00:05:34 BestKeptSecret [~wizardken@adsl-99-30-144-105.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:05:36 -!- BestKeptSecret [~wizardken@adsl-99-30-144-105.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 00:10:04 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:14:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-214.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:18:16 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:33:35 Somelauw [~laurent@unaffiliated/somelauw] has joined #scheme 00:34:22 Hi, I am trying to make my own language. I haven't started implementing it but I am still designing. 00:35:08 Did you ever implement your own language except scheme? 00:35:44 Somelauw: What do you want your language to have, that Scheme doesn't already do? 00:36:02 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:36:02 static typing 00:36:11 Have you played with Typed Racket? 00:36:13 What do you think of it? 00:36:21 no, I haven't 00:36:42 Okay, it's worth playing with, if at least so you can design a type system that exceeds what they provide. 00:37:17 It doesn't have anything scheme doesn't have, but is just different in a couple of ways. 00:37:47 Like m-expressions and some infix syntax. 00:38:33 Okay. Can you articulate how your infix syntax will be sensible? Does it work like Haskell's? 00:39:15 (I'm asking you these questions so you can use other well-thought-out languages as yardsticks. That way, you can build on their advantages.) 00:39:28 Do you want to see an example? 00:39:44 Still designing the syntax so nothing definite. 00:39:45 Go ahead. 00:39:50 http://pastebin.com/5HEZ9Hjy 00:39:56 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:40:36 What's a ()#? 00:41:00 It's a lambda without parameters. 00:41:33 You can consider it a lazy evaluated expressions. 00:41:45 It sounds like you're implementing it on JVM. 00:42:01 Have you ever played with Scala? 00:42:07 It has generics, type inference, etc. 00:42:15 Yes, I haven't decided where to implement it on. 00:42:23 I do have played with scala. 00:43:20 But I think it has too many syntactic constructs. 00:44:29 Fair enough. 00:45:46 khisanth_ [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-0-92.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:46:10 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-26-146.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:46:31 -!- khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 00:47:54 So what do you think of it? 00:49:40 I also think that scheme's lambda's are a little verbose sometimes. 00:51:02 There are ways to make lambdas look shorter if you're willing to use internal defines. 00:52:30 (map (lambda x (* x x)) '(1 2 3)) 00:53:02 vs map(x # x * x, [1, 2, 3]) 00:53:20 It's a personal taste thing, but I'm too attached to S-expressions to let them go. 00:53:25 map(x # x * x, [1, 2, 3]) 00:53:36 ("vs" was making it look longer) 00:53:47 not sure about scheme, but in CL you could easily do something like: (map ($ (* $0 $0)) '(1 2 3)) 00:54:15 xale: There's cut, but you can't duplicate arguments with that. 00:54:37 e.g., (cut * <> <>) takes two arguments; it doesn't take one argument and duplicate it. 00:55:34 xale, I saw something like that in clojure (another functional lisp variant) 00:56:02 But I prefer my own invented lambda-syntax. 00:56:55 But what do you think of my languages's syntax so far, except that it doesn't use s-expressions? 00:57:41 wait, arc has a syntax for that. 00:58:06 [(* _ _)] , iirc 00:58:57 vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.39.187.245] has joined #scheme 00:59:36 oh, no 00:59:43 its [* _ _] 00:59:45 :D 01:02:19 Somelauw:  01:02:43 That's just another way to write cut. 01:03:22 But it doesn't allow using a variable twice or nesting lambdas. 01:06:11 Not true. 01:06:21 [* _ _] == (lambda (x) (* x x)) 01:06:32 yeah. 01:06:34 [] functions in Arc are always unary; the argument is called _. 01:06:58 although I find (lambda (x) (* x x)) prettier :D 01:07:03 zmv: :-) 01:07:50 it might not be as practical, but it's prettier imho 01:07:51 though if you use lambdas for everything like the pasted example, it is going to be annoying. 01:09:52 that paste looks like some weird mix of haskell and io and java. 01:11:33 Somelauw: you'd be better off just going with haskell/scala 01:13:18 s/scala/clojure/ 01:13:57 No, Scala. :-P 01:14:15 Remember, Somelauw was getting away from S-expressions. 01:14:19 s/clojure/scala/ 01:14:24 DT``: Jinx! 01:14:42 nah, scala is ugly. 01:14:42 jinx? 01:14:43 not only ugly. 01:14:47 it's *fugly* 01:14:58 DT``: You never played jinx as a kid? 01:15:01 zmv, at least It's Not Java®. 01:15:19 cky, maybe, no, I don't even know what is it. 01:15:22 DT``: lolololol 01:16:00 DT``: So, if two people say the same thing at once, then the first person to say jinx will jinx the other person, and they can't say anything. Or something like that. 01:16:08 So how does Arc handle multiple parameters? Currying or tupling? 01:16:17 Somelauw: Using conventional lambdas. 01:16:17 Somelauw: idk 01:16:27 cky, oh, yeah, that. 01:16:34 s/.*// 01:17:09 Somelauw, usually Schemers write ``lambda'' as . It's usually short enough. 01:17:21 s/Schemers/Racketeers/ 01:17:25 How to type l? 01:17:30  01:17:37 Does that actually compile? 01:17:43 Somelauw: In Racket, yes. 01:17:43 Somelauw: yeah 01:17:54 rudybot, (( (x) (+ x 2)) 3) 01:17:55 DT``: your sandbox is ready 01:17:55 DT``: ; Value: 5 01:17:58 depends. 01:18:02 In DrRacket you have to type C-\ 01:18:10 Did you remap your keyboard to type \l? 01:18:41 I did, but just like zmv said, your editor can help. 01:18:42 in urxvt you have to type hold Control and Shift and type 3bb 01:18:57   see? 01:19:12 My editor is vim. What it the damn shortcut? 01:19:22 ! 01:19:26 # 01:19:28 I don't know. 01:19:42 It's `:q! RET emacs RET'. 01:19:45 Somelauw: well, if you use it inside urxvt, you can do what I told you. 01:19:52 Riastradh: hahalol 01:20:23 urxvt? 01:20:24 Riastradh: and in emacs its `C-x C-c vim RET` 01:20:38 Somelauw: rxvt-unicode 01:20:46 My Emacs says `C-x C-c is undefined' when I type that, zmv. 01:20:52 Riastradh, I did it but it just opened emacs, what to do now? 01:20:59 lolol 01:21:06 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-zuzbfyxoorpdbmjm] has joined #scheme 01:21:17 Why do I have to open emacs? I don't feel like playing tetris another time. I want to program. 01:21:25 Riastradh: what a shitty emacs you have, huh? you don't even have the most important command! 01:21:38 C-c C-c 01:21:46 Somelauw: because Riastradh is a crazy emacsite :P 01:21:46 What's with all this anti-Emacs trolling? 01:21:55 viper? 01:22:04 #python? 01:22:19 vimpulse to the rescue!!! 01:22:38 :D 01:22:46 Challenge to the vimmers. Port Paredit to vim, and maybe you'll get somewhere. 01:23:10 Note: vi is my normal editor. So don't even say I'm pro-Emacs or anything. 01:23:15 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:23:28 However, Paredit really is indispensible for Scheme coding. 01:23:38 *zmv* whistles and goes away :P 01:23:46 I've gotta go now, really. 01:23:49 :-P 01:24:11 I've gotta wake up early tomorrow :| 01:24:41 Me too, actually 01:24:45 I will go too. 01:24:48 -!- Somelauw [~laurent@unaffiliated/somelauw] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:25:16 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 01:27:53 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:02 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934ad95.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:31:27 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:24 -!- ASau` [~user@93-80-218-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:04 ASau` [~user@93-80-218-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 01:36:45 christopher [~christoph@c-98-201-58-105.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:44:15 cky: re "design a type system that exceeds what they provide" -- what's missing? 01:48:47 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:25 -!- evhan [~evhan@dyn-194-189.vpn.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:01 eli: Nothing, in my view. 02:00:21 eli: But if Somelauw wants to do their own thing, then at least it shouldn't be "lesser" than what's already there. 02:04:02 evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:05:28 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-192.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:07:11 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 02:18:06 -!- resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:19:36 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:43 cky: I was just curious whether you had something concrete. (I have a wishlist for TR, but it's pretty short.) 02:20:22 Also, it's questionable to encourage people to improve on that, you need to be very much on top of your type theory material. 02:20:54 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 02:22:55 -!- hogger [hogger@c-75-72-149-162.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:42:41 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-19.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:55:05 -!- christopher [~christoph@c-98-201-58-105.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:58:36 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:02:05 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:06:27 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:11:39 christopher [~christoph@c-98-201-58-105.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:12:38 -!- LN^^ is now known as LN^off 03:25:50 nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:26:30 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:32:31 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:09:17 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 04:10:31 resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 04:12:18 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has joined #scheme 04:28:54 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:37:37 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:37:37 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:37:37 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 04:45:30 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 04:48:51 -!- TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:09 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:11:43 -!- vilsonvieira [~vilson@187.39.187.245] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 05:18:54 -!- nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:59 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38:20 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:42 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 05:52:56 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:58:36 -!