00:03:05 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-168-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:09:14 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:27 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 00:23:29 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ebg-10004083621.jpl.nasa.gov] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:26:28 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 00:26:55 sloyd [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has joined #scheme 00:30:00 -!- wharrrgarbl [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:56 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:02 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:39:21 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:39:29 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-192.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:40:48 kilimanja [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:41:40 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 00:43:45 -!- Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Oabl] 00:44:01 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:44:53 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 00:45:59 -!- kilimanja [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:01 tfwtf [~chris-kun@99-203-148-173.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #scheme 00:47:38 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:47:52 -!- chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:47:57 -!- tfwtf is now known as saiko-chriskun 00:48:05 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@99-203-148-173.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:48:05 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 00:48:07 chris-kun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has joined #scheme 00:51:53 nikania [~nikania@c-24-16-137-194.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:53:05 hello, I'm new to scheme. I'm trying to write a function unzip that does this (unzip '(a b c d e f)) => (a c e) (b d f) 00:53:11 I'm using recursion 00:53:27 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:53:47 I would really appreaciate it if someone could help me figure this out 00:53:56 I started learning scheme last week 00:53:58 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@fsf/member/saiko-chriskun] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:54:01 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-192.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:59:48 nikania: the semantics of unzip are a little weird, aren't they? cf. . 00:59:53 incubot: (call-with-values (lambda () (unzip2 '((1 2) (3 4)))) (lambda (a b) (list a b))) 00:59:54 ((1 3) (2 4)) 01:01:53 Presumably, klutometis, he is following an exercise from his class, not reimplementing SRFI 1. 01:03:16 yeah, they are a bit weird. here is my code, but it gives me an error 01:03:17 http://pastebin.com/MY5XKLMw 01:03:27 I don't know where the problem is 01:03:32 (Also, `semantics' is singular, not plural.) 01:05:53 If it gives you an error, nikania, you should specify what error it gives you. 01:06:15 In general, you should always specify (1) exactly what you typed, (2) exactly what you saw, and (3) exactly what you expected to see. 01:07:18 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:08:36 ok sorry, I typed (unzip '(a b c d e f)) and it gave me this error mcdr: expects argument of type ; given () 01:09:06 I expected to see ((a c e) (b d f)) 01:10:11 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:13:06 Well, where could you have tried to pass (), which is not a pair, to CDR? 01:14:33 cdr rest? 01:15:08 or cdr lst? maybe? 01:15:38 these are the only two places where I pass something to cdr 01:17:31 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:21:29 ymasory [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined 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06:14:22 ahc [~Antti@z241.ip6.netikka.fi] has joined #scheme 06:15:05 Does mzscheme not have the atom? function? It's giving errors when I try to use it. 06:15:29 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-192.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 06:23:30 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:24:48 `atom?' is not a standard scheme function. Are you reading The Little Schemer? 06:25:25 The little schemer gives a definition for atom? if your scheme system lacks it IIRC 06:32:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-7.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:50:04 mmc1 [~michal@85.90.76.66] has joined #scheme 06:51:08 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-192.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:02:55 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 07:09:54 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-205.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:13:45 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:27:08 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:28:02 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:30:34 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 07:37:16 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-192.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:40:08 -!- ahc [~Antti@z241.ip6.netikka.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:48:32 chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-165-6.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:48:54 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 07:53:50 -!- user18 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:56:08 hmm, 'racket is a programming language'... maybe not the most insightful short description. 07:57:12 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:59:00 Cin [~Cin@pdpc/supporter/student/zhuangzi] has joined #scheme 07:59:03 -!