00:00:07 MapMan [mapman@dynamic-78-8-226-30.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #scheme 00:00:33 maybe, but it was a pain in the ass haha, I was just writing some sample cases and didn't get any way of knowing when to double and when to add 1 00:00:41 starting from 1 00:02:12 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:02:33 -!- muks [~muks@misha.banu.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:03:27 muks [~muks@misha.banu.com] has joined #scheme 00:03:32 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:30 Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #scheme 00:07:35 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 00:08:24 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:40 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:14:11 racket's trace is GREAT =) 00:15:20 I've never used Racket's, but trace is great. :-) 00:15:39 oh, but it doesn't trace inner functions calls :( 00:17:18 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:29 tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has joined #scheme 00:18:13 There are probably ways to configure it. I don't really know much about this stuff, but I've flicked throught that section of the Guile manual and seen all kinds of options 00:19:26 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:21:30 fds: Special for you: http://codereview.stackexchange.com/q/1221/216 00:23:13 alcuadrado: "expansion passing style" is an easy way to write a tracer that does just what you want - the paper is widely available on the net 00:24:21 let me check that :) 00:25:05 pdlogan: do you mean continuation passing style or do I not know about something? :) 00:26:06 rien: nope - "expansion passing style" - kind of the same idea, but at "macro expansion time" - you pass (and potentially augment) the "expanders" that you want to apply to your forms. 00:26:27 pdlogan: awesome - I'll read up on that :) 00:30:27 cky: :-o Are you referring to me being stupid about reversing numbers back when I first met you? :-P (I've got a memory like a sieve.) 00:30:30 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.144.171.111] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 00:31:27 But, I think that's what happened. I remember feeling very humiliated. But I got it right in the end! 00:36:00 fds: No, I wasn't referring to that, actually. 00:36:11 fds: If such a thing happened, I didn't remember it, for sure. 00:36:50 fds: You were just talking about simple solutions earlier, so I thought I'd link you something I wrote that might be classified as that. ;-) 00:37:46 is LinearML interesting: ? 00:38:17 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-85-15.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:38:21 cky: Oh, well, as I remember it, someone came in here asking for help with a homework problem very similar to that one. And I suggested strng operations and Riastradh told me how stupid I was for suggesting such a thing. I quickly came up with a solution like yours there and PMed it to you, so as to not spoil the guy's homework, but still prove that I wasn't an idiot. ;-) 00:38:42 Hahahaha, awww.... 00:38:46 cky: But, if that's not what you meant then I guess I can forget it again! 00:38:51 Hehehehehe. 00:41:49 transforming the number into a string to reverse it is only stupid if you're trying to solve it for the sake of it (e.g. homework). 00:43:00 masm [~masm@bl16-168-147.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 00:43:01 I'm not sure if it was actually reversing it. But it involved separating out the digits. 00:43:27 I see 00:47:48 klutometis: that's an interesting link 00:48:02 languages that don't need garbage collectors are intriguing 00:48:58 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@75-175-5-194.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 00:49:11 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-103-147.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:51:27 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:52:12 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:56:21 C for example? 00:56:57 C doesn't need a garbage collector? 00:57:11 C needs a garbage collector. Trouble is, there's not enough information at run-time for a program to do it. YOU need to be the garbage collector when you write the program! 00:58:01 no 00:58:08 C just needs a capable programmer who understands C 00:58:42 Riastradh: do you know if those languages that don't need a GC (be it because they use linear logic or similar devices) are too constraining for the programmer? I know they need a "clone" or "dupe" function if you need to use a variable twice, but what else? 00:58:59 I haven't found much info on them when I was looking out of curiosity 00:59:18 Riastradh++ 00:59:44 When Peter Seibel interviewed Ken Thompson, he said: 01:00:05 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:14 (lemme find here in the book) 01:00:39 here 01:01:46 Seibel: "(...) What about garbage collection? (...) As Dennis Ritchie once said, C is actively hostile to garbage collection. (...) Is it a technology that deserves to finally be in mainstream use?" 01:02:34 there's not enough information at runtime for a program to do it? wouldn't that make it impossible to have something like the Boehm GC? 01:03:07 Thompson: "I don't know. I'm schizophrenic on the subject. If you're writing (...) something that's used by lots and lots of people, I think garbage collection is a mistake, almost. It's a cheat for you when you can do it by hand and do it better - much better." 01:03:08 The Boehm GC heuristically approximates garbage collection. 01:03:43 It is a conservative garbage collector; in other words, a bug. 01:04:00 I didn't know that. so it's really a limitation in the language C that doesn't allow for GC? interesting 01:04:04 and he continues: "But if you're writing a hack program to do a job, get an answer and then throw the program away, it's beautiful." 