00:05:35 ASau``: It looks harmless to do so, but any particular reasonf for it? 00:06:03 ASau``: In any case, I'm out on a kind of a semi-vacation thing, so can you please mail me a reminder? 00:13:13 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:13:15 katesmith_ [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:14:19 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmith 00:14:29 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:14:29 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #scheme 00:20:03 Komi [Komi@83.231.84.137] has joined #scheme 00:20:12 hi 00:25:27 -!- somnium [~user@adsl-65-186-72.dab.bellsouth.net] has left #scheme 00:25:58 nicktick [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nicktick] has joined #scheme 00:27:32 saccade [~saccade@209-6-36-151.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:42:52 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.185] has joined #scheme 00:44:08 -!- nicktick [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nicktick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:29 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-36-151.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:53:33 nicktick [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nicktick] has joined #scheme 00:57:37 saccade [~saccade@209-6-39-179.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:06:27 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has quit [Quit: I must have accidentally left my workstation!] 01:10:32 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-166-36.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:50 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 01:15:40 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:15:51 ecloud [~rutledge@ip72-208-148-56.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:21:23 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-159-95.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:27:01 eli: the reason is simple: there 01:27:09 -!- nicktick [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nicktick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:14 there's no /bin/bash in operating systems. 01:27:38 /bin/sh exists in most cases and only in one of them it isn't sane. 01:27:48 But that has to be treated specially anyway. 01:29:22 nicktick [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nicktick] has joined #scheme 01:31:06 -!- nicktick [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nicktick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:07 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:42:57 nicktick [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nicktick] has joined #scheme 01:43:32 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.84.137] has quit [] 01:44:48 -!- nicktick [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nicktick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:24 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:51:04 *jcowan* unvanishes and all. 01:57:56 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:00:44 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 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-!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:03:00 anli_ : `(do y 0 image-height (+ y 1) ...)' is wrong (and is probably the cause of the error); you're missing brackets (and something more) -- see my earlier annotation (and specbot's link about `do') 06:04:04 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@120.155.175.0] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 06:04:42 Not that "do" is complex or anything 06:04:43 *offby1* ducks 06:05:27 Brackets or parentheses? Careful how you answer! 06:06:37 #t 06:14:35 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Quit: bbl] 06:14:36 dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-244-187.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 06:17:49 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:20:17 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:46 nicktick [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/nicktick] has joined #scheme 06:29:34 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 06:32:54 ahc [~Antti@ip-87-108-75-67.customer.academica.fi] has joined #scheme 06:37:26 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 06:38:01 -!- rmrfchik [~rmrfchik@linuxhacker.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:38:19 rmrfchik [~rmrfchik@linuxhacker.ru] has joined #scheme 06:39:48 phao [~phao@189.107.136.163] has joined #scheme 06:44:35 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.136.163] has left #scheme 06:55:09 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:55:31 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.185] has joined #scheme 06:56:00 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #scheme 06:56:08 cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 06:56:30 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #scheme 07:07:28 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:26:38 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #scheme 07:31:02 mmc [~michal@109.112.54.32] has joined #scheme 07:31:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 07:39:43 ASau``: But the file itself is a testing utility, so I don't think that there's any pressing need to have it working on random platforms. 07:40:21 In any case, it should be harmless (since the contents is coming from the launcher scripts that should definitely be portable), so just mail me and I'll push the change at some point when I sync work. 07:41:35 Alright. 07:42:23 ASau``: Is this due to some distro packaging? 07:45:07 Not a "distro," just packaging. 07:45:07 We check for some "strange" things. 07:45:07 (Like non-existing interpreters.) 07:46:32 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has left #scheme 07:46:48 ASau``: Tat's what I suspected -- in that case, you probably want to just drop the whole "tests" directory, as we do with our installers. 07:47:00 (What kind of packaging, btw?) 07:47:09 pkgsrc 07:47:26 Is that the debian thing? 07:47:34 -!- cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:48:54 It works there too. 07:54:20 choas [~lars@p5B0DC5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:56:12 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 08:04:26 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 08:20:25 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:24:07 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:28 cvkrishnakumar 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nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-48-33.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:01:18 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-094-160.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:03:37 offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 11:03:37 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-094-160.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:03:37 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 11:03:37 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-48-33.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 11:04:59 Well isn't this cozy? 11:05:10 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.80.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:07:58 ahc_ [~Antti@ip-87-108-75-67.customer.academica.fi] has joined #scheme 11:08:21 -!- ahc_ [~Antti@ip-87-108-75-67.customer.academica.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 11:08:58 -!- ahc [~Antti@ip-87-108-75-67.customer.academica.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:17:24 wow: http://norstrulde.org/ilge10/index.html 11:28:57 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit 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joined #scheme 12:25:35 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:29:56 wingo-pi: nah, wow would be if it had call/cc ;) 12:31:07 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:31:19 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:33:36 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:33:38 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:54:28 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DC5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:15:47 choas [~lars@p5B0DC5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:22:00 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 13:23:28 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:50 asarch [~asarch@189.188.153.86] has joined #scheme 13:26:07 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-88-83.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 13:32:12 -!- asarch 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has joined #scheme 14:36:50 -!- milosn [~milosn@cpc3-rdng14-0-0-cust28.winn.cable.ntl.com] has left #scheme 14:38:20 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:11 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@31.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:24 alvatar [~alvatar@132.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 14:51:54 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-244-187.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:53 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 14:52:56 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:52:57 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 14:57:24 edlinde [~edlinde@213.1.222.66] has joined #scheme 14:57:56 hi all, I am just looking at a SICP video lecture... and it mentioned using (first 'hello) 14:58:04 this doesn't work on my DrRacket 14:58:11 first: expected argument of type ; given hello 14:58:27 what does this error mean? 14:58:45 they're using some non-standard definitions of some things in the SICP videos, i think 14:59:01 ok 14:59:09 so I cannot do that ? 14:59:17 edlinde: `first', in _Scheme_, is from SRFI-1. 14:59:25 edlinde: you can (define first car) 14:59:30 iirc, there is a DrRacket Language for SICP 14:59:46 I have set the lang to scheme 14:59:50 in Dr Racket 14:59:53 well, (car 'hello)isn't going to be much fun either 14:59:54 edlinde: You might want to look at http://www.neilvandyke.org/sicp-plt/ 15:00:16 edlinde: what is (first 'hello) _supposed_ to do, according to that video? 15:00:42 gives h 15:00:49 >_> 15:00:55 offby1 : return the character `h' (whether as a symbol or as a real character, i don't recall) 15:01:32 there is no butfirst as well 15:01:45 chandler: so what am I supposed to do with that link sorry? 15:02:34 I just installed Dr Racket coz someone said it would be simple to use instead of having to learn emacs and stuff 15:02:46 You're supposed to read it. Do you have a web browser? 15:05:05 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 15:11:35 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:11:54 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 15:24:26 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-094-160.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:30:07 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.88.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:12 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 15:34:33 kuribas [~user@d54C436D0.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 15:35:19 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:36:47 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:31 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 15:39:24 -!- fowlduck [~fowlduck@204.15.109.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:38 edlinde: here's a sad fact: those videos are very old, and the family of languages known as "scheme" have changed a lot since they were made. 15:42:23 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:19 -!