- Cin [~Cin@pdpc/supporter/student/zhuangzi] has left #scheme 08:00:37 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has joined #scheme 08:04:02 racket is a crime. 08:04:09 shorter and more insightful. 08:06:07 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 08:06:17 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:42 copumpkin 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[~alaric@93-96-143-25.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:30:30 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:31:23 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 08:39:33 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:43:30 -!- jrtayloriv [~jrtaylori@207-118-96-79.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:43:42 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:46:18 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@93-96-143-25.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:48:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 08:51:46 pjb: You should revise your jokes. 08:51:56 masm [~masm@bl16-168-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 08:53:03 -!- ahc [~Antti@1706.pc.puv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:53:41 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:01:22 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 09:02:02 -!- elly 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timeout: 246 seconds] 11:34:19 xwl [~user@114.241.251.213] has joined #scheme 11:38:08 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:38:24 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:42:09 peter__ [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 11:42:10 -!- peter__ is now known as sjamaan 11:42:18 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 11:42:18 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 11:42:44 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 11:45:01 eli: I don't like the new name of DrScheme. I still don't understand why they had to change the name, DrScheme was perfect. 11:46:53 presumably you also don't get why PLT scheme was renamed Racket 11:47:08 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:47:53 I suspect the two questions are closely related... 11:49:19 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 11:49:20 No, I don't get it. 11:49:41 pjb: http://racket-lang.org/new-name.html is very detailed on the subject. 11:49:58 I think I already read it. I may try again if that would please you. 11:49:58 11:50:15 (But regardless, just saying that you don't like the name works better than quesionable humor.) 11:50:44 (Maybe my bar for what qualifies as humor is too high.) 11:51:22 I do thing the scheme, racket, crime theme of jokes is pretty common... 11:52:05 It is, but nothing new in the scheme world. 11:52:40 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:44 The more I read this page, the more I'm convinced that if I want to program in scheme I should not use Racket. 11:53:14 but you always recommend common lisp anyway ;) 11:53:21 You can't have it both way either it's scheme and call it -scheme, or it's not a scheme and call it otherwise. 11:53:33 bremner: Sure, at least things are clear in CL :-) 11:54:00 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:54:19 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:54:26 pjb: it is mildly trollish to make pronouncements about software you haven't used. 11:54:38 I used to use DrScheme. 11:54:58 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 11:56:35 pjb: One thing that should be very clear after that page is that whatever it is that convinces you to not use Racket should have convinced you to not use PLT Scheme before the name change. 11:57:40 So the fact that you don't want to use Racket after you read it means that the rename was positively effective in your case -- dispelling any illusions you had before it. 11:58:54 You might be true. 12:00:02 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:06 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 12:01:00 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:01:07 (As a sidenote, if you prefer CL over Scheme (and/or Racket) so much, then what's the point of being in this channel and/or reading c.l.s?) 12:01:52 Interest for lisp in general, and I may help newbies. 12:02:40 Depending on the person, I don't mind advising scheme to newbies, instead of CL. 12:03:19 You know that CL-people-interested-in-Scheme stick out, especially when it gets to antiquated opinions on macros, right? 12:03:35 So now, first thing I have to tell them to use Racket to program in scheme, and obviously they're puzzled, and I have to explain them things irrelevant for a newbie schemer. 12:03:52 (Keep in mind that "antiquated" would be inflammatory if it wasn't for the context.) 12:03:59 are the also confused if you tell them to use GHC for Haskell? 12:04:10 I guess that has haskell in the name.. 12:04:21 Come to think about it, it might be more consistent to advise them to learn CL... 12:04:32 GHC has a ton of extensions over the haskell standard. 12:05:07 pjb: Yes, I suspect that for you it would be more consistent -- but that will also make it an obvious troll. 12:05:13 s/it/you/ 12:05:17 bremner: well, if you read new-name.html, you might be afraid that while it is _still_ scheme, racket is a research language, and it might very well evolve far from scheme and some day not even support it anymore. 12:05:29 eli: Not here. 12:05:32 IRL 12:05:37 pjb: I'm pretty much indifferent to names 12:06:00 it drives my bourbaki-trained colleagues to early retirement 12:06:04 pjb: There is nothing on that page that suggests dropping support for scheme. 12:06:28 The word "still" is repeated twice. 12:06:45 "still" = "so far" = nothing is said about the future. 12:07:04 No, "still" means "the rename does not affect it". 12:07:34 Nothing was ever said on the future, including pre-rename. 12:07:54 Saying "Racket is a scheme implementation" would be clearer. 