00:03:13 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-11-130.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 00:23:05 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 00:46:16 -!- IJP [~Ian@host109-154-196-205.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:06:27 rotty, hmm, I think this is all too complicated. I might just rewrite it altogether to avoid the fluid binding business and to replace the *ADIC-TEST procedures by a lower-level parameter. 01:07:32 However, at the moment I have a bug in MIT Scheme and a bug either in Linux or in glibc to find and fix. 01:09:50 in linux or glibc? interesting :-) 01:12:29 Yep. A bug in handling hardware arithmetic traps. See . 01:14:25 -!- tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ad471cc.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 01:18:32 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:35:26 -!- bokr [~eduska@85.26.241.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:45:55 Well, I've found the bug in MIT Scheme. Shouldn't be too hard to fix; then I can try to find the one in Linux or glibc. 01:47:05 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:55:03 offby2 [~offby@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 01:57:39 -!- offby2 [~offby@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:58:06 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has left #scheme 02:07:56 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 02:17:00 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-202-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:00 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-202-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:32 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:20:00 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:23:59 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:27:55 xwl [~user@117.79.235.205] has joined #scheme 02:29:01 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:52:32 timj_ [~timj@e176199243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:34 -!- timj [~timj@e176192145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:10:28 -!- xwl [~user@117.79.235.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:01 is anyone in here in charge of http://scheme.dk/planet/? if so, would it perhaps be possible to add the ALL NEW Chicken Gazette (http://gazette.call-cc.org/) to it? that'd be very nice :-) 03:19:36 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:20 -!- wingo [~wingo@173.243.145.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:27:46 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:29 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 03:33:44 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:56:48 Rakko [~rakko@71-90-73-192.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:01:43 Riastradh: I'd like some more help with MIT Scheme, if you're available and willing. 04:01:43 Rakko, memo from eli: piping a module into racket this way is not doing what you think it should -- it basically just evaluates the module but doesn't invoke it. For command-line use, it's best to just pass the file as the single argument to avoid confusion. 04:02:19 whoa... I am 'rack'ing my brain trying to remember what that was about 04:02:39 oh, right! the #lang thing 04:02:47 thanks, minion 04:03:30 Rakko, yes? 04:03:43 I just downloaded the newest release of MIT Scheme for Mac 04:03:57 Rakko: that was re a problem you ran into with "racket < source-file". 04:03:58 but now I can't load a program as I did before (using mit-scheme --load name.scm) 04:04:34 What happens when you try? 04:04:45 eli: Oh. I don't think I was ever set on doing that; that was just one thing I tried to do. I *still* don't know why it trips over #lang on the command line. 04:04:59 ;Unable to find file "./paths.scm" because: File does not exist. 04:05:05 @Riastradh 04:05:12 But it does exist. 04:07:01 That's strange, Rakko. It works for me, although I'm not using Mac OS X. Can you use lisppaste to show the exact transcript of what you typed, starting from the shell prompt, running `cat' to show what's in the file, and then running Scheme? 04:07:17 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:11:21 playing around a little, I think maybe it will only run from within the dir where the exe is 04:11:27 let me play around for a bit 04:16:42 too many possibilities 04:18:51 It seems that it can find at least some .scm files specified if I give the whole pathname 04:21:42 Rakko: When you run "racket < foo.rkt" it's essentially the same as evaluating that code on the REPL, and the file has "#lang racket blah blah blah", then the expression that gets entered is a module. 04:21:42 The thing is that evaluating a module expression doesn't invoke it -- that's done with a `require', but you can't even write a require this way since it will be inside the module too. 04:21:42 OTOH, using just "racket foo.rkt" will require the module from the file, which would have produced the results you were probably expecting. 04:22:09 right, I get that 04:22:16 but that still doesn't work 04:23:38 Rakko: In that case, I don't know what is "that" that still doesn't work. A concrete example would help in this case too. 04:25:23 yeah... once I'm done distilling my MIT problem to show Riastradh, I will try working on Racket again. (I guess I shouldn't try to mess with so many implementations at once!) 04:26:12 Riastradh: I just uninstalled the old Scheme, in case that was interfering. 04:29:42 Rakko pasted "Part 1 of problems" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/114215 04:30:32 Riastradh: See that. In that capture, I am running a program which is supposed to save a world containing code to handle command line arguments. As you can see, there are two problems: 04:31:13 1) It doesn't find the Scheme file unless I give the full path name; 2) It seems to run successfully, but it doesn't actually create the world file. 04:31:25 That's...bizarre. 04:32:28 What do you get if you put `(pwd)' in pwd.scm, and run the following? mit-scheme --load "`pwd`/pwd.scm" 04:32:43 Sorry, `(write-line (pwd))'. 04:34:34 ;Loading "Scripts/pwd.scm"... #[pathname 11 "/Users/eric/"] 04:34:55 /Users/eric is where my world file is. Duh, didn't think to look there. 04:35:01 And what is your working directory when you run this? 04:35:12 /Users/eric/Scripts 04:35:15 Not /Users/eric, I presume? 04:35:23 Weird. 