- rageous [~Adium@user-38q461p.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:59:46 rageous [~Adium@user-38q461p.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 06:19:28 -!- rageous [~Adium@user-38q461p.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:26:23 rageous [~Adium@user-38q461p.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 06:27:09 -!- rageous [~Adium@user-38q461p.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:26 rageous [~Adium@user-38q461p.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 06:29:27 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 06:44:04 -!- christopher [~christoph@c-98-201-58-105.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:45:14 saccade [~jkraemer@216.239.45.130] has joined #scheme 06:46:13 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:07:03 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 07:13:39 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:15:07 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 07:21:10 elon [~elon@D97B19AC.cm-3-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #scheme 07:23:31 I'm reading SICP, and installed umb-scheme from my os package managment. But, when I try a 'cond', or even an example of 'cond' that's in the book, I get the error "Error: `cond' is undefined.". Is that because umb-scheme doesn't support cond? 07:27:05 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:29:22 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 07:29:54 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:35:11 Perhaps. umb-scheme is not a gentoo package, so I couldn't say. 07:35:25 elon: try mit-scheme or racket. 07:36:03 elon: cond is in r5rs. Perhaps umb-scheme is not a r5rs? 07:40:39 elon: yeah umb-scheme is r4rs 07:40:56 elon: perhaps try a more up-to-date implementation? :P 07:42:42 -!- saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@adsl-75-60-31-253.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 07:50:23 -!- elon [~elon@D97B19AC.cm-3-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:12 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:00:56 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 08:04:12 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 08:04:18 choas [~lars@p5792C17B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:08:12 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:13:35 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:22:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 08:23:11 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:23:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:52 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 08:26:37 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 08:31:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 08:31:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:38 masm [~masm@2.80.197.181] has joined #scheme 08:36:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 08:36:29 femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 08:38:31 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:39:26 -!- resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:41:14 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 08:42:11 stis [~AndChat@host-90-239-54-95.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 08:44:16 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:45:06 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 08:47:37 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:50:32 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 08:59:52 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:59:54 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 09:07:14 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:17:43 -!- saccade [~jkraemer@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:24:37 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:31:43 -!- xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-zuzbfyxoorpdbmjm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:43 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:03 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:31 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 09:54:49 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-37-76.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:05:11 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 10:06:59 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-67-60.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 10:07:04 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09:15 leo2007 [~leo@114.249.16.204] has joined #scheme 10:10:05 Is there a scheme implementation that is dominantly more popular than the rest? 10:11:02 In my household, yes. :-P 10:15:21 femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 10:18:37 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:25:31 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:30:52 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35:21 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD113151162160.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:36:16 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 10:36:29 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:51:18 leo2007: racket wants to be all encompassing. 