12:08:01 It is not. 12:08:24 Racket *has an implementation* of Scheme. 12:08:31 Ok. 12:08:52 "Scheme" is so small (and useless) that "X is a scheme implementation" is bogus for any X. 12:08:59 The same can be said on CL, of course. 12:15:59 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-19.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:35:03 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:39:09 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 12:41:27 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:11 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:01 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 12:47:28 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 12:48:28 Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:54:51 andyjpb [~andyjpb@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 12:57:57 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:06 ahc [~Antti@1706.pc.puv.fi] has joined #scheme 13:04:34 -!- ahc [~Antti@1706.pc.puv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:06:52 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 13:14:00 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 13:27:53 The same can be said on CL, of course. <-- CL is small and useless? :-O 13:29:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:31:37 cky: It's less small and useless of course, but when you talk about *actual* implementations, they would obviously extend it. 13:31:47 pumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 13:31:47 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:31:47 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 13:31:55 IOW, try to find a CL implementation that implements the CL spec and nothing more. 13:32:24 aoh [~aki@85.23.168.123] has joined #scheme 13:33:13 Ah. 13:35:07 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:36:54 That said, you can write more useful programs that use only the standard COMMON-LISP than useful programs using only the standard R5RS. But indeed, all the implementations provide extensions, and there are portability libraries to homogeneize the APIs. 13:40:03 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:57 -!- thoolihan [~Tim@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:45:29 thoolihan [~Tim@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 13:47:28 chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 13:51:24 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 13:51:43 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:53:03 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:55:24 ahc [~Antti@z241.ip6.netikka.fi] has joined #scheme 13:55:30 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:55:57 eli, i would say both "Racket has an implementation of (standard) Scheme" and "Racket is a Scheme" 13:56:34 in that Scheme is both a (too small) programming language and a (mostly good) set of ideas about programming languages 14:06:01 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:07:55 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 14:10:32 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:12:18 samth: I'd rephrase the second as "Racket is in the Scheme Family", but even that is getting more questionable (due to the movement of both Racket and Scheme). 14:14:35 eli, i think we're mostly disagreeing about what "Scheme" means 14:15:16 Racket is clearly in the family of languages descended from the ideas in the LtU papers 14:16:02 it also has hygenic macros, tail cursion, and (not (eq? '() #f))) 14:17:29 peter__ [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 14:17:46 -!- peter__ is now known as sjamaan 14:17:58 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 14:17:59 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 14:19:23 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 14:19:23 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 14:19:23 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:19:40 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:19:44 samth: Yeah, but when you talk about *core* ideas, Racket is an exception in the number of new ones it has over Scheme, when compared to other implementations. 14:20:24 eli, of course 14:20:46 but Scheme has a bunch of new ideas over Lisp, but Scheme is a Lisp 14:21:33 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 14:22:19 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:25:31 samth: (equal? (- Racket Scheme) (- Scheme Lisp)) => #t 14:25:58 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o eli 14:26:48 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o eli 14:28:57 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 14:33:02 sigue [contempt@stole.ur.cc-number.info] has joined #scheme 14:33:25 eli, i seem to recall you saying that before :) 14:34:41 Yeah, using slightly different terms... 14:35:38 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 14:35:53 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:36:06 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 14:36:06 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 14:36:06 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 14:40:57 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:41:53 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 14:43:51 *eli* notices a sharp increase in "lambda" questions on SO, tagged with C++ 14:44:01 :) 14:49:17 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #scheme 14:53:30 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:24 :) c++0x is beastly 14:59:20 Don't let's be beastly to the hackers 14:59:39 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:21 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:00:43 C++0x has some substantial parts that looked pretty well-engineered to me when I glanced at it a few months ago. 15:00:44 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:03:07 Riastradh, i think the jury's still out on whether C++ can be turned into a valuable language merely by addition 15:04:50 Well, you need addition and subtraction, of course. 