00:01:20 let's say i wanted to create a unique hash for srfi-9 objects that persists across garbage collection; would it be an acceptable hack to generate a string representation of the srfi-9 object and hash that? 00:01:46 i imagine there are cleverer methods; would it be worthwhile to look at mit's HASH-UNHASH implementation? 00:02:31 hmm; i guess the string representation is, in some sense, a hash. but i have space constraints. 00:03:41 specifically, i have a document store that is associated with srfi-9 records; i need to generate a cache-miss, though, when the record has been changed. 00:04:57 jeapostrophe [~jay@adsl-69-227-148-197.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:35 Lizard_46 [~Lizard_46@pool-74-104-98-24.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:13:51 fuck it (to borrow a phrase from bill "papa bear" o'reilly); sjamaan's STRUCTNAME->alist it is, composed with ->STRING and SHA1-DIGEST. 00:14:39 it seems to obvious to be healthy; but premature optimization and all that. 00:14:51 s/to/too/ 00:15:02 -!- forcer [~forcer@d148081.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:15:51 Hi i was wondering if someone could help me solve this problem. It says it wants me to develope 'draw-a-circle' using the 'fun-for-circle' template i made. Well i posted that and the actual question here:http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/browse_thread/thread/e2856269bd74a862# and the book i'm using it out of can be found here: http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/curriculum-Z-H-9.html#node_sec_6.6 00:15:51 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/23ybcl7 00:16:41 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:17:15 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 00:17:34 oh wait hold on the original post i deleted it i'll repost it up 00:19:07 -!- masm1 [~masm@bl16-196-13.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:23:13 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-6.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:23:16 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-6.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:25:31 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:19 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:28:22 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:29:37 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:37:03 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-6.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:38:09 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-6.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:43:53 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@mukhadvaram.gurukuli.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:44:02 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:48:26 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:51:24 -!- Libet [~Libet@195.Red-79-152-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 00:51:41 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:35 alright the question i have is here, its the first one on the page: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/browse_thread/thread/0bb6cc242bb5f183# 00:52:37 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2urgxex 00:53:07 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:37 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:56:38 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:00:53 i suppose sha1 can be dispensed with by using (where a is prime and x is a k-tuple representing the string): x_0 * a^n-1 + ... + x_n-2 * a^0 + x_n-1 01:01:25 thus, i only need to do integer comparison; but (and here's the rub): i take it there's no general way of converting a srfi-9 object into a string. 01:01:42 alas; that seems to be the fundamental problem of external representation. 01:04:52 i wonder if there's an implementation-dependent method for accessing the bit-string associated with an object, though; which might invalidate my invariant above, however, that hashing be GC-persistent. 01:06:08 yes, i think the papa bear approach is the order 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[~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:14:38 -!- Fare [~Fare@adsl-69-227-148-197.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:14:39 -!- klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: klovett] 06:15:33 -!- ldunn [~ldunn@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:36 -!- samth [~samth@adsl-99-68-116-221.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:31:53 klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:32:10 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:32:46 ski [~slj@c-8911e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 06:34:25 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 06:34:40 Hi 06:34:46 getting a feel of things 06:34:49 (define fact (lambda (x) (* x (if (= x 1) 1 (fact (- x 1)))))) 06:35:06 this works, but is this the best way for factorial? 