00:00:31 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 00:03:32 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 00:05:18 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.147.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:03 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.10.96.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:48 neilv [~user@unaffiliated/neilv] has joined #scheme 00:10:48 Checkie [20957@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 00:13:05 nice. you can disable wg1 email delivery 00:14:37 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 00:15:18 I have an easier solution, neilv! 00:15:36 don't think i'm not eyeing the Unsubscribe button 00:17:05 ok, i unsubscribed 00:19:42 i still don't know why i wasn't on the committee, but it became painful once they started making decisions 00:20:59 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:54 zura [5ef0e320@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.240.227.32] has joined #scheme 00:29:08 -!- zura [5ef0e320@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.240.227.32] has left #scheme 00:39:55 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:44:05 Jafet [~Jafet@120.140.171.28] has joined #scheme 00:44:09 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@120.140.171.28] has quit [Changing host] 00:44:10 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 00:51:21 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d6b3798-CM00222d6b3795.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:51:43 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d6b3798-CM00222d6b3795.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #scheme 00:51:57 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-226-26.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 00:58:14 -!- mickn [~mickn@unaffiliated/mickn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:58:57 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:00:53 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-26-199.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:05:05 ctgpi [~ctgpi@187.104.54.222] has joined #scheme 01:10:10 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:21:10 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:24:08 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-15-161.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:30:05 -!- neilv [~user@unaffiliated/neilv] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:39:48 necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:42:33 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 01:46:17 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:55:48 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:58:34 jeapostrophe [~jay@adsl-99-68-116-221.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:33 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:09:13 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #scheme 02:13:07 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:46 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:18:52 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-15-161.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:19:07 -!- klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:21:38 easy4 [~easy4@c-174-60-36-128.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:24:03 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:38 klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:33:26 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 02:49:07 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-198.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:43 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:52:03 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:39 timj [~timj@e176193195.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:16 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176196057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:10:10 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:35 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:14:58 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:17:34 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:17:55 Well, WG1 has dealt with a whole bunch of issues, so the shape of R7RS small Scheme is beginning to appear. 03:18:08 oh? 03:20:06 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-15-125.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:17 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 03:30:48 -!- ctgpi [~ctgpi@187.104.54.222] has quit [Quit: ctgpi] 03:37:56 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 03:41:10 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 03:47:57 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-15-125.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:52:01 -!