15:04:56 ,rimshot 15:05:04 C++-- 15:05:13 My experience is that the main problems are not the additions, but the missing deletions 15:05:16 Even Mr Stroustrup admits that. He's just not sure what to subtract. 15:06:30 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:07:06 C++ is a mans language. 15:07:21 Riastradh: It did? My impression was that the mountains of syntax seem to make even BS shudder. 15:07:39 Did what? 15:07:50 Leave a good impression on you. 15:07:58 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 15:08:15 Hmm... That's not what I said. I said: `C++0x has some substantial parts that looked pretty well-engineered to me...' 15:09:00 ok, s/leave a good impression/looked pretty well-engineered/ 15:09:19 Example: The random generation library. 15:09:58 Ah, I looked only at the interesting bits -- closures, and types. 15:10:14 Oh, I'm sure that part is a cancerous syntactic disaster. 15:11:15 There was something on that page that was amusing in that it made him say that "this syntax is ugly". 15:11:35 (And "ugly" would have been a nice polite euphemism for what I'd say on it.) 15:12:20 Found it: 15:12:26 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:12:30 The type inference may help to reduce some of the painful verbosity of C++. 15:12:33 template decltype(*(T*)(0)**(U*)(0)) mul(T x, U y) 15:12:56 With a comment below: However, calling that "not pretty" would be overly polite. 15:13:47 *eli* apologizes to anyone who was consuming food or drinks at the time he quoted the above 15:14:51 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 15:15:16 just looks like line noise 15:17:17 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:18:53 -!- mmc1 [~michal@85.90.76.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:18:59 template auto mul(T x, U y) -> decltype(x*y) 15:19:08 mmc1 [~michal@85.90.76.66] has joined #scheme 15:19:51 Now, C++0x narrowly escaped adding what would have been a real, useful semantic addition to the language, called `concepts' in the proposals, which are close to multiparameter type classes in Haskell. 15:20:46 Instead it's still stuck with its totally brain-damaged, semantically incoherent notion of `classes' for the principal general parametrization system. 15:20:58 C++ might have something like that in, perhaps, a few decades. 15:21:38 There are so many corporations and organizations represented in the standardization committee. 15:25:34 But C++ being what it is, you can still greenspun an implementation of "concepts" in the revised type system. 15:29:41 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 15:33:36 -!- mmc1 [~michal@85.90.76.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:54 mmc1 [~michal@85.90.76.66] has joined #scheme 15:38:14 -!- ahc [~Antti@z241.ip6.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:46:36 /whois nome`` 15:47:32 Having an existential crisis, nome``? 15:47:42 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 15:48:15  /whois John Galt? 15:48:30 Riastradh: would be better if erc colours leading spaces like in Makefile mode 15:51:43 eli: when PLT changed name to Racket, I wondered why they didn't choose a more unique name so that it was more google-friendly. But it turned out, that didn't matter that much. 15:52:17 nome``: I don't think the ERC protocol _allows_ leading space 15:57:50 nome``, it turns out google-friendliness is easy, bing-friendliness is hard :) 15:59:04 -!- mmc1 [~michal@85.90.76.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:59:21 mmc1 [~michal@85.90.76.66] has joined #scheme 16:00:45 I am looking for a Scheme implementation that can access data generated in C-land without importing it to its own memory (no double-copying). For example: if my C function do a read() to a buffer, I'd like a Scheme implementation that can access that buffer without making another copy. I looked at Chicken and Gambit and it seems they didn't meet the bill. 16:03:49 How hard did you try to make Gambit and Chicken do that? 16:04:21 -!- xwl [~user@114.241.251.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:59 Riastradh: With Gambit, I tried making an accessor returning ___SCMOBJ, but if I trace the code correctly, it creates a new object. I am not skilfull enough to follow Gambit's generated code. 16:05:25 s/if/assuming/ 16:06:04 What happens if you pass in a u8vector for the C routine to modify? 16:07:04 (Of course, you will probably really want to be able to gobble up an arbitrary pointer, derived from mmap, as a u8vector and use that, if you're doing anything with file I/O.) 16:07:46 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:07:51 ya, I was about to say that I cannot change the C function to start using a passed-in u8vector 16:07:59 it's an external library 16:08:43 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 16:08:56 OK, so you want to take an arbitrary pointer and turn that into a u8vector. Do you need to work with that u8vector using Scheme, or are you passing it right on to write or something? 16:11:04 dzhus [~sphinx@93-80-87-198.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:11:17 -!- kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:13:34 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:13:42 Riastradh: Let's say this is the scenario: I want to move data from one end to another. There's a configuration that says whether to move the data encrypted or in plaintext. The data producer is a 3rd party, external library. The data consumer is a network socket. In plaintext mode, I'd just pass the pointer from the producer to write() on socket. In one encrypted mode, I'd pass it to openssl. In another encrypted mode, I'd encrypt it 16:13:42 in Scheme-land. 16:15:12 Do you actually have an important mode that entails processing the data in Scheme? If not, then you can just make the pointer opaque to Scheme. 16:16:48 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 16:18:00 -!- mmc1 [~michal@85.90.76.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:20:21 Riastradh: That's actually a major requirement. We have data processing schemes that are not in openssl and need to be modifiable at run time. I used 'data processing' because it may do encryption or more. 16:21:21 I think this can be done in C with dynamic library, but I'd rather not go there. 16:22:30 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 16:24:56 OK. There's a good chance you'll have to hack something up yourself, then. Nobody designs Scheme systems for scalable I/O... 16:26:09 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 16:28:50 The data type you'll probably want will be a 3-tuple: a reference to a containing object (so that the GC can release external resources if you make a mistake), a non-traced pointer to the start of the bytes, and the number of bytes. 16:29:01 Riastradh: but thank you for the opaque pointer suggestion. I didn't think of that. This allows better processing path for the openssl and plaintext mode. 16:30:02 Now, without modifying your Scheme's compiler, you won't be able to use this for byte-by-byte processing efficiently; and without modifying your Scheme's garbage collector, you won't be able to refer to u8vectors in the Scheme heap this way, because the garbage collector will relocate their storage and invalidate the pointer you cached to the start of the bytes. 16:38:12 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 16:45:58 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:47:58 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: A poorly written script will replace me shortly.] 16:49:59 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:50:02 -!- Oabl [~Oabl@127.Red-88-5-130.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Oabl] 16:50:49 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 16:59:47 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-49-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:34 Riastradh: I don't get why the compiler has to be modified. Wouldn't having a facsimile of u8vector where you can point the begining of the first byte to an arbitrary pointer be sufficient? 17:00:45 leppie [~lolcow@196.215.49.168] has joined #scheme 17:01:06 nome``: Then what happens when it gets unreferenced? 17:01:20 nome``: Will the implementation nuke it before your C code does? 17:01:46 nome``: (Note: Your implementation's allocator is usually not malloc-compatible.) 17:02:25 cky: using the data type Riastradh mentioned. So, there's a mechanism to tell the Scheme land that C-land is not done with that object yet. 17:11:57 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:13:33 so, let's name this facsimile, myu8vec: (let ((vec (make-myu8vec some-C-ptr)) (do-something vec))). after the C code is done with the data, it calls myu8vec_free(some-C-ptr); which will reduce the reference count of the corresponding myu8vec objects (could be many). if the ref count drops to 0, they are subject to being GCed. 17:14:41 peddie [~peddie@18.181.2.107] has joined #scheme 17:15:20 Actually, scratch the ref counting. I don't see why it's needed. Just have a flag indicating when Scheme GC can reap the myu8vec object. 17:15:22 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has left #scheme 17:17:43 nome``, there is probably no built-in fast operation to take an arbitrary memory address and fetch the byte at that address. 17:19:18 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 17:19:37 That's why you will probably need to hack up the compiler. 17:19:50 -!- peddie [~peddie@18.181.2.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:20:28 You don't need any flag or reference count for garbage collection, though; that's what the reference to the containing object (e.g., a descriptor for a memory mapping, or a descriptor or a malloc'd block, or something -- when GC'd, it will trigger a finalization procedure that runs munmap, free, or what have you). 17:20:36 ...is for. 17:20:46 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:21:44 HG` [~HG@94.220.124.229] has joined #scheme 17:27:56 -!- resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:28:38 Riastradh: I still don't get it. Is there any modern system that does not have a uniform way to efficiently access a u8? I heard some stories of old systems that do not have 8-bit byte or have word-level access. 17:30:04 -!- andyjpb [~andyjpb@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:13 Every modern ISA supports the operation I described, of course. However, that doesn't mean that the Scheme implementation exposes exactly that operation, or that compiler will generate good code for it. 17:31:53 Generally, the Scheme implementation will expose a fast operation such as U8VECTOR-REF, which takes a u8vector and an index and fetches the octet at that index in the u8vector. But a u8vector is not the same thing as an arbitrary address in memory. 17:33:01 Riastradh: since the data is located outside of Scheme land, shouldn't the Scheme GC wait for a signal from the C land that the data has gone? 17:33:07 MIT Scheme provides a primitive READ-BYTE-FROM-MEMORY, which takes an integer representing the address of a byte in memory, and returns the value of the byte at that address. However, it's not fast: the compiler doesn't open-code it at all, and the address is represented by an integer, which may be itself represented by a bignum. 17:34:43 (It's mainly a debugging operation.) 17:36:04 ijp [~user@host86-163-219-165.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:41:47 nome``: What samth said -- we were aware of it, and assumed that Google will quickly adapt, which it did. 17:42:11 samth: Bing works almost fine too, I only get a link to answers.com before that. 17:42:48 Riastradh: I think I understand now. It is desirable for the compiler to generate efficient code for MYU8VEC-REF and MYU8VEC-SET! that is as efficient as what C compiler does. (I mention C compiler here because the data is in C land). If they are implemented as FFIs, then the code may not be efficient. 