00:05:51 samth [~samth@adsl-69-227-148-197.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:00 jeapostrophe [~jay@adsl-99-68-116-221.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:14:18 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@b01-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:15:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:23:44 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@70-36-245-104.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:23:47 -!- emma__ [~em@user-0ccem2q.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: As a wild ass in the desert go I forth to my work] 00:24:03 Fare [~Fare@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:24:43 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:25:37 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 00:28:19 -!- samth [~samth@adsl-69-227-148-197.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:27 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@adsl-99-68-116-221.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 00:30:14 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 00:31:46 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:01 -!- scriptha [~sc@ip4da3afe2.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:02 klutometis [klutometis@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 00:48:38 incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 00:52:04 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 00:52:47 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-45-254.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 00:52:49 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:54:45 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-40-93.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:54:55 anyone care to chime in? http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dst56/today_i_learned_about_php_variable_variables/c12oqfc 00:54:56 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2v4l6g9 00:55:33 someone's arguing the absurd-sounding premise that php strings are like lisp symbols. 00:55:44 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:57:36 "absurd-sounding" because the premise bothers me; but i cannot, as of yet, distill the death-blow retort. 00:57:55 say, php, spit, and walk away? 00:59:41 good call; i'm worried, though, that t0x2c has discovered some zen-like principle (or maybe nietzche's eternal recurrence of the same) that weds lisp to php. it cannot be, though. 01:01:07 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 01:01:45 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 01:01:53 nay, it must not be; unless a cosmic singularity emerge that would consume us all. 01:04:54 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 01:07:44 This person is slightly confused. The PHP feature being referred to is like a restricted form of `eval', or in Common Lisp something like (defun string-variable-value (name) (symbol-value (intern name))) 01:17:41 -!- Fare [~Fare@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:19:34 chandler: indeed; it occurred to me that we're dealing with a weak meta-language here (not powerful enough, i'd wager, to be called "macros"). 01:20:04 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 01:20:31 Weak enough that it's common to many languages, even C (via dlsym). 01:22:04 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 01:23:14 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-32-210.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:23:16 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 01:29:49 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:32:14 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 01:43:24 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:44:54 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 01:45:02 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #scheme 01:48:08 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:50:36 *jcowan* unvanishes. 01:51:31 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:52:43 hi jcowan :) 01:52:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:52:56 Hey ho, elly. 01:53:23 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-delegyprlgleswur] has joined #scheme 01:54:19 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:55:20 Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:20 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:55:20 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 01:57:02 how goes? 01:58:02 I've broken a bunch of bones in my foot 01:59:50 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.147.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:04:01 Ouch! :-( 02:05:33 -!- jlongster [~user@c-71-199-182-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:07:00 jcowan: eek 02:07:36 It doesn't hurt, which is a serious problem. I'm in an immobilization boot. 02:07:55 !! 02:16:31 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 02:16:39 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 02:19:54 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 02:19:55 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:21:26 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 02:21:59 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 02:28:06 abstractj [~shadow_wa@189-47-226-226.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #scheme 02:28:48 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:38:00 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:39:18 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:43:12 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 02:44:30 jeapostrophe [~jay@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has 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seconds] 08:46:51 abstractj [~shadow_wa@189-47-226-226.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #scheme 08:51:06 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@189-47-226-226.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:50 masm [~masm@2.80.147.100] has joined #scheme 08:53:57 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-139-121.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 09:01:10 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-137-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 09:03:23 Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:03:23 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:03:23 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 09:07:50 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:40 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:16:20 alvatar [~alvatar@153.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 09:18:00 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e065b44.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 09:22:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:32 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 09:25:39 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 09:27:09 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:27:14 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 09:32:38 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:44:36 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 09:44:50 Hi, plz suggest a web site done using scheme 09:45:20 wiki.call-cc.org 09:45:25 abstractj [~shadow_wa@189.67.136.225] has joined #scheme 09:45:56 I am not sure about racket-lang.org 09:48:33 racket-lang.org 09:48:39 htdp.org 09:48:44 schemer.org 09:48:52 barzilay.org 09:49:03 thanks eli :) 09:49:08 s/schemer/schemers/ 09:49:23 *eli* can go on for a few hours 09:49:41 tonyg_ [~tonyg@navarone.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 09:49:49 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by peer] 10:38:09 leppie: `local` is a construct for internal definitions that is used in the HtDP student languages (so questions mentioning it are likely to be homework from some HtDP course...). 10:38:24 (Convenient to just copy/paste the comment from SO.) 10:42:14 scriptha [~sc@ip4da3afe2.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #scheme 10:44:43 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:48:53 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:59 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 10:57:09 Lizard46 [~Lizard46@173-166-26-206-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 11:00:49 eli: I was taking a look at Racket yesterday 11:01:47 its code is usually different and stranger than normal scheme code. I guess it has some advantages. But for instance, are contracts checked statically? 11:02:11 does it integrate seamlessly typed scheme with r5rs scheme? 11:03:09 Contracts are *not* checked statically -- that's the whole point. 11:03:40 ok, I guess, but then they are something that could be done with simple custom macros 11:03:59 If you're using typed racket, then it generates contracts that are used only on the boundaries between typed and untyped code -- inside typed code the static type checker means that there's no need for dynamic checks. 11:04:17 Uh ... yeah ... "simple" ... 11:04:27 ok 11:04:41 It's something that has been in developement for about a decade, and still is very much under development. 11:04:47 well I guess racket contracts are composable or something 11:04:57 Did you read any literature on contracts? 11:05:06 no, just rackets doc 11:05:17 I'll give you just a quick hint at where the fun begins: 11:05:33 if you have (define (foo x) (+ x 1)) 11:06:02 and you slap an (-> integer? integer?) contract on it (often written as (integer? . -> . integer?)), 11:06:16 then the result checks are relatively simple -- 11:06:25 yes 11:06:36 wrap the function, for example? 11:06:36 the contract means that `foo' will be wrapped in a checker function, 11:06:50 that's how I do it normally 11:06:55 and the wrapper will check that the input is an integer and the output is too. 11:07:04 Right -- and that's simple. 11:07:56 Now the important point is blame: if the input value is not an integer, you throw an error that accuses the caller of an error, and if the output isn't an integer the error accuses your `foo' definition. 11:08:04 But so far it's still simple. 11:08:14 Now the fun is higher order functions -- 11:08:27 if I define: (define (bar f) (f 10)) 11:09:00 and wrap it in a contract of ((integer? . -> . integer?) . -> . integer?) then things become more complicated. 11:09:15 I (the caller) need to provide `bar' with the right function. 11:09:22 For example, I can pass `foo' to it. 11:10:27 Now, the blame game becomes more complicated -- the responsibility of the input to the `f' function is `bar's, so if there's an error there, it's `bar' that should be blamed. 11:10:39 I see. I understand where complexity comes. I've never needed such complex contracts, but I understand that there are useful 11:10:53 So the left side of an arrow is in negative position, similar to how the left side of a logical `=>' is. 11:11:08 luz [~davids@186.205.37.15] has joined #scheme 11:11:23 If you've never needed such contracts, then there are two options: 11:11:41 (a) you don't use higher order functions -- and in any scheme code that would be very unlikely. 11:12:13 (b) you used them, but you're satisfied with your own contracts that don't assign blame properly -- probably just throwing some "expected integer" error. 11:12:24 hehehe, (b) 11:12:33 Yeah, that was my guess... 11:13:01 but I was interested in diving into this. However I'm using Gambit, so I'll have to figure out 11:13:20 But when you consider two pieces of code by two authors -- a library author and someone who uses it -- and there's lots of back-and-forth between them, the correct blame assignment can be *extremely* helpful. 11:13:23 if you say 10 years with the plt team, which I believe is among the biggest... then is a hard topic, no doubt 11:13:54 Well, if you want to implement something like this for gambit, you will definitely need to read the papers. 11:14:02 There's one more big issue: 11:14:27 The idea behind conract checking is that you want to place them only on boundaries between chunks of code -- 11:14:38 it wouldn't make sense to check the contracts inside your own code, 11:15:34 and it's can be especially harmful if, for example, you have a recursive function with a non-trivial output contract -- for example, that `integer?' means that you need to check the result, and that means that tail calls are basically destroyed. 11:15:59 So what the racket contract system does is wrap the functions only when they're exported out of a module. 11:16:27 This way there is no expensive dynamic checking inside a module -- it's all your code -- but only when you go outside then you do them. 11:16:29 yes, so I see now what a real contracts system is 11:16:48 thanks for the explanations 11:17:13 This makes it be a real *contract* -- it's an agreement on some required properties for the input, and if I get those requirements satisfied I guarantee some properties on the output. 11:17:34 Oh, and one more fun thing that this leads to: 11:17:52 you can't do the wrapping by a simple function -- you can't even have a single wrapper. 11:18:17 Each wrapper is basically a function specific to the client code that will have the right blame assigned to that particular code. 11:18:35 This uses a bunch of racket features: 11:18:43 what is used to extract thos places? markers? 11:19:09 one feature is being able to have identifier macros -- I should be able to use just `foo' as an expression, and get it peroperly wrapped. 11:19:21 Another feature is lifting expressions to the module toplevel -- 11:19:36 basically, you don't want each use of `foo' to have its own wrapper, 11:20:11 instead, you want to lift a mention of `foo' to a toplevel module definition for the wrapped `foo', and have all `foo's use that binding. 11:20:37 (If you want to do these parts, then you'll probably have a lot of "fun" with gambit's macro system.) 11:21:11 (That's all the highlevel points I can think of...) 11:21:30 I think you've scared me ;) 11:21:50 Well, you could probably choose some subset of this, for a smaller project... 11:22:23 The thing is that skipping some will risk the result being an academic toy a.k.a something you slaved over that nobody uses... 11:22:29 I wanted to expand my current tiny checks (just a wrapper function) to be able to check HOFs 11:23:09 You could ask on the racket list -- you'd at least get some more specific pointers than what I can give you. 11:23:30 yes... I know... but Gambit seems to be a playground, where serious projects happen, but there are no real, serious libraries under continous development using it 11:24:14 Racket seems to be serious about production-ready 11:24:40 I can go on about the PLT philosophy of dogfooding such things, and how it forces such things to not only stay alive and useful, but also it forces extending them to accomodate new needs that are discovered. 11:25:05 (E.g., the same holds for the GUI and for most everything else.) 11:25:13 But I'll avoid the flames. 11:25:21 hehe, ok 11:25:41 but I really appreciate your explanations, thanks 11:26:12 No problems. 11:57:21 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has joined #scheme 11:57:50 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@153.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:59:26 alvatar [~alvatar@61.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 12:01:48 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-116.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:02:02 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-116.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:03:19 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@61.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 12:03:30 alvatar [~alvatar@61.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 12:04:13 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-116.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:04:21 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-116.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:12:08 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:29 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 12:17:46 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 12:21:13 why syntax error for (let(i 5) (* i i)) and not for (let((i 5)) (* i i))? 12:21:48 because let expects a list of variable value pairs 12:22:02 http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_124 12:22:02 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/27nmapx 12:23:25 why am i torturing myselves ? :) just a joke 12:24:33 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-45-254.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 12:26:19 "extended environment" means stack? 12:27:19 an environment is a mapping from identifiers to things 12:27:48 an extended environment is just one such mapping, which has been extended by mapping some more identifiers to more things 12:36:25 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@189.67.136.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:58 abstractj [~shadow_wa@189.67.136.112] has joined #scheme 12:40:53 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 12:47:33 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has joined #scheme 12:48:59 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@189.67.136.112] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:55 -!- wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:55:27 wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:59:53 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Remote host 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closed the connection] 18:14:05 seangrove [~user@m201-210.dsl.tsoft.com] has joined #scheme 18:26:38 -!- pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:39 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:55 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-139.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:27:29 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #scheme 18:31:25 Axius [~fd@92.84.30.61] has joined #scheme 18:32:00 what implementatio of scheme to use? 18:32:24 what implementation of scheme to use? 18:32:27 Chicken 18:33:32 Quadrescence: How is chicken? 18:34:11 quite good when not overcooked 18:34:30 yeah 18:34:48 -!- samth [~samth@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:35:40 abstract_ [~shadow_wa@186.196.79.253] has joined #scheme 18:35:46 Goes doubly well with the Boston Market honey habanero sauce. 18:35:53 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.82.120.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:38 -!- Axius [~fd@92.84.30.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:51:28 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-103-249.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:53:05 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 18:56:49 I couldn't get Boston Market honey habanero sauce to compile on chicken. 18:57:25 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:57:45 aisa: you need to (use boston-market) 18:57:58 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@adsl-99-68-116-221.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 18:58:06 I always get confused over the difference between use and import, thank you. 18:58:23 aisa: it is quite subtle sometimes 18:58:39 and you add in require, and I just want to eat chicken without sauce. 18:59:15 (import chicken scheme) 18:59:18 -!- abstract_ [~shadow_wa@186.196.79.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:27 see? no sauce no fuss 19:00:00 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 19:00:35 (use C-Keen) 19:00:41 hmmm.... 19:00:56 You're macro expansions are a little weird, but nice environment. 19:01:06 must be the pogo stick 19:01:44 pumpkin [~copumpkin@131.247.67.79] has joined #scheme 19:02:29 the pogo stick is certainly why I use C-Keen. 19:03:02 ;) 19:03:03 or, for that matter, why I recommend chicken without sauce--you might need your hands to be clean. 19:03:14 true 19:03:39 Let's see, in order that I may actually contribute content, I have a recursive syntax-rules definition that I would like to expand but not execute. 19:03:43 hotblack23 [~jh@p57B5B383.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:48 What form will show me the expansion? 19:04:31 (expand (pp 'form)) 19:04:38 err 19:04:45 the other way 'round 19:04:50 (pp (expand 'form)) 19:05:42 that looks more like I expected. Thank you. 19:06:24 I was away from scheme programming for a little while, and when I came back define-macro has been replaced by syntax-rules 19:06:33 I've been slowly adding cope since. 19:09:04 hygiene all around 19:09:54 Gee, you must have stopped some twenty years ago. 19:10:22 chicken is slow in adopting new technology ;) 19:10:40 I was just about to say that. 19:26:32 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.75.154] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:27:59 samth [~samth@adsl-99-68-116-221.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:32:10 gnomon_ [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:34:12 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 19:34:37 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:35:08 wingo [~wingo@179.Red-79-151-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:35:12 evening, schemers 19:36:28 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-157.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:36:47 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-157.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:46:01 -!- seangrove [~user@m201-210.dsl.tsoft.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:32 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 19:50:43 foof: ping 19:51:10 good evening jcowan 19:51:55 Good afternoon. 19:52:31 Have you looked at the recently completed WG1 vote? Interesting stuff. 19:53:30 no i have not 19:53:50 *wingo* pokes the tubes 19:55:13 i like all the changes in http://lists.scheme-reports.org/pipermail/scheme-reports/2010-October/000075.html, with the possible exception of the map / foreach thing, but i don't really care that much 19:55:14 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/35nmlsj 19:56:26 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:37 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/WG1BallotResults apparently is the thing 19:56:46 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:57:29 interesting result re modules, though not unexpected 19:57:37 will_ [~will@231.74.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 19:58:11 you missed a great clinger rant at the sfp, jcowan, regarding letrec* 19:58:21 i still like it tho 19:58:27 Yeah, several things will have to be revoted because (1) no result achieved an absolute majority of votes cast, or (2) there was some problem with the alternatives, or (3) the votes were only straw votes. 19:58:38 Can you point me to that rant? 19:58:42 *jcowan* likes rants. 19:58:55 *wingo* likes rants too 19:59:00 i don't think it's online 19:59:46 but it was basically "indiana people pushed this through, claiming "fixing letrec reloaded is trivial", but now they admit that it is not" 20:00:19 based on someone's presentation regarding library groups, having mentioned that letrec* impacted that in some way 20:00:21 It's always more fun to read damns than praises, no matter whether you agree or not. 20:00:27 hehe, indeed 20:01:18 WTF is this list? 20:01:44 I thought the WG discussions were on those cursed Google Groups? 20:02:01 i think wg discussions are, yes 20:02:15 that is some other list, basically the new r6rs-discuss afaik 20:02:16 schmir [~schmir@p54A90438.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:02:35 Confusing 20:02:43 -!- pumpkin is now known as wtf_ 20:02:52 its been there for a year 20:02:54 -!- wtf_ is now known as copumpkin 20:03:12 and it is listet at scheme-reports.org 20:03:13 jcowan: i like the wg1 ballots page, with comments there. that is very nice. 20:03:19 not much surprise :( 20:03:21 C-Keen: Thanks for rubbing it in 20:04:14 sjamaan: I missed it myself! 20:04:29 heh 20:06:01 how do I have to read the voting ratio line? 20:06:04 It's good they now have a general name 20:06:29 Results: both, letrec*, module, define, wg2, no, undecided 20:06:31 Ratios: 9:2, 8:3, 9:0, 9:0, 9:1, 9:1 20:06:33 So I don't need to figure this all out again when R7RS is done and the R8 process starts up 20:07:37 sjamaan: grumpy much? ;) 20:08:04 wingo: I'm positive! 20:08:14 |22:05| ( sjamaan) It's good they now have a general name 20:08:18 :) 20:10:27 given the ratios above does that mean that 9 have voted for both, 1 against, 8 for letrec* 3 against...etc? 20:17:13 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:18:02 -!- samth [~samth@adsl-99-68-116-221.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:26:24 I don't understand the ratios myself. foof does, surely. 20:26:54 For one thing, if the denominator can be 0, it's hardly a ratio. 20:27:03 -!- gnomon_ [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:27:18 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:27:44 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:29:08 samth [~samth@adsl-99-68-116-221.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:30:01 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:05 abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.37.211.118] has joined #scheme 20:38:21 -!- excelsior [~vijay@1.23.6.252] has left #scheme 20:45:22 jcowan: well more like a count of votes (scores as you will) but I cannot deduce a result from them 20:47:36 -!- samth 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#scheme 22:52:09 -!- Azuvix [~user@174-19-225-8.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:19 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:40 -!- ddp [~ddp@c-67-188-239-223.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:00:42 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has joined #scheme 23:04:37 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 23:09:26 -!- githogori [~githogori@249.sub-75-210-243.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:44 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 23:18:55 jcowan: pong(ish) 23:19:28 I sent out a re-ballot notice, hope you don't mind. 23:21:12 re-ballot? 23:22:13 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:22:39 ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:23:34 For the Halloween issues only. 23:24:41 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/WG1ReBallothttp://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/WG1ReBallot 23:24:41 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/265k5d6 23:25:12 The associated CFV is at http://groups.google.com/group/scheme-reports-wg1/browse_thread/thread/59f65b492b5936f 23:25:13 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2vqwvwv 23:25:23 You asked me'n'Arthur to do what seemed to need doing, so I did. 23:26:38 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:26:53 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:32:47 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:40:39 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-212-94.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:41:04 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:44:04 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-212-94.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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