- peterhil [peterhil@ZYMMMDCCLXXXVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:47:02 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 15:50:26 peterhil [peterhil@YMMDCXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 15:51:03 zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 16:00:37 -!- peterhil [peterhil@YMMDCXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:05:39 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 16:06:50 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:10:10 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@213.1.222.66] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 16:11:20 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:12:11 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:13:03 Modius 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has joined #scheme 19:06:10 ecloud [~rutledge@ip72-208-148-56.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:24 edlinde [~edlinde@cpc2-sgyl9-0-0-cust659.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 19:06:52 does anyone here use DrRacket on a mac? 19:07:06 I am looking at this --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAHA0nJv8EA 19:07:11 to understand SICP 19:07:37 and was wondering why I am unable to use functions like - first, word, butfirst ? 19:07:50 are these not scheme standard functions? 19:08:30 Those are not standard Scheme functions. 19:08:54 gnomon: so then how can I practise what is in that tutorial? 19:09:03 on DrRacket I mean 19:09:13 -!- chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:17 I couldn't tell you; I don't use it. 19:09:30 chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has joined #scheme 19:09:39 (sorry; I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just don't know) 19:09:57 gnomon: just wondering how the lecturer then says that those functions are predefined? 19:10:26 yeah thats fine... I am just trying to learn SICP by doing some excercises on the side too 19:10:38 My guess would be that the lecturer is referring to a specific language mode settable in the DrRacket interface at startup time. 19:12:23 saccade [~saccade@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:13:01 joelmccracken [~joelmccra@pool-71-182-171-134.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:13:16 ok does anyone know what this language mode is? 19:13:27 I have used #lang scheme 19:15:17 man this is annoying 19:15:18 What language mode does the lecturer suggest? 19:15:39 gnomon: He's watching the ages-old SICP lectures, and there's some crufty language used there. 19:16:02 edlinde: I don't think you'll find a language mode or any implementation of Scheme that supports the exact dialect being used in those videos, sorry. 19:16:18 SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has joined #scheme 19:16:43 hmm thats sucky 19:16:46 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5A4E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:16:58 but isn't SICP supposed to be the book to learn from? 19:17:03 chandler, ah, I see. Thanks for the background; I've never watched the lecture videos. 19:17:16 It is, but the lectures predate the most recent edition of the books. 19:17:27 I am going to be doing a functional programming course soon so thought I can learn a bit about it 19:17:35 ok 19:17:41 In fact, they're 24 years old. Things have changed. 19:17:43 didnt know that 19:21:43 Mind boggling 19:21:46 gnomon: Oh, and I haven't watched them either, but I know how old they are, and just how much has changed since then! 19:22:00 That those lectures are almost as old as I am, and are still relevant 19:22:44 Older than me! 19:24:07 chandler: Actually, the lecture he linked to is a Berkeley one 19:24:28 So he should probably use whatever Scheme they use 19:25:14 masm [~masm@bl15-67-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 19:25:55 I'm a bit confused with racket's html/xml library. (xexpr->string (read-html-as-xml (get-pure-port (string->url "http://news.ycombinator.com")))) this should produce a string of the entire html source of hacker news, should it not? 19:25:57 Oh, that's different yet. 19:26:45 actually, i'm thinking there is a bug in xexpr->string 19:27:12 IJP: Good catch. 19:27:48 is SICP 2nd edition the latest one to follow? 19:27:57 http://paste.lisp.org/submit 19:28:02 or is there a more recent edition? 19:28:06 shoot, sorry 19:28:53 joelmccracken pasted "xexpr->string error?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112656 19:29:44 joelmccracken: Yes? It isn't an xexpr. 19:30:40 http://docs.racket-lang.org/html/index.html#(def._((lib._html/main..rkt)._read-html-as-xml)) Is this documented wrong? 19:31:26 edlinde: This scheme may be more suited for following along with the berkeley lectures http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~scheme/ 19:31:28 Er, yeah, that's wrong. The contract given is correct, but that's not an X-expression. 19:32:04 yeah okay, so thats the issue. I thought maybe the concept of an xexpr had changed with the update 19:33:08 You might want to try something like: (xexpr->string (xml->xexpr (first (read-html-as-xml (get-pure-port (string->url "http://news.ycombinator.com")))))) 19:34:06 rudybot: eval (require xml html net/url) 19:34:14 chandler: your sandbox is ready 19:34:18 rudybot: eval (xexpr->string (xml->xexpr (first (read-html-as-xml (get-pure-port (string->url "http://news.ycombinator.com")))))) 19:34:19 chandler: error: tcp-connect: network access denied: ("news.ycombinator.com" 80 client) 19:34:26 Ah, very good. 19:34:35 yes yes, that worked 19:34:50 interesting 19:35:12 -!- saccade [~saccade@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:35:13 thanks! onto the next challenge 19:35:14 I don't know when `read-html-as-xml' will return a list with more than one element in it. 19:35:56 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@cpc2-sgyl9-0-0-cust659.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:13 yeah, it seems like there is some kind of mental mismatch going on with it 19:36:21 edlinde [~edlinde@cpc2-sgyl9-0-0-cust659.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 19:36:30 karme [~user@2a01:4f8:100:51c1::4] has joined #scheme 19:36:55 (define (read-html-as-xml port) (list (read-html))) 19:37:36 No, that's not right... 19:37:54 fff 19:37:58 yeah, i forgot about port 19:38:17 No, the return types are still completely different. 19:38:24 ah 19:38:59 rudybot: eval (read-html-as-xml (open-input-string "

