00:01:04 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:05:09 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:06:53 (Some operating systems support relative rpaths these days... 00:06:54 Other systems are non-operating.) 00:08:43 -!- pranq [20253@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:12:41 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:04 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-248-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 00:14:21 ASau [~user@93-80-248-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 00:19:55 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 00:20:35 When something is "reified," by the way, that's orthogonal to being "serialized;" isn't it? 00:21:04 thingification is key 00:23:00 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:24:30 Damn; I guess that's an example of garbage-in-garbage-out communication. 00:27:50 -!- rumina [~rumina@88-148-219-26.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:34:30 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:35:30 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:38:14 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #scheme 00:42:07 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 00:47:42 -!- Broa [~Broa@235.Red-83-36-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Broa] 00:48:10 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:16 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:51:12 beelike [maln@78-1-173-87.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 00:52:03 pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:54:21 -!- hsrt [maln@78-0-225-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:55:39 foof, I my problems occurred in git pulled from a few days ago 00:58:11 kudos on the ffi. I like it! 00:58:18 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@c-76-27-203-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #scheme 00:58:26 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 01:03:19 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:42 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 01:07:30 githogori [~githogori@66.123.22.146] has joined #scheme 01:07:41 -!- yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:08:38 yell0 [yello@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 01:14:14 -!- LN^^ is now known as LN^off 01:21:23 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:23:51 aidalgol [~user@114-134-8-93.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:29:05 -!- osoleve [~osoleve@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:29:32 osoleve [~osoleve@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 01:31:42 appamatto: I presume you mean hg? Or is there a git mirror I don't know about? :) 01:32:16 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-8-93.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:26 aidalgol [~user@114-134-8-93.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:36:11 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 01:37:35 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:39:08 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:39:25 foof: Maybe appamatto uses a hg-git bridge. ;-) 01:41:57 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:44:49 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:45:42 foof, oops, yes hg 01:45:48 I installed mercurial just for you :P 01:45:57 appamatto: How flattering. 01:46:06 appamatto: I installed hg to grab OpenJDK. :-P 01:46:20 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-140.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:57 what's the convention for `call-with-...' vs. `with-...'? 01:48:02 i notice that r5rs uses `with-...' when the thunk is niladic (tautology); and `call-with-...' when the procedure is n-ary, where n >= 1. 01:48:16 klutometis: Right, exactly that. 01:48:36 klutometis: call-with-* passes the object to your function. with-* sets a certain parameter to that object. 01:49:06 exemplorum gratia: `with-output-to-file' (niladic), `call-with-values' (n-ary). 01:49:21 cky: indeed; i just wish someone had explicitly formalized that before i misnamed all my modules! 01:49:32 klutometis: Bummer. 01:49:44 Riastradh: would that you would add this to your moribund style guide! 01:50:31 I wonder what implementation Steele and Sussman use, if any.... 01:51:15 cky: it seems a little arbitrary, though, doesn't it? you're still "calling" a thunk with zero arguments; i don't see how one is necessarily `call-with-...' and the other merely `with-...'. 01:51:58 The call-with is not referring to the procedure. It's referring to how the object is to be stashed. 01:52:19 call-with-* means object to be passed as arg; with-* means object to be stored in parameter. 01:53:05 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:31 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 01:54:05 cky: i'm currently writing a dynamic-wind abstraction, bizarrely, which does both; i take it the `call-with-...' convention wins out over `call-...'. 01:54:16 sorry, `with-...'. 01:54:43 Um. If it affects external state (and I consider parameters to be external state), use with-*. 01:55:04 call-with-* has an expectation that no external state be modified, and everything is contained within the procedure you passed. 01:55:08 yeah; but it passes in arguments, too. this is probably a pathological corner case. 01:55:15 Yeah. :-/ 01:55:15 oh, hmm. 01:55:27 What's the convention for naming a macro corresponding to with-*, but with a body rather than a thunk? 01:56:08 jcowan: I wish there is one that I know of. The only body-containing macros I can recall from the top of my head are called let and force. ;-) 01:56:11 Uh, delay. 01:56:15 let and delay. ;-) 01:56:57 And, you know, the only commonality between those two are the letters L and E. 01:57:31 CL uses with-* for macros rather than procedures that take thunks. 01:57:42 *nods* 01:58:24 OK, back to rpath. I was getting confused because someone complained about needing to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH to use it prior to installation, and in the build and test scripts. 01:59:16 I think adding . or `pwd` to rpath would be a horrible mistake. 02:00:56 For other uses, my gut reaction is to prefer not hard-coding anything. 02:01:17 Debian also officially discourages using rpath, so I'm inclined to follow that convention for all Linux builds. 02:02:39 A problem in Chibi installation is that you use low-level commands rather than "install", which means on a virgin install files have the wrong mode. 02:02:41 rpath is fine for libraries outside /usr/lib 02:02:47 (in Debian) 02:04:07 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-168289.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:04:12 jcowan: I'll switch to install. 02:04:26 Thanks. 02:14:41 -!