00:08:57 schmir [~schmir@p54A917F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:12:44 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A917F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:38 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-104.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:21:41 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:32:00 -!- choas [~lars@p578F695B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:41:14 _p4bl0 [~user@berthold.shebang.ws] has joined #scheme 00:54:08 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:47 -!- StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:47 -!- joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:56:18 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:59:13 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:59:25 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@93-80-107-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:46 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 01:11:21 wisey [~Steven@host86-150-108-29.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 01:19:36 incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:25:16 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 01:26:18 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:26:41 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 01:29:50 monoid_ [~tmo@76.193.181.154] has joined #scheme 01:30:38 lets assume I have a list literal, (define f '((lambda (x) 1) (lambda (x) 2))) 01:30:52 Why can't I say ((car f) 3) ? 01:31:53 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:27 monoid_: Because that's a list, not a lambda. 01:32:42 But, this works: 01:32:57 rudybot_: (define f `(,(lambda (x) (+ x 1)))) 01:32:57 cky: Done. 01:33:03 rudybot_: ((car f) 3) 01:33:03 cky: ; Value: 4 01:33:07 ah 01:33:12 What does the comma operator do? 01:33:22 <_p4bl0> unquote 01:33:26 I see 01:33:27 Thanks 01:33:43 monoid_: Unquote only works with quasiquote (`), not quote ('). 01:34:09 Thanks for emphasizing. 01:34:14 :-) 01:34:22 (I was going to apply it to the normal quote :P) 01:34:30 Yeah, that wouldn't work. :-P 01:35:47 Why hoesn't racket have MOD? 01:36:55 incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:37:12 j-invariant: What's mod? modulo? 01:37:21 like 7 mod 4 is 3 01:37:29 rudybot_: (modulo 7 4) 01:37:29 cky: ; Value: 3 01:37:31 oh right, modulo! 01:37:33 *shrug* 01:37:33 okay thanks 01:37:45 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-174-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:56 :-) 01:38:37 ASau [~user@89-178-174-41.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 01:39:49 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 01:39:51 aw dammit 01:40:10 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:40:33 Mmm? 01:41:46 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 01:42:38 I just realized that my thingy wont work out 01:42:43 this image display stuff 01:45:09 Hmm. 01:45:44 i have a way to render a polynomial as an image, and also a way to render modular arithmetic as an image 01:45:51 but there is no way to combine them 01:46:06 How does one define a list such that: 1. it comprises two lists 2. The first list is a list of two accessible numbers 3. The second list is a list of two usable functions? 01:46:09 maybe it can be done, I have an idea 01:46:25 I've been trying to do that, but I can't seem to get it right. 01:46:40 monoid_: what is an acessable number? 01:46:56 sanduz2 [~sanduz2@75-149-186-118-Miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 01:47:09 A number you could get by calling (car (car f)) (for example) and pass it to other functions 01:47:19 so just any number? Like 42 01:47:22 yeah 01:47:38 use the LIST procedure to create lists 01:47:44 like (LIST 42 12) 01:47:55 ah 01:47:58 I'll try that 01:51:58 Oh nvm, I figured out what I did wrong 01:52:13 I forgt that (cdr list) returns (elem), not elem 01:52:43 monoid_: Right; you need to use cadr to get elem. 01:54:46 rudybot_: (second (list 1 2 3)) 01:54:46 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 01:54:46 *offby1: ; Value: 2 01:55:03 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot 01:57:52 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:00:21 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:14 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:15 bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.40.239.167] has joined #scheme 02:15:53 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-55-129.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 02:19:00 What would the proper name for a key-value store be in scheme/lisp jargon? 02:19:28 key-value store is fine, no need to obfuscate terms 02:20:30 I was hoping for a one word generic term, such as map (C++) or dictionary (python), but not something quite as specific as hash-map. 02:23:51 'map' is understood in all languages, I think 02:25:11 except in assembly language 02:25:29 elly: well, map the hof and map the data structure is a bit confusing 02:26:11 If there's no better name, I can accept that, but I was hoping to avoid the term 'map' for the reason bremner gave. 02:28:25 `Dictionary' suggests that the keys are strings, ordered lexicographically. `Map' is generic and widely accepted in mathematics and programming languages. 