10:51:38 But as to popular, I guess it's as popular as a racket. 10:51:47 XD 10:51:58 pjb: yeah, I am thinking of just use guile. 10:52:33 Something like this: http://www.informatimago.com/images/doctor-vs-racketeer.jpg 10:52:39 leo2007: for emacs support, both guile and racket have geiser 10:52:57 leo2007: depends on what you want to do. 10:53:08 learn scheme 10:53:17 Then I'd advise racket. 10:53:37 what's wrong with guile? 10:54:02 What's good with DrScheme? 10:55:27 pjb: leo2007 is an emacs guy 10:55:41 so DrRacket is less of a salespitch 10:57:25 Well racketers have a salespitch too. 10:58:24 You seen in this barrio, you need some protection. We will protect you, for a price. No, there's no competition. See your neighbor didn't want any protection, and look what happened to him. 10:58:45 nonon, that is racketeers 10:59:24 leo2007: So if I'm advising DrRacket, it's not entirely from my free will. If it was only me, I'd advise DrScheme. But I don't have a choice. 11:00:26 leo2007: its not such a big commitment to try both. What book do you plan on following? 11:00:46 sicp and seasoned schemer, two books I bought. 11:02:06 so any serious implementation should be fine. MIT scheme is another one that is often used by people following sicp, istr there is some support package. 11:02:40 leo2007: have you used SLIME / Common-Lisp? 11:02:46 does guile count as serious implementation? 11:02:50 sure 11:02:53 bremner: common lisp. 11:03:31 so if you are used to SLIME (CL mode for emacs), then I highly recommend geiser. 11:03:46 which only supports guile and racket atm 11:03:57 bremner: yeah, I have it installed already. 11:04:31 racket's documentation seems much better than guile's. 11:05:33 What an excellent opportunity to contribute to a free software project then. ;-) 11:06:02 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-21-48.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:06:12 fds: not while learning 11:06:17 But seriously, what's wrong with the Guile docs? I'd love to improve them one day, but I still haven't finished reading them yet. :-P 11:06:57 Well, that depends, while learning can be a good time to notice what isn't explained clearly for people who don't come from a position of prior knowledge 11:07:12 fds: I looked at this page http://docs.racket-lang.org/ and was impressed. 11:08:26 fds: OK, I'll be taking notes and maybe ask questions on the mailing list. 11:08:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-115-93.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 11:09:12 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 11:09:28 That sounds good. There's also #guile if you're not sure something is worthy of the mailing list or if you want to clarify the issue before sending the mail, &c. :-) 11:09:38 (But, I've just noticed that you're there already.) 11:09:50 yeah 11:10:25 I have been meaning to learn scheme and put it off till now. 11:14:06 tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.4] has joined #scheme 11:16:49 Somelauw [~laurent@unaffiliated/somelauw] has joined #scheme 11:22:45 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:30:08 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 11:33:02 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 11:36:11 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-208.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:43:24 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:46:10 resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 11:48:29 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:50:02 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:50:05 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:50:40 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:53:32 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 12:02:56 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 12:17:59 -!- stis [~AndChat@host-90-239-54-95.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:18:11 -!- Somelauw [~laurent@unaffiliated/somelauw] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:18:16 stis [~AndChat@host-90-239-54-95.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #scheme 12:27:01 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:27:43 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:29:05 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:49 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:29 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 12:39:47 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 12:47:49 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:49:27 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 12:56:03 visof [~visof@41.34.216.2] has joined #scheme 12:57:56 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 12:58:34 hello 12:59:04 what will i get after reading SICP ? 12:59:56 A gold star? 13:00:28 fds, i mean about experience , what will SICP learn me? 13:02:37 You can look at the contents to see what's covered in the book. But my feeling is that your question is too vague to have a meaningful answer. 