00:00:11 That gives you pretty much all of the convenience of disjoint sum types in Haskell and in ML. 00:00:26 interesting! 00:00:38 But you still don't get the convenience of lumping up some union as a bunch of related variants. 00:00:48 And this is where that PLAI thing gets into the picture. 00:01:58 I'm not sure what state that code is in, but in my class I have exactly that -- a `define-type' thing that defines a few structs, and then there's a `cases' which is kind of like a `match' in ML -- it does the other part of what you get in those languages. 00:02:22 Specifically, if you extend the type definition with a new variant, then all uses of that type in a `cases' will get a syntax error about the new addition. 00:02:22 hrm 00:02:29 I think I still have a problem though 00:02:46 Or alternatively, if you have some case that is covered twice, you'll get an error saying that there's some unreachable code. 00:02:50 Yes? 00:02:52 there is a cycle in my type definitions, which the documentation for DEFINE-TYPE appears to say is forbidden 00:03:03 e.g. Type = ... | Arrow Type Type 00:03:14 Which `define-type' are you talking about? 00:03:23 http://docs.racket-lang.org/ts-reference/index.html#(form._((lib._typed/racket/base..rkt)._define-type)) 00:03:24 cammcad [~cammcad@c-24-18-16-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:04:29 I don't remember what `define-type' does in that particular case, but you can definitely get cycles. 00:04:34 in practice that appears not to cause problems 00:04:36 You'd use a `Rec' type for that. 00:04:55 Something like (Rec x (U (Arrow x x) ...stuff...)) 00:05:05 (I just tried (define-type Expr (U Binop Number)) with (struct: Binop ((op : Symbol) (left : Expr) (right : Expr))) and it worked) 00:05:21 I don't seem to even need Rec 00:05:59 although I could generalize Arrow (?) and then I would need Rec 00:06:17 In my course language, I think that I have a similar type definition where (roughly speaking) something like (define-type name t) is the same as (define-type name (Rec name t)) -- but I thinkt that Sam had some issues with that. 00:06:37 hrm 00:06:43 I will play with this and see what happens 00:06:47 it looks promising, though 00:07:39 Yeah, it takes a while to get used to TR -- especially for people who are used to HM languages. 00:08:01 This extra freedom in types is something that you just don't have in those languages. 00:11:14 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:04 *elly* was raised on HM 00:12:28 -!- cammcad [~cammcad@c-24-18-16-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #scheme 00:12:32 having to define all the arms of 'expr' separately is a bit annoying, though 00:12:57 e.g. the equivalent of data Expr = Unop Expr | Binop Expr Expr | ... has me define Unop, then Binop, then Expr 00:13:01 I am not sure why that annoys me 00:13:31 ...you can write a macro... 00:13:35 I could perhaps work around that by saying (define-type Expr (U (List 'Unop Expr) (List 'Binop Expr Expr))) 00:13:39 Riastradh: yeah, I guess :\ 00:13:46 wait, no, that's what I should do 00:14:31 elly: Exactly what Riastradh said -- if it annoys you to define them separately, then do a macro. 00:14:39 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:14:49 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 00:14:52 ConcreteVitamin_ [~ConcreteV@183.37.126.146] has joined #scheme 00:14:55 As for you're being raised on HM -- that's really not surprising for anyone coming out of CMU... 00:15:37 (The freedom in defining types in a way that suits your need confuses HM people in amusing ways.) 00:16:14 What?? You mean the types don't dictate what your needs are?! 00:16:38 adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:16:39 Is there a single page HTML version of SICP? I'd like to read the book on my Kindle. 00:17:19 the HM people live in this curiously bondage-and-discipline place where the problems they can think about are limited to the ones their type system admits 00:17:20 -!- Marcux [~Adium@189.121.111.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:55 elly: Yeah, exactly. 00:18:00 It also confuses students. 00:18:12 For example, you could define an identity function as (Any -> Any) 00:18:16 And it will even work. 00:18:59 But you wouldn't be able to do something like (+ 1 (identity 3)) -- because that type is too generic, so in that expression the result is considered Any so it can't be treated as a number. 00:19:46 To make the point for students, I say that identity could even be defined with a type of just Any -- but that is so geenric that you won't even be able to apply it, since the type system doesn't even know that it's a function. 00:22:06 well, that works in the presence of polymorphic identity 00:22:19 if identity is a -> a, then that will be Num -> Num and you'll be fine 00:23:45 but things like e.g. APPLY are beyond reasoning about 00:25:50 -!- steshaw [~steshaw@60-240-111-207.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:59 my macro-fu remains very weak 00:26:30 steshaw [~steshaw@60-240-111-207.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 00:28:32 erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:34 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-79-54-138.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 00:34:23 hrm. 00:34:28 I wrote a macro that works to do this. 00:34:51 sweet! 00:47:09 DrAfk [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 00:51:53 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #scheme 00:56:04 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.148.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:16 test.rkt:10:36: Type Checker: Unbound type name quasisyntax in: quasisyntax 01:01:18 O_o. 01:01:42 (quasisyntaxing in a typed-racket module) 01:12:10 elly: This sounds like you've made a macro that *generates* 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incubot: (procedure? expand) 13:36:27 Error: unbound variable: expand 13:37:21 incubot: (define (x) (define (foo) (length bar)) (define bar `(1 2 3 ,foo)) (foo)) 13:37:21 # 13:37:30 incubot: (define (x) (define (foo) (length bar)) (define bar `(1 2 3 ,foo)) (foo)) (x) 13:37:31 4 13:47:50 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:18 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:26 adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-201-90.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 14:04:13 -!- adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-201-90.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:04:19 aisa [~aisa@86.sub-69-96-208.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 14:04:58 adarnimrod [~nimrod@bzq-79-177-201-90.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 14:05:02 f8l [~f8l@87.205.27.57] has joined #scheme 14:05:40 aisa_ [~aisa@150.sub-75-208-11.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 14:05:49 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit 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myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 17:24:23 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 17:25:54 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 17:28:14 good evening everyone 17:28:56 bohanlon_ [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has joined #scheme 17:30:22 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:01 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:32:01 -!- bohanlon_ is now known as bohanlon 17:33:10 -!- rien_ is now known as rien 17:33:44 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:27 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 17:44:18 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-23.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:48:18 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 17:54:50 pytho [959fd3f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.159.211.241] has joined #scheme 18:01:00 -!- pytho [959fd3f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.159.211.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:01:15 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@66.170.231.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:25 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:04 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 18:05:21 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:46 Harrold [~quassel@dhcp-101-110.hpsc-staff.carleton.ca] has joined #scheme 18:11:22 when I have a list which contains 3 strings per entry, how can I add a new entry to the list? 18:12:12 -!- joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:48 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:20:50 Harrold: If you're adding it to the front, just use CONS. 18:21:20 cky: doesn't matter as long as I somehow append 18:21:51 rudybot: (define lst '("foo" "bar" "baz")) 18:21:51 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 18:21:51 cky: Done. 18:21:57 rudybot: (cons "qux" lst) 18:21:57 cky: ; Value: ("qux" "foo" "bar" "baz") 18:22:59 I have to say those 3 entries are constructed 18:23:11 Harrold: That doesn't matter. 18:23:15 oh ok 18:23:30 rudybot: (cons "qux" (cons "foo" (cons "bar" (cons "baz" '())))) 18:23:30 cky: ; Value: ("qux" "foo" "bar" "baz") 18:23:34 *shrug* 18:23:44 mmc1 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 18:25:14 ah 18:25:19 got it 18:25:21 thanks cky 18:25:23 :-D 18:26:05 I actually had it right 18:26:08 I was just using it wrong 18:27:37 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:29:48 corruptmemory [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 18:32:30 -!- aisa_ [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:42 aisa 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[~lowscaloo@n112119181212.netvigator.com] has joined #scheme 23:48:46 hi everyone, i'm trying to create a list that has parenthesis in it.. but everytime i try to wrap parens around parts in the list, scheme tries to evaluate them. is there a way to do this? 23:49:08 pytho: there is no parenthesis data type in scheme. 23:49:13 What do you want to do? 23:49:32 You can use quote to prevent evaluation. 23:49:39 (quote (a b c)) --> (a b c) 23:49:50 also abreviated as '(a b c) --> (a b c) 23:50:17 hmm that may be the way. 23:50:34 i just wanted to make a list of numbers that have parens wrapped around them 23:51:05 You may make a list of list: (list (list 1) (list 42) (list 3)) 23:51:10 rudybot: (list (list 1) (list 42) (list 3)) 23:51:11 pjb: your sandbox is ready 23:51:11 pjb: ; Value: ((1) (42) (3)) 23:51:24 But there is no parentheses there. 23:51:28 Only pairs. 23:52:53 well i'm supposed to use cons to create a list that includes ((6) (7) (8)) 23:53:02 list uses cons. 23:53:08 yeah 23:53:11 But you can also use cons directly. 23:53:22 but when i wrap parens around the numbers i get an error 23:53:34 There is no parenthesis in scheme. 23:53:46 rudybot: (cons (cons 1 nil) (cons (cons 42 nil) (cons (cons 3 nil) nil))) 23:53:47 pjb: error: reference to undefined identifier: nil 23:53:52 teurastaja [~user@modemcable182.177-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:53:52 rudybot: (define nil '()) 23:53:52 pjb: Done. 23:53:53 rudybot: (cons (cons 1 nil) (cons (cons 42 nil) (cons (cons 3 nil) nil))) 23:53:53 pjb: ; Value: ((1) (42) (3)) 23:54:14 what's nil? 23:54:17 rudybot: (define nil '()) 23:54:17 pjb: Done. 23:54:24 aaah 23:54:26 i see 23:54:34 (He's a Lisper) 23:54:40 the common list empty list 23:54:42 I'm sorry. 23:54:45 *lisp 23:54:49 lol 23:54:57 It's okay, pjb, I think you're awesome anyway. :-) 23:56:04 thanks, you saved me a lot of time :D 23:57:59 anyone made some crazy definition about random stuff that made sense? 23:58:03 i want examples 23:58:26 tronador_ [~guille@190.253.154.71] has joined #scheme 23:58:43 i want creative boredom 23:59:55 http://www.randomwebsite.com/