decision that structures to be generative? 06:13:40 Phew, that screeching voice was annoying. 06:13:40 sheikra: I 100% think so. 06:13:53 sheikra: Sure, here: 06:13:58 rudybot: (struct foo (x y)) 06:13:58 eli: your sandbox is ready 06:13:58 eli: error: eval:1:0: struct: illegal use of signature form in: (struct foo (x y)) 06:14:10 *eli* slaps rudybot 06:14:14 rudybot: (struct blah (x y)) 06:14:14 eli: error: eval:1:0: struct: illegal use of signature form in: (struct blah (x y)) 06:14:22 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:14:23 eli: Do you need to "init racket" first? 06:14:28 rudybot: (version) 06:14:28 eli: ; Value: "5.1" 06:14:40 rudybot: init 06:14:40 eli: your sandbox is ready 06:14:46 rudybot: init racket 06:14:46 eli: your racket sandbox is ready 06:15:04 cky: (I was trying to figure out if I used a different language last time) 06:15:07 rudybot: (struct blah (x y)) 06:15:07 eli: Done. 06:15:10 *nods* 06:15:24 rudybot: (match (blah 1 2) [(blah a b) (+ a b)]) 06:15:24 eli: ; Value: 3 06:15:27 sheikra: ^ 06:16:00 Fancy. :- 06:16:03 :-) 06:16:07 eli: yeah! 06:16:16 sheikra: (There are also non-generative structs -- search the docs for `prefab'. But they're used only in some rarer cases...) 06:16:17 -!- LN^off is now known as LN^^ 06:16:18 eli: that's what I have been looking for! 06:17:07 eli: generative ones make sense. once the structure is redefined, we shouldn't allow the old values to behave as this type .. 06:18:00 cad vs cdr vs first / rest? which do most people use? 06:18:33 EM03: Most people use `car' and `cdr', unfortunately. 06:18:44 (Me included, even more unfortunately.) 06:18:53 what should I use? hehe 06:19:08 EM03: yes, unfortunately. and they are not very good ;-) 06:19:16 Whatever's more conveniently. 06:19:36 I'd recommend not using pairs at all .. 06:19:39 hmm 06:19:44 Or go with `head' and `tail'. 06:19:57 must remember I'm fairly new 06:20:15 EM03: It really doesn't matter much. 06:20:15 just doing web programming so all my structures are fairly simple and minimal as I make them 06:20:45 eli: I found that lots of bugs are from using lists to represent structures.. 06:21:04 in racket? 06:21:09 EM03: If you're a newbie, then on thing to take out of sheikra's advice is to not abuse lists and pairs too much -- it's *much* better to use structs. 06:21:24 eli: illegal field access from something like cadadr will not be caught until the last minute 06:21:24 sheikra: (Yeah, I completely agree.) 06:21:43 I heard a professor say not to use struts much as they were not in the scheme mind set 06:21:59 structs 06:22:10 EM03: Nonsense. 06:22:14 eli++ 06:22:19 EM03: structs are more general than pairs 06:22:20 EM03: Tell that to your professor. 06:22:23 wonder why he said that 06:22:36 Which school is that? 06:22:46 -!- Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #scheme 06:22:47 EM03: pairs are just structs with two fields 06:22:50 EM03: A cons is basically a struct with car and cdr members. 06:22:53 sheikra: Jinx! 06:23:12 univ. of florida 06:23:35 ...this isn't the first time I've heard of rubbish being promulgated by your university. :-( 06:23:46 EM03: BTW, "you can tell ..." is serious -- 06:24:28 as evidence you can point that they're part of R6RS now, that before that it was a popular library, and if he knows anything about r6rs (and dislikes it), then tell him that it'll stay in r7rs. 06:26:11 -!- infid [~infid@99-101-15-134.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:20 sheikra: BTW, you can also use typed racket and get some more speed. 06:26:32 i dont goto u o f anymore btw 06:26:40 univ of miami now 06:27:18 eli: I'll surely try it :-) 06:27:33 infid [~infid@69.198.100.228] has joined #scheme 06:28:05 rudybot: (struct Arr (from to serial)) 06:28:05 sheikra: your sandbox is ready 06:28:05 sheikra: error: eval:1:0: struct: illegal use of signature form in: (struct Arr (from to serial)) 06:28:21 uhh ... ?? 06:28:47 rudybot: (init) 06:28:47 sheikra: error: eval:1:0: init: use of a class keyword is not in a class top-level in: (init) 06:28:53 I think I know what the problem is. 06:29:51 eli: oh, I have another question. How do I display the contents of a structure without writing a custom print function? 06:30:22 rudybot: (display (Arr 1 2)) 06:30:22 cky: error: Arr: expects 3 arguments, given 2: 1 2 06:30:26 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 06:30:27 rudybot: (display (Arr 1 2 3)) 06:30:27 cky: ; stdout: "#" 06:30:32 Hmpf. 06:30:58 cky: how do you make it show the 1 2 3 inside? 06:31:04 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 06:31:23 rudybot: (Arr 1 2 3) 06:31:23 sheikra: error: reference to undefined identifier: Arr 06:32:09 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:32:30 all my programming friends think I'm nuts to use scheme 06:32:50 EM03: what do they use then? 06:33:00 some java 06:33:03 .net 06:33:09 and a ton of php 06:33:51 sheikra: Each user has their own sandbox. 06:33:59 sheikra: (Re rudybot.) 06:34:33 EM03: you are on the right track 06:34:49 offby1: see pull-request. 06:34:54 rudybot: (struct T (a b c)) 06:34:54 sheikra: error: eval:1:0: struct: illegal use of signature form in: (struct T (a b c)) 06:35:04 rudybot: (struct Sheikra (a b c)) 06:35:04 sheikra: error: eval:1:0: struct: illegal use of signature form in: (struct Sheikra (a b c)) 06:35:08 sheikra: To play with that, tell rudybot "init racket". 06:35:17 It's using the older `scheme' language. 