13:02:57 SICP isn't really that magical, it's just a good book 13:03:35 If you enjoy reading good books about computation, read SICP; if you don't, don't. It probably won't transform your life either way. 13:04:40 Of course, there are others who surely disagree with me. :-) 13:09:20 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:07 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:13:24 sebastia1 [~sebastian@541AB7C3.cm-5-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #scheme 13:15:25 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:21:20 which scheme implementation is well tested on OSX? 13:22:26 racket seems to put some effort into it. (I'm not pimping racket, its just all I know about) 13:23:05 bremner: thanks. guile currently has problems building. 13:23:26 well, OS/X is not GNU 13:26:22 racket seems to have a good reputation too. 13:26:30 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/459323/what-is-the-best-scheme-or-lisp-implementation-for-os-x 13:26:30 http://tinyurl.com/3glh7tv 13:27:35 dzhus [~sphinx@93-80-213-217.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 13:28:00 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.249.16.204] has quit [Quit: leaves the cafe] 13:34:54 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 13:45:20 -!- mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:50:29 xwl [~user@222.130.117.81] has joined #scheme 13:58:50 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-19.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:00:09 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 14:04:10 -!- tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.4] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 14:04:42 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 14:06:17 -!- sebastia1 [~sebastian@541AB7C3.cm-5-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #scheme 14:11:06 -!- xwl [~user@222.130.117.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:44 jrtayloriv [~jrtaylori@207-118-99-199.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 14:19:55 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:54 -!- rageous [~Adium@user-38q461p.cable.mindspring.com] has left #scheme 14:26:39 leo2007 [~leo@th041156.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #scheme 14:29:02 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:33:04 -!- visof [~visof@41.34.216.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:22 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 14:35:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:37:00 hohoho [~hohoho@i114-182-69-107.s04.a014.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #scheme 14:38:40 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 14:38:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:39:21 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 14:42:25 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:46:17 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 14:51:36 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 14:53:34 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:01:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:03:19 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 15:05:42 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 15:18:21 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 15:18:28 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:20:49 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable060.239-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:35:32 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 15:37:04 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:48:56 jesusito [~user@156.pool85-49-244.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 15:49:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041156.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 15:49:46 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:50:21 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:50:26 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:50:42 leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has joined #scheme 15:51:09 hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:52:45 -!- hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw592034.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 15:53:34 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@i114-182-69-107.s04.a014.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:54:31 jesusito` [~user@127.pool85-49-28.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 15:54:46 -!- jesusito [~user@156.pool85-49-244.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:58:08 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:34 Qauzzix [jakob@binary.is] has joined #scheme 16:01:29 Greetings. This is my first day of scheme and I have a newb question. How do I call an anonymous lambda function recursivly ? 16:02:33 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:03:05 Heh, I'm not sure if that's really a newb question, but I think the answer you're looking for is the ``Y combinator'' 16:03:32 I don't know though.. 16:03:36 I'm not an expert 16:03:59 Not sure what that is, going to check it out. 16:04:00 Basically, it isn't trivial 16:04:22 I would have thought it would be trivial. 16:06:20 Well, there are many trivial forms of recursion or iteration, for any practical purpose. 16:07:36 I am not used to thinking in recursion since I have only learned imperative languages until this point. 16:07:50 -!- jesusito` [~user@127.pool85-49-28.