00:01:25 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.midd.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 00:03:59 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 608 seconds] 00:06:58 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:08:10 -!- nickdaly` [~user@24-196-91-126.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:18 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #scheme 00:11:20 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:57 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:23:37 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 615 seconds] 00:23:42 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 00:25:47 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:30:36 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-172.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:32:16 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: [TalkSoup] Get it today: http://talksoup.aeruder.net] 00:33:17 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #scheme 00:37:10 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@12.152.199.77] has joined #scheme 00:45:32 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 624 seconds] 00:45:34 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:47:24 Riastradh: Chibi now catches signals and atomically schedules the handlers into the thread queue, so you can't lose an fd due to an interrupt. 00:55:44 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #scheme 00:58:35 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-131-87.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:02:19 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@12.152.199.77] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:06:45 jao [~user@cpe-76-166-198-241.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:08:03 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 619 seconds] 01:18:09 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #scheme 01:30:42 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 622 seconds] 01:33:40 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@7-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:39:07 nickdaly` [~user@24-196-91-126.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:39:35 -!- nickdaly` is now known as nickdaly 01:40:32 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #scheme 01:40:37 -!- tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ad471cc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:00 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:52:46 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 619 seconds] 01:52:53 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit:  In our sky there is no limits, and masters we have none; heavy metal is the only one! ] 02:00:01 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 02:02:13 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:54 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #scheme 02:10:58 -!- _danb_ [~user@203-158-56-227.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:14:38 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds] 02:17:27 how do I draw a diagram and use a slider to change the parameter ? 02:17:42 like say (define (y x) (sin (* k x))) 02:17:50 should draw a wiggly line but I want to change k 02:21:19 bleh racket doesn't load plot 02:24:27 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #scheme 02:27:07 foof, are file descriptors wrapped by objects with associated finalizers, and are the objects initialized atomically when file descriptors are created? 02:28:00 Not yet. 02:28:46 The "atomically" part comes for free in the thread system though, since all C functions are atomic. 02:29:26 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:31:11 For wrapping the fd's I just need to decide how to keep them in sync - you can move from fd to port and back, and you can't reclaim the resource if either are reachable. 02:31:56 In MIT Scheme each channel (the object wrapping a file descriptor) has a reference to any port over it, of which there may be at most one. 02:32:02 Not to mention the concept of the fd is as a number, and if you allow moving from a number to an fd all such bets are off. 02:32:05 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:46 (I'm reserving "channel" for the thread message-passing interface.) 02:33:02 There are two concepts: the operating system resource, and Scheme's responsibility for the resource. 02:33:22 The operating system resource has a number; Scheme's responsibility for the resource has an object with a finalization procedure. 02:37:01 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 622 seconds] 02:37:23 So integer->channel creates an fd-wrapper that _doesn't_ close on finalization, but the results of, say, pipe(2) _do_ close? 02:41:38 MIT Scheme doesn't have any INTEGER->CHANNEL; channels are an abstraction that on Unix happens to involve file descriptors. 02:43:06 -!- chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has left #scheme 02:44:19 I think it is a mistake for a file descriptor object not to be finalized by closing the file descriptor. 02:44:20 Hmmm, I guess the ports and channels reference each other cyclically? 02:44:27 Yes. 02:45:10 And the ports are always created with a channel and the channel does the finalizing? 02:45:38 Ports are not always created with a channel. There can, however, be at most one port created for a given channel. 