- turbofail [~user@c-107-3-149-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:33 Does char-numeric? return #t for the Unihan_NumericValues.txt? 02:21:01 I think no. 02:21:29 I meant to speak of the Number property rather than the Numeric property (a "numeric property" is one that has a value whose type is numeric) 02:21:30 I can't give you details, but a project I'm currently working on suggests it should be yes. 02:22:17 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:24:04 Well, basically in a linguistic application that wants to detect rewriting one number as another, we want that to apply to ideographic numbers as well. But I suppose that could be a separate, slightly broader predicate. 02:36:32 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:50 Indeed. These predicates should not be culturally sensitive. 02:42:00 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has joined #scheme 02:42:07 Well, the way C, C#, etc. handle it is to allow you to pass in a locale, and for culturally-insensitive stuff there's the "C" locale, or CultureInvariant (or whatever it's called). 02:43:10 InvariantCulture, not CultureInvariant. :-P 02:43:39 Quite so. Unfortunately, WG2 voted down localization support. 02:43:48 Eep! 02:44:07 They pushed it to the hypothetical WG3. 02:44:19 (as in "this looks way too complicated for us") 02:44:28 If you say WG2 is already going to be larger than CL, then what size is WG3? 02:44:57 It's a small number of Very Big Things 02:45:21 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/ReassignedDocket 02:46:42 whereas WG2 work is at http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/WG2Dockets with the exception of ReassignedDocket 02:50:18 *nods* 02:50:45 I think the WG feeling was that these things are just too complex individually to accommodate. 02:52:09 jrt4__ [~jrtaylori@174-125-106-93.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 02:55:15 -!- jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-45-130.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:58:16 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 03:00:03 jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-98-37.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 03:00:07 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:01:44 -!- jrt4__ [~jrtaylori@174-125-106-93.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02:05 -!- bwhitlock [~brad@174-16-231-161.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:33 bwhitlock [~brad@174-16-231-161.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 03:02:59 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has joined #scheme 03:13:49 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:14:08 -!- zmv is now known as z 03:14:22 -!- z is now known as zmv 03:19:50 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-wbibabwzpbhxwmtj] has joined #scheme 03:21:38 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:39 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30:24 -!- tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30:32 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 03:38:17 does anyone have a word for the composite http transaction consisting of content-type, EOL, prolog and doctype? 03:43:46 very well: (display-content-type+eol+prolog+doctype [prolog [doctype]]) 03:47:29 no, (display-content-type-&c. ...); thanks. 03:49:27 didi, I don't think Guy Steele uses Scheme. Gerry Sussman uses MIT Scheme. 03:51:53 Riastradh: Apparently Steele is involved with something called Fortress, right? 03:52:56 Ja 03:52:57 Va 03:53:19 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:53:27 He was working on that a few years ago. I haven't heard much about it since, though. 03:53:43 I see. 03:54:00 Maybe I should check out MIT Scheme more closely. 03:54:39 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:01:53 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:03:43 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 04:04:01 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-8-93.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:04:50 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:52 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:05:19 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 04:10:34 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:31:40 -!- dsp_ [~tt@acidlab.technoanimal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31:46 dsp_ [~tt@acidlab.technoanimal.net] has joined #scheme 04:31:55 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f768835.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:32:05 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfd47f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 04:33:56 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:39:31 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:39:43 foof, you need to set the rpath on GNU/Linux systems too, not just non-GNU/Linux Unix systems. 04:40:00 -!- chrissbx [~chrissbx@69.196.152.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:37 geoffhill [~geoffhill@wireless-165-124-144-217.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #scheme 04:41:35 chrissbx [~chrissbx@69-196-152-229.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 04:41:44 Riastradh: Why? 04:43:02 foof: Also, eval.c:1787 fails to compile if SEXP_USE_RENAME_BINDINGS is unset. :-) 04:43:18 (In the most recent hg version.) 04:43:39 If I set PREFIX=/usr/local/chibi, the dynamic linker won't know to look in /usr/local/chibi/lib for libchibi-scheme.so when I execute chibi-scheme linked with -lchibi-scheme. 04:43:51 That is, unless you link chibi-scheme with -R/usr/local/chibi/lib. 04:44:07 cky: Yes, it's a stupid mistake, use the prev version until I check in a fix after work. 04:44:19 foof: I've just added the #ifdef myself manually. :-) 04:45:42 rramsden [~rramsden@173.180.100.222] has joined #scheme 04:46:05 Riastradh: All the Linux systems and software I've used require setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH for non-standard install paths. 04:46:54 Or editing /etc/ld.so.conf. 04:47:19 jrt4__ [~jrtaylori@207-118-97-89.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 04:48:03 The advantage is you can move/copy the libraries. Hard-coding seems like a short-term convenience that can cause problems. 04:48:38 That's absurd, foof. LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a debugging feature. If you rely on it, it causes obscure breakage whenever I try to execute programs in a clean environment. It also doesn't work, by design, with setuid/setgid programs. 04:49:10 -!- jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-98-37.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:49:45 Riastradh: What's your opinion on having the administrator edit /etc/ld.so.conf? Then you won't have to mess with RPATH and still allow set[ug]id programs to work. 04:49:47 setuid/setgid programs are the exception 04:50:03 Riastradh: I don't know about "all the linux systems", but It's pretty common to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to non standard paths. 04:50:31 Moving things would be nice, but it doesn't work in practice in Unix unless you're extremely careful. That's why some systems support rpaths relative to the executable. 04:50:54 cky, that's ridiculous too; then I have to be an administrator in order to install anything. 04:51:04 Hmmm. 04:51:29 Unprivileged installation *does* work, unlike mobile installation. 04:52:01 Riastradh: I've read examples where both rpath and LD_LIBRARY_PATH can cause breakage. I think the whole thing is broken. I haven't seen a convincing argument to say that one or the other is preferred, but LD_LIBRARY_PATH being non-hard-coded allows greater flexibility for work-arounds. 04:52:13 didi, then when I use `env -i /bin/sh' to clean my environment in order to do a clean build of something, suddenly Chibi and J. Random Other Program that I use in the build break. 04:52:59 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:53:19 Riastradh: I'm not arguing about that. Also, think about loading shell sessions on shell sessions and it could also break it. But nevertheless, LD_LIBRARY_PATH is widely use. 04:53:41 -!- rramsden [~rramsden@173.180.100.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:54:07 LD_LIBRARY_PATH is in wide use for debugging purposes, certainly, or for testing builds before installing them. 04:54:22 Where does rpath cause breakage that would not have already been caused by a zillion other things anyway? 04:54:39 http://wiki.debian.org/RpathIssue 04:55:41 jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-117-249.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 04:56:21 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:57:03 -!- jrt4__ [~jrtaylori@207-118-97-89.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:01:17 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:02:12 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:03:13 `A problem arises when binary A defines a NEEDED dependency on libraries B.so.1 and C.so.2, while library B.so.1 depends on library C.so.1.' That's the problem, not rpath; how did you get your system into that bogus configuration in the first place? 05:03:47 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 05:03:52 Why should A know that B depends on C? 05:04:16 foof: If I understood it correctly, the solution is to not use LD_LIBRARY_PATH nor rpath. 05:05:03 Riastradh: Systems get into bogus configurations all the time. Not hard-coding things makes it easier to get out. 05:06:39 rramsden [~rramsden@173.180.120.249] has joined #scheme 05:07:27 No, systems don't get into that kind of bogus configuration all the time unless their administrators are brain-damaged. 05:07:39 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 05:08:12 -!- xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-wbibabwzpbhxwmtj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:43 That or they're using some broken development version of the operating system, and haven't had the foresight to make sure enough of the base system is available statically linked to fix the state of the world. 05:10:18 If you're upgrading libraries one at a time in place on a Unix system, you're playing with fire, and if the system actually works in any intermediate state it's only by lucky accident. 05:11:44 Riastradh: Agree. That's why I use stow for all manually-installed packages. 05:11:45 Riastradh: Isn't it the point of shared libraries? 05:12:08 didi: Oh nononono, if you upgrade a package in-place, you risk half-upgraded package. 05:12:38 So, here's how I use stow. I install using something like "make DESTDIR=~/destdir install". 05:12:40 Fine, that was hyperbole, but on Debian I have had similar breakage several times. 05:12:55 cky: So no "great, libfoo just released a new version"? 05:12:57 cd /usr/local/stow; sudo mv ~/destdir/usr/local chibi-scheme-0.4 05:13:12 sudo chown -R root: chibi-scheme-0.4; sudo stow chibi-scheme-0.4 05:13:30 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-jfdaoltdatfbupyu] has joined #scheme 05:13:36 didi: Notice how in the above, I use versioned directory names in my /usr/local/stow? 05:13:48 That means that the previous version is not overwritten. 05:14:00 To upgrade to, say, chibi-scheme-0.5, I do this: 05:14:16 cd /usr/local/stow; sudo mv ~/destdir/usr/local chibi-scheme-0.5 05:14:31 sudo chown -R root: chibi-scheme-0.5; sudo stow -D chibi-scheme-0.4; sudo stow chibi-scheme-0.5 05:14:35 But one of the points of having shared libraries is the ability of improving it without disrupting all the other programs. 05:14:54 Then, when I'm sure everything works in the new version: sudo rm -Rf chibi-scheme-0.4 05:14:57 And letting them use your improvetments. 05:15:13 Anyway, it seems there's a lot of disagreement. If you can find some semi-authoritative document claiming rpath superiority on Linux I'd consider it. 05:15:15 didi: Yes, but the way to do so is still to avoid overwriting files. 05:15:38 didi: In OpenBSD at least, if you overwrite a shared library directly, any programs currently running with it are likely to segfault. 05:16:01 In cases like these it seems much more important to just do what everyone else does. 05:16:05 didi: Instead, you have to unlink the existing shared library first, such as by renaming a new version on top. 05:17:28 didi: That also means any currently-running programs will continue to use the old version, until they quit. 05:17:37 didi: Thus, it's not so different from my stow approach. 05:17:44 Only, with the stow approach, you never have a half-upgraded package. 05:17:49 I see. 05:18:57 cky: stow always keep all the dependencies of a package in the package's tree, right? 05:19:14 didi, there are several purposes. One is to share memory -- both transient memory (RAM) and permanent memory (disk). Another is to support dynamically loading functionality into a running application. Another is to support upgrading libraries -- if you are extremely careful about what you are doing. 05:19:32 didi: What? stow is not a package manager. All it does is to ensure that two packages (that you install manually) do not step on each other's toes. 05:19:40 didi: stow does not have a concept of dependencies. 05:19:53 Riastradh: Sure. I was just pointing out _one_ objective. 05:20:14 cky: I must be confused by another thing. 05:20:19 -!- dsp_ [~tt@acidlab.technoanimal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:21:57 dsp_ [~tt@acidlab.technoanimal.net] has joined #scheme 05:22:46 didi: Uh, okay. 05:30:06 I'm trying to figure out how you could possibly have gotten into the situation described by with A, B.so.1, C.so.1, and C.so.2. 05:30:55 aidalgol [~user@114-134-8-93.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:32:31 Start with C.so.1, and B.so.1 which needs C.so.1. Install A which needs B.so.1 and C.so.2. But then A doesn't work to begin with, because it needs C.so.2 which you don't have. 05:32:57 So it doesn't matter how you try to upgrade libraries; your system was broken to begin with. 05:33:23 rob___ [~rob@happybox.org] has joined #scheme 05:35:08 Start with C.so.1, and B.so.1 which needs C.so.1. Install C.so.2. Install A which needs B.so.1 and C.so.2. But the linker can't resolve this situation (for reasons unrelated to the rpath -- because the lexical environment model is brain-damaged just like C header files), so it's moot whether you were moving libraries around or upgrading anything. 