00:10:15 Starscream [~jircii@c-68-47-208-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:10:36 can I use R5RS for SICP? 00:13:41 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@212-14-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 00:13:52 Starscream: yes 00:19:42 k thank you 00:20:17 -!- Starscream [~jircii@c-68-47-208-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #scheme 00:20:30 -!- tessier_ [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:20:30 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 00:38:58 -!- ixor [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #scheme 00:42:13 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@212-14-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:50:23 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:25 lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-10-84.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:58:31 banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has joined #scheme 01:01:01 Starscream [~jircii@c-68-47-208-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:03:52 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-34-218.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:11:50 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@217.191.222.245] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:11:59 TheRealPygo [~pygospa@217.191.222.125] has joined #scheme 01:13:35 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:52 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:22:41 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-34-218.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:24:49 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:30:56 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:38:41 banisterfiend [~horse@115.189.229.17] has joined #scheme 01:39:27 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok039189.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has left #scheme 01:39:28 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:43:08 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:46:13 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Client Quit] 02:02:29 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@115.189.229.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:15:28 -!- timj_ is now known as timj 02:27:04 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:50 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 02:42:50 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:53:46 http://pastebin.com/C3brr2WQ 02:54:35 I'm doing something wrong here, I'm not sure what though, it's been a while since I've used scheme 02:56:43 -!- Starscream [~jircii@c-68-47-208-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #scheme 03:07:20 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:08:21 -!- tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:15:18 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-34-218.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:50 oh, I was gonna tell that guy he was taking the log of x for some reason 03:44:58 -!- preflex 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[Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:51:33 rudybot: seen klutometis 04:51:33 offby1: klutometis was seen in/on #scheme five hours ago, saying "chandler: you're right.", and then klutometis was seen in/on #scheme five hours ago, saying "my FOL's a little rusty, but i take it that the direction of the implication is eq? -> eqv?; such that if eqv?, eq? is true or false; but if (not eqv?), (not eq?)." 04:51:37 klutometis: ++ 04:59:05 jeapostrophe_ [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:59:26 -!- jeapostrophe_ [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:08:58 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:15:36 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@125-239-10-84.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 05:26:48 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 05:33:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.90.2] 05:44:14 jonrafkind 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[~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:04:51 chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-176-141.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:06:06 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:06:42 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 07:06:43 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:13 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:09:55 -!- Modius__ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:05 Modius__ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:10:17 -!- Checkie [1575@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:13:13 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:43 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 07:16:57 !log 07:18:06 nataraj: See the /topic for the URL to access #scheme logs. 07:18:09 If you want to take the `factorial' of a logarithm, you should look into the Gamma function instead, since there's a good chance that your logarithm won't give natural numbers. 07:18:32 Riastradh: Well played. 07:27:45 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:31:39 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:33:32 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:42:06 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:47:49 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:50:43 hypercube32 [~hypercube@158.102.207.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:54:19 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@m-2.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:09 -!- somnium [~user@184.42.17.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:37 -!- felipe 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[Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:02:55 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:38 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 09:18:50 tupi [~david@186.205.37.15] has joined #scheme 09:20:56 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:21:00 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:26:54 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:26:56 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:31:05 rudybot, log 09:31:05 Jafet: 19 skype - Couldn't log in: Could not connect to server 09:51:24 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:24 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:01:29 mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 10:10:11 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:10:28 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 10:11:10 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:11:40 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #scheme 10:11:44 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:21:47 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@183-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 10:32:45 mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 10:32:47 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:35:23 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-20-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:58 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-20-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:53:31 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e0b815c.