01:04:27 that's it. 01:05:04 so he called GCs a cheat? wow. that's a whole field of computer science and a lot of PhDs gotten from a "cheat" subject :) 01:06:09 hahaha 01:07:01 if he were here and he said "GCs are a cheat" many would consider him a troll, and rightly so. 01:10:18 GCs ARE A CHEAT, BRO 01:10:19 :P 01:10:31 rofl 01:10:40 :) 01:11:26 :) 01:11:49 U BUNCH OF CHEATERS :P 01:12:28 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.66.112] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:12:43 lol 01:12:50 why u mad bro? 01:13:01 he's impersonating Ken Thompson 01:16:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-243.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:19:52 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:05 rageous [burli024@cs1260-15.cselabs.umn.edu] has joined #scheme 01:29:37 blueadept2 [~blueadept@cpe-24-160-96-254.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:29:41 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.173.210] has joined #scheme 01:31:25 so guys, this is turning into a head-twister 01:32:57 I'm trying to make a priority queue, so I need to add the element to an existing list 01:33:11 I'm trying to do it recursively, but that's harder than I thought 01:36:41 I pretty much say (define (enqueue node Q) ( (cond ((null? Q) ) ((higher-priority? node (car Q)) ) (else (enqueue node (cdr Q)))) 01:36:46 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37:05 where the is, I've tried cons, to add recursively until I have the full, proper list 01:38:37 I'm also open to doing it a different way :p 01:38:44 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 01:38:49 dammit, computer locked up :( 01:39:54 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 01:42:32 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:49:06 sth0KK [~Administr@125.71.39.215] has joined #scheme 01:50:46 ysph [~user@adsl-89-38-168.mgm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 01:54:33 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:59:22 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:01:13 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-uzitkxwxfqqpzqmw] has joined #scheme 02:08:44 -!- alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host89.190-139-17.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:09:51 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:12:21 '!' is generally read as "bang", i take it; what about '?': "p"? 02:13:01 also, is it generally acceptable to read '%' as "grapes" (especially in renaming macros); or is "mod" preferable? 02:13:03 Yes, I think so. 02:13:33 (That's about `?' being `p'. No idea about the grapes. :-P) 02:13:48 heh; yeah, just came across that one myself. i kind of like it. 02:15:43 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:16:43 ou can read it as "query" 02:17:11 *foof* has never heard "grapes" 02:18:29 s/ou/or/ 02:18:41 actually it was s/ou/you/ :) 02:19:16 foof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent_sign#In_computers 02:20:27 still no one has any idea what software to use to draw contour diagrams on a linux system? 02:21:19 Harrold: something like this: ? 02:21:34 not sure what you mean; and i'm too lazy to scroll up. 02:21:38 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:21:56 klutometis: A contour environment diagram for scheme 02:22:27 alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host74.200-45-92.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 02:22:33 I'll try to look up a link 02:22:53 Harrold: are you talking representations of dyadic functions; or maybe topological maps? 02:26:24 rien: in general, though, isn't it nice to have a symbol -> monosyllable mapping? 02:27:00 klutometis: can I give you a link in a query? 02:27:52 klutometis: hold that thought. I have 2 good links about the nicknames of all characters 02:27:53 Harrold: have you looked at PLT Racket's PLoT library? 02:28:15 no I want to draw it myself 02:28:23 just not on paper :D 02:29:33 ckrailo [~ckrailo@utdpat242007.utdallas.edu] has joined #scheme 02:30:41 Harrold: here's a paper on PLT PLoT; page six has a 3d contour that looks to me like what you want: http://repository.readscheme.org/ftp/papers/sw2003/PLoTScheme.pdf 02:30:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:57 Harrold: sure 02:31:00 I found an example: well I found this example: http://sikaman.dyndns.org:8888/courses/3007/sophisticated-environments/More%20Environment%20Model%20Examples.pptx 02:31:00 http://tinyurl.com/4marlcc 02:32:05 OH, *that* kind of contour environment! 02:32:26 yes 02:32:28 hard to explain 02:32:40 you could have given the link to the section in SICP 02:32:51 openoffice is ont very userfriendly in drawing those 02:33:38 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:34:16 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@utdpat242007.utdallas.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 02:34:41 do you want to have the tool automatically lay out the nodes and edges of the graph structure, or do you want to do the layout manually yourself? 02:35:27 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:50 I want to do the layout myself 02:36:04 I just need some tools for being able to draw the environment and do the input 02:36:57 klutometis: I found one link but not the other: http://ascii-table.com/pronunciation-guide.php 02:37:02 I would probably still suggest starting with PLT Racket. See for example Matthew Flatt's examples from his paper on PLT Slideshow 02:37:10 Slideshow paper: http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/icfp04-ff.pdf 02:37:12 I use plt racket 02:37:18 for the programming part 02:38:36 Are you willing to describe your diagrams programmatically? Or was your plan to draw the diagrams with a mouse? 02:39:21 (If you're willing to do it programmatically, then the image support in PLT Racket should be quite capable, as illustrated by the graphics demo'ed in the icfp04-ff.pdf paper I linked above 02:39:27 with my mouse 02:40:12 finally figured it out 02:40:22 In that case, I would probably recommend using Dia 02:40:38 I looked in dia, I don't find support for Environment models 02:40:58 Why do you need support for them specifically? Just draw the boxes and arrows with the right labels? 