05:35:35 Start with C.so.1, and B.so.1 which needs C.so.1. Move C.so.1 out of the way. Now anything needing B.so.1 is broken anyway. 05:37:21 "System was broken to begin with" describes every other day for Debian unstable ;) 05:37:32 -!- rob___ [~rob@happybox.org] has quit [Client Quit] 05:39:49 You could start with C.so.1 and B.so.1, install C.so.2, install B.so.1.1 which needs C.so.2, and then install A; that sequence of operations would work. But rpath is nowhere involved. 05:44:25 -!- jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-117-249.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:56:10 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:56:11 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:56:25 -!- rramsden [~rramsden@173.180.120.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:56:43 -!- geoffhill [~geoffhill@wireless-165-124-144-217.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Quit: geoffhill] 05:58:17 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 06:02:04 -!- peeq [~peeq@unaffiliated/tqu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:19 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:06:05 Here is some elaboration on what is wrong with ELF and versioning (still entirely unrelated to rpath): . 06:11:41 Interesting, someone calling ELF names... 06:25:30 mejja [~user@c-0eb9e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has 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[~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:11:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-97-176.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:11:35 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 08:18:30 Blkt [~user@82.84.161.37] has joined #scheme 08:21:11 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 08:24:44 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 08:25:22 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 08:25:53 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 08:30:04 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:17 good day everyone 08:31:00 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 08:31:44 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 08:35:52 peeq [~peeq@unaffiliated/tqu] has joined #scheme 08:36:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:39:54 good day 08:45:18 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:46:17 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 08:53:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:54:26 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 09:01:08 abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-qfmygzulbpfwhkgt] has joined #scheme 09:01:59 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:02:11 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:02:27 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@87.96.150.208] has joined #scheme 09:03:21 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 09:08:25 alfa_y_omega_ [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #scheme 09:09:17 -!- pchrist 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quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:34:34 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 10:38:35 -!- LN^^ is now known as LN^off 10:42:08 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:50:05 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:50:43 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 11:01:52 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:02:37 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:02:39 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 11:02:52 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 11:03:45 -!- EbiDK [511bd602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.27.214.2] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:18:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:18:40 masm [~masm@bl19-128-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:19:01 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 11:25:36 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-8-93.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:30:38 -!- beelike [maln@78-1-173-87.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:41 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-140.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:32:09 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:33:11 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 11:36:20 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:42:01 foof: where does one best direct bugreports for fmt to? 11:43:44 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:47 (I have identified an issue in the formatting of strings in fmt-c.scm, and also have a partial fix for it) 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[~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 13:16:46 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:21:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:21:09 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 13:23:03 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 13:23:07 rotty: mail me, or submit a bug on the chicken egg 13:24:47 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:44 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 13:40:39 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:40:56 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 13:41:17 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 13:42:53 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:45:07 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:47:33 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[Disconnected by services] 14:20:29 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4d066e3c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 14:22:27 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 14:25:14 -!- rumina [~rumina@88-148-219-26.bb.dnainternet.fi] has left #scheme 14:27:15 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.47.160] has joined #scheme 14:29:30 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-164-105.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:33:38 Broa [~Broa@235.Red-83-36-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:40:15 anyone here do web dev in scheme? 14:42:28 -!- lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:13 EM03: I don't know here, but I know some do. 14:44:42 thats my main goal with scheme is to use it for web dev 14:44:44 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:44:52 hopefully with racket but not many people seem to use it 14:44:58 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45:09 i thought you said you do already. 14:45:39 with racket no 14:45:48 fastcgi with bigloo does not count 14:45:54 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 14:45:57 EM03: it's definitely possible to do it with Racket. 