06:35:18 rudybot: init racket 06:35:18 sheikra: your racket sandbox is ready 06:35:18 sheikra: what do you use? 06:35:26 eli: got it :) 06:35:40 rudybot: (struct foo (x y)) 06:35:40 eli: Done. 06:35:45 rudybot: (struct foo (x y) #:transparent) 06:35:45 eli: Done. 06:35:51 rudybot: (struct Arr (from to serial)) 06:35:51 sheikra: Done. 06:35:52 rudybot: (foo 1 2) 06:35:52 eli: ; Value: #(struct:foo 1 2) 06:36:06 rudybot: (define oldArr? Arr?) 06:36:06 sheikra: Done. 06:36:19 rudybot: (define Arrow (lambda (from to) (Arr from to #f))) 06:36:19 sheikra: Done. 06:36:19 sheikra: And if it'd use the racket language, then the printout would be (foo 1 2) 06:36:31 rudybot: (Arr? (Arrow 1 2)) 06:36:32 sheikra: ; Value: #t 06:36:55 offby1: Probably still keep the `begin' though, otherwise people won't be able to redefine things. 06:37:55 eli: can I change the language after racket is running? 06:38:23 rudybot: (Arr? (Arrow 1 2)) 06:38:23 sheikra: ; Value: #t 06:38:27 sheikra: Are you using drracket? 06:38:39 rudybot: (display (Arr? (Arrow 1 2))) 06:38:39 sheikra: ; stdout: "#t" 06:39:00 rudybot: (struct Arr (from to serial)) 06:39:00 sheikra: Done. 06:39:27 rudybot: (display (Arr? (Arrow 1 2))) 06:39:27 sheikra: ; stdout: "#f" 06:41:22 eli: I'm using emacs 06:42:56 rudybot: (display (Arr? (Arrow 1 2))) 06:42:56 sheikra: ; stdout: "#f" 06:43:02 rudybot: (display (oldArr? (Arrow 1 2))) 06:43:02 sheikra: ; stdout: "#t" 06:45:19 eli: I just tried it. The syntax check if very nice 06:46:01 eli: I would say wow 06:46:55 sheikra: Yeah, it can be very useful. 06:47:08 As for Emacs, I can just suggest avoiding any real work on the repl. 06:47:26 Put it in files (that start with a #lang line) and load into the repl. 06:47:42 I think that geiser had something to make it easy. 06:47:50 eli: normally I use scheme-send-last-sexp etc .. 06:48:01 There's also an iinteractive thing I wrote that can help. 06:48:14 (Yeah, that how you end up with these problem.) 06:48:20 *eli* crashes now 06:48:21 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:48:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-191-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:48:30 eli: Is there an emacs support for "jump to definition"? 06:48:52 I don't know, but try that geiser thing, it's probably the closest. 06:48:59 eli: yep. the interactive thing can't locate errors 06:49:52 are you talking about my thing? 06:50:02 EM03: I suggest these posts http://existentialtype.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/teaching-fp-to-freshmen/ 06:50:20 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 06:50:26 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:50:29 eli: certainly not. I was talking about the normal scheme-mode of emacs 06:50:47 Then obviously it can't 06:51:01 In any case, I'm really crashing now. 06:51:05 eli: You wrote geiser? 06:51:16 no 06:53:25 eli: several incidents. getting worse each time, I think. RubyConf 2004, at the end of his first-ever RoR presentation someone asked why use RoR as opposed to something else. DHH replied you'd be crazy not to. It was an unusual response, but was still OK. Then the flood of RoRists into the ruby-talk mailing list prompted some to urge him to create his own mailing list. He resisted for some time. At this point the noise was too high for 06:53:25 me and I also got busy with work (putting in scheme at work!), so I left the ruby community. Later on he also said bad programmers are not on Mac. May be I was just being too sensitive. 06:54:23 *bad programmers are on non-Mac. 06:55:49 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:58:38 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:58:58 well, nostalgia time is over for me. good night all. 07:01:37 you guys like Python at all? 07:01:41 I do enjoy some Python 07:03:58 "Object-oriented programming is eliminated entirely from the introductory curriculum, because it is both anti-modular and anti-parallel by its very nature, and hence unsuitable for a modern CS curriculum." 07:04:02 Interesting 07:04:43 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 07:04:53 jewel: only from introductory curriculum though. they will learn it later 07:05:32 where is the series of posts? 07:10:23 jewel: that's Bob Harper's blog 07:12:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18:58 I still can't get to the line number of errors from emacs even with (load ...) 07:24:56 -!- sheikra [~wy@110.187.68.144] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:25:24 sheikra [~wy@110.187.68.144] has joined #scheme 07:25:55 it seems that I lost my connection 07:28:40 stis [~stis@host-78-79-198-148.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 07:31:57 EM03: Python is not too bad, but scheme is a lot better 07:32:05 oh yea I agree 07:32:10 my boss likes Python though 07:32:19 and its much better than PHP etc 07:32:43 so I can turn some stufff into scheme as I learn but python for production stuff right now 07:33:12 EM03: yes. learning scheme will improve your understanding of python 07:34:09 EM03: have you read "The Little Schemer" by Dan Friedman? 07:35:09 not totally but will read it right now :) 07:35:24 scheme is a language I can "love" python is a language I can like 07:35:30 and i don't like or love many languages 07:36:30 likewise 07:37:01 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:37:17 Python is also relatively ubiquitous now. Any scheme you're likely to find will be fairly limited. 