17:42:49 nome``: And re your pointer thing, Racket allows that, and I *think* that you could do the same with Chicken too since it has a similar libffi-based thing. 17:43:03 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C6B7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:44:37 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:45:21 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 17:45:42 eli, yeah, bing has gotten better 17:47:43 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C6B7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:20 eli: do you know if there's a Racket port to iOS? Googling for Racket and iOS or iphone or ipad didn't yield helpful results. 17:50:56 nome``, there isn't 17:51:19 there's been work on a port to android 17:51:25 emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-170497.home.otenet.gr] has joined #scheme 17:52:14 What would the point be, nome``? Apple won't allow it. 17:52:17 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:33 samth: targeting Dalvix bytecode or ARM? 17:52:40 the former, i think 17:52:53 Riastradh, apple allows creating executables using other langs 17:53:06 Riastradh: they do now. But they may change it again the next time SJ farts. 17:53:19 so you could write an app in Racket, but you couldn't put drracket on the iphone 17:53:37 samth, is this new? When I last looked at the developer agreement, a year ago, they specifically forbid that (and distributing `interpreters' or something). 17:53:54 Riastradh: just about 4-5 months ago, I think. 17:53:58 what they forbid is distributing things that can run code 17:54:39 They also required that all code submitted to Apple be roughly hand-written in some particular set of languages (e.g., Objective-C). 17:54:55 (So C generated by Chicken, say, would not be kosher.) 17:55:35 -!- amoe [~amoe@cpc1-brig13-0-0-cust658.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:55:52 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:55:54 Riastradh, they lifted that restriction 17:56:01 OK. 17:57:00 Well, anyway, it still baffles me why anyone would want anything to do with such a fascist platform, even if they have (perhaps temporarily) lifted one particular obnoxious restriction. 17:57:14 i certainly agree with that 17:57:30 actually, i know exactly why -- lots of people use it, and will pay money for apps 17:57:42 They command a large market share among non-techies and my employer wants to have a presence there. 17:58:43 Oh, you could have an easy presence there: an app that does nothing but say `Sorry, you paid money for a fascist platform that we're not legally allowed to make our software work on. Don't like it? Complain to Apple, or try Android!' 17:59:12 But I guess that idea wouldn't go down well with pointy hair. 17:59:31 Nope. neither to my paycheck. 18:00:33 FWIW, I did my geek duty and promoted developing for Android first. 18:06:09 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable182.177-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:07:07 samth: MAKE-CVECTOR* ? 18:07:23 nome``, ? 18:07:51 samth: sorry, that was for eli 18:09:53 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@93-80-87-198.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!] 18:10:34 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:42 araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has joined #scheme 18:13:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has quit [Changing host] 18:13:42 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:15:26 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:16:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Client Quit] 18:19:20 nome``: Just the ability to refer to arbitrary pointers, there's lots of things that can do that. As for actual names, I don't know what Chicken uses. 18:19:37 TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:19:52 samth: (I created an account on answers.com, but the interface is unbelievably bad...) 18:21:11 araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has joined #scheme 18:21:11 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.51.34] has quit [Changing host] 18:21:11 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:22:15 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:23:20 -!- emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-170497.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:31 eli: you know opencog? 18:25:42 ...and openanswers? 18:25:58 that is the future 18:26:14 teurastaja, we're just talking about SEO for answers.com 18:26:31 seo? 18:26:35 my goodness: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133389973 18:26:39 search enginge optimization 18:26:52 teurastaja: bing seems to pay attention to it, in the same way that google pays attention to wikipedia. 18:27:41 they pay attention? like sponsoring? 18:28:29 drdo [~user@194.210.228.2] has joined #scheme 18:28:40 as in, it shows up early in their results 18:28:52 ie, search for "racket" on bing 18:29:16 Given how bad it is, I won't be surprised if they sponsor it in some way. 18:29:37 It's bad enough that it should die a natural death, yet it's still alive. 18:29:41 as long as its open source... 18:29:57 you mean racket? 18:29:57 That doesn't make any difference here. 18:30:36 *eli* gives up and blinks 18:31:24 teurastaja, search for racket on bing, note that answers.com is the first hit and doesn't discuss our software => eli tries to address this situation 18:31:29 it's pretty simple 18:31:43 its just that they made decisions early to keep up. there has to be a scheme variant like this because its not specified anyway yet 18:31:57 oh 18:32:03 teurastaja, what are you talking about? 