06:37:50 not for large numbers 06:38:49 but probably best for smaller ones 06:39:21 assuming you don't want to precompute a lookup table :) 06:39:43 aoh, not too deft at this, may i ask 06:39:58 (define (fact x) (* x (if (= x 1) 1 (fact (- x 1))))) , this works without lambda 06:40:25 yes, that is syntactic sugar for the former 06:40:31 btw, you haven't defined the factorial in the case of zero 06:40:58 define with lambdas may be a bit confusing at first 06:41:06 one defines the factorial of zero to be one, in mathematics 06:41:37 the fact in the body of the lambda refers to the fact you are defining, because define acts like (set! fact (lambda (x) ...)) 06:41:44 -!- pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:52 can't quite get the purpose of lambda, perhaps to define a local procedure inside? 06:42:03 aoh : some beginners likes the `(define foo (lambda (x ...) ...)' style precisely because it reminds them that functions are values, and that the latter above is "merely" sugar 06:42:49 nataraj : `lambda' is what creates a function value. what `define' does is to name this value 06:43:27 ski, yup 06:43:27 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) (* x x)) 12) 06:43:29 ski: your sandbox is ready 06:43:29 ski: ; Value: 144 06:43:43 nataraj : do you understand how that example works ? 06:43:48 iirc some implementation(s?) extended this to currying as in (define ((k a) b) a) 06:43:55 a more advanced example is 06:44:09 rudybot: eval (map (lambda (x) (* x x)) (list 1 2 3 4)) 06:44:09 ski: ; Value: (1 4 9 16) 06:45:57 let me think like this:- first there is procedure without name, which is created by lambda 06:46:15 define then gives a name to the nameless? 06:46:39 yup, the procedure is just a value, like 42, which can be bound to some variable 06:48:38 if you say (lambda (x) x) in a prompt, the functions ends up in some compiled form to memory, but is soon collected by the gc 06:48:57 in fact , lambda is useless,... 06:49:07 i mean in define fact 06:49:18 no, because 06:49:25 (define (fact x) ..x..) 06:49:32 is merely syntactic sugar for 06:49:39 (define fact (lambda (x) ..x..)) 06:49:55 i.e., the former is a convenient shorthand for the latter 06:50:40 the important point to realize is that functions are values, just as numbers and lists and strings and .. are values 06:51:04 naming values is conceptually separate from creating/expressing values 06:52:23 schmir [~schmir@p54A91143.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 06:52:28 ok, first create , then name? 06:52:40 eno__ [~eno@70.137.141.204] has joined #scheme 06:53:06 can't quite find an equivalent of this in C or Pascal 06:53:55 if you write a function and compile it to a binary, the piece of native code of the function will be at some address in memory 06:54:02 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:54:15 to call the function, you need the address of the native code 06:54:26 yes 06:55:18 when the implementation sees a lambda, it compiles it usually to some form and places the executable code (native or vm or whatever) somewhere in memory 06:56:09 the result is in memory, and the return value is a descriptor, which is in effect a pointer, but usually also has some tag bits describing what kind of value it points to 06:56:52 the (define foo (lambda ...)) then sets the value of foo to be just that, so that you can call the code, pass it as an argument to some functions, etc 06:57:46 modulo optimizations done by real implementations, that is roughly what happens 06:57:58 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91143.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:58:12 so foo is like a pointer to the function? and not the name of the function itself? 06:58:23 yes 06:58:39 there are in-built functions like sqrt 06:59:37 ah, implementations obviously need to have some primitives implemented in something other than Scheme 06:59:51 so if i define foo to some other (lambda ...) what would happen? 07:00:04 redefine i meant 07:00:20 oh, gc gets in? 07:00:21 then all the places where foo is used will start to refer to the new value 07:00:40 and the old one, unless it is used elsewhere, is recycled 07:02:36 elsewhere? not global? 07:02:54 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:03:29 nataraj: It can be global but bound to a different name. 07:05:38 nataraj : functions don't have names inherently (just like lists don't inherently have names) 07:05:51 rudybot: eval (define (f x) (+ x 42)) 07:05:51 rudybot: eval (f 10) 07:05:52 cky: ; Value: 52 07:05:54 ski: Too bad rubybot ain't responding; I was trying to demonstrate this. 07:05:59 Oh, here we go. 07:06:02 a certain function value could be known under several names, in different or the same context 07:06:07 rudybot: eval (define g f) 07:06:19 rudybot: eval (define (f x) (+ x 30)) 07:06:22 rudybot: (f 10) 07:06:22 cky: I still need to learn f3 and f4 07:06:28 eval 07:06:33 rudybot: eval (f 10) 07:06:33 cky: ; Value: 40 07:06:37 rudybot: eval (g 10) 07:06:37 cky: ; Value: 52 07:07:06 nataraj : note that above, for a while, the same function value was accessible through both of the names `f' and `g', but later, only the `g' name referred to it 07:07:28 rudybot: eval (+ 1 2) 07:07:29 aoh: your sandbox is ready 07:07:30 aoh: ; Value: 3 07:07:31 (to be precise, each name here refers to a *location*, which may contain different values at different times) 07:07:57 ski: In the case of procedure locations, though, I don't think its value can ever change. 