04:36:49 OK. The argument to --band also doesn't look in the current dir. 04:37:39 Strangely enough, when I typed 'mit-scheme --band command-line-parser.world --load $PWD/paths.scm', it didn't complain about the missing band, but it did suffer microcode errors. 04:38:21 So a file named command-line-parser.world exists somewhere else also, I think... 04:38:46 I see. There's a hack for the .app bundle that chdirs to your home directory. It shouldn't apply when not using the .app bundle, though. 04:38:53 (It applies only on Mac OS X.) 04:39:05 Ah hah... ain't OS X fun? 04:40:23 don't get Riastradh started. He'll tell you all the ways OS X still sucks compared to Sun workstations or Lisp Machines. and he'll be right about it, too :P 04:40:29 Hehe 04:40:55 If you're a Mac wizard, look in microcode/uxtop.c and microcode/macosx-starter.c to see whether you can fix macosx_in_app_p in uxtop.c. 04:40:59 The Sun my dad used at work ran at light speed. It had 64 MB of RAM! 04:41:33 I can try. 04:45:46 So those are in the "Portable C" source tarball, right? 04:46:53 They are in all of the distributions, actually, including the binary ones, but you should look at the Git repository at . 04:47:26 (I don't think those parts have changed since 9.0 was released, though, so if you don't have Git handy or don't want to deal with it (for which I don't blame you), you can use the distribution you have.) 04:48:17 C files in the binary distributions? I don't see them in mine. 04:48:58 Sorry, they're in the src directory. 04:49:06 mit-scheme-whatever/src/microcode/uxtop.c 04:49:51 OK. That's not in the OS X app. 04:49:58 DLing source. 04:50:00 Oh. 04:50:15 Right. I forgot about that distribution. 04:50:35 Anyway, you want the Git repository, or the source tarball. The `Portable C' distribution is actually a binary distribution, in a sense, with far more needless stuff in it than any of the other distributions. 04:50:43 Now, I still don't see why the --band argument was treated strangely 04:50:46 (needless for your purposes, that is) 04:50:55 (i.e. without a path, it threw errors; with a path, it worked fine) 04:51:23 ah, ok 04:51:27 Because Scheme chdirs before it reads the band. 04:52:20 Right -- but it isn't the same kind of errors as if it just can't find the band; I tried --band foobar (nonexistent file) and it gave an appropriate (can't find this) error 04:55:54 Scheme parses options, and checks whether the band file exists, before chdiring. If the first check fails, it reports a simple failure. But then if it fails to load the band after chdiring, it reports the error in a different way. Really, the chdiring doesn't make any sense except for the application bundle. 04:56:32 It reports the error in a different way just because it's a different part of the code that fails, and that error is supposed to be handled by the Scheme runtime system. 04:56:36 this C is written in a strangely Schemy style 04:56:55 ok, that makes sense :) 04:58:29 Adamant: OSX sucks in some absolute ways too. 04:58:43 eli: what do you hate about it? 04:58:55 (I may or may not agree) 05:00:10 There's a whole bunch of un-fun stuff, but mostly it's apple doing their best to show the world just how great it is that they didn't become the big bad brother -- because they would have been *really* bad. 05:00:33 eh, I pretty much agree with you 05:00:50 IME, it's nearly impossible to do anything on these things without running into their "we know best what's good for you" attitude. 05:01:05 (And getting an OS to have such an attitude is not an easy thing.) 05:01:25 the problem is that they haven't figured out that just because you get Hugo Boss to design your suits doesn't mean you aren't still stormtroopers. 05:01:39 :) 05:02:42 Riastradh: I wonder... the executable I'm running *is* within the app bundle's directory. I haven't invoked it through the OS X infrastructure, but maybe that doesn't matter. 05:03:02 Oh. 05:03:05 Well, that would explain it, then. 05:03:31 I always thought that if I didn't launch it through the Finder or Dock, it didn't count 05:04:21 I don't think Scheme distinguishes between the two. You could add another option, say `--macosx-application', which triggers the chdir, and which macosx-starter.c passes. 05:05:17 I won't add it myself because I can't test it, but I'll take a look at a patch, or send it to someone who does use OS X for review. 05:08:17 I think there must be some way to determine if it was started from the command line or not 05:08:40 it looks like it comes down to the results of CFBundleGetMainBundle() and CFBundleCopyResourceURL(...) 05:08:55 I doubt it, unless macosx-starter.c passed an extra option. 05:09:08 I haven't looked into that file yet, but I will now 05:10:20 OK... that is a starter stub file that loads the actual executable (which is the one I've been running from terminal) 05:13:02 And the starter passes --edit 05:13:20 edw` [~user@71.23.221.213] has joined #scheme 05:16:28 Any idea offhand where the option handling is handled? 05:16:54 -!- edw [~user@71.23.221.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:17:34 option.c 05:17:53 Duh. Just hit upon that myself :) 05:19:26 I gotta say this source is (from the very tiny bit I've looked at) easy to look at 05:22:01 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:23:38 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 05:25:37 What is bchscheme? 05:27:36 A relic of the past. It was a Cheney-style stop & copy garbage collector that used the disk as the newspace, and then read the newspace back into memory over the oldspace, for machines with no virtual memory and scant physical memory. 05:36:14 Ah, I recall reading something about that somewhere... and going "huh?" 05:40:54 I'm off to bed now. I'll be back some time tomorrow, though. 05:42:47 Night. Thanks! 05:44:11 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 05:44:39 hi 05:51:34 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57:13 wingo [~wingo@cpe-76-166-198-241.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:58:32 I really like playing with multiple languages at once 05:59:11 I just wrote my first AppleScript and awk scripts :) 06:01:11 hi wingo 06:05:11 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:18:39 hello 06:31:35 what's up? 06:33:02 sleep :) 06:37:03 fun 06:43:59 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:53:34 night 06:53:55 -!- Rakko [~rakko@71-90-73-192.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Rakko] 07:08:34 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-95-41.