foo

bar")) 19:38:59 chandler: ; Value: (#(struct:element #(struct:location 0 0 0) #(struct:location 0 0 3) p () (#(struct:pcdata #(struct:location 0 0 3) #(struct:location 0 0 6) "foo"))) #(struct:element #(struct:location 0 0 10) #(struct:location 0 0 13) b () (#(struct:pcdata #(struct:location 0 0 13) #(struct:location 0 0 16) "bar")))) 19:39:04 Yow. 19:39:15 That's a little more verbose than I expected. 19:39:54 offby1: What's up with that? 19:40:45 joelmccracken: anyway, that should explain it. You might want to check the length of the list, then. Or just assume that the news.yc folks have their act together. 19:42:17 ha sure. I'm happy with just making the script naive 19:44:07 pigoz [~pigoz@lilac.feralhosting.com] has joined #scheme 19:50:29 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 19:50:45 hello, I'm going through the SICP book (and having so much fun). I'm doing exercise 1.18 but I'm not sure if my algorithm has complexity log2(a). Here is the code http://paste.lisp.org/display/112658 19:53:30 it should be log2(a) since for every 2a I add one iteration and the odd part of the cond should have theta(1) complexity since it is executed only once if the first number is odd. 19:59:55 chiiph_ [~chiiph@dumbledore.com.ar] has joined #scheme 20:00:41 -!- chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:02:09 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-43.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:05:45 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-197.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:07:00 fowlduck [~fowlduck@2002:cc0f:6d26:0:fa1e:dfff:fed7:9dc1] has joined #scheme 20:07:46 -!- karme [~user@2a01:4f8:100:51c1::4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:03 rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:11 Hi! 20:10:46 Hi! 20:11:06 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@132.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:11:13 Hi! 20:12:15 -!- certainty [~closure@dslc-082-082-134-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:15:47 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:03 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 20:19:32 mastertogo [~togo@ip70-171-249-111.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 20:20:45 -!- joelmccracken [~joelmccra@pool-71-182-171-134.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:24:48 schmir [~schmir@p54A904AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:27:24 joelmccracken [~joelmccra@pool-72-95-149-22.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:07 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 20:31:12 drwho [~drwho@c-76-124-164-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:34:34 Hi! 20:35:14 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38:31 mmc [~michal@109.117.204.227] has joined #scheme 20:44:36 Is the FORMAT function in R5RS? 20:44:59 No. 20:46:40 MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:47:02 thanks 20:48:43 waltermai [~user@c-68-54-64-79.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:48:54 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A904AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:22 I guess a better question might be: I'm trying out SCSH and it uses FORMAT function, but can't seem to find its description in the manual. Where would I find the syntax? 20:53:02 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 20:54:50 Good grief! How in the name of Cthulhu can OpenSSL get so unremittingly baroque? I want to tell it to accept any certificate for which it can find a chain up to a root CA in a CAfile or a CApath (easy) *or* any of a list of predetermined acceptable certificates. The last part sounds easy, right? Well, NO! That's hard, apparently... 20:55:38 Riastradh, hard how? I notice that you don't mention that it's completely lacking, merely unjustly difficult. How did you achieve the feat? 20:56:14 I haven't yet. 20:56:21 Oh. 20:57:08 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-161-184.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:57:36 rirombo: slib has an implementation and documentation 20:57:38 Actually, I think it may be possible, post verification, to do exactly what I described without *too* much difficulty, but not quite what I meant to describe. 20:58:09 Ah? What goal are you trying to achieve, specifically? 20:58:14 wingo: Thanks :) 20:58:36 wingo: Is that the same dialect of FORMAT though? There are many. 20:59:31 gnomon, treat CAfile and CApath as a list of certificates or CAs' certificates to accept, not just a list of root CA certificates to accept. 20:59:33 chandler: good point; i don't have anything to say to that :) 21:00:25 rirombo, it's like Common Lisp's format, but with only ~A, ~S, ~D, ~%, ~&, and ~?. 21:00:41 (and no options in the format directives) 21:00:47 specbot: clhs format 21:00:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 21:01:02 #T takes the place of T; #F, of NIL; and ports, of streams. 21:01:45 (Oh, and there's ~~, of course.) 21:02:39 gnomon, my more general goal is to persuade w3m to accept certain certificates, or certification authorities, that I have verified personally, and no others. 