02:41:20 hmm I need to put in the text in the fields 02:41:30 and seperate the variable names from the values 02:41:33 and and and :( 02:43:37 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-idsccqzfnwbrsfwx] has joined #scheme 02:43:38 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-idsccqzfnwbrsfwx] has quit [Changing host] 02:43:38 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 02:43:41 I guess I don't understand your use case. I'd say go with either Dia, or Xfig. Or bite the bullet and describe your diagrams with code in either Tikz/Pgf or PLT Racket. 02:44:23 xfig... have to check that out 02:45:05 this blog post: http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2007/09/28/sicp-section-32/ used Gliffy to draw such diagrams 02:45:13 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 02:45:47 will look at that link! 02:45:58 once my internet lets me! 02:46:33 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 02:47:49 -!- rageous [burli024@cs1260-15.cselabs.umn.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:50:02 oh, yeah; forgot about Xfig. it's actually pretty cool. 02:50:13 btw, do people generally prefer epsilon and lambda for the null string? 02:50:18 can I draw diagrams in Xfig or do I modify current X windows? 02:50:27 in scheme-dom, epsilon; i'd guess. 02:53:17 scheme-dom? 02:54:06 The realm of Scheme 02:54:20 ah 02:54:29 xfig looks weird 02:54:33 but I think it has what I need 02:54:39 good old X style :) 02:55:40 just how can I interrupt the poly draw style? 02:55:48 klutometis: I thought epsilon meant the smallest float? 02:56:06 got it 02:56:07 ha 02:59:19 No, rien. What you are thinking of is probably the machine epsilon, which is the distance between 1 and the smallest representable number larger than 1. In the IEEE 754 double format, this is 2^-52: 1 is represented by an exponent of zero (represented by some nonzero string of bits, because of the bias, but this is irrelevant) and a 52-bit significand zero (all bits zero), so the next representable number is 1 + 2^-52, represented by setting th 03:00:07 (See: `by setting th...' 03:00:12 Oops 03:00:19 ...represented by setting the lowest bit of the significand. 03:00:22 s/(See:// 03:00:39 Riastradh: yes. and what was he thinking? about using the character epsilon to represent "" ? 03:02:16 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:02:17 Oh, that's pretty common too. I don't think using lambda for that is as common. 03:03:21 -!- Intensity [w4jkYxZ10A@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:29 Riastradh: I never knew that. I find that kind of stuff interesting 03:05:26 I should learn my programming greeks 03:05:26 brb 03:07:25 wow 03:07:29 xfig is actually pretty nice 03:07:31 thanks! 03:08:36 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:01 yaay, now I've implemented BFS and UCS 03:09:03 only A* to go 03:10:28 -!- `Jaka [~derp@ucbvpn-208-217.VPN.Berkeley.EDU] has left #scheme 03:16:12 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 03:16:52 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:06 in scheme? 03:17:07 NEVER 03:17:09 lol 03:19:55 Can anyone help me with an exercise of the SICP? It's about normal and applicative evaluation: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-11.html#%_thm_1.20 03:26:25 Articate: you plan on writing games or what? 03:28:41 rien: I hope not! 03:36:10 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:39:40 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:20 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:28 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-168-147.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:43:39 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:44:02 I just read a very interesting paper on how GC and reference counting (or more precisely recursive freeing) are duals of one another. 03:44:51 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:46:32 In GC, you start with roots, which are cells whose reference count is known to be nonzero, and trace to find other cells whose reference count is thereby determined to be nonzero. 03:47:02 In recursive freeing, you start with anti-roots, which are cells whose reference count is known to be zero, and trace to find other cells whose reference count is thereby determined to be zero. 03:48:19 hmph 03:48:33 how do you identify the original anti-roots? 03:49:10 masm [~masm@bl16-168-147.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 03:49:26 You decrement an object's reference count. If it drops to zero, then it's an anti-root. 03:49:55 is that different from asking if the refcount is one? 03:51:26 -!- Harrold [~quassel@bas1-ottawa11-1176121997.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:51:52 So when you decrement a reference count to zero, you must find and the circular structures it refers. 03:51:55 offby1: the context is that you're dropping a reference to the object. So yes, it is different from asking if the refcount is one, because of the side-effect of decrement the ref-count regardless of its current value 03:52:14 Not really. If the reference count is not one, you need to decrement it anyway. Of course you're supposed to do this always and only when you're actually not going to use it any more. 03:54:46 It seems to me that the time and/or space complexity of decrementing correctly the references counts while identifying the circular structures might be "slightly" above those of a normal GC... 03:55:41 Typically tracing is done in batch and recursive freeing is done on the spot so you don't have to keep an explicit list of anti-roots, but that's an implementaiton detail. 03:56:19 jcowan: it's not recursive freeing that's the problem. It's recursive decrement of refcounts. 03:56:30 If jcowan is talking about the paper I'm thinking of, the real point was more something like: As you optimize a Tracing GC, it looks more and more like a ref-counting system, and as you optimize a ref-counting system, it looks more an more like a Tracing GC. 03:56:40 Yes, I was getting to that. 03:56:54 pjb: What's the difference between recursive freeing and recursive decrementing? 03:57:07 If you have an object refering to a circular list. When you decrement the refcount to zero, you must decrement the refcount of the head of the circular list. So far so good. But then the head of the circular lists refcount will be 1. So it won't be freed. 