00:04:23 Hydr4 [~Lernaean@24-107-60-232.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:04:23 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:04:33 -!- Hydr4 [~Lernaean@24-107-60-232.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:44 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 00:13:19 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:03 Hal9k [~Lernaean@24-107-60-232.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:14:09 -!- Hal9k [~Lernaean@24-107-60-232.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:14:09 Hal9k [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 00:20:23 well, I solved the problem. can't use guile, but I can use mzscheme, nice 00:20:59 djjack [~djjack@cpe-098-026-029-215.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:21:07 -!- jcw [4b83c2ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:22:10 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:32:33 laurus [~laurus@c-68-40-207-109.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:31 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:39:14 Does Scheme have an equivalent command to "dolist" ? 00:39:19 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-235.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:41:18 Usually I prefer `map' (and even prefer using MAPC or MAPCAR in Common Lisp to DOLIST). There might be a more direct equivalent in your implementation of choice. 00:41:52 For instance, Racket has the (for ((v (in-list some-list))) ...) idiom. 00:42:31 Arbitrary Scheme systems have the (loop ((for v (in-list some-list))) ...) idiom using foof-loop! 00:42:52 Thanks! 00:43:25 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:45:50 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:47:22 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #scheme 00:48:41 this might also do (although i never used dolist) 00:48:54 (define-syntax dolist (syntax-rules () ((_ (?item ?list) . ?body) (for-each (lambda (?item) . ?body) ?list)))) 00:49:06 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:52:28 Thanks all 00:53:47 Just looking into how difficult it would be to port this code over 00:55:11 -!- george__ [~george@189.107.175.213] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:55:19 george__ [~george@189.107.175.213] has joined #scheme 00:55:52 -!- george__ [~george@189.107.175.213] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57:04 summersault [~george@189.107.175.213] has joined #scheme 01:18:18 elly_ [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has joined #scheme 01:19:15 -!- pavelludiq [~user@87.246.30.76] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:19:21 -!- elly_ is now known as elly 01:21:19 -!- laurus [~laurus@c-68-40-207-109.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:30:10 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:24 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:37 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:32:55 necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:33:22 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:34:50 so i'm trying to write a macro using define-syntax and syntax-rules 01:35:11 is there anyway i can run code in the macro before the "template" part 01:35:39 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-161-254.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:35:40 -!- IJP [~Ian@host86-185-215-171.range86-185.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:54 necroforest: no 01:35:59 i.e, (define-syntax asdf (syntax-rules () ((asdf x y z) (some-code-here '(this-is-the-transformed code)))) 01:36:12 hmm. i thought that was part of the point of macros? 01:36:25 You'd be surprised how often that isn't necessary, but if you really need it then most impls provide low-level macros. 01:36:39 but low-level macros aren't part of the standard, right? 01:36:48 i guess i just want plane old CL (defmacro) 01:39:07 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.83.83] has quit [] 01:39:42 There are also low-level hygienic macros: syntax-case, syntactic-closures and explicit-renaming. 01:41:07 No, you absolutely do not want DEFMACRO. DEFMACRO is fundamentally a bug. 01:41:50 DEFMACRO completely fails to separate the implementation of a macro from its intended interface, just like dynamic scope with higher-order procedures. 01:42:28 IJP [~Ian@host109-153-22-107.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 01:42:43 However tempting they may be, and whatever nonsense you hear from Common Lispers, you don't want non-hygienic macros. 01:43:39 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:43:44 um, ok 01:45:34 basically, i want to write a macro that dynamically builds a procedure name, defines it, then adds it to a globally defined list 01:46:43 Can you be more specific? There are two different times at which a macro may `do' things -- at compile-time, a macro may do things to compute an expansion, which at run-time does things in the program. 01:46:48 so using DEFMACRO i would do something like (defmacro (my-macro name) (let ((proc-sym (build-proc-sim name)) '(defun ,proc-sim (whatever)))) 01:49:12 necroforest: Can you be more specific? Why are you changing the name? 01:50:21 vishsingh [~vishsingh@bas2-toronto10-2925235706.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 01:51:17 um, basically the name is generated from a "key" so given the "key" i can look up the function name. it's kind of hard to describe without getting into how the system works (which i don't really have time for) 01:51:46 but now that i think about it, it might be easier to generate the things as lambdas and put them into a map 01:53:15 scheme has maps build in, right? 01:53:27 or dictionaries or whatever people want to call them 01:54:21 yes 01:58:34 Maxel [~Maxel@c-66-41-194-153.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:40 -!