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 11:06:23 mmc1 [~michal@cs181181164.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 11:14:33 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 11:17:08 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs181181164.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:21:35 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@183-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:30:35 daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has joined #scheme 11:30:37 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 11:31:02 is there a Common Lisp (type-of ) for scheme? 11:35:53 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@158.102.207.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:36:51 daedra: this is highly implementation specific. Chicken scheme for example provides this in the coerce egg 11:37:30 Scheme lets you distinguish all the standard types in scheme. 11:37:38 There are just predicates in standard scheme (string?, vector?, ...). 11:38:27 -!- dRbiG [p@irc.kaer.tk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:42:32 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:32 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:49 -!- nilg [~user@85.239.138.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:48 gravicappa: that should be good enough to build type checking, right? 11:51:11 as in.. some function which takes an object and returns it's type 11:51:24 -!- TheRealPygo is now known as pygospa 11:52:25 That's a silly way to do type checking. 11:53:08 (define (wants-a-pair x) (if (pair? x) ...)) 11:53:13 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 12:05:29 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:06:39 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:06:55 yeah I guess 12:10:19 nilg [~user@85.239.138.109] has joined #scheme 12:12:46 drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has joined #scheme 12:21:25 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:25 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:57 masm [~masm@bl19-150-206.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:30:07 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:31:18 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #scheme 12:32:28 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:40:26 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:27 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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[~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 15:28:31 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has joined #scheme 15:28:31 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has quit [Changing host] 15:28:31 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:30:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.90.2] 15:36:13 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 15:40:19 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:46:31 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:26 mmc1 [~michal@cs181181164.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 15:55:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:57:38 -!- nilg [~user@85.239.138.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:45 nilg [~user@85.239.138.109] has joined #scheme 16:15:09 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:15:47 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:21:53 beerpages [~beerpages@p5B245C02.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:22:05 Willst du ein eigenes Gästebuch? Erstell dir eins auf www.beerpages.de 16:22:09 -!- beerpages [~beerpages@p5B245C02.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 16:24:13 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:23 O_o at the spamming. 16:31:39 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs181181164.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:31:49 chandler, ping 16:32:03 eli, ping 16:32:13 any other ops, ping 16:32:30 :-| 16:32:45 If you care, go bother the freenode staff. 16:33:03 offby1, are you an op? 16:33:14 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:43 ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:35:50 Not that I know of 16:36:28 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-134.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 16:37:40 -!- daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has left #scheme 16:52:46 Ops are overrated. I'm an op on another channel but I'm idle too often to be able to deal with active spam attacks in time. 16:53:01 Actually, on that channel we have like 5 ops, and still some people manage to come in and spam the channel scot-free anyway. 16:56:22 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:57:19 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 17:06:55 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08:22 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 17:13:35 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:40:06 -!- aklt [~aklt@83.221.146.187] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:40:16 Kerrick [~Kerrick@b40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 17:41:45 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 17:43:22 FYI: The list of ops can be found with `/msg ChanServ access #scheme list'. Some of the folks listed there haven't been around here in a while, so perhaps it is time to round up a new batch of usual suspects to add to the list. 17:43:26 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:45:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:14 mmc1 [~michal@cs181181164.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 17:47:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-181.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:51:38 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:56:40 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 17:57:04 museun [~what@c-98-252-140-73.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:57:14 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:59:44 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 18:04:35 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:12:23 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.116.173] has joined #scheme 18:25:15 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@b40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:22 well, Riastradh, you could ban beerpages 18:26:35 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-134.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:27:12 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 18:30:35 samth: What good will that do, though? It's easy for people to change their nicknames and/or IP addresses. 18:31:00 samth: With these things, you kind of have to deal with it on the spot, or not at all. After the fact is not useful. 18:36:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-181.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:38:31 Kerrick [~Kerrick@c16-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 18:38:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:40:19 But you can point out after the fact that beerpages.be is much tastier ;) 18:43:10 Hehehehe. 18:44:41 True story. 18:52:27 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:55:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:01:33 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 19:03:05 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:03:51 Caleb-- [thedude@109.64.6.190] has joined #scheme 19:07:40 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:09:36 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:15:52 kar8nga [~kar8nga@m-215.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 19:37:44 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.116.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:39:04 offby1: I was just wondering, is rudybot called that because of his love of 2 Tone? 19:39:59 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:40:53 -!- drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:27 When I hear Rudy I think of the character from Cryptonomicon. 19:44:20 I think of "A message to you...", but I am a fan of The Specials. :) 19:48:30 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:15 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-237.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:54:08 femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 19:55:14 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:55:18 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-155-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:56:05 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@c16-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59:47 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:03:30 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 20:04:00 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:37 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@183-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 20:06:19 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:14:37 pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-214-134.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:16:11 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-220-12.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:28 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 20:19:35 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs181181164.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:19:41 Checkie [94@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 20:23:19 -!- preflex 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reset by peer] 22:43:57 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 22:52:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:57:07 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:24 -!- bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:28 -!- DrDuck [~drduck@146.229.117.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:59:41 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:07:17 -!- bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:20:02 aisa [~aisa@209.234.140.58] has joined #scheme 23:27:44 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 23:42:47 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e0b815c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:58 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:43:34 Can someone fill me in on what's wrong with implicit phasing in the R6RS context (where identifiers may not be differently defined in different phases)? 23:47:42 (define-syntax foo (lambda (stx) ... (launch-the-missiles) ...)) ; Bug: I forgot to quote something. 23:47:49 Explicit phasing: reference to undefined variable. 23:47:58 Implicit phasing: you launch the missiles when compiling your program. 23:48:37 (define-syntax typed-construct-in-pre-scheme (lambda (stx) ... untyped macro definition in high-level Scheme ...)) 23:48:45 Explicit phasing: the languages are distinct. No problem. 23:49:25 Implicit phasing: This doesn't work. The name LAMBDA can't mean something different in the meta-language (syntactically untyped, high-level Scheme) and the object-language (syntactically typed, Pre-Scheme). 23:49:41 But they aren't *distinct*, it's just that some names are undefined at certain phases. R6RS is not Racket in this respect. 23:49:50 That second one is moot in the R6RS context jcowan was asking about. 23:50:01 False. The languages are distinct. 23:50:11 (Bugs/limitations in the R6RS notwithstanding.) 23:50:58 The general problem is that implicit phasing masks legitimate errors and limits expressiveness, without conferring any benefit whatsoever to programmers who are not confused. 23:51:23 That's isomorphic to the argument for declaring variable types, I think. 23:51:26 It's handy though. 23:52:26 Or against implicit casting in statically typed languages. 23:53:05 False, jcowan. Lacking syntactic types does not limit expressiveness, and confers benefits, particularly in interactive systems such as Emacs in which the system is dynamically explorable. 23:53:48 All right then, I fall back on implicit casting in C etc. 23:54:37 And I do not see how implicit phasing limits expressiveness within the constraints of R6RS. 23:55:15 The implicit casting in C is dangerous. It is textually non-obvious and has semantically significant -- sometimes dangerous -- consequences. See, for example, the underhanded C code contest. 23:56:05 Within the constraints of the R6RS, you are correct: the expressiveness is already limited by the R6RS. I suspect (but do not have evidence handy to support the claim) that the sole reason the R6RS limited expressiveness thus was to allow for implicit phasing semantics. 23:56:06 Explicit phasing also reduces to a syntactic issue since you can always rename the conflicting identifiers. 23:56:17 -!- aisa [~aisa@209.234.140.58] has quit [Quit: aisa] 23:56:47 And personally I think using the same identifier to mean different things at different phases is confusing and best avoided. 23:56:56 Abdulaziz's thesis has an example which cannot be expressed with explicit phasing, because the identifier must be available at arbitrarily many phase depths, which there is no way to write down in explicit phasing. 23:57:04 foof: I agree 23:57:28 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@m-215.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:30 If you are writing a Pre-Scheme macro, do you want to write it in Pre-Scheme, or in high-level Scheme, foof? 23:58:31 jcowan, OK. In that case, the expressiveness of implicit phasing and the expressiveness of explicit phasing are incomparable, but I claim that everything useful that can be expressed in implicit phasing can be expressed just as straightforwardly, without masking legitimate errors, in explicit phasing. 23:58:58 In other words: relying on an identifier's availability in arbitrarily many phase depths is contrived and not useful.