07:37:21 EM03: hmm .. I try to not love any language ;-) 07:37:34 If I don't love a language why would I use it? 07:37:35 And python libraries are python libraries, but every scheme has its own bindings etc. 07:38:22 XTL: practically speaking python is more popular, but Scheme teaches us more 07:39:02 Yes. Python is cute in places, but scheme can be genuinely fascinating :) 07:39:12 EM03: scheme contains good parts and bad parts, and The Little Schemer contains only the good parts 07:41:32 I'm a very close minded person, I'm highly productive under certain conditions. I used to study engineering. I know there is always a better way and I want to use the best way possible or at least of what I can find 07:41:38 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:41:49 I just can't use PHP all day work and be happy :( 07:44:13 or ruby or lua or any of that other stuff. Python I can handle though 07:45:24 the little schemer is pretty old sheikra 07:47:01 EM03: yep. it contains some timeless things 07:47:18 still all pretty valid even with racket sheikra ? 07:47:33 EM03: yes 07:47:58 EM03: it basically teaches you lambda calculus 07:48:01 I will buy it now 07:48:19 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:56 how much has changed since this book for the core language sheikra ? 07:51:42 EM03: I'm pretty sure everything in that book still runs ;-) 07:52:26 hopefully this book will stretch my mind 07:52:35 i need something to stretch my mind 07:53:01 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-140.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 07:54:28 EM03: try SICP 07:54:50 EM03: If you are not stretched enough, there are also The Seasoned Schemer 07:54:50 EM03: and then The Reasoned Schemer 07:55:44 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-213.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:00:49 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.246] has joined #scheme 08:09:13 -!- Tasyne [~not4u@c-24-22-232-230.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:09:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:10:08 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:16:52 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-140.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:18:56 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 08:20:45 -!- monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hello] 08:23:46 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:29:05 what is SICP? 08:29:46 A book. 08:30:08 EM03: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_and_Interpretation_of_Computer_Programs 08:30:08 http://tinyurl.com/3yvgmw 08:30:11 First hit at google. 08:30:13 ah 08:30:15 sorry hehe 08:32:59 -!- LN^^ is now known as LN^off 08:34:00 can the word procedure be used as the same way as function in scheme? or is there some different I'm not seeing 08:38:42 xwl [~user@123.108.223.27] has joined #scheme 08:40:39 generally, function does not modify programm state (like a math function, it only returns a value) 08:40:48 `pure function' 08:41:17 in that same thought can procedures return values in this sense? 08:41:35 yes of course 08:41:49 append vs append!, for example 08:42:02 append returns a new list, while append! modifies the old one 08:42:34 but i think in sicp they dont distinguish between pure functions and procedures, they just call everything a procedure 08:43:09 From what I understood of Riastradh's explanation, a function is a mathematical concept. A procedure can be an implementation of a function 08:44:10 (or it can just be a procedure that implements a non-purely functional algorithm) 08:44:21 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-71-46-119.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:44:39 hmm what if there is no mathematical concept? 08:44:48 |10:44| ( sjamaan) (or it can just be a procedure that implements a non-purely functional algorithm) 08:45:07 tru 08:45:46 So procedures are implementations 08:47:41 kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 08:49:30 -!- jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-45-56.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:51:52 A procedure involves a series of operations, rather than being formulaic in nature. 08:52:21 There's no formal distinction in scheme. 08:55:16 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 08:56:47 impulse150 [~impulse15@daimi-pat.daimi.au.dk] has joined #scheme 09:02:02 -!- elly [debian-tor@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:32 elly [debian-tor@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 09:06:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 09:07:31 sheikra_ [~wy@110.187.68.144] has joined #scheme 09:09:17 -!- sheikra [~wy@110.187.68.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:10:25 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 09:13:26 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:15:11 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:42 stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-82-132.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 09:36:11 -!- stis [~stis@host-78-79-198-148.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41:35 -!- impulse150 [~impulse15@daimi-pat.daimi.au.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:45:49 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 09:47:31 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 09:56:57 masm [~masm@bl15-64-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:57:54 -!- sheikra_ [~wy@110.187.68.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:59:38 sheikra [~wy@110.187.68.144] has joined #scheme 10:02:41 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:14:57 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:32 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 10:23:37 thoolihan [~Tim@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 10:29:02 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:29:46 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 10:30:09 -!- sheikra [~wy@110.187.68.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:31:10 -!- amoe [~amoe@cpc1-brig13-0-0-cust658.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:38:15 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:43:20 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 10:52:58 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 10:53:54 -!- mackie551 [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:51 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:11 -!- stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-82-132.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:45 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:05 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 11:09:01 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.250.248] has joined #scheme 11:09:41 Hi all! 11:14:19 rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 11:16:39 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 11:19:41 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:47 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:15 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:20:41 hello 11:23:38 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 11:26:41 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29:58 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:21 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 11:40:12 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #scheme 11:41:19 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 11:42:51 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 11:58:18 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:25 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:05:30 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:12:39 slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has joined #scheme 12:12:52 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:13:19 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 12:17:35 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 12:20:02 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:21:15 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:27:12 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:29:10 -!- rramsden [~rramsden@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:32 dfeuer [~dfeuer@pool-108-48-38-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 12:32:32 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@pool-108-48-38-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:32:32 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 12:40:26 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 12:41:08 lolcow [~lolcow@196.215.49.168] has joined #scheme 12:41:40 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:02 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 12:44:44 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:11 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 12:48:40 -!- xwl [~user@123.108.223.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:49:07 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 13:13:52 xeron [xeron@xeron.us] has joined #scheme 13:17:05 pjb: Hi there. 13:17:33 Just wanted to thank again for the collector thing. It's become very clear to me. 13:24:14 yop 13:25:11 I'm trying to figure out how to use define-syntax correctly, I merely/barely understood syntax-rules by now 13:25:43 would it be possible for me to do something like, in python, if else , with this syntax-rules ? 13:27:31 the thing is, using syntax-rules I should define 'if' as a keyword as well as 'else' here ? since it's not the first one (?) 13:29:47 Pepe_: all syntactic macros need to have the macro keyword as the first part. so what you intend is not possible 13:30:44 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 13:31:28 oh, hum 13:31:44 xwl [~user@123.108.223.27] has joined #scheme 13:35:34 does someone know any good article to learn stuff like that ? (define-syntax / syntax-rules and so on) 13:36:53 http://www.xs4all.nl/~hipster/lib/scheme/gauche/define-syntax-primer.txt is often recommended in here 13:37:20 I have to confess that I haven't read it all. :-\ 13:41:14 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 13:41:25 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 13:41:45 sheikra [~wy@110.187.68.144] has joined #scheme 13:42:08 fds: thanks 13:42:10 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 13:48:34 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:49:05 I noticed that racket evals "#(1 2 3)" as a vector whereas in Scheme48, it must be quoted i.e. "'#(1 2 3)". The Scheme48 interpretation seems more correct. Thoughts? 13:49:20 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 13:51:23 Actually, Racket is wrong, whereas S48 is correct, based on my reading of R[67]RS. 13:51:58 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 13:53:36 I think that many Schemes have self-evaluating vectors. I don't know of any reason they should be considered incorrect, but that could just be my ignorance. 13:54:09 I'm not sure why some Scheme don't allow self-evaluating empty lists either. 13:54:13 Chicken does the same as Racket, but vectors are not self-evaluating. 13:54:31 Oh? 13:54:32 No, Chicken requires you to quote the vector 13:54:53 So it does the same as s48 13:54:58 s/some Scheme/some Schemes/ 13:55:25 () means calling some notional null procedure with no arguments. What would thay return? An empty list? Undefined? 13:55:40 In MIT Scheme it just means the empty list 13:55:48 I might be biased because that was my first Scheme 13:55:53 I later had to learn that it should be quoted 13:55:59 I mean, it doesn't mean that, but looking at it, it's a degenerated procedure invocation to me. 13:56:10 s/degenerated/degenerate/ 13:56:10 Yeah, I suppose. 13:56:42 Alls I'm sayin' is that "()" is ambiguous. 13:56:50 (apply) 13:57:20 in Racket it does actually represent the ``empty'' call. 13:57:30 I have this simple code: http://pastebin.com/e7P9mNTK 13:57:50 When I run it the expected output is ((c a d e b f) 1 1) but it keeps showing the output in the URl. 13:58:02 Would someone please explain this behaviour? 13:58:18 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:58:50 soveran [~soveran@200-42-23-2.dup.prima.net.ar] has joined #scheme 13:58:57 I don't see how it would hurt anyone to say that () was the empty list though. 13:59:38 I mean, I can see that it could be ambiguous from a `logical' perspective, but an arbitrary decision could be made, couldn't it? 14:00:30 (I'm actually more interested in arguments for/against self-evaluating vectors, so please talk about that too. :-P) 14:00:46 Yeah. But requiring quoting of all data simplifies the reader, no? 14:01:09 Quite possibly 14:01:37 So it can be transformed e.g. '(1 2 3) => (list 1 2 3) and '#(1 2 3) => (vector 1 2 3). 14:02:29 But not quite, as quote doesn't do that to lists... 14:02:43 You know, dots and all... 14:02:46 Right, but why is '# preferred over just #? Does # have any other meaning in Scheme that could cause problems? I don't think so. 14:03:12 Bahman: That is an insane procedure. 14:03:21 I don't know, I'm just thinking aloud. :-) 14:03:39 I should be leaving though. I'll check the scrollback later. o/ 14:03:44 edw: Why? I'm just doing "the little schemer" problems. 14:04:03 fds: Future extension. Same reason [] and {} aren't (weren't?) allowed to be used as alternatives for () 14:04:22 Bahman: First (and second) of all, it's 24 lines long and has tons of repetition. 14:05:07 Good. Lesson learned. 24 lines is normally above average for a function in scheme. 14:06:00 edw: Forget the repetitions. It's a beginners' book so the function is not optimised. 14:06:06 fds: if anything # has too many meanings# 14:06:18 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:06:44 fds: #\a #t #f #(foo) #vu8(3) #e #i #b #o #d #x #' #` ... 14:06:59 Is that code from The Little Scheme? 14:07:08 Uh, Schemer... 14:07:18 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:12:07 Yes. 14:12:58 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 14:13:29 -!- drdo``` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:14:11 The description of the procedure doesn't seem to agree with the code; what's the (col '() 0 0) there for? 14:14:29 edw: That desc is mine :-) 14:14:55 edw: To start with an empty list and 0 for finding right and left matches. 14:15:26 Then the collector adds matches to list and increases the related number. 14:16:43 Bahman: after all the collectors have been run (so to speak) you still have all those built up conses. 14:17:45 I thought ((null? lat) ...) is the expression that returns the return value. Is that right? 14:18:25 Bahman: I'm not talking about that clause, but the others 14:19:01 ijp``: When those conses are returned to REPL? 14:19:06 I mean which expression. 14:19:40 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:45 all three other clauses have conses to do after they do their recursive calls 14:20:36 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 14:21:59 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:22:33 ijp``: Alright I get it so far. Now, when they are returned to REPL? 14:23:05 The last expression which gets called is that ((null? ...). So it's return value is the return value of the function, right? 14:23:15 Bahman: no 14:23:41 Take (multiinsertLR 'x 'a 'b '(a) list) for example 14:24:04 it will make a recursive call with (multiinsertLR 'x 'a 'b '() some-collector) 14:24:36 but then it still has to cons b and x onto the result of that 14:26:01 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:26:26 In much the same way as if I do (+ 1 (+ a b)), I still have to + 1 after computing (+ a b) 14:26:39 ijp``: I see how it works. Thank you 14:28:18 np 14:29:01 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 14:33:29 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 14:43:27 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 14:50:40 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 15:07:05 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-64-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:10 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:11:51 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:17:12 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 15:22:00 XTL [~XTL@84.248.106.251] has joined #scheme 15:24:56 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:28:00 -!- xwl [~user@123.108.223.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:33:26 -!- infid [~infid@69.198.100.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35:07 infid [~infid@99-101-15-134.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:45 drdo``` [~user@93.108.205.91] has joined #scheme 15:51:29 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51:38 masm [~masm@bl15-64-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 15:52:32 az [~az@p4FE4ED77.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:52:55 czakian [~czakian@c-98-223-184-248.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:54:19 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 15:55:27 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 15:59:11 erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 16:06:53 ymasory [~ymasory@frank.ldc.upenn.edu] has joined #scheme 16:12:29 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 16:12:41 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:10 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 16:15:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-3.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:21:50 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:23:40 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:26 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:38 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:26:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:32:23 Tasyne [~not4u@c-24-22-232-230.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:32:45 -!- soveran [~soveran@200-42-23-2.dup.prima.net.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:50 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:35:37 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-3.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:38:58 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:40:25 mippymoe [~mippiemoe@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:41:29 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:08 -!- mippymoe [~mippiemoe@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:43:45 mippymoe [~mippymoe@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:44:17 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:20 -!- mippymoe [~mippymoe@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:47 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 16:45:45 mippymoe [~mippymoe8@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:46:18 -!- mippymoe [~mippymoe8@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:11 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:49:10 bubo [~bubo@178-190-147-63.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 16:59:29 -!- bubo [~bubo@178-190-147-63.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:01:08 bubo [~bubo@91-114-176-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 17:02:01 ijp``: True! I suppose I should've said `#(', because there's no way that '#( is any less ambiguous than #(. The ' doesn't seem to me to add anything. 17:03:13 -!- sheikra [~wy@110.187.68.144] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:54 -!- mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:05:24 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:06:22 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 17:10:46 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 17:11:52 edw, Scheme48 is not `more correct' for refusing to evaluate #(1 2 3). Both Racket and Scheme48 are correct, with respect to the R5RS, for evaluating (quote #(1 2 3)) to #(1 2 3); neither is incorrect, with respect to the R5RS, for any choice of consequences of evaluating #(1 2 3). 17:14:51 sjamaan, to clarify: I use the term `function' to mean a mathematical function, i.e. function f is a set of pairs such that if (x, y) \in f and (x, y') \in f then y = y'. I use the term `procedure' to mean either a general description of a computation, or a particular entity in a programming language such as Scheme realizing such a description. A procedure may be represented by a function (e.g., as in the R5RS, Section 7.2), and a function may 17:15:08 a function may... 17:15:17 ...be computed by a procedure. 17:33:41 -!- nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:33 lbc__ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 17:40:22 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:42:02 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 17:42:40 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 17:42:47 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:42:47 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 17:44:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46:24 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:50:39 HG` [~HG@93.192.84.65] has joined #scheme 17:52:45 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 17:53:41 soveran [~soveran@200-42-23-2.dup.prima.net.ar] has joined #scheme 17:57:56 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f768f61.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:58:08 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4d0663c8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 18:01:01 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:02:11 -!