- vishsingh [~vishsingh@bas2-toronto10-2925235706.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 02:01:14 vishsingh [~vishsingh@bas2-toronto10-2925235706.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 02:06:16 one more question 02:06:56 with hygenic macros, could i have something like (my-macro (if x y z)) where x y z are defined in the macro expansion of my-macro? 02:07:11 i.e, my-macro expands to (lambda (x y z) (if x y z)) or something 02:10:27 yes 02:12:17 excellent 02:12:22 i lied though. i have more questions :) 02:12:32 is there a macro-expand function i can call to see what a macro expands to? 02:13:25 there is in most implementations 02:13:31 what are you using? 02:14:04 right now i'm messing around with racket/drscheme 02:14:14 i'll be actually implementing this in Kawa 02:14:20 (since the thing interfaces with java code) 02:14:28 laurus [~laurus@c-68-40-207-109.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:14:48 Has anyone here ever used http://schemepy.thousandparsec.net/ ? 02:16:54 necroforest: use (syntax->datum (expand )) 02:18:04 thanks 02:18:49 -!- jao [~user@173.243.145.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:19:02 looks like expand isn't defined 02:20:12 you may need to set your language to pretty big 02:20:26 Pretty Big? That has been deprecated for years, hasn't it? 02:23:00 Hmmm... when I go to choose language, the only options are teaching, legacy, or experimental :/ 02:23:21 Isn't there a `module' language? 02:23:40 Riastradh: no, the other option is to just use #lang foo 02:23:53 In that case, I think that's the option you're supposed to use. 02:23:56 necroforest: try starting the file with #lang racket 02:24:00 ah 02:24:04 i had #lang r6rs 02:24:16 Well, sure. The R6RS does not define a binding for the name EXPAND. 02:24:26 Consequently, if you ask for the R6RS language, you don't get that binding. 02:24:43 if i #lang racket i lose hashtabls :/ 02:25:10 well, i get make-hash 02:25:14 but i lose make-eq-hashtable 02:26:08 necroforest: make-hasheq 02:26:17 right 02:26:24 is there a particular reason they have to have different syntax? 02:26:27 the docs are your friend :) 02:26:38 for different flavors of scheme 02:26:47 The R6RS names came later, as part of a standardization effort. 02:28:59 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@69-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:32:35 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:03 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 02:33:13 necroforest pasted "macro problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/113655 02:33:16 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Blessed be the GNU] 02:33:41 hmm, i got expand to work and my macro definitely isn't expanding correctly 02:33:49 could you look at the pastebin and see what i did wrong? 02:36:11 Ugh, Clojure looks just horrible 02:36:23 necroforest: remove the parens around (body ...) 02:37:19 That fixes a different problem, foof. 02:38:08 offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 02:38:17 yeah, i found that one :) 02:38:30 when i call it i get an "unbound x" error 02:38:44 so i guess it's not seeing the binding of x in the lambda because of the #%top thing 02:38:47 That's because the X in the macro's environment is different from the X in the user's environment. 02:39:00 right, which comes from it being a hygenic macro, correct? 02:39:06 SYNTAX-RULES can't reliably get at the X in the user's environment. 02:39:44 adadglgmut [~steve@cpe-65-25-14-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:40:00 is there a way to do it? 02:40:07 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:40:19 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:41:18 technically yes, but it's messy with syntax-rules, you need syntax-case or syntactic-closures 02:41:40 Where are the x, y and z coming from? Do all procedure always have that signature? 02:41:54 Using SYNTAX-CASE, yes, but (1) it's complicated, (2) it is easy to get wrong, (3) the ways it is wrong are subtle and hard to understand even for experts, and (4) the problem is usually avoidable by changing the language you are trying to implement. 02:43:02 foof, yeah 02:45:04 jao [~user@cpe-76-166-198-241.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:45:08 the idea is i might need to add new parameters that not every function would need, so doing this keeps me from having to update the signature whenever i change it 02:47:14 soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 02:47:31 It's pretty straightforward with syntactic-closures. 02:47:44 See the loop and aif examples in http://community.schemewiki.org/?syntactic-closures 02:47:56 Unfortunately racket doesn't support syntactic-closures. 02:48:34 Actually, no, it is not straightforward in syntactic closures, and those examples are wrong. 02:49:16 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-200-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:49:24 Also, that page has been spammed. 02:49:34 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-200-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:50:43 How are they wrong? 02:52:13 -!- laurus [~laurus@c-68-40-207-109.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:52:35 timj__ [~timj@e176193162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:27 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:54:31 Using AIF, this should be a valid definition of OR: (define-syntax or (syntax-rules () ((OR) #F) ((OR e0 e1+ ...) (AIF e0 IT (OR e1+ ...] 02:54:57 Unfortunately, it is not, if AIF is defined as on that page. 02:56:15 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176193130.