- luz [~davids@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 04:00:25 Zot! 04:08:45 Zoq-Fot-Pik! 04:15:15 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 04:20:53 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 04:22:02 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:28:10 wakeupsticky [ae1d67af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.29.103.175] has joined #scheme 04:28:28 what's the right scheme to use for a gui application? 04:30:02 -!- wakeupsticky [ae1d67af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.29.103.175] has quit [Client Quit] 04:30:07 Heh. 04:30:11 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:50 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-174-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:30:51 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-174-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:33:38 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:34:05 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:40:39 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:52:42 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 04:53:10 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:54:39 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:13 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@adsl-99-68-116-221.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 05:18:17 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-198.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 05:24:47 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #scheme 05:25:26 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:29:30 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-198.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:39:00 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-174-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:39:07 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-174-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:43:52 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:50:04 ASau [~user@77.246.230.250] has joined #scheme 05:58:25 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 05:59:06 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:09:08 Hi 06:09:10 (lambda (a b c) (+ a (* b c))) 06:09:10 #{Procedure 8523} 06:09:33 anyway to call 8523 ? 06:12:01 Wild guess: Scheme48? (Second guess, even wilder: T?) 06:12:40 goof guess 06:13:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.121] has joined #scheme 06:15:47 No, 8523 refers to the static code, not to the procedure object, which also has an associated environment; and Scheme48 doesn't record the reverse mapping from the numbers to the static code either. 06:15:50 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:21:17 so 8523 is like a zombie now? 06:22:41 Zombie? It just identifies the static part of the procedure. 06:23:23 gosh> (lambda (a b c) (+ a (* b c))) 06:23:23 # 06:23:45 Example: (define (f x) (lambda () x)) The procedures you get back from F all share a common number, which refers essentially to the lambda expression, without an associated environment. (However, as I said, there's no reverse map, so you can't go from the number to the lambda expression, or to any of the procedures.) 06:24:38 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 06:25:24 -!- xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-vjfankmrtgnryxzr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:27:49 mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 06:32:39 hence the #f? 06:35:52 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:35:57 No, what you see in Gauche is unrelated. My guess about Gauche is that the #F is a placeholder for a name that is missing for an anonymous procedure. 06:42:21 #f as in false? 06:45:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:45:10 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:36 ...yes, #F usually means false in the context of Scheme. 07:05:28 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:06:16 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-8-84.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:10:58 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.197.39] has joined #scheme 07:16:51 Hi, anybody using Armpit-scheme? http://armpit.sourceforge.net/ 07:18:16 Never heard of it before. 07:18:49 i did install on at91sam7se256 micro controller 07:19:14 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:35 good effort my Dr.Montas, written on Arm assembly 07:20:39 tried to get it used by our embedded team in office, but the dummies can't see beyond C 07:21:28 we could have run lots of test cases using this scheme, but 07:22:45 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:20 Jafet1 [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 07:27:38 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:27:39 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 07:27:50 -!- klutometis [klutometis@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:29:04 -!- incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:29:15 In (map (lambda (n) (+ n n)) '(1 2 3 4 5)), map resolves a pointer to the list? 07:32:00 What's resolve a pointer? 