21:02:50 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:03:40 Riastradh, hmm - interesting, interesting. 21:03:40 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-73.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:04:47 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-43.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:48 Web browsers such as Firefox, Safari, &c., can already do this, except that it takes some effort to tell them *not* to accept certificates from the 99.9% of certification authorities that I have not verified personally as being trustworthy. 21:05:14 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-43.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:05:26 Riastradh: Ah, excellent, that I'm familiar with :) 21:09:37 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-88-20.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 21:15:04 saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:18:42 b_jonas [~x@dsl4E5C0D2F.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #scheme 21:18:58 when was plt scheme renamed? http://www.racket-lang.org/new-name.html doesn't say 21:19:08 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 21:20:52 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:22:25 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:44 About three or four months ago, I think, b_jonas. 21:25:02 thanks 21:29:22 -!- rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:30:04 -!- b_jonas [~x@dsl4E5C0D2F.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:36:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #scheme 21:38:01 paperkettles [~chris@2001:5c0:1104:f400:226:bbff:fe0c:b57f] has joined #scheme 21:39:35 That's the first time I've seen b_jonas outside of #vectorprogramming. 21:39:58 Err, outside of #jsoftware, rather. 21:41:29 tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ad382d8.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 21:44:06 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DC5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:50:37 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 21:59:26 pigoz : it's buggy 21:59:42 -!- fowlduck [~fowlduck@2002:cc0f:6d26:0:fa1e:dfff:fed7:9dc1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:00 -!- wingo [~wingo@81.39.161.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:02:55 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5A4E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:11 (pigoz : in case you don't see the problem, try `(new* 14 5)') 22:12:00 -!- waltermai [~user@c-68-54-64-79.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:10 xissburg [~chatzilla@187.3.148.114] has joined #scheme 22:32:55 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:19 Riastradh: (Actually, it was about two months ago.) 22:33:59 OK, eli. I interpolated between the time I heard about the official change (about a month ago) and the time I first heard ruminations about the change (about six months ago). 22:34:26 Oh yes, the talks about the change were much earlier. 22:34:45 (For a pretty long time, actually.) 22:35:40 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:35:43 so I'm making a procedure which reads some lines of a file as strings and returns a list with each of these strings, but additionally I want to return the number of lines read and the length of the longest line 22:36:00 I'm trying to implement something elegant 22:36:07 without set! 22:36:14 but... 22:36:27 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@cpc2-sgyl9-0-0-cust659.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 22:36:55 xissburg pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112661 22:37:20 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:37:48 I mean....I also want to return h and w, perhaps in a (values lst w h) 22:38:21 xissburg: turn your loop inside out, it will make things easier. 22:38:56 That is -- use an accumulator for the list, and the correct values for the width and whatever will be more conveniently available. 22:39:52 xissburg, also, don't make LINE an argument to LOOP; it doesn't transmit information from one iteration of the loop to the next. Instead, write (let loop ((w 0) (h 0) ...) (let ((line (read-line in))) ...)). This clarifies the intent of LINE (it is used only within each iteration), and reduces code duplication. 22:40:29 (Yeah, missed that.) 22:41:14 eli: I can't get what you mean :( turn the loop inside out? And what is an accumulator? 22:41:26 Riastradh: interesting,thanks for the tip 22:41:54 xissburg: Instead of (cons foo (loop ...stuff..)), 22:42:14 use: (loop (cons foo result) ...stuff...), 22:42:23 and when you're done, reverse the result. 22:42:40 (and at that point, you'll have the other values too.) 22:43:00 IOW, it's very similar to the popular idea of what a "loop" is. 22:43:08 s/very/more/ 22:47:32 eli: result is an empty list I create before starting the loop like (let ((result '())) (let loop ((l result) . . . ? 22:49:08 xissburg: No. Here's a quick example: 22:50:34 (define (filter-even? l) (let loop ([l l] [r '()] [max 0]) (if (null? l) (values (reverse l) max) (loop (cdr l) (if (even? (car l)) (cons (car l) r) r) (if (> (car l) max) (car l) max))))) 22:50:49 (untested, bad name, weird notion of `max', etc.) 22:51:32 SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has joined #scheme 22:52:39 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has left #scheme 22:55:46 eli: I see, interesting technique. But isn't the (reverse) quite expensive? 22:56:19 xissburg: No, it's O(list length). 22:56:20 No more expensive than the original loop. The algorithm's order of growth is no different whether you reverse at the end or not. 22:56:49 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:50 It also means keeping two copies ofthe list, but that's almost always cheap too. 22:57:21 And possibly cheaper than (cons foo (loop ...)) which can hold onto stack frames instead of just cons cells. 