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:56:43 hey Riastradh what is your thoughts on anaphora 02:57:05 The problem is that AIF binds the *symbol* IT, not whatever name the symbol IT was used to mean in the environment of the user of AIF. 02:57:34 They are a waste of time, soupdragon. See my four points above. 02:58:42 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 02:58:57 It is possible to define AIF right using syntactic closures in riaxpander, because riaxpander provides precisely the operation that AIF needs in order to get at the desired name. 03:05:56 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 03:06:11 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:06:11 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 03:16:03 george_ [~george@189.107.128.220] has joined #scheme 03:16:50 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.175.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:17:12 -!- george_ is now known as summersault 03:44:39 -!- vishsingh [~vishsingh@bas2-toronto10-2925235706.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 03:55:33 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:08 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 04:14:55 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@169-91.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:38:02 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:42 proq` [~user@184-76-24-220.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #scheme 04:41:51 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:55 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:47:04 saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-82-90.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 04:56:16 antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 04:58:27 I'm areally lost is there a tutorial or doc on racket how to define data types? 04:58:38 or just an example code 04:59:22 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:01:30 like it would be useful to have its own implementation of EQUAL? and stuff like that 05:05:55 hohoho [~hohoho@s210-28.pubnet.titech.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 05:14:47 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known as ToxicFrog 13:40:47 red5 [~chatzilla@mlsrj200152101p212.static.mls.com.br] has joined #scheme 13:43:02 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:43:35 -!- pavelludiq [~user@87.246.30.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:43:51 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:44:19 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:44:29 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 13:48:51 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:50:17 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 13:50:19 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:26 luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has joined #scheme 13:53:03 Riastradh, the 'right' way to do AIF in syntax-case is this: http://blog.racket-lang.org/2008/02/dirty-looking-hygiene.html 13:55:42 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-241.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:57:59 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:58:04 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:00:55 femtoo [~femto@95-89-188-69-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 14:02:17 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 14:05:04 alvatar [~alvatar@230.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 14:15:36 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:15:57 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:48 -!- red5 [~chatzilla@mlsrj200152101p212.static.mls.com.br] has left #scheme 14:26:02 samth: that blog gets cut off in firefox 14:26:08 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 14:28:14 foof, it renders fine in my firefox 14:28:23 samth, chandler and I came to the conclusion one day that that, too, exhibits behaviour that composes badly. I don't remember the details offhand, though. 14:28:49 Riastradh, I remember you coming to the conclusion that it was "unhygenic" 14:28:58 i think it composes fine 14:29:09 `Unhygienic' means that it composes badly. 14:29:29 samth: the right-hand side is getting cut off for me: "(syntax-parameterize ([it (make-rename-transf" is all I see 14:29:38 and half of an "o" 14:29:43 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:05 The conclusion was not merely that the macro introduces a name that it shouldn't -- obviously it introduces a name, but that's not what made it unhygienic, and made it compose badly. 14:30:07 foof, i see that now 14:30:19 try copy-and-paste, that seems to get it 14:30:24 i'll report the problem to eli 14:30:27 (Works for me in w3m!) 14:30:39 yeah, i can copy&paste fine 14:32:12 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 14:33:36 how is syntax-parameterize different from using let-syntax there? 14:34:08 syntax-parameterize doesn't introduce a new binding, it 'changes' the old binding 14:34:52 but let-syntax with identifier syntax could do the same 14:34:59 no, it can't 14:35:05 other macros would expand into the old meaning 14:35:13 ah 14:35:19 whereas with syntax-parameterize, other macros get the new meaning 14:37:14 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 14:45:04 ryoko-sha [~steve@ryoko-sha.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:49:45 Found it. Here's the log of the conversation about why chandler and I find that definition of AIF unhygienic: , starting (in the middle of another conversation) at about 17:36. 14:50:01 Blkt [~user@93-33-134-201.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 14:50:35 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:39 good evening 14:57:16 -!- ryoko-sha [~steve@ryoko-sha.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:54 merry christmas 15:09:24 alvatar_ [~alvatar@145.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 15:09:49 -!- karme [~user@stgt-5f7084e4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:23 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@230.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:14:04 ryoko-sha [~steve@ryoko-sha.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:14:16 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 15:14:23 -!- ryoko-sha [~steve@ryoko-sha.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:18 pavelludiq [~user@87.246.30.76] has joined #scheme 15:15:20 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Client Quit] 15:17:12 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:39 ryoko-sha [~steve@ryoko-sha.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:19:20 -!- alvatar_ [~alvatar@145.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:23:51 -!- ryoko-sha [~steve@ryoko-sha.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:04 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 15:27:27 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 15:30:22 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 15:31:00 wingo [~wingo@adsl-75-16-62-19.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:31:03 schemers. 15:31:14 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:31:33 what does `div' in r6rs do when called with flonums? 15:32:16 section 11.7.3 seems to say that div's operands are real numbers, but then it goes on to say something about integer division. 15:34:11 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 15:34:35 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:35:27 soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 15:37:12 -!- wingo [~wingo@adsl-75-16-62-19.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:39 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-57.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:37:39 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-57.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:38:42 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:04 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:39:12 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-57.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:39:14 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-57.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:30 alvatar [~alvatar@145.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 15:41:05 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-57.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:41:20 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 15:41:24 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-167-57.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:41:46 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 15:41:58 wingo [~wingo@adsl-75-16-62-19.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:14 *wingo* guilty of asking questions and stepping out of internet. doh. 15:43:10 rudybot: init r5rs 15:43:12 wingo: your r5rs sandbox is ready 15:43:18 firebalrog [~paul@209.58.245.194] has joined #scheme 15:43:25 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 15:43:26 wingo, i'm guessing it means integers in the same sense 1.0 is an integer 15:43:30 rudybot: eval (modulo -13 4.0) 15:43:31 wingo: ; Value: 3.0 15:43:33 rudybot: eval (modulo -13 4.1) 15:43:33 wingo: error: modulo: expects type as 2nd argument, given: 4.1; other arguments were: -13 15:44:24 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Client Quit] 15:44:24 so e.g. (fldiv-and-mod 3.5 1.5) gives 2.0 (integer) and 0.5 (real) 15:44:50 rudybot: init r6rs 15:44:51 wingo: error: r6rs: must contain a `library' form (for a library) or start with `import' (for a top-level program) in: (#%module-begin) 15:44:52 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 15:45:25 weinholt: and div-and-mod only works for exact integers? 15:45:43 the spec seems rather unclear to me, but that could just be me :P 15:47:44 hmm, as far as i can see it should work for floats, and it does in ikarus 15:48:33 wingo, racket's r6rs impl produces an inexact integer that satisfies the constraints of the relevent section 15:51:02 ah, i see, thanks. 15:51:13 "div returns an integer, and mod returns a real." 15:51:17 at least that's my interpretation of the behavior 15:52:18 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-188-69-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:52:23 so for exact integers, both return exact integers, and it's only for inexact reals that mod returns inexact reals. 15:52:38 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:46 no, `div' returns an *inexact* integer 15:52:48 such as 1.0 15:53:13 but surely (div 10 3) => exact 3, no? 15:53:16 (div 3.2 1.2) => 2.0 15:53:19 yes 15:53:34 ok, i think we agree, i probably didn't express myself right 15:53:41 if both inputs are exact, the result is exact 15:53:44 right. 15:58:00 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.167.69.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:59:15 yay, sfp this weekend 16:04:09 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 16:04:43 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:06:36 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:14:10 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:25 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:20:23 -!- wingo [~wingo@adsl-75-16-62-19.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:02 how do you check if a number is a square in PLT? 16:26:09 like 9 is a square and 13 isn't 16:26:17 wingo [~wingo@173.243.145.79] has joined #scheme 16:26:45 maybe I should write something that extracts the biggest square out of a number and check if it returns 16:26:45 1 16:27:38 (integer? (sqrt n)) seems to do it but I'm not sure if that will always work 16:32:20 -!- luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:18 femtoo [~femto@95-89-188-69-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 16:44:27 luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has joined #scheme 16:45:10 soupdragon, that should always work 16:45:19 cool 16:45:27 modulo the inexactness of floating-point numbers 16:47:38 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:43 hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:00:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:07:21 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-134-201.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 17:13:09 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 17:13:21 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:15:14 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 17:18:36 saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:19:59 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@145.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:20:50 alvatar [~alvatar@155.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:21:15 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 17:21:45 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:26:52 -!- jao [~user@cpe-76-166-198-241.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:35:05 jao [~user@173.243.145.79] has joined #scheme 17:40:22 -!- moell [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: "If you put a million monkeys at a million keyboards, one of them will eventually write a Java program. The rest of them will write Perl programs."] 17:52:38 -!- firebalrog [~paul@209.58.245.194] has left #scheme 18:07:58 copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.165.158.213] has joined #scheme 18:21:57 tidren [~tidren@li87-62.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 18:22:30 Hi everyone 18:23:14 hi 18:23:18 Quick nooby question ... Does anyone know given a function, is it possible to output it's source code? 18:23:26 I'm using chicken scheme 18:23:26 no, you can't do that 18:24:35 tidren, some Scheme systems may be able to point you back toward the place where a function was defined; others may present you with a disassembler; but in general, Scheme requires procedures to be opaque. 18:25:13 so if i did (define (foobar x) (* x x)) i wouldn't be able to do something like (dispfn foobar) 18:25:22 right 18:25:25 ah icic 18:25:26 tidren, you can define your own macro 18:25:34 (define-and-save-source (foobar x) ..) 18:25:47 then "dispfn" (which is a terrible name) can be defined 18:26:13 haha yea, it is terrible 18:26:19 well thanks for the help 18:27:12 I guess I was trying to see if there's an easy way to view the guts of some of the functions I use often 18:30:02 tidren: since you are using Chicken, maybe you'd be interested in #chicken 18:31:50 thanks I'll check out that channel. 18:32:18 beware that it is full of insane individuals 18:35:50 -!- wingo [~wingo@173.243.145.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:36:14 karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 18:37:00 certaint1 [~closure@dslc-082-082-134-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 18:37:15 -!- certaint1 is now known as certainty|home 18:37:44 pavellud` [~user@87.246.30.76] has joined #scheme 18:37:49 -!- pavellud` [~user@87.246.30.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:22 "/ignore -channels #chan1,#chan2,#chan3 * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS" 18:38:41 oops sorry 18:41:04 fowlduck_ [~fowlduck@2002:4547:f82e:0:fa1e:dfff:fed7:9dc1] has joined #scheme 18:42:46 -!- fowlduck [~fowlduck@69.71.248.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:44:29 -!- tidren [~tidren@li87-62.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:45:50 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:48:31 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-25-54.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:49:57 tidren [~tidren@li87-62.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 19:00:05 -!- soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has quit [Quit: soupdragon] 19:00:53 There do exist Scheme systems that can pretty-print the bodies of some procedures -- nothing in Scheme precludes this. However, you're not supposed to rely on this for the semantic correctness of any programs that aren't part of the development environment (REPL, debugger, &c.). 19:04:14 schmir [~schmir@p54A90304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:05:37 -!- tidren [~tidren@li87-62.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:07:21 huy [~huy@li87-62.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 19:08:04 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:08:17 -!- huy [~huy@li87-62.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:51 wingo [~wingo@173.243.145.79] has joined #scheme 19:30:22 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-188-69-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:31:33 lolcow [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:31:33 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:41 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 19:35:44 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:16 schmir [~schmir@p54A90304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:42:02 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@84.38.9.103] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:48:16 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 19:50:28 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:55:41 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-98.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:00:20 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-241.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:03:58 george_ [~george@189.107.161.79] has joined #scheme 20:06:34 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@155.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:09:58 -!- karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:44 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:28:44 saccade__ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-56-178.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:33:13 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:39:48 -!- certainty|home [~closure@dslc-082-082-134-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:51:40 -!- mmc [~michal@93-39-40-29.ip74.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:01 mmc [~michal@93-39-40-29.ip74.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 20:59:45 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:00:20 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:00:22 schmir [~schmir@p54A91972.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:03:35 schmir` [~schmir@p54A91972.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:06:06 schmir`` [~schmir@p54A9129B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:06:15 -!- schmir`` [~schmir@p54A9129B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:24 schmir`` [~schmir@p54A9129B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:06:41 -!- pavelludiq [~user@87.246.30.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:08 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91972.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:11 -!- schmir` [~schmir@p54A91972.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:12:09 pumpkin [~copumpkin@94.164.38.61] has joined #scheme 21:13:16 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.165.158.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:13:18 -!- schmir`` is now known as schmir 21:13:51 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 21:13:57 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:26:43 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@69-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 21:28:56 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-154-60.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:42:46 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-165-76.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 21:52:34 HacKedMinD [~hackedmin@173-16-132-110.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 21:53:34 -!- HacKedMinD is now known as hackedmind 21:53:57 hello! 21:54:47 I'm looking for help: how to read more than one word from the console? as in, (define x (read)) only takes the first string from the input 21:56:21 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Disappaering in a puff of parens] 21:56:46 so call read again 21:57:09 you know that `read' will pares s-expressions, though, right? 21:57:44 no, I don't know what you're saying 21:57:54 Blkt [~user@93-33-129-111.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 21:57:58 do you know what an s-expression is? 21:58:09 but, I should make a looping procedure to call read as many times as I need? 21:58:14 no, *googles* 21:58:18 yea, you can do that 21:58:43 s-expressions are the syntax of scheme, 'x', '(+ 1 1)', "foobar" -- these are all s-expressions 21:58:56 right right 21:59:14 so if the user types in (+ 1 1) and you call (read) you will get back (+ 1 1) 21:59:28 right 21:59:31 but if you type eval 21:59:31 so depending on what you are doing, read may or may not be what you want 21:59:41 (eval (read)), yea you can do that 21:59:44 are you writing a repl? 22:00:02 well, that's what i'm using to write 22:00:08 it's more of a... 22:00:09 what? 22:00:15 er, text-based game 22:00:19 hangman? 22:00:21 lol 22:00:28 rpg 22:00:35 hangman the MMO 22:00:51 lol, more like a dungeon crawler 22:01:07 i'm just trying to build the battle procedure right now 22:01:30 you might want to just get the current input port and parse directly from it 22:01:49 (read-bytes (current-input-port) 10) -- soemthing like that 22:01:57 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 22:02:12 oy 22:02:24 my interpreter doesn't like read-bytes 22:02:46 theres some other stuff to read characters, you can probably read a string 22:03:02 are you using PLT? 22:03:07 Gambit-c 22:05:09 *sob* I have no idea how to write this procedure 22:07:49 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:14 -!- saccade__ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-56-178.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:09:14 question! how to compile a scheme file? so far I'm completely befuzzled on that point 22:10:22 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-30-208.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 22:12:17 saccade__ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-56-178.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 22:14:31 run gsc 22:14:39 not to be a jerk or anything, but did you read the gambit docs? 22:14:41 hmmm.... 22:14:45 http://dynamo.iro.umontreal.ca/~gambit/wiki/index.php/Main_Page 22:14:52 its the first sentence under "whats gambit?" 22:15:21 sob 22:15:34 yes, it's not as though I haven't tried gsc 22:15:46 but then it just makes c code 22:16:03 so I waited half an hour for visuall c++ to install 22:16:04 then run gcc on it 22:16:11 i'm on xp immafraid 22:16:18 theres mingw, gcc for windows 22:16:26 hmmmm....... 22:16:29 *looks up* 22:16:59 theres a one click installer to get gcc 3.4.5, if you want a newer release of mingw, like 4.5, you need to do a lot of funging by hand, its quite painful 22:17:48 i love the linux community and all 22:18:07 and maybe it's just because i'm a noob 22:18:36 i find windows to be the absolute worst OS for development, i recommend linux even if you are unfamiliar with it 22:18:37 but they never put *THIS IS HOW TO GET THE SOFTWARE* right on the homepage 22:18:53 ha yes.. thats because linux people have no concept of "other people" 22:19:00 lol 22:28:38 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:29:15 -!- george_ [~george@189.107.161.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:31:30 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:36 this doesn't make any sense.... 22:34:48 *gets frustrated and dies* 22:34:58 *ressurects* 22:35:16 jonra, say, do you build software with scheme? 22:36:16 yea sometimes 22:36:21 i work with racket 22:36:23 how do you do it? 22:36:34 racket... so that's a scheme compiler? 22:36:37 well thats quite an open ended question 22:36:54 racket is sort of like gambit 22:37:01 only better I take it lol 22:37:08 its an intepreter + compiler + runtime + tons of libraries 22:37:50 -!- saccade__ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-56-178.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:39:45 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 22:41:13 is there a point to the picture-drawing ability? 22:42:24 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-129-111.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:43:51 so you can draw pictures 22:44:22 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmk seems pretty pointless 22:44:50 ayway, (and by the way thanks for putting up with my noobishness)............ 22:45:25 you can compile with racket, but then what? does it become c code or what? 22:46:40 it can create native executables, by linking the runtime and the bytecode together, there is no intermediate C code 22:47:21 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A9129B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:48 schmir [~schmir@p54A9129B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:59:48 well, thanks a bundle jonrafkind 22:59:57 sure 23:00:14 -!- fowlduck_ [~fowlduck@2002:4547:f82e:0:fa1e:dfff:fed7:9dc1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:20 good sailing 23:00:27 -!- hackedmind [~hackedmin@173-16-132-110.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:39 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 23:03:35 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A9129B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:35 outworlder [~outworlde@186.213.42.71] has joined #scheme 23:10:42 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:13:37 -!- outworlder [~outworlde@186.213.42.71] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:39 outworlder [~outworlde@186.213.42.71] has joined #scheme 23:16:03 -!- mmc [~michal@93-39-40-29.ip74.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:26 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 23:20:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:34 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 23:31:10 mmc [~michal@93-39-40-29.ip74.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 23:32:40 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Dinner already?!] 23:33:59 -!- cipher__ is now known as cipher 23:41:09 Komi [Komi@83.231.88.160] has joined #scheme 23:42:07 hi 23:43:01 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:44:12 is there a more concise or elegant way to write this procedure? 23:44:18 http://pastebin.com/0fdD6MHV 23:45:44 probably not :) 23:46:02 i don't like the (do ...) thing much :( 23:46:10 me neither, but it is indeed concise 23:46:14 (and i always forget the syntax but that's another story) 23:46:17 I myself use let/ec, which I hear is somehow more efficient, or something, than call/cc 23:46:31 it's _because_ I never remember the syntax, that I don't like it. 23:47:11 *Komi* looking at let/ec docs 23:47:22 rudybot: doc let/ec 23:47:23 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/cont.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fletstx-scheme..rkt)._let%2Fec)) 23:47:26 you mean ... those? ^^ 23:47:35 racket-lang.org ... 23:47:45 yes! 23:47:55 jonrafkind: dude, I didn't write the "gimme the URL to the docs" code. 23:48:04 dude brah cmon 23:48:17 don't tase me, brah 23:48:18 Komi, http://pastebin.com/JwCJa6GQ 23:48:33 samth_away: wow! 23:48:46 i never would have guessed that code in a million years 23:48:54 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 23:48:57 didn't know about for/first, nor have I ever yet found a use for #:when. 23:49:06 it's a pretty direct translation of the desired semantics 23:49:07 heh me neither 23:49:09 That should be in the PLT docs, if there isn't already a similar example. 23:49:24 it just happens that the `for' macros have all 3 of the tools needed 23:49:32 (for*, #:when, for/first) 23:49:39 samth_away: that's amazing 23:49:42 :)) 23:49:54 really, Matthew wrote all of that 23:50:03 ok, now i'm really away 23:54:03 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 23:54:30 sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@c-98-216-238-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:54:32 -!- sstrickl_ is now known as sstrickl 23:55:12 Komi: (collect-first (for a (up-from 1 (to 501))) (for b (up-from 1 (to 501))) (if (our-triple? a b)) (list a b (- 1000 a b] 23:55:28 Oh, you already have an answer. 23:55:47 (That is with foof-loop and nested-foof-loop, which work on arbitrary Schemes, not just Racket.) 23:56:16 that's nice too, it looks a bit like cl loop 23:58:13 Only cosmetically. The structure is very different. 23:58:14 I don't have any clue how CL LOOP works, but foof-loop and nested-foof-loop have structures that I think are reasonably clear. 23:58:17 it's also easier to remember than do 23:58:18 :) 23:58:47 george_ [~george@189.107.161.79] has joined #scheme 23:58:51 foof-loop (not nested-foof-loop) is very nearly a drop-in replacement for DO. 23:59:05 at first i wanted to solve the problems in r5rs-only to learn but it's a bit of a kludge sometimes 23:59:18 so i guess i'll learn to use for/... and the foof-loops 23:59:28 foof-loop and nested-foof-loop use only what is in the R5RS.