02:29:05 Also, `map' is three letters long, whereas `dict' is an abbreviation yet longer than `map', and `dictionary' is too many letters long. 02:32:21 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:36:22 -!- joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:12 Heh, how handy. 02:39:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages_%28mapping%29 02:39:16 http://tinyurl.com/yqhg5q 02:41:04 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:41:39 -!- wes__ [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:48 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 02:46:30 the seasoned schemer is much cooler than the little schemer =) 02:46:38 http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/11jan/uf001429.gif 02:46:44 yep 02:50:08 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:51:02 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:54:27 eut [~m@cpe-24-24-136-239.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:59:11 -!- sanduz2 [~sanduz2@75-149-186-118-Miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:19:47 k04n_ [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:19:57 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:21:02 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:26 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:55 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:25:18 I have defined my object oriented programming system http://paste.lisp.org/display/118670 03:25:36 any co.mments? 03:28:28 also is there a procedure to turn '(a b c) and '+ into '(a + b + c)? 03:29:51 you could write such a procedure easily 03:30:41 it's not clear why this is a macro 03:31:16 elly: really? I thought it had to be macro 03:31:24 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #scheme 03:31:26 I don't see why 03:32:20 I use it like this, (define-generic-procedure (latexify object) deflatex) 03:32:27 then (deflatex integer? number->string) 03:32:38 and then I can call (latexify 3) 03:41:09 -!- jim__ [~jim@ool-18bbd5b2.static.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:45 -!- k04n_ [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:43:06 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 03:47:46 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-141.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:50:20 k04n_ [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-141.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:50:38 -!- em [~emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Quit: Smile! ] 03:52:25 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-141.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:52:44 timj__ [~timj@e176196005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:54:47 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] 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[~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-104.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 09:26:45 nilg`` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 09:26:47 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:22 Prometheus_ [~Prometheu@CPE0023cdd441d7-CM001947479c3c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 09:32:41 rudybot: (string->list "a") 09:32:45 Prometheus_: your sandbox is ready 09:32:45 Prometheus_: ; Value: (#\a) 09:49:52 -!- nilg`` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:11 -!- Prometheus_ [~Prometheu@CPE0023cdd441d7-CM001947479c3c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Prometheus_] 09:54:42 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 09:57:38 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-104.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:02:32 taeyun [~taeyun@59.4.64.176] has joined #scheme 10:03:00 HG` [~HG@xdslas084.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 10:03:13 hello 10:04:34 -!- rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:05:10 rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 10:11:12 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:11:17 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:13:27 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-244.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:13:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-244.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:16:25 -!- sanduz2 [~sanduz2@75-149-186-118-Miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:28:00 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-110-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 10:49:02 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:33 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:05 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 10:57:42 f8l [~f8l@77-255-12-39.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 11:14:15 -!- rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:32 rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 11:21:55 -!- taeyun [~taeyun@59.4.64.176] has left #scheme 11:27:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 11:33:09 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:48 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-250-194.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:48 ASau` [~user@93-80-250-194.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 11:42:21 k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:42:31 choas [~lars@p5792C76A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:44:18 -!