00:04:17 jengle [~jengle@64.252.89.75] has joined #scheme 00:06:35 -!- bonzobo [~user@d173-183-138-200.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:14:14 cracraaaaa: er, what? 00:14:19 "dumps" ? 00:14:30 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-98-152.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 00:14:37 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-34-84.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:26 He left, brunt. 00:21:10 offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 00:22:35 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:19 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 00:31:34 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:37:41 -!- mickn [~mickn@unaffiliated/mickn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:43:33 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 00:46:20 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:45 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:54:46 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:55:21 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:47 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:00 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 00:59:15 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:04:43 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:19 -!- jengle [~jengle@64.252.89.75] has quit [Quit: jengle] 01:15:58 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:24 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:21:20 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 01:22:06 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:23:31 hm 01:23:52 is "I'm going to develop my own scheme library and mutate the language into something I find more aesthetically pleasing" a scheme antipattern or not? 01:25:11 *elly* prods Riastradh for taste advice 01:25:40 MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:27:43 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:53 THERE IS ONE SCHEME AND STEELE IS IT'S PROPHET. 01:28:02 I mean, actually that's cool 01:28:10 it is? 01:28:13 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:28:26 yah, I think he gives indulgences on this issue 01:28:45 (actually not sure that is good style) 01:28:54 i have no idea :P 01:28:58 it may be 01:29:08 I just found myself thinking "I wish I had (syntax-alias def define) everywhere..." 01:29:15 Javascript and Ruby aren't really more aethstically pleasing 01:29:27 so they don't fit that pattern 01:29:50 that's more "use Scheme as crib notes for your new infix language) 01:29:53 " 01:29:58 -!- MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:05 /w/ 23 01:30:07 fail 01:30:29 is that a regex or a wave emoticon 01:30:37 that was supposed to be /w 23 01:32:50 I don't see any merit to writing `def' over `define'. In aesthetics, I think one can make a much greater difference by changing one's style than simply by changing how much one butchers English words. 01:34:12 I find shorter tokens easier to keep in mind 01:35:13 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:17 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 01:35:19 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:35:19 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 01:35:39 I don't think that short vs long is a very important distinction to make when choosing names in programming languages; descriptive vs terse (think GOO), or descriptive vs bloviatingly verbose (think Java) are more important. 01:35:58 GOO? 01:36:09 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:36:51 An experimental Lisp system from five or ten years ago with some interesting ideas that were obscured by obscenely terse names. 01:37:01 ahh 01:37:07 hmm 01:37:22 elderK [~k@222-152-89-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:37:25 -!- elderK [~k@222-152-89-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:02 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:39:08 The language's syntax was fashioned mostly after traditional Lisp; semantics, after Dylan; and implementation technique, after Self, with dependency-directed, incremental recompilation, and a dream that one could change the representation of fixnums in a running system. 01:39:42 woah, that's pretty cool 01:39:44 did that work out? 01:40:10 Not really. The language never took off, and its primary implementor, Jonathan Bachrach, moved on to other research. 01:40:16 also, Riastradh, given that you're you I'm sure you read my privmsg already, but the lack of an ack at least is marginally rude :P 01:47:43 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-183-232.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:49:07 elderK [~k@222-152-89-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:49:32 -!- elderK [~k@222-152-89-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 01:49:32 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 01:50:33 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-nftejpepoddxrker] has joined #scheme 01:50:50 -!- luz_ [~david@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:56:49 'def' is to 'define' as 'lol' is to 'haha' 01:57:49 "shorter, and used more often by Arc users"? 01:58:49 then they obviously overlooked an even better name "d" 01:59:40 In GOO it was DV, DC, DG, DM, and so on. 02:00:05 what are they all for, Riastradh? 02:00:37 -!- pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:43 (I guess you are proving that my point is foolish. :P) 02:01:21 Define Variable, Constant, Something and Macro; I guess 02:01:45 One defines bindings, one introduces data structures, one creates dispatching procedures, and one adds behaviour to the dispatching procedures. 02:02:21 franki^ got only one right, if my memory serves. 02:02:39 Heh, could've been worse then. :) 02:03:21 -!- sbplr [~sbplr@unaffiliated/sbplr] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 02:03:40 The web site, for what it's worth, is at . (Text-mode browser recommended -- it had a nausea-inducing background when I last looked at it in a graphical browser.) 