14:46:32 osoleve: the "power" people say with scheme for web dev is using continuations with a scheme powered server, in this case racket is like the only choice 14:47:24 EM03: continuations are a nice trick, but not all web sites need it, and even, it might not be the best choice for a web application. But it's cool. 14:47:26 but if you can't map url's from a rest way in racket and also use continuations then we have a major issue 14:47:58 yes I do need my web app to at least feed content to search engines and other things 14:49:08 so basically right now I'm having a hard time figuring out how to map url's with the racket web server which must be possible 14:49:51 If the manual doesn't help, there's probably a mail list dedicated to Racket. 14:50:53 there is ....sadly enough i never had much luck with mailing list heh 14:54:38 what an interesting situation to be in heheh 14:56:46 `Never had much luck with mailing lists?' That's like saying `I've never had much luck with talking.' Do you have trouble operating a mailer, or do you mean `a few particular mailing lists I've used [which have nothing in common with the Racket mailing list other than mode of message delivery] were not helpful'? 14:57:18 the latter and yes I'm signing up now Riastradh 14:59:05 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:00:56 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 15:05:39 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 15:10:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:17:59 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.47.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:22:10 ijp`` [~user@host109-154-206-95.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:24:55 -!- ijp` [~user@host86-150-74-137.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:28:18 -!- XTL [~XTL@dsl-olubrasgw2-fe6af800-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 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#scheme 16:32:18 mmc [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 16:33:15 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:22 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37:45 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 16:38:30 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 16:43:29 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:44:54 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:51:49 bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #scheme 16:58:44 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:02:28 josephholsten_ [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 17:03:46 -!- josephholsten_ [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has left #scheme 17:04:04 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:16:46 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 17:21:45 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 17:24:17 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 17:25:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:26:59 -!- ijp`` [~user@host109-154-206-95.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:34:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:39:32 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #scheme 17:40:19 is jazzscheme popular 17:40:59 because ide seemed pretty solid to me and it says it uses gambit, so seemed like a good deal 17:42:28 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 17:42:52 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:42:57 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:15 i hope you are doing fine about the production environment project 17:43:18 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 17:43:26 woops, wrong channel 17:44:00 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #scheme 17:44:08 kenanb: never heard about jazzscheme, but gambit certainly has some users 17:44:10 monqy [~chap@pool-71-102-217-117.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:44:28 http://www.jazzscheme.org/ 17:45:34 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 17:46:10 afaik it was a commercial environment on top of a scheme implementation -jazzscheme- which wasn't fully r5rs compliant, but then opensourced and made to work on top of standard compliant schemes 17:46:23 i think it can work on gambit and chicken 17:46:28 not sure though 17:53:59 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 17:54:51 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55:05 foof, is there an online version of chibi.html ? 17:55:17 When the hg build breaks I have a hard time creating it 17:56:36 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC057EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58:25 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:03:15 -!- stis [~stis@82.182.254.46] has left #scheme 18:03:22 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4d066e3c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:03:33 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbed527.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:43 TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:04:15 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:05:30 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-128-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- peeq [~peeq@unaffiliated/tqu] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- osoleve [~osoleve@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:31 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:07:29 osoleve [~osoleve@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 18:07:30 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 18:08:28 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #scheme 18:08:47 masm [~masm@2.80.128.12] has joined #scheme 18:09:06 peeq [~peeq@117.192.115.160] has joined #scheme 18:09:06 -!- peeq [~peeq@117.192.115.160] has quit [Changing host] 18:09:06 peeq [~peeq@unaffiliated/tqu] has joined #scheme 18:16:52 -!- TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]] 18:18:12 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:48 kenanb: I haven't used jazz myself, but I know people who use it daily and are pretty happy about it. 18:22:40 kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:30:36 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 18:35:00 stis [~stis@host-95-201-112-88.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 18:36:27 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 18:42:03 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:42:19 rramsden [~rramsden@S01060017c54ba249.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:50 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 18:45:21 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 18:45:31 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has left #scheme 18:46:01 https://gist.github.com/942794 is this an OK bnf for lisp(-1)? 18:46:11 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:37 appamatto: The build should not be breaking. End of story. 18:46:51 -!- rramsden [~rramsden@S01060017c54ba249.pk.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:48:35 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:51:03 atomx [~user@86.35.150.23] has joined #scheme 18:52:10 -!- osoleve [~osoleve@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has left #scheme 18:55:05 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:44 cky, it doesn't after updating to the most recent hg 18:56:00 appamatto: Really? Update again and try again. 19:01:21 it doesn't break I meant 19:01:24 In other words it's working now 19:18:23 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #scheme 19:19:10 :-) 19:19:49 aisa_ [~aisa@68.35.164.105] has joined #scheme 19:21:38 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-164-105.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:38 -!- aisa_ is now known as aisa 19:36:48 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:01 aisa_ [~aisa@c-68-35-164-105.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:42:15 -!- aisa [~aisa@68.35.164.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:42:16 -!- aisa_ is now known as aisa 19:44:14 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:46:20 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@58.230.108.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:43 -!- Broa [~Broa@235.Red-83-36-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:53:54 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:56:06 simonh [~simonh@78.148.143.192] has joined #scheme 20:03:23 -!- 36DABGDI8 is now known as dlouhy 20:07:12 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 20:07:55 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:01 josephholsten_ [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 20:08:07 -!- josephholsten_ is now known as josephholsten 20:08:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-68.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:09:36 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has left #scheme 20:12:31 -!- stis [~stis@host-95-201-112-88.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:37 jrtayloriv [~jrtaylori@207-118-117-109.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 20:14:44 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbed527.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:15:24 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfcdae.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:15:29 kuribas [~user@d54C43D8A.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 20:21:01 chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-92-9-217.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 20:21:42 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c72ce0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:21:51 -!- homie [~levgue@78.35.173.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:52 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:48 peeq_ [~peeq@117.192.101.197] has joined #scheme 20:26:48 -!- tonyg [~tonyg@navarone.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:48 -!- peeq_ [~peeq@117.192.101.197] has quit [Changing host] 20:26:48 peeq_ [~peeq@unaffiliated/tqu] has joined #scheme 20:27:23 -!- peeq [~peeq@unaffiliated/tqu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:34:19 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:37:32 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 20:38:28 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@frank.ldc.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:58 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 20:40:45 Unthahorsten [~Unthahors@del63-3-88-177-167-25.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:43:09 chibi-scheme => success rlwrap chibi-scheme => libchibi-scheme.so not found 20:43:24 currently installed to /usr/local using stow 20:44:37 ysph [~user@75-143-82-29.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:47:28 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-92-9-217.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:54 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:56:06 foof: you have done a nice job writing R7RS. 20:56:39 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:56:50 However it is a bit surprising that GJS is not cited in the R7RS author draft, isn't he member of WG1 ? 20:58:22 Unthahorsten: I know he voted some. Not sure of his overall involvement (maybe foof or jcowan knows). 20:59:32 He voted but didn't participate otherwise, AFAIK. 20:59:42 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:59:43 appamatto: Norepro. 20:59:47 what is the expected date of r7rs to finish 20:59:53 appamatto: Did you run ldconfig first? 20:59:58 and are there any radical changes expected? 21:00:02 Depends on how many issues we get and how much more critique there is. 21:00:19 kenanb: If they want do to a decent job, then it can't be rushed. 21:00:40 cky: i totally agree on that with you 21:01:01 :-) 21:01:29 cky: Sure, and his vote was enlightening. pretty disappoiting not to see him on the draft. 21:02:07 Anyone who didn't vote in the second ballot doesn't appear on the draft. 21:02:20 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/report/1?asc=1&sort=status <-- the tickets with status = "new" are still pending 21:02:27 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:02:44 jcowan: Ok, thanks 21:03:15 Glad to see a "Mimsy Were The Borogoves" reference! 21:03:18 appamatto: rlwrap works for me with chibi-scheme, including the history save/restore. 21:03:26 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 21:05:40 btw what are mostly the current popular choices of scheme community on which revision, ide and libraries to use 21:06:14 did people switch to r6rs? or did they stay mostly on r5rs 21:06:32 and is there a popular ide among folks? 21:07:39 He ;) Beware the Jabberwock, my son! 21:07:55 i have had some experience with racket lately, but it seems to start diverging from scheme's defacto refs lately 21:09:31 foof, does finalizer: assume that the the function takes a single pointer to the struct in question? 21:09:32 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 21:11:20 kenanb: #scheme seems to lean towards R5RS + SRFIs and Emacs, in my experience. But, of course, there are many exceptions to that and it doesn't say much about the Scheme community at large (of which I know very little). 21:11:21 kenanb: Only lately? Racket has been doing its own thing for a long time now. ;-) 21:11:56 Broa [~Broa@235.Red-83-36-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:13:05 http://schemers.org/Implementations/#environments 21:13:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:13:47 the only thing that makes me think it might be an ide compatible with latest revisions is the eclipse ide in that list 21:14:08 so what do you folks use as your scheme environment? 21:14:12 kenanb, that list is quite old 21:14:15 cky, yeah, ran ldconfig 21:14:40 i am not sure but i remind reading about a slime-like emacs ide for schem 21:14:43 e 21:15:28 hmm, i thought schemers is the main page where scheme community's latest news can be found, but that was only a guess :) 21:15:41 is there some other main reference site for scheme? 