- k04n [~k04n@cpe-76-175-192-194.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:50 Riastradh: I've tried to summarize my thoughts on the SRFI-45 issue in https://groups.google.com/group/scheme-reports-wg1/msg/604aed335a4bdc1e 11:51:04 -!- rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:20 rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 12:08:02 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslas084.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:23:16 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 12:34:47 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 12:44:46 dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 12:45:52 masm [~masm@2.80.153.27] has joined #scheme 12:55:04 harishtella [~harishtel@118.172.49.44.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has joined #scheme 12:56:02 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:58:01 Hello, I'm new here, wondering if anyone is working through SICP? Just got to Video 7/Chap 4 13:03:23 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.181.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:06:15 -!- harishtella [~harishtel@118.172.49.44.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has quit [Quit: harishtella] 13:17:49 harishtella [~harishtel@118.172.49.44.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has joined #scheme 13:19:15 cuartum [~Cuartum@89.Red-80-25-155.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:21:03 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 13:35:41 em [~emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:41:14 -!- harishtella [~harishtel@118.172.49.44.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has quit [Quit: harishtella] 13:51:41 -!- dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:51:55 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:58:51 tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has joined #scheme 14:11:53 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:12:05 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:33 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 14:28:59 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 14:29:44 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:31:09 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 15:03:17 bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.40.239.167] has joined #scheme 15:10:18 -!- rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:10:34 -!- em [~emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Quit: As a wild ass in the desert go I forth to my work] 15:10:43 rien [~unkanon@dyn-160-39-34-114.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #scheme 15:10:45 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:11:53 -!- emma is now known as em 15:24:50 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-d9bfd2fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:40 StephenFalken [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #scheme 15:30:43 foof, personally I don't think (delay (force ...)) is an obvious idiom at all; I don't think anyone is going to see DELAY and FORCE, manage to miss LAZY, and figure out the idiom. I think of (lazy E) as meaning `a promise, but I don't yet know which one -- if you want to know, you can get it by evaluating E', not as `delay the forcing of the promise yielded by E'. 15:37:00 So far I haven't seen a strategy for implementing DELAY and FORCE that both is straightforward and makes (delay (force ...)) an iterative reduction. I don't think it that `compiler optimizations' is a remotely appealing approach to justifying a requirement on the space usage of (delay (force ...)). I don't understand your parameter approach, but I can say that it is not straightforward. 15:38:50 s/think it that/think that/1 15:40:02 (When I say `your parameter approach', I mean the more complex one involving tagging FORCEs that is supposed to actually work, not the simplified sketch you attached.) 15:44:24 EAGER, by the way, is unnecessary as a primitive, of course: (define (eager x) (delay x)). 15:47:16 (And I think it is a poor choice of name, too. Probably my fault.) 15:48:12 what is the document under discussion? 15:48:35 The question under discussion is whether LAZY, of SRFI 45, should be included in the next Scheme report. 15:48:41 http://groups.google.com/group/scheme-reports-wg1/browse_frm/thread/ab301e4fbdfde529 15:48:41 http://tinyurl.com/4k2tmul 15:49:09 I say yea. foof is mumbling `nay' under his breath but won't say it outright just yet. 15:50:26 SRFI 45 seems so obviously right to me that I am surprised that there is opposition to it. 16:01:29 foof: how is (delay (begin (display "hi!") (force X))) not the same as (lazy (begin (display "hi!") X))? 16:09:04 Checkie [25517@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 16:10:10 pygospa [~pygospa@kiel-d9bfd2fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 16:10:23 pyro- [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has joined #scheme 16:14:38 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:23 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci] 16:18:31 Blkt [~user@net-93-151-229-153.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 16:24:24 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:33:11 good evening people 16:35:50 drdo` [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 16:37:54 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:39:54 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-122-232.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 16:44:28 also, foof, implicit forcing doesn't mean that you can ignore FORCE, e.g. (force (delay (begin (display "hi!") 1))) should always display "hi!", but doesn't in chibi tip with SEXP_USE_AUTO_FORCE 1. 16:46:41 copumpkin [~pumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 16:46:41 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:46:41 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 17:05:25 -!- cuartum [~Cuartum@89.Red-80-25-155.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection refused] 17:06:23 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:07:06 I don't see how the parameter approach can work, because the question FORCE must ask is not "am I being forced already?" or "am I being forced by myself already?", but "am I in tail position of the DELAY being forced currently?" 17:07:46 to answer that question you would need continuation marks or something 17:12:18 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:13:29 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 17:13:43 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 17:18:38 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:08 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:25:33 harishtella [~harishtel@118.172.49.44.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has joined #scheme 17:33:04 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:22 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:54:46 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-122-232.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:55:07 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-122-232.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 17:57:22 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-146-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:07:19 -!- timj__ is now known as timj 18:13:32 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:17:40 -!- bitweiler [~bitweiler@99.40.239.167] has left #scheme 18:20:27 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:23:19 rgrau [~user@62.Red-88-2-20.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:30:53 can someone revive scsh? 18:31:17 anyone has the guts to do it? 18:31:47 IIRC there's a project underway to port scsh to scheme48 18:31:53 I don't know if it's still alive though 18:32:10 Felix also said he was interested in doing the same for Chicken 18:32:13 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 18:33:17 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:34:12 It is a big project, and it must be done by someone who understands both Unix and Scheme very thoroughly. The intersection between those two is very small, and the intersection between those two and the set of people who have the time and inclination to do it is empty, as far as I know. 18:36:10 Felix could do it 18:36:26 I don't know how much of a priority it is for him though :) 18:36:29 .oO("port scsh to scheme48"?) 18:36:40 He means `recent Scheme48', offby1. 18:36:41 To a recent unmodified version of same 18:36:47 do you mean "port scsh to the _current_ version of scheme48, as opposed to the very old version upon which it's already based"? 18:36:48 yeah 18:40:02 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-151-229-153.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:19 Blkt [~user@net-93-145-60-72.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 18:42:44 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-122-232.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:44:23 so basically, youre telling me ill have to read the other half of `info bash`? 18:44:38 or zsh, if you really hate bash 18:44:54 zsh can emulate bash 18:44:57 so... 18:45:05 you hate it too? 18:45:14 its better to start with sh, then bash, then zsh 18:45:54 i hate freaking shells, except for their redirections 18:45:56 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:46:17 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:46:56 teurastaja: If your alternative is a shell, why not just use scsh? It may be old, but AFAIK it's not broken 18:47:03 even the expansions are crippled and you need to refer to info bash every time you want to modify behaviour 18:47:20 No, it's pretty broken, sjamaan. 18:47:25 oh. 18:47:27 :( 18:47:41 Some (but not all) of the ideas are sound. 18:48:26 And it covers a lot of Unix (although much of it is archaic Unix that nobody cares about any more). 18:48:35 That's the most I can say for it. 18:49:26 anyways, wed have to reuse what...? 30% of the code? 20? fix scsh not crash for the millenium, then fight all the posix evangilists 18:50:03 I had no idea scsh had so many issues 18:50:13 I thought it was merely unmaintained 18:50:15 what are the issues? 18:51:20 The code is totally disorganized: it's not at all straightforward to view it as a Scheme48 library, or to turn it into that; it is hooked very deeply into Scheme48 so that it's hard to rip it out of Scheme48 and put it onto another Scheme system. 18:51:29 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:51:52 -!- pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:52:15 pattern_ [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 18:52:21 -!- pattern_ is now known as pattern 18:53:06 The representation of file descriptors is error-prone and unfit for interactive development, even though they are ad-hockily kludged into Scheme48 ports for convenience; in particular, scsh doesn't let the garbage collector take responsibility for file descriptors in many cases. 18:53:28 i think scsh should be abstracted as much as possible, r6rsized, cleaned up, licked thoroughly, then implemented on the os. is that possible, or would we have to absolutely redefine kernel syscalls, signals, threads and everything? 18:53:47 The C code is badly broken, but it often doesn't fail except when luck is against you. 18:54:36 Well, let me be a little clearer: The FFI model that it uses is extremely error-prone (`badly broken'), and there are probably a few bugs still lurking deep inside scsh as a consequence. 18:55:02 work should be split in 2: scsh language, and then make it fit on a unix box 18:55:12 Riastradh: Did it use scheme48's FFI? 18:55:35 Yes, sjamaan. 18:55:38 monoid_ [~tmo@adsl-76-193-181-154.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:55:38 we can just continue with what was left 18:55:41 Was that fixed? 18:55:43 *cant 18:55:55 (in scheme48, I mean) 18:56:15 Sort of, sjamaan. 18:56:19 haha 18:56:23 Okay, so I got a macro system that works somewhat well for expanding infix + and *. I also know roughly show I should go about implementing precedence. 18:56:28 That doesn't sound too great 18:56:44 But how do you get the macro system to recognize parenthesis without screaming and dying horribly? 18:56:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:56:57 *how 18:57:10 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:57:42 monoid_: Things in parentheses would just be represented as a list 18:57:55 It doesn't have to be a problem 18:58:34 just use the standard read-eval-print-loop. why wouldnt it work? 18:59:18 its supposed to be simple no? 19:03:50 -!- pattern [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:15 pattern [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 19:07:26 -!- harishtella [~harishtel@118.172.49.44.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:46 harishtella [~harishtel@118.172.49.44.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:42 Looks like somebody has gone through the tremendous effort translating from Scheme48's old silly FFI to its new silly FFI: . 19:10:49 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #scheme 19:11:09 Okay, so in my syntax rules (the macro name is @), I put the following: 19:11:18 ((@ '(a op1 b) op2 rest ...) (op2 (@ a opt 1) (@ rest ...))) 19:11:49 monoid_: You probably do not want to put "quote" in your syntax rules. 19:11:52 However, neither (@ (3 + 4) * 5) nor (@ '(3 + 4) & 5) expand at all. 19:11:57 ? 19:12:11 (@ '(a op1 b) op2 rest ...) <-- see the "quote" in there? 19:12:15 yes 19:12:36 Don't put that in your syntax rules, unless you specify "quote" in the keyword list. 19:12:38 Oh, I see. They also changed it to use Scheme48's built-in POSIX facilities. 19:12:48 k 19:13:11 monoid_: Otherwise, it gets treated as a variable. 19:13:27 Still, even with the quote removed, it doesn't expand at all. 19:13:39 Okay, give me some "before and afters" that you're looking for. 19:13:53 I'll see if I can write something that gives you a useful starting point. :-) 19:14:24 Before (@ (3 + 4) * 5) --> After (* (+ 3 4) 5) 19:15:05 likewise, Before (@ (3 + 4) * (5 + 9)) --> (* (+ 3 4) (+ 5 9)) 19:15:13 Thanks for helping 19:16:12 Hahahahahahahaha. Wow. 19:18:06 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:18:29 Did I say something wrong? 19:18:41 No, it's just an interesting puzzle. 19:18:46 I've got the simple case working. 19:18:47 I concur :P 19:18:58 Just getting the non-simple cases too. 19:19:01 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-145-60-72.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:21:11 Hehehehehe. 19:21:16 I've got it working for non-associative cases. 19:22:46 rudybot: (infix (1 + 2) * (3 + 4)) 19:22:47 cky: ; Value: 21 19:22:51 rudybot: (infix (1 + 2) / (3 + 4)) 19:22:51 cky: ; Value: 3/7 19:22:57 rudybot: (infix 2 / (3 + 4)) 19:22:57 cky: ; Value: 2/7 19:23:01 rudybot: (infix 2 / 9) 19:23:01 cky: ; Value: 2/9 19:23:05 rudybot: (infix (1 + 3) / 9) 19:23:05 cky: ; Value: 4/9 19:23:09 monoid_: Enjoy. :_D 19:23:10 that's beyond cool 19:23:20 rudybot: (infix 2 / (3 + (4 * 9))) 19:23:20 cky: ; Value: 2/39 19:23:35 It only works for binary, and you have to always bracket everything. 19:23:47 i.e., it's totally non-associative, no operator precedence, ec. 19:23:58 rudybot: give monoid_ infix 19:23:58 cky: error: eval:1:0: infix: bad syntax in: infix 19:24:08 Darn, too bad rudybot doesn't allow giving macros. 19:24:12 Oh well. You get to write your own. :-D 19:24:13 scheibo [~scheibo@CPE001dba06b84c-CM0026f3358955.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:24:32 (P.S., Yes, I wrote it 100% from scratch.) 19:24:47 So, how did you get the parenthesis to interpret correctly? 19:24:52 So overall, I think it took...less than 10 minutes? 19:24:59 Hahahahahahahahaha. 19:25:09 That's the easiest part. 19:25:11 Well, you seem to be a knight of the lambda table. 