02:46:19 Closing the port closes the channel. The finalization procedure that closes the file descriptor, however, is associated with the channel, not with the port. Ports do not typically have finalization procedures associated with them. After all, they are not necessarily associated with foreign resources. 02:46:44 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #scheme 02:52:32 timj_ [~timj@e176195223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:55:52 foof, if you remind me about this by email, I'll send you a draft implementation of what I think a Scheme interface to Unix file descriptors should look like, taking into careful consideration the question of who is responsible for each file descriptor. 02:56:34 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176192037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:56:36 I must vanish now. 02:58:25 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds] 02:59:12 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:02:37 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:05:13 -!- fod [~fod@92.251.255.7.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:15 Riastradh: sure, that would be appreciated 03:08:43 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:09 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:16:23 -!- nickdaly [~user@24-196-91-126.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:50 I want to use Chibi to reimplement SCSH-like functionality, so I'll need to work with fd's a lot and need to avoid leaking them. 03:29:25 IceD^ [~iced@live.bn.by] has joined #scheme 03:29:28 heya 03:29:48 "hello" => "Hello", "foo,bar" => "Foo.bar" - how? 03:30:06 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:30:08 e.g. just capitalize first letter 03:30:32 IceD^: using SRFI-13, `string-titlecase' 03:30:43 foof, no 03:30:53 "foo.bar" => "Foo.Bar" 03:31:29 Perset [~Perset@cpe-24-92-71-240.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:31:29 that's what string-titlecase returns 03:31:48 yes 03:31:57 and I need "Foo.bar" 03:32:01 ah 03:32:54 (define (tc s) (if (equal? s "") s (string-append (string (char-upcase (string-ref s 0))) (substring s 1 (string-length s))))) 03:33:31 yeah - did this already - weird way for such simple task 03:34:46 (define (tc s) (if (equal? s "") s (let ((r (string-copy s))) (string-set! r 0 (char-upcase (string-ref r 0))) r))) 03:35:43 it's gonna look the same in pretty much any language 03:38:31 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:42:39 foof, I mean behaviour of string-titlecase is weird 03:42:59 it should accept char-set at least 03:43:15 but I doubt they will adjust r6rs just for me ;))) 03:43:44 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-0-142.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:44:08 -!- IceD^ [~iced@live.bn.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:44:21 "For every character c in the selected range of s, if c is preceded by a cased character, it is downcased; otherwise it is titlecased." 03:45:37 So "hello world" becomes "Hello World" like you would expect. 03:45:55 "dr. nick." becomes "Dr. Nick." 03:46:29 "foo.bar" isn't natural language, so specifying what happens there is difficult 03:46:41 ski [~slj@c-3810e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 03:47:01 But either way, there's no char-set involved - it's looking at whether the individual chars have a unicode case property or not. 04:00:01 hohoho [~hohoho@p67f6db.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:09:24 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-0-142.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:38 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.112] has joined #scheme 04:22:01 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p67f6db.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:14 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.112] has quit [Client Quit] 04:25:34 hohoho [~hohoho@p67f6db.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:28:05 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-3.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 04:28:38 -!- 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[~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:35 schmir [~schmir@p54A91522.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 12:38:38 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:39:14 femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 12:42:14 elderK [~elderK@125-238-255-98.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 12:42:14 -!- elderK [~elderK@125-238-255-98.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 12:42:14 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 12:43:27 karme [~user@stgt-5f70b87d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 12:44:24 metasyntax [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #scheme 12:48:38 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@40.