02:04:04 haha yea it is nausea-inducing 02:04:28 I missed DF and D.. 02:04:32 (That's `D.'.) 02:04:37 oh god, why is some of the text in red? 02:04:48 Oh, and DS. 02:04:48 oh, I see, because the background is that color 02:04:57 "Da NEWiest GOOiest with bignums" 02:14:31 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:16:34 Azuvix [~user@174-19-232-21.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 02:25:25 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 02:37:37 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:52:37 timj_ [~timj@e176193102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:08 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176193030.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:07:56 -!- klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: klovett] 03:19:24 -!- Azuvix 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04:45:31 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-98-73.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:45:40 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-98-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 04:45:57 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-87-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:46:11 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 04:46:15 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-87-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:46:55 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-98-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:52:07 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:53 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-98-73.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:55:11 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 04:56:00 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-98-73.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:58:07 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:00:58 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:05:59 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:12:31 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 05:21:42 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 05:25:03 ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:25:17 GOO could hardly be as terse as J or K, and indeed it is not. 05:25:27 -!- ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:35 ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:26:33 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:27:25 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:34 is J or K as terse as Perl? 05:27:40 they both like one-liners 05:27:49 Far moreso. 05:35:14 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 05:38:28 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 05:44:03 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[~saccade@dhcp-18-111-85-105.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 14:02:32 schmir [~schmir@p54A91785.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 14:08:01 -!- wingo [~wingo@AMontsouris-551-1-78-206.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:28 perl isnt bad as a language, but it's the programmers that write the code that are horrible... 14:12:57 250 perl scripts each about 3500 lines with no subroutines would make anyone want to puke 14:14:00 If it doesn't work with use strict, you might ask for a special allowance 14:14:08 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:30 hypercube31: Probably way too much cutting and pasting, also. 14:19:24 icky 14:19:26 :P 14:21:57 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91785.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:34 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:05 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined 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Connection reset by peer] 16:53:11 -!- klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: klovett] 16:53:47 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-98-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:55:41 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56:17 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 16:58:34 Riastradh: what is your favorite programming language 16:58:57 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-177-68.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:59:15 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-177-68.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:00:04 sbplr [~sbplr@unaffiliated/sbplr] has joined #scheme 17:07:50 Quadrescence: I can't speak for Riastradh, but mine is Scheme. :-) 17:08:03 cky: why 17:09:50 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:10:27 klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:11:48 -!- Azuvix [~user@174-19-232-21.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:07 Quadrescence: I like that Scheme is a clean but powerful language. By powerful, at the top of my head I can think of things like first-class functions and closures (well, duh), macros, and first-class continuations. 17:13:20 Quadrescence: I don't use continuations very much but it's very handy to have when the situation calls for it. 17:13:24 have you ever used a first class contin---ha 17:13:31 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:13:35 Hahahahaha. 17:13:39 was that a joke, "when a situation CALLS for it" 17:13:46 i get it you are such a character 17:13:59 saccade [~saccade@64.134.240.47] has joined #scheme 17:14:00 Nice, I didn't intend for it to be a pun, but I'm glad you saw the humour in it. :-) 17:14:59 But, also, the fact that a lot of useful functionality are just macros is impressive. It allows the language to be very light. 17:15:41 Favourite examples: LET and named LET are just macros. So are COND, DO, CASE, etc. 17:16:20 How many other languages can you tell me where such constructs are macros built atop other primitives? 17:16:51 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:17:34 depends how primitive you mean, but agda/haskell could work in theory :P 17:17:41 and similar languages 17:17:42 Hehehehe. 17:18:10 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:18:10 pattern matching is related to the case you wrote up there, but can be expressed in terms of eliminators 17:18:16 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:23:45 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 17:30:49 -!- sbplr [~sbplr@unaffiliated/sbplr] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 17:33:03 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:33:43 githogori [~githogori@199.sub-75-208-20.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 17:35:42 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 17:36:09 sbplr [~sbplr@unaffiliated/sbplr] has joined #scheme 17:39:00 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-12-158.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:39:03 -!- shadow_walker [~shadow_wa@187.82.88.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:40 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-12-158.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:40:20 shadow_walker [~shadow_wa@187.82.99.103] has joined #scheme 17:44:29 pumpkin: what is your favorite programming language 17:57:29 pumpkin, let me know when you can express it in the Haskell language itself, rather than in some English description of the semantics. 17:58:48 -!- wingo [~wingo@AMontsouris-551-1-78-206.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:59:41 In that case, let me know when I can make a pattern matching notation in Haskell to let the end of be less painful. 17:59:46 -!- shadow_walker [~shadow_wa@187.82.99.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:01 shadow_walker [~shadow_wa@187.82.133.191] has joined #scheme 18:00:38 (While you're at it, maybe get rid of the non-strict semantics so that it can become less than nigh impossible to reason about the space usage of Haskell programs!) 18:03:52 lbc [~lbc@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 18:05:12 -!- lbc [~lbc@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:26 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:08:55 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.69.127] has joined #scheme 18:10:53 -!- luz [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:13:42 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27124149.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:41 lbc [~lbc@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 18:15:41 -!- lbc [~lbc@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:31 mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:27:36 -!- atomx` [~user@92.80.100.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:33:31 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #scheme 18:39:42 -!- shadow_walker [~shadow_wa@187.82.133.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:24 -!- saccade [~saccade@64.134.240.47] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:41:30 shadow_walker [~shadow_wa@187.82.217.71] has joined #scheme 18:42:05 -!- shadow_walker [~shadow_wa@187.82.217.71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:48 shadow_walker [~shadow_wa@189.67.166.84] has joined #scheme 18:47:55 -!- mickn [~mickn@unaffiliated/mickn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:51:22 -!- klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: klovett] 18:52:57 tokam [~tokam@p54A7A2E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:53:06 -!- shadow_walker [~shadow_wa@189.67.166.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:30 femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 18:59:50 Quadrescence: probably haskell, although I wouldn't say it's unconditional :P 18:59:50 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-233.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:00:14 Riastradh: you can't and probably won't be able to, but epigram is looking hopeful 19:02:17 and it wouldn't be that hard to add automatic induction/eliminators for free with every new datatype, even in haskell 19:03:01 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:06:56 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:23 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:08:24 femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 19:09:04 araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #scheme 19:09:12 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 19:09:12 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:09:40 turbofail [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:18:57 hotblack23 [~jh@p57B59BDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:19:15 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:14 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:27:29 I didn't come away too hopeful when I last looked at Epigram... Can it be used to write real programs that do things? When I last looked I remembered seeing very little evidence of that, or at least very little focus on doing that. 19:33:26 this is epigram2, not epigram 19:33:57 epigram2 doesn't actually have (much of) a language yet, but there's an underlying system and lots of cool ideas 19:36:43 pumpkin: Did you look at ATS? 19:36:55 yeah, but then I had to wash my eyes 19:37:02 are you serious 19:37:15 You had to wash your eyes looking at that but not at epigram 19:37:18 lol 19:37:26 epigram syntax is _interesting_ 19:37:34 I wouldn't say I like it 19:37:38 but it doesn't make my eyes hurt, at least 19:37:49 ATS isn't pretty, yeah, but at least it's familiar. 19:37:51 I've seen it used in several papers and it hasn't detracted from my enjoyment 19:38:15 but I definitely like the direction ATS is pointing in 19:48:33 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.69.127] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:51:45 schmir [~schmir@p54A90981.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:57:59 -!- 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