21:15:57 ups 21:16:04 sorry for not looking at the topic 21:17:46 appamatto: That's 100% odd, then. 21:19:19 Can you pastebin the output of "LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1 chibi-scheme"? 21:19:49 hmm, schemewiki also seems to be a very good source 21:20:03 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 21:20:04 but is there a popular ide that folks use? 21:20:36 -!- Unthahorsten [~Unthahors@del63-3-88-177-167-25.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: goodbye] 21:20:56 kenanb: emacs 21:21:26 This is easily the best ffi I've ever used 21:21:35 At least for getting up and running 21:21:59 appamatto: how does it compare with chicken's? i'll have to check it out. 21:22:08 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has left #scheme 21:22:26 cky, likely the culprit: libchibi-scheme.so => /home/appamatto/chibi/lib/libchibi-scheme.so 21:22:34 klutometis, haven't used chicken's 21:22:49 This (chibi) is my first scheme actually 21:23:10 Well, not according to the authorities 21:23:30 mustapha_ [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has joined #scheme 21:23:49 What is the general opinion on "teach yourself scheme in fixnum days" ? 21:23:58 http://www.neilvandyke.org/quack/ 21:24:05 ok that is cool enuf :D 21:24:11 -!- mustapha_ is now known as baus 21:28:15 foof, is there any support for callbacks from C? 21:28:59 cky, not sure why (or how) the .so is getting loaded there 21:31:40 jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-118-136.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 21:32:58 -!- jrtayloriv [~jrtaylori@207-118-117-109.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:15 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:33:38 w 2 21:33:40 fail 21:33:56 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 21:35:51 -!- baus [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:55 mustapha [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has joined #scheme 21:37:12 mustapha, it's pretty old 21:40:40 jrt4__ [~jrtaylori@98.125.210.9] has joined #scheme 21:40:57 lbc_ [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 21:41:21 -!- mustapha [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has quit [Quit: [BX] Save water -- drink beer!] 21:42:18 -!- jrt4 [~jrtaylori@207-118-118-136.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:42:20 StayInSkool [~StayInSko@CPE001d7e3441e8-CM001a668109ee.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:42:48 foof, is there a way to define constants using the value from the header file? 21:43:59 appamatto: Do a clean build after doing "hg pull -u". 21:45:01 tessier_ [~treed@216.105.40.123] has joined #scheme 21:45:06 -!- tessier_ [~treed@216.105.40.123] has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:50:24 hmm, for some reason using define in a module is causing problems 21:50:33 Complains about not finding the variable I am defining 21:53:34 -!- simonh [~simonh@78.148.143.192] has left #scheme 21:54:36 cky, still no dice :P 21:54:49 (re: clean build after pull) 21:55:29 still pointing to the .so in my home directory 21:56:58 zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 21:58:42 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 22:02:43 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:02:56 any racket web server users around? 22:03:25 EM03, really, ask on the mailing list 22:03:26 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 22:03:33 yea I did :) 22:07:03 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:07:35 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 22:07:56 zmv_ [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 22:10:36 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:17:28 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 22:18:38 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 22:19:09 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:21:22 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533906.virtua.com.br] has left #scheme 22:27:20 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-164-105.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 22:27:33 Did you guys see this essay about the "Lisp Curse," by the way? 22:27:42 so is this wg1 and wg2 seperately organized to work on different parts of the revision? or are they two different groups based on diverging ideas on the revision of the language? 22:27:43 His central thesis is: "Lisp is so powerful that problems which are technical issues in other programming languages are social issues in Lisp." 22:28:33 klutometis: It's comforting. ;) 22:28:44 didi: in what sense? 22:29:06 klutometis: That the problems don't lies on the language itself. 22:30:22 I see; his point, however, was that secondary and tertiary effects (such as social effects, etc.) matter. It may not be sufficient to have a good language. 22:30:41 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-bboybuhibfipjekb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:49 i think the thesis is kind of pointless because it points to an issue like: here is a powerful language, that power comes with consequences- EOF 22:32:04 Although his point about lack of libraries is pretty real. 22:32:17 like what? 22:32:22 Or complete libraries. 22:32:25 ah 22:32:41 that might be an issue for some subjects, yes 22:32:55 GUI is one of them, I would say. 22:33:09 but calling lisp dialects "lacking libraries" would probably be kinda crazy 22:33:22 kenanb: Yeah, I know. 22:33:23 didi: really? with a reasonable ffi, any c/java/python library is open to you. 22:33:31 klutometis: I don't want FFIs. 22:33:43 Crossing borders are horrible. 22:33:47 s/are/is 22:33:49 so you want native libraries? 22:34:16 kenanb: I want comfortable and sweet. 22:34:30 -!- jrt4__ [~jrtaylori@98.125.210.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:31 Everyone wants that. 22:34:40 How likes to fight the GC? 22:34:47 s/How/Who 22:34:52 jrtayloriv [~jrtaylori@98.125.210.9] has joined #scheme 22:35:06 ah, so your problem is not with ffi, but the layer on top of it not being thick enuf? 22:36:02 kenanb: I guess if you really want to go the FFI way, crossing between languages feels really awkward, don't you think? 22:36:37 -!- B4R0N [~baron@187.17.141.116] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:36:41 it is not really a choice mostly 22:36:47 Exactly. 22:37:32 i can understand if someone looks for a native RNG library for his language, but that is obviously not the case for 3d graphics 22:38:04 racket is taking up about 325MB of memory just for editing one file. Is that normal for racket? Or is it a Scheme behaviour? 22:39:11 Bahman: it's difficult to generalize across schemes; i'd wager it's racket. 22:39:29 Bahman: when you say racket, I assume you mean the drracket IDE? 22:39:30 Bahman: Using huge amounts of memory doesn't seem right for any scheme. 22:39:48 Bahman: is the space used by the environment itself excluded from that number? 22:39:56 bremner_: Yes. drracket. 22:40:22 kenanb: By environment you mean Gnome and such? 22:40:29 Then yes. 22:40:33 yeah, it looks similar to what I have here. 22:41:04 Strange. A full fledged Java IDE like Eclipse would eat up that much memory. 22:41:13 racket on the command line uses about 30M 22:41:25 Ah. So it's the UI. 22:41:30 I guess. 22:41:41 Bahman: the racket ide itself uses 250 mb when idle 22:42:02 kenanb: Yes. Run a file and 128M is added. 22:42:23 Wow. That's a lot. 22:42:40 how much is it relative to your entire system? 22:43:08 jonrafkind: I have 4G of RAM if that's what you mean. 22:43:13 btw what do you mean by running a file 22:43:34 kenanb: Clicking 'Run' on the toolbar :-) 22:43:38 you can probably unload some tools to reduce drracket's memory usage 22:44:19 jonrafkind: Not a problem right now but I was shocked since that kind of usage I have only seen by *large* Java programs. 22:44:34 what is that file 22:44:50 the space usage you are seeing is purely drracket, not the program you are running 22:44:58 if you use racket on the command line you will see something like 40m probably 22:45:41 Bahman: do not confuse interactive lisp implementation environments with other language environments, they are mostly languages written on top of itself from the scratch 22:46:08 kenanb: a 270 line source file. Simple functions from "The little schemer". 22:46:27 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:44 Alright. Thanks folks for the info. 22:47:11 so comparisons like "this hello-world ui dialog written in c is 1 mb's in my drive, but the executable created by foo lisp dialect is 50 mb's" are not logical 22:47:15 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.208.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 22:48:08 Speaking of DrRacket, the 5.1 version is rendering horribly here, with narrow menus, for example. 22:48:11 I see. 22:48:46 didi: Same version on ArchLinux + Gnome works fine for me. 22:49:05 didi, got a screenshot? 22:49:12 jonrafkind: One second. 22:51:11 jonrafkind: Do you have a place to post it? 22:51:40 i mean i can put it somewhere, but i dont have anonymous upload or something. you can just email it to me, jon@rafkind.com 22:51:59 http://www.pasteall.org/pic/ 22:52:03 didi: Use img.ur 22:52:06 you can paste it here 22:52:48 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 22:54:07 Here we go: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/11565 22:54:38 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 22:55:26 didi, can you quickly describe your system? 22:55:35 jonrafkind: Ubuntu 10.10 22:55:41 ok 22:55:56 -!- bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has left #scheme 22:56:12 i am using latest racket on ubuntu 10.10, haven't seen such behavior before, strange 22:56:24 maybe it has to do with using french? 22:56:35 actually is that italian? 22:56:35 -!- Broa [~Broa@235.Red-83-36-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:56:48 jonrafkind: You have one more chance. ;) 22:56:50 Portuguese. 22:56:53 rofl sorry 22:56:55 but how can using a foreign language cause that effect 22:56:59 im not very worldly 22:57:01 np 22:57:16 maybe the underlying pango library is broken 22:58:35 didi: Have you tried changing Gnome theme and see if it makes any difference? 22:58:39 can you try reverting font sizes to defaults from prefs 22:58:50 Bahman: No, I didn't. Actually, a just installed. 22:58:54 i mean from drracket prefs 22:58:54 s/a/I 22:59:17 kenanb: I'll try to find it. 22:59:43 its funny that 'macro stepper' and 'debug' arent translated 23:00:10 the bottom button of the second leftmost menu item 23:00:17 jonrafkind: It's not uncommon to not translate some words or expressions. 23:00:21 jonrafkind: yes, i figured that too 23:00:29 yea, its understandable, just funny 23:00:45 didi: another thing to try is running it from the command line with LANG=C drracket 23:00:49 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:00:54 what LANG is portuguese? 23:01:14 pt? 23:01:21 pt_BR here. 23:01:22 br ;) 23:01:28 bremner_: :P 23:01:49 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has left #scheme 23:02:04 locale not supported 23:02:23 what part of brazil didi ? 23:02:24 wait, now drrracket shows up in portuguese 23:02:30 my menus are ok 23:02:31 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.231.88] has joined #scheme 23:02:35 EM03: São Paulo. 23:02:46 city or state? 23:03:00 EM03: Both. 23:03:28 hehe yea 23:03:30 bremner_: The locale didn't change it. Now I have a narrow English menu. 23:03:33 EM03: And you? 23:03:37 *EM03* lived in RJ for 8 years 23:03:53 Nice. 23:04:05 well 7.5 23:04:52 EM03: Why leave? Come back. 23:05:02 well i visit 23:05:31 my pt_br sucks now since I don't speak it.....have a hard time being correct grammar wise 23:06:13 and i mean things are not so different in brazil all I did was program and now in the US all I do is program :) 23:06:17 EM03: Hehe, who cares? I suck hard in Portuguese too. ;) 23:06:57 I do miss all the fun times on the beach though, haven't been to a beach in years 23:07:35 Well, you know where the airport is. 23:07:39 but rj as in many other cities in brazil just have many issues, poverty is something I used to get depressed about 23:08:00 Sure. 23:09:06 so many children's potential ruined because they were born to a different mother 23:11:36 In the us although I'm still very thoughtful of people living in poverty it is childs play compared to brazil 23:11:40 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:50 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 23:14:29 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:14:34 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:55 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has left #scheme 23:15:45 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 23:18:28 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:20:51 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 23:22:03 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:23:42 -!- ehiggs [~ehiggs@87-194-210-227.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:31:31 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:18 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:42:10 Time to hit the pillow. See you later all. 23:42:28 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:46 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 23:43:41 brazil is nice :D 23:44:53 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:45:25 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-82-29.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:50:59 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.210.216] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 23:52:12 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-d9bfcdae.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:52:22 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-4dbed1ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 23:52:58 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:15 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 23:56:38 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme