00:01:17 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 00:04:53 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-71-46-119.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:05:27 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:48 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 00:09:42 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:10:43 -!- viorel [~viorel@ool-44c70d72.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: viorel] 00:11:52 knknk [~knknk@cpc2-aztw22-2-0-cust6.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 00:24:20 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:27:23 -!- Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:27:43 viorel [~viorel@ool-44c70d72.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:29:26 -!- viorel [~viorel@ool-44c70d72.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 00:33:34 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 00:38:16 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 00:38:29 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:47:10 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:51:30 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-153-57.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:35 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:47 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has left #scheme 01:07:13 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:14:20 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:19:51 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:39 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 01:22:50 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:26:42 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:34:12 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.201.9] has joined #scheme 01:35:57 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:35:57 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 01:37:19 nowhereman [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-2-136.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 01:40:42 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-18-206.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 01:41:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:43:40 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 02:09:03 bokr [~eduska@109.110.32.172] has joined #scheme 02:32:09 Riastradh: rudybot still has a few fairly bogus entries in his witticisms database; I'm too lazy to purge them 02:33:11 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-slnqncpjxvukqljb] has joined #scheme 02:36:22 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:40:27 -!- bokr [~eduska@109.110.32.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47:26 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:11 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:01:08 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-140.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:01:09 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:03:25 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 03:11:34 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:48 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:23:40 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 03:28:02 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 03:30:28 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 03:34:09 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:05 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 03:52:52 jlongster [~user@c-71-56-53-163.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:03:27 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:04:30 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:20:13 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 04:25:31 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:37:27 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 04:39:56 Does anybody know if MIT Scheme has a FFI? I'm finding different statements across the Internet and the documents have a scary chapter about FFI on Windows, which is not my case (Linux). 04:42:02 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:46:50 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:50:41 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:52:11 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 05:04:56 -!- vk0_ [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:06:18 chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #scheme 05:06:21 vk0 [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has joined #scheme 05:12:15 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 05:23:33 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:26:13 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:28:38 -!- jlongster [~user@c-71-56-53-163.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:35:55 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:52 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C62BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 05:39:57 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:51:35 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:45 superjudge [~mjl@195.22.80.141] has joined #scheme 06:06:15 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C62BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:22 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:15:39 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:21:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:22:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.9] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:23:52 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.9] has joined #scheme 06:24:13 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:25:33 userinit [~Ident@117.192.109.30] has joined #scheme 06:31:02 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 06:31:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.9] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:34:50 -!- userinit [~Ident@117.192.109.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:38:27 peeq [~peeq@unaffiliated/tqu] has joined #scheme 06:40:12 -!- peeq [~peeq@unaffiliated/tqu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:44 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 06:45:33 any bindings to SDL libraries? 06:49:34 For which scheme implementation? 06:51:17 stis [~stis@host-90-235-77-0.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 06:58:41 any, what about gauche? 