00:15:59 -!- chris_bryant [~chrisbrya@cpe-75-84-188-152.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:43 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:55 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 00:29:30 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:31:25 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:31:31 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 00:32:41 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:45:27 DerGuteMoritz: I don't know if anyone uses DO in "real" programs, but certainly I've used it in a cheap implementation of fibonacci numbers. :-P http://codepad.org/OiyzRyZE 00:45:47 DerGuteMoritz: But certainly for any serious looping I'd normally use named LET, or (once I get the hang of it) foof-loop. 00:46:01 yeah :-) 00:46:21 DO is kind of clunky 00:46:36 Quite, and most of the time it's more easily written as named LETs, so. 00:57:06 I use DO pretty often. 00:58:18 cky: I avoid "do", but only because I can never remember the syntax. 01:04:49 offby1: I know DO's syntax like the back of my hand, but unless it's somehow more readable than the equivalent named LET, I prefer the latter. 01:05:32 DerGuteMoritz: I guess Riastradh just proved that real programs do use DO. :-) 01:07:44 offby1: Given any DO expression, I can easily (in my head) macroexpand that into the equivalent named LET version. But the converse doesn't often apply. :-P 01:08:05 % find mit-scheme/src -name '*.scm' | xargs fgrep -i '(do ' | wc -l 01:08:06 399 01:08:15 Wow, not bad. 01:09:24 cky: I admire that you elevate readability over write-ability. Would that more programmers did. 01:10:36 offby1: :-) Something our workplace instituted a year ago was mandatory peer reviews. After doing any number of peer reviews for people, one can easily understand the benefits of readability. 01:11:47 (i.e., I start to have to critique people's code for readability, not just correctness, just for my own sanity.) 01:13:27 we do reviews too, but ... 01:15:09 Racket has that count at 166. 01:16:51 Actually, many of them are bogus. 01:18:55 eli: It at least still answers DerGuteMoritz point, which is that DO does get used in real code. Even if its occurrence is...comparatively infrequent. 01:20:01 I removed some bogus mentions (turns out to be a popular generic name for a quick helper). 01:20:16 Then removed occurrences from srfi code and from benchmark suites. 01:20:23 And that leaves 23. 01:20:43 So, s/infrequent/*INFREQUENT*/ 01:21:31 -!- Lizard46 [~Lizard46@173-166-26-206-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 01:24:03 Hahahahaha. 01:24:41 A quick glance through the output of grep on MIT Scheme shows only one false positive. 01:26:10 In the racket case there were a probably 2-3 files with a local `do' binding (or an argument) that was called many times. 01:27:21 offby1: The `compile' trick works also with errors. 01:27:47 So that turns it from a cute discovery to an impressive one. 01:28:15 I've had my irc disconnected a few times when I was running something using the default shell command. 01:32:17 I wonder why one would ever want M-! (not C-u M-!) to block Emacs? 01:34:00 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-251.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 01:35:44 -!- Hydr4 is now known as Hal9k 01:36:06 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@24-107-60-232.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:36:06 Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 01:36:44 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-147-100.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:37:31 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-42.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:16 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:47:39 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:50:13 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 01:52:41 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-46-76.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:53:19 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-46-76.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 02:00:48 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-46-76.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:57 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:10:42 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-129.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 02:14:19 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:28:14 Riastradh: Do you have a hackaround? 02:29:46 Hackaround? 02:29:57 For? 02:30:17 For `shell-command' blocking Emacs. 02:30:31 grettke [~grettke@cpe-65-30-30-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:31:15 I just think that rebinding it (the key I actually use) to do something based on `compile' sounds like a nice way around it, but perhaps there are better tricks. 02:31:53 No, I don't. It would probably be best to have a wrapper that calls `shell-command' if there is a prefix argument and `compile' if not. 02:32:39 Yeah, something like that. 02:33:50 (I already use my own wrapper anyway. Eg, sets "$f" to the filename, a numeric prefix jumps to a shell with that specific number, etc.) 02:39:27 -!- Azuvix [~user@174-19-225-8.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:30 -!- grettke [~grettke@cpe-65-30-30-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:51:31 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-251.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:52:44 timj_ [~timj@e176196057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:55:19 Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 02:55:58 -!- timj [~timj@e176198147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:56:23 You can juse use `async-shell-command'. 03:00:06 You mean `dired-do-async-shell-command'? 03:03:07 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:29 No, just `async-shell-command' in Emacs 23. 03:07:52 Oh, and apparently just adding & to a normal `shell-command` works too. 03:09:09 Apparently new to 23.2. 03:12:55 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:46 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighhttt] 03:16:57 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:21:30 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:22:08 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:32 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 03:27:25 foof: I'm using 23.1, and there is no such command; and I'm pretty sure that adding a `&' worked earlier too, but does that crappily (little control on the popup buffer size etc). 03:28:45 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:40:39 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 03:47:51 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:47:59 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:50:08 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-161-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:50:43 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-161-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:54:21 Right, like I said new to 23.2. 03:55:35 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 03:55:46 The popup behavior is the same as always - if you want to control it, create and prepare the *Async Shell Command* buffer in a manually sized window. 03:56:10 I think a lot of Emacs' popup defaults are terrible. 04:03:32 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 04:07:05 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:35 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:08:10 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:37 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:09:39 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:06 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:14:34 -!- luz [~davids@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 04:14:43 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:14:55 mobile_ [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:15:36 quiet time here too ? 04:16:07 -!- mobile_ [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:14 mobile [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:21:27 -!- mobile [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:34 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:46 If I say (define-syntax name (syntax-rules (a b c) ... 04:21:48 what is the a b c in syntax-rules? 04:21:50 I've only ever used it with () there 04:22:12 mobile [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:23:53 -!- mobile [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:42 aisa: literals to match in the pattern body 04:28:06 foof: thank you, this makes sense now with what I'm looking at. 04:48:34 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:57:23 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-40-104.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:38:31 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:43:07 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-220.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:49:41 Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-220.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:50:23 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@3.148.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:50:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.153] has joined #scheme 05:50:55 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:51:02 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:53:48 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-220.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:56:26 http://gitorious.org/koan ! 06:07:38 hohoho [~hohoho@bm210-148-115-94.bmobile.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:26:57 Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-220.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:31:35 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 06:38:43 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-220.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45:40 Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-220.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:49:48 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-220.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:56:14 not sure what this has to do with scheme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dDDAr9Gbek 06:56:47 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-254-45.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:05:49 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:18:12 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@bm210-148-115-94.bmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48:50 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:04:27 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:07:42 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-22-174.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 08:13:38 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 08:34:34 Axius [~darkstar@109.97.32.166] has joined #scheme 08:34:46 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 08:38:56 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-54-82-251-115-225.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:42:30 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:52:31 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-36-242.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 09:01:58 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:35 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 09:22:08 -!- Axius [~darkstar@109.97.32.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:22:46 masm [~masm@2.80.147.100] has joined #scheme 09:34:43 Axius [~darkstar@109.97.39.95] has joined #scheme 09:51:06 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:51:27 -!- Axius [~darkstar@109.97.39.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:51:42 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 10:05:13 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:13:28 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 10:34:30 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.244] has joined #scheme 10:38:39 choas [~lars@p578F6C96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:39:25 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d6b3798-CM00222d6b3795.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 10:41:32 -!- rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:53:36 rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has joined #scheme 10:56:33 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 10:57:45 -!- chturne [~chturne@nas45-44.york.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59:20 good day everyone 11:05:46 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d6b3798-CM00222d6b3795.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:06:56 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:09:21 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:15:40 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-8-84.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 11:15:54 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-22-174.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:31:06 mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 11:44:04 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:47:47 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 11:48:42 Riastradh: what did you do to fluid-let? 12:05:41 Nibble [~Nibble@81-235-216-50-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #scheme 12:05:45 hello again 12:06:09 is there anything like sdl for scheme? 12:19:48 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:21:02 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:24:05 hmm 12:24:16 my emacs doesn't highlight stuff in .h files 12:30:20 The library? Just use your scheme's FFI to bind it 12:30:26 cc-mode helps. 12:31:25 Nibble: gauche-sdl 12:31:31 mmc: ok 12:31:38 by the way, variadic functions 12:31:51 how can I iterate over the arguments in the reverse order? 12:32:34 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-40-104.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 12:33:07 mmc: I haven't found any string-prepend function, so I am making my own 12:39:45 :( 12:44:26 -!- rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:49:41 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 12:52:45 chturne [~chturne@nas45-44.york.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 12:55:07 Nibble: how is that related to 'sdl'? 12:55:15 mmc: it is not 12:55:30 mmc: it is, however, related to what I wrote just above that 12:55:45 about variadic functions and iterate over the arguments in reverse order. 12:57:20 well, first reverse the arg. list 12:57:53 mmc: how? 12:58:20 kfg [~darkstar@92.85.211.208] has joined #scheme 12:58:36 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-111.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:00:05 Nibble: (define (func . args) (for-each print (reverse args))) 13:00:17 mmc: thanks. 13:03:17 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:04:35 hmm 13:05:22 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/2010072300]] 13:05:44 huh 13:05:50 wth is pastebin.com up to 13:06:04 *ski* wonders whether Nibble wants `(string-reverse-append "foo" "bar")' to yield `"barfoo"' 13:06:05 mmc: http://pastebin.com/UQKEadnr 13:06:11 ski: yep. 13:06:21 I think. 13:07:05 *ski* notes there's an `string-concatenate-reverse' in SRFI-13 13:07:09 skiError: too few arguments - received 1 but expected 2: # 13:08:21 see 13:09:08 ski: but the thing is I want to make my own. 13:09:18 I don't see what is wrong with mah code 13:09:38 how did you call it ? 13:10:18 (string-prepend "test" "testt") 13:10:23 (also, i would avoid using `set!', if there's no special reason to prefer it (and there is no such reason, here)) 13:10:43 okay, so is should use set instead? 13:11:17 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 13:11:30 .. oh 13:11:35 your indentation is wrong 13:11:47 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 13:11:54 (or rather, your bracketing .. but indenting propertly would make it stand out better) 13:12:34 you have called `for-each' with only one argument, while it expected two (as the error message said) 13:12:50 hotblack23 [~jh@p57BD6054.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:12:52 Nibble : no, there is no `set' 13:13:16 you could use direct recursion with an accumulator parameter, instead 13:13:39 possibly tidied up a bit with a named `let' 13:13:53 or `do' could probably also be used 13:14:10 ski: I am new, could you give an example? 13:14:57 consider a procedure to sum up all the numbers in a list 13:15:06 a direct version could be 13:15:23 (define (sum-list number-list) 13:15:37 (if (pair? number-list) 13:15:53 (+ (car number-list) 13:16:10 (sum-list (cdr number-list))) 13:16:20 0)) 13:16:27 hmm 13:17:20 a version, using an accumulator (which in this case would become describe an iterative *process* (even though it is written recursively)) could be 13:17:33 (define (sum-list number-list) 13:17:54 (define (sum-list-onto number-list current-sum) 13:18:06 (if (pair? number-list) 13:18:29 (sum-list-onto (cdr number-list) 13:18:50 (+ (car number-list) current-sum)) 13:18:57 current-sum)) 13:19:06 (sum-list-onto number-list 0)) 13:19:20 just a quick question 13:19:27 yes ? 13:19:47 nvm 13:20:18 the latter version is the iterative version, which more closely corresponds to what is known as `while'-loops in some other languages 13:20:58 `sum-list-onto' calls itself recursively, in such a way that the result of the recursive call will be the result of the current call (and thus the top call) 13:21:07 Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 13:21:34 so, there is nothing to remember to do inside the current call of `sum-list-onto', *after* the recursive call has finished 13:21:44 i.e. tail recursion 13:21:52 this is what makes it iterative 13:22:19 otoh, the former version needs to remember to add the result of the recursive call to `sum-list' with the current element of the list 13:22:45 which means that in that case, some kind of stack is needed to remember what to do after the recursive calls 13:23:16 therefore, that former version doesn't describe an *iterative* process, but instead a (properly) recursive one 13:23:55 if this was haskell, I would make it a list of lists (the argument that is) and then reverse the list, and then append those. 13:24:00 can I do something similar here? 13:24:14 yes 13:24:35 :) 13:24:47 (though if this was haskell, you could also write a recursive version, instead of just using `reverse' and `concat') 13:25:22 ski: I know, but since I don't know how to do it this way in scheme, well, is there anything that is similar to concat?) 13:26:40 well, in SRFI-13, there's `string-concatenate' 13:27:20 ski: transforms a string into a list of characters? 13:27:43 (but, if you want more work, you can use a plain `string-append' to append two strings at a time together .. somewhat similar to what you attempted to do in your paste, only correct, and not using mutation) 13:28:21 no, `string-concatenate' transforms a list of *strings* to a *string* 13:28:31 (by concatenating them, in order) 13:28:37 oh 13:28:43 my fault, thought of the wrong thing. 13:29:12 (in Haskell lingo, that is `stringConcatenate :: [String] -> String') 13:31:06 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:31:42 ski: what editor do you use for scheme? 13:31:54 *ski* mostly uses Emacs 13:32:06 ski: so do I, is there any scheme mode? 13:32:59 -!- kfg [~darkstar@92.85.211.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:32:59 also, lol http://blolpics.se/33744 13:33:00 there's one called `scheme-mode' 13:33:23 also, `paredit.el' is often(?) used with Scheme 13:33:25 kfg [~darkstar@92.85.211.208] has joined #scheme 13:33:29 I am using paredit 13:34:38 what about quack? 13:35:14 *ski* hasn't tried it 13:35:30 shit... md5 sum check fails on quack 13:36:32 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:22 woho, I fixed it 13:38:01 wth 13:38:08 it highlights all brackets red -__- 13:40:34 hotblack231 [~jh@p57BD76A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:42:16 tip of the day guys 13:42:19 install quack 13:43:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:43:31 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p57BD6054.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:17 Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 13:49:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:49:28 or wait, don't. 13:49:44 it messed with everything 13:49:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 13:50:43 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:52:52 -!- Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:04 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 13:58:43 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:04:28 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-129.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:07 Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #scheme 14:06:24 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 14:06:49 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:09:27 turns out one could easily fix that 14:09:28 cool 14:10:15 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:11:13 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 14:18:30 -!- kfg [~darkstar@92.85.211.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:22:03 Nibble : .. did you get your `string-append-reverse' to work ? 14:22:49 nope 14:33:00 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:34:13 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:36:23 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 14:41:28 ski: ideas? 14:41:52 what have you got, so far ? 14:41:57 lisppaste: url? 14:41:57 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 14:42:29 ski: well, the code I pasted before that is not working. And the idea about reversing a list of the arguments 14:42:38 and just applying string-append on those. 14:43:02 the thing is, I don't know how variadic arguments looks, are they just lists? 14:43:24 no .. but they can be converted to lists 14:43:49 ski: what are they then, I know I can use for-each on them to grab individual ones. 14:43:52 and you can apply a procedure to arguments which are the elements of a given list, with `apply' 14:44:01 if you say 14:44:09 (define (foo . arguments) 14:44:13 ..arguments..) 14:44:32 then `arguments' is an ordinary list, containing all the actual parameters given to `foo' 14:45:10 but if you want to apply `foo' to the arguments which are stored in the list `the-argument-list', then you can't say 14:45:16 (foo the-argument-list) 14:45:32 since that will only pass one argument to `foo' (namely the whole list) 14:45:48 to pass the elements of `the-argument-list' as separate arguments to `foo' you need to say 14:45:53 (apply foo the-argument-list) 14:46:09 what is the difference between apply and map? 14:46:38 Nibble : that's why i said variadic arguments are not lists -- they aren't, but they can be converted to lists, and back, as above 14:47:07 :/ 14:47:24 `map' applies a given procedure repeatedly, in each call passing one element of the given list (or corresponding elements, if you pass more than one list) 14:48:04 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:48:20 `apply' just applies a given procedure with arguments being the elements of a given list 14:48:25 in symbols : 14:48:48 (map foo (list a b c)) 14:49:01 = (list (foo a) (foo b) (foo c)) 14:49:02 while 14:49:10 (apply foo (list a b c)) 14:49:18 = (foo a b c) 14:50:26 (here `=' means that the left-hand-side evaluates as the right-hand-side) 14:50:32 Nibble : clear ? 14:50:51 ski: hold on 14:51:44 rudybot: eval (define (square n) (* n n)) 14:52:00 rudybot: eval (map square (list 0 1 2 3)) 14:52:00 ski: ; Value: (0 1 4 9) 14:52:13 (map string-append (reverse (list "test" "testt"))) 14:52:15 that works 14:52:20 a start, at least. 14:52:22 :) 14:53:08 rudybot: eval (map string-append (reverse (list "abcd" "012345" "?!."))) 14:53:08 ski: ; Value: ("?!." "012345" "abcd") 14:53:40 rudybot: eval (map string-append (list "?!." "abcd" "012345")) 14:53:40 ski: ; Value: ("?!." "abcd" "012345") 14:54:00 rudybot: eval (list (string-append "?!.") (string-append "abcd") (string-append "012345")) 14:54:00 ski: ; Value: ("?!." "abcd" "012345") 14:54:14 string append does nothing since it is given only one argument 14:54:16 :/ 14:54:24 Nibble : you'll see that that piece of code will call `string-append' multiple times. each time passing a single string 14:55:13 *ski* notes that he forgot to swap the order of `"abcd"' and `"012345"' .. imagine i had done that :) 14:55:15 rudybot: eval (apply string-append (reverse (list "abcd" "012345" "?!."))) 14:55:15 Quadrescence: your sandbox is ready 14:55:16 Quadrescence: ; Value: "?!.012345abcd" 14:58:08 rudybot: eval (list->string (apply append (map string->list (reverse (list "abcd" "012345" "?!."))))) 14:58:08 Quadrescence: ; Value: "?!.012345abcd" 15:00:18 rudybot: how do i get you to require SRFI-13? 15:00:18 ski: SRFI 60 : Integers and Bits provides functions with names like 'logand', 'logior', and 'logxor'. Except it's not the logical operation. It also provides correct names like bitwise-and, etc. Does anyone know how the 'logical' versions of the names got in there? Is there a difference in opinion on the meaning of 'logical' operations vs. bitwise? 15:00:33 rudybot: eval (require srfi/13) 15:00:38 luz [~davids@186.205.37.15] has joined #scheme 15:01:01 rudybot: eval (string-compare "foo" "bar") 15:01:02 chandler: error: procedure string-compare: expects at least 5 arguments, given 2: "foo" "bar" 15:01:07 Oh, right. 15:01:27 ski: Anyway, that's how. 15:01:31 rudybot: eval (string-concatenate (list "" "0" "12" "345" "6789")) 15:01:31 ski: ; Value: "0123456789" 15:01:35 chandler: ty 15:02:42 *ski* foolishly tried `(require (library (srfi 13)))' and `(require (srfi 13))' before 15:06:18 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 15:08:52 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has joined #scheme 15:10:15 ski: how did you require srfi 13? 15:10:24 as chandler showed 15:10:42 (and that's for PLT Scheme^W^WRacket) 15:10:50 in csi, that doesn 15:10:53 doesn't work* 15:11:04 -!- hotblack231 [~jh@p57BD76A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:11:16 chicken presumably has its own way of doing that 15:12:07 :/ 15:13:56 Nibble: (use (srfi 13)) 15:14:25 there we go 15:19:17 choas_ [~lars@p578F6C96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:22:10 -!- choas_ [~lars@p578F6C96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:43 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 15:25:13 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 15:40:59 Kerrick [~Kerrick@67.224.68.56] has joined #scheme 15:42:02 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:50:37 araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #scheme 15:50:37 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 15:50:37 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 16:02:44 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 16:03:13 ski: I have to say I like the way haskell accomplishes it. 16:03:15 reverseAppend xs = concat $ reverse xs 16:04:05 (define (string-append-reverse . list-of-strings) 16:04:20 (string-concatenate (reverse list-of-strings))) 16:04:24 is more or less the same 16:07:17 ski: :) That is what I was after. 16:07:19 clean and simple. 16:07:58 now implement the same function, using `string-append' on two strings at a time ! 16:09:41 maybe closer to the haskell version: (define string-append-reverse (compose string-concatenate reverse list)) 16:10:39 DerGuteMoritz: Hahahaha. 16:10:48 :-) 16:12:14 DerGuteMoritz: You might have seen my fairly-functional version of compose, also: http://refactormycode.com/codes/836 16:13:19 I don't see what is funny except the lack of paranthesis or something like that 16:13:47 Nibble: It's basically completely composed-based, so it's "even more functional". 16:13:55 *compose-based 16:14:01 ''.join(["Test", "Powerful", "Foo", "Bar"][::-1]) 16:14:04 ^python 16:14:06 So, the entirety of the function is just a composition of a bunch of other functions. 16:14:14 cky : but the Haskell version Nibble showed wasn't .. 16:14:30 ski: I know that. But that's why I had a chuckle at DerGuteMoritz's suggestion. 16:14:47 Not that it was more Haskell-like per se (at least not Nibble's version thereof), but that it was "functional taken to the extreme". 16:14:59 ah okay, I don't know what haskell's compose is called, just assumed 16:15:21 reverseAppend = concat . reverse -- composition in Haskell 16:15:28 thus the 'maybe' :-) 16:16:02 ah now that's even shortere! 16:18:43 oh yeah, partial function application and the awesome dot operator. 16:18:45 mean 16:19:56 well, chicken has o as an alias for compose, kind of close to a dot :-) 16:21:18 adu_ [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:21:55 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:03 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-254-45.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:26:48 -!- chandler [~n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:20 chandler [~n@new.unmutual.info] has joined #scheme 16:27:45 -!- chandler is now known as Guest24533 16:28:42 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:28:55 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:29:49 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:29:53 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:05 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:30:07 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:17 DerGuteMoritz: Just for fun, I posted a new version of my compose function that uses _only_ internal defines, no direct lambdas. :-P 16:31:09 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 16:31:24 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:32:46 atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has joined #scheme 16:33:24 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:34:04 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:01 cky: neat :-) 16:35:33 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:36:17 -!- Guest24533 [~n@new.unmutual.info] has quit [Changing host] 16:36:17 Guest24533 [~n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has joined #scheme 16:36:34 -!- Guest24533 is now known as chandler 16:36:38 *ski* idly wonders how to coerce into showing anything 16:36:58 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 16:38:10 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:49:22 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 16:50:59 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 16:57:40 -!- chturne [~chturne@nas45-44.york.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:11 ski: It doesn't show anything? Oh dear. 17:08:35 not in my fine, fine w3m, no 17:09:19 (iirc, links to `pastie.org' can usually be fixed by appending `.txt' .. but that doesn't appear to work, here) 17:09:55 It works for me on w3m here, but, the line numbers appear above the actual code. :-( 17:10:37 I guess the site uses some sort of stylesheet (which w3m doesn't use of course) to line the line numbers up with the code. 17:11:53 But if you still have no joy, I'll paste a copy on my codepad account. 17:13:03 Or even lisppaste. 17:13:11 Maybe I'll just do that. Then I don't even have to log in. :-P 17:14:11 easy4 [~easy4@c-174-60-36-128.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:14:13 cky pasted "compose" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/115637 17:14:22 ski: ^^--- 17:14:26 ty 17:15:06 mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 17:15:47 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:48 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:44 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:16:47 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:17:46 ski: That's my "just for fun" version that uses purely internal defines. My more-serious version just uses one internal define (make-chain) and puts everything else in lambdas. 17:17:49 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:55 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:59 ski: So, I'm really not trying to obfuscate my code or anything. :-p 17:18:34 some kind of `where'-construct would make this easier to read, imo :) 17:18:46 Where's that macro defined? 17:18:54 nowhere i know 17:19:07 Hmmmm.... 17:19:20 you could define 17:19:25 (define-syntax where 17:19:31 (syntax-rules () 17:19:55 ((where ?expression ?definition ...) 17:20:11 (let () ?definition ... ?expression)))) 17:20:13 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:20:13 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:20:13 e.g. 17:24:06 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27F4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:24:24 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 17:27:43 -!- easy4 [~easy4@c-174-60-36-128.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: easy4] 17:28:53 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:29:33 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 17:30:01 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 17:31:32 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 17:33:56 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:37:46 ski: ...example pending? :-) 17:38:09 .. oh, you require an example, as well ? :) 17:39:07 ski: Well, you said "e.g.", so. :-P 17:39:19 ski: It doesn't matter to me, I pretty much can see what the macro does. 17:39:29 well, that was like " e.g." :) 17:39:36 Oh, I see. :-P 17:40:09 So it's just a way to put the definitions after the body. 17:40:13 (the example being one possible variant of defining `where' .. another variant would be to have bindings (like in `let') instead of definitions) 17:40:17 right 17:40:27 Except, I don't see how to make that useful with all those nested internal definitions, unless you're writing lots of "where" forms. 17:40:41 sometimes, imo, that can improve readability a lot 17:40:50 (consider named-`let') 17:41:02 *nods* 17:42:39 yeah .. in your case, the original code gets an unfair bonus by merging the definition-blocks with the bodies of their next outer definitions, instead of requiring an explicit construct 17:43:42 Right, I was using define purely as a shorthand here. 17:55:53 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@67.224.68.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:07:18 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:52 Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-220.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:10:04 chturne [~chturne@nas45-44.york.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 18:10:30 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:17 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 18:18:15 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 18:19:33 -!- adu_ [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu_] 18:19:37 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:21:11 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:25:40 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:59 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 18:31:46 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:32:26 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 18:35:17 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/2010072300]] 18:40:10 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:24 Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 18:47:49 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:57:20 mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:59:52 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-124.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:00:39 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 19:01:05 hmm 19:01:41 Hmm? 19:01:46 so basically every compiler/interpreter uses a different include-thingie? 19:02:19 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-111.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:45 Heh...uh, yes. 19:04:16 that seems a tad... counter productive :& 19:05:03 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e065b44.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 19:05:29 Well, not like you can force people to do thing a certain way 19:05:38 You can always stick to one implementation 19:05:46 *things 19:09:10 drdo: that's what standards are for. 19:09:46 Nibble: People can choose to conform to standards are not 19:10:12 drdo: sure, but there are include/require standard right? 19:10:17 The r6rs standard does support modules 19:11:26 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:12:19 I doesn't really bug me, as i think the committee model doesn't really suit language development 19:12:57 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-226-26.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 19:14:30 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:28 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:24:12 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-255-34-109.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:24:12 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-255-34-109.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:24:12 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:26:44 schmir [~schmir@p54A90CCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:30:58 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90CCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:17 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:35:05 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:37:21 schmir [~schmir@p54A91ABB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:46:30 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91ABB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:44 jao [~user@83.32.171.90] has joined #scheme 19:54:44 schmir [~schmir@p54A9179B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:04:01 femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:06:26 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:26 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-48-17.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 20:06:33 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:07:14 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:08:18 -!- Blkt` is now known as Blkt 20:08:23 mejja, something wrong with my change to FLUID-LET? 20:08:30 (aside from the bugs I already fixed) 20:08:48 what bug did oyou fix the last few hours? 20:09:08 None in the last few hours. 20:10:30 Try: (define (with-printf thunk) (fluid-let (((access flonum-unparser-hook (->environment '(runtime number))) flonum-unparse-with-printf)) (thunk))) 20:12:54 Grmble. Eventually perhaps we can just get rid of FLUID-LET... 20:17:32 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-248-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:17:56 ..or slay a dragon (4) 20:18:06 Fix is coming once I finish a three-stage build of a much larger change. 20:20:41 (Soon it will cease to be necessary to write (quotient x (expt 2 k)) and similar...) 20:21:53 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:22:44 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:03 -!- atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:26:04 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:26:10 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:26:19 mmc [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 20:27:59 ...Is there something wrong with the dragon4 code? 20:32:31 evening all 20:32:40 Hi. 20:32:50 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-226-26.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:28 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-226-26.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 20:39:31 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-124.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:27 -!- Nibble [~Nibble@81-235-216-50-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 20:42:51 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6C96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:25 Riastradh: http://paste.lisp.org/display/72373 20:44:50 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27F4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:03 mickn [~mickn@unaffiliated/mickn] has joined #scheme 20:49:44 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:50:51 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-9-211.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:51:47 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A9179B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:52:59 OK. Patches welcome! 21:00:08 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:00:12 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:03:13 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 21:04:18 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:04:20 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 21:04:24 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:08:05 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 21:11:10 -!- mickn [~mickn@unaffiliated/mickn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:18 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:38 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 21:12:33 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-5-254.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:13:25 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.197.39] has joined #scheme 21:14:05 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:17 klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:20:06 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 21:24:49 elly, are you still at Google in Cambridge? 21:25:01 I am, yes 21:25:03 why? 21:25:46 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 21:26:37 Oh, just curious. 21:27:39 ^^ 21:27:42 I am having a very good time there 21:27:47 code is being written 21:28:33 there is a great poly scene in Boston, I've found 21:28:45 Any Scheming in your vicinity there at Google? 21:28:57 not that I'm aware of 21:29:05 I can't really scheme at work, unfortunately 21:30:11 I'm working on http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os, which is largely open-source code 21:30:16 which all seems to be C or C++ 21:31:13 Google has gobbled up a lot of the Schemers from the AI lab, although I think many of them have been transplanted to the wrong coast. 21:31:23 that happens from time to time 21:31:38 I like being in Cambridge a lot 21:31:49 and one of my primaries is here, which is also good 21:33:10 *elly* bounces :) 21:33:59 how about you, Riastradh? 21:37:35 Oh, I just thought of this because I was talking with some AI Lab Schemers the other day about how MIT Scheme is maintained almost entirely by Googlers these days. 21:38:43 I have never used MIT scheme 21:39:14 but like 21:39:17 how are you doing? 21:39:25 I forget what you do for a living, if you ever told us 21:39:26 I'm OK. I still exist. 21:39:33 your use of tor suggests that you didn't 21:40:24 He's Tom Bombadil. 21:40:41 Riastradh: hope you got Schemers to BS with up there 21:41:08 After all, I've never had any problem with ringwraiths; that should be evidence enough of who I am. 21:41:22 heh 21:41:33 elly: if you can talk about it, any chance of Chromium getting NoScript-level add-on security features? 21:42:00 hm, there doesn't appear to be a gentoo package for mit-scheme 21:42:07 Adamant: I do not work on chromium, sorry 21:42:14 How about w3m-level take-off security features, whereby support for JavaScript &c. is physically removed from the address space? 21:42:14 ah 21:42:16 the OS 21:42:22 Riastradh: if only 21:42:29 sadly that will not happen 21:42:42 you can disable javascript altogether in chromium 21:42:48 so making Javascript and the same-origin security model suck less is the only real option 21:42:49 that will not cause it not to load the library, though 21:43:11 especially because nothing works without Javascript anymore, even if it has good programmed fallbacks. 21:43:18 that's not true 21:43:29 ? 21:43:39 ok, Gmail and Google Maps 21:43:45 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:58 lots of other stuff actually requires Javascript to work optimially 21:44:06 'optimally' != 'at all' 21:44:28 true, but it's more about the usefulness degrading a lot 21:44:31 getting anything remotely complex to work optimally without javascript frequently involves a nightmarish descent into flash/java/activex/silverlight/... 21:44:56 Gmail and Google Maps are annoying to use without Javascript, and that's with very good design 21:44:57 sure, but a lot of the usefulness is because of javascript (or a similar level of power provided some other way) 21:45:09 yeah, that's what I'm getting at 21:45:15 that's because HTML+CSS without javascript just isn't the way to express an actual application 21:45:24 right 21:45:31 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:45:32 we're using apps more and more now 21:45:35 yes 21:45:42 wait, what are we arguing about 21:45:49 semantics :P 21:45:51 ah 21:45:52 fun 21:45:55 yayy! 21:45:56 :P 21:46:40 anyway 21:46:47 you can turn off JS, it breaks a lot of things; "deal" 21:47:49 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:02 Personally, I find that it improves a lot of stuff. 21:48:11 turning off JS? 21:48:16 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #scheme 21:48:34 Example: I can go to a news web site and read the text, rather than being bombarded by JavaScripted animation and advertisements and doohickeys that interfere with what I'm trying to read. 21:48:43 I basically only start firefox for one reason, which is my bank's website 21:48:53 everything else I read in links/snownews/mutt 21:49:22 I keep needing to build a decent secure LiveCD for people to do internet banking on 21:49:44 I recently started directing all my HTTP traffic over Tor and it's proven to be /almost/ fast enough to use as I normally do 21:49:56 you must be lucky 21:50:06 oh wait, you're using text internet 21:50:09 then yeah 21:52:03 It is a little frustrating that w3m is synchronous. Eventually I'll move it into Emacs where it can be run asynchronously, and the latency of Tor will become irrelevant. 21:52:46 a while ago I decided that I wanted to funnel all my internet traffic over Tor 21:52:49 I am mostly doing this 21:53:00 I can't tolerate the slow in that regard 21:53:06 I've settled for everything over SSL 21:53:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:09 Riastradh: http://code.google.com/p/ejacs/ 21:53:09 or SSH, etc. 21:53:11 *mejja* hides 21:53:30 remaining difficulties include: whenever I have to stream media, using websites that do not support proper secure access 21:54:04 actually, I would like a Emacs based around Javascript as a base scripting language with Scheme or other Lisp variants as another option 21:54:28 because it would let a lot more people use Emacs, and because ELisp needs to go 22:00:20 *offby1* laughs cruelly 22:03:44 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:03:53 I would not like that :P 22:04:03 I would like if scheme replaced elisp 22:04:16 but I'm not exactly ponying up the hours to get it done 22:04:19 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:04:37 Who is working on that? 22:04:57 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 22:05:26 I use an Emacs written in Scheme every day... 22:05:36 Edwin? 22:05:40 Yes. 22:05:46 hrm 22:05:50 *franki^* nods 22:05:53 no portage package :( 22:05:56 Maybe I should work on that 22:08:38 Edwin is nowhere near GNU Emacs today, of course; it started as a clone of GNU Emacs 18, but did not keep up with GNU Emacs. 22:10:55 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e065b44.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:40 Is there any effort, or even desire, to keep up with GNU Emacs? I previously saw it as an "Emacs-like Scheme IDE" rather than something that wanted to do everything that Emacs does. 22:11:51 Maybe that's just due to a shortage of developers. 22:13:17 abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.10.96.165] has joined #scheme 22:13:27 About four people on the planet care about Edwin, as far as I know. Maybe three. Originally it was written as a clone of GNU Emacs; now it is just MIT Scheme's editor, which I occasionally change the behaviour of to suit my whims. 22:14:20 Heh 22:14:22 Hey, dont forget Euroland. +1. 22:15:14 OK, four or five, rather than three or four. 22:19:27 Do we want more people to care about it? 22:19:28 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:20:32 If you want to care about it, you're welcome to! I'm not interested in marketing it, though, and I don't have any grandiose plans for it. 22:22:30 hrm, mit-scheme requires bootstrapping 22:24:15 by the way, has foof been around? I wonder if anything's going on with chibi-scheme 22:24:16 I'd like to care about it. But Emacs seems to do so much more, and I very much doubt my ability to make any difference to that situation. 22:24:49 elly: I've been very busy starting a new job. 22:24:53 That's why we distribute binaries, elly. 22:24:55 oh, hey foof :) 22:24:56 cool! 22:25:58 I may be able to divert 20% of my time to chibi, though, which would make for huge progress. 22:26:09 is there something about it you'd like help with? 22:27:43 there's one known bug in he exception system which just requires a large block of time for me to work through 22:28:14 after that I want to polish up the code and docs and flesh out the tests for a 0.4 release 22:28:22 *elly* nods 22:28:23 cool :) 22:28:54 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:34:09 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:02 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:35:52 Riastradh: Would it be at all appreciated if I were to test MIT-Scheme's 6001 package's compatibility with code from SICP and the problem sets here: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/psets/ and file bug reports for any errors I find. Or does nobody care any more? :) 22:36:40 Sure, go ahead. 22:36:54 I have on my todo list to fix up and include the picture language code in MIT Scheme. 22:37:05 Cool 22:38:40 Riastradh: and matt's Gtk code, please 22:39:28 It's up to him to commit that... 22:40:53 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-198.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:52:49 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:54:55 mickn [~mickn@unaffiliated/mickn] has joined #scheme 22:55:39 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:52 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.197.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:51 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:18:42 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-212-94.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:23:45 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-212-94.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:45 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:35:55 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:26 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 23:45:08 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-5-254.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:46:14 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 23:48:21 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:49:51 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-26-199.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:51:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:12 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 23:56:32 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:18 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]