03:57:19 Oh, sure. They're not *perfectly* dual. 03:57:52 Or, you go on, and try to check that it's a circular list. And then the complexity is not bounded: you may have to walk all the allocated objects to determine that the data structure is still used somewhere. 03:57:55 So a recursive freeing system either needs a backup GC, or it needs a speculative freer, which is a GC seen from a different point of view. 03:58:16 So, it's a silly idea, as it has been know for ever. 03:58:27 What's a silly idea? 03:58:39 refcounts, and trying to make it equivalent to GC. 03:58:45 pnkfelix, what ever happened to regional garbage collection? I want a Scheme system with a garbage collector that runs fast and has bounded pause times! 03:59:07 There are real-time GC with no pause times. 03:59:18 pnkfelix, I heard that Adobe ate you; does that mean Flash will get this before Scheme? 03:59:42 pjb, `that runs fast'. 03:59:45 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:59:49 That's the subject of another paper I just read, about a GC that concurrently marks the Nth generation and sweeps the N+1th, all concurrently with the mutator. 04:00:04 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 04:00:17 http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mckinley/395Tmm/talks/May-4-gc-theory.pdf <-- unified theory paper 04:02:18 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.42.5135&rep=rep1&type=pdf <-- concurrent mark and sweep 04:02:19 http://tinyurl.com/4w7dp8j 04:02:43 Now that's bizarre, rudybot. Why give me a tinyurl for one but not the other? 04:03:28 length 04:03:31 75 I think 04:03:43 Ah, thanks. 04:04:22 Kiba [~user@adsl-176-43-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 04:04:25 hello 04:04:48 Hey ho, Kiba. 04:06:57 Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 04:07:06 I was wondering what's a good scheme compiler thingy 04:08:42 Depends on your definition of "good". Fast compile? Fast execute? Small footprint? Lots of available packages? 04:08:56 Which in turn depends on what you actually want to do. 04:09:04 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:09:17 oh, I just want something that's easy to understand 04:09:33 cat /dev/null > scheme-compiler.sh 04:09:38 chmod +x scheme-compiler.sh 04:11:22 Riastradh: Adobe did eat me, yes. But I finished my dissertation in parallel with my work there. Will and I hope to roll the regional GC into the next release of Larceny 04:12:49 Kiba, I'm also new to scheme, and racket seems really easy to use 04:13:04 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 04:13:08 Or rather, Will plans to make the Regional GC part of the next release, and I think Will's hope is that I will soon get around to doing the merge of my dev branch over into the trunk. 04:13:32 I like if interactive mode, which has readline support, which is really important of learning from errors and correct bad syntax 04:13:53 Kiba: Racket is super easy to use. Larceny's compiler is among the easiest I've seen to understand. Well, wait, I spent a couple years learning how to understand it ... 04:15:02 ok 04:16:07 Riastradh: as for whether Adobe gets Regional GC first Well, you see that pjb's comment above about how ref-counting is bad? Guess what the Actionscript VM uses in its memory manager ... 04:18:43 -!- alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host74.200-45-92.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:23:55 alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host15.186-125-69.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 04:24:33 Sorry if I repeat this, my connection was lost. Can anyone check if this is correct? It's really short: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120408 04:26:55 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-224-241-168.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:28:02 alcuadrado: don't your unit tests tell you if it's correct? 04:28:15 ah, I see 04:29:13 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-168-147.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:31:17 I want to know if the applications work like that 04:31:38 it's exercise 1.20 of SICP 04:32:37 yeah, I dunno 04:36:14 -!- tr3x_ [~tr3x@93-138-70-18.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:39:56 tr3x [~tr3x@93-141-3-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 04:41:00 anyone? 04:47:25 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:48:51 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:59:54 -!- blueadept2 [~blueadept@cpe-24-160-96-254.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:02:05 bharath_g [~bharath10@117.211.88.150] has joined #scheme 05:04:11 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:05:16 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:08:11 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:10:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:16:11 -!- alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host15.186-125-69.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:26:19 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:28:20 metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has joined #scheme 05:28:46 alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host113.190-138-76.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 05:32:22 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:32:23 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:46 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.66.173.210] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 05:37:40 -!- Kiba [~user@adsl-176-43-225.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:51:58 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:37 alcuadrado: I don't think that's right. 