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:01:57 soupdragon, look up the 'plot' library 13:02:08 thanks but it doesn't work 13:02:16 how so? 13:02:20 some dylib thing I don't understand 13:02:41 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 13:03:43 works great for me 13:03:55 you shouldn't use hard-to-understand os's like OSX :) 13:04:11 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 13:04:24 you say that as if linux actually boots on this machine 13:08:34 i'd be surprised if no one has ever made linux boot on some consumer machine 13:09:03 k 13:09:39 I'd like to try malicious monkey if it didn't waste a CD 13:10:19 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10:33 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:25 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:24:59 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:25:20 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 13:30:33 tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ad471cc.bb.sky.com] 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14:57:37 josephholsten [~josephhol@216.16.128.242] has joined #scheme 14:58:44 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 15:00:34 fod [~fod@92.251.255.7.threembb.ie] has joined #scheme 15:02:02 Wonder if anyone's made a joke of Perl, where it has all the same letters as REPL. 15:02:12 The Print Eval Read Loop, perhaps? ;) 15:02:26 *offby1* stares blankly 15:02:37 Well, gee, I thought it was funny. 15:02:59 Azuvix, that reversal featured in Shriram Krishnamurthi's Perl Before Swine. 15:03:53 gnomon_: Gah, and here I thought I was being clever. 15:04:42 *offby1* glows brightly 15:06:54 Putt expressly, reducing lines 15:07:17 Practically Everything Runs Lamely 15:07:48 Actually, Perl was one of my first languages, I just don't mind making fun of it. 15:08:12 Every time you mock it, it grows stronger 15:08:13 *offby1* backs away slowly 15:08:31 (Should we mock scheme, then?) 15:08:44 Jafet: Surely you jest. 15:14:27 -!- jimrees_ [~jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:16:51 Let's mock objects. 15:18:15 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:18:27 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:18:58 Ah yes... 15:19:11 What did the Java programmer say when her virtual machine crashed? 15:19:23 Oh s***. 15:19:29 Close enough. 15:19:30 Guess I need to reboot again. 15:19:31 *sigh* 15:19:33 "OOP". 15:19:37 Isn't that what everyone says? 15:19:49 Possibly. ;) 15:19:53 Or maybe she said "The network IS the computer" 15:20:04 Or "That Larry Ellison sure is a jerk" 15:20:19 A seasoned functional programmer once thought he'd take up objects to solve a problem. 15:20:24 He now has two problems. 15:20:25 Or "I may be using a crappy language, but at least my Sun keyboard puts the control key where God intended" 15:20:48 Bwahahahahaha! 15:20:53 Hey, I know: how about an object-oriented regular expression library? 15:21:18 You mean what essentially looks like a dial-up modem's spare output? 15:21:20 ;) 15:22:01 lawlz. 15:22:02 I've been using Python at work for a few years now, and only recently figured out what classes are for: they're a hack to get around the strange lack of real lexical scope. 15:22:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:22:14 offby1, I wonder if you could put an object in a macro, or vice versa. 15:22:43 Know the best part of Python? The fact that you can ignore the objects. ;) 15:24:31 If I had an object for every line of Java code that doesn't run, what would I have? 15:25:33 A metric shitton? 15:25:45 More or less. :) 15:25:51 Probably more. 15:26:22 gnomon_: I think if you bring objects and macros together, they annihilate each other. 15:26:24 Know the reason that web programming has so many problems? People trying to jam foreign objects into their ports. 15:26:41 That one's kinda naughty. 15:26:42 *offby1* backs away slowly 15:26:44 ;) 15:27:05 dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-244-209.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:27:38 -!- mmc [~michal@109.117.167.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:28:07 Oh, and what I pictured people saying about introducing a "free Java platform"... 15:28:27 "That devil's spit doesn't even work for a proprietary version!" 15:31:38 mmc [~michal@109.112.17.6] has joined #scheme 15:34:10 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:13 weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme 15:44:38 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:48:06 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Enjoy] 15:50:56 jimrees_ [~jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 15:51:44 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@cs27065016.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:53:24 ineiros [~itniemin@cs27065016.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 15:55:12 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:20 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:57:10 tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ad471cc.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 16:00:45 -!- tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ad471cc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:10 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-148-10.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:19 femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 16:10:31 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 16:13:15 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:14:12 hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:14:49 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-171-238.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:15:25 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-3.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 16:15:37 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:15:49 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-3.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:17:57 somnium [~user@adsl-65-181-53.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:15 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-244-209.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:32 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 16:30:14 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #scheme 16:32:04 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:32:15 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 16:40:38 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:53 I'm pretty sure Jafet does not jest, and you shouldn't call him Shirley. 16:53:14 -!- karme [~user@stgt-5f70b87d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:34 -!- fod [~fod@92.251.255.7.threembb.ie] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:03 fod [~fod@92.251.255.7.threembb.ie] has joined #scheme 17:12:01 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:26:14 jao [~user@173.243.145.79] has joined #scheme 17:27:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:45:13 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:56:54 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:01:38 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:00 luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has joined #scheme 18:10:06 saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-82-90.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 18:24:07 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 18:25:35 ho what 18:26:22 jcowan: ho where? 18:28:08 There! 18:45:32 femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 18:46:08 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 18:47:42 mathk_ [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-251-233.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:47:59 -!- mathk_ [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-251-233.adsl.proxad.net] has left #scheme 18:54:05 -!- luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:00 -!- somnium [~user@adsl-65-181-53.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:51 luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has joined #scheme 19:05:18 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 19:17:13 schmir [~schmir@p54A90402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:19:46 lolcow [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:19:47 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:57 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:28:14 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:28:15 -!- lolcow [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:13 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@28.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:52:10 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:15:28 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-197.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:19:43 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-247.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:36:28 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 20:55:34 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:02:00 -!- luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 21:04:56 femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 21:05:10 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:21:55 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 21:32:49 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:37:06 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 21:45:33 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:00 sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@c-98-216-238-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:54:00 -!- sstrickl_ is now known as sstrickl 22:04:50 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:06:39 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:13:01 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:37 -!- fod [~fod@92.251.255.7.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34:51 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:36:22 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 22:40:05 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:41:02 http://ninapaley.com/mimiandeunice/archives/rivalrous-vs-non-rivalrous/492 Nice :D 22:41:26 -!- mmc [~michal@109.112.17.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:44:02 IceD^ [~iced@live.bn.by] has joined #scheme 22:44:06 heya 22:44:21 I got input port in function and wanna seek -10 bytes from end 22:44:23 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@c-98-216-238-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #scheme 22:45:13 is it possible without resorting to lower abstraction level? 22:48:10 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:55:02 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:56:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:39 hmm 22:57:54 I can't find how to do it withing r6rs/srfi even on file level 22:58:42 set-port-position! 22:59:17 foof, it does it from start of the port 22:59:56 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:13 I need it from the end (in C terms fseek(f, -10, SEEK_END)) 23:00:53 funny, scheme works better for me (compared to CL) in almost all aspects 23:00:55 oh, you're right, that's stupid :/ 23:01:17 but periodically I'm experiencing weird issues 23:01:24 like impossibility to get file size 23:01:34 mmc [~michal@109.112.229.253] has joined #scheme 23:01:48 well, it's possible - read to bytevector and get its length 23:01:49 e.g. 23:01:49 Prior to R6RS every implementation of the fseek I'd seen allowed the start/cur/end options. 23:02:16 but you know - it'll be not so efficient :) 23:03:00 if you know the file size in advance from stat() you can do it 23:03:05 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:13 there is stat here? 23:03:15 let me check 23:03:31 and port-position will let you effectively do relative seeks 23:03:51 no, r6rs only has file-exists? and delete-file, no file-size 23:03:59 ... much less stat 23:04:25 so - it's impossible to get file length :)) 23:04:26 nice 23:05:15 yeah - I checked "Files" section in r6rs lib spec - it's pretty nice 23:09:04 r6rs is in limbo - it was strongly rejected by many implementations, and there's not much work going on extending it 23:10:09 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 23:10:16 I'd better go with CL rather than r5rs 23:10:26 as r5rs is almost as messy as CL 23:10:36 ! 23:10:39 in what way? 23:11:14 it's my internal mess-o-meter 23:11:14 :) 23:11:36 really, I love r6rs, excluding some not-so-nice things 23:11:43 seriously, i'm working on r7rs, i want to know specifics 23:12:28 I can tell you what I love in r6rs 23:12:41 it's fantastic naming convention for example 23:13:31 like "hashtable" without a "-" ? 23:13:51 like string->list e.g. 23:13:52 :) 23:13:56 ... 23:14:00 that's from r5rs 23:14:06 hmm 23:14:07 :) 23:14:10 if you can't say what's messy in r5rs you don't know r5rs 23:15:09 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: I bless your computer, my child] 23:21:22 lol, can't read 2GB file into bytevector (so I assume it's not using mmap internally) 23:22:02 IceD^: probably using UCS4, i.e. turning 2GB of ASCII into 8GB in memory. 23:22:30 oh... bytevector? 23:22:46 nm 23:24:26 http://pastebin.com/2iuE8ywV 23:24:40 will be OK for now 23:24:51 later on I'll switch to FFI or smth 23:25:05 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 23:25:07 btw - if you are woring on r7rs - we REALLY need standard FFI 23:25:28 make scheme more practical - ffi, more complete standard lib 23:25:29 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-0-92.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:26:14 IceD^, do you switch scheme implementations a lot? 23:26:35 jonrafkind, I'm trying to be impl-independant 23:26:48 it's fun project ATM 23:28:34 seems like there should be an FFI srfi 23:28:50 but there is no :) 23:28:58 propose it! 23:29:07 how? 23:29:11 I'm really new to scheme 23:29:20 as lang and as community 23:29:49 you could look through previous srfi's to see what the structure of one is and use that as a template 23:30:10 http://srfi.schemers.org/final-srfis.html 23:30:19 k - it's low priority TODO now for me :) 23:31:14 but let's return to my issue - any way on pure r6rs + any final srfis to get file length without resorting to read it byte-by-byte 23:31:41 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-50/srfi-50.html 23:31:56 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 23:32:17 there is one ;) 23:32:20 TODO removed :) 23:33:07 ugh, what a failure title.. i searched for "ffi" and "foreign" 23:33:28 IceD^, that srfi was withdrawn 23:33:51 jonrafkind, I searched for the same terms ;) 23:33:58 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:15 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:34:31 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 23:35:34 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:36:26 SRFI-50 was too ambitious - just calling C from Scheme is a lot to specify 23:37:15 SRFI 50 was also totally broken in design, and -- here's the really bizarre and twisted part -- a certain tl was *right* about that. 23:38:03 Well, tl spent a lot of time working on FFIs and C-based Scheme implementations. 23:40:53 Oh, right, I was going to send you some code about file descriptors. 23:41:51 Oh, wow... SRFI-50 really is totally broken. All C values are untyped from the Scheme side. 23:42:30 And 90% of the SRFI is about accessing Scheme from C. 23:43:01 Shall I send it to your Gmail address, foof? 23:43:04 What were they smoking? 23:43:10 Riastradh: yes, thanks! 23:43:30 Blame the designers of Elk -- that's where it came from originally, though it passed through Scheme48 on the way to SRFI 50. 23:46:21 seems like r7rs should just be a combination of existing srfi's and maybe some non-existing ones (like ffi) 23:46:46 OK, jonrafkind. Go propose that to the committee and get everyone to agree. 23:46:47 how come thats not the case? every N years, take the srfi's for the current rNrs, create rN+1rs. then make more srfi's for that one 23:46:52 Be sure to specify which SRFIs. 23:46:59 jonrafkind, that's the current haskell standards process 23:47:05 Be sure to have justification ready for each and every one. 23:47:11 does it work in haskell land? 23:48:15 What works in Haskell land is an executable reference implementation of Haskell that people really use -- GHC. We don't have that in Scheme land. Some SRFIs have reference implementations, which are sometimes executable, and which some people use, sometimes, but none of that has any bearing on whether a SRFI is final. 23:51:49 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:56:18 -!- Guest38273 is now known as klutometis 23:56:58 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:58:29 Riastradh: speaking of which, is there a process for rescinding final SRFIs? i've heard you wax regretful on more than one occasion about vector lib, though i don't understand why (it's actually useful once in a while). 23:58:41 No, there is no such process. 23:59:30 There's no reason to use SRFI 43 instead of, say, nested-foof-loop. I screwed up any handy operations such as VECTOR-MAP and VECTOR-BINARY-SEARCH (go figure).