07:34:57 could it be that map make n point to the start address of list and resolves it during exec? 07:38:00 Okay, I understood even less of that 07:38:52 map has its own pointer to the start of the (linked) list '(1 2 3 4 5) 07:39:17 and makes n point to the values in the list, whatever that happens to mean in the particular implementation 07:41:37 are most of the schemes written using C ? 07:42:52 By raw volume, I daresay most implementations of scheme are written in scheme 07:43:49 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:44:32 /join #C 07:45:17 Poor embedded coders, stuck in an artificial world of pointers, C, type-unsafeness and tasty wheat 07:45:56 i thought this might have been a chance to convert one 07:48:58 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:52:28 Jafet: when you do anything in embedded, come again. 07:53:46 BTW, is there any Scheme with RT GC? 07:53:52 no. 07:53:56 (For starters.) 07:54:07 Poor Schemers. 07:54:12 They have no sense of real time. 07:54:27 embedded programming puts hair on your chest 07:54:27 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-12-158.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:54:29 aren't there a few 07:54:35 whether you need it or not 07:55:20 Adamant: yes, embedded programming is for real men, kids won't do. :D 07:55:41 well, real people 07:55:59 that's what I was setting up the hair on chest pun for 07:56:32 Well, there ain't any C with rtgc either. 07:56:52 that's because C has mechanisms do to RT without it 07:56:56 Scheme does not 07:56:59 You don't need GC in C when you're working in embedded. 07:57:06 In Scheme you can't work without GC. 07:57:37 if you want to use powers that go beyond C 07:57:38 So you're talking at cross-ends. 07:57:39 I'm yet to see any sane Scheme to work in-place without GC, 07:57:42 you need some kind of RT-capable memory management scheme 07:57:46 when it is provable to do so. 07:58:32 ASau, you could probably do that with fairly easily with reference counting 07:58:33 anyway, this is mostly pointless dickwaving 07:58:37 Scheme is just a language. You can extend it to be capable of doing anything C could do on your micro, if you wanted, but then you might as well just use C. 07:59:37 Jafet: "if you wanted," you could do it. 08:00:01 This boils down again to the same "when you do anything in embedded, come back." 08:00:23 The world doesn't work the way you want. 08:00:40 That's why Scheme is kicked off universities by Python. 08:00:52 bleh 08:00:53 which has realtime gc? :) 08:00:59 Okay, okay. Enjoy your tasty wheat. 08:01:01 of course not 08:01:18 .oO(A language which calls arrays lists...) 08:01:48 yes, like CS doesn't even enough awful pointless terminology abuse 08:01:50 aoh: neither, that's why Python is equivalent to Scheme in this respect. 08:01:54 *don't have 08:02:21 Python is the Will Smith of programming languages 08:02:54 it's a lowest common denominator everyone agrees not to hate too much 08:03:18 usually because the alternative is Java 08:03:22 true enough, precisely why we use it in our introductory programming classes 08:03:55 but i still think scheme would be pretty good also for embedded stuff 08:04:07 After having to work with Java (the alternative is writing cross-platform code in C++), 08:04:07 just use a subset if you don't need the fancy stuff 08:04:13 compiled PreScheme would be fine 08:04:14 I have mixing feeling on Java. 08:04:21 most embedded stuff isn't realtime anyway 08:04:26 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 08:04:35 although when you need it, you need it 08:05:02 Adamant: Scheme requires more memory for operation. 08:05:08 well, 'real' (hard) realtime 08:05:20 ASau: not that much more when efficiently compiled 08:05:38 I wouldn't stuff it on a low end 8 bit 08:05:47 i have a soft realtime requirement in one thing to render frames at >40fps on a phone, and even a vm with generational gc seems to do fine 08:06:10 Adamant: that's what I asked above: I'm yet to see sane Scheme that works in place when it is possible. 08:06:33 times are changing, soon your embedded device is faster than your home computer a few years back :) 08:06:38 ASau: do you want hard realtime or embeddable Schemes? 08:06:46 the second do exist 08:06:48 Adamant: both. 08:07:01 well, can't help you right now for the first 08:07:19 there's no technical reason I am aware of you couldn't do a RT GC for Scheme 08:07:27 Java has an optional one 08:07:29 There's problem with your understanding of embeddable. 08:07:37 oh really? 08:08:17 At least aoh thinks that you can afford using powerful enough device in embedded. 08:08:23 It isn't so. 08:08:47 unless your definition of embeddable is based around 4-bit calculator processors or the cheapy cheapassed PICs you can find for cost reasons 08:08:57 *most cheapy 08:09:05 Scheme works fine 08:09:22 How much memory do you have, 100 bytes? 100 kilobytes? 100 megabytes? 08:09:39 jjong [~prince@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 08:09:43 512 bytes is the realistic minimum these days 08:10:28 earlier Lisp implementations worked on processors less powerful that some of the turbocharged 8-bits we have now 08:11:02 They weren't RT capable anyway, what's the reason to bring them into discussion? 08:11:09 If you work on the 100kb chip, it's your "embedded". 100 bytes is too masochistic for you, and 100 megabytes is just silly--who needs that much memory? 08:11:22 This is why it's pointless to argue with "embedded" developers. 08:11:26 also, you can do a crazy amount of optimization of a program when you have a modern PC compiling and optimizing it then dumping it into an embedded computer 08:12:01 What can you do in 100K words when you need them for sound and other data buffers? 08:12:14 up to and including various forms of supercompilation, which are in shipping commercial compilers 08:12:38 Adamant: yes, you can. Does Scheme support all these fancy things like supercompilation? 08:12:58 right now? no. can it? yes. 08:13:03 Or am I (e.g.) to write it myself? 08:13:15 Adamant: this is the problem. 08:13:16 I've never seen supercompilation applied to anything other than machine code. 08:13:33 Or, at least, the term "supercompilation" 08:14:01 I'm yet to see Scheme cross compiler for start. 08:14:03 If you've translated scheme code to machine code, then hooray--you can superoptimize it. 08:14:11 Jafet: I just know there's a C compiler for PIC doing this 08:14:15 and it's not cheap 08:14:36 Supercompiling C directly? 08:14:47 not sure offhand 08:14:50 Strange use of the term to me, but ok 08:14:59 yeah, maybe I got it wrong 08:15:04 http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~dube/scheme00.ps.gz 08:15:30 regardless, when you can throw a PC and modern optimization techniques at optimizing shit for a tiny embedded processor 08:15:41 you can work through a whole lot of possibilties 08:16:20 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.250] has joined #scheme 08:17:16 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:17:57 i don't think realtime gc is a high priority for many schemes, as they are typically slower that generational and other more soft-realtime-capable ones 08:17:57 aoh: better, yet, any sample application in it? 08:18:23 aoh: it's not a high priority for basically any high level langauge 08:18:28 other than C 08:18:33 excuse me 08:18:43 since C does RT but has no GC 08:18:53 Java does it, and that's about it 08:19:04 It's order of magnitude to do rtgc for C 08:19:14 Er, order of magnitude harder 08:19:22 Ask boehm. 08:19:51 Asau`, don't know of any. iirc that one was used mainly for teaching. 08:20:04 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.230.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:20:08 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:20:11 "In fact, we didn't find a real-time GC technique in the literature that tries to minimize the waste of space." 08:20:30 "Our implementation performs poorly when it comes to time efficiency." 08:21:16 It wastes at least 80% of time. 08:21:19 It shouldn't be surprising that doing gc in little bits with less memory is less efficient that doing it in large batches with more memory 08:21:27 dude, go program in real time in Python and be happy 08:21:33 That's the hard tradeoff of "real time". 08:21:40 Jafet: it shouldn't produce garbage at all. 08:22:15 RT applications are usually written in a way that they don't waste space. 08:22:55 Scheme shouldn't be scheme? 08:23:00 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 08:23:03 If you feel that way, then sure, use C. 08:23:32 Jafet: compiler should detect that the code can work so that waste isn't produced at all. 08:24:13 If you don't know correct idioms in Scheme for not producing waste, 08:24:17 so worse to Scheme. 08:24:20 Scheme compilers can do that very well now. 08:24:40 if you don't know how not to produce waste in C, you will product waste there too 08:24:45 *produce 08:25:10 Adamant: in C it is easier to see that you don't produce waste. 08:25:22 yes, if you already know C 08:26:01 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-220.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:02 It is Schemers that are to produce correct idioms for RT embedded work. 08:26:22 ...If they want to be successful in the field. 08:26:37 shoot me now 08:26:47 *ASau`* shoots. 08:28:20 How long before the gc collects Adamant? 08:29:28 instantly 08:29:34 it is in real time, after all 08:31:12 you do have to sign a clickthrough first saying you won't use it for a nuclear reactor, though 08:35:24 oh, there has been continuation in the bit-scheme front 08:35:27 http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~feeley/papers/StAmourFeeleyIFL09.pdf 08:38:53 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-36-242.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:47:38 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit 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joined #scheme 12:43:54 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 12:49:02 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.82.160.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:58 luz [~David@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 12:53:28 abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.82.133.228] has joined #scheme 12:59:10 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:02:02 jeapostrophe [~jay@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #scheme 13:05:06 jeapostrophe_ [~jay@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:06:59 -!- jeapostrophe_ is now known as jeapostrophe 13:14:34 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:18:57 Nibble [~Nibble@81-235-216-50-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #scheme 13:18:58 hello 13:19:02 (define (print-spaced* . args) 13:19:04 (apply print-spaced** args)) 13:19:06 (define (print-spaced** x) 13:19:08 ((display x)(display " "))) 13:19:10 why isn't that working 13:19:15 (print-spaced* "test" "testt") 13:19:20 Error: bad argument count - received 2 but expected 1: # 13:21:26 because of defines synntax 13:21:58 you need a variable in front of args 13:22:11 no? 13:22:16 are you sure? 13:22:31 of course im sure 13:23:00 why does this work then 13:23:05 (define (print-spaced . args) 13:23:07 (for-each 13:23:09 (lambda (x) 13:23:11 (display x) (display " ")) 13:23:13 args)) 13:23:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:23:42 Nibble: Don't use apply; it splices the args list back into multiple arg positions 13:23:49 also, how does (read) work 13:23:54 (apply foo '(1 2 3)) ==> (foo 1 2 3) 13:24:08 sjamaan: ok, but isn't apply necissary on varargs? 13:24:26 It is, but print-spaced** accepts only one regular arg 13:24:29 youre trying to interpret something like a multiple-procedure instead of a multiple-argument procedure 13:24:32 Not a variable list of arguments 13:24:52 as i understand it 13:25:03 havent touched scheme in months 13:25:14 sjamaan: so what should I use, map? 13:25:24 for-each is fine 13:25:37 (map has no defined order in which it calls the procedure on the list elements) 13:25:49 :/ 13:26:07 Also, you're calling the procedure purely for its side-effects. map should be used when you want to build up a list of result values 13:26:57 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:28:54 how do I use (read) 13:29:12 -!- teurastaja [~teurastaj@modemcable231.29-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:29:44 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 13:30:12 -!- ray_ is now known as ray 13:30:20 Just (read) 13:30:21 :) 13:30:31 or (read port) 13:30:44 what is a port. 13:31:05 oh read 13:31:15 I thought it was like haskells show and read 13:31:17 :/ 13:31:18 port is an abstraction over file-like objects 13:31:20 http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_586 13:31:21 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3y8gfht 13:31:22 is there anything like that? 13:32:05 There's read-char, and most Schemes have read-line, read-string etc 13:32:30 sjamaan: what's the difference? 13:32:50 Nibble: did you look up what read does? 13:33:04 Axius [~darkstar@92.82.83.178] has joined #scheme 13:33:13 C-Keen: yes 13:33:17 http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-2.html#%_toc_%_sec_6.6.2 13:33:18 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/372oelz 13:33:22 it takes input 13:33:29 and two sentences farther there is the explanation of read-char 13:33:42 C-Keen: ok 13:33:57 no it does not read input 13:33:59 Read converts external representations of Scheme objects into the objects themselves. 13:34:12 that's far less than just reading input 13:34:16 (or more) 13:34:20 If read encounters a ( it will keep reading until that ) is closed, for example 13:34:29 You can't use it to read arbitrary strings 13:34:43 so, if I want to do something like (eval (read "(+ 1 1)")) 13:34:46 but it will happily turn your s expression into scheme 13:35:00 Nibble: To do that you'll probably need string ports 13:35:10 read-string? 13:35:23 rudybot: eval (eval (with-input-from-string "(+ 1 1)" read)) 13:35:25 sjamaan: your sandbox is ready 13:35:25 sjamaan: ; Value: 2 13:35:34 See? 13:35:47 String ports are ports that read from a string instead of a file 13:36:03 sjamaan: thanks. 13:36:57 np 13:37:36 that can be used for so many cool stuff 13:37:42 I am guessing rudybot uses something like that? 13:37:54 basically yes 13:38:13 rudybot: eval (+ 1 13:38:14 C-Keen: your sandbox is ready 13:38:15 C-Keen: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 13:40:19 Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #scheme 13:41:05 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has left #scheme 13:44:35 C-Keen: do you have any link to a network-programming tutorial in scheme? 13:45:17 There is none, except maybe for specific implementations 13:45:27 :/ 13:45:42 I know scheme is mimal, but I didn't think it was _that_ minimal 13:45:58 Now you know 13:46:01 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.82.133.228] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:12 You'll soon find you that it is even more minimal. 13:46:40 mario-goulart: oh, scheme is a nihilistic AI? 13:47:34 how can this be :( 13:47:57 because minimalism was one of the design goals 13:48:18 Yes, if you want all kinds of bells and whistles, you know where to find CL 13:48:39 anyone in here uses scheme for practical programming? 13:48:54 what would qualify as that? 13:49:18 there are several irc bots you can study I don't know if that would qualify as tutorial 13:49:31 Racket 13:49:35 is that a popular compiler 13:49:46 Yes, very 13:49:49 quite 13:50:07 they do have a specific channel #racket 13:50:07 I think I will try out common lisp a bit more. 13:50:14 R6RS then 13:53:16 Azuvix [~user@174-19-225-8.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 13:55:07 -!- ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:55:07 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:00:52 -!- Axius [~darkstar@92.82.83.178] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:02:37 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:04:16 Axius [~darkstar@92.84.7.93] has joined #scheme 14:08:31 "Nibble". 14:09:13 mickn [~mickn@unaffiliated/mickn] has joined #scheme 14:11:00 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has joined #scheme 14:11:19 Blkt [~user@160.80.132.14] has joined #scheme 14:11:31 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:21 eli: ? 14:12:28 emma [~em@user-0ccem2q.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 14:12:28 -!- emma [~em@user-0ccem2q.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:12:28 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:13:37 Nibble: Your nickname is amusing right next to "I'll try out CL a bit more" and "R6RS then". 14:13:54 eli: I don't see how it could be 14:20:02 hi eli 14:21:01 Nibble: Relating R6RS and CL is ... questionable. 14:21:08 elly: Good morning... 14:21:15 eli: I didn't. 14:21:33 I was expressing a question about whether R6RS did have this stuff. 14:21:46 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:21:55 *eli* rolls his eyes to the sky 14:22:08 Yeah, yeah, just something that looked amuzing. To me. 14:22:11 I wish I could scheme at work 14:22:55 elly: Rub your hands together, and spread evil looks around. Soon enough people will get it. 14:23:16 Oh, and quiet snickering. 14:25:16 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:25:38 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has joined #scheme 14:26:00 hehe 14:26:14 well, I wish I could racket at work! 14:28:12 That will turn things from funny to dangerous... 14:28:34 Oh geez, what have I walked into? lol 14:28:51 *eli* hides behind the curtains 14:29:24 So eli is speaking to... elly. Or vice-versa. 14:29:58 klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:31:16 both, in fact, Azuvix 14:31:23 'in traditional conversation style' 14:31:36 Quite. There's just something humorous about that. 14:32:22 I had a dog named Eli. :) Most fun of any dog on earth. 14:32:23 :P 14:32:36 there is a person I know and talk to somewhat frequently named elky 14:32:47 which is just as bad, really, since we get nickcolored the same :P 14:33:03 Ooch, that doesn't sound fun. 14:34:05 elly: From TCC? 14:36:09 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 14:38:52 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 14:39:31 -!- Axius [~darkstar@92.84.7.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:54 jeapostrophe [~jay@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #scheme 14:42:23 eli: from TCC? 14:42:41 saccade [~saccade@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:02 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:20 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:43:23 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 14:43:31 uyerd [4f2a5a9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.42.90.159] has joined #scheme 14:44:36 -!- uyerd [4f2a5a9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.42.90.159] has left #scheme 14:47:16 abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.82.118.14] has joined #scheme 14:47:38 elly: MIT's daycare. 14:49:15 eli: heh, no :P 14:49:20 *elly* is, strangely, not attached to MIT! 14:49:35 Well, you are pretty close to it now, no? 14:49:46 -!- Nibble [~Nibble@81-235-216-50-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has left #scheme 14:50:54 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:51:34 *sheds a tear for Lisp at MIT* 14:53:24 Do that for s/Lisp/Scheme/ 14:53:47 *sheds a tear for Scheme at MIT* 14:54:10 :0 14:54:13 :) 14:54:50 eli: three blocks or so 14:55:45 Is there a school these days that even offers a course in Scheme or anything Lispy? 14:56:02 elly: So it would be pretty likely that you'd know an elky that works in that range... 14:56:08 Many other universities still use scheme for intro-to-CS. 14:56:11 it is not that elky, though 14:56:19 Azuvix: Yes, many. 14:56:21 MIT still uses lisp, but not for the maggots. 14:56:21 my primary partner is an MIT student, in fact :) 14:56:40 ThereYouGo(TM). 14:56:43 That helps. 14:57:16 Azuvix: In the Boston area, the Scheme center of gravity has long ago moved across the river. 14:57:39 eli: Did it move closer to the ice cream parlors? :P 14:59:08 where is the scheme center of gravity, eli? 15:01:01 Azuvix: I'm not familiar with the local ice cream scene... 15:01:09 elly: Isn't it obvious? 15:01:43 Bernie and Emacks... ;P 15:14:59 eli: no :( 15:19:27 elly: NEU. It's the center of Larceny, it's where the first author of scsh is, it's where Mitch Wand is, and it has a largish group of people hacking on a certain dialect of Scheme. 15:22:25 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 15:26:10 araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #scheme 15:26:10 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 15:26:10 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:27:54 aha 15:33:26 hi 15:34:54 anyone knows what happens with Ikarus development? this implementation reached a really good level of performance, why is almost abbandoned? 15:35:30 Because it had one maintainer, and he's moved on to other things. 15:35:55 chandler: hi 15:35:59 Did you get my mail? 15:36:03 Yes, I did. 15:36:21 Does the bug occur in your code too? 15:36:26 The whole first-char-on-line thing is a hack to try to detect plain text interspersed with S-expressions. 15:36:33 Ah, I see now 15:36:33 I have no idea if it does or it doesn't. 15:36:42 Sounds tricky 15:36:52 Changing the mode back to :normal instead of :first-char-on-line just removes that hack, really. 15:37:04 I would prefer to have some better way of detecting blocks of text interspersed with code. 15:37:12 I see 15:37:15 But really, it's not like I'm actually working on or maintaining it at this point. 15:37:20 heh 15:37:23 Good to know that 15:37:35 Do you prefer not getting mails when I find other bugs? 15:37:57 I probably won't do anything with them, so it's probably not worth your time to send them. 15:38:05 okay 15:38:39 I wasn't aware that lisppaste tried to do this normal text detection stuff 15:39:04 It doesn't seem to do that in most of the other supported languages though, or am I mistaken? 15:39:56 That's correct. 15:40:10 It was added to the Lisp mode based on what I saw from other users in #lisp. 15:40:26 Sounds like a good enough reason 15:40:49 Sure, but it could probably be done better, and as a separate concern. 15:40:56 It's good to know though, because my goals for colorize are a little different 15:41:10 You should probably remove the first-char-on-line state entirely, then. 15:41:18 That's exactly what I did, for lisp code 15:41:38 I didn't for erlang because I don't really know erlang and don't have testcases (yet) 15:41:40 OK. That's probably the right solution. 15:41:46 I didn't know it was there for Erlang. 15:41:54 I didn't write that mode; I don't really know Erlang either. 15:41:55 I'll probably add some testcases if I hack on it more 15:41:58 hehe 15:42:22 Anyway, if you ever decide to pick up maintenance of it again, you know where to find colorize 15:42:44 Can I once again encourage you to consider rewriting all of lisppsate? It'd be fun. And exciting! I can tell you about all the mistakes I made writing it and you can hopefully avoid them. :-) 15:42:49 "lisppaste". Sheesh. 15:43:25 Kerrick [~Kerrick@b52-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 15:45:15 hehe 15:45:42 I have enough maintenance on my plate right now, sorry ;) 15:45:56 Aw. 15:46:58 Also, hmmm, Lisp saté! 15:47:21 ? 15:47:30 your typo 15:47:33 lisp sate 15:47:59 I guess that's not an English word 15:48:01 lisp psate. I just transposed the #\s and the #\a. 15:48:26 yes 15:48:27 I do that when I'm typing fast for some reason, even though they're on the same hand. It's odd. 15:48:51 In Dutch, saté means "satay" 15:49:09 I had heard it in English before, but didn't know the spelling differed 15:50:52 oh, wikipedia says it can also be spelled "sate" 15:55:05 Oh. This is where my Unicode-deficient IRC setup causes problems. 15:55:08 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@b52-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:55:20 ah 15:55:26 Also, this is making me hungry. 15:55:28 :) 15:57:00 I demand food 15:58:17 *offby1* hides his cat 15:58:35 ! 15:58:51 Should I hide mine too? 15:58:58 SHOULD WE BE WORRIED? 15:59:09 Satay can be made from nearly anything. 16:01:20 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-32-210.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 16:01:22 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-32-210.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 16:01:29 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-32-210.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 16:02:26 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-4-143.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:06:25 -!- Azuvix [~user@174-19-225-8.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:27 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.132.14] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t 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