05:53:56 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 05:54:58 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 05:55:03 alcuadrado: For a start, you've got the GCD wrong. :-) 05:55:18 Mango-chan [Mango-chan@unaffiliated/mango-chan] has joined #scheme 05:55:34 I copy-pasted the definition from SICP :s 05:55:47 (Acknowledgment: This assignment is loosely based on an MIT homework assignment in their version of this course. But since this is Berkeley we've changed it to be politically correct; instead of killing each other, the characters go around eating gourmet food all the time.) 05:55:48 lol 05:56:02 The definition is right, the answer is wrong! 05:56:45 alcuadrado: Oh, I think you've calculatd the GCD of 260 and 40, not 206 and 40! 05:56:53 I see, it's 260, it's a typo 05:57:05 alcuadrado: In that case, your method could be right, just try it again with the right numbers. :-) 05:57:37 ok =) 06:05:00 here it is: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120409 :) 06:07:13 I'd say your applicative order is correct, but not your normal order 06:07:29 Look back at the solution you showed me before 06:08:46 Although, for your applicative order, I'd have written each `1 remainder application 06:09:35 I miss one application in the applicative one 06:09:38 ' on the line above 06:09:44 in the 2 line 06:10:13 Because when b is zero, you don't do any remainder operation. But you had to do one to move from (gcd 206 40) 06:10:22 to (gcd 40 6) 06:10:37 (Sory, my Internet connection is terrible at the moment) 06:10:45 np 06:11:09 You didn't miss any on the applicative order solution 06:11:22 tha's what I meant 06:11:38 I should have put them in between lines maybe 06:12:00 Yeah, something like that. 06:15:00 Now look again at the normal order solution. It might help to look back at your previous attempt and/or the definition in the book. 06:15:55 *fds* brushes his teeth. 06:16:41 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:18 I think a got it: http://paste.lisp.org/display/120410 06:19:42 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-103-147.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:20:02 I was taught that normal application always made less applications :s 06:21:59 No, it's usually the other way around. You should be careful to notice that `normal order' probably isn't what you consider normal, and it isn't what is normally used by Scheme systems! 06:22:32 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 06:24:06 And, about your solution, uhh. I think you're getting closer, but you're not quite right yet. I'm a bit tired and I'm not sure if I can think up a clever way to guide you. Heh. :-P 06:24:26 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:24:55 Perhaps you should think about how it knows when to return. That is, when (= b 0) returns true. 06:25:22 it has to reduce b 06:25:24 right? 06:26:13 But if b is already reduced, why would it call the next iteration with a not-reduced b? 06:28:30 ebzzry [~aoeu@203.213.202.186] has joined #scheme 06:28:54 Hi! Where can I find a portable destructuring-bind? 06:29:26 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:13 alcuadrado: Because that's how normal order evaluation works. The function call doesn't know that b has been calculated already by the equality test. 06:30:50 I think I'm explaining this right, heh. 06:30:54 so, I must pass the non-reduced form to both arguments, right? 06:31:49 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:32:03 Yes, although, it will only look at the a value once 06:32:11 When it tries to return it, at the end. 06:32:21 Other than that it won't be touched. 06:32:46 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-178-185-60.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:33:31 I see 06:34:39 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 06:34:48 It is a bit confusing. I recommend running through it on paper. That's what I did. 06:35:01 But, I'm going to bed now. Good luck! 06:38:01 christopher [~christoph@c-98-201-58-105.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:38:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:38:20 thanks for your help! :) 06:38:23 good night 06:40:39 christopher_ [~christoph@c-98-201-58-105.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:40:44 -!- christopher [~christoph@c-98-201-58-105.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:40:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 06:43:39 foof: If you're here, hope you're doing all right. 06:43:48 foof: Not sure if the quakes are affecting your neck of the woods. 06:44:04 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 06:44:41 Ditto to others here in Japan, such as myu2 and others I may not have noticed. 06:45:28 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@109.66.184.174] has joined #scheme 06:47:20 -!- xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-uzitkxwxfqqpzqmw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52:53 kauwgom [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:55:53 -!- _reid [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:05:17 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 07:10:33 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:04 -!- aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:14:08 aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #scheme 07:16:36 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-qhymctfnpkivvwcj] has joined #scheme 07:19:55 -!- christopher_ [~christoph@c-98-201-58-105.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:21:08 -!- aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 07:21:32 someprimetime [~someprime@c-76-127-80-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:22:09 aidalgol [aidan@2002:453d:f72::1337:3] has joined #scheme 07:28:07 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:30:17 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 07:34:19 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:46:37 damg [~damg@p5086E534.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:48:16 corvaleur [~corvaleur@62.225.111.242] has joined #scheme 07:50:45 maf [~na@pool-72-95-248-60.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:54:21 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 07:55:45 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:22:13 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:23:23 -!- ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 08:24:02 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 08:24:02 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #scheme 08:35:09 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:35:17 -!- alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@host113.190-138-76.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:45:38 -!- damg [~damg@p5086E534.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:50:42 Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #scheme 08:52:43 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-89-38-168.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:55:53 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:56:16 Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #scheme 08:59:35 masm [~masm@bl16-168-147.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:01:08 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-165-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 09:24:44 Gmind [~Gmind@113.190.236.124] has joined #scheme 09:24:52 -!- Gmind [~Gmind@113.190.236.124] has left #scheme 09:34:46 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-168-147.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:38:01 alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 09:44:06 -!- sth0KK [~Administr@125.71.39.215] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:51:15 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:52:41 -!- xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-qhymctfnpkivvwcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:00:29 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:34 sth0KK [~Administr@125.71.39.215] has joined #scheme 10:27:16 yeah - my thoughts to you, Japan 10:30:24 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:34  10:49:06 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-170-60.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:57:14 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-170-60.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:59:43 -!- Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-176-206-190.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 11:02:02 hmm 11:02:43 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 11:02:55 I was hoping this would work, but alas 11:02:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/120417 11:03:10 I guess I got let wrong - anyone able to help? :) 11:04:55 tried with let*, too 11:05:49 I just woke up, what's wrong with it? 11:06:03 reference to undefined identifier: b 11:06:35 delete one paren after (get-node-name node) 11:06:36 figured it out :) 11:06:38 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:06:55 thanks :D 11:07:32 I was looking at an example with let that was like (let ((v 5)) (+ v 2)) 11:07:38 Articate, when something goes wrong, look at the indentation. 11:07:44 cky: Thanks, I'm OK. 11:07:47 Articate: hint: if you check 'colorize as scheme' in lisppaste, matching parents will be shown on hovering over an expression with a css capable browser 11:07:51 so I didn't get that let works like (let (assignment) (then-do-stuff)) 11:08:14 yeah, no, my editor works wonders with that, too - I just hadn't got let right :) 11:08:20 let is (let ((var val) (var val) ...) ...) 11:08:41 But trains are stopped so I can't get home today, and my fiancee is somewhere downtown and I can't get in touch with her (cell phone lines are overloaded), 11:09:00 right, I didn't get that it was like that due to the too simple example :> 11:09:02 And my cats are no doubt freaking out :/ 11:09:11 evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 11:09:11 Constant aftershocks. 11:09:14 :/ 11:09:20 best of luck, foof 11:09:29 foof: all the best! 11:11:09 Finally! She got to a net cafe and can email me. 11:11:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:11:32 -!- someprimetime [~someprime@c-76-127-80-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #scheme 11:12:18 foof: :) 11:12:23 finally! My A* is done! 11:17:24 and it works, yessss 11:17:24 :> 11:17:48 Damnit, guys - Scheme is hard. Yesterday I spent hours writing 4 lines of code :p 11:19:33 :) isn't that much better than spending 4 hours writing 100 lines of code that do the same thing? 11:20:29 Articate: don't give up! 11:26:58 I could probably write those 100 lines in about 10 minutes, though :p 11:27:08 but, yeah, I can contribute that to experience, so I guess it's not all bad 11:27:17 I'm just not used to writing this little code! :) 11:27:30 back to jamming Coldplay on the piano 11:28:11 -!- DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-47-151.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:28:40 xwl [~user@114.241.245.172] has joined #scheme 11:34:50 poucet [~chris@li23-146.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 11:38:20 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:03 -!- emporas_ [~emporas@athedsl-171948.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:39:28 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-171948.home.otenet.gr] has joined #scheme 11:40:03 DT`` [~Feeock@net-93-149-63-132.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 11:46:30 alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 11:50:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-203.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:00:24 to add '(x x) to the end of '((a b) (c d)), is there a different way than (append '((a b) (c d)) (list '(x x)))? 12:01:43 Articate: well, you could write your own recursive function, for example. 12:02:37 there is no constant time way to get to the end of a list, if that is the question. 12:03:13 I guess you probably just want a nicer scheme library function, that I don't know. 12:03:40 I was just wondering if there was some nice trick :) 12:04:49 masm [~masm@bl16-168-147.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:09:19 what's common practice with comments and Scheme? 12:10:00 (some (code ...) here ...) ; comment this line 12:10:06 ;; comment a block of code 12:10:13 ;;; some important comment. 12:10:19 #| 12:10:27 #|? 12:10:29 some comment that will change in length. 