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:53 Thats a skill that needs to be trained, and thats what I am doing :) 16:08:16 Qauzzix: If it's truly anonymous, it has no name. Without a name, how would you refer to it? 16:08:59 I recommend reading `The Little Schemer'. :-) 16:09:16 yes, TLS is great and even covers the Y combinator 16:13:24 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:14:36 sjamaan: There could be a reserved name for it, there are ways to implement a thing like that thou in theory you cant, thats why I ask. 16:15:07 Qauzzix: Scheme doesn't have reserved names :) 16:15:19 sjamaan: As I said, this is my first day of scheme :) 16:16:31 Anyway, the Y combinator is a trick that requires you to change your procedure a bit. It will pass your procedure to itself, which then returns a new procedure that performs the calculation given its input 16:17:14 So effectively it's bound to a name (but only internally to the procedure) by argument passing 16:19:25 Intresting solution. Thanks. 16:19:37 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:20:23 Think I will play alittle more with the basics before I start thinking about this :) 16:20:41 Qauzzix: it is probably easier to use a named procedure 16:20:54 The Little Schemer is a great book to learn how to think in recursion 16:23:26 C-Keen: Yebb, it is indeed, it was more of a curiosity then anything else. 16:24:14 But I KNOW this is a newb question. When I have defined a function by combining functions, how do I actually call it? 16:24:29 Or rather, how do I invoke a procedure that is returned. 16:24:51 Qauzzix: the question is a valid and good one 16:26:58 Is using eval the only way, found a way to use that. Not sure if thats the right way to do it. 16:27:15 No, you can just put it in a `function position' 16:27:35 You shouldn't be using eval 16:28:04 rudybot: ((lambda (x) (lambda () (+ 1 x))) 3) 16:28:04 fds: your sandbox is ready 16:28:04 fds: ; Value: # 16:28:08 Oops 16:28:17 rudybot: (((lambda (x) (lambda () (+ 1 x))) 3)) 16:28:17 fds: ; Value: 4 16:29:23 Brackets are very important in Scheme, they control evaluation. :-) 16:29:54 I suppose they control evaluation in every language, but, moreso in Scheme. They aren't just for grouping 16:30:29 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:33:37 christopher [~christoph@c-98-201-58-105.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:34:38 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:37:51 Is there a simpler way then using map to apply a lambda to a list? 16:38:14 What's not simple about that? 16:38:30 TippenEin [~chatzilla@97.65.218.3] has joined #scheme 16:38:36 map is the simplest way of doing what map does. Which is apply a procedure to every element of a list. 16:38:59 Obviously you can apply a procedure to a whole list by just doing (proc lst) 16:39:01 :-P 16:39:03 But what if I only want to apply an atom to an lambda? 16:39:35 an lambda? 16:39:41 a lambda 16:39:42 like an hero? 16:39:59 rudybot: ((lambda (x) (+ 1 x)) 2) 16:39:59 fds: ; Value: 3 16:40:04 Like that? 16:40:27 rudybot: ((lambda (x) x) '(a list of atoms)) 16:40:27 fds: ; Value: (a list of atoms) 16:40:38 That applies a lambda expression to a list. :-) 16:40:49 Sorry, I kinda ignored all the lines talking to rustybot. Stupid me. 16:41:17 Heh, rustybot. But yes, you should pay attention to them too. :-D 16:41:34 I think that a line of code is worth a thousand words, or something like that. 16:41:49 Agreed. 16:42:18 I ignored them because I just thought you were talking to another person, without even giving it a single thought 16:42:54 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:42:54 An easy mistake to make, but you'll soon get used to it. rudybot is one of the most useful members of the channel. :-) 16:43:08 rudybot: Aren't you? 16:43:08 fds: I suppose they control evaluation in every language, but, moreso in Scheme. They aren't just for grouping 16:43:15 Hey, I just said that! 16:48:10 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:57:03 -!- DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:01 Ok, I am still just playing around with the basics. Starting with simple statements and complicating them. But I cant understand why this dosn't work -> http://pastebin.com/FBUKzhtK 16:59:16 Because your map statement doesn't return a procedure? 16:59:38 Just a guess 17:01:17 I always thought you would get a procedure if it wasn't fully eval-ed 17:02:04 "Always" hehe, just started playing with this. 17:03:18 Hm, I'm not really sure what you mean by `fully'. But, in your example you should remove one set of brackets from around your map statement, because otherwise you're trying to apply a list of numbers as a function 17:04:40 lol, thanks. That worked. 17:04:55 I think most of my problems so far are related to where to place the brackets. 17:06:05 It's easy: A set of parens represent a procedure call, unless you're in a special form 17:06:09 Yeah, Lisps are very different from other programming languages in that respect, but don't listen to the `Lots of Insignificant Silly Parentheses' people; brackets are key to the way Lisp statements work, you can't just add them or remove them willy-nilly. :-) 17:06:15 (x y) -> apply procedure x to argument y 17:06:23 But, it is easy, like sjamaan said. 17:06:42 ((x y)) -> apply procedure returned by applying x to y, with no arguments 17:06:56 If (x y) returns something else than a procedure, that's an error 17:07:43 Each set of parens has a meaning. Like fds said, adding or removing parens changes the meaning of the code 17:07:48 It's probibly very easy once you get a feeling for it and are able to read to code to some extant. I don't have thous skills yet. 17:08:49 This is very alien to me, but that also makes it very fun. 17:10:05 My old rule of thumb to add brackets everywhere for clarity dosn't seem work so well in Scheme. 