18:32:05 there are methods for changing that 18:32:29 boosting the results 18:33:31 samth: Looks like answer.com is always in the first three, and it sucks the same for "Scheme" and "Lisp". 18:33:56 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 18:34:08 Does anyone actually use Bing? 18:34:19 i always knew micrtosoft was open minded towards competition 18:34:21 Riastradh, some mobile phones :) 18:34:41 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:34:42 Caleb--: because the notation is confusing, yes. 18:35:18 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 18:36:16 -!- clklein [~clklein@spaghetti.cs.northwestern.edu] has left #scheme 18:36:18 theyd rather use closed-source than anything that might favour tweaking into the source like scheme 18:36:25 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:37:08 i think they favour obscured object-orientation 18:37:14 teurastaja: Closed source or open source don't enter into it. 18:37:25 eli: Chicken's doc says that the double-copying is unavoidable: "if you malloc in C, and intend to leave it there, and directly access parts of that data from Scheme, you will need C accessor functions to pinpoint the parts you need and return them as Scheme objects". 18:37:36 Malice, incompetence, attribution, &c. 18:38:25 nome``: IIRC, it's called lazy ffi, or something else with "lazy" in it. What you quote sounds like something else. 18:39:02 anyways... how do you implement call/cc using cps or something else im not aware of? 18:39:27 teurastaja: (define (cwcc p k) (p (lambda (v k*) (k v)) k)) 18:40:01 lol 18:40:06 kuribas [~user@d54C4334E.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:40:17 i need time to absorb this 18:40:54 ok 18:41:11 and without cps? 18:41:33 or with cps abstracted 18:41:45 ? 18:41:56 implicit 18:42:09 Here is the definition with the CPS `abstracted' or `implicit': 18:42:48 s/k/implicit-or-abstracted-k/ 18:43:13 thats regexp were not in perl:P 18:45:30 maybe id better ask for an easy-to-read implementation source code? 18:45:55 from scheme to scheme 18:51:08 wheres the k* coming from? 18:51:49 It's the continuation with which the escape procedure was called. The escape procedure ignores it, and uses a different continuation (k) instead. 18:56:39 i have another question regarding tspl4 exercises: 3.3.3 18:56:57 the use of set! without previous declaration 18:57:18 first time i see this 18:57:28 and theres nothing explaining that 18:57:55 where is it bound? 18:58:01 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 18:58:05 where is it visible? 18:58:35 does it use the global namespace? 18:59:58 http://www.scheme.com/tspl4/further.html#g72 19:00:21 the answers are in the answers section 19:00:31 i wont paste it all 19:01:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-91.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:03:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-91.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:25 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-91.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:06:34 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:33 these are the only places using quit-k (trying to understand): 19:13:35 (define start 19:13:35 (lambda () 19:13:35 (call/cc 19:13:35 (lambda (k) 19:13:36 (set! quit-k k) 19:13:40 (next))))) 19:13:46 (define quit 19:13:46 (lambda (v) 19:13:46 (if (null? lwp-list) 19:13:47 (quit-k v) 19:13:49 (next)))) 19:14:10 Probably it omitted (define quit-k (lambda (v) (error))) above. 19:15:18 oh! so if quit-k wasnt set! its an error to use it. nice 19:16:42 but with all rewrites of tspl i read (for answers), it keeps the same code 19:17:24 heres the rest: (define lwp-list '()) 19:17:24 (define lwp 19:17:24 (lambda (thunk) 19:17:24 (set! lwp-list (append lwp-list (list thunk))))) 19:17:46 (define next 19:17:47 (lambda () 19:17:47 (let ([p (car lwp-list)]) 19:17:47 (set! lwp-list (cdr lwp-list)) 19:17:47 (p)))) 19:17:55 (define pause 19:17:55 (lambda () 19:17:55 (call/cc 19:17:55 (lambda (k) 19:17:55 (lwp (lambda () (k #f))) 19:17:57 (next))))) 19:18:01 thats it 19:18:09 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:18:58 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:12 am i alone to find theres something wrong with this? 19:27:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:28:28 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:28:50 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:27 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 19:31:41 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:33:10 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 19:34:08 Am I also alone to find that the (define x (lambda (args))) style looks awkward? I've seen that for years but never get used to that. Each time, I have to mentally transform it to (define (x args)) 19:34:49 (let ((x (lambda (args))))), however, does not look awkward. wierd. 19:34:58 i think it's less awkward. 19:35:59 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:36:32 -!- HG` [~HG@94.220.124.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:37:01 I use (define (f ...) ...) always and find (define f (lambda ...)) generally to look silly. 19:37:18 DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 19:40:38 unless making some pedantic point about scoping/binding 19:42:13 s/pedantic/pedagogical/ 19:43:03 chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:51:49 user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has joined #scheme 19:53:05 -!