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I'm going back to the blag to read that too. 03:33:45 -!- olgagirl [~olgagirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 03:35:34 I suppose I ought to add that I think CALL-WITH-INPUT-FILE should use the twonkie idiom. 03:36:00 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:43 Anything more restrictive is prohibited by the R5RS, too, if I recall correctly. 03:37:55 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:11 No, correction: even the twonkie idiom is prohibited by the R5RS. 03:39:56 The point that DYNAMIC-WIND post-procedures shouldn't side-effect things is a compelling one. 03:40:06 So basically, the only correct definition is: (define (call-with-input-file pathname procedure) (let ((port (open-input-file pathname))) (register-finalizer port close-input-port) (procedure port] 03:40:24 Shouldn't side-effect things? 03:40:38 In the latest (relevant) blag entry. 03:42:14 Latest? You mean the entry dated 2006-05-01? No, that's a somewhat older one, and it has a mistake. 03:42:51 "Latest" was a brain fart. 03:42:56 `Oldest'? 03:43:19 So you now repudiate "That is, permanent actions, such as closing a port, 03:43:19 that one would put in a protection form of an UNWIND-PROTECT, are 03:43:19 entirely inappropriate in a DYNAMIC-WIND after thunk"? 03:43:36 `Entirely inappropriate' was too strong. 03:44:02 Such permanent actions make things compose poorly. Sometimes this is OK. 03:44:18 *jcowan* nods. 03:44:44 sunnyps [~sunny@150.snat-111-91-106.hns.net.in] has joined #scheme 03:47:18 Example: reading a pass phrase or secret key into a buffer and doing something with it known not to involve normal non-local exits. If control exits that extent, the buffer must be scrubbed. 03:47:22 clochette [~clochette@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 03:47:37 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:47:52 -!- clochette [~clochette@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 03:47:57 This doesn't compose well, but neither do crypto algorithms. 03:51:26 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.150.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:39 Oops. What I said earlier about C-W-I-F is false. On normal return, the port is closed, so (procedure port) should be replaced by (begin0 (procedure port) (close-input-port port)). 03:53:47 *jcowan* nods. 03:54:21 And naturally, the registration of a finalization procedure should be done by OPEN-INPUT-PORT anyway. 03:59:22 I hope that http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/ExceptionHandlingCowan represents what you and I discussed. Can you take a look? It's nice and short. 04:04:46 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 04:06:14 Hmm... I have a number of issues with it, but it is late tonight. My opinions of how it should be designed aside, I think the way you have set it up does not admit a straightforward implementation, and I ought to forward you the message I sent to Alaric Snell-Pym the other week. 04:09:02 cybergirl [~cybergirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 04:10:53 -!- cybergirl [~cybergirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 04:11:50 olgagirl [~olgagirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #scheme 04:13:13 -!- olgagirl [~olgagirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 04:14:03 -!- MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:19:22 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:34:00 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.201] has joined #scheme 04:39:46 masm [~masm@bl15-128-156.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 04:47:35 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:58:10 JoelMcCracken 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jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:11:58 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:12:17 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:13:12 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:13:19 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 16:18:27 -!- karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:35 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:30 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:35 mije [5641b192@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.65.177.146] has joined #scheme 16:25:39 hi again 16:28:36 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 16:29:25 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:06 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:31:46 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 16:34:22 -!- mije [5641b192@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.65.177.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:35:17 I say, halloo 16:35:25 Don't you know 16:40:33 luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has joined #scheme 17:04:33 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-133-197.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please] 17:08:21 schmir [~schmir@p54A91359.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:12:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:17:08 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91359.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:19 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:30:47 kar8nga [~kar8nga@78.104.81.107] has joined #scheme 17:31:20 -!- luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:44 -!- 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[~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 19:17:04 this guy advocates trailing parens: http://gregslepak.posterous.com/on-lisps-readability 19:17:34 does anyone understand why people persist in debating the "problem" of paretheses? 19:17:41 i never even notice them; bizarre. 19:18:56 -!- xwl [~user@125.34.174.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:08 "Inside of what form (function/macro) is the println on the highlighted line located? ... I don't know about you, but it takes me a while to figure that out." 19:19:27 "Whereas in other languages I can usually rely on the indentation of code to understand its structure, with most Lisp formatting I often end up having to rely on the editor, like a crutch, to figure it out." 19:20:33 without bothering to count the parens, I'm guessing the with-open 19:20:47 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@78.104.81.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:51 did I win? 19:21:17 What the hell editor is he using? AFIK, all editors indent Lisp just as with any other language. 19:21:25 *AFAIK 19:22:04 It's either with-open or let. 19:22:08 Ppjet6 [~ppjet@137.117.111.219.dy.bbexcite.jp] has joined #scheme 19:22:41 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:15 "Let's have a look at that same block of code, this time formatted differently: ... Now try the question again, in what function or macro is the highlighted line located in?" 19:23:17 No. 19:23:26 Erm... 19:23:31 "Was it easier to answer this time?" No. 19:24:44 -!- Ppjet6 [~ppjet@137.117.111.219.dy.bbexcite.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 19:26:02 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:30 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 19:27:41 oh its the let, it's the two space indentation that got me. Although, it wasn't any easier to read with trailing parens 19:37:34 I've been thinking, wouldn't it have been better to add in an extra newline that convert all his code to that trailing paren style. Easier and just as readable 19:37:41 *than 19:38:49 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 19:40:16 "Nothing says "Get out of my sight" like piling up, or "stacking" parenthesis." 19:40:37 19:40:38 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/36emgdz 19:42:58 I bet he'd use uppercase identifiers if the editor didn't provide syntax highlight. 19:45:21 Then complain about the unreadability of lowercase identifiers. 19:49:55 aidalgol: if you have 13 closing parens, then its pretty safe to say "You're doing it wrong" 19:53:16 sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:55:49 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:56:32 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-235-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:07:30 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@70-36-245-104.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:31 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 20:14:09 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-30-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:16 -!- mmc [~michal@93-39-35-202.ip74.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:17:12 IJP_: I'm not speaking from experience, but I'd say not necessarily. 20:20:46 aidalgol: of course, that's why I handwaved a little, but I would probably give the function a second look over 20:26:28 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@187.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:30:08 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:31:15 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:32:52 mmc [~michal@93-39-46-191.ip74.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 20:40:28 -!- sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:46:32 -!- Nils^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has left #scheme 20:46:54 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:53:24 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-51.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:44 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-51.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:00:48 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:19:03 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.201] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:59 MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:26:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:46:56 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:49:34 klutometis: riastradh's parser is parscheme (http://mumble.net/~campbell/darcs/parscheme/) 21:49:36 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 21:50:32 schmir [~schmir@p54A90462.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:53:39 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:58:00 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:59:19 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:03:11 rotty: is it possible to build sbank without spe? 22:03:12 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:03 IJP_: yes, dorodango does this, for example 22:04:44 what's sbank? 22:05:39 duncanm: http://live.gnome.org/sbank 22:09:14 malcolmci [~malcolmci@203.171.96.17.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #scheme 22:09:53 -!- saccade [~saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:11:29 rotty: so are you now living in a R6RS world? ;-) 22:11:35 rotty: is there a tarball for dorodango, or should I just use the git repo? 22:18:10 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:20:40 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:31:53 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@66.37.58.254] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:35:13 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90462.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:29 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 22:44:03 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-35-82-250-193-91.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 22:45:42 nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has joined #scheme 22:46:30 sepult- [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:48:29 hey 22:50:35 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:53:23 alaricsp [~alaric@mukhadvaram.gurukuli.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:58:30 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 23:04:33 -!- sepult- is now known as sepult2 23:05:41 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 23:06:02 -!- sepult2 [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:07:26 sepult2 [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:08:23 -!- alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:54 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-183-17.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:12:07 -!- sepult2 [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:12:24 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 23:14:20 sepult- [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:14:49 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:17:18 clojay [~clojay@75-119-224-175.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:17:38 -!- sepult- [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:18:58 -!- Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:20:58 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-111-147.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:23:05 sepult- [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:24:28 -!- sepult- [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:40 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:26:00 alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:38 buggarage [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:29:02 -!- sepult is now known as Guest15083 23:29:26 -!- buggarage is now known as sepult` 23:31:47 -!- Guest15083 is now known as sepult- 23:31:59 -!- sepult- is now known as buggarage 23:35:52 -!- sepult` is now known as buggarage` 23:36:33 -!- buggarage [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:37:53 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:39:01 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:25 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-128-156.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:45 -!- nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:58 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:45:21 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:47:05 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:52:43 -!- buggarage` [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:53:36 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:54:15 buggarage [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:55:17 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.159] has joined #scheme 23:57:29 -!- sepult is now known as buggarage` 23:57:59 -!- buggarage [~user@xdsl-87-78-37-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit]