00:01:24 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 00:01:38 Scala_ [~agscala@198.111.39.24] has joined #scheme 00:11:00 -!- adadglgmut [~steve@cpe-65-25-14-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:12:00 adadglgmut [~steve@cpe-65-25-14-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:12:35 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:14:29 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:18:42 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:34 -!- Scala_ [~agscala@198.111.39.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:30:45 jao [~user@52.Red-213-98-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:31:31 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 00:44:30 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:55 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 00:45:48 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:47:30 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:50:35 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:53:00 Golly... Out of curiosity, I looked at about:config in Epiphany, and found that for SSLv3, the cipher spec RSA-RC2-40-MD5 is enabled by default. (Epiphany 2.22.3, so this may not still be the case, but...nevertheless.) 00:53:37 Yikes. 00:54:02 It's bad enough that SSLv3 even *has* RSA-RC2-40-MD5 as a cipher spec... 00:54:44 SSLv3 was obsoleted by TLS a long time ago. 00:55:10 Well, yes. It's bad enough that anyone is still using the protocol from 1996... 00:56:30 I just set up a new installation of squeeze and noted that the desktop task included Epiphany. The machine is downstairs, but I can probably check what that version has enabled in a few minutes. 00:57:00 i haven't used epiphany in years. iceweasel in debian stable works great 00:57:35 epiphany was a reasonable alternative to pre-firefox mozilla 00:57:36 Epiphany now uses WebKit, so it's rather different than Iceweasel. 00:57:54 (That version of) Epiphany also has basically all the RC4-based cipher specs enabled by default, which, while not as unbelievably bad, is not particularly confidence-inspiring. 00:58:17 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-124-45.w92-150.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:58:36 In my observation, Epiphany is *much* faster than Firefox. 00:58:48 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-14-90.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 00:59:25 Firefox is slow to the point that it is practically unusable for me forwarded over ssh; Epiphany is not. 01:00:27 Where did you find the list of supported ciphers? 01:00:55 -!- FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-33-82.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:00:56 in iceweasel, they're the security.* preferences 01:01:14 about:config 01:01:14 Under security.ssl3. 01:01:29 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 01:01:35 There's no such thing in WebKit-based Epiphany. 01:01:52 (This is 2.30.2 from squeeze.) 01:02:15 I see. 01:02:33 No idea, then. 01:02:54 I could swear I've seen a page that will enumerate all supported SSL versions and ciphers for a browser by testing whether it connects to a specially-configured server, but my Google-fu is insufficient to find it if it actually does (still) exist. 01:04:23 Oh, that's cute. When displaying a https-protocol page, the View -> Page Security Option menu item is enabled but does nothing. 01:04:33 https://www.fortify.net/sslcheck.html 01:04:35 is that it? 01:04:54 That one just checks what it does connect at. 01:05:31 chandler: https://www.mikestoolbox.net 01:05:44 The URI you actually want is ... 01:06:10 nice 01:06:36 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 01:08:13 Phooey. I see DES, RC2, MD5... Time to hack w3m again. 01:08:24 FurnaceBoy: That works. 01:08:37 DES! lolz 01:09:29 chandler pasted "epiphany 2.30.2 from squeeze SSL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/114368 01:10:23 That looks fairly reasonable. Annoyingly, Epiphany connects without any sort of bad certificate prompt. It displays a "Security level: Broken" icon (that's what the tooltip says), but again any certificate details are missing in action. 01:10:30 Did I mention that this is the default browser in squeeze? 01:10:39 That looks a bit better. 01:10:39 ...ergh. 01:10:40 That's a regression. 01:11:14 Of course, the warning dialogue boxes are not very carefully thought through in, say, Firefox. 01:11:16 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:33 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.52] has joined #scheme 01:12:18 I think there's a middle ground between no warning and Firefox's idiotic process which requires extra effort to *not* permanently trust a given self-signed certificate. 01:13:11 Not providing any certificate viewer at all is a serious problem. 01:13:20 Someone observed to me that when a web site offers a CA certificate for a user to install, Firefox gives fewer dialogue boxes and warnings than when a web site presents a bogus certificate. 01:14:27 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=589016 01:14:42 Oh, let's just paper over the problem! 01:15:12 ... 01:16:21 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-164-27.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:16:29 karljam [~user@dsl-149-113-157.hive.is] has joined #scheme 01:16:32 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-164-27.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:17:31 I see: w3m just calls SSLeay_add_ssl_algorithms, which presumably adds everything, not just the sensible things. 01:18:48 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-223-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:11 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-223-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:20:15 There's also a Certificate Manager extension, but it too does nothing. 01:20:34 Did I (again) mention that this is the default browser in squeeze? 01:20:51 Does anybody responsible actually care??? 01:21:34 Isn't that because it's the default browser of the Gnome project? Shouldn't you take it up with them rather than Debian? 01:21:36 I suppose I'm expecting too much from the folks who gave us the great openssh key debacle of 2008. 01:22:57 the openssh debacle was due to a widespread debian convention of packaging maintainers making changes to suit their personal preferences 01:23:25 imho 01:23:28 No, correction: it's not w3m's fault for using the wrong interface; I don't think there is a *right* interface to do this in OpenSSL. 01:23:34 franki^: If Debian policy is to accept all Gnome defaults, I suppose the fault lies with the Gnome maintainers - though certainly I'd expect the Debian developers to raise this issue upstream. 01:23:42 OpenSSH? The problem was in OpenSSL, not in OpenSSH (although it affected the latter). 01:24:17 hey guys, why might I be getting this error message when I try to run mit-scheme in emacs (carbon): call-interactively: Symbol's value as variable is void: cmd 01:24:21 I can't actually find a matching bug report in Gnome's bugzilla. 01:25:12 karljam: i don't know, but don't run mit-scheme unless you really have to 01:25:24 i really have to 01:25:32 for class 01:25:34 The OpenSSL debacle was also equally due to the OpenSSL developers being confusing. 01:25:36 chandler: Yes, I agree that they should be raising this kind of issue, but I also agree with what I understand to be the Debian policy of interfering as little as possible with upstream projects. (Disclaimer: I'm a mere user.) 01:25:48 karljam, how did you try to run it from Emacs? 01:26:07 (require 'scheme) in .emacs, then M-x run-scheme 01:26:20 chose mit-scheme when prompted 01:26:28 is that how your class told you to run mit-scheme? not with edwin? 01:26:54 Well, that's weird. You shouldn't need to use (require 'scheme) at all, by the way, unless you are using some unbelievably ancient version of Emacs from the eighties or something. 01:27:06 I can run edwin, I'd just rather do it with all my pretty settings in Emacs, if at all possible :) 01:27:10 'the Debian policy of interfering as little as possible with upstream projects.' <-- that;s not the policy I've observed. 01:27:10 Or did you mean (require 'xscheme)? 01:27:26 unless interfering means not pushing upstream) 01:27:37 ooups *pushing*) 01:27:41 'scheme unless you'd recommend 'xscheme 01:28:09 i wonder if i'll get errors if i restart without the require... 01:28:22 brb 01:28:29 -!- karljam [~user@dsl-149-113-157.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:33 karljam, type `M-x toggle-debug-on-error RET', and try `M-x run-scheme RET' again; then lisppaste the contents of the debugger buffer: . 01:30:42 franki^: I was mostly boggling at the entire situation. I suppose most people just switch the default to Iceweasel, so this sort of thing is likely to go unnoticed. 01:31:41 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31:47 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-14-90.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 01:33:09 karljam [~user@dsl-149-113-157.hive.is] has joined #scheme 01:34:11 different error altogether. with nothing in my .emacs I get this after M-x run-scheme: Loading cmuscheme...done 01:34:11 karljam, memo from neilv: http://www.neilvandyke.org/quack/ 01:34:11 apply: Searching for program: no such file or directory, scheme 01:34:19 aha 01:35:03 karljam, are you sure that a `scheme' or `mit-scheme' executable is in your exec-path in Emacs? 01:36:46 (Earlier I claimed that there appears to be no API to set the cipher list in OpenSSL, but I spoke too soon; there is an SSL_CTX_set_cipher_list.) 01:37:15 i'm not sure at all. 01:37:35 (Is there an API to set the cipher list to something sane that doesn't require changes as new ciphers are added or old ciphers are discovered to be insane?) 01:37:59 Type `C-h v exec-path' in Emacs, and `which scheme' in a shell, and see whether the directory the shell reports is in Emacs's exec-path. 01:38:27 Of course not, chandler. After all, OpenSSL is all about backwards compatibility, and what would we do if programs' behaviour changed when you upgraded OpenSSL? 01:39:48 ok, shell does not locate a binary at all. i'm on a mac btw. 01:40:09 Example: If you are using the `openssl smime' command to encrypt a message, DO NOT FORGET to specify the cipher. If you do forget, guess what OpenSSL will do! 01:40:11 i'm just realizing that i need to build one rather than hope there was already one floating around in my carbon emacs :S 01:40:45 does that sound right? 01:41:20 -!- adadglgmut [~steve@cpe-65-25-14-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:41:23 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 01:41:34 It sounds like this is causing you great distress. 01:41:45 karljam, yes, you'll need to download it from . You can get the Mac OS X application, and tell Emacs (setq scheme-program-name "/path/to/mit-scheme.app/Contents/Resources/mit-scheme"). 01:41:46 adadglgmut [~steve@cpe-65-25-14-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:41:54 Is it because you need to build one rather than hope there was already one floating around in your carbon emacs that you came to me? 01:42:14 Yes, doc. 01:42:39 (In answer to my request that you, the general audience, guess what OpenSSL will do when you fail to specify a cipher for `openssl smime': it will select 40-bit RC2 by default.) 01:42:43 thanks Riastradh, i didn't know i could just use edwin's binary :) 01:43:23 (I was going to guess "destroy the input and do nothing", but that's pretty bad too.) 01:45:03 the "openssl" command line tool has a wealth of stuff in it. with a bad interface to the wealth 01:46:00 You're not really supposed to use any of the `openssl cmd' tools; they're really just toys that demonstrate how to use the APIs. That, of course, is exactly why, for backwards compatibility, they won't change the default cipher in `openssl smime'. 01:46:15 karljam, let me know whether that works. 01:49:41 the openssl command line tools are the de facto standard ways to do a lot of certificate work 01:49:57 Riastradh: i still get apply: Searching for program: no such file or directory, mit-scheme 01:50:19 might be that i just required quack...? 01:50:31 should i restart again? 01:50:50 karljam: find which directory your mit scheme executable is in, and what it is named 01:51:03 "/Applications/Emacs/mit-scheme.app/Contents/Resources/mit-scheme") 01:51:15 is that directory in your "exec-path"? 01:51:39 nope... sounds like (setq scheme-program-name "/Applications/Emacs/mit-scheme.app/Contents/Resources/mit-scheme") ain't enough then? 01:52:12 i would think that would work 01:52:17 karljam, when you type `M-x run-scheme RET', does it immediately give you that error? 01:52:51 aha! 01:53:40 my mistake was that I chose to run "mit-scheme" rather than "/Applications/Emacs/mit-scheme.app/Contents/Resources/mit-scheme" 01:53:42 doh 01:53:46 works like a charm now 01:54:20 out of curiosity, what are you using mit-scheme for? sicp? 01:55:43 more or less - "concepts of programming languages" by Sebesta 01:56:16 not as cool 01:56:57 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:57:48 well thanks a ton guys - and thanks for quack, neil, it's a lifesaver :) 01:58:27 cool 01:59:06 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:59:25 -!- karljam [~user@dsl-149-113-157.hive.is] has left #scheme 02:03:56 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:03:56 luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has joined #scheme 02:07:13 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 02:07:53 ...What does Quack do differently about interacting with Scheme? I thought it just modified Scheme Mode and made a thin wrapper around cmuscheme for interaction. 02:09:25 Riastradh: IIRC, it doesn't change much about cmuscheme 02:11:26 most of quack was written in little bits and pieces on an underpowered laptop in uncomfortable lobby-like areas of the mit campus. i don't recall much other than that 02:11:36 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:12:25 oh yeah, and most of my time was wasted on portability to both gnu and xemacs, and old versions of same 02:14:31 next time, i will write it from scratch, and it will only work with gnu emacs 23 and later 02:15:11 22 isn't that old...I still use it... 02:16:14 it will be old by the time i get around to hacking emacs again :) 02:17:29 I see. 02:17:35 Speaking of hacking Emacs, perhaps I should release paredit 22 at some point. 02:17:39 The "only work with gnu emacs" bit is certainly sane. Porting working software from GNU emacs to xemacs appears to be a rabbit hole of nearly infinite depth from what I've observed. 02:18:27 I made a couple of concessions to XEmacs in paredit a couple of years ago. I don't know whether they still work. 02:19:29 Fortunately they're pretty minimal. 02:20:26 By the way, in case any of you Lisp-hacking Emacs users would like to make paredit 22 happen sooner, the patches at need feedback... 02:22:32 Gosh, I put those up over a year ago. 02:23:09 I believe I looked at some of them and provided feedback a long time ago. 02:23:50 That's true. I reflected your feedback in paredit-delimiter-space.el. 02:23:59 Now it is a list of predicates, rather than a single predicate. 02:24:09 I'd have to look at it fresh. I don't remember anything about these. 02:24:16 *chandler* makes a note to do that 02:24:43 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:24:49 I spend most of my time hacking C these days, so I'm probably not going to get to that soon. 02:24:56 You can use paredit with C... 02:26:13 I suppose I hadn't thought about that. 02:27:09 It needs a little work to do the right thing. For example, braces for blocks should be treated a little differently from Lisp lists. 02:27:23 Also, of course, cpp macros can screw it up. 02:29:10 around the time i recall you first writing paredit, some plt person made this: http://www.cs.brown.edu/research/plt/software/divascheme/ 02:30:03 I use a lot of those, but I'm conscientious about ensuring that they don't do non-obvious things and look like function calls (except for macros-as-constants). 02:33:15 neilv: The modal editing approach of divascheme doesn't appeal to me. If I had a round tuit, I'd write a paredit for DrScheme, but I'm all out of those. 02:36:26 -!- waltermai [~user@131.247.152.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:46 I wonder what the rationale is behind masking all floating-point exceptions in the default environment in IEEE 754. 02:52:48 timj_ [~timj@e176196004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:44 -!- timj [~timj@e176192032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:57:40 -!- neilv [~user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:08:42 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@70-36-245-104.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:27 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:17 Are there any Schemes that support multiple (fixed) precisions of floating-point numbers? 03:30:19 -!- luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 03:30:40 Every one that I am familiar with supports only IEEE 754 double-precision floating-point numbers (or, more generally, floating-point values). 03:34:04 -!- FurnaceBoy [~FurnaceBo@bas2-toronto10-2925235460.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzz] 03:41:16 I believe jcowan did a survey and didn't find any. 03:42:22 Oh, I think Chibi might have less-than-single-precision floats. 03:42:41 At least, I have a vague recollection of foof talking about that. 03:45:02 It's a compile time option, but currently applies to all floats - you can't have more than one precision at the same time. 03:45:22 I see. 03:46:23 I suppose I could allow both. 03:49:18 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:14:20 Checkie [28178@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 04:31:41 I wonder whether GMP operations are atomic with respect to every resource except for application-allocated memory, in the sense that they either complete successfully or have no observable effects other than allocating memory from the application-supplied allocator. 04:33:05 If that were the case, then it would be possible to back out of the GMP operation in the case of (temporary) memory exhaustion and restart it from the beginning, using setjmp and longjmp. 04:33:27 paperkettles [~chris@ip72-195-132-159.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #scheme 04:36:01 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:45 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:41:44 *Axioplase* looks for a divascheme videocast 04:42:15 Isn't there one smack at the top of the divascheme web page? 04:46:36 You know, I'm lazy. I google "youtube" to go to youtube, and then "divascheme" to find a video. 04:53:06 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-hyylysvojhbjhxpz] has joined #scheme 04:58:30 -!- paperkettles [~chris@ip72-195-132-159.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: paperkettles] 05:21:49 qu1j0t3 [~qu1j0t3@bas2-toronto10-2925235460.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 05:22:40 -!- qu1j0t3 [~qu1j0t3@bas2-toronto10-2925235460.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 05:32:17 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-164-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:32:23 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-164-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:32:41 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:37:14 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 05:56:46 Scala_ [~agscala@198.111.39.45] has joined #scheme 05:57:21 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-6-203.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 05:58:41 -!- kephas 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[~user@nat/nokia/x-hyylysvojhbjhxpz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:20 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:29:06 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:31:34 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:44:41 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-asjuffsdrlyefjan] has joined #scheme 09:44:52 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:51:33 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:57:17 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 10:07:29 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-16-100.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:10:02 -!- timj_ is now known as timj 10:18:50 -!- timj is now known as timj_ 10:19:14 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:20:25 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176203172.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:20:34 timj [~timj@e176203172.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 10:22:50 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:29:52 masm [~masm@bl15-234-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:29:58 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-16-100.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:34:38 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 10:44:22 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-234-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:49:50 -!- malorie [~bla@unaffiliated/malorie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:52:22 Blkt [~user@net-93-146-149-37.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 10:53:41 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 10:56:37 good day everyone! 10:56:57 malorie [~bla@chello084112014141.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 10:58:16 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 11:03:03 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:10:46 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-225.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:12:35 choas [~lars@p5792C20E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:14:41 homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has joined #scheme 11:19:59 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 11:32:19 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:33:06 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:34:41 luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has joined #scheme 11:42:13 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e055c8a.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 11:43:54 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 11:43:56 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-16-100.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 11:47:16 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 12:02:47 -!- atomx` [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:04:58 what's so good about it? 12:12:47 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:16:13 yeah. Who are you to tell me to have a good day?! 12:16:19 *offby1* slinks back into his cave 12:22:07 =] 12:23:47 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:59 -!- homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:29:01 homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has joined #scheme 12:29:28 -!- homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has quit [Client Quit] 12:30:19 homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has joined #scheme 12:57:57 -!- adadglgmut [~steve@cpe-65-25-14-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:59:23 adadglgmut [~steve@cpe-65-25-14-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:06:08 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-16-100.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:46 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 13:12:22 homie_ [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has joined #scheme 13:15:11 -!- homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:55 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 13:18:43 masm [~masm@93.102.192.142.rev.optimus.pt] has joined #scheme 13:19:43 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:21:45 -!- homie_ [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has quit [] 13:24:18 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 13:26:01 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:26:40 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 13:33:29 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:42:56 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:29 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:45:10 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 13:54:08 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 13:57:46 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:05:26 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:07:34 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:09:18 -!- edw````` [~user@71.23.221.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:17 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 14:17:43 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-253-100.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:17:48 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-253-100.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:18:32 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:19:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:04 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 14:28:53 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:43 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:46:27 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 14:50:13 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:50:32 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 14:51:14 xwl [~user@117.79.235.163] has joined #scheme 14:56:24 -!- xwl [~user@117.79.235.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:15 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:44 -!- masm [~masm@93.102.192.142.rev.optimus.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:18:39 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 15:25:06 jonrafkind [~jon4@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:35:53 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 15:41:08 kar8nga [~kar8nga@78.104.80.26] has joined #scheme 15:46:31 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:50:32 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Quit: the old ways are lost] 15:54:07 copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.164.93.197] has joined #scheme 15:56:47 -!- DaDa` [~user@125-248.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:57:43 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@78.104.80.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:53 masm [~masm@93.102.192.142.rev.optimus.pt] has joined #scheme 16:19:36 Humph, GMP doesn't support Euclidean integer division; it supports only floor, ceiling, and truncate. 16:19:41 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 16:19:43 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 16:19:43 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 16:21:55 FurnaceBoy [~FurnaceBo@bas2-toronto10-2925235460.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 16:35:11 lbc_ [~lbc@0909ds1-sdb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 16:35:17 -!- lbc_ [~lbc@0909ds1-sdb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:50 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:45:05 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 16:48:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-133.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 16:48:46 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:15 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 16:52:43 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Quit: reco] 16:53:45 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #scheme 17:07:08 david` [~user@125-248.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 17:10:32 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-225.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:10:52 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-225.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 17:12:23 mornfall_ [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 17:12:54 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:17:59 kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-214.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 17:23:31 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 17:41:22 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@g225209155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:41:31 pygospa [~pygospa@g225209155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 17:41:44 klutomet1s [klutometis@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 17:46:09 re: gmp -- are you trying to implement quotient/modulo ? It's not too bad, just check your signs, use mpz_mod, and division... 17:47:57 -!- incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:47:57 -!- klutometis [klutometis@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:48:17 incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 17:59:42 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:09:53 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13:26 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 18:15:07 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:55 jimrees_, I want Euclidean quotient and remainder, not one of the other various quotients and remainders. See . 18:24:38 Also, I'm not using mpz at all; it is basically unusable for anything but toy C programs. 18:31:31 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:35:28 -!- mornfall_ [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: the old ways are lost] 18:44:38 Also, this doesn't applyf to mpz_mod (= mpz_fdiv_r_ui), but the related routines mpz_*div_qr_ui are especially broken: given n and d, the q and r they return do not necessarily satisfy n = q d + r! 18:44:45 s/applyf/apply/1 18:46:35 The right way to deal with this would be to have mpz_eucdiv_qr (and, what I want, mpn_eucdiv_qr), which, given n and d, returns the unique q and r such that n = q d + r and 0 <= r < |d|. (Note that the last inequality is about r, not about |r|.) 18:47:02 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-214.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:04 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 18:59:41 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 18:59:43 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 18:59:43 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 19:01:40 ...er, of course mpn_eucdiv_qr wouldn't make sense; it would be the same as mpn_tdiv_qr. 19:02:45 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #scheme 19:03:18 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:08:35 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:47 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 19:20:54 kuribas [~user@d54C439D4.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 19:26:57 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:31:54 nvteighen [~nvteighen@83.44.90.143] has joined #scheme 19:31:55 -!- nvteighen [~nvteighen@83.44.90.143] has left #scheme 19:34:51 -!- david` [~user@125-248.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:35:43 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Quit: bbiab] 19:36:51 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 19:36:52 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 19:36:52 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 19:47:09 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:50:23 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:52:33 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 19:52:48 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 19:53:48 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:13 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-225.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:58:30 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-225.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:58:47 minion: memo for jcowan: Are there any uses for the round-ties-to-even integer division operator? 19:58:47 Remembered. I'll tell jcowan when he/she/it next speaks. 20:04:43 zilt [~zilt@67.23.13.119] has joined #scheme 20:21:24 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #scheme 20:26:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-133.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:58 Scala_ [~agscala@198.111.39.24] has joined #scheme 20:39:53 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:47 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:01 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:34 Frob! 21:03:43 Frob *what*? 21:04:21 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C439D4.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:05:17 -!- Scala_ [~agscala@198.111.39.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:38 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e055c8a.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 21:10:53 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 21:11:45 $_, of course. Isn't this #perl? Hmm, I must have taken a wrong turn... 21:15:36 Riastradh: blame your GPS 21:18:29 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:19:47 kar8nga [~kar8nga@k-213.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 21:20:13 http://billhails.net/Book/ 21:21:57 $S%I#C<>P would have been a better title imho 21:35:14 somnium: curious, thanks. 21:35:34 somnium: now the poor bugger will have to update for #perl6 21:36:35 heh 21:43:03 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:07 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:52:09 -!- jonrafkind [~jon4@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:56 robertosucks [~robertosu@bl17-0-239.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:11:04 i am a programming newbie 22:11:19 it will be helpul read htdp? 22:11:24 Definitely. 22:11:40 i know a bit of C 22:11:47 Better forget it. 22:12:02 why? 22:12:08 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:12:26 Because scheme and C are different languages, with different idioms and paradigms. 22:12:56 C is a little hard 22:13:29 choas_ [~lars@p5792C20E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:13:44 so it is not usefull to learn scheme? 22:13:58 Yes, it's the best thing you could ever do. 22:14:09 Read htdp, and then sicp. 22:16:02 C is not recommend to beginners? 22:16:13 I wouldn't start with C, no. 22:16:18 Better start with scheme. 22:16:42 Then, I would even advise to learn some assembler, before C, to better understand the point. 22:16:50 C is but a somewhat portable assembler. 22:17:17 in the future i will like to do some kernel development 22:17:23 in the Linux Kernel 22:17:29 There are modules to run scheme in the kernel. 22:17:53 but right now i just want to be a good programmer 22:17:57 http://abstractnonsense.com/schemix/ 22:18:06 Then learn hdtp and sicp. 22:18:47 hdtp is easy to follow? 22:18:59 Yes. 22:19:03 *somnium* disliked programming for a number of years, largely due to c++ 22:20:19 how can i see the exercices solutions? 22:20:42 -!- choas [~lars@p5792C20E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:20:43 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:43 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:46 By showing us your own solution. 22:21:09 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:21:09 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 22:23:57 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.164.93.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:23:57 is schemix up to date? Last I tried, it only worked with 2.4 22:24:09 The web site doesn't seem to say so. 22:24:21 then it doesn't :-/ 22:24:23 Happily, it's free software, you can put it up to date as you want. 22:25:02 so i will get started 22:27:18 copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.166.9.78] has joined #scheme 22:28:13 learn Haskell or Scheme to learn how to program well is different? 22:29:10 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-6-203.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:30:33 robertosucks: Ive never known anyone who learned haskell as their first language, but it would certainly give you a unique perspective on languages 22:32:30 so sticky with C or learn Scheme? please guys i need a honest answer 22:36:57 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:18 -!- masm [~masm@93.102.192.142.rev.optimus.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:39:05 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.166.9.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:40:01 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 22:40:07 foof: ping 22:40:07 jcowan, memo from Riastradh: Are there any uses for the round-ties-to-even integer division operator? 22:40:34 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@g225209155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:41:20 -!- shawnps [~shawn930@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:41:43 -!- robertosucks [~robertosu@bl17-0-239.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:42:03 pygospa [~pygospa@g227115163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 22:43:38 minion: memo to Riastradh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounding#Round_half_to_even says it is commonly used in bookkeeping, as well as being the ISO 754 default. 22:43:39 i don't agree - memo to riastradh httpen wikipedia orgwikiroundinground_half_to_even says it isn't commonly used in bookkeeping as well as being the iso 754 default 22:43:49 Arrgh. 22:44:50 memo to Riastradh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounding#Round_half_to_even says it is commonly used in bookkeeping, as well as being the ISO 754 default. 22:45:13 Ah well. 22:45:18 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:45:27 copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.167.64.155] has joined #scheme 22:45:53 shawnps [~shawn930@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:47:26 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:47:37 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-253-100.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:47:44 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:47:51 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-253-100.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:51:51 -!- choas_ [~lars@p5792C20E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:57:28 masm [~masm@93.102.195.199.rev.optimus.pt] has joined #scheme 22:59:46 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@k-213.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:15 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:03:15 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:03:50 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:03:50 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 23:08:17 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:16:07 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:22:37 -!- ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:59 ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has joined #scheme 23:24:46 -!- somnium [~user@adsl-65-185-34.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:24:47 neilv [~user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 23:35:00 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-14-90.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 23:44:25 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-37-120.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 23:54:40 -!- masm [~masm@93.102.195.199.rev.optimus.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]