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 07:13:14 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 07:20:21 freddie111 [~user@ppp-94-64-160-175.home.otenet.gr] has joined #scheme 07:25:54 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:38:41 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 07:42:08 kar8nga [~kar8nga@m-227.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 07:53:57 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:54:10 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:54:13 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-11-130.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:34 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 08:12:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 08:14:15 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@54-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 08:17:53 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@54-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 08:20:19 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 08:22:37 -!- freddie111 [~user@ppp-94-64-160-175.home.otenet.gr] has left #scheme 08:41:55 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 08:43:50 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 08:46:39 weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme 08:50:54 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@m-227.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:38 DaDa` [~user@196-120.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 09:13:35 Nils^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has joined #scheme 09:14:17 IJP [~Ian@host109-154-196-205.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 09:31:40 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 09:48:13 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:03:22 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: zZzZzZz] 10:03:26 vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has joined #scheme 10:11:52 kar8nga [~kar8nga@78.104.80.34] has joined #scheme 10:11:54 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@78.104.80.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:18 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-69-217.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:27:50 -!- vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:28:05 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-36-247.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 10:34:35 dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-229-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 10:36:55 schmir [~schmir@p54A91246.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:48:43 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91246.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:53:10 hm, so many lines of scheme written and I still did not find out how to directly recursivly redefine parameters in a function. 10:53:41 Nils^: redefine parameters? 10:53:57 (define (proc param1) (define param1 (+ param1 3)) param1) 10:54:34 are you looking for set! ? 10:54:35 of course I could just return directly the calculated value, but in procs with some complexity this leads to endless lines 10:54:47 Is set! not for global vars? 10:54:48 or let? 10:55:13 (define (f x) (let (x* (+ x 42)) x*)) 10:56:08 AFAIK function parameters are always fresh locations, you can set! them 10:56:37 although I can't think of why that would be preferable to let 10:57:14 oh, of course it should be (let ((x* (+ x 42))) ...) 10:57:21 You don't even need the star 10:57:53 let establishes a new lexical scope, but the variables it sees in the value expressions are from the surrounding scope 10:58:19 lets try... 11:00:04 this example returns 1 for (f 1) 11:00:13 if the body is just x to return 11:00:20 What example? 11:00:41 how do you use the bots to eval here? 11:00:42 ah, I really need the star 11:00:47 okok 11:00:49 Nils^: No you don't 11:01:09 sjamaan: if I use the star in let to define I need the star to return, too 11:01:22 yeah, obviously :)) 11:01:27 either both or none :) 11:01:28 You don't need the star at all 11:01:31 right 11:08:25 I tell you, write a program which has a base7 number as basic data type is not comfortable. 11:08:38 every simple function has to be re implemented 11:09:17 and always this damn conversion (string->number base7 7) (+ x y) (number->string base10 7) 11:09:58 Nils^: macros! 11:10:55 well of course I do this not every time. I have writte my own (b7+ x y) and (b7- x y) procs 11:12:00 Why do you keep the numbers in base 7 representation? You'd only need to convert upon reading and writing, I'd think 11:12:18 Converting is a waste of CPU time :) 11:16:08 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-95-41.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:24:57 sjamaan: because each function needs to have a clean base 7 interface. Besides the very simple ones each function can be accessed by the user directly who thinks in base7 here 11:25:32 musical notation is a base 7 system 11:27:29 so the user should not be aware whats happening underneath. He inputs a value and gets out a value of the same type. 11:28:16 sjamaan: in case you meant inside functions the of course I don't convert each time. Once its going in and once its going out 11:28:31 Yes, and people typically write stuff down in a base 10 system, while computers work in base 2. That never stopped anyone from using + and - directly 11:28:58 You could make a reader extension to make it easier to enter notes directly in base 7 form 11:33:38 -!- DaDa` [~user@196-120.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:35:25 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:35:52 An octave is twelve half-tone, not seven. 11:37:15 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-55.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:39:17 pjb: he's doing debussy, obviously; where whole-tone scales are the order du jour. 11:39:38 incubot: once you mentioned something about the answer to life, the universe and everything 11:39:42 of universe. 11:41:09 Nils^: wouldn't it be base 8 in germany, by the way? they have H there, which is really B-natural (though notationally speaking, i suppose, it's still a hebdomen). 11:41:48 hebdomen, right next to the abdomen and hetman 11:41:59 minion: am I right? 11:41:59 what would it mean if you were right 11:42:06 hell if I know 11:43:42 Adamant: that's right; it's for those mutants who have seven-packs instead of six. 11:44:05 what about those of us with one-packs. :( 11:44:18 shrink, damn you, shrink! 11:44:59 so one-pack in terms of music 11:45:06 klutometis: no, a normal scale is 7 tones, it has nothing to do with the naming. c d e f g a h/b 11:45:06 would be like PCM, I think 11:47:09 and pjb. the system is indeed: 7 tones extended to 12. 11:47:18 not the other way around. 11:48:43 Nils^: right; but in some sense there's an octagonal mapping from note to number (with the redundant H). the diatonic scale and church modes (dorian, lydian, etc.) are still 7, of course. 11:49:14 i was merely talking alphabetic notation. 11:49:20 s/number/letter/ 11:49:53 let's not get started with microtonality, however; where all 7- and 12-based bets are off. 11:51:15 klutometis: this channel is about scheme and not music theory, but be assured that my system covers micros, too :) 11:52:10 Nils^: #scheme is about a lot of things as long as it's tangentially related to Scheme and not nasty. (but mostly about Scheme.) 11:52:36 musical theory -> notation -> math -> Scheme 11:52:55 Nils^: what system, by the way? i'm interested because i had cause recently to develop a musical "DSL" in scheme. 11:52:58 Adamant: I just need an excuse to continue programming and stop talking about music theory. My knowledge about the latter is so much bigger than about scheme that its easy to get distracted here 11:53:11 Nils^: ah, understood. 11:53:31 Nils^: really? a musician by trade? 11:54:15 klutometis: its a lib for http://www.denemo.org . It makes it much easier to manipulate notes, generate random notes etc. random generation is what I'm doing right now 11:54:16 Nils^: ah, denemo; nice. 11:54:30 you beat me to it; looks great. 11:54:34 klutometis: and yes, I'm musician first, programming is just a hobby 11:55:03 a friend and i were transcribing the whole WTC in lilypond, and could have used your program; transcription was pretty slow and painful. 11:55:25 somehow we got through WTC, the violin and gamba sonatas, as well as the inventions, though. 11:55:36 stopped short of the chorales. 11:56:01 thats quite a task 11:56:19 Blkt [~user@net-93-146-154-84.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 11:56:37 yeah, hell of a lot of fun, though; i'd say they output vied with the neue bach ausgabe in terms of quality. 11:56:39 WTC in this context? 11:56:46 well-tempered clavier 11:56:47 good day everyone 11:56:47 Wohltemperiertes Klavier 11:56:49 ah 11:58:06 Nils^: anyway, happy hacking; good to meet another musician hereabout. 12:13:57 DaDa` [~user@196-120.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 12:31:51 amoe [~amoe@cpc1-brig13-0-0-cust658.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 12:31:56 hey 12:32:55 in SRFI-64, is there any way to write a test that you expect _not_ to produce an error? 12:33:24 like the inverse of 'test-error' 12:36:40 -!- DaDa` [~user@196-120.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:52:43 amoe: Don't the tests fail anyway if there is an error? 12:52:47 got one: (test-assert (begin (something) #t)) 12:54:16 IJP, I want to allow (something) to evaluate to false 12:55:28 ah, just make sure to wrap that in a macro then 12:58:47 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:04:21 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 13:04:48 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-146-154-84.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:49 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 13:21:30 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:25:46 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-95-41.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 13:31:00 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:31:23 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35:06 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:35:11 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:38:08 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:38:17 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:39:38 -!- Checkie [15279@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:47:32 kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-123.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 13:53:23 -!- amoe [~amoe@cpc1-brig13-0-0-cust658.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #scheme 13:56:38 Blkt [~user@net-93-146-154-84.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 14:02:13 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 14:10:57 -!- ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:17 ray [ray@xkcd-sucks.org] has joined #scheme 14:23:42 -!- markatto [~markatto@kappa.citi.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:27:31 luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has joined #scheme 14:38:27 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:38:52 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:40:17 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:41:11 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-142-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:51:25 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 14:55:18 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has left #scheme 14:55:19 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 14:59:03 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #scheme 14:59:16 hi 15:00:13 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-95-41.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02:43 how do you in scheme shadow a global procedure temporary with a local "variant" of the same procedure, say something which depends on local scope. I don't get my head around why it doesn't work as expected in my program code. 15:04:32 fantazo: (begin (define *global* 42) (let ((*global* "the-answer")) (display *global*))) 15:06:17 fantazo: I may have misread, perhaps you want fluid-let? 15:06:36 ok, I think I should paste the whole thing somewhere. 15:06:56 somnium, well fluid-let is what I use at the moment 15:16:59 fantazo pasted "structured text "library"" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/114226 15:17:56 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:18:03 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:19:14 Hi, anybody know how to report a bugg of the match.scm written by Alex Shinn? 15:19:56 well, for any input how to get that code working, or how that should be better done I'm open for ideas. I'm only pissed that it doesn't work, really makes me insane. 15:23:17 last changes was 2009/11/25 in my version! 15:23:33 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:26:33 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:27:51 do you use for that kind of code continuations? 15:28:06 stis: Tell foof 15:28:49 ok, thanks! is it possible to send a message via a bot to foof? 15:29:21 I think minion can do that 15:29:36 do you know how? 15:29:37 minion: Later tell foof someone found a bug in match.scm 15:29:37 can you be more specific? 15:29:45 hm, I guess that doesn't work 15:29:50 rudybot: Later tell foof someone found a bug in match.scm 15:29:51 minion: memo for foof: sjamaan told me to tell you: someone found a bug in match.scm 15:29:51 Remembered. I'll tell foof when he/she/it next speaks. 15:29:56 heh! 15:30:05 Delegation FTW 15:30:13 lol 15:33:40 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.47] has joined #scheme 15:35:26 vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has joined #scheme 15:37:45 fantazo: I ran your code and I guess the problem is that you should let get-indentation return the new value. set! returns an undefined value 15:38:35 minion: memo for foof: for possable bug see http://pastebin.com/rUsNb9R7, latest change was 2009/11/25 in the match.scm file which is used in guile! 15:38:35 Remembered. I'll tell foof when he/she/it next speaks. 15:38:59 stis: Note that it is quite possible Guile is using a modified version 15:40:29 sjamaan: I and civodul!! tried to keep the original file and just replaced a few functions ... 15:40:50 ... but I could have done a stupid misstake of case ;-) 15:41:14 ... but it's better to ask then to look the other way :-) 15:42:15 minon: memo for foof: please look at the comment inside the pasted define-syntax form 15:43:44 You made a typo in the bot's name 15:43:56 thanks! 15:44:09 minion: memo for foof: please look at the comment inside the pasted define-syntax form 15:44:10 Remembered. I'll tell foof when he/she/it next speaks. 15:45:50 fantazo: you should probably switch the 'if' and the 'set!' around, and make the test (= lines 1) 15:45:59 fantazo: or use 'begin0' 15:49:02 anyone has experience with random number generation? what deviation can I expect from a random function with 50.000 iterations and 7 possible numbers? 15:49:09 I get these count statistics: 6172 6303 6087 6211 6422 6117 6284 6405 15:49:53 each number means the frequency of occurrence for one possible value. 15:50:15 I have a feeling they should be closer at 50.000 calls 15:52:07 with 500.000 its: 63396 62459 62651 62267 62548 61997 62224 62459 15:52:37 ok 15:52:46 what RNG are you using? 15:53:35 without doing an estimate, you probably want either a variant on Mersenne Twister, or a crypto-grade one 15:53:59 (technically they are all Pseudo-Random Number Generators created from a random seed.) 15:54:28 if you want determinstic output, save the seed) 15:54:44 I use guile (random) with an initial seed from gettimeofday 15:54:46 IIRC, I'm tired so the last bit may be wrong 15:55:07 language-based PRNGs usually aren't great 15:55:40 no it should be random, not deterministic. I just don't know if those numbers are close enough too each other or if the seed is bad. And its only an initial seed, I read that (random) takes it next seed from the last generation 15:55:57 I think a real, more random, seed would be better. 15:56:04 timeofday is highly nonrandom 15:56:05 yes 15:56:14 it's good for getting a unique seed 15:56:27 Adamant: timeofday is just the initial one, I don't know what random or guile do afterwards 15:56:36 what's called in crypto a 'nonce', number used only one 15:56:58 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-123.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:02 gettimeofday + crap algorithm = highly nonrandom output if you need a lot of output 15:57:04 Nils: 95% of the outcomes of one number is within about 2*sqrt(n*1/8*7/8) if the random generation is perfect 15:57:34 araound the expected value that is. 15:57:50 stis: ok, I have to calculate this :) 15:58:05 n is the number of possible outcomes? 15:58:14 Adamant: crap algo? 15:58:32 n is 500.000 15:59:04 Nils^: a lot of language-implementation algorithms for pseudo-random number generation are not so great, because they don't have to be 15:59:42 its not for something important like security. I'm generating music notes. But if I just use one out of seven and get 5 in a row it feels wrong 15:59:46 compared to stuff for simulations or cryptography, which tend to use Mersenne Twister (for simulations) or more complex stuff. 15:59:56 if = it 16:00:05 no! if = if :) 16:00:09 yeah, there should be a off-the-shelf Mersenne Twister you can plug in 16:00:17 in theory 16:01:01 not sure for Guile, it's had less support for third-party stuff in the past; just the base of developers for it. 16:01:31 Racket/PLT Scheme, Chicken, etc., I'm sure have that 16:01:55 I don't remember Mersenne being horrible to implement; I think that's part of the appeal 16:02:13 I can ask in #guile if I do not find anything in the guile docs. 16:02:21 along with speed and quality for non-crypto purposes 16:02:28 yeah, and their algo may not be crap 16:02:40 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 16:02:41 I just tend to assume it is by default unless I know otherwise 16:09:07 apparently guile uses a "Multiply with Carry generator" which I read in a third party documentation here: http://cer.freeshell.org/renma/LibraryRandomNumber/#LibraryRandomNumber_sec_scheme 16:09:08 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/333rrsr 16:09:33 -!- wingo [~wingo@cpe-76-166-198-241.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:09:40 but the calculations there do not transform in information for me :) 16:10:02 karme [~user@stgt-5f73a035.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 16:13:07 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:16:39 thanks IJ 16:16:53 and 16:16:59 works now :-) 16:25:27 bohanlon [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:42 markatto [~markatto@kappa.citi.umich.edu] has joined #scheme 16:38:21 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:38:26 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:47:39 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:49:26 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:49:57 td123 [~td123@76.191.31.83] has joined #scheme 16:50:10 what is the standard implementation of scheme? 16:50:18 -!- karme [~user@stgt-5f73a035.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:27 wingo [~wingo@adsl-75-16-63-82.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:51:49 td123: So far as I know, there isn't one. There is just a standard. 16:52:17 hmm, so there isn't one implementation a majority uses? 16:52:52 DrDuck2 [~duck@146.229.118.47] has joined #scheme 16:53:04 (I know that the two aren't necessarily linked) :) 16:53:10 td123: Well, there are a few popular implementations. 16:53:17 MzScheme is popular. 16:53:40 That would be a different question, but I doubt any one Scheme implementation has over 50% of the "market share", so to speak. I have absolutely no statistics to back that up though. 16:54:16 Also MIT Scheme, and Chicken... and I'm sure there are others. 16:54:26 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.47] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:34 Guile 16:54:38 franki^: understandable 16:54:41 -!- DrDuck2 [~duck@146.229.118.47] has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:14 ok, well thanks :) 16:56:15 No problem, feel free to hang around and ask more questions. (Although, I'm relatively new myself, so don't ask anything too difficult!) 16:57:11 franki^: I'm actually a packager rather then a user :) so you probably no more then me right now 16:57:26 lol, s/no/know/ 16:57:59 stupid context insensitive spellchecker 16:59:47 I like to think that I know more about Scheme than someone who walks in off the street, but the problem with people that walk in off the street is that you can never be sure. :) 17:02:26 Does anyone know of a good document that summarizes the differences between R5RS and R6RS? 17:04:32 cpressey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_%28programming_language%29#R6RS 17:05:14 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 17:05:25 there's a citation in that section which links to a nice "changes in r6rs" 17:05:53 td123: Indeed - thanks! 17:07:03 The R6RS in a nutshell "It's bigger" :) 17:18:35 Nils^: regarding guile's rng, it's terrible, and needs a replacement. 17:20:14 Nils^: patches accepted :) see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.guile.devel/10738 17:20:57 Nils^: even with real randomness, 5 of the same note in a row is bound to come up every few thousand notes 17:21:38 if you want perfect uniformity over short spans you can use something like tetris' bag generator ( http://tetris.wikia.com/wiki/Random_Generator ) 17:23:07 Nils^: be sure you're seeding the rng of course; guile doesn't do it for you. 17:24:19 sloyd: 5 in a row was with maybe 20 inserts :) 17:24:38 wingo: thanks, I'll have a look 17:26:34 I notice a great thing: The more I write the more all gets sharp and I begin to reimplement my old functions in a much cleaner and shorter way. 17:26:38 :) 17:27:14 mostly as a sideeffect of "hey.. I wrote that once, but as part of another function. Why is this not a seperate function?" 17:29:29 wingo: hope I wasn't winging on it too hard. can it be done in Scheme or is it a C primitive in guile? 17:31:16 kar8nga [~kar8nga@k-43.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 17:32:51 Adamant: the stock srfi 27 (?) rng will work; but guile's built-in rng is implemented in c. 17:33:05 Nils^: :) 17:33:25 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:33:43 wingo: I am behind on work and sleep depped and I need to get stuff done for other stuff 17:34:02 but remind me about this if I don't talk to you again; sounds like a fun project 17:34:16 cool, no stress :) 17:35:33 well, sure; it's more I don't want to stress you if you start relying on me when I need to get work to all the other "users" in my life :P 17:35:44 *work for 17:38:19 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-58.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 17:41:16 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-55.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:45:53 choas [~lars@p578F6EE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:50:48 -!- saccade [~saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:52:08 saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:57:32 -!- td123 [~td123@76.191.31.83] has left #scheme 18:00:10 saccade_ [~saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:24:17 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:14 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:29:05 -!- wingo [~wingo@adsl-75-16-63-82.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:07 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 18:32:18 karme [~user@stgt-5f73a035.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 18:33:59 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 18:42:14 -!- jay-mccarthy [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:27 jay-mccarthy [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:50:24 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:52:38 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:54:47 -!- karme [~user@stgt-5f73a035.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:19 -!- jensn [~ceres@c-83-233-158-96.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:02 jensn [~ceres@c-83-233-158-96.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #scheme 18:58:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:03:03 Foo! 19:03:21 Rakko [~rakko@71-90-73-192.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:05:31 Bar! 19:05:45 Hi 19:06:36 Hi. 19:07:38 Hey Riastradh. I got my changes to compile, but it didn't pick up X11 libraries for Edwin. 19:08:13 Where are your X11 header files and libraries? 19:08:33 So when I run the macosx-starter, it launches Edwin in the terminal... but it forks it into the background, so I get thrown back into a shell, and Scheme periodically spits out errors about some IO port 19:08:54 You're not supposed to run macosx-starter except through the .app bundle, I think. 19:09:17 ...but, I see, if Edwin can't find X11 stuff, then it will probably barf. 19:09:17 Right, but launching the .app doesn't work, because there's no X. 19:09:22 yup 19:09:36 My X headers are in /usr/X11/include/X11 19:10:00 and libraries in /usr/X11/lib 19:10:10 Can you lisppaste your config.log? 19:10:24 yep 19:11:34 Rakko pasted "config.log" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/114236 19:12:40 Oh, sorry, can you paste microcode/config.log? 19:12:50 I forget that there are other config.logs. 19:13:07 Oh yeah 19:13:39 Oh, one other thing: I used 7.7.90+ to compile 9.0.1. Should I have used another 9.0.1 to compile it instead? 19:15:32 I think most problems that might cause will be detected and cause the build to fail. 19:17:16 hmm, paste too large 19:17:41 Can you put it somewhere on the web where I can fetch it? 19:17:59 http://rakko.homeunix.com:8089/~eric/microcode-config.log 19:19:06 Try adding `--x-libraries=/usr/X11/lib --x-includes=/usr/X11/include' to the configure arguments. 19:19:16 ld: library not found for -lX11 19:19:21 ok 19:19:48 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:58 I see that the macosx-starter forks. That must be why Edwin seems to be running in the background, I guess. I don't understand why it does that, though. 19:21:30 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-146-154-84.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:22:21 Also I get etc/functions.sh: line 30: mit-scheme-i386: command not found 19:22:35 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:22:42 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:22:44 I "fixed" that last time by passing --enable-host-scheme-test to configure. Is that appropriate? 19:23:07 Try `env MIT_SCHEME_EXE=/usr/local/wherever/7.7.90/is/bin/mit-scheme ./configure'. The alias mit-scheme-i386 wasn't added until last November or so. 19:24:38 ahh 19:25:30 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@54-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 19:26:29 -!- vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:27:41 ha ha! this works 19:27:54 it didn't have to recompile a bunch of stuff either 19:28:19 remind me how you evaluate a buffer in Edwin 19:29:04 nm. found C-xC-e 19:32:11 Blkt [~user@net-93-146-154-84.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 19:32:12 odd, this maps meta to command... I think most x apps use option for meta 19:32:38 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.52.228] has joined #scheme 19:33:51 In the default Apple X11.app configuration, Command is Meta. 19:35:07 Weird! So it's not just Edwin. 19:36:07 The next good thing to do would be to enable Edwin to launch either in X or in the current terminal. 19:36:19 The location where Command sits is the canonical location for Meta. 19:36:58 DrDuck2 [~duck@146.229.118.47] has joined #scheme 19:37:11 -!- DrDuck2 is now known as DrDuck 19:37:34 Riastradh: Hah, I know. I've had that argument before with Mac people... but I eventually gave up. 19:37:56 It's too useful a shortcut key for app-level stuff (where "app" = X11, not the X11 client) 19:39:06 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:50 So now when I run Windows in VMware I use option for alt (the default), because it's useful to be able to use command to trigger vmware-specific functionality 19:40:23 vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has joined #scheme 19:47:31 Riastradh: Is Edwin a fork of Emacs, or its own entity? 19:48:54 Riastradh: you may know it. 19:49:29 Edwin is a clone of GNU Emacs, not a fork. Some parts of it were translated from elisp in GNU Emacs. 19:49:29 Riastradh: are there any compilers that unbox real numbers 19:49:29 and arrays to give performance comparable to Fortran? 19:50:44 ASau, MIT Scheme unboxes flonums within arithmetic expressions, and supports flonum arrays. Consequently, for example, the following code does not box any flonums: (define (dot-product! r ri u v) (do ((i 0 (+ i 1))) ((= i (flo:vector-length u))) (flo:vector-set! r ri (flo:+ (flo:vector-ref r ri) (flo:* (flo:vector-ref u i) (flo:vector-ref v i] 19:51:22 Riastradh: what about passing between subroutines? 19:51:23 This stores the dot product of u and v in the flonum vector r at the index ri. 19:51:37 Riastradh: same shit? 19:51:42 Whenever flonums are passed as arguments to procedures that are not open-coded flonum arithmetic primitives, they are boxed. 19:52:04 There are some exceptions to this rule. 19:52:40 In particular, the in the following fragment, there is no boxing: (let () (define-integrable (id x) x) (flo:vector-set! v i (id (flo:vector-ref v i] 19:54:12 Similarly, in, say, (let ((x (flo:log (flo:vector-ref v i))) (declare (integrate x)) (flo:vector-set! u j (flo:+ x (flo:sqrt x], there is no boxing. This duplicates the expression for x, but the compiler's common subexpression elimination will clean that up later. 19:57:58 However, any values that are stored as arguments to procedures, or on the stack in local variables (same thing, really), are forced into the uniform object representation in which flonums are boxed. 19:59:37 -!- vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:00:34 The compiler's variable modelling is pretty dumb; for some local variables, it really shouldn't allocate stack slots, but it's not smart enough to figure out which ones those are. 20:02:47 It should also be able to store objects in non-uniform representations on the stack, but, again, it's not smart enough to figure out when it can do that. 20:07:22 Fortunately, boxing flonums only increases pressure on the garbage collector; otherwise, it is hardly different from storing them, say, on the stack -- it will differ by no more than an instruction or two, because in both cases, it is just a matter of bumping an allocation pointer. 20:11:26 pavelludiq [~user@91.139.197.17] has joined #scheme 20:14:03 -!- pavelludiq [~user@91.139.197.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:56 karme [~user@stgt-5f73a035.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 20:20:27 toast` [~toast`@m4c0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:21:53 -!- Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:51 -!- toast` [~toast`@m4c0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:08 -!- saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:28:44 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:28:47 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:28:54 toast` [~toast`@m0c0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:32:51 vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has joined #scheme 20:36:10 Riastradh: you want that patch? 20:37:22 saccade [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-82-90.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:37:48 -!- toast` [~toast`@m0c0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:56 I just made one against Git. I haven't tried compiling from Git, but it compiles and seems to work ok on 9.0.1. 20:40:32 toast` [~toast`@m4c0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #scheme 20:40:48 vpalle_ [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has joined #scheme 20:40:52 Rakko, if you lisppaste it or put it on the web somewhere, I'll take a look. 20:42:20 http://rakko.homeunix.com:8089/~eric/mit-scheme-macosx-application.diff 20:42:25 Thanks so much for your help. 20:42:58 -!- vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:50 -!- karme [~user@stgt-5f73a035.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:39 bbl 20:51:15 -!- Rakko [~rakko@71-90-73-192.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Rakko] 20:54:22 Leonidas_ [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 20:54:33 -!- Leonidas_ is now known as Leonidas 20:56:19 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 20:58:34 -!- choas [~lars@p578F6EE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:19:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:26:27 x-x [~fhc@bl15-119-38.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 21:26:34 -!- x-x [~fhc@bl15-119-38.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:26:44 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:29:53 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:49 how is this operation called? having an input list with this values: '( (4 4 5) (5 4 4) (4 5 8)) => (5 5 8) so collecting all the highest values together which are the heighest on the specific places. 21:35:26 maybe there is a "mathematical" name for that, but I don't know that one. would be cool if someone could enlighten me. 21:44:41 fantazo: map does that in scheme, try (map max '(4 4 5) '(5 4 4) '(4 5 8)) 21:49:06 nice, but when its a list of lists? 21:53:14 fantazo: (map (lambda (list) (apply max list)) '((4 4 5) (5 4 4) (4 5 8))) 21:54:18 incidentally, that example would also give (5 5 8) 21:56:41 thanks, some code to meditate above 22:00:48 is there a built-in command to delete a member from the list? 22:00:57 I use a random integer (max is length) to list-ref and want to delete the member of the list afterwards. 22:01:38 well, the complete basic explanation is that I have a list and want to randomly give out members but each one only once until every member was called. 22:05:17 How about shuffling the list and then taking elements off the beginning? That way, your algorithm can run in logarithmic time (O(n log n) to shuffle, n * O(1) to dispense n elements), rather than quadratic time (n * O(n) time to dispense n elements). 22:05:17 s/logarithmic/linearithmic/1 22:06:42 Riastradh: that would be a good thing, yes of course! 22:06:53 Riastradh: shuffling list is next task then :) 22:07:54 i like how performance optimization is typically about finding a cheaper to do thing that is semantically identical 22:08:17 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:08:57 22:11:07 so its time to use modules 1 and 8 22:11:09 thanks Riastradh 22:15:17 Hmm. The bifurcation shuffler could be made slightly more robust, I think, against a biased coin, which currently sends it spinning into an infinite loop. 22:15:59 the file loads correctly, but I don't know flip-coin 22:16:15 Define it in terms of whatever random number generator you have. 22:16:25 E.g., if you have SRFI 27 handy, (define (flip-coin) (zero? (random-integer 2))). 22:17:16 The recursive call in BINARY-SHUFFLE-LIST, (bifurcate list '() '()), should be replaced by: (receive (left right) (if (flip-coin) (values (car list) (cdr list)) (values (cdr list) (car list))) (bifurcate (cddr list) left right)) 22:17:44 That way, it will always make progress, but I don't think it will change the distribution of results. 22:18:29 Riastradh: can you recommend one of the methods? I just need one, size of lists is from 2 to maybe a few hundred, but most of the time it will be under 100 22:20:32 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 22:20:35 Use the merge shuffler; that runs in O(n log n) time and needs only a random source of O(n log n) bits. 22:21:49 What is called the merge shuffle there is essentially a bridge/riffle shuffle of a deck of cards. 22:22:17 Hmm... 22:22:47 No, that's not quite right. 22:23:28 It's like what happens when a riffle shuffle and a merge sort meet in a dark room with an aphrodesiac and exit the next morning both very confused. 22:24:20 *g* 22:24:42 (If it were like a riffle shuffle then it wouldn't actually work very well.) 22:24:59 (To be precise, you'd need to run it several times before it got very good.) 22:25:01 Riastradh: flip-coin is #t and #f ? 22:25:07 Yes. 22:25:10 ok 22:27:06 and so it began to work 22:27:57 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Farewell!] 22:28:04 Riastradh: I assume each ;;;; XY shuffle is a different method, independent of the others? (so I can delete them) 22:28:18 Yes. 22:29:09 good, razor was used. 22:32:05 two modules for one function :( 22:36:53 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:39:07 -!- pygospa [~pygospa@g227145201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:40:14 How about running algorithms in arithmic time? 22:40:41 pygospa [~pygospa@g225202018.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 22:42:32 haha.. my "big project" is reduced to two lines with shuffle and for-each 22:43:10 -!- vpalle_ [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:47:29 minion: memo for foof: guile's version of *** in Shinn's match does not work, it looks. Is there a better documatation for the intention of this feature? 22:48:28 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:48:45 -!- toast` [~toast`@m4c0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 22:49:29 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:18 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:22 -!- cpressey is now known as Dubious 23:06:51 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:07:36 Rakko [~rakko@71-90-73-192.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:09:54 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 23:27:34 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 23:34:41 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:49 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 23:38:01 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:16 FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-180.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:42:22 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-58.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:43:32 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:44:58 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-229-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:30 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:55 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 23:53:22 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:49 -!- Dubious is now known as cpressey