07:04:50 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 07:07:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:21 i am on arm-linux, need to know anybody compiled any scheme for Arm 07:13:56 i believe i ran chicken on my openmoko (armv5?) once 07:14:45 yeah , i am on an armv5 07:15:57 chicken should still run 07:16:23 i remember it wasn't too hard to get it to work, i even programmed a simple sdl game for X 07:16:27 mario-goulart has been running a current chicken on arm IIRC 07:17:01 chicken is compact? 07:17:26 depends on what else you need apart from the core language (always the same with these schemes) 07:18:19 and I don't know what compact means by your standards 07:18:48 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:19:38 -!- nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:00 nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:21:34 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:23:19 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:23:56 slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has joined #scheme 07:24:04 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 07:25:40 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:09 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 07:30:02 -!- elly [debian-tor@atheme/member/elly] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:13 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 07:30:23 elly [debian-tor@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 07:37:41 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-71-46-119.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:42:37 need chicken to 'make' chicken? 07:44:34 no, a release tarball can build itself 07:45:43 using git 07:45:56 git checkouts cannot build themselves 07:46:22 The release tarballs contain pre-generated C. It's not kosher to import generated files into version control 07:50:53 -!- monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hello] 07:51:26 chicken generates C files from scheme code and then I cross compile for Arm? 07:51:42 is that so simple? 07:51:48 You can cross compile, or compile on the arm itself 07:51:50 yes 07:52:18 There are instructions on the wiki how to build a cross-chicken which automatically cross-compiles stuff like eggs 07:52:43 Arm gadget is a 200Mhz, 64M, 256M Nand flash device 07:53:09 then maybe crosscompilation is a bit faster 07:53:14 That's basically just a chicken which invokes a cross-compiling C compiler, but it contains some extra special code for handling compilation of eggs and programs 07:53:30 presently running QT apps on framebuffer, without X 07:53:35 You can also do extra special manual actions to make that work, but that's no fun :) 07:58:34 Running gambit on ARM. And successfully tried gambit+sdl on MIPS. Latter is the late answer about sdl-bindings. (: 08:04:02 too many options? 08:04:48 so SDL aint a problem anycase? 08:08:45 cross compiling using cross-chicken... 08:09:48 after that download 'sdl egg' ? 08:16:25 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:17:25 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfc074.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:18:54 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:19:29 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfc013.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 08:24:35 Hi 08:24:40 ./arm-linux-csi is working 08:36:35 -!- jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-45-56.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:38:18 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:40:39 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 08:45:34 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 08:46:12 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:46:13 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 08:49:14 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:50:55 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 08:52:28 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:23 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:00 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:22:33 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #scheme 09:30:21 Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has joined #scheme 09:33:34 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:46 masm [~masm@2.80.153.57] has joined #scheme 09:41:55 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 09:46:36 Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has joined #scheme 09:47:08 Hi all! 09:47:23 -!- slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:53 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:12 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:25 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 10:12:31 C-Keen: I'm actually using chicken on Geode processors (i586, IIRC), but cross-compiling on x86_64. 10:16:59 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-77-0.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:23:35 dzhus [~sphinx@93-80-186-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 10:25:37 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:36:46 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-140.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 10:37:53 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.164.123] has joined #scheme 10:58:09 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 10:59:33 mario-goulart: ah cool 10:59:42 mario-goulart: I do have some geodes myself 10:59:57 like the rocks? 10:59:57 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 11:00:27 (har har.) 11:01:17 heh 11:01:22 bokr [~eduska@109.110.32.172] has joined #scheme 11:01:43 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 11:05:26 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 11:10:15 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-194-141.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:10:41 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.164.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:13:59 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:14:15 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 11:18:32 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:07 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:21:52 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 11:23:51 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has joined #scheme 11:24:02 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:22 rasterbar [~rasterbar@96.24.71.214] has joined #scheme 11:24:27 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@96.24.71.214] has quit [Changing host] 11:24:27 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 11:24:31 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has joined #scheme 11:25:02 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:31 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has joined #scheme 11:26:35 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:02 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has joined #scheme 11:28:19 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:29:50 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:38:22 -!- bokr [~eduska@109.110.32.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:47:02 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:34 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has joined #scheme 11:48:24 does someone know how to use sqlite3 with chicken ? 11:49:07 I'd like to do something like « (map-row (lambda (x) x) db "update foo set bar = "lol" where id = ?") » but I don't know where to set my « id » 11:50:27 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:33 (**'lol') 11:51:06 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has joined #scheme 11:51:10 Pepe_: sqlite3 or sql-de-lite? 11:51:17 sqlite3 11:51:22 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:51:45 but I could use sql-de-lite, just didn't take a look yet 11:53:33 oh, here the update request does not make sense with map-row, actually I do a select request :x 11:54:19 Pepe_: doesn't something like `(map-row (lambda (x) x) db "select * from foo where id=?" id)' work? 11:55:27 Also, just use the IDENTITY procedure 11:56:33 mario-goulart: I don't really know how to use that actually 12:00:56 (define identity (lambda (x) x)) (map-row identity db "select * from foo where id=?" id) 12:01:54 oh, was it that easy :\ , thanks 12:04:33 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 12:05:37 Cool, Pepe_ 12:05:41 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09:27 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:10:30 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 12:11:11 rudybot: yow 12:11:11 amoe: ,yow 12:11:17 ,yow 12:11:20 :( 12:11:24 rudybot: ,yow 12:11:24 amoe: your sandbox is ready 12:11:24 amoe: error: eval:1:0: unquote: not in quasiquote in: (unquote yow) 12:11:36 :( :( 12:15:02 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:55 stis1 [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 12:21:17 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:25:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:27:21 rudybot: yow 12:27:21 z0d: ,yow 12:27:26 rudybot: ,yow 12:27:27 z0d: your sandbox is ready 12:27:27 z0d: error: eval:1:0: unquote: not in quasiquote in: (unquote yow) 12:27:32 sad face 12:28:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:31:01 -!- ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:40:53 Blkt [~Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-34-25-159.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 12:42:43 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:19 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has joined #scheme 12:43:34 good day everyone 12:48:58 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.15.186.212] has left #scheme 12:49:36 ski [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:51:08 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 12:51:31 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 12:55:15 -!- LN^off is now known as LN^^ 13:07:38 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:07:46 ventonegro [~alex@187.37.131.22] has joined #scheme 13:08:03 Riastradh: is there any hope for proper support for multiple values in MIT-Scheme? 13:08:17 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 13:09:12 It would be great if (call-with-values (lambda () 3) (lambda (x) x)) actually worked.. 13:11:47 ecraven: what does that do? 13:11:51 in mit scheme, i mean 13:12:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:41 wingo: crash ;) ;The object 3 is not applicable. 13:13:01 it *only* works if you run (call-with-values (lambda () (values 3)) (lambda (x) x)) (Note the added VALUES) 13:14:25 that sounds incompatible with r5rs, though i can't find any specific language 13:16:40 I think the definition of what a continuation is, in terms of how call-with-current-continuation is specified to work, essentially guarantees that (values 3) has to be the same as 3. 13:19:29 wingo, ecraven: Specifically looking at this: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_572 13:19:29 http://tinyurl.com/yoye9g 13:21:07 "Except for continuations created by the call-with-values procedure, all continuations take exactly one value." This implies that (values 42) is the same as a single-valued 42. 13:21:13 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 13:21:32 Plus, the example given for call-with-values: (call-with-values * -). (*) returns a single-valued 1. 13:21:55 ecraven: You should try and see (call-with-values * -) works for MIT SCheme. 13:22:19 ;The object 1 is not applicable. 13:23:38 doh. 13:24:10 Sounds like it's not R5RS-compliant! :-P 13:24:31 someone call sussman, stat! 13:24:36 ;-) 13:25:21 well, as far as I understand VALUES creates a thunk that returns a list of the values you pass it 13:30:17 It can be implemented that way, but that's an implementation-specific thing. 13:30:59 e.g., Guile 1.8 creates a first-class object of type "values", or something like that. 13:31:40 But I think this should be true across the board: (eq? (values 'foo) 'foo). 13:49:21 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 13:50:52 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:02:00 Lectus [~fred@189.104.240.201] has joined #scheme 14:12:17 rudybot: (define (interned? sym) (eq? sym (string->symbol (symbol->string sym)))) 14:12:18 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 14:12:18 cky: Done. 14:12:32 ^^--- Granted, Racket has its own symbol-interned? function. But is the above a good portable definition? 14:13:03 rudybot: (interned? 'foo) 14:13:03 cky: ; Value: #t 14:13:07 rudybot: (interned? (gensym)) 14:13:07 cky: ; Value: #f 14:15:31 (While portable, it's semi-terrible in that in actually interns a symbol of the given symbol's value just to see if the symbol is interned. :-( ) 14:16:36 Ideally, there's a way to check for internedness without having to intern anything, but, I guess that's necessarily unportable given that the Scheme standard doesn't talk about uninterned symbols beyond saying that some implementations have them. 14:24:25 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.9] has joined #scheme 14:25:43 -!- lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:46 Riastradh: how do I correctly build the microcode if I add new primitives? ./Setup.sh & ./configure & make apparently doesn't do this 14:26:12 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:28:24 Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:37:59 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:43:41 Did you guys see this, by the way: ? It categorizes R7RS-small as a "kernel lisp"; R7RS-big as a "practical lisp". 14:48:43 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:05 -!- superjudge [~mjl@195.22.80.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:05:43 ecraven, er, you need to do those sequentially, not in parallel. Did you mean `&&'? 15:05:50 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:40 ecraven, I looked a little into fixing MIT Scheme's multiple return values a year or two ago, but didn't get very far. Looks like I threw it all away. The idea was to introduce new return codes (and compiled-code analogues thereof) to sneak multiple return values into the system without requiring pervasive changes or any extra overhead for single-value returns. 15:09:07 didi, MIT Scheme has an experimental FFI, which is in the Git repository and will probably be included in 9.1. Documentation is also in the Git repository. 15:09:18 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 15:09:44 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 15:12:02 Riastradh: Yay! 15:12:06 Riastradh: Where? 15:12:14 Riastradh: I see the ffi/ dir. 15:12:23 That's where. 15:12:35 (Both relative to src/ and relative to doc/.) 15:13:08 Riastradh: Awesome. Thank you. 15:13:44 I found src/ffi, but I wasn't able to deduce its API. ;) 15:14:13 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:17:24 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 15:25:25 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 15:30:29 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 15:35:17 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38:10 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 15:38:20 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 15:39:59 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-4.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:40:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-4.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:40:46 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 15:50:05 lolcow [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:50:36 -!- lolcow [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:58 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:13 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:00:12 -!- ventonegro [~alex@187.37.131.22] has quit [Quit: ventonegro] 16:05:11 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:08:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:30 ymasory [~ymasory@frank.ldc.upenn.edu] has joined #scheme 16:27:21 -!- Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:33:09 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:38:51 jeefung [~jeff@c-98-223-239-157.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:43:35 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:53:30 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55:18 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:55:57 Has anyone here done non-blocking I/O in Scheme48? I'm wondering if there's a relatively easy way to do a select(2). 16:56:39 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 16:56:52 What do you want to do that for? 16:58:20 So I don't have to loop through a massive list of file descriptors asking if there's data waiting on any of them. 16:58:25 I can't speak for edw, but what I want to do is to use something like kqueue or epoll, so I can write a C10k-capable server. :-P 16:58:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-191-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 16:58:37 cky: bingo. 16:58:48 edw: You can't achieve C10k with select. :-P 16:59:01 Why do you want to write your programs upside-down? 16:59:07 Why don't you use threads? 16:59:20 Or, stepping back a bit: What problem are you trying to solve, of which you believe select to be a subproblem? 16:59:22 Riastradh: You also can't achieve C10k using threads; are you seriously going to spawn 10k+ threads? 16:59:31 Yes, cky. 16:59:37 Wow. 17:00:03 When you use epoll and kqueue and select or whatever, you are still using threads. You've just written your program upside-down so that the threads are hard to see and inconvenient to use. 17:00:08 Could you elaborate on your "yes" there, Riastradh. Ah thanks... 17:00:54 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:01:11 Riastradh: I read that mean that you're using 10k+ green threads, that behind the scenes use epoll/kqueue/whatever. Unless it's seriously feasible to use 10k+ POSIX threads. (You'd know better than I would about that.) 17:01:16 *read that to mean 17:01:25 The problem that you are probably alluding to is that with a small (4 GB) virtual address space, and a large minimum stack size for pthreads, a single process can support only a small number of stacks and therefore a small number of pthreads. 17:02:27 erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 17:02:45 I thought on Linux, POSIX threads also eat up a process ID each. Unless they've fixed that now. 17:03:02 I've wondered about Node.js, and how the CPS-passing style amounts to keeping a ton of state packaged up as environments in closures instead of stacks, and whether there's a real difference from a performance perspective. 17:03:05 Maybe that's a non-issue. 17:03:17 edw, the real difference is that you have to write programs upside-down. 17:03:59 Right. I've heard that somewhere. Recently. Several times. ;) 17:04:22 The packaging up of `environments' is really just storing your continuation in explicit closures rather than on the evaluation stack. 17:04:46 You still have multiple sequential threads of control running concurrently. 17:05:33 Most Schemes already do nonblocking I/O as part of their threading packages... 17:06:47 *edw* wonders why he asked this question at 1pm, not having eaten breakfast or lunch yet. 17:07:50 So, in the current implementation of Scheme48, there is a select loop and an itimer that delivers SIGALRM every n microseconds, for some value of n. No pthreads are involved, and it's uniprocessor. But unlike node.js and Twisted and all that nonsense, you don't have to write your programs upside-down. 17:11:35 Yeah, as usual, you're frustrating my desire to do something ill-considered, Riastradh. 17:13:46 On 64-bit machines, pthreads probably scale perfectly well, except inasmuch as C programs scale only very painfully anyway. 17:13:53 I haven't tested, though. 17:17:28 HG` [~HG@p5DC04F50.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:22:24 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:59 XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 17:27:33 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 17:28:53 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:34 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:39 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 17:41:52 -!- stis1 [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 17:42:38 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 17:43:05 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 17:53:56 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 17:54:14 erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 17:56:32 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:59:05 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:01:25 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 18:01:48 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 18:03:57 stis [~stis@host-78-79-198-148.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 18:04:35 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 18:15:55 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #scheme 18:17:49 Riastradh: as in encapsulate multiple return values in a custom record, and if any value is *not* encapsulated, it is obviously a single value? i thought about doing that 18:19:22 Riastradh: yes, && instead of &, if I run the generated binary (scheme --library ../lib --edit then (edit) ), I get ;The primitive xterm-clear-rectangle-color! is not implemented in this version of Scheme. Doesn't that mean that somehow my additional microcode primitive wasn't added correctly? 18:20:37 Well, you can always do (define (values . x) (if (and (pair? x) (null? (cdr x))) (make-multiple-values x) (car x], and define CALL-WITH-VALUES appropriately. However, that strongly discourages the use of multiple return values performancewise. It would be better to return them on the stack, and to make the compiler recognize CALL-WITH-VALUES and VALUES and DTRT with them where possible. 18:20:42 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 18:20:58 Did you run `scheme --library ../lib', or `./scheme --library ../lib'? 18:22:41 ./scheme 18:22:55 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:55 the version reported in the header has today's date 18:23:22 In particular, whenever you have (c-w-v (lambda () (... (values (f) (g) (h)) ...)) (lambda (x y z) ...)), the compiler should effectively turn that into (let ((r (lambda (x y z) ...))) (... (r (f) (g) (h)) ...)). 18:23:33 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4418.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:23:48 ecraven, oh, you probably need to edit the end of x11term.c to declare the new primitives too, because the X11 primitives are dynamically loaded. 18:26:08 thanks, trying that now 18:26:31 hm.. where would I start reading if I wanted to learn about modifying the interpreter to work with multiple values in that way? 18:26:34 You can use the commented grep/sed script to regenerate it. (Pretty kludgey, but it works.) 18:26:47 Start with interp.c, I suppose... 18:27:21 It will take a lot of work before any value can be had of the changes, though. The interpreter largely doesn't matter; it's compiled code where the difference between (cons *multiple-value-tag* vs) and a native implementation matters. 18:29:50 And probably every part of the compiler will need to be taught about CALL-WITH-VALUES and VALUES, which includes the parts of the compiler that are hardest to understand... 18:29:52 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-172-133.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 18:30:18 so the *multiple-value-tag* might be best as a first approximation? it would at least work correctly, though slowly 18:31:43 Well, sure, if you like, but you'll have to throw out the first approximation as soon as you do anything better. 18:31:56 Riastradh: my old patch for edwin colours breaks something, I think I can modify it to work without allocating a new GC on every call. Should I write the patch against your git or against the main git? 18:32:10 Actually, the first step will be to replace every instance of (let ((x .a.)) .b. x) by (begin0 .a. .b.), once 9.1 is released. 18:32:43 Riastradh: Well, if it works correctly, we can just swap it out 18:37:10 See ...um. 18:37:26 Riastradh: truncated. 18:37:33 I'm not even sure what I typed there. 18:37:42 C-y? 18:38:10 I know I hit ^J at some point, and I think I hit ^A, and I somehow cycled through a bunch of irssi windows... 18:38:20 Ah! I must have hit ^M, not ^J. 18:38:52 S-` c C-a C-m C-p C-b C-e... 18:39:03 Anyway: 18:39:51 I think I tested that, but I'm not sure -- I appear to have merged some changes in from master that may have totally broken it. 18:42:56 I started to implement a reference-counting scheme for GCs (if you'll excuse the pun...) in refcount.patch, but I concluded that it's not workable, because it needs to interact too deeply with Scheme in order to support caching the map from colours to allocated GCs. 18:43:25 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04F50.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:32 why not just use a single GC and change colours for each operation/ 18:43:45 I decided that a much better way to go about doing this is to rewrite x11term.c in Scheme so that GCs can be garbage-collected. 18:46:37 I suspect that would entail more traffic with the X server than is acceptable. 18:46:59 Maybe not, though. 18:47:13 but why even create multiple (or many) GCs? 18:47:41 Would you suggest one GC per face? 18:48:42 HG` [~HG@p5DC05441.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:48:45 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 18:49:05 tonyg [~tonyg@navarone.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:49:15 One GC per distinct face, yes. 18:49:49 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:01 This is essentially what GNU Emacs does, except that in GNU Emacs, the horrible complicated face data structure is implemented in C. 19:01:23 nice, with correct VALUES, SSAX seems to work on mit-scheme 19:01:32 (and is considerably faster than the native xml support) 19:03:08 I don't think there's any real advantage to having x11term.c implemented in C, other than that it's already written, and it would be substantially easier to change if it were implemented instead in Scheme. And it will need to change, even ignoring colours, if Edwin is to survive; for example, it will need to support internationalization, along with the rest of Edwin. I have a very rough idea of how to do this, but it would take a lot of work. 19:04:41 Considerably further from being correct, too, though, I imagine... 19:05:58 Riastradh: would you mind sharing this rough idea? 19:06:15 I've been thinking about implementing X11-bindings in Scheme, but I haven't implemented good binary parsing/generation yet :( 19:06:38 I believe basic X11 communication could be automatically generated from the xcb xml files 19:09:28 Currently a buffer is represented by a gap-buffer (limited to 32 MB) on a string of ISO-8859-1 code points, which are read (slowly) into memory character-by-character using a port. 19:11:12 Instead, a buffer should be represented by a gap-buffer (or possibly a list of gap-buffers each of a maximum size -- 32 MB is probably a bit too large) of octets, read from disk into memory in one swell foop without ports involved, and the interpretation of octets as Unicode code points needs to be handled higher up. 19:12:26 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 19:16:50 Edwin needs to be able to handle editing arbitrary large binary data (ideally, it should have something much better than hexl-mode), and it needs to be able to handle editing text with bogus octets in it as well. 19:20:19 This requires changing all operations on marks to do some minimal amount of parsing of the code points on the fly, and it will require some fairly substantial changes to the display code, since the correspondence between buffer octet indices and `character cell' positions is no longer nice and linear. 19:21:29 The redisplay code is the hardest part of Edwin to understand, and it requires cooperation from all different screen types supported by Edwin... 19:24:03 what is there (of relevance) apart from x11 and ansi (?) console? 19:24:33 Riastradh: do you have any idea what #[comment 73] might be? it cannot be dumped as it contains an environment :( 19:24:59 Implementing it efficiently (e.g.: avoiding decoding UTF-8 and then re-encoding it to spit it out to the terminal) requires a pretty hairy interface in the screen abstraction. 19:26:10 Wild guess: You wrote a macro-defining macro and tried to compile a use of the macro-defined macro. 19:26:54 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 19:27:46 drdo`` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:29:13 It seems this is what SSAX does. Can I not compile this? 19:29:59 Nope... It's a bug, and it's hard to fix. 19:30:24 -!- drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:31:48 hm.. I forgot, I can't compile this anyway, due to multiple values... 19:32:09 so many construction sites ;) 19:32:46 I guess there is no way to make the compiler *not* treat VALUES and CALL-WITH-VALUES specially? 19:33:16 (declare (usual-integrations values call-with-values)) 19:33:27 Riastradh: does emacs handle utf-8 as efficiently as that? does any other editor? 19:33:57 Well, it's probably not necessary to avoid decoding and re-encoding. 19:34:57 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05441.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:37:42 hm.. I would have suggested utf-32 as the internal encoding for everything, but that would make editing large arbitrary binary data .. awkward 19:38:02 but then, I'd guess mostly Edwin is used to edit text, not large arbitrary binary data 19:42:20 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:42:41 Octets, not UTF-32 code units, are the universal storage format. 19:42:54 Riastradh: how can I produce colours in edwin with your patch? 19:43:26 not in java, for example. maybe not in the clr either? 19:43:30 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:00 If I make a small change to a file in Edwin, the difference between the old file and new file on disk should be only the difference I made in Edwin. It shouldn't have the side effect of replacing broken code unit sequences by question marks. 19:44:25 Java and .NET are irrelevant -- they use UTF-16 as an internal representation for strings, which is totally unrelated. 19:44:57 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 19:48:40 ijp [~user@host109-154-194-141.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:49:03 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-172-133.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:15 -!- stis [~stis@host-78-79-198-148.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:46 carleastlund [~cce@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 20:00:41 lrce [~user@88-117-76-246.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 20:05:30 Dammit: every time I buy a piece of Apple hardware, it has n days to seduce me away from Linux; this time, with alt as meta as caps as control, it has nearly succeeded. 20:06:17 What's the difference concerning modifier keys? 20:08:12 Navigating readline with Esc-f, etc. was particularly painful; as well as the unfortunate placement of caps-lock where control should be. That seems to have been rectified, however, with new options for remapping modifier keys; and it makes for a tolerably comfortable environment. 20:09:30 modifier keys have been remappable for some time, as far as I recall 20:09:41 Has apple added another feature that others have had forever? Wow. 20:09:54 The fanboys are going to explode! 20:10:28 Well, I'm curious whether there are some new options I should be looking for, other than the ones I've been using for years. :) 20:10:37 That, combined with the activation energy required to compile Broadcoms wireless drivers, threatens to upset the cost-benefit ratio for making Linux work on Apple hardware. 20:11:03 carleastlund: You're probably right; it's just been a few years since I've looked at OS X. 20:11:12 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4418.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:43 Linux doesn't just come with the necessary drivers by default? 20:12:10 Not Fedora; but possibly Ubuntu. 20:12:44 Furthermore, there are some requisite kernel modules that have to be compiled; etc. 20:13:13 That's pretty weird. Why wouldn't it just come with them? 20:13:33 Audio is also tricky; haven't even attempted webcam. 