- LN^off is now known as LN^^ 18:04:05 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:08:35 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-140.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:13:30 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has joined #scheme 18:16:31 mippymoe89 [~mippymoe8@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:42 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C36A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:24:37 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-64-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:45 -!- czakian [~czakian@c-98-223-184-248.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:41 masm [~masm@bl15-64-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 18:33:06 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has left #scheme 18:34:08 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:34:19 -!- HG` [~HG@93.192.84.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:36:17 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 18:36:40 f8l [~f8l@77-254-75-76.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 18:38:56 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has left #scheme 18:39:44 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:44:28 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 18:45:42 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:45:43 -!- LN^^ is now known as LN^off 18:50:25 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 18:52:27 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:54:07 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:41 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 18:54:48 groovy2shoes [~guv@wvc32564rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:54:48 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@wvc32564rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 18:54:48 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 18:58:06 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 18:59:56 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:00:32 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 19:00:53 Counterspell [~cspell@38.98.50.98] has joined #scheme 19:03:57 -!- LN^off is now known as LN^^ 19:04:34 Totaler Mist. Hat der Phil mal wieder gephailt[tm] 19:08:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-115.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:09:05 Blink? 19:10:54 Riastradh: You should document 'src/runtime/process.scm'. There are some delightful procedures there. 19:13:26 rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:15:13 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:16:54 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 19:17:10 -!- LN^^ is now known as LN^off 19:20:52 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@frank.ldc.upenn.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:01 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:23:42 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 19:30:09 -!- Counterspell [~cspell@38.98.50.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:10 -!- elly [debian-tor@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:00 Counterspell [~cspell@38.98.50.98] has joined #scheme 19:35:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-115.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:39:17 elly [debian-tor@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 19:42:25 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:43:19 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 19:43:25 -!- XTL [~XTL@84.248.106.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:54:28 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 19:54:48 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:54:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-115.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:58:13 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C36A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:19 stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-197-135.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 20:07:30 After nearly a half-decade on #scheme, I've come to the conclusion that minisculism (writing in all-lowercase) is a "tragedy of the commons." 20:08:02 why? 20:08:20 what's minisculism 20:08:23 The shared resource, in this case, is the time require to parse unadorned sentences; we might as well be writing in scriptura continua. 20:08:26 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:30 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-168-232.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:16 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 20:09:41 that would be at least look pretty 20:09:46 s,be,, 20:09:58 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-171-155.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:59 SCRIPTURACONTINUALOOKSPRETTYHEHMAYBEYOURERIGHT 20:10:05 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 20:10:17 klutometis: in handwriting 20:10:24 C-Keen: oh, indeed 20:10:44 anyway; i've had enough of the shift key today. 20:11:54 klutometis: where you referring to pygospa? 20:12:16 Hm? 20:12:21 What did I do? :) 20:12:59 klutometis: that would translate to: Total crap, has Phil phailed (sic!) again[tm] 20:13:36 pygospa: nothing in particular :) 20:13:45 *pygospa* is puzzled 20:14:06 21:04 < pygospa> Totaler Mist. Hat der Phil mal wieder gephailt[tm] 20:14:18 about 2 hours ago 20:14:35 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:14:46 anyway, now to something completely different... 