- chris-kun is now known as saiko-chriskun 20:07:48 binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has joined #scheme 20:08:12 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 20:09:09 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:11 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:16 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:12:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:18:39 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:21:23 rbev [~Earth@63.228.226.1] has joined #scheme 20:23:07 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:26 sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 20:23:26 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 20:23:27 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 20:26:03 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 20:26:08 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 20:26:52 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 20:27:07 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 20:34:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 20:35:10 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable182.177-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: (call/cc (lambda (k) (chat) (k "(call/cc (lambda (k) (chat) (k)))")))] 20:37:43 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:46:26 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:51:42 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:40 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:58 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:55:09 -!- binary_crayon [~binary_cr@pp002332dca816.usask.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:36 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 21:05:50 chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 21:08:14 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-110-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:13:06 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 21:20:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:34:20 Is there any web application framework for Scheme other than the one provided by Racket/PLT? 21:35:50 Depending on how high your standards are for `framework', yes. For example, Guile has: http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Web-Examples.html 21:36:05 And many other Schemes have stuff 21:36:27 I was trying for the `vague statement' award there 21:37:23 See: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/awful I think 21:38:51 I don't really know what I'm talking about. But the point is "yes". :-) 21:51:13 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 22:09:38 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:13:53 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-128-225-140.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:14:15 rbev: I use chicken scheme for web dev :] 22:14:45 ah yeah as fds mentioned 22:17:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 22:18:06 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 22:20:36 rbev: There's also SISCweb 22:20:58 And IIRC "hop" has something to do with Scheme, but I'm not sure 22:22:34 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:12 Cool. Thank you, all. 22:26:20 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:59 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C4334E.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:46 -!- rbev [~Earth@63.228.226.1] has left #scheme 22:49:13 -!- Caleb-- [thedude@109.64.213.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:49:54 Caleb-- [~caleb@109.64.201.20] has joined #scheme 22:57:31 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:57:44 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 23:02:02 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 23:02:56 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-168-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:33 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 23:11:31 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:29:16 spacemagic [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:32:07 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:33:00 can you define (error "message" irritant) like (define (error string irritant) (begin (display string) (display irritant))) 23:33:07 or does error do more than that 23:33:40 It usually also stops the program and enters a debugger. 23:34:42 hmmm.. I just want it to exit the current procedure and return the message to the screen 23:35:00 What is the `current procedure'? 23:36:45 using r5rs in drracket: I have a lot of procedures that just print strings for error messages at the moment 23:37:13 but when you print a string for an error and another procedure needs the output of that other it creates a problem 23:39:01 why don't you just 'require' a proper error procedure? 23:41:21 I don't understand your problem, spacemagic. Can you step back a moment, and explain the context -- explain the problem of which an ERROR procedure is a subproblem? 23:42:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:44:16 so, in a cond statment (cond ((thing-that-shouldn't-be) (error "message" irritant) is desired, but I can only return a string as an error message 23:45:07 which if I call the output from another procedure, it won't be expecting a string 23:45:53 Step back a little further. What's the real problem you're trying to solve, of which reporting errors is a subproblem? 23:46:01 What does your code actually look like? 23:46:46 about 500 lines of procedures that deal with representing a railroad in lists and sublists 23:47:40 ericbb [~user@blk-224-153-99.eastlink.ca] has joined #scheme 23:49:54 Better yet, what's wrong with using the built-in ERROR procedure? 23:50:18 that's what I was asking about 23:50:28 in r5rs (error ...) is undefined 23:51:04 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:51:58 Well, Racket has an ERROR procedure that you can get at somehow. Perhaps it suffices to put (#%require srfi/23) near the top of your file. 23:53:00 you sir are great 23:53:08 worked prefectly 23:53:25 (That's not the right way to do it; I'm sure there's a better way.) 23:53:27 what does that require actually do? 23:54:57 It lets you use SRFI 23 . 23:57:13 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-62-150.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:57:46 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]