12:10:30 |# 12:10:35 ah. 12:10:38 nice. 12:10:42 #;(commented block of code) 12:10:53 (#; comments a s-expression) 12:11:11 how is it usually used, though? - I'm thinking, since it's so compact, it feels easily possible to have more comment than code 12:12:45 my code is usually self-documenting enough, I just put some ``; todo refactor/delete/move elsewhere'' or a really long comment at the begin of the file that explains everything. 12:12:57 or comment out definitions with #; 12:19:31 thanks :) 12:23:06 what about newline in cond statements? 12:23:32 (cond ((cond1) \n (expression)\n? 12:24:09 just seems a bit messy having this all on one line: ((eq? (get-node-name (front-queue S)) (get-pred-name (front-queue P))) (retrace-iter (rest-queue S) (append (list (front-queue S)) P))) 12:24:39 (cond ((cond1) (short expression))\n((cond2)\n(long list of expressions here)) 12:24:42 ) 12:24:50 right :) 12:24:54 cheers :> 12:25:37 btw, put newlines just where you feel the need. 12:28:41 -!- kauwgom [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:41 (sqrt (+ (* (- a c) (- a c)) (* (- b d) (- b d)))) - is there a prettier way to do (a - c)^2 12:29:01 kauwgom [~reid@static-173-53-180-155.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 12:29:18 you could use let. 12:29:30 (let ((ac (- a c))\n((bd (- b d))) (sqrt (+ (sqr ac) (sqr bd))) 12:29:54 s/b d))) /b d)))\n/ 12:30:11 R5RS doesn't have sqr 12:30:24 then just (* ac ac). 12:33:12 (expt (- a c) 2) works too 12:33:22 true. 12:34:13 holy crap - I'm watching images of the tsunami just rolling in over.. islands of japan, I guess 12:34:17 that wave just doesn't stop 12:52:10 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:51 como1978 [~como1978@93-34-49-210.ip48.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 12:55:20 -!- como1978 [~como1978@93-34-49-210.ip48.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 12:58:50 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:39 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:59:44 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 13:00:38 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 13:10:57 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:11:34 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 13:16:45 muks_ [~muks@misha.banu.com] has joined #scheme 13:18:24 -!- muks [~muks@misha.banu.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:24:24 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:26:13 I just realized I've become a smug Lisp weenie. 13:26:17 Is this bad? 13:26:50 depends on your environment 13:29:14 I'm still in high school and I already know that I'll never use Lisp anywhere here. 13:29:18 I guess it is. 13:30:19 i've been using scheme to program android applications (via kawa compiling to the jvm). so you never know :) 13:30:37 DT``: you make your own opportunities for using it 13:32:10 Well, you certainly won't run short on role models. 13:33:57 DT``: just use it, there won't ever be a moment where someone comes in and says: "You. Write lisp code. now." At least for most people 13:40:15 C-Keen, I ``just use it'', now. 13:40:24 still, it's sad. 13:40:48 don't be sad, it is just a programming language 13:47:01 besides, take the right courses at uni, and you can be the smug person who already knows lisp, while the rest of the class says WTF?!!?!!! 13:49:41 -!- muks_ [~muks@misha.banu.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:49:48 muks [~muks@misha.banu.com] has joined #scheme 14:01:10 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 14:01:11 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:02:30 suppose you want to make a change to a single line (in the beginning) of a file, how would you do so efficiently? 14:03:05 hkBst: with sed? 14:03:33 nm 14:07:32 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 14:16:34 taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD93ECF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:16:43 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 14:16:43 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 14:16:43 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[~repro23@mnhm-5f74f9ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:41:15 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #scheme 19:55:18 ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 20:02:29 -!- christopher_ [~christoph@66.202.158.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:21 -!- repro23 [~repro23@mnhm-5f74f9ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: repro23] 20:03:37 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:37 -!- rageous [~Adium@user-38q461p.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:15:24 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 20:29:15 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:31:14 how do i match against a paren in a symbol list? 20:32:00 osoleve: What do you mean by that? A bracket "as a symbol"? 20:32:09 rudybot: '(|(| |)|) 20:32:10 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 20:32:10 cky: ; Value: (|(| |)|) 20:32:17 osoleve: ^^--- like those? 20:32:37 Or maybe you mean the characters? 20:32:41 rudybot: '(#\( #\)) 20:32:42 cky: ; Value: (#\( #\)) 20:33:03 as a symbol, hopefully 20:33:14 so... 20:33:18 Okay, then use |(| and |)| as I had above. 20:33:25 (at least for Racket) 20:33:27 rudybot: '(eq? |(| |(|)) 20:33:28 osoleve: using string-equal to test against symbols is nasty, just use eq 20:33:44 rudybot: (eq? |(| |(|) 20:33:44 cky: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: |(| in module: 'program 20:33:45 ruh roh, i'm using guile, not racket 20:33:51 rudybot: (eq? '|(| '|(|) 20:33:51 cky: ; Value: #t 20:33:56 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.75.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:33:57 Guile, use #{(} and #{)}. 20:34:00 Uh. 20:34:04 Guile, use #{(}# and #{)}#. 20:34:20 mmk, thanks much 20:34:22 Try this in Guile: (eq? '#{({# '#{(}#) 20:34:29 Uh. 20:34:32 Try this in Guile: (eq? '#{(}# '#{(}#) 20:34:37 One of these days I'll learn to type correctly. 20:36:49 rudybot, '\( 20:36:49 DT``: ; Value: |(| 20:37:35 rageous [~Adium@nat-portal-160-94-47-16.uofm.wireless.umn.edu] has joined #scheme 20:42:15 -!- rageous [~Adium@nat-portal-160-94-47-16.uofm.wireless.umn.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 20:43:15 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 20:43:15 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 20:43:15 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 20:46:19 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:01:40 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 21:03:38 femtooo [~femto@95-89-198-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 21:05:47 why are pythonistas *so much* arrogant? 21:06:00 seriously, they are even worse than fundamentalisps. 21:06:47 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-198-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:07:25 DT``: Because they're not having fun. ;-) 21:08:00 I'm having a discussion with a pythonista on the usefulness of Lisp macros. 21:08:05 They've lost defun 21:08:14 my god, he's a moron and arro-lol sjamaan-gant. 21:08:14 sjamaan: Quite. *nods gravely* 21:11:26 [13:05:31] why are pythonistas *so much* arrogant? 21:11:28 MIT master race 21:13:00 Harrold [~quassel@bas1-ottawa11-1176121672.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 21:13:07 python annoys me, even as a user 21:13:22 Apparently it's accepted practice to keep breaking APIs 21:13:38 So if you mix the wrong versions of the wrong libraries, shit breaks 21:13:49 And it's hard to figure out what to do to fix it 21:14:02 the language doesn't bother me that much (apart from the indentation) 21:14:07 the users are much, much worse. 21:14:15 zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 21:15:39 Python is like driving with the brakes on. 21:15:49 lol 21:15:52 hahaha 21:16:04 It's all over the language and its implementation. 21:16:06 TRU.DAT 21:16:29 lol, ruby is faster than python 21:21:33 *zmv* doesn't get something about -calculus. 21:22:50 I don't see how can I use, e.g. "be.e b". 21:23:55 (lambda (b e) (e b))? 21:24:22 but what does (e b) do? 21:24:29 Applies e to b 21:24:49 I think I don't get the concept of appliance. 21:25:27 function 21:25:27 :| 21:25:43 a b is (a b) in lisp, or a(b) in C 21:25:57 using higher order functions, of course 21:26:31 taylanub: ok, but I don't see how I can actually calculate something using that. 21:26:36 It is also known as beta reduction. It reduces e by substituting its parameter with b. 21:27:05 Jafet: well beta reduction is 'done' to an application (from what i get) 21:27:24 i was going to say "applied to an application", actually :P 21:27:44 be.e b  e[ be := b] ? 21:28:04 the right part is the representation of beta reduction in action 21:28:41 zmv: no. 21:29:02 Jafet: hm, so what's the right way to do it? 21:29:05 ah, no indeed. i didn't look at the left side 21:29:22 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-165-119.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:23 zmv: to do what? 21:29:40 beta-reduct be.e b 21:29:58 \be.e b is a lambda abstraction. it expects an "argument", so it turns into an application 21:30:05 then the application can be beta-reduced 21:30:16 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:37 \be.e b = (lambda (b e) (e b)) as already said 21:31:10 (\be.e b) c d = d e 21:31:31 pothos [~pothos@111-240-171-61.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:48 Huh 21:31:53 now d might for example be \a.a+1 (using normal algebra as an extension to lambda) 21:32:09 and the result would be e+1 21:32:58 (\be.eb)cd = dc = (\a.a+1)c = c+1. 21:35:12 heh i forgot to substitute the c for e at some point :P 21:44:18 mmc2 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 21:44:26 Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-176-206-190.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 21:50:53 -!- _reid [~reid@pool-74-99-202-17.chi01.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:52:04 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:19 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:05 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-255-34-109.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:59:05 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-255-34-109.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:59:05 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 22:05:31 sysop_fb [fb@cpe-098-121-141-115.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:09:10 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-198-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:36 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:10:22 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD93ECF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5-dev] 22:15:22 zmv___ [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 22:18:06 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934a9f5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:26:18 -!- Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-176-206-190.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 22:26:24 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@j109182.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:35:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-134.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:01 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:47:13 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:49:37 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 23:00:27 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:05:08 -!- mmc2 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:09:57 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:13:51 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 23:31:08 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:34 http://www.privatepaste.com/08d0b182fa oop in a nutshell 23:34:51 Mango-chan has read his SICP today. 23:34:59 no 23:35:02 more like 23:35:04 i took SICP today 23:35:24 lucky you. 23:35:35 i'm glad my intro classed is named 23:35:36 SICP 23:35:52 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.173.210] has joined #scheme 23:41:10 man 23:41:14 this piece of code is so fascinating 23:42:24 docgnome [~docgnome@75.125.121.216] has joined #scheme