20:15:02 Did I post that in here? 20:15:11 Phailen; heh. I love Deutschlish. 20:15:21 pygospa: yes without doubts 20:15:32 (doubt?) 20:16:13 Hm. That was an accident. That should have gone into another channel -.- 20:16:23 klutometis: which could be considered a pun on the word fehlen which means missing 20:16:24 Sorry, for that, I must have switched tabs without noticing. 20:16:40 pygospa: no worries :) We are entertained 20:17:11 And actually, its a running gag, as "Phil" (the persons name) and "Phail" are nearly similar words ;) 20:17:50 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 20:18:25 Wow; triple pun. I was thinking of "mir faellt es ein;" but that's a totally different verb. 20:18:52 I love puns :) 20:19:36 No pun in ten did. 20:19:49 hi mario-goulart :) 20:20:04 Hi. :-) 20:23:54 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.250.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:38:57 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: groovy2shoes] 20:42:53 -!- bubo [~bubo@91-114-176-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:02 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.215.97] has joined #scheme 20:49:46 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable182.177-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:51:34 ymasory [~ymasory@frank.ldc.upenn.edu] has joined #scheme 20:52:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:24 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:06 -!- pygospa is now known as TrauerTraene666 20:57:16 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:57:47 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:02:04 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:02:29 -!- f8l [~f8l@77-254-75-76.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 21:03:31 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:39 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 21:03:50 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 21:05:13 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:50 -!- TrauerTraene666 is now known as derInder 21:06:53 -!- derInder is now known as Gespraechspartne 21:06:59 -!- Gespraechspartne is now known as person1 21:07:13 -!- person1 is now known as person2 21:07:21 -!- person2 is now known as person1 21:07:29 -!- person1 is now known as person2 21:09:05 -!- soveran [~soveran@200-42-23-2.dup.prima.net.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:15 -!- person2 is now known as pygospa 21:13:16 -!- stis_ [~stis@host-90-235-197-135.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:42 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 21:38:39 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 21:39:42 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #scheme 21:41:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-115.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:07 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 21:44:13 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:49:14 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable182.177-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: --> Put something intelligent here when I'm more bored <--] 21:51:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 21:59:45 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:55 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.215.97] has left #scheme 22:06:40 atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #scheme 22:08:53 Smug lisp weenie task of the day accomplished: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2514799 22:12:21 rpg [~rpg@173-119-54-240.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #scheme 22:13:34 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:20:24 haml just looks like a different syntax over html 22:22:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 22:33:33 A evolutionary one-dimensional cellular automaton has to expand from the center or given its size, black bits can suddenly appear? 22:36:03 Oops, wrong channel. Sorry. 22:40:54 I wonder if the black bits in bananas are spiders eggs 22:47:50 -!- rpg [~rpg@173-119-54-240.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:52 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 22:55:24 Good evening 22:56:58 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:58:45 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:46 jonrafkind: they're nanobot delivery vessels. 22:59:57 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@frank.ldc.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:05 it was a reference to the mighty boosh 23:15:15 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:51 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-46-77.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:20:11 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 23:29:44 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-37-52.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 23:31:30 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 23:42:20 edw: +1 to your rant. 23:46:34 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:46:58 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:55:58 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 23:56:58 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme