00:00:31 blueadept [~blueadept@cpe-24-160-96-254.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:01:01 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-227.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:16:23 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 00:32:33 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #scheme 00:32:53 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-255-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:32:56 -!- sanduz2 [~sanduz2@75-149-186-118-Miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:40:11 -!- bitweiler [~bitweiler@adsl-99-40-239-167.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:56 -!- mwolfe [~mwolfe@corona.cornerturn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:58 -!- jl_2 [~jl_2@184-96-199-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:53:51 bokr [~eduska@109.110.41.50] has joined #scheme 00:57:56 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:01:46 haole [~ivan@189.103.20.37] has joined #scheme 01:02:09 how do i load srfi in gambit scheme? if i try to use (use) procedure, it says use is an unbound variable 01:03:08 load? 01:04:25 lewis1711: i'm used to plt (racket), and with it i need to do something like (require srfi/13) 01:04:30 nasstop [~hobo@cpe-74-69-38-24.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:11:05 haole: gambit doesn't have a module system 01:13:04 Are there any packages for doing math/science with scheme....something like Scipy/Numpy in python? 01:21:50 -!- nasstop [~hobo@cpe-74-69-38-24.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:23:03 xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-lcqujszsvjdzmdbg] has joined #scheme 01:29:25 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:29:36 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 01:33:46 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@227.23.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:45:34 sjamaan: As Riastradh said, the syntax-rules issue in question is an error in R5RS. Implementations are free to support it as an extension, but unless you think it should be supported by all implementations then there's nothing for the WG to discuss. 01:45:57 -!- xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-lcqujszsvjdzmdbg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:13 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 01:48:27 I hope that I didn't miss anything except stupid assertions 01:48:27 that you can't write device drivers in CL. 01:50:04 why would you want to?:P 01:50:30 Because sometimes it is faster than doing it in C. 01:51:00 *ASau* did many strange things in his life. 01:52:46 phao [~phao@189.107.151.115] has joined #scheme 01:54:21 -!- kuribas [~user@94-226-138-116.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:55:46 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.151.115] has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:45 phao [~phao@189.107.130.16] has joined #scheme 02:01:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:04:47 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:09:28 qhe [~qhe2@192.55.54.42] has joined #scheme 02:14:04 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 02:24:04 -!- githogori [~githogori@23.sub-75-208-232.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:03 xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-dalpxdhndogqwmts] has joined #scheme 02:31:00 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-250-194.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:36 ASau [~user@95-26-159-247.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 02:31:51 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:41:05 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 02:49:06 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-iaaxmvisyuroszvx] has joined #scheme 02:49:06 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-iaaxmvisyuroszvx] has quit [Changing host] 02:49:06 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 03:16:57 -!- haole [~ivan@189.103.20.37] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:17:30 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:27 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:29 Azuvix [~james@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 03:32:19 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 03:35:07 -!- tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:14 Intensity [6ndHX9dVt7@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #scheme 03:48:01 ASau` [~user@95-27-211-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 03:49:26 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-159-247.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:51:37 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:52:34 timj_ [~timj@e176197250.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:56:58 -!- timj [~timj@e176193235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:58:38 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:00:29 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 04:03:47 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 04:24:23 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 04:29:23 -!- Azuvix [~james@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:10 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:35:00 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 04:46:20 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:56:14 -!- meltingwax [~meltingwa@rapids.dreamhost.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:38 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:03:10 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:38 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:23:51 Haha 05:24:00 Crazy stuff from htdp 05:24:06 defining a name to an image in drscheme 05:24:15 *shrug* 05:24:26 try DrTime; there are values in that language that change as time passes. 05:24:33 s/DrTime/FrTime/ 05:25:46 offby1, have you read htdp? I wanna read it, but I get the impression that up to some point, I won't learn anything new 05:26:07 phao: Why don't you read it and see if that's the case? 05:26:22 that's what I wanna avoid 05:26:30 not the whole book 05:26:33 but the parts I already know 05:26:38 the book is freaking huge 05:27:06 phao: I've only glanced at it 05:27:24 I once glanced at someone who glanced at it. 05:27:39 *gnomon* glances in the general direction of offby1 05:28:03 I once had a martini whose glass was stored next to a photograph of a bottle of vermouth 05:28:37 I once killed a martini just to watch it dry. 05:29:09 *gnomon* rummages through phao's pockets for candy 05:30:21 phao: Skimming helps you identify the parts you already know, amirite? 05:33:31 bitweiler [~bitweiler@adsl-99-40-239-167.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:35:28 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:39:37 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:39:41 DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 05:54:13 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:57:05 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-112.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:58:55 phao_ [~phao@189.107.138.153] has joined #scheme 05:59:10 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.130.16] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:59:12 -!- phao_ is now known as phao 06:10:28 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@cpe-24-160-96-254.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:28:25 -!- user17 [~user@p5B2A8592.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:34:49 did you guys have any idea that the IETF puts out, in addition to RFCs, FYIs? http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1150 06:35:23 for some reason, that struck me as weird. 06:37:22 ah, they're some sort of RFC-subset: "Some informational RFCs form the subseries for your information (FYI). While rarely added to today, some old FYIs are still interesting, for example, FYI 18 (RFC 1983), the Internet User's Glossary." 06:39:35 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:08 user17 [~user@p5B2A9D2B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 06:40:38 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-112.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:57 -!- bitweiler [~bitweiler@adsl-99-40-239-167.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 07:14:12 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:17:18 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:31:22 litchie [~user@119.80.113.34] has joined #scheme 08:04:07 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #scheme 08:14:09 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 08:24:42 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 08:31:56 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:37:48 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:42:27 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 08:44:40 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:46:14 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:14 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 08:54:34 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-110.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 09:03:38 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:07:14 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@CPE001dba06b84c-CM0026f3358955.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:09:32 ohwow [~oh-wow@91.79.51.185] has joined #scheme 09:12:20 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 09:21:09 -!- sid3k [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:08 -!- rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:26:54 rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 09:28:00 slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has joined #scheme 09:33:09 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 09:45:32 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:54 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 09:48:50 -!- xwl_ [~wixu@nat/nokia/x-dalpxdhndogqwmts] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:14:27 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 10:16:21 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-110.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:16:23 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:44 -!- ASau` [~user@95-27-211-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: reboot] 10:23:05 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 10:23:05 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 10:23:05 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 10:25:51 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 10:29:50 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 10:31:22 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:32:05 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:32:24 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 10:33:48 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-108-141.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 10:34:36 ASau [~user@95-27-211-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 10:38:16 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-211-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:36 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:55 Riastradh: do you have an example of your transformation of (foo (a ...) (b ...)) into (zot (a b ...) ...) ? 10:42:39 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:48:21 ASau [~user@95-27-211-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 10:49:50 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50:15 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 10:50:15 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:50:15 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 10:51:42 -!- qhe [~qhe2@192.55.54.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:51:56 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-27-243.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 10:52:32 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:56:22 good day everyone 11:09:10 -!- ohwow [~oh-wow@91.79.51.185] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:10:41 -!- adu 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[~zevarito@r186-48-212-2.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 13:10:45 -!- zevarito [~zevarito@r186-48-213-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:17 -!- MapMan [mapman@2001:470:1f0a:120e::fe] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:35:02 -!- wisey [~Steven@host86-150-108-29.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:35:44 MapMan [mapman@2001:470:1f0a:120e::fe] has joined #scheme 13:41:08 nasstop [~cjn0496@eedept-4150adiml6.rit.edu] has joined #scheme 13:48:55 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.177.88.67] has joined #scheme 13:50:06 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 13:50:43 yorick [yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-xgpbrdbwagyziiop] has joined #scheme 13:51:05 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 13:51:15 Is anyone here familiar with Land of Lisp...do you think I could go through the book in scheme? 13:51:31 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 13:51:37 rien_ 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[~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-213.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 14:37:07 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:38:38 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:33 borism [~boris@ec2-79-125-58-77.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 14:48:16 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #scheme 14:53:16 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:19 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 14:57:21 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 14:57:52 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 15:00:43 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 15:06:04 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:09:28 I've created this memoize, but the code with it is getting slower instead of, what I expected, faster. 15:09:34 Is there a problem with this memoize? http://pastebin.com/wiS2TnFd 15:12:11 phao: Associative lists are O(n) lookup. How large is your alist? 15:12:21 i.e., how many argument sets are you trying to memoise? 15:12:46 Beyond a certain number, you will have to use a more scalable data structure, like a hashtable. 15:12:52 some hundreds of elements 15:13:01 Yeah, you probably need to use a hashtable, then. 15:14:53 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:23:36 well 15:23:59 erjiang [~erjiang@140-182-131-167.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 15:24:04 ok... read some stuff on srfi-69 and did this: http://pastebin.com/zjb8D7ih 15:24:39 since I've never used hashtables before, I just know more or less how they work, I may be doing things wrong in that code 15:24:52 the final result is: the overall program is much slower 15:40:10 femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-37-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 15:42:55 what are you memoizing ? 15:43:23 lists of arguments (list of numbers) into many different things (normally numbers or list of numbers) 15:43:52 Can you be more specific? 15:44:04 What kind of function are you caching the results for? 15:44:56 ah ok 15:45:22 (note: this conversation is more active in #chicken ;) 15:45:33 yes hehe 15:45:34 rien_: Thanks for the heads-up. 15:45:39 (wait a moment) 15:45:40 np 15:46:31 http://ix.io/1pd 15:46:43 this program calculates the sum of squares of the digits of a number 15:46:55 so given a number, it memoizes that sum 15:46:58 -!- zevarito_ [~zevarito@r186-48-236-114.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #scheme 15:47:09 also, it memoizes repeating that process 15:47:35 (sum n) (sum (sum n)) (sum (sum (sum n))) until that starts cycling 15:47:49 it stores n => 15:47:57 That sounds seriously complicated. Here's how I'd implement it: 15:49:19 rudybot: (define (for-each-digit f x) (do ((x x (quotient x 10))) ((zero? x)) (f (remainder x 10)))) 15:49:20 cky: your r5rs sandbox is ready 15:49:20 cky: Done. 15:49:24 rudybot: init racket 15:49:25 cky: your racket sandbox is ready 15:49:27 rudybot: (define (for-each-digit f x) (do ((x x (quotient x 10))) ((zero? x)) (f (remainder x 10)))) 15:49:27 cky: Done. 15:49:32 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:49:48 Hmm, wait. 15:50:05 rudybot: (require srfi/1) 15:50:05 cky: Done. 15:51:00 rudybot: (define (map-digit f x) (unfold-right zero? (lambda (x) (f (remainder x 10))) (lambda (x) (quotient x 10)) x)) 15:51:00 cky: Done. 15:51:07 rudybot: (map-digit add1 1234) 15:51:08 cky: ; Value: (2 3 4 5) 15:51:12 Perfect. 15:51:26 rudybot: (define (square x) (* x x)) 15:51:26 cky: Done. 15:51:38 rudybot: (define (sum lst) (reduce + 0 lst)) 15:51:38 cky: Done. 15:52:05 rudybot: (define (sum-of-squares x) (sum (map-digit square x))) 15:52:05 cky: Done. 15:52:21 rudybot: (map sum-of-squares 0 178 31 199) 15:52:21 cky: error: null-list?: argument out of domain 0 15:52:32 Oops. 15:52:43 rudybot: (sum '(1 2 3 4)) 15:52:43 cky: ; Value: 10 15:52:57 rudybot: (map sum-of-squares '(0 178 31 199)) 15:52:57 cky: ; Value: (0 114 10 163) 15:53:07 phao: Are those the results you expect? 15:53:11 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [Quit: rpg] 15:53:24 Trying to use memoisation is totally the wrong approach for calculating the sums of squares of digits. 15:53:46 memoization is just to avoid recalculating them 15:54:34 But the calculation is not the slow part. 15:54:43 You can see it's calculated the stuff pretty quickly. 15:55:46 Try to memoise things like the set of digits that make up a number, is a total waste of time. 15:56:02 why? 15:56:13 Because you seldom get the same inputs. 15:56:28 It's not like you're making digits of 1234 a hundred times. 15:56:34 It's a different number each time, right? 15:57:55 yeah, but I figured that recursive calls would do many 15:58:00 'already done' computations. 15:58:43 What recursive? 15:59:01 in set-of-suns 15:59:28 but you're right, it rarely is the same input 16:01:01 phao: Also, your set-of-sums function also uses O(n) lookups. 16:01:16 You can also use a hashtable for sets with amortised O(1) lookups. 16:01:27 I've just found some problems in it 16:01:54 Here. I'll write an implementation, and you can see how it compares performance-wise. :-) 16:03:10 -!- offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:03:10 offby1` [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 16:03:41 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@140-182-131-167.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:04:12 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 16:04:45 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 16:06:23 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 16:06:48 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-227-177.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 16:09:36 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-27-243.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:18 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 16:12:42 hkBst, er, do you mean something like (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo (a ...) (b ...)) '((a b ...) ...)))), or something like (foo (1 2 3) (a b)) => '((1 a b) (2 a b) (3 a b)), or...? 16:14:36 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:44 Riastradh: I meant the latter. 16:14:48 so thanks 16:14:50 phao: The iterative sums of squares thing could probably do with memoisation. 16:14:55 phao: I'm trying to think of a good way to do it, though. 16:15:46 I think you should memoize n => (set-of-sums n) 16:16:00 Well, there's a smart way to do it, and a not-so-smart way to do it. 16:16:26 I think I'd know how to do it properly if I understood hashtables 16:16:44 It's a map structure. Does that help? :-) 16:16:52 not quite 16:17:08 all I know is that it should provide O(1) access 16:17:16 but it doesn't seem like it's doing that in the code I wrote 16:17:21 and I have no clue why 16:17:47 -!- hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:55 This is what I mean by, I think you're probably memoising the wrong thing. 16:19:28 Is this the result you get? (iterative-sum-of-squares 1234) => (145 89 81 65 61 58 42 37 30 20 16 9 4) 16:19:36 well 16:19:41 Just checking that we're getting comparable results. 16:19:44 GOOD! 16:19:55 memoizing set-of-sums improved speed 16:19:59 you were right 16:20:05 I was just memoizing the wrong stuff 16:20:07 Cool. :-) 16:20:10 about your question 16:20:58 (set-of-sums 1234) 16:20:58 (16 4 20 42 145 89 58 37 61 65 81 9 30) 16:21:09 Right, same results. :-) 16:21:09 I think they're the same set, right? 16:21:11 Yep. 16:21:24 Well, in the minimum, you can just use the "min" function. 16:21:41 rudybot: (apply min '(16 4 20 42 145 89 58 37 61 65 81 9 30)) 16:21:42 cky: ; Value: 4 16:21:55 Which seems to be better than your approach of starting from 0 and looking for items in the list. 16:22:17 that's not the right result 16:22:51 Okay, am I missing something.... 16:23:26 Oh! 16:23:27 you should generate the smallest x 16:23:29 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:40 You want to find the smallest number for which the sum-of-squares includes itself. 16:23:44 such that a given 'n' is in (set-of-sums x) 16:23:52 Gotcha. 16:24:01 Okay then. What you have is probably fine. 16:24:34 Well, good job. It sounds like you got it nailed. :-) 16:24:51 phao: is this sum-of-squares problem from Project Euler? 16:25:07 -!- Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-227-177.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:11 this is from topcoder 16:25:15 no clue what project euler is 16:25:15 Hahahahahaha. 16:25:29 phao: Project Euler is awesomesauce. It has >250 maths problems you solve by computer. 16:25:53 end result here, w/ memoization = 7s 16:25:57 w/o memoization = 15s 16:26:24 Nice. :-) 16:26:49 sounds vaguely similar. 16:27:01 input is small offby1 16:28:09 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:31:03 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has left #scheme 16:31:38 Azuvix [~james@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 16:33:13 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.138.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:18 phao: this seems quite fast without memoization: https://gist.github.com/784706 16:43:11 Fancy. 16:43:35 mwolfe [~mwolfe@corona.cornerturn.com] has joined #scheme 16:44:07 phao [~phao@189.12.249.160] has joined #scheme 16:46:10 plain, in my humble opinion. 16:46:22 it uses a sophisticated technique that I like to call "cheating" 16:46:32 namely, have someone else do as much of the work as possible 16:46:42 in my case, Jens Axel Sogaard 16:46:44 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has joined #scheme 16:46:44 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has quit [Changing host] 16:46:44 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 16:46:57 :-) 16:48:36 dunno what the problem actually says. I assume it's "find the longest such cycle among the first million integers" 16:48:44 that would indeed suggest memoization 16:51:06 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-37-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:21 offby1: I think phao's specific problem is to find the smallest x for which the set of iterative sums of squares contains x. 16:51:34 offby1: However, finding the longest cycle sounds fun too. :-) 16:51:57 you guys actually LIKE those kinds of problems? 16:51:59 hm, the way I wrote it, every set contains x 16:52:10 phao: yes. I like to occasionally do easy ones 16:53:43 phao: do you have a URL for the definition of the problem? I'm now intrigued. 16:53:57 phao: Think of it as "code kata". 16:54:03 (Seriously overhyped term, but.) 16:54:12 http://www.topcoder.com/stat?c=problem_statement&pm=163 16:54:14 tx 16:54:29 phao: But seriously, that's how experienced programmers keep their programming wits sharp. 16:54:31 crap, I need to register :-| 16:54:38 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=SJrPcDSZ 16:54:39 offby1, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=SJrPcDSZ 16:54:55 tx 16:55:05 cky, yeah... I think I like that kind of stuff too -- since I spent 3 more hours than I should in it 16:55:16 -!- DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55:31 Hahahahahaha. 16:55:47 As you can see from offby1's code, it's really quick to write up if you know what you're doing. :-) 16:55:47 offby1, there's a standard TLA^WSLA for that -- FRRYYY, often turned into an NLA in conjunction with the NYT, making it NYTFRRYYY. It's always good to tag URIs with that if appropriate. 16:56:07 where is offby1 code? 16:56:11 *offby1* 's eyes cross 16:56:22 phao: https://gist.github.com/784706 16:56:36 it's incomplete, since I didn't know the complete problem definition 16:56:43 "New York Times free registration required ... ... ..."? 16:56:56 yada yada yada 16:57:00 Nice. 16:57:03 it says "note T(x) may not necessarily contain x". That surprises me. I thought, by definition, the set would contain x 16:57:33 Riastradh: oh :) Never encountered those particular acronyms (or abbreviations). 16:57:53 I guess I need to spend more time on IRC! 16:58:20 I think I first came across NYTFRRYYY on Slashdot. 16:58:55 cky pasted "Iterative sums of squares" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/118761 16:59:02 Oh wow. lisppaste is alive! 16:59:17 Yay! 16:59:21 offby1: Anyway, that's my implementation. (Sorry, it's in Chicken syntax. I'm sure you can easily adapt that to Racket. :_P) 16:59:36 It doesn't memoise or anything like that yet, though. 17:01:59 phao: Feel free to look at that link too. :-P 17:03:23 phao: In particular, I seriously cheat with the "square" function. 17:03:36 Given that function is called with numbers with a severely restricted domain. 17:05:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-213.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:54 phao: https://gist.github.com/784706 <-- four seconds to find the answer for 112 17:07:18 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:43 cky: whatcha got against (apply + lst)) ? 17:08:01 y'all prematurely optimizing, in my humble opinion. 17:10:11 -!- mao- [mao@lost.my.eye.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:10:24 If you didn't get LST as an argument list, there's a good chance it will fail. 17:12:10 are you talking to me, or to cky? 17:12:27 To you. 17:12:29 (apply + lst)will indeed fail if lst is too long 17:12:39 but that doesn't seem to be a problem in practice :) 17:12:45 *offby1* glances around nervously. 17:15:11 offby1, mine, to find the answer for 122 is 1.3s 17:15:34 I liked that square function of yours cky 17:15:59 and 17:16:08 I don't understand many of your code 17:16:15 femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-37-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 17:16:34 Hahahahahaha. 17:16:57 phao: ooh, mine's slow. Although perhaps my machine is slow. 17:17:03 offby1: I have nothing against (apply + lst) (apart from the argument length limit thing Riastradh mentioned), but, my motor memory makes me say (reduce + 0 lst). 17:17:09 ha 17:17:48 offby1, yours is compiled or interpreted? 17:17:53 both 17:18:02 When I comment out the "print", it's faster: real 0m1.990s user 0m1.808s sys 0m0.152s 17:18:07 1.3s is my interpreted time 17:18:22 compiled is 0.14s 17:18:28 ooh 17:18:46 I really have to eat something 17:18:48 cya 17:18:50 thx for helping 17:18:51 funny, so do I 17:19:01 helping? I wasn't helping; I was competing 17:20:01 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:20:19 :-P 17:22:14 -!- slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-141.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:30:32 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:59 elderK1 [~k@222-152-91-111.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 17:32:12 Yo, homies! 17:32:12 :P 17:32:33 -!- elderK1 [~k@222-152-91-111.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:33 elderK1 [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 17:32:46 -!- elderK1 is now known as elderK 17:45:46 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:53:14 towodo [~anonymous@209-6-120-139.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:57:00 -!- Azuvix [~james@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:49 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:36 -!- phao [~phao@189.12.249.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07:58 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:08 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:09:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-141.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-141.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:12:16 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:13:43 wisey [~Steven@host86-150-108-29.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 18:15:09 \o/ 18:15:22 phao [~phao@189.12.250.223] has joined #scheme 18:16:43 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 18:17:00 choas [~lars@p5792CDEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:17:53 <_p4bl0> offby1: I don't know why you're \o/ing, but \o/ for me too! 18:18:59 <_p4bl0> (Guy Steele just told me he'll have an answer in a day or two for my internship application to work in the FOrtress research group) 18:19:00 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #scheme 18:19:07 just waving at elderK 18:19:14 _p4bl0: cool! 18:19:18 <_p4bl0> offby1: yeah 18:19:21 Celebrity spotting! 18:19:50 -!- phao [~phao@189.12.250.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:20:05 <_p4bl0> offby1: that's a plus, but the real cool stuff is research on programming languages 18:20:44 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 18:21:09 <_p4bl0> offby1: I would also enjoy doing my internship in a university CS lab, but it's much more difficult to get paid there, and I couldn't afford living in the US without being paid. 18:23:07 <_p4bl0> offby1: however if it's not working out at the Sun Labs I'll try to contact people working on Racket for instance, but I've been told that it would really be difficult to get paid for this kind of internship... :-/ 18:25:27 <_p4bl0> Oh! there seems to be a cool prog. lang. research group at Indiana U too :-) 18:25:50 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:29:13 <_p4bl0> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mleone/language-people.html <-- most of these links seems to be dead :-/ 18:29:35 -!- duncanm [~duncan@64.22.124.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:40 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #scheme 18:31:56 *elderK* waves back at offby1 :) 18:35:52 pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has joined #scheme 18:35:52 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has quit [Changing host] 18:35:52 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 18:36:38 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:36:44 -!- dlouhy [~jdlouhy@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:37:17 -!- gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:38:20 -!- 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[~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:02:08 -!- rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:02:31 rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 19:22:52 -!- martin_hex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:20 accel [~accel@unaffiliated/accel] has joined #scheme 19:30:10 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:30:12 Suppose I have C code: struct Vec3 { double x, y, z; int id; } ; struct Quat { double w, x, y, z }; Vec3 v_arr[100]; What scheme will let me create a v_arr that is 100 continuous Vec3 elements in memory? 19:30:45 -!- FillIRC is now known as Fill 19:30:49 i.e. I want to use a scheme that gives me sufficient low level control over how memory is laid out (this isn't fighting GC; this is just having typed structs be continuous; and arrays be cnotinuous) 19:30:59 -!- Fill [~Fill@static.195.170.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Changing host] 19:30:59 Fill [~Fill@unaffiliated/fill] has joined #scheme 19:31:35 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:34:30 accel: That is in the domain of FFIs, surely. 19:35:05 you can use embedded C for that, no? 19:35:17 yeah; but I'd prefer to write this code in scheme 19:35:17 accel: I'm not au fait enough with any FFI to answer that question, but, probably, if you make the suitable record ("struct") types and stow instances of these record types in a vector, then the FFI should handle the necessary packing for you. 19:35:36 anything i should look into, besides gambit & chicken? 19:35:41 Racket. 19:35:55 man; people keep on telling me about plt scheme 19:36:00 isn't it one of the most bloated implementations ever? 19:36:03 No. 19:36:21 RACKET: BRACKETS without the BS. :-P 19:36:23 (Har har.) 19:37:09 lol 19:37:18 racket isn't bloated, it's full featured. 19:37:40 oprah isn't fat, she's plump. 19:37:46 accel: chicken can be quite light if you eat small pieces of the chest only. 19:37:50 *mario-goulart* trolls 19:37:59 *rien_* loves chicken breast 19:39:30 *cky* feeds rien_ some chicken sashimi. :-D 19:39:56 ick 19:40:52 ick seconded 19:41:09 sorry cky :) 19:41:26 -!- accel [~accel@unaffiliated/accel] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:44:22 j-invariant [~aaaa@unaffiliated/j-invariant] has joined #scheme 19:44:48 scheme is the best language because it's honest 19:44:54 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:45:11 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:45:28 "the best language" is a really silly concept 19:45:41 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:19 the best language is dwim /oldjoke 19:53:40 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 19:59:34 so I have the following line of code: (error "MEANINGFUL ERROR MESSAGE HERE!") 19:59:58 That doesn't seem very meaningful. 20:00:11 well yeah that's what I want to fix :P I left it that way because I don't know how to do this next bit 20:00:12 rofl 20:00:24 it didn't matter but now it is stelling me this every time I do something wrong, so I need more niformation 20:00:48 I would like to do something like (error (list 'error 'you 'have 'not 'defined name)) I guess 20:01:00 but obviously that's not a string 20:01:12 The conventional way to do that is to write (error "You have not defined the name:" name) 20:01:36 j-invariant: You can append random terms after the initial string describing the error. 20:02:39 thanks! this is great 20:02:43 can I just keep adding stuff 20:02:49 (error "foo" bar "baz" quux) 20:03:19 schmir [~schmir@p54A90E5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:03:21 Caleb-- [~caleb@109.66.201.149] has joined #scheme 20:03:22 -!- rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:03:34 also is there a way to describe the sort of object? Like I know about integer? list? etc.. but I want to get the symbol 'integer or 'list or whatever it is 20:03:36 afaik, yes, but you should read the docs for your implementation first to see what it permits. 20:03:47 so then I could claim: No implementation of FOO for BAR 20:03:48 rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 20:04:33 I have racket 20:05:26 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-37-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05:36 femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-37-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:06:22 there is a page in the manual for each data type but nothing about ALL data types 20:07:28 What is the rule for choosing the symbol, j-invariant? 20:07:33 Maybe someone familiar with racket can help. Most schemes don't have a typeof function, so you're normally stuck rolling your own (which is fine, since you've probably rolled your own type system anyways). 20:07:54 Should () give NIL, or LIST? Should (A . ()) give PAIR or LIST? Should (A . B) give PAIR or LIST? 20:08:42 Riastradh: any one of those options is great, I just want a rough description of the type of object: The problem is I can't' just write a big COND thing because I want to include user defined types as well 20:08:44 Should #(1 2 3) give (VECTOR-OF (UNSIGNED-BYTE 2)) or IMMUTABLE-VECTOR or VECTOR? 20:09:56 How about just doing (error "No implementation of FOO for object:" object), rather than digesting OBJECT into some particular notion of its type or representation? 20:10:20 Riastradh: I have a problem with that but maybe I can fix it 20:10:38 Riastradh: for a lot of objects it just prints # but I there may be a way to fix I can try it out 20:19:02 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90E5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:03 I don't get why racket sometimes prints out pictures and sometimes prints out #. I want it to print the picture 20:20:17 schmir [~schmir@p54A90E5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:21:48 -!- bitweiler [~bitweiler@adsl-99-40-239-167.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:05 t's fprintf that doesn't do it 20:24:06 is there a way to get an output port for the REPL so I can fprintf a picture to it? 20:25:45 j-invariant: which scheme are you using? 20:25:48 Racket 20:26:13 mathk_ [~mathk@194.177.62.150] has joined #scheme 20:26:42 once my browser decides to load the page I can help you :) 20:27:29 j-invariant: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/Writing.html?q=fmt&q=printf#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._format%29%29 20:27:30 http://tinyurl.com/694hgcw 20:27:36 j-invariant: format is your answer 20:27:53 or fprintf 20:27:57 it is all on that page 20:28:09 the output port is (current-output-port) 20:28:51 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-37-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:28 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:40 askhader_ [~askhader@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 20:30:02 even with that, when I do (fprintf (current-output-port) "~a" (latexify (list a b c))) I just get \langle9,2,2 \rangle 20:30:18 if I do (latexify (list a b c)) in the REPL I get the picture though 20:30:33 it must use something different than fprintf, well I guess it must 20:33:01 -!- askhader_ [~askhader@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:47 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90E5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:04 j-invariant: I am not sure what you want to get done? 20:38:59 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@211.177.88.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:10 phao [~phao@189.107.183.23] has joined #scheme 20:39:54 I can make a picture object in racket and when I do that in the REPL it shows the image 20:40:12 but if I try to print it, it just shows # 20:40:35 so I need a way to print pictures as pictures 20:41:49 j-invariant: Which one of write/display/print gives the desired behavior for (f (latexify (list a b c))) ? 20:41:51 hm isnt that a setting in the language window? 20:41:55 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:41:57 Obfuscate: none 20:42:10 jonrafkind: well it is slideshow language in one file but I use other languages in other files 20:42:53 j-invariant: You're out of luck then: something else is doing the formatting for you, and printf can't do anything about that. 20:43:16 ok 20:52:57 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #scheme 20:53:26 monoid [~tmo@adsl-76-193-181-154.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:53:29 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:34 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.183.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:50 -!- monoid [~tmo@adsl-76-193-181-154.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:55:20 -!- wbooze`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:55:52 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:59:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-247.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:59:51 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-247.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:04:36 -!- joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:51 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 21:08:41 chandler [~foo@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has joined #scheme 21:12:12 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has joined #scheme 21:12:12 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has quit [Changing host] 21:12:12 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 21:13:02 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:59 -!- nasstop [~cjn0496@eedept-4150adiml6.rit.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:19:52 erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has joined #scheme 21:21:47 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:25:00 Riastradh: Good work on the tarsnap find. 21:26:57 hm? 21:27:19 elly: http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2011-01-18-tarsnap-critical-security-bug.html 21:27:20 http://tinyurl.com/667qeod 21:27:25 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #scheme 21:29:21 Riastradh: oh my 21:30:05 Riastradh: Indeed, mad props. 21:30:18 Riastradh: I saw the link via Thomas Ptacek, and was reading this just now. 21:31:58 "people rolling their own crypto": a sad tale in 2,371 parts. 21:32:14 chandler, thanks. I have to say, though, that of what I saw in my (somewhat cursory) examination of Tarsnap, everything except the nonce bug looked sound to me. 21:33:37 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:41 I looked at the code (though admittedly not in the level of detail I'd call a full review) before this bug was introduced when I decided to start using it, and decided that it was probably more trustworthy than the other aspects of my system, and thus worth using. I don't think this bug changes that; hopefully with a bounty program he'll get a few more eyes on the source code. 21:33:58 elly: Someone has to roll it. 21:34:09 openssl already did that :( 21:34:13 That's not to say just anyone should be, but Colin isn't just anyone. 21:34:45 I mean, I don't think *anybody* without the resources to put dozens of reviewers on code should be implementing crypto 21:34:50 elly, Colin Percival seems competent enough to me to invoke crypto primitives. 21:35:09 competence and mistakes are almost orthogonal, I think 21:37:04 Also, Tarnsap uses OpenSSL for its implementation of the crypto primitives, and there is nothing higher-level in OpenSSL that would straightforwardly replace Tarsnap's application of them. 21:37:18 I don't think using OpenSSL will save you from nonce reuse in this case. I haven't used OpenSSL for CTR mode, so I'm not positive about that. 21:37:30 What Riastradh said. 21:38:10 ah, okay 21:38:27 I thought OpenSSL had a high-level "encrypt this stream for me" primitive 21:40:25 I'm not finding it at the moment, though that's not to say there isn't one. 21:43:10 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:45:28 You want to look for EVP_CIPHER. 21:46:16 Ah. 21:47:09 It's a very complicated API, though, and I don't even know whether it supports CTR mode. (My uncertainty probably arises from the incomplete and decrepit nature of OpenSSL's `documentation'.) 21:47:18 Heya elly, Riastradh 21:47:21 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:26 Hi. 21:47:42 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:25 wb aisa! 21:48:47 In any case, even if Colin Percival replaced his crypto_aesctr API by the EVP_CIPHER API, the transformation from crypto_aesctr_init(..., nonce, ...) to EVP_CIPHER_init(..., nonce, ...) wouldn't fix the real bug, which is that he wrote nonce instead of nonce++. 21:53:25 elderK: thx. My internet has been crap today, apparently. 21:54:45 No fun :( 21:54:50 Hope you werent downloading anything important. 21:55:29 Riastradh: that is the saddest thing 21:56:08 -!- mathk_ [~mathk@194.177.62.150] has left #scheme 21:58:44 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159852.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 21:59:13 schmir [~schmir@p54A9173D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:00:57 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:17 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@7.80.244.66.jest.smithvilledigital.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:01:48 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #scheme 22:20:24 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:06 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.223] has joined #scheme 22:29:24 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #scheme 22:33:17 -!- choas [~lars@p5792CDEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:36:15 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-40-237.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:02 -!- corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:56 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-40-237.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:47:09 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:20 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 22:52:07 corruptmemory [~jim@96.246.167.18] has joined #scheme 22:53:53 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-254-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 22:59:24 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:40 -!- f8l [~f8l@77-255-12-39.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: I love Weechat.] 23:20:06 sloyd pasted "Safe-for-space compositional force/delay, without lazy, using continuation marks." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/118773 23:20:27 foof: --^ 23:22:03 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #scheme 23:23:23 blueadept2 [~blueadept@cpe-24-160-96-254.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:24:45 sanduz2 [~sanduz2@75-149-186-118-Miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:42 "Reentering a promise may be legal in R5RS, but it's disgusting and I won't allow it" <--- lol 23:28:19 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-108-141.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:26 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:49 -!- mwolfe [~mwolfe@corona.cornerturn.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:30:21 mwolfe [~mwolfe@corona.cornerturn.com] has joined #scheme 23:38:34 -!- sanduz2 [~sanduz2@75-149-186-118-Miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:27 Azuvix [~james@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:41:59 metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has joined #scheme 23:51:21 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme