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PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #scheme 08:36:36 any good scheme or any at all web frameworks for it? 08:37:14 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-117-216.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:40:22 PascalHunger: awful, siscweb, sunet surflets, continue, racket servlets 08:40:25 Take your pick 08:44:36 sjamaan: for a new person is this a good place to start? 08:44:45 I dont even know scheme but consider me a veteran programmer hehe 08:45:28 "this" being web frameworks? 08:47:20 sjamaan: this being scheme sorry 08:48:05 I don't understand the question. What's a "new person"? 08:48:08 Blkt [~user@93-33-132-91.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 08:48:56 sjamaan: sorry I just want to learn a new language 08:49:25 over the past decade I have used c/c++ perl php python ruby ocaml recently smalltalk which is nice and was looking to try either common lisp or scheme 08:49:48 scheme is a little simpler and cleaner, which may make it easier to learn 08:49:52 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-49-113.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 08:51:28 good day everyone! 08:51:40 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 08:51:44 sjamaan: code examples still make me go -_- 08:51:50 but maybe thats a good thing? heh 08:51:56 sure, why not? 08:52:05 have you ever used smalltalk before? 08:52:18 I haven't, but I read about it ;) 08:52:40 how is the debugging etc in scheme compared to that? I assume dr scheme is the recommended way to make applications? 08:53:32 I don't know if drscheme (I think it's drracket nowadays?) is the recommended way 08:53:44 If you use Racket, it's a good place to start though 08:53:57 I get the impression that many people still prefer to use emacs, even with Racket 08:54:17 But I'm not a Racketeer, so maybe I'm wrong there 08:55:18 For some Schemes, there's emacs integration like slime or geiser, which is apparently really cool 08:55:23 I've yet to try that 08:55:44 I use emacs 08:56:13 sjamaan: i mean is scheme good for web dev? hehe I mean for production stuff. I would like to move away from python and php a little 08:59:09 I think it is pretty good for that 08:59:34 For example, the Chicken wiki runs on 100% scheme code, as does the Scheme community wiki 09:00:07 And we have a documentation server called "chickadee" which is also running on pure scheme 09:00:15 (we = chicken community) 09:00:27 sjamaan: You think Scheme is pretty good for almost everything. :) 09:00:50 Of course I do :) 09:01:21 But I wouldn't use it for, say, operating system programming just yet 09:08:54 sjamaan: will scheme ever have a native code compiler ? 09:09:20 There are native code compilers 09:09:50 Ikarus, for example 09:10:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 09:16:22 chicken is close to that? 09:16:44 If you look closely gcc isn't even a native code compiler as it spits out assembler 09:16:53 All Scheme-to-C compilers will obviously also generate native code through the C compiler 09:28:07 doesn't ocaml go straight to asm? 09:32:25 Dunno 09:34:23 alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 09:41:59 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has joined #scheme 09:43:05 sjamaan: well imma give it a try 09:43:16 my problem with php and python is I dont find them "fun" I really do not 09:43:25 scheme looks different and fun 09:44:35 Agreed 09:44:55 (ack type: 'full) 09:45:59 kuribas [~user@94-226-136-57.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 10:11:06 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 10:11:27 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:21:56 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:22:59 mmc1 [~michal@cs185051.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 10:24:12 sjamaan: downloading now heh 10:25:10 -!- mmc [~michal@cs190095.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:26:46 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:36:38 -!- kuribas [~user@94-226-136-57.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:46:36 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-135-151.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:02 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-135-151.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:49:10 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-122-156.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:17:47 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Quit: restarting] 11:18:48 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #scheme 11:22:21 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 11:26:07 luz [~davids@186.205.48.47] has joined #scheme 11:35:46 does lisp/scheme make you smarter? heh 11:44:18 only scheme, and not as much as haskell 12:09:40 Heh. 12:14:51 Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 12:18:11 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-135-151.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:45 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 12:38:18 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 12:38:18 12:38:18 -!- names: ccl-logbot stepnem Mandar luz schmir niko mmc1 pchrist_ pavelludiq alaricsp gravicappa drdo Nshag Blkt PascalHunger masm ski vu3rdd Intensity martinhex Jafet emma grettke museun pjb Hal9k rdd chandler gnomon_ Maxel lusory leppie e-future snorble rpg metasyntax` Adamant jao timj Zol nowhereman jimrees_ yorick stamourv easy4 jmcphers vinnana copumpkin pumpkin Obfuscate WLen_ alexsuraci kniu araujo githogori minion rmrfchik saccade Modius jensn_ eno 12:38:18 -!- names: roderic incubot clog ASau samth_away specbot Pepe_ nasloc__ Axioplase_ rudybot offby1 acarrico mornfall elf_ lisppaste metasyntax Crito preflex duncanm gabot adzuci nome ineiros yosafbridge Adrinael zeroish mario-goulart jay-mccarthy ray bzzbzz_ antoszka cipher felipe elly tessier fda314925 wgd jeff_ eli eldragon f3xy Fermat rotty Leonidas inimino Kovensky Khisanth sloyd alexand3r shawnps qebab futilius ecraven aoh `micro rrm3 franki^ klutometis cky 12:38:18 -!- names: dfeuer joast tonyg bremner sjamaan foof weinholt sir_lewk rapacity zbigniew certainty C-Keen saccade_ jimster tizoc danking_ DerGuteMoritz spacebat shardz 12:47:58 kuribas [~user@94-226-136-57.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 12:54:58 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:59:42 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:00:23 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:50 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 13:16:29 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:25:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.26] has joined #scheme 13:43:37 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:52:08 PascalHunger: Lisp makes you smarter than Haskell, because Lisp is a multiple-paradigm meta-programming language. 13:52:22 Haskell knows only functional programming ;-) 13:52:39 PascalHunger: but really what makes you smarter is reading sicp and watching the videos. 13:52:45 minion: tell PascalHunger about sicp 13:52:45 PascalHunger: have a look at sicp: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 13:53:59 What's this language language war non-sense? 13:54:12 double language even 13:54:14 ray started! :-) 13:54:37 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-98-200.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:54:59 There's a lot lisp can learn from haskell 13:55:03 See: Clojure 13:55:11 -!- Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 13:55:13 I don't like it. 13:55:18 Too much syntax... 13:55:40 It's the same 13:55:46 Just some built-in reader macros 13:56:03 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-98-200.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:56:16 I don't agree with all the decisions on Clojure, but it's a very good direction to head in 14:02:50 drdo: if it had reader macros that would allow be to put back the common Lisp syntax, what would be the point? 14:03:01 I already have Common Lisp! 14:03:38 On the other hand, if the features found in Clojure that don't exist in CL were implemented as libraries in CL, I'd be very interested in using them... 14:03:56 CL is a mess 14:04:12 It's useful and practical. 14:04:23 I don't disagree 14:04:36 like perl :) 14:04:50 bremner: don't exagerate! 14:05:11 OK, I agree, CL is not quite as useful as perl :) 14:05:25 I don't know, I don't use perl. 14:05:26 *bremner* hides 14:05:29 For me CL is more useful. 14:05:56 hypercube31 [~hypercube@66.90.18.146] has joined #scheme 14:06:00 and scheme is useable, contrarily to most other programming languages ;-) 14:06:38 I never quite understood why lisp didn't become very popular 14:07:04 Timing. 14:07:09 All the popular languages are slowly converging to lisp 14:07:22 It got everything right much too soon. 14:07:59 It didn't get everything right 14:08:25 But it is way more powerful and easy to use 14:35:07 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:36 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has joined #scheme 14:38:45 -!- samth_away 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client for Emacs)] 20:23:29 choas [~lars@p578F6D89.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:26:38 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91494.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:27:17 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 20:27:41 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:31:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:49 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:40:28 kuribas [~user@94-226-136-57.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 20:55:20 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.117.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:56:18 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.117.115] has joined #scheme 21:01:47 -!- ski [~hlj@c-8911e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:54 -!- grettke [~grettke@cpe-65-30-30-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:14:33 klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:22 pjb: hey, yea, im learning scheme pretty well right now 21:17:09 Everything is boring to me, PHP, Python, Ruby the only thing that is not is smalltalk and I guess now scheme 21:17:20 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #scheme 21:17:25 and smalltalk and scheme are usually considered those "other" languages in a way 21:18:11 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6D89.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:21:59 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d6b3798-CM00222d6b3795.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:53 PascalHunger: some other good "other" languages to look at are Haskell, Prolog OR Mercury, Factor OR Forth, J OR APL, and Agda OR Epigram 21:22:59 museun [~what@h-66-167-50-198.atlngahp.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #scheme 21:23:33 if you can do all of those and C and ASM, you've basically mastered most of the existing paradigms of programming 21:24:36 warning: if you are working in the field, those languages may make you dissatisfied with your job, but, they may also make you good enough to get a better job. 21:28:47 megajosh2 [~megajosh2@unaffiliated/megajosh2] has joined #scheme 21:30:36 i got to scheme and didn't move any farther than that. happy ignorance. 21:30:59 wingo: I haven't even come close to mastering the rest of them 21:31:37 basically Haskell is the only one I would claim more than familiarity and a few short lines in 21:32:56 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:33:35 haskell intimidates me 21:33:46 dont try agda :p 21:33:50 :) 21:34:11 agda is cleaner in some ways 21:34:17 but a lot more difficult in others 21:34:28 deciphering agda expressions takes forever.. 21:35:58 already used haskell quite a bit and ocaml heavily 21:36:08 it gets easier with time :) 21:36:57 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-175.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:37:52 hopefully scheme will be my final one for a while heh 21:38:06 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-175.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 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