19:25:12 :P 19:25:16 Yeah, no. 19:25:58 If you want to see my implementation, I'll put in a lisppaste. 19:26:05 Otherwise, I'll let you continue to work it out yourself. 19:26:35 I'll take the latter. Simply because I'm still new to the whole macro thing. 19:26:45 Cool, good luck! 19:26:48 I gotta go now. :-) 19:26:57 k bye 19:32:52 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:38 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:39 myu2 [~myu2@v077103.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 19:44:09 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:48:35 -!- harishtella [~harishtel@118.172.49.44.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has quit [Quit: harishtella] 19:57:26 -!- parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:26 -!- f8l is now known as f8d 19:58:49 parcs [~patrick@ool-45741d7d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 19:59:50 if i ,build an image in scheme48 that uses current-time (from the posix structures or from srfi-19), i get the following error when running that image: undefined imported binding posix_time, undefined imported binding posix_ctime 19:59:50 Bug: bad procedure call-error: (#{Procedure 9326 (call-imported-binding in external-calls)} #{Imported-binding "posix_time"}) 19:59:56 any ideas how to fix this? 20:02:28 femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-110-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:05:34 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-110-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:12:39 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@210-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 20:19:52 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 20:22:38 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:24:58 seamus-android [~alistair@cpc1-brig7-0-0-cust565.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 20:26:33 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-168-94.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:27:57 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-165-86.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:28:02 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 20:38:12 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:38:38 -!- seamus-android [~alistair@cpc1-brig7-0-0-cust565.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:19 schmir [~schmir@p54A9146B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:46:38 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A9146B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:33 how do i parse command line parameters in mit-scheme? how do i generate more-or-less-standalone programs with mit-scheme? 20:55:13 (1) With SET-COMMAND-LINE-PARSER!. (2) With a shell trampoline. 20:55:30 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:45 ecraven: http://web.mit.edu/scheme_v9.0.1/doc/mit-scheme-user/Custom-Command_002dline-Options.html#Custom-Command_002dline-Options 20:55:45 http://tinyurl.com/6j3ayoy 20:56:02 thanks, i thought there might be a simpler way ;) 20:56:58 ecraven, some time ago you had a patch to Edwin to make it support fancier coloration. I don't think I have the patch; all I remember is seeing a screenshot displaying it. Do you still have that around anywhere? 21:01:55 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 21:02:06 Riastradh: i probably do, i'll see whether i can find it. it was rather hackish though, i modified a bunch of x primitives. 21:02:37 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:38 Riastradh: concerning #2 (standalone execution), the fastest i can get is saving a custom band, then loading that with --band and calling my main procedure via --eval? 21:06:18 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-110-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:06:29 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 21:06:40 mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:06:47 Another way to do it is to set up a command line parser for the --frotz argument, save a band, and then run `mit-scheme --band foo.com --frotz'. This avoids the --eval nonsense. 21:07:43 the argument parsers are called in order? so if i make sure all useful options go before --frotz, i can run main there? 21:08:07 Yes, I believe so. 21:08:46 You could do that, or you could put all your interesting arguments after --frotz and just gobble them up in the parser for --frotz using SET-COMMAND-LINE-PARSER!. 21:09:19 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 21:10:44 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:05 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 21:16:12 frotz! my favorite name 21:16:57 No, that's *my* favourite name. You can't have it too! 21:22:34 mathk_ [~mathk@194.177.61.25] has joined #scheme 21:24:21 there is a mushroom on the floor being displayed as an & 21:24:25 that seems wrong 21:24:32 cuartum [~Cuartum@89.Red-80-25-155.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:25:00 er, fail 21:26:57 Riastradh: Would it be too forthcoming for me to ask you where you're from? Because first the "sha'n't" and now this! I know it's really none of my business, but I'm a curious fellow (in all meanings of the word) 21:28:38 fds: Yay for the One True Dialect. :-D 21:28:51 I think the word you sought is `forward'. But what is `this'? 21:29:18 Riastradh: I think fds is referring to "favourite" vs "favorite". Unless I'm mistaken. 21:29:26 Indeed. 21:29:59 "Favourite" is my favourite way to spell "favourite". :-P 21:30:20 Of course, I'm a New Zealander, so this is not surprising. 21:30:23 And, I did hesitate about using `forthcoming', but I decided it was what I wanted. In the `sociable' sense 21:30:41 fds: Nah, I still think you meant "forward". 21:30:42 I leave my origin up to your imagination. 21:31:05 It would be forthcoming of me to answer your question plainly, not forthcoming of you to ask it. 21:33:41 -!- choas [~lars@p5792C76A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:33:46 Hm, possibly. 21:35:26 dunkel^ [~fafj@e177099222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 21:36:03 Where in the world is Riastradh? 21:36:39 As far as I know, he is in the US, last I heard on the West Coast... Not that I stalk him. ;-) 21:36:58 Oh, right now I'm in Boston; in a few days I'll be in New York. 21:38:00 See, he moves around a lot, but in the US. However I now doubt his Americanness despite his name! 21:38:10 *fds* will be quiet now 21:38:16 My name? 21:38:41 Your real name, rather than your name here, sounds rather American to my ears. 21:38:51 What part of my name suggests Americanness? (Also, if I were from Guinea, would that be my Guinness?) 21:39:11 elly: I thought food was % 21:39:54 Where I come from, `Taylor' is a surname. *shrug* 21:40:21 offby1: I thought so too, which is why it was surprising 21:40:30 perhaps it's considered a potion 21:40:33 wait, those are ! 21:40:35 it's been a while 21:51:44 schmir [~schmir@p54A9146B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:52:14 edwinex [~edwinex@90.146.58.19] has joined #scheme 21:52:20 ;) nice, my edwin irc mode still works 21:52:59 I have a version of that from 2007-08-25. Have you modified it since then? 21:53:22 probably not. i will though, it definitely needs to be split into a background library (that handles irc) and a frontend 21:54:21 last version i have is from 2007-09-16 21:55:48 -!- edwinex [~edwinex@90.146.58.19] has quit [Quit: bbl] 21:59:23 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:59 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #scheme 22:04:27 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:20 fds: it's both a first name and last name in the US 22:08:48 Adamant: That's why I said it sounded American. :-) 22:09:01 alright :) 22:09:32 -!- cuartum [~Cuartum@89.Red-80-25-155.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:13:32 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-122-232.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 22:15:07 -!- pattern [~pattern@ool-45715287.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:15:08 pattern [~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern] has joined #scheme 22:17:07 erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe81:5932] has joined #scheme 22:17:13 *offby1* knows a John John and a Graham Graham 22:17:25 (although that latter is, I think, an assumed name; he wasn't born with that name) 22:17:25 -!- f8d [~f8l@77-255-12-39.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: Good night (UGT).] 22:18:31 Yes, offby1, but do you know a Sassoon David Sassoon? 22:21:45 is there a way to tell mit-scheme that an entire .scm file should be read as utf-8? 22:22:07 i.e. all string literals are utf-8 and should be read into wide-strings 22:23:48 It's not straightforward to make MIT Scheme read "foo" as a wide string. But you can use it as a UTF-8 string -- that is, a vector of octets meant to be interpreted as UTF-8. 22:24:26 For instance, you can write (utf8-string->wide-string "foobar"), where `foobar' contains any horrible UTF-8 sequence you want. 22:25:01 thanks 22:30:37 -!- nego_ [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:42:02 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 22:42:13 sloyd: Yes, I was also thinking of using some sort of continuation markers. 22:44:34 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:44:40 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 22:52:43 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A9146B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:50 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:52:55 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:54:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:55:24 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:56:54 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:03 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:01:08 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:02:26 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:03:44 phao [~phao@189.107.243.22] has joined #scheme 23:11:26 Riastradh: I'm actually muttering "probably" under my breath, but by my standards "probably" doesn't make the cut for WG1. 23:12:56 You could take promises out of WG1. 23:14:00 That's more difficult, since we are constrained by backwards compatibility. 23:30:39 -!- erjiang [~erjiang@2001:18e8:2:244:213:72ff:fe81:5932] has quit [Quit: ttfn] 23:35:10 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-39-176.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:35:46 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-122-232.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]