20:13:35 Probably non-free drivers that some distributions aren't allowed to include. 20:14:52 I thought there have been free software drivers for Broadcom wifi devices since forever? 20:15:08 ecraven: I suspect so; the Broadcom drivers also appear to be fragile and poorly written. Maybe that's part of the reason they haven't made it inte the kernel. 20:16:15 Riastradh: Indeed; but they don't support the version found in the MacBook. Apple also has an irritating habit of using common hardware but tweaking device IDs, requiring patches, etc. 20:16:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-191-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:34 -!- lrce [~user@88-117-76-246.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:32 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-4356673a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:25:34 Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has joined #scheme 20:25:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-191-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 20:28:04 klutometis, hmm, my MacBook has an Atheros device, not a Broadcom device. My PowerBooks had Broadcom devices. NetBSD (and probably the other BSDs too) knows how to talk to both out of the box... 20:29:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:29:14 The broadcom driver for NetBSD doesn't work on my Macbook 20:29:25 It's a newer generation of the card, I think 20:29:33 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:29:49 It supports 802.11N 20:30:00 And the driver doesn't know how to do that 20:30:08 Darn. Maybe FreeBSD's does: someone wrote a FreeBSD driver, bwn(4), for the v4 firmware, which bwi(4) doesn't support. 20:30:26 You could try porting it. 20:30:30 hm 20:30:31 Probably not too difficult. 20:30:33 I might 20:31:07 Do you know why it's a separate driver? 20:31:15 Is bwi so different? 20:31:18 The v3 firmware and v4 firmware are totally different. 20:31:32 ugh 20:31:44 I don't know what the nature of the differences is, but my understanding is that they talk essentially different protocols to the software. 20:32:26 That explains why I wasn't able to jury-rig support for it into the bwi driver :) 20:34:52 I think the v4 firmware supports a superset of the set of devices the v3 firmware supports, so porting bwn(4) and replacing bwi(4) would probably be an overall win. 20:36:52 At least there'd be plenty of test subjects to shake out any bugs :) 20:36:58 *klutometis* thinks its time to try a *BSD. 20:45:20 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:45:34 *ASau* prepares to another flood of questions. 20:46:31 klutometis: try Debian/kFreeBSD 20:46:49 What is the point in that? 20:46:56 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-14.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:56 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-14.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:46:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 20:48:56 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:18 http://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD_FAQ#Q._What_is_the_point_of_Debian_GNU.2BAC8-kFreeBSD.3F 20:49:18 http://tinyurl.com/3t7onaq 20:49:37 haha 20:49:39 Literally 20:50:14 Even with its defects FreeBSD userland is better than Debian. 20:50:29 obviously not everyone agrees. 20:51:46 I don't find the reasons to use Debian/FreeBSD over regular FreeBSD particularly convincing 20:51:54 Obviously. 20:52:08 Basically they're saying "it's a better Debian than Debian because it uses a better kernel" 20:52:28 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:25 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@frank.ldc.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:52 sjamaan: the irony is that our target linux is hacked to use kqueue. 20:57:03 *ASau* wonders why. 20:57:20 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 20:57:30 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@93-80-186-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:38 bremner_: Interesting: didn't realize a "third way" existed; might have to check it out. Basically, I won't have to relearn my invocations of tar, cp, ps, etc.; or whatever other subtle differences exist between GNU- and BSD-userland. 20:57:53 (I remember these subtle differences being mildly irritating on Solaris.) 20:58:30 I don't actually think that it makes so much difference to you. 20:58:38 Basically GNU tools are BSD ones. 20:58:39 well, I doubt FreeBSD userland is as irritating as Solaris 20:59:21 It's just different 20:59:55 For a sysv nazi like me, their system management is haphazard, monolithic and hippy 21:00:06 *sjamaan* likes rc.d :) 21:00:22 bremner_, is there a difference between freebsd useland and solaris? 21:00:33 And their users are obnoxious and it's pc centered. I prefer Net/OpenBSD 21:00:36 jonrafkind: have you ever worked with both? 21:00:40 yes 21:00:49 although its been a few years 21:00:52 Didn't notice differences? 21:00:56 both use toolsets from the 70s 21:01:16 GNU uses the same toolset from 70s. 21:01:22 --color-auto ? 21:01:35 What does it change? 21:01:39 adds color 21:01:53 So, adding colour is fundamental to you. 21:01:57 Weird. 21:02:17 FreeBSD's ls has color! 21:02:32 It's in pkgsrc as one of the two ls(1) alternatives that can add color 21:02:57 Never used it when worked with FreeBSD. 21:03:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-191-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:29 oh actually, it isn't 21:03:42 "This is a simple hack to the FreeBSD /bin/ls to use ANSI sequences to display file attributes in color." 21:03:45 misc/colorls 21:03:50 I thought it was stock FreeBSD ls 21:04:02 The other is GNU's 21:04:31 "alias ls ls -F" is canonical way, if you like visual marks so much. 21:04:59 *sjamaan* has that 21:05:00 Actually, I don't remember many people do. 21:05:13 you dont use any visual marks? 21:05:19 Sure. 21:05:24 Why do I need them? 21:06:07 i gotta say that is the strangest thing ive ever heard in my life 21:06:35 jonrafkind: ASau is strange. Get used to it ;) 21:06:38 How exactly could I use those visual marks? 21:06:49 to detect if a file is executable, a directory, a symlink, a few other things 21:06:58 easier than ls -l and parsing the output 21:07:02 If file is in ~/bin, it is executable. 21:07:18 If file isn't in ~/bin, it doesn't matter, since it isn't in PATH. 21:07:24 ./foo 21:07:37 Why do you need that? 21:07:41 to run the file foo 21:08:11 I don't run files from current directory. 21:08:16 You're being deliberately contrarian, ASau... `ls -F' is useful. 21:08:18 I use make. 21:08:20 it just keeps getting wierder 21:08:39 you mean you always install all programs before running them 21:08:50 No. 21:08:59 what does make have to do with running files from the current directory 21:09:01 I just use make to perform complex tasks. 21:09:24 Make calls appropriate interpreter from PATH. 21:09:27 so you write a Makefile with all: ./foo and run make? 21:09:47 *bremner_* happily concedes the e-macho contest ;) 21:09:50 And if script is useful in more places, it is in ~/bin 21:09:57 ASau *loves* to argue 21:10:06 i half expect ASau to say he writes his own keyboard drivers upon every bootup 21:10:27 *ASau* laughs. 21:10:28 nah, he just enjoys arguing. In reality he probably uses Windows 21:10:33 oh rofl 21:10:53 In reality I do use NT as well. 21:10:58 heh 21:11:06 Though it is used only as a kind of bootloader. 21:11:18 It runs virtualbox with operating system inside. 21:11:18 i met a guy in college once who said he never runs X, at that point I knew we could not communicate further 21:12:13 jonrafkind: you communicate only by sharing desktop via VNC? 21:12:20 Heh 21:12:31 yea good one 21:16:54 Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-191-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 21:29:35 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:32:48 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:15 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:18 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:45 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 21:45:51 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:06 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:50:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-191-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:42 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:41 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:09:58 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:11:39 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:19:27 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:37 Bahman [~bahman@2.146.17.231] has joined #scheme 22:21:18 ijp` [~user@host86-150-74-195.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 22:21:37 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 22:24:12 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-194-141.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:26:36 -!- Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:04 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:38:25 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:02:07 Geef [~Geef@249.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:13:49 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:59 I can't understand what a collector generally does. Would anyone please shed a light here. 23:18:13 It would collect. 23:18:19 Collector? More context needed. 23:18:35 An adder would add, a collector would collect. 23:19:42 A finger would fing. 23:20:22 Riastradh: Here's the code: http://pastebin.com/tmS2ZS8z 23:20:38 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 23:20:51 ijp`` [~user@86.150.74.195] has joined #scheme 23:20:54 I can trace the code in drracket and see what it does but I don't get the concept of a collector function. 23:21:43 In that code, why it's using a collector while it could run w/o any. 23:21:46 ? 23:22:12 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:26 So that you can collect: (let ((result '())) (multirember&co a lat (lambda (new-lat seen) (set! result (cons new-lat result)))) result) 23:23:31 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:23:49 pjb: Sorry but don't know about let and set! yet. 23:24:34 -!- ijp` [~user@host86-150-74-195.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:08 Let me ask it this way: normally, when you would use a collector function? 23:27:10 Bahman: when you must write a tail-recursive solution to an exercise, and you need to build the result in the reverse order. 23:28:57 Exercise? 23:29:06 You mean "a problem"? 23:29:22 Sorry but English is not my native language :-) 23:32:05 -!- alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:45 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 23:33:04 Yes. Compare http://pastebin.com/MnwQBq0M 23:34:05 The col parameter is a closure that allows to delay the computation of the resulting lists. 23:35:00 pjb: Excellent. Thanks. It's clear now. 23:35:04 In each recursive call of multirember&co, a new closure is built that memorize the current lat so that (car lat) can be consed to the final result when it's actually built by calling (col '() '()) at the end of the recursion. 23:36:09 You may add a (display "in a collector with " (list (car lat) newlat seen)) after each (lambda (newlat seen) to see what happens. 23:36:35 Another question: Does that lazy result have any performance/memory effects? 23:37:39 Of course, but not much. It will build a chain of environment of each closure. So O(n). It's the same complexity as you would get otherwise. But since we have only tail calls, we don't use stack space, only heap space. 23:38:03 The question is that in most systems, stack space is restricted more than heap space. 23:38:52 pjb: Thanks a lot. Very helpful. 23:41:33 Bahman: now, this col parameter is used somewhat "internally" by multirember&co. Some other functions (eg. iterators) may use a collector function parameter to send back several results. In this case, the collector function given in argument could use mutation (set! or display) to remember the "results" provided in parameter by the iterating function. This would be a different kind of use of collector functions. 23:41:42 (the one I originally hinted to). 23:43:22 Got it. 23:45:09 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-152-135-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:46:13 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:46:27 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:51:35 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-86-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:58:21 rpg [~rpg@66.161.23.209.lan.static.cptelecom.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:37 -!- rpg [~rpg@66.161.23.209.lan.static.cptelecom.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:59:45 -!- carleastlund [~cce@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: carleastlund]