07:08:11 Oh, wait, I misread. 07:08:12 My bad. 07:08:15 (so, each name (in a specific context) refers to the same location, but the value in that location can change) 07:09:07 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) ((lambda (fact) (fact fact x)) (lambda (fact x) (if (= x 0) 1 (* x (fact fact (- x 1))))))) 10) 07:09:07 aoh: ; Value: 3628800 07:09:16 sorry, mandatory example :) 07:09:26 aoh: Is this some variant of Y? 07:09:38 manual fixed point 07:09:42 Heh. 07:10:27 aoh: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc)) ; manual infinite loop :-P 07:12:14 :) 07:24:32 Nils^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has joined #scheme 07:24:52 good morning 07:25:06 is there a standard function to divide with rest? 07:25:46 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 07:28:51 ah, rtfm 07:28:52 -!- Nils^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has left #scheme 07:32:52 rudybot: eval (quotient/remainder 17 7) ; ... 07:32:52 ski: ; Value: 2 07:32:53 ski: ; Value#2: 3 07:39:55 ski, one f is redefined the old "f" remains? Or should we think of function always exits one defined? 07:40:16 typo , "once" 07:40:48 the old function which was constructed remains. `f' is just a "handle" by which one can reach a function value 07:41:42 is there a case where a function value gets "handle less"? 07:53:32 -!- eno__ [~eno@70.137.141.204] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:53:32 -!- ski [~slj@c-8911e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:53:32 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:53:32 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:53:32 -!- aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:53:32 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.230.250] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:53:32 -!- ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:53:32 -!- jensn [~ceres@c-83-233-158-96.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:53:33 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [*.net *.split] 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[~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 08:54:48 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 08:58:12 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:10:58 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e065b44.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 09:11:58 ski_ [~slj@c-8911e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 09:12:11 banisterfiend [~sdf@125-237-255-66.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 09:12:15 is scheme a functional language? 09:12:41 depends who you ask 09:13:00 -!- ski [~slj@c-8911e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:13:14 banisterfiend: what is a functional language, to you? 09:13:26 -!- ski_ is now known as ski 09:14:20 was Clipper 5 functional language? 09:15:28 I used to code only on in it till the mid nineties, old Dos days 09:15:48 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-2.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 09:17:38 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@mukhadvaram.gurukuli.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:18:31 bremner: haskell 09:19:16 http://www.ghservices.com/gregh/clipper/cbevo.htm 09:19:49 -!- elderK [~k@222-152-89-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:20:08 banisterfiend : well, since Scheme is not Haskell, Scheme is not functional to you then 09:20:38 XD 09:21:25 ski: Basing that on this is stupid. 09:21:41 humbug : i haven't claimed otherwise :) 09:22:38 -!- banisterfiend [~sdf@125-237-255-66.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23:19 elderK [~k@222-152-89-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 09:25:54 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:25:59 -!- elderK [~k@222-152-89-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:07 -!- rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:26:26 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 09:27:18 elderK [~k@222-152-89-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 09:28:38 rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has joined #scheme 09:28:50 -!- humbug [~humbug@unaffiliated/humbug] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:31:54 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:31:59 -!- rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:32:13 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 09:32:49 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 09:34:44 rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has joined #scheme 09:36:03 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:37:50 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 09:38:20 Hi 09:38:25 just curious 09:38:34 anybody using Armpit scheme? 09:38:36 http://armpit.sourceforge.net 09:39:40 i am presently trying it on Atmel board at91sam7se512 09:40:08 cool for a scheme to work on 32K memory 09:41:05 mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 09:42:33 alaricsp [~alaric@router1.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 09:45:33 humbug [~humbug@unaffiliated/humbug] has joined #scheme 09:47:20 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:48:58 banisterfiend [~sdf@121.90.62.128] has joined #scheme 09:55:07 -!- banisterfiend [~sdf@121.90.62.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:47 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:33 abstractj [~shadow_wa@189.67.147.189] has joined #scheme 10:07:26 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@189.67.147.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:44 abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.82.224.220] has joined #scheme 10:07:46 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:13:41 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 10:19:01 -!- 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abstractj [~shadow_wa@189.67.153.232] has joined #scheme 18:42:09 Lizard46 [~Lizard46@173-166-26-206-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:43:37 femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-80-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 18:50:07 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-40-148.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:50:13 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-86-236.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56:06 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:56:23 -!- wingo [~wingo@83.32.70.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:58:28 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@189.67.153.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:59:11 wingo [~wingo@63.Red-79-156-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:00:30 SirNick [~nick@c-67-160-151-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:04:07 femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-80-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 19:04:49 atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has joined #scheme 19:07:08 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-80-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:30:05 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:39:46 samth [~samth@adsl-69-227-148-197.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:54:00 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-114-2.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:04:55 trashbird1240 [~user@chondestes.bio.unc.edu] has joined #scheme 20:04:56 -!- SirNick [~nick@c-67-160-151-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:05:10 Hi, I've got (what I hope is) a really basic question 20:05:21 I have an alist of default values 20:05:37 I want certain procedures to use modified copies of that list without altering the global data 20:06:05 is there a function (e.g. in r5rs or srfi-1) that will return a modified copy without redundant entries? 20:06:18 I've tried acons, but that just produces redundant cons cells 20:09:23 bgs100_ [~ian@h38.29.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:13:42 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:13:59 abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.37.211.118] has joined #scheme 20:14:48 trashbird1240: did you try delete-duplicates? 20:14:51 -!- bgs100_ is now known as bgs100 20:14:54 from srfi 1 20:15:07 I copied the argument within the procedure using alist-copy from srfi-1 20:15:16 then altered the copy 20:15:18 that works 20:15:34 ok 20:15:43 thanks 20:19:05 trashbird1240: why not just use acons? if you only access via assoc, it's the same. 20:19:28 well, modulo O(n) issues, but if you're using alists, you probably don't care about that :) 20:19:28 because then I get ((a . 12) (a . 6) (b . 3)) 20:19:37 which would confuse the procedure horribly 20:19:41 is that a problem? 20:19:54 yes 20:19:57 -!- samth [~samth@adsl-69-227-148-197.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:20:04 ok :) 20:20:08 I'm not accessing via assoc 20:20:25 I'm taking the alist and transforming it to a configuration file, and feeding that to an application 20:20:42 ah. 20:21:21 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 20:21:33 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Client Quit] 20:22:03 SirNick [~nick@69.166.35.201] has joined #scheme 20:25:23 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:27:09 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@70-36-245-104.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 20:27:22 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@70-36-245-104.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:29:07 szgyg [~luni@94-21-67-194.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #scheme 20:44:23 MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:45:47 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:46:06 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:46:15 choas [~lars@p578F6E3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:47:13 femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-80-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:47:30 hotblack23 [~jh@p57BD7952.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:50:37 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-80-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:52:46 Try using the "dict" interface instead of specifically-alist functions. It will make sure you never have to think about duplicate keys. It will also make it easy for you to switch to (immutable) hash tables later. 20:53:06 [above to trashbird1240] 20:53:32 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@70-36-245-104.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 20:53:48 I'm sorry, this is the generic scheme channel, not the racket channel. I got confused. If you don't have a "dict" interface ignore me. :) 20:54:01 schmir [~schmir@p54A90712.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:55:05 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 20:56:29 If you just have srfi 1, then use alist-delete followed by alist-cons. That should guarantee no duplicates. 20:58:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:31 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.37.211.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:47 kuribas [~user@d54C436E0.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:11:24 -!- carleastlund [~cce@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 21:11:25 -!- carleastlund_ is now known as carleastlund 21:15:11 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-61-108.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:17:38 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-40-148.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:26:19 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #scheme 21:27:16 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-27.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:31:05 pumpkin [~copumpkin@131.247.67.79] has joined #scheme 21:32:49 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-194-104.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:35:07 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:35:23 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:48 -!- SirNick [~nick@69.166.35.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:10 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e065b44.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 21:44:46 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:01 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-194-104.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:43 femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-80-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 21:51:03 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6E3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:52:03 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-80-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:53:52 MonononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:54:09 -!- MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:54:18 -!- MonononcQc is now known as MononcQc 21:55:25 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:57:54 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 21:58:06 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 21:59:15 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-80-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:56 -!- szgyg [~luni@94-21-67-194.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:14:47 samth [~samth@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:28:01 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90712.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:09 -!- samth [~samth@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:58 samth [~samth@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:31:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32:57 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 22:33:18 foof: ping 22:36:19 -!- samth [~samth@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:39 jcowan: hello 22:39:02 jcowan: you mentioned once on the chibi-scheme's mailing list that you were working on a JSON library, did that ever materialize? 22:39:36 Not yet. So far there is only a "JSO" library for JSON-compatible objects. 22:39:49 I need to sit down and write out a simple parser. 22:40:40 ok, I was making bindings for yajl (an event-based json parser in C), but wanted to check first 22:40:45 JSOs are a-lists whose first association has a unique key, so that you can add or remove entries without disturbing the identity and without affecting assoc/assv/assq. 22:41:38 You might want to consider using JSOs to represent JSON objects and ordinary lists to represent JSON arrays. 22:41:58 There also needs to be a unique representation for JSON null, probably a singleton object of a novel record type. 22:43:19 saccade [~saccade@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:40 yep, I was planning to use JSO myself, what I do with yajl is to call a (user-provided) scheme procedure for each event, using JSO from there is trivial 22:43:49 jcowan: pong 22:43:58 Alternatively, null can be a distinguished JSO with no entries, just a sentinel. That's probably better. I'll try to push out a revised JSO definition in a day or two. 22:44:11 foof: What do the ratios on the ballot results mean? 22:44:15 ok, cool 22:45:01 # of votes for the winner over the other : # of votes for the other over winner 22:45:25 Sorry, that didn't help. What is "the other" when there are multiple others? 22:45:51 results are x0, x1, ... xN, where x0 is the winner 22:46:10 *jcowan* nods. 22:46:45 ratios are count(x0>x1):count(x1>x0), ... count(x0>xN):count(xN:x0) 22:46:48 foof: quick C -> chibi-scheme question, how do I create and pass 'a-quoted-symbol from C to scheme? 22:47:24 tizoc: sexp_intern(ctx, "a-quoted-symbol", -1) 22:48:12 foof: and is it ok to call sexp_intern multiple times after that string has been interned already? 22:49:13 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:15 (I looked at sexp_intern before, but it seemed to me that it would be repeating the work each time) 22:49:21 if you want the quote, sexp_list2(ctx, sexp_global(ctx, SEXP_G_QUOTE_SYMBOL), sym) 22:49:35 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:39 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:50:49 good, thanks 22:51:51 you can call intern many times on the same string, it will return the same value 22:52:37 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:52:45 if you're going to call it a lot it would be faster to save the result somewhere 22:53:43 foof: yes, I'm probably going to call sexp_intern for each of the strings on sexp_init_library first, and reuse them 22:53:44 e.g. the quote symbol is saved in a context global as seen above 22:53:59 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p57BD7952.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:51 foof: petnames in chibi: should we use full "org ccil cowan" style a la Java packages, or are you going to have your own registry of them? 22:54:59 foof: and is it a good idea to store my own symbols there (as a context global)? or is it supposed to be used for internal stuff? (going to check sexp_global now) 22:55:23 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:55:40 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:56:13 mm.. ok, probably not a good idea, seems like I would get conflicts from other extensions 22:57:47 jcowan: I want to build a portable wg1/wg2 module registry, so we should get an idea what the community wants. 22:58:30 tizoc: There's currently no mechanism for user-defined context globals. 22:58:55 What the community wants is someone to dictate the rules, I think. 22:59:07 Or at least the nascent r7rs community. 23:00:13 Hmmm... Java uses domains, C++/Perl/Python use petnames. 23:01:05 C++ has no registry that I know of, so if namespaces conflict you have to rewrite your code. 23:01:22 samth [~samth@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:01:46 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C436E0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:02:11 Right, we'd need a registry. C++ code usually doesn't use org::project::subproject namespaces. 23:02:25 C# seems to use petnames too. 23:02:34 (again, without a registry) 23:02:40 Java basically uses DNS as the registry 23:03:04 the virtue of which is that it's already there and anyone can get an entry (at least an email address if not a hostname) 23:03:04 So organizations would choose and register a petname like chibi or cowan and put all their modules in that. 23:03:36 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:03:49 Right, we'd reserve TLDs as automatically registered petnames. 23:04:11 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 23:04:15 That has the same problem as IPv4 addresses: first-come-first-served + once-and-for-all + free-as-in-beer leads to latecomers being pushed out to the fringes. 23:04:33 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:05:31 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:57 We also reserve the "srfi" prefix, and either "scheme" or "rnrs", plus maybe a few others. 23:07:40 Most immediate code will come from implementations, which will use their own name (chicken, gauche, racket, etc.) 23:07:59 Quite so. 23:08:31 I'm trying to figure out what goes in the WG2 "simple Posix" package 23:09:16 I spent a lot of time thinking about that, and eventually just provided all of posix without an explicit posix module in chibi. 23:09:59 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:10:32 -!- klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: klovett] 23:10:32 *All*? 23:11:47 well, all the common functionality provided by other schemes :) 23:12:23 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 23:12:25 SUSv4 provides 1191 interfaces. 23:12:37 wakeupsticky [ae1d67af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.29.103.175] has joined #scheme 23:12:39 -!- wingo [~wingo@63.Red-79-156-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:41 hey all 23:12:58 i can't find the right character->integer conversion function in the racket documentation 23:13:02 if you find something missing that would be useful, let me know 23:13:08 i.e., #\7 -> 7 23:14:09 Convert \#7 to an integer and subtract it from the integer value of #\0. That should work in all Schemes that don't take pains to make it not work. 23:14:20 (define (decimal-value ch) (- (char->integer ch) (char->integer #\0))) 23:14:26 s/subtract it from/subtract from it/ 23:15:08 My problem is to figure out what is "useful" or "simple", hopefully without going through all 1191 interfaces to see what might be missing someplace. 23:15:12 er 23:15:27 i know for a fact that there is a function that converts a character directly to an integer 23:15:34 jcowan: I'm pretty sure I provide all of Chicken's posix module. 23:15:37 i just can't remember itsname 23:16:00 -!- saccade [~saccade@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:16:43 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:50 Anyhow, must go home. 23:16:57 Thanks for the input. 23:17:52 goodnight 23:19:48 wakeupsticky: could it be that what you remember is 'string->number' and not a integer-from-char function? 23:20:14 maybe, but then i need char->string that gives me "[char]" from char 23:21:10 wakeupsticky: you have list->string, (string->number (list->string (list #\1))) 23:21:38 hmmm, why not char->int? 23:21:41 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 23:21:49 why no* 23:22:00 seems like a basic useful function that should be there 23:22:04 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 23:22:29 In a Unicode world it has to handle all the different numeric characters. 23:22:45 just 0-9 23:23:43 wakeupsticky: not that common imo, I haven't seen that in any language, and if I happen to need it, it is a small function to write 23:24:04 so (char->int #\ ) => 3 23:24:07 i don't see how it's obvious how to write it without knowing the inner workings of unicode 23:24:52 jcowan, that's not how char->int actually behaves 23:25:11 isn't this something that you need all the time for getting numeric input from users? 23:25:25 No, typically one uses string->number and don't try to process a digit at a time. 23:25:44 well, i guess my situation is different because i'm trying to parse strings that represent poker hands 23:25:45 wakeupsticky: well, generally input is read as strings, not chars 23:25:51 'Ac2d' 23:25:55 etc 23:25:59 *jcowan* nods. 23:26:11 Well, foof's definition of "decimal-value" above will do what you need. 23:26:22 yeah, that was quite helpful 23:26:25 thank you 23:26:40 i just don't know if i would have figured it out since i don't know anything about unicode really 23:28:35 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:32:32 wakeupsticky: Fail. Read this: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html 23:33:01 :"> 23:33:38 That article was, like, written 7 years ago, so it's not even very cutting-edge stuff. :-P 23:34:04 (Wow, about as long as I've been typing with Dvorak.) 23:34:09 if it matters, i'm an enthusiastic amateur, not a professional developer 23:34:20 Azuvix [~user@174-19-225-8.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:34:21 The distinction is unuseful, if you ask me. 23:34:25 :( 23:34:27 :P 23:34:58 Like, if you put yourself in that box, you've basically foreclosed yourself from learning. 23:35:35 not really. Amateurs do something because they love it, so there's lots of motivation to learn. 23:37:16 You know, I'm a professional coder (have been since I was 20, and now I'm 30), but, I always find any chance to learn. 23:37:34 Like, Scheme isn't remotely close to being in any of my day jobs. I just decided it was a cool language worth learning. 23:37:34 I didn't mean to imply that professionals can't learn! :P 23:38:11 :-P 23:38:48 But, like, Scheme isn't like Python or PHP where you can learn it wholly in a year (less, in the case of PHP). I've been picking it up for over 5 years and I still consider myself to be learning. :-) 23:39:03 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-13-5.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 23:39:05 that's interesting, because sheme is so small. 23:39:19 scheme* 23:39:29 It's not the size that counts, it's what you do with it! (TWSS.) 23:39:31 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-61-108.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:39:32 Um. 23:39:40 TWSS? 23:39:45 Seriously, Scheme is a much more powerful language than anything more mainstream, so. 23:40:00 what's the deal with scheme macros vs common lisp macros? 23:40:01 ("That's what she said". Google that phrase up. :-P) 23:40:05 i'm too much of a noob to know 23:40:21 ah, i've heard that before. damn, i'm usually better with acronyms. 23:40:41 foof: my sexp_gc_* question was not about why those calls are required (I undestand how that works), my question was about sexp_gc_var not requiring ctx as a parameters while the others do 23:41:22 (the explaination on your blog about how and why to use them was pretty clear) 23:42:00 -!- samth [~samth@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:43:53 ah sorry, I understood now 23:44:52 I was looking at the N versions, but not the generic one, it ignores ctx (it is still mentioned on the N variations though, so if ctx isn't named like that I get an error) 23:48:45 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 23:50:12 imran_sr [~imran@75-18-254-4.lightspeed.uncyca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:55:08 right, my mail said sexp_gc_varN doesn't use ctx 23:55:25 maybe it wasn't too clear (haven't had coffee yet :) 23:59:26 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]