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[Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:33:35 pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 00:33:35 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 00:33:35 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 00:36:50 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:38:11 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 00:38:25 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has left #scheme 00:40:02 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:46:12 taylanub, the pathname abstraction was designed before Windows existed. 00:47:04 (or unix apparently) 00:47:37 It was designed to cover many different operating systems: ITS, Unix, VMS, Genera, Multics, &c. 00:47:39 Lisp and Unix had quite separate histories 00:47:51 pdlogan, no, Unix predated this pathname abstraction. 00:47:56 j/k 00:48:18 taylanub, look at the beginning of the section titled `Pathnames' in the MIT Scheme reference manual for an illustration. 00:52:02 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.254.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:23 svankie [~svankie@152-55-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #scheme 00:55:55 i see 00:56:06 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:12 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:35 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:57:39 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:58:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:58:35 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:58 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:00:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:24 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 01:02:43 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:45 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:02:50 -!- pdlogan [~patrick@75-175-5-194.ptld.qwest.net] has left #scheme 01:03:08 oh, there's also a function that will get the proper basename for unix. all is fine then 01:04:05 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:04:53 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:06:17 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:11 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 01:13:13 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-11.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:13:17 vilsonvieira [~vilson@201.22.83.150.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #scheme 01:13:27 -!- davazp 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[~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:51:45 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-nficyyaealzwveoj] has joined #scheme 01:51:59 -!- evhan_ is now known as evhan 01:56:10 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-0-72.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:56:21 Hello. 01:56:47 :-) 02:03:15 -!- githogori [~githogori@2.sub-75-210-20.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:13 Hi. 02:05:43 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:13 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:07:14 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:07:14 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 02:09:18 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-151-109.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 02:09:50 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:20 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 02:23:37 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:32 -!- tauntaun [~Antoninus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:30:18 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:35:41 jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:36:07 *jcowan* unvanishes. 02:36:28 Boo! 02:36:33 02:36:39 Zog! 02:36:44 :-P 02:36:46 fds: s/Zog/Zot/ 02:37:00 Oh, maybe. I can't keep track 02:37:05 Hehehehe. 02:37:15 `Zog' is not a canonical metasyntactic variable. 02:37:41 It is now. 02:37:53 *jcowan* thumbs through the Younger Canon to find a blank spot 02:37:57 Is `zot'? And `boo' definitely isn't! 02:39:33 They are now. 02:40:35 This is why jcowan isn't really in charge of canonical metasyntactic variable administration. :-) 02:41:29 Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 02:45:01 True, true 02:45:36 I've gotten jammed up in Let over Lambda in the discussion of anaphoric macros 02:46:07 I do see that the anaphoric nature of them is fairly trivial. 02:47:17 *fds* looks up `anaphoric' 02:47:31 It means `holding wine'. 02:47:43 The kind that introduce a random name like "it" or "self" into the scope of their arguments. 02:47:58 Heh, that's what I thought. But then I realised that I don't live in an Asterix comic 02:48:02 Syntax-rules can't support them, at least not without insane contortions. 02:48:24 ("Metafora" in Modern Greek means 'moving van') 02:48:29 Leave it at `can't'. The insane contortions don't give the same thing. 02:48:56 Good. Anyhow, aif injects 'it', but it could just as well be supplied with the name to inject. 02:49:44 (aif it (yonk s) (boo it) (die!)) 02:51:43 Anyhow, I got lost at alet over dlambda, but I'm not sure if that's because I was just too tired or if I had hit a comprehension wall. 02:55:19 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 03:05:14 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 03:10:45 OTOH, I am very impressed with the Scheme-to-syntax-rules compiler. 03:11:31 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-198-38.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:11:40 bttf [~docBrown@c-69-246-160-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:11:40 -!- dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:13:47 what is the difference between let and let* ? 03:14:21 one is parallel 03:15:02 *fds* has just learnt about `aif' 03:15:52 parallel in what manner? 03:16:09 jcowan: http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/macros.html#syntax-rules-compiler this? 03:16:17 That 03:16:19 It knows about the other things that you're letting 03:17:07 i see so it keeps track of the lets under it 03:17:22 how does that benefit 03:17:32 Daemmeru` [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 03:18:31 If you want to do (let ((a 2) (b (+ a 1))) (+ a b)) you can't. (Or something like that.) 03:18:40 ^mye^ [~mye@dslc-082-082-095-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 03:19:04 bttf: Example: (let ((x y)) ((y x)) ...) is like var x, y = y, x (in languages that allow multiple assignment). 03:19:17 Uh. 03:19:22 bttf: Example: (let ((x y) (y x)) ...) is like var x, y = y, x (in languages that allow multiple assignment). 03:19:39 (let* ((x y) (y x)) ...) is like var x = y; var y = x 03:19:43 var x, y = y, x? 03:20:15 i see 03:20:21 Ah, you may not know that syntax. Basically, create two variables, x and y, using values from the _previous_ y and x. 03:21:10 jcowan_ [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:21:10 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:21:19 fds: You can; b will just use a differente "a" (not one defined in the same "let"). 03:21:22 *different 03:21:25 -!- mye^ [~mye@dslc-082-082-084-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:21:54 e.g., (let ((a 42)) (let ((a 2) (b (+ a 1))) (+ a b))) ; b is 43, not 3 03:23:19 cky: Heh, true. 03:23:36 I assumed that the world outside my let statement was empty" 03:23:44 Hehehehe. 03:24:50 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 03:24:53 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:25:00 -!- jcowan_ is now known as jcowan 03:25:17 (Not completely empty, obviously. `let' was defined, and `+'.) 03:25:34 *fds* pre-empts pedants! 03:26:07 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:19 Even in the null environment, let exists. 03:32:56 because it is a special form or something like that? 03:32:59 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-151-109.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:33:59 Yes. 03:34:00 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 03:34:23 If the null environment were really empty, it would be completely useless instead of just mostly useless. 03:35:11 .oO(useless ... harmless) 03:35:47 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:37:18 It's useful for building sandboxes. 03:37:19 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-38-142-34.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:38:22 Of course, it requires an implementation that supports two things: 1. mutable environments, 1b. null-environment is a constructor for a new instance of a null environment, and 2. eval can process forms with procedures in them. 03:39:26 Then, you can do: (define sandbox (null-environment 5)) (eval `(begin (define + ,+) (define - ,-) ...) sandbox) 03:40:31 jcowan_ [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:44:33 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:44:42 bharath_g [~bharath10@117.211.88.150] has joined #scheme 03:46:53 -!- foof` is now known as foof 03:47:57 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD936BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 03:52:43 timj_ [~timj@e176194066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:56:00 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176196190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:21 J is being released under the GPL3! 03:58:28 pff 03:58:33 J is old news; I use K 03:58:44 K is old news; you don't use Q? 03:58:45 No, wait. 03:58:52 Q is old news; you don't use Q4? 03:58:52 Q?! 03:58:55 Q! 03:59:03 I thought that was just a research project! 03:59:14 Q is the new K! 03:59:16 *offby1* sells all his K books 03:59:39 I'd tell you to google it, but, well, you'll probably just pull up a lot of photos of John DeLancey. 04:00:00 .oO( Holy hell, why is that name still in my short-term memory? I should be using that for something useful! ) 04:00:32 offby1, hang on a tic.\ 04:01:05 I don't mean Q, the term-rewriting research project; I mean the _other_ programming language named Q, from Kx Systems. 04:01:10 *offby1* doesn't know any tics large enough to support his rather bulky frame 04:01:25 Um, why are we discussing J/K/Q? 04:01:31 Did I miss something? 04:01:50 I thought I was keeping my secret APL hacking restricted to my blog and Usenet. 04:02:08 arcfide, because of John Howland's Aprol system which linked J and Scheme, if for no other reason! 04:02:43 arcfide, I think it's no secret that there's a significant overlap between Scheme hackers and closet APL enthusiasts. I mean, just look at Olin Shivers and ol' slib wotsizbutt. 04:02:45 J is APL without the fun. I want my funny symbols! 04:03:23 (man, I remember John de Lancie but forget Aubrey Jaffer. I am disappoint) 04:03:26 Then where are all the APL for Scheme libraries? 04:04:06 arcfide, Aprol is one; IOTA in SRFI-1 is an APL ripoff; Jaffer's array SRFIs are all heavily APL-influenced... 04:04:15 I actually just finished a one liner to solve Project Euler #12 in APL. 04:04:21 Neeeeeeeeerd 04:04:47 Which APL system are you using? 04:04:56 APLX. 04:05:30 Neato! 04:06:06 I was really surprised that the only open-source APL seems to be Windows only. 04:06:24 I guess most of the UNIX crazies just use Perl. 04:06:46 arcfide, I only know of A+, Apex/Acorn, and now J. 04:06:58 all I know about APL is that the dearly departed Tektronix made nice APL terminals 04:07:01 Dyalog seems to be the most popular. 04:07:01 I'm very, very excited that J may now be on the path to being packaged into Debian. 04:07:34 arcfide, which open-source APL do you know of which runs under Windows? 04:08:47 NARS2000. 04:09:20 Jeepers, I've never even heard of that one. 04:09:58 A+, Apex, and J all seem to be derivatives of APL. 04:10:25 As opposed to derivatives of APL2, or as opposed to being pure APLs? 04:10:32 *shrug* 04:10:49 They seem to be clustered into APL2-likes, and the rest of them. 04:11:13 K and Q I thought were APL+Lisp things. 04:11:13 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:11:39 arcfide, I believe that J is considerably more lispy than K, but I'm no expert. 04:12:15 Well, the APLX guys are treating me well so far, and it has been quite fun to play around with. 04:12:39 It seems to map pretty closely to my APL2 manual. 04:13:46 Are you a closet APL enthusiast, gnomon? 04:14:07 I, uh. 04:14:13 *gnomon* looks around furtively 04:14:29 Why, no, of course not! 04:14:33 *gnomon* winks elaborately 04:14:35 Actually, and I do not know if this is a good thing or not, I know more APL now than Haskell. 04:15:50 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:16:43 arcfide, I can say the same, but only because I've mostly been ignoring Haskell. 04:17:13 Hah! 04:17:21 I cannot escape it over here. 04:17:47 Fortunately, I just have to be able to ask pointed questions about people's code, and not write any Haskell myself. 04:18:17 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:18:48 Man, you just described what seems to be the majority of my job these days. 04:22:35 So, I think this conversation needs Unicode symbols, in honor of APL. 04:22:49 /me whistles innocently 04:23:27 Nice. 04:25:20 *gnomon* pores over the 1F6xx range for inappropriate emoji that will cause fixed-width fonts to balk 04:25:23 I learned APL and Scheme within weeks of each other. The Scheme stuck, the APL... not so much. Would love an excuse to relearn it. 04:25:33 -!- Daemmeru` is now known as Daemmerung 04:25:38 Hmm, it seems that Unicode doesn't yet have a plane for Zalgo. 04:26:49 Daemmerung, I've got this strange situation: I don't know much APL, and I can't call myself and APL programmer, but I keep trying to use approaches in other programming languages which I _know_ have single-character expressions in APL. 04:27:17 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 04:27:30 Rotate and fold and all that? 04:28:13 Daemmerung: How did you come to learn APL and Scheme ad the same time (near enough)? 04:28:18 When I say it didn't take, I mean it /really/ didn't take. I love the idea of APL; I was just unable ever to express myself in it. 04:28:19 *offby1* waves at Daemmerung 04:28:29 Daemmerung, and reshape, by golly. 04:28:32 *Daemmerung* waves back, yeah, look what the cat dragged in 04:28:40 eww 04:28:44 wish you hadn't said that 04:28:58 Why's that? 04:29:05 you found a successor to Buster yet? or still mooching off the neighbors? 04:30:06 arcfide: they were the two languages taught in the bust-your-ass CS intro to majors at my Uni, lo those many years ago. 04:30:15 but back then we called Scheme 'T' 04:30:44 Daemmerung: Neighbors. Both were over at once an hour ago. 04:30:51 (cats, people; I'm talking about cats.) 04:31:16 wow, Daemmerung is O-L-D 04:31:17 offby1: did they, like good houseguests, bring you a hostess gift? 04:31:22 nah 04:31:36 they asked what was for dinner. We said "nothin'" and they left. 04:31:40 typical 04:31:45 yeah 04:31:59 *Daemmerung* adjusts his dentures thoughtfully 04:32:19 Daemmerung, that similar course at one of my universities used R5RS and Prolog. It was taught to students who were taught to only care about Java, by a Java prof (who advocated using Eclipse and didn't understand the difference between binding and assignment), and it just about broke my heart. 04:32:38 gnomon: :-( 04:33:00 Eclipse, oy 04:33:55 That's what I said, with less profanity. 04:33:59 though I might yet have to relent. problem is, Eclipse is THe SUpported Platform for too many javaish environments. 04:34:30 Daemmerung: That's kind of interesting. APL was really easy for me to pick up, but that may be because I have been programming for a while now. 04:35:10 *arcfide* takes a cookie break. 04:35:30 Ooh, can I have one? 04:35:37 Well, I suppose I can; rather, may I? 04:35:40 arcfide: I had the usual freshman distractions. Perhaps another time, it might have taken. But Scheme was just a shaft of purest gold when all else around was dark. 04:36:04 I wish I had said that. 04:36:11 "shaft"? 04:36:12 YOu will, offby1, you will. 04:36:22 It's true, you know. 04:36:23 *offby1* nods gravely 04:36:35 SHAFT! Damn right. 04:36:44 Hush yo' mouth 04:36:51 But I'm talkin' bout Shaft 04:36:55 And we can dig it! 04:37:43 *Daemmerung* reads back the buffer a ways.... 04:37:49 never heard of NARS2000, either. 04:39:59 It kind of sounds like the kind of body kit one might use to graft a faux carbon-fiber wing onto the back of a Honda Civic, doesn't it? 04:40:14 -1s/kind of // 04:40:41 careful, you're writing like I do now. 04:41:35 need to go to boot camp to lose the kind-of sort-of little-bit style that somehow crept into my writing and speech. there's a 60 year old Macon Georgia schoolteacher inside of me, and she's taking over, it seems 04:42:01 I'd'a thought a schoolteacher would whup that outta ya 04:42:09 "Omit needless words" &c 04:42:18 *gnomon* chuckles 04:42:33 I was sent off to an "ACTION WRITING!!!!11!1" course the other week be $EMPLOYER. 04:42:42 *offby1* shrivels 04:43:23 -1s/ be / by / 04:43:28 -!- svankie [~svankie@152-55-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [] 04:43:30 It was _awful_. 04:43:42 *offby1* imagines they used PowerPoint 04:43:59 Daemmerung, I thought you meant that you were slipping into a regular-expression style of writing, a la http://secretgeek.net/fuv_intro.asp 04:44:50 offby1, PowerPoint, presented by someone with the word "dynamic" on vir business card, who had been flown in from New York for the occasion and who bragged about having worked in advertising. 04:45:05 It was like playing cliché bingo. 04:45:29 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:45:42 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:52 s/PowerPoint/PoserPoint/g 04:47:12 (A brilliant typo that I wish everyone would make.) 04:47:32 Indeed! 04:47:38 And a jolly good evening to you, sir! 04:48:42 *jcowan_* uses PowerPoint headlines in his talk 04:48:54 s/talk/talks 04:49:31 Hi. 04:49:38 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 04:53:27 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:31 mario-go` [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 04:54:14 So is there any interesting chatter about Irken? 04:57:35 I think in Powerpoint bullet points. It is very sad. Like a terminal disease. Like those guys who once sprayed roach poison for a living, and now have to ask their nurse to light their cigarettes for them. There must be a better way. 04:58:52 *offby1* said it before, and he says it again; 04:58:56 "Release the Irken!" 05:01:56 mye^ [~mye@dslb-088-070-009-227.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 05:02:49 *foof* said it before, and he says it again; 05:02:53 "Python?!" 05:03:27 Wait, is Irken written in Python?\ 05:03:41 Irken't remember in what language it's written. 05:04:02 http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Wynken,_Blynken,_and_Nod 05:04:58 *dralston* recognizes his childhood right there. 05:05:12 -!- ^mye^ [~mye@dslc-082-082-095-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:05:44 why Irken don't bootstrap using Python then itself, that is, self hosting? 05:07:03 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:08:08 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 05:08:42 offby1` [~user@ec2-67-202-7-151.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 05:08:48 -!- offby1` [~user@ec2-67-202-7-151.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has 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[~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:52:55 new2net [~N2N@unaffiliated/new2net] has joined #scheme 08:53:47 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:54:08 does map walk through a list and apply a function to each element? 08:54:11 mengu [~Death@unaffiliated/mengu] has joined #scheme 08:54:46 new2net: it does 08:55:01 but it doesn't mutate the list, right? 08:55:06 it collect results to new list 08:55:15 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:55:18 mind reader :D 08:55:27 all mutating functions has "!" in the name 08:55:35 BANG :P i like that lol 08:55:36 set!, reverse! and so on. 08:56:02 append! :D returns unexpected side effects right? 08:57:10 (map (lambda (n) (+ n 1)) (cons 1 (cons 2 '()))) => (2 3) 08:59:49 what about "fun"? is that anything like map? 09:00:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 09:02:20 uh, I suppose by "fun" I meant forEach functions 09:02:38 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:55 -!- new2net [~N2N@unaffiliated/new2net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:56 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:19:16 taylanub [4ff75a5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.247.90.90] has joined #scheme 09:22:04 damn, there's more implementations than i thought. 09:24:12 huh 09:30:44 there are even more than you think there are now! 09:32:17 in fact, string theorists predict there are an infinite number of implementations in alternate universes, but most of them evaluate (+ 2.0 2.0) => +inf.0 09:32:28 each time you post here, the new scheme implementation have born 09:33:23 foof: at least, they have trivial gamma reduction for + 09:34:28 gamma reduction? i only know alpha, beta, and eta 09:35:45 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-190-232-247.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 09:36:05 hmm, in my books there are 3, alpha (rename), beta (substitution) and gamma ("low level" computations, like +) 09:36:17 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 09:36:24 may be this is wrong translation 09:37:24 saccade [~saccade@74-95-7-186-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 09:37:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus this article is golden 09:37:27 ah, no, eta is about rewritting 09:38:51 lemme check more... 09:39:15 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-235-109.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:05 "gamma reduction" doesn't reveal much when googled 09:40:28 you sure you didn't mean eta ? 09:41:47 no, no... eta is about rewritting. alpha, beta and eta all are pure 09:41:55 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:41:57 "" 09:42:07 i have read about gamma and gamma is dirty as it does computation 09:42:43 interesting 09:42:53 afair, it was "Functional Programming" by Harrison, Field. 09:43:05 Can't find online :( 09:46:10 slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has joined #scheme 09:47:12 rmrfchik: this one? http://books.google.com/books?id=nYtQAAAAMAAJ&q=functional+programming+by+harrison,+field&dq=functional+programming+by+harrison,+field&hl=en&ei=a2NvTaeAKMTBtAabl9SIDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA 09:47:13 http://tinyurl.com/4j6v2ca 09:49:14 this one 09:50:44 found djview with russian translation. Authors use term "delta rules" 09:50:48 not gamma (my fault!) 09:51:54 ^mye^ [~mye@dslb-088-070-009-193.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 09:51:55 examples of delta rules: (- 4 1) -> 3 09:52:28 chapter 6.2 of Part II of book 09:53:25 damn, i have read it so long ago and all this time I thought about gamma not delta! 09:54:49 -!- mye^ [~mye@dslb-088-070-017-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:55:02 "delta" for "diff" so it only works for "-" ? 09:56:12 delta works for any ;) 09:56:14 -!- bharath_g [~bharath10@117.211.88.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:33 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:24 bharath_g [~bharath10@117.211.88.150] has joined #scheme 10:00:42 -!- Daemmeru` [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:47 Daemmeru` [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 10:02:04 -!- Daemmeru` [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Remote host closed 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[~N2N@66.244.100.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:56 new2net [~N2N@unaffiliated/new2net] has joined #scheme 14:32:43 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 14:34:38 whats the difference between map and forEach, in the context of lists 14:35:08 -!- ewanas [~dsc@78.100.210.180] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:03 I don't know what `forEach' is, but MAP returns a new list while FOR-EACH runs for effects. 14:36:04 new2net: map is for when you want a list as result. for-each is for when you are only interested in side-effects and don't care about the return value. 14:36:46 side-effects, like mutating the list? 14:37:38 Not necessarily the list given as argument to for-each, but any side-effect. 14:38:08 Since for-each doesn't return an useful value, its only application is for when you want to mutate something. 14:38:35 I think I need a for-each example heh. I understand map. 14:39:11 (map (lambda (n) (+ n 1)) (cons 3 (cons 4 '()))) 14:39:14 (4 5) 14:39:26 rudybot: eval (for-each display '("Hello" #\, #\space "world" #\!)) 14:39:26 Riastradh: your sandbox is ready 14:39:26 Riastradh: ; stdout: "Hello, world!" 14:42:33 i see. 14:44:05 so forEach iterates over the list (like walk does), but it doesn't have to return a list, it can return anything (or nothing)? 14:44:35 new2net: for-each is garuanteed to be in the order of the list, but map is not. 14:44:44 There's a hyphen in it. Scheme doesn't care what case you use, but it does care whether you write all the characters in the name. 14:45:29 sorry, "forEach" is because java has been rotting my brain. 14:46:50 :-) 14:46:56 so how would you implement my line of code with map using a for-each? 14:47:29 Why would you want to? 14:49:45 just to see. I will play with them some, I'm sure it'll click 14:50:37 Here is one way you could do it: (let ((pair (cons 0 '()))) (set-car! pair pair) (for-each (lambda (n) (let ((p (cons (+ n 1) '()))) (set-cdr! (car pair) p) (set-car! pair p))) '(3 4)) (cdr pair)) 14:51:34 You could also write (begin (for-each + '()) '(4 5)) to get the same effects and value! 14:53:17 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:53:54 -!- myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:00 josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-185-215-221.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 14:54:10 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-185-215-221.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #scheme 14:55:33 oh I can just type (list 1 2 3).. i've been using cons 14:55:58 Hahahaha. 14:56:21 new2net: Anyway. Moral of the story: if you care about the result of each function call and want to collect their results, use MAP. If you don't care, use FOR-EACH. 14:56:49 If you don't care and you're code golfing, you can use MAP anyway, but don't blame me if people complain about your code style. 14:57:27 my teacher said "you'll need to undue the damage if you expect any credit for this program". 14:57:41 What? 14:57:51 "Undue" is not a verb. 14:58:42 will is a verb 14:59:25 No, Will is a guy, and he's my friend. Why do you have to call him a verb? What'd he ever do to you? 14:59:49 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #scheme 15:00:10 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-151-109.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 15:01:12 he hit my dog 15:01:32 new2net: Seriously, your misspelling of "undo" notwithstanding, what "damage" is your teacher talking about? 15:01:53 Do we have to be serious, cky? 15:02:12 Nah. I'm too tired for that. 15:02:15 I suppose if our behaviour is strict, we do not need fun! Or so sayeth Zippy, on the subject of functional languages. 15:02:34 i don't need fun, all of my lists are proper. 15:02:58 (they . are?) 15:03:28 I'm not sure how to check 15:04:39 new2net: using proper-list? 15:05:43 Or you could just tap it on the shoulder and start with a standard ice-breaker like "hey, nice weather, eh?" or "how's that restraining order coming along?". It's really not so hard to check these things once you get used to it. 15:06:14 gnomon: How's that restraining odrer coming along? 15:06:25 GET AWAY FROM ME YOU FREAK 15:06:32 Hehehehehehe. 15:06:39 Er, sorry, bad example. 15:07:27 (foreach display (list 1 2 3 4 5))... what else can I put in place of display? 15:07:51 oops for-each* 15:08:02 maybe eq? 2 15:09:00 new2net: That doesn't have side effects. 15:09:04 The result will be thrown away. 15:10:01 new2net: (for-each exit '(1 2 3 4 5)) 15:10:02 :-P 15:10:34 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:10:45 I actually wonder if rudybot guards against that. 15:10:49 rudybot: (for-each exit '(1 2 3 4 5)) 15:10:50 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 15:10:50 cky: error: evaluator: terminated (exited) 15:11:16 rudybot: (for-each print '(1 2 3 4 5)) 15:11:17 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 15:11:17 cky: ; stdout: "12345" 15:11:28 It hasn't killed the bot. That's a good sign. :-P 15:11:55 paulh_ [~paulh@3-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 15:12:37 rudybot: (for-each append! '() (list 1 2 3 4 5)) 15:12:37 new2net: your sandbox is ready 15:12:37 new2net: error: reference to undefined identifier: append! 15:13:48 :( my lack of basic Scheme syntax is emberassing 15:17:14 I think you meant to do.... 15:17:18 rudybot: (require srfi/1) 15:17:18 cky: Done. 15:18:09 rudybot: (let ((result (list))) (for-each (lambda (x) (append! result x)) '(1 2 3 4 5)) result) 15:18:09 cky: ; Value: () 15:18:44 rudybot: (let ((result (list))) (for-each (lambda (x) (set! result (append! result x))) '(1 2 3 4 5)) result) 15:18:44 cky: error: append: expected argument of type ; given 1 15:19:10 rudybot: (let ((result (list))) (for-each (lambda (x) (set! result (append! result (list x)))) '(1 2 3 4 5)) result) 15:19:10 cky: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5) 15:19:13 *pukes* 15:19:21 Appending items to a list is really yucky. 15:19:25 I would never do it in real code. 15:19:36 (The usual approach is to prepend, then reverse.) 15:19:53 rudybot: (let ((result (list))) (for-each (lambda (x) (set! result (cons x result))) '(1 2 3 4 5)) (reverse! result)) 15:19:53 cky: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5) 15:19:53 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:15 Of course, no real Schemer really writes it using for-each and set!. 15:20:24 The usual approach is to use fold. 15:20:42 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 15:20:46 rudybot: (reverse! (fold cons '() '(1 2 3 4 5))) 15:20:46 cky: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5) 15:21:17 new2net: (Fold is used to iterate through a list and update some value incrementally.) 15:21:26 rudybot: (foldl cons '() '(1 2 3 4)) 15:21:26 new2net: ; Value: (4 3 2 1) 15:21:53 how many bits did I just flip? I need to start charging by the bit :p 15:22:02 Heh. 15:24:40 Harrold [~quassel@dhcp-143-27.hpsc-students.carleton.ca] has joined #scheme 15:24:47 preyalone [81ae6122@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.97.34] has joined #scheme 15:25:16 Chicken Scheme doesn't appear to have (string-contains). Is it called something else? 15:26:01 preyalone: Try (use srfi-13) and then try again 15:26:16 sjamaan: Thanks. 15:26:26 It's probably called `(use srfi-13) ... string-contains ...', or something. 15:26:27 Why isn't that called "strings"?! 15:26:39 Because it's an SRFI 15:26:51 SRFIs are addressed by number 15:27:22 An alias would be nice. 15:27:46 Talk to the SRFI committee 15:27:59 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-165-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:28:36 srfi-13 isn't present on my system. How do I install it? 15:28:37 You can always write: (use srfi-13) ;string-lib 15:29:14 It is always installed with Chicken 15:29:46 Not on Mac OS X. Error: (load-library) unable to load library srfi-13 "dlopen(libchicken.dylib, 9): image not found" 15:29:49 myu2 [~myu2@x108121.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 15:29:59 Sounds like your installation is broken 15:30:05 How did you install it? 15:30:09 MacPorts 15:30:47 tauntaun [~Antoninus@ool-44c7e46c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 15:31:40 sjamaan: I find it as odd to see "an SRFI" as I do seeing "an FAQ". I always say "a SRFI" (a surfie) and "a FAQ" (a fack). 15:32:00 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:06 Harrold_ [~quassel@dhcp-101-110.hpsc-staff.carleton.ca] has joined #scheme 15:32:10 I tried "chicken-install srfi-13". http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=WZpqEF6q 15:32:39 Sounds like your installation is quite broken. 15:32:48 cky: I pronounce SRFI sometimes as "surfy" and sometimes as "ess ar ef eye" 15:32:55 sjamaan: *nods* 15:33:08 Merf. MacPorts CLISP is also broken. I'm beginning to suspect MacPorts applications are out of date. 15:33:11 -!- Harrold [~quassel@dhcp-143-27.hpsc-students.carleton.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:33:23 Probably. 15:33:26 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 15:33:26 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 15:33:26 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:33:33 preyalone: chicken-install srfi-13 won't work. It's not an egg, it's part of core 15:33:37 Is Chicken Version 4.4.0 a recent version? 15:33:40 It sounds like your Macports setup is broken 15:33:46 4.4.0 is oldish, but should still work 15:33:47 preyalone: 4.6.0 is the latest, IIRC. 15:33:53 indeed 15:33:53 oh I get it :) for-each doesn't return anything, it just goes through the list in order and applies proc 15:33:59 new2net: Yep. 15:34:43 preyalone: I hear from Mac users that chicken is best installed using homebrew 15:35:00 DrGuteMoritz: Thanks. 15:35:00 new2net: for-each goes from left-to-right order because doing it any other way is just silly. map does not specify an order because there are two straightforward ways to do it: either left-to-right or right-to-left. 15:35:18 new2net: (Granted, an implementation is allowed to use a random order for map if it wants to, but that's very uncommon.) 15:36:23 well I use racket, I think it does left to right. 15:36:34 new2net: Yes, Racket does left-to-right as a matter of policy. 15:36:43 I also use rudybot 15:37:02 But for portability, I use map-in-order if the order is important to me. 15:37:14 I've been riding the failtrain of Common Lisp. No standard way to get ARGV, no thread support, no shebangs. SBCL and ECL fail to compile on Ubuntu/Xen. Chicken Scheme is a breath of fresh air. 15:37:20 wtfness [~dsc@78.100.228.166] has joined #scheme 15:37:57 -!- wtfness is now known as nixness 15:38:02 Just out of curiosity, how does Chicken compare with newLISP? 15:38:06 preyalone: If you're using Ubuntu, why would you be trying to compile your own packages? Are the versions that come with Ubuntu not recent enough? 15:38:31 cky: No no no. Aptitude's SBCL and ECL fail to install. The process includes a compilation step. 15:38:42 Wow. That's super bizarre. 15:39:02 ...newLisp? newLisp is a joke. 15:39:20 Riastradh: Why? 15:42:38 preyalone: I'm testing installation of SBCL on Debian Squeeze now, running on Xen. 15:42:56 preyalone: We'll see how it goes. I expect it to succeed, but if it doesn't, then that could be interesting. 15:43:09 cky: Thank you very much. SBCL, Xen, and my webhost are passing the buck on this problem. 15:43:49 preyalone: I successfully installed SBCL on my Xen machine. 15:43:58 Webhost...does it have enough RAM? 15:44:01 SBCL fails when you've got a restrictive virtual memory limit 15:44:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 15:44:07 What chrissbx said. 15:44:14 cky: 256MB 15:44:18 Yeah, no. 15:44:20 That's probably too little. 15:44:24 merf. 15:44:39 well, double check ulimit 15:44:41 Why on earth would it do that? That's absurd. 15:44:52 It's not that SBCL necessarily needs much physical ram, just virtual mem 15:45:01 cky: Can you try shrinking the RAM to find the experimental minimum requirements? 15:45:12 It doesn't `need' that virtual memory either. 15:45:12 preyalone: Hahaha, I'll have a try. :-P 15:45:25 you can't shrink the RAM, you can only shrink the virtual mem limit and that needs to be high 15:45:43 chrissbx: In Xen, you _can_ shrink (and expand) the RAM allocation. 15:45:49 ah Xen, ok 15:45:57 chrissbx: I mean change Xen (I'm assuming it's like VMware) to simulate a smaller RAM stick. 15:46:13 sudo xm mem-set ... (IIRC) 15:46:27 As a side note, is there a Chicken equivalent of Python's if __name__=="__main__"? 15:47:01 What legitimate reason could SBCL possibly have, other than sheer laziness, for demanding a large virtual memory allocation? 15:49:02 -!- preyalone [81ae6122@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.97.34] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:49:18 preyalone [81ae6122@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.97.34] has joined #scheme 15:50:21 I don't know 15:50:22 but on my machine it needs at least about 9G of virtual mem to start 15:51:08 chrissbx: SBCL needs 9GB? 15:51:10 then it uses 35M rss. So, testing with 256M doesn't make sense, it will work as long as you have those 9G virtual mem 15:52:18 That's stupid. I don't even *have* 9G of virtual address space on the machine I'm typing on. You should file a bug report. 15:53:06 This machine is still running lenny; although sbcl has been like that since at least 2005. I never bothered. 15:53:08 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:53:13 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 15:53:39 Riastradh: I have, but I didn't know that was the problem. Will fill in Launchpad and the mailing lists with the details. 15:54:32 Check for FAQs, I very much expect it to be one. 15:54:56 Hmm... Is this limit set with ulimit, or is it a knob in the operating system that is not straightforward to query from unprivileged userland programs? If the latter, then it would be reasonable for SBCL to fail. 15:54:57 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:27 Well, ulimit -v somethingbelow8G definitely breaks it. 15:56:04 Also, I expect Linux to be in overcommit mode, or else you having swap+RAM > 9G 15:56:17 expect Linux to have to be* 15:57:21 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:57:40 Since not having ulimit and overcommit are the default on most distros, it's not going to be an issue for most users. 15:58:00 pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 15:58:00 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 15:58:00 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:58:01 (not having ulimit set*, and..) 15:59:11 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #scheme 15:59:53 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:01:17 -!- faze` [~faze`@c-66-41-214-124.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:19 -!- mengu [~Death@unaffiliated/mengu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:20 preyalone_ [81ae6122@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.97.34] has joined #scheme 16:04:49 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 16:06:49 -!- preyalone [81ae6122@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.97.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:06:56 -!- new2net is now known as N2N 16:09:16 How can I run COMPILE-FILE on a file in MIT-Scheme that uses macros that are defined in another file? I tried putting (LOAD "otherfile.scm") at the top of the file I want to compile, but that doesn't seem to help. 16:09:18 I posted the exact nature of the SBCL problem at https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/725881/comments/4 16:10:23 -!- N2N is now known as new2net 16:10:24 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 16:11:05 -!- rins [~user@173-162-214-174-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:44 femtoo [~femto@95-89-198-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 16:11:50 -!- preyalone_ [81ae6122@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.97.34] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:12:59 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:14:06 Well seems his problems wasn't virtual memory after all. *shaking head* 16:15:46 Somehow I expected him to check his facts himself. 16:16:20 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 16:16:20 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 16:16:20 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 16:19:12 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:23:32 chrissbx: Hahahahaha. 16:23:50 chrissbx: You'd think, right? 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peer] 17:01:35 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:53 pothos [~pothos@111-240-169-63.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 17:02:03 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:02:19 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:19 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has left #scheme 17:02:35 tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has joined #scheme 17:03:17 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:15 ecraven, you have to load it before you call COMPILE-FILE. 17:04:35 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:19 -!- outofbrain [~outofbrai@dslb-088-071-084-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: outofbrain] 17:05:50 jewel 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[~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 21:43:12 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:00 -!- josephholsten_ [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:44:41 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 21:53:04 wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has joined #scheme 21:53:07 evening, schemers 21:54:18 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:55:01 schemers, evening 21:56:57 eveners, scheming 21:57:18 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:57:30 *bremner_* averts his eyes from all of the infix notation 21:57:51 sjamaan, audio kinda works on my MacBook now. You should see (or perhaps not) the enormous quirk tables in the Linux driver... 21:57:58 heh 21:58:09 I know Jared wanted to keep those out of his driver 21:58:10 Riastradh: did you give up on the dvi thing! 21:58:20 But I suppose that's too optimistic ;) 21:58:22 a question with an exclamation 21:58:40 Anyway, congrats on getting it to work 21:59:33 wingo, (a) This is a MacBook I already had: I haven't bought any new laptop. (b) I don't think it is possible to win morally here, and I have been persuaded that I'm never going to lose practically, so, yes. 22:00:10 alack. good luck on your other goals tho :) 22:00:26 In particular, I'm told that pretty much all new DVI ports (and HDMI -- no difference) made these days will have hardware for talking the HDCP protocol. But they won't actually do it unless the operating system -- probably with an enormous quirk table! -- knows the magic secret incantation to actually fail, and no free software operating system is likely to know about such proprietary secrets as how to fail. 22:01:41 hahaha 22:01:51 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 22:01:51 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 22:01:51 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:01:56 fantastic description of the horror that is DRM 22:03:32 That said, I still don't like shopping, and there's something morbidly fascinating about making stuff work on this crufty ancient 2006 i386 MacBook, and maybe, some day, perhaps -- well, no, probably nobody else will ever run NetBSD on such a critter. 22:11:30 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:34 kuribas [~user@d54C4312A.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 22:15:20 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 22:19:55 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:42 Anyway, at least the MacBook is a lot faster and more capacious in memory and disk space than my current laptop. 22:27:19 haha, "Tom" Wingo :) 22:27:58 :) 22:28:23 -!- choas [~lars@p5792C4E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:48 -!- qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:51 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:19 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 22:30:05 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #scheme 22:31:14 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:39 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 22:33:07 -!- tonyg_ is now known as tonyg 22:36:08 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 22:38:57 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has left #scheme 22:40:57 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:06 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 22:45:06 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 22:45:06 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:45:10 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 22:46:12 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 22:48:11 wtfness [~dsc@78.100.210.180] has joined #scheme 22:48:57 -!- wtfness is now known as ewanas 22:49:59 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:50:06 -!- ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:07 ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has joined #scheme 22:52:29 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 22:52:29 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 22:52:29 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 22:55:05 -!- tauntaun [~Antoninus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:55:36 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 22:55:39 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:26 -!- svankie [~svankie@152-55-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [] 22:59:57 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f77b6fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:00:06 pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-5f769c2a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 23:02:21 tronador_ [~guille@190.66.172.182] has joined #scheme 23:03:24 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.164.198.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:08:47 Intensity [6DFdL4rNTD@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #scheme 23:13:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-208-157.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:03 tauntaun [~Antoninus@64.134.66.212] has joined #scheme 23:33:37 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C4312A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:40:55 "Tom" Wingo? I totally missed the context. 23:49:05 All those Guilers are Toms.