17:10:18 It's unneccessary in Scheme 17:10:33 Yeah, it'll take a little while to get used to it, but it really is a simple system once you do 17:10:35 You only need to add brackets for clarity when you have hard-to-remember precedence rules 17:10:45 Scheme has no precedence rules because there are no infix operators :) 17:11:56 To make things more readable, it's generally enough to bind intermediate results to variables with well-chosen names 17:19:21 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 17:19:21 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 17:19:21 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 17:22:26 tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.69.11] has joined #scheme 17:23:27 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:42:30 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:51 rafinha69 [~rafinha69@bl17-0-224.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 17:51:53 hello 17:52:20 do you still think that SICP is a good book to improve programming skills? 17:56:00 no, I've recanted 17:57:38 I imagine that some people never thought it was a good book. :-P 17:58:11 and others had no opinion 17:58:47 The vast majority. 17:59:21 well, I guess I meant, others in this channel. 17:59:41 Ah. :-) 18:00:17 so what do you guys said about SICP? 18:00:25 strong and weak parts 18:00:43 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:36 I think it's a good book, but you should know something about programming before you start reading it and be willing to consult other sources of information about Scheme while reading it. (If you plan on using it to learn Scheme.) 18:02:17 bremner: stalker 18:02:34 ... and yet you're not even in my M-x erc-rank-stalkers list ... crayz 18:03:03 offby1: so, uh, you cultivate more serious stalkers than me? 18:03:31 I don't know any of them! They're all githubbers 18:03:33 fds, i know python but i dont have a strong programming knolodge 18:03:34 *offby1* sobs 18:04:23 rafinha69: I don't know if it is better or worse, but another book you could look at is "How to Design Programs" 18:04:54 rafinha69: Well, I'm not an expert either. :-) But, I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't consider it a bible that will teach you programming, you should be willing to look in other places at the same time as reading it. 18:05:07 When I started to read it, I had that opinion, but it was a stupid one. :-) 18:05:22 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 18:06:17 SICP is hard to read? Uses a lot of math? 18:06:31 rafinha69: not at all. It's a mind openeer. 18:06:34 s/ee/e 18:06:35 Not really, in my opinion. 18:07:21 which question are you guys answering? 18:07:37 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has joined #scheme 18:07:55 Both of them. 18:08:13 humm 18:08:35 which interpreter you guys recommend ? 18:09:04 Are there scheme interpreters? I know only compilers. 18:09:41 As a student, try DrRacket. 18:10:39 rafinha69: yeah, download DrRacket, and read its introductory documentation. It's pretty good. 18:11:23 most scheme systems come with an interpreter 18:11:45 racket, chicken, guile, ... 18:14:48 ok thanks 18:15:06 C-Keen: Really? Alsmost no Common Lisp implementation has an interpreter. 18:15:18 o_O 18:16:41 -!- rafinha69 [~rafinha69@bl17-0-224.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:17:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@2402:f000:5:2901:225:4bff:fea9:b9e4] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:19:14 pjb: in that regard CL is more like smalltalk, an image based system. 18:19:30 libecl ? 18:19:33 :-) 18:19:56 That's right, but the CL specification doesn't preclude implementation of batch compilers. 18:20:26 And all the implementations can be used as one, from the command line. 18:21:38 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 18:25:43 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:03 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 18:34:54 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C6F7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:35:48 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 18:44:46 -!- jrtayloriv [~jrtaylori@207-118-99-199.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:48:04 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:03 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C6F7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:03 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:53:36 -!- resub [~resub@CPE-58-175-148-62.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56:59 jrtayloriv [~jrtaylori@207-118-121-31.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #scheme 18:58:57 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:59:18 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 18:59:28 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:01:23 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:24 copumpki_ [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 19:02:18 -!- copumpki_ is now known as copumpkin 19:02:18 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 19:02:18 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 19:04:54 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 19:12:24 saiko-chriskun [~chris-kun@adsl-75-60-31-253.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:14:57 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:22:58 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-70.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:23:43 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.69.11] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:24:30 -!- djcb` [~user@a88-114-89-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:26:47 copumpki_ [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 19:26:54 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:28:06 -!- TippenEin [~chatzilla@97.65.218.3] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 19:31:30 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:35:24 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:37:49 -!- copumpki_ is now known as copumpkin 19:37:50 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 19:37:50 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 19:38:15 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:58:42 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:18 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 19:59:58 does anyone here know the price of a chez scheme license? I don't know what's with proprietary software that some think it's fashionable to not disclose the price on the website... 20:00:12 if you gots to ask, you can't afford it 20:01:00 it's more that I can't find it than that I can't afford it 20:01:48 I found one .txt document buried in the google results for '"chez scheme" price' that says it's $1500 for one machine 20:01:58 rien: how about asking? 20:02:01 that's when it was R3Rs though 20:02:56 I guess I'll have to ask, yeah. 20:03:23 I thought someone here might have already asked and therefore know the price 20:03:27 asking is not bad it is communicating :) 20:03:36 rien: I understand your reasoning 20:03:49 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:03:56 rien: It's still about 1k, or a little more. 20:04:07 thanks, Eli :) 20:04:25 (For some limited one-machine or whatever's popular in commercial things.) 20:05:05 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:05:06 right, that's what I imagine 20:06:41 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:07:15 what awesomeness do you get for your kilobucks? 20:07:47 bremner: I didn't find Chez Scheme's chezpage that convincing in that regard, either. 20:09:10 it's supposed to be fast, isn't it? 20:11:13 that's what I'm reading about now on a programmers.stackexchange thread named"scheme-vs-common-lisp-war-stories" 20:13:46 bremner: Yes, it's supposed to be very fast. 20:14:17 well, that is no doubt valuable to some people. fair enough. 20:14:17 rien: You should ignore that particular silliness as yet another useless stackexchange fart... 20:15:02 bremner: I think that it's safe to assume that it used to be much faster, and now it's just faster. 20:15:18 eli: it looks like a good thread. I'm not fluent on the million-piece jigsaw puzzle that SE turned into so I've no idea about the usual quality of the discussions 20:15:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:01 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:12 rien: IME, such subjective questions never lead to any meaningful results there. 20:16:40 They're really things that should be discussed freely, and the SE format is too restrictive to make it a productive discussion. 20:17:09 IOW, it works well for well defined questions, but completely fails on the fuzzy opinion-oriented ones. 20:17:13 so those are discussions that lend themselves more to the forum format rather than the stiff SE format, you say? 20:17:24 I see. 20:18:02 that's why most of the fuzzy questions are made 'community-wiki', which means "you kids can play but it doesn't count for points" 20:18:08 Yeah, except that I'd use "newsgroup" or "mailing list" for "forum". 20:18:36 (Newsgroups are actually too open, so these things deteriorate fast into the other edge of the spectrum -- flames.) 20:18:49 I find email-oriented discussions to be confusing, and prefer the web-forum based format :) 20:19:08 The community wiki think is not really helping, since the format is still the same. 20:19:29 right, it doesn't change the format 20:28:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-36.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 20:28:05 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-4a5a6ee5.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:34 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-4a5a6ee5.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 20:29:32 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:54 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-110-106.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 20:40:28 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:45:40 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] 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