22:57:45 well, performance is not a concern to me but, I'm just saying :) 22:58:25 gnomon, here's what I ended up using; it seems to work: 22:58:25 So JFYI, it's a very common idiom... 22:59:14 ok 22:59:25 I'll try to implement it in my code now 22:59:41 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:01:33 IJP annotated #112661 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112661#1 23:01:46 xissburg: That's how I would do it ;) 23:02:14 gnomon, at least, it seems to work for the reduced case, not for the general case that I really wanted. 23:02:57 IJP: lol, I can't understand one piece of your code, way too advanced to me :O 23:04:54 xissburg: uses srfis 1,8 and 42. nothing too hard about unzip and recieve, but the comprehensions syntax takes a bit of getting used to 23:05:43 IJP: after looking a bit at it I quite understand it :p 23:06:01 SRFI 42? Why does anyone still use SRFI 42 when foof-loop and nested-foof-loop is available? 23:06:33 Riastradh, because I'm used to it? 23:07:33 -!- cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 23:07:43 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-42-82-255-122-94.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 23:08:36 -!- saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:09:04 Well, OK, you have an excuse...for now! Anyway, here it is in foof-loop (barring typos), after which I'll stop my plugging of foof-loop: (loop ((for line (in-port p read-line)) (for n (up-from 0)) (for max-length (maximizing (string-length line))) (for contents (listing line))) => (values n max-length contents)) 23:10:00 wow 23:10:07 (That 23:10:14 (That's one line if you stretch your terminal wide enough, of course!) 23:10:53 ((If that would break its CRT, though, even if the casing would be OK, don't try it; not worth the trouble.)) 23:11:18 I won't, I prefer a more humble solution by now :) 23:12:52 Oh, I suppose I ought to give the URI: 23:14:16 xissburg annotated #112661 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112661#2 23:14:36 So I got that working now, thanks guys :) 23:14:50 -!- tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ad382d8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:14:55 Riastradh: It is a nice solution, guess I'll give foof-loop a try 23:25:18 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:42 tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ada15da.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 23:26:46 -!- tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ada15da.bb.sky.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:27:02 tommylommykins [~tommylomm@5ada15da.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 23:28:17 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 23:28:32 in scheme the arguments to a procedure are passed by copy or what? 23:30:07 Arguments are passed by identity, not by copy: if you pass an object as an argument, you and the recipient see the same object. 23:30:44 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:31:45 if I change the value of an argument inside the function it is not changed outside 23:31:50 metasyntax` [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has joined #scheme 23:32:05 except for lists as I could notice 23:32:29 If you alter the object itself, the caller and the callee will both see the change reflected. If you SET! a variable inside the callee, the caller won't notice, because it doesn't know anything about the variable. 23:33:47 Whenever you see (SET! X ...), think of transforming the code so that inside the lambda where the variable is bound, its body is wrapped in (LET ((X (LIST X))) ...), all references to X are replaced by (CAR X), and each (SET! X ...) is replaced by (SET-CAR! X ...). 23:35:14 hm interesting 23:36:15 hmmm? 23:40:42 rirombo [~rirombo@h113.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #scheme 23:44:24 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:44:28 hmmm 23:44:32 so if I do (define my-list '(1 2 3 4)) (define my-tail (cdr my-list)) 23:44:36 then.. 23:44:44 vector-set! changes the outside vector 23:44:52 (eq? my-list my-tail) => #f 23:45:01 but eqv? => #t ? 23:45:08 aargh 23:45:36 Really? That's incredibly surprising. 23:45:36 (eq? '(2 3 4) my-tail) => #f ? 23:46:41 I don't think you're quite explaining what you're doing. 23:46:41 my-tail and '(2 3 4) are not the same thing in memory? 23:46:57 You can't assume that constants are coalesced, so no. 23:47:54 oh 23:48:19 my question boils down to (eq? '(2 3 4) '(2 3 4)) => #f ? 23:48:36 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.22] has joined #scheme 23:49:12 but (define my-list '(2 3 4) '(2 3 4)) (eq? my-list my-list) => #t 23:49:51 that's right 23:50:26 in the latter case, you are referring to the same list in memory so it should be #t 23:50:30 (eq? '(2 3 4) '(2 3 4)) may yield either true or false: the implementation may make multiple copies of the list, or it may coalesce the copies. But if you read the value of a variable twice, without SET!ing it in the mean time, you will get a common value each time. 23:52:05 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:52:22 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-39-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:53:00 hmm 23:58:28 hmm, in scheme the only time you would write a function of no arguments is when the return value of that function is mutable data? 23:58:55 ie. you want to control when it's value is got, because it might otherwise change if you got it's value 'too early'? 23:59:01 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-67-193.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:59:03 *its