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[~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:38:43 can anyone recommend any good resources for compiler-writing in scheme? googling's not bring up much 06:38:53 library.readscheme.org 06:39:37 chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 06:41:34 -!- copumpkin is now known as danp_ 06:41:51 -!- danp_ is now known as bambam 06:42:17 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:49 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-194-141.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:45:28 http://www.cs.rpi.edu/academics/courses/fall00/ai/scheme/reference/schintro-v14/schintro_114.html an interpreter is probably a better start actually 06:45:29 http://tinyurl.com/3cw3voh 06:48:45 -!- bambam is now known as copumpkin 06:49:04 -!- cpach [~carl@h167n3-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has left #scheme 06:59:00 -!- chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 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saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 12:27:08 oh wait, i'm stupid ... 12:27:31 i assumed that (+ count 1) is like ++count in C :P 12:36:38 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:40:28 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C4780.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:43 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:45 tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.66.135] has joined #scheme 12:52:03 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.66.135] has quit [Client Quit] 13:01:09 -!- poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:56 poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #scheme 13:07:05 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-193-43.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:18:37 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:21:30 oh gosh there's a scheme 7 waiting in the works. r6rs, we hardly knew ye 13:22:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:22:19 hope the minimal r7 thing sees better adoption - standards defined modules will be great 13:23:19 Scheme 7 was my idea. 13:23:58 r6 was bashed for disregarding minimalism, no ? 13:26:32 oh god don't get them started 13:26:42 :D 13:27:29 (I read up on it a couple of times, much if it was over my head but the general concensus wasn't so much that it wasn't minimal enough, but that it had implemented some things poorly) 13:31:44 Was having non-turing-tarpit option for writing macros among poor decisions? 13:37:41 didn't know the term "turing tar-pit". makes a good point 13:38:59 It is even in WP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit 13:40:58 that's where i've just read about it 13:42:08 chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 13:44:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:45:13 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:48:48 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 13:51:40 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:55:34 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.223.127] has joined #scheme 13:59:06 Bahman_ [~Bahman@2.144.223.127] has joined #scheme 13:59:32 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.223.127] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:59:47 -!- Bahman_ [~Bahman@2.144.223.127] has quit [Client Quit] 14:01:02 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.223.127] has joined #scheme 14:01:29 Hi all! 14:04:56 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD9303D.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 14:06:36 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:07:50 Riastradh: you mentioned a deeply buried problem in *PARSER concerning performance, do you know details about this? 14:08:59 You can't commit to a choice. 14:15:58 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 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[~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:18 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-21-82-64-66-223.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:01:20 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-65-237.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:01:52 rudybot: init racket 15:01:53 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 15:02:33 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo4.213.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 15:02:52 rudybot: (define (inc b) (set-box! b (add1 (unbox b)))) 15:02:52 cky: Done. 15:03:02 rudybot: (define num (box 42)) 15:03:02 cky: Done. 15:03:06 rudybot: (inc num) 15:03:06 cky: Done. 15:03:12 rudybot: num 15:03:12 cky: ; Value: #&43 15:03:34 Oh, darn. taylanub has already left. 15:06:07 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-44-82-249-232-20.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 15:06:18 -!- futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:06:44 futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has joined #scheme 15:06:52 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:07:23 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@222-155-25-243.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 15:07:28 -!- infid [~infid@rrcs-173-198-12-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:07:36 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 15:08:30 infid [~infid@99-101-15-134.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:08:40 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-168289.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:50 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:08:57 rudybot: (define-syntax inc! (syntax-rules () ((inc! a) (set! a (+ a 1))))) 15:08:57 ecraven: your sandbox is ready 15:08:57 ecraven: Done. 15:09:01 rudybot: (define x 3) 15:09:02 ecraven: Done. 15:09:04 rudybot: (inc! x) 15:09:05 ecraven: Done. 15:09:07 rudybot: x 15:09:08 ecraven: ; Value: 4 15:09:11 cky: are racket folk advocating boxes? 15:09:20 instead of set! ? 15:09:37 wingo: I have no idea about "advocating", but it's used in places. 15:09:49 ecraven: Right, that's the "standard" solution but it requires macros. :-) 15:10:12 you can't mutate global bindings without macros (if you aren't using boxes or implementation-specific code) 15:10:18 wingo: I think the appeal of boxes is that it allows Scheme code to simulate call-by-reference. 15:10:21 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 15:10:45 cky: ah, i see. yes that does sound useful. 15:11:19 Say I, who implemented a Ref class in Java which does what "ref" in OCaml does (basically the same as "box" in Racket). 15:11:37 guile (and chez scheme, i think) boxes all variables which are `set!', internally 15:11:46 ekirae [~chturne@nas45-9.york.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 15:12:03 wingo: Right, but that still won't allow pass-by-reference, will it? 15:12:04 but that doesn't allow you to simulate call-by-reference. 15:12:08 indeed. 15:12:26 What's the different between (cond (test expr) ...) and (cond (test => expr) ...)? 15:12:55 ekirae: The first one returns expr. 15:13:09 ekirae: The second one takes the result of the test, and passes it as the sole argument to expr. 15:13:17 Ahhh 15:13:19 (In the second case, expr is a function taking one argument.) 15:13:27 Thanks cky! 15:13:29 :-) 15:14:18 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-75-26.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 15:15:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:15:48 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:23:02 chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 15:24:31 interesting bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/727615 15:25:59 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:55 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 15:27:26 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:28:11 wingo: It's much ado about nothing. Most operations on a hash table require locking on a greater granularity than get/set; e.g., if you want to do compare-and-set, the whole operation needs to be locked. 15:28:41 (By which I mean, the get, compare, and set all need to happen under a single locked region.) 15:30:11 true; but it seems that currently it's possible to totally bork your table if you are modifying it from different threads at the same time 15:30:59 i like the clojure approach more, tbh 15:31:08 The transactional memory stuff? 15:32:00 no, the functional hash / set / vector stuff 15:32:10 Racket has them too. 15:32:12 so a mutable hash table can just be a box pointing to a functional hash 15:32:20 *nods* 15:32:24 cool, didn't know that :) 15:32:36 -!- emma is now known as em 15:32:42 rudybot: (define hb (box '#hash())) 15:32:42 cky: Done. 15:33:05 rudybot: (set-box! hb (hash-set (unbox hb) 'foo 'bar)) 15:33:05 cky: Done. 15:33:09 rudybot: hb 15:33:09 cky: ; Value: #&#hash((foo . bar)) 15:33:32 neat. 15:34:38 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C77A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:34:39 Yep. :-) It means you can build a hash table using fold, for example. :-) 15:37:12 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C77A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:01 -!- clog_ [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:29 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 15:50:23 -!- chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:50:30 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-112-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 15:51:29 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 16:10:28 ncow [~ncow@bujumbura.dreamhost.com] has joined #scheme 16:12:01 -!- ncow [~ncow@bujumbura.dreamhost.com] has left #scheme 16:12:57 chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 16:13:57 mathk__ [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:16:21 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-44-82-249-232-20.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:16:21 -!- mathk__ is now known as mathk 16:16:24 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:19:15 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 16:20:13 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.97] has joined #scheme 16:31:32 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:55:08 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:25 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 16:55:57 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:58:27 -!- chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:58:33 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-170-149.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 16:59:40 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 17:10:27 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:19 terseinit [~quassel@117.192.112.241] has joined #scheme 17:13:40 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 17:35:54 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-71-46-119.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:36:20 -!- infid [~infid@99-101-15-134.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:05 infid [~infid@rrcs-173-198-12-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:41:09 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 17:44:44 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:46:23 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:37 atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #scheme 17:48:37 is there a way in mit-scheme to vizualize the environment created by a recursive call ? 18:02:57 chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 18:03:38 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:05:32 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:14 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:09:08 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 18:10:59 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 18:13:51 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 18:14:08 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:14:15 -!- chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:53 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:16:51 chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 18:19:42 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:40 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 18:22:04 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 18:22:34 rpg [~rpg@66.161.23.209.lan.static.cptelecom.net] has joined #scheme 18:23:04 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:25 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 18:37:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:37:59 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 18:38:15 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:41:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-156.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:46:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-156.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:49:12 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:52:16 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-212-79.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:53:32 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.201.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:36 mathk [~mathk@194.177.61.59] has joined #scheme 18:57:53 jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-45-56.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 18:59:21 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 19:00:09 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 19:00:35 Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 19:05:38 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:42 stis [~stis@host-90-235-22-69.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 19:12:05 -!- rpg [~rpg@66.161.23.209.lan.static.cptelecom.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 19:12:27 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has left #scheme 19:14:39 great silence 19:14:50 shhh 19:15:01 *offby1* strains to listen 19:15:12 *rudybot* drops a pin 19:15:18 ooh, I heard that 19:19:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@12.27.192.74] has joined #scheme 19:20:45 http://pastebin.ca/2052609 19:21:13 I made the diagrams on paper, but I want to check them concretely. 19:21:28 could I debug somehow the function calls ? 19:21:43 I am using xscheme-mode in emacs , with mit-scheme 19:22:10 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C77A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:28 most schemes provide a trace procedure that will print out each function call with its arguments 19:23:03 or of course you could add print/display statements yourself 19:24:35 http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/ftpdir/scheme-7.4/doc-html/user_6.html 19:24:44 mit-scheme does have it too 19:31:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:34:03 thanks 19:34:36 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:35:04 i wish to know if there are other possibilities. I knew about trace, but did not think to try it :( 19:35:33 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 19:38:40 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:38:51 those with batteries are not powerful 19:39:14 sorry, I posted on the wrong channel 19:39:48 -!- mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:40:17 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 19:41:01 wingo: No such advocation. 19:42:01 wingo: In fact, semi-recently there was some discussion about it where Robby had a point for `set!' over boxes -- I think it was something about boxes that can "escape" out of a scope since they're plain values, whereas with mutation it cannot happen. 19:42:36 (But obviously there's advocation of boxes over mutation a cons cell.) 19:44:34 "advocacy", i believe 19:44:55 but set! vars can escape implicitly, due to call/cc... 19:45:04 or perhaps i am confusing the issues 19:45:22 boxes do sound better than set-cdr! 19:45:45 *wingo* currently sweeping out some dark set-cdr! corners 19:45:47 Onyxyte [~Onyxyte@r75-110-112-109.rmntcmtc02.rcmtnc.ab.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #scheme 19:51:07 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 19:52:01 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:52:54 -!- ekirae [~chturne@nas45-9.york.ac.uk] has left #scheme 20:05:32 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f08:b3d::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:58 X-Scale [email@89.180.192.121] has joined #scheme 20:08:18 -!- chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:56 wingo: Well, lots of stuff escapes with call/cc... 20:19:25 -!- amoe [~amoe@cpc1-brig13-0-0-cust658.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:03 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:52 hi all 20:23:09 newbie question: can I define quote using define? 20:23:33 (define (quote . e) e) 20:23:44 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-248.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:23:56 no because due to the rules of evaluation e would get evaluated before quote is applied 20:24:37 you can use define-syntax to define quote 20:24:57 quote has to be a special form / macro 20:25:15 ah, there's a bug in my interpreter then. Great, I understand :) 20:26:21 Thanks! 20:26:32 welcome :) 20:33:01 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-171-155.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:34:56 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-167-21.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:08 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 20:36:02 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 20:40:28 jonrafkind: that would be difficult. You need some way to get symbols, so you'll need something like `string->symbol' instead. 20:40:43 Well, not that difficult, but questionable. 20:43:51 -!- ndc [~ndc@99-40-71-132.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:48:09 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:35 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 20:48:35 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:48:35 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 20:52:24 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C77A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:39 ijp [~user@host109-154-194-141.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 21:22:49 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:24:10 -!- cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:24:11 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:15 cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has joined #scheme 21:28:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-193-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:28:50 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-193-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:33:35 chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 21:35:14 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-235-22-69.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:39 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:48:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@12.27.192.74] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:55:01 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-153-57.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:58:39 masm [~masm@2.80.153.57] has joined #scheme 22:07:48 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.153.57] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:08:11 masm [~masm@bl19-153-57.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:09:01 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 22:16:50 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-75-26.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:21:11 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:26:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:29:12 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 22:30:23 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-46-77.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 22:54:51 rob___ [~rob@happybox.org] has joined #scheme 22:59:36 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:00:19 I was just reading through R5RS, and found an odd bit about string-set! 23:00:29 this should throw an error apparently: 23:00:31 (define (g) "***") (string-set! (g) 0 #\?) 23:00:48 Yes, since you're trying to modify a literal. 23:00:53 I can't reproduce it on guile though 23:01:07 Some implementations don't care checking all error cases. 23:01:07 rudybot: (begin (define (g) "***") (string-set! (g) 0 #\?)) 23:01:07 *offby1: your racket sandbox is ready 23:01:07 *offby1: error: string-set!: expects type as 1st argument, given: "***"; other arguments were: 0 #\? 23:01:26 But you may have very surprising results if you modify literal data. 23:01:36 rudybot: (set! 1 2) 23:01:36 *offby1: error: eval:1:6: set!: not an identifier at: 1 in: (set! 1 2) 23:02:35 so really the first argument to string-set! should only be a symbol, correct? 23:03:58 vilfredo: No, (let ((f (lambda () (make-string 3 23:04:13 #\f)))) (string-set! f 0 #\a) f) should work fine 23:05:26 erm, disregard that example 23:06:46 in any case, as long as the first argument evaluates to a non-literal string, it should be fine 23:06:56 OK. So values are mutable, but literals aren't (or at least shouldn't be). 23:08:23 it does seem slightly odd that "fff" behaves differently to (make-string 3 #\f) though 23:09:09 vilfredo: '(1 2) is also different from (list 1 2) 23:09:55 rudybot: (set-car! '(1 2) 0) 23:09:55 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: set-car! in module: 'program 23:09:59 ah. 23:10:02 rudybot: init r5rs 23:10:02 *offby1: your r5rs sandbox is ready 23:10:05 rudybot: (set-car! '(1 2) 0) 23:10:05 *offby1: Done. 23:10:08 hmm. 23:10:24 rudybot: (let ([c '(1 2)]) (set-car! c 0) c) 23:10:24 *offby1: error: eval:1:6: read: illegal use of open square bracket 23:10:30 *offby1* rolls eyes 23:10:39 rudybot: (let ((c '(1 2))) (set-car! c 0) c) 23:10:39 *offby1: ; Value: {0 2} 23:10:42 huh 23:11:02 The {} are for mutable pairs, or something. 23:11:03 somehow I expected an error there. 23:11:05 yeah. 23:11:14 that's a PLT-ism. 23:11:19 but still, I'm surprised it let me do it. 23:11:34 offby1: That's because R5RS mode uses mcons for literal lists. 23:11:41 offby1: (Referring strictly to Racket here, of course.) 23:11:43 I think most implementations let you 23:14:05 hmm, of the implementations I have installed, only s9 gives an error 23:16:38 interesting, thanks. 23:17:29 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 23:18:32 wingo, boxes are useful because SET! and the concept of mutable bindings are the single most confusing part of Scheme to novices. 23:19:19 so isolating that behavior to one data type ... ? 23:19:21 And SET! doesn't add any particularly useful expressiveness to the language, and makes programs and particularly macros harder to reason about. 23:20:57 It doesn't have to be isolated to any particular data type; SET-CAR! and SET-CDR! are OK too (except for the havoc they wreak on programs handling lists -- but that's for unrelated reasons). 23:22:07 The issue is that the location associated with a binding isn't like other locations; it is not obviously tied to any first-class objects like other locations, such as the location of a pair's car or the location of a vector's third element, are. 23:24:53 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-173-71-46-119.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:25:13 I think I understand 23:27:39 Consider (define (f x) (set! x 1)) (let ((x 0)) (f x) x). `Why does this return 0 and not 1 like it should? If I do (define (f x) (set-box! x 1)) (let ((x (box 0))) (f x) (unbox x)) it works!' 23:28:59 Oh, where'd wingo go? 23:31:17 fled to the Crustacean Alps 23:31